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Episode 101: George Washington and boxing
Published 13th September, 2024
Corry Will, Luke Cutforth and Jordan Harrod face questions about animated ants, badminton brilliance and peculiar products.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Quinn, Ari, Daniel Edgardo, Tams, Tom, Randy Bruder. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Why might an illustrator find it useful to see marching ants?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
As you can see from the satellite picture, we're tracking a slow-moving front of dense peculiarity headed our way. Expect erratic gusts of the utterly preposterous, with patches of disorientation forming sporadically throughout. The low will be 52, and as for the high... it's here now: hi, to our guests.
We start with, from the Sci Guys podcast, and with his head in his hands at that joke, Luke Cutforth.
Luke:
Hello! (laughs)
Tom:
The last time we were on, I did send a couple of fairly sassy shots, both at Luke and Corry, just because apparently that's the mood y'all get me in here. It's just, I saw a joke at your expense, and I went for it, which is unusual.
So I'm going to apologise for that, but also say that this might well happen again, this show.
Luke:
I'm fine with it, Tom.
Corry:
(laughs)
Luke:
You let all your sass out. You've broken free from that schedule, and now you're feeling sassy, and I'm here for it.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
Tell us about the show. What have you got coming up?
Luke:
On Sci Guys... what have we got coming up, Corry?
Corry:
We've got some comedy science episodes from loads of weird topics: some mental health stuff, some gay stuff, some... other stuff, too.
Could you tell I haven't planned out that far ahead yet?
Luke:
(snickers)
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Tom:
Well, also preempting his own introduction there, the other half of the Sci Guys podcast, Corry Will!
Luke:
Hey!
Corry:
Hello! Honestly, I wanted to say, Tom, I really like your new haircut. I think that is the reason that you're so emboldened to be sassy.
Tom:
(laughs)
Corry:
I think it's the confidence! And it looks good on you! You know? The sass. (laughs)
Tom:
Well, thank you very much, yeah.
Since you did Luke's introduction, Luke, would you do Corry's introduction, please?
Luke:
Yeah, so I'm Corry. I'm currently editing...
Corry:
(cracks up)
Luke:
Sci Guys all the time and doing all of *3/Sci Guys because Luke's on paternity leave. And I hate that guy. So there we go.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Corry:
Woof. And I'm Luke, and I'm just looking at a baby. That's— Oh, never mind.
SFX:
(Luke and Tom giggle)
Corry:
You can cut that.
Tom:
Rounding out the slightly disastrous trio (laughs) we had last time, we have, PhD in medical engineering student, AI expert, person who has just far too much going on, Jordan Harrod, welcome back.
How are you doing after the last one of these recordings which went somewhat sideways a couple of times?
Jordan:
I'm excited for this one to also go sideways.
Luke:
(snickers)
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
I had not thought about doing gay stuff on my channel this month, but it is Pride Month. So that will likely change. It'll be bisexual stuff. It'll be fun.
Tom:
Good luck to all of you with both this show and your bisexual stuff.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry giggle)
Jordan:
Thank you?
Luke:
Just in general.
Corry:
You're moving from AI to BI.
Luke:
Ahh.
Corry:
You're just going down the alphabet.
Jordan:
Heyyy.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh)
Luke:
Eventually you'll be a detective inspector.
Corry:
(laughs uproariously)
Jordan:
(laughs heartily)
Tom:
You couldn't think of anything for CI either, could you? I was really trying!
Luke:
I couldn't think of anything for CI. Central intelligence?
Corry:
We got about 22 more of these before we get into the show, Tom.
Tom:
The thing is, we've now done so many gags that everyone's forgotten that I did the start of this like a weather forecaster. So my next bit of the intro's not gonna make any sense at all.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry giggle)
Jordan:
Welp.
Tom:
Whatever the weather, a bit of lateral thinking will provide you with an umbrella to shelter you from any brainstorm. Often by turning inside out at the first sign of any trouble and ending in the bin. So, turn your collar up, and let's run for the shelter of question one.
This question has been sent in by Tom. Thank you very much.
In March 2023, Marcus Rindshøj of Denmark played in the Polish Open badminton tournament. He did something that turned an unfavourable situation into a clear advantage. Two months later, it was banned. What was it?
I'll give you that one more time.
In March 2023, Marcus Rindshøj of Denmark played in the Polish Open badminton tournament. He did something that turned an unfavourable situation into a clear advantage. Two months later, it was banned. What was it?
Luke:
So this has gotta be the Fosbury flop of badminton, basically... is what we're talking about here.
Corry:
Haha, I understand this reference.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
For those who do not understand that reference, Luke, do you wanna...
Luke:
So the Fosbury flop is a style of high jump where... Basically before the Fosbury flop, everyone was doing one type of high jump. And then Fosbury came along, and he did his flop.
Tom:
Dick Fosbury.
Luke:
Dick Fosbury, thank you. He did his flop.
And basically it's the thing that you think of now as high jumping, where you sort of run up, and then you sort of jump and then sort of flip your back over the top of the bar.
And before he did that, people were jumping significantly less high. And now you can jump much higher, with that flop.
Corry:
Are you telling me that there was a man named Dick who was known for flopping, and this is the first I've heard of this?
Luke:
Dick flop, yeah.
Tom:
(laughs)
Corry:
I am terribly disappointed in all of you for not telling me about this sooner. But badminton... All I know about badminton is that it's like tennis, but it's worse, and I hate it, and I don't enjoy it, and it's bad.
Tom:
(laughs)
Luke:
Whoa, rude!
Jordan:
How do you feel about pickleball?
Corry:
(laughs) Ridiculous sounding name that I assume only suburban dads get in at? Would that be an accurate estimation?
Luke:
No.
Corry:
I don't know about sports!
Luke:
It's a massive sport. (giggles)
Corry:
It's a massive ball, it's just giant.
Luke:
(snickers profusely)
Corry:
(laughs)
Luke:
It's tennis played with volleyballs. No, yeah, it's a new sport. Like I said, it's a fairly new, growing sport.
Tom:
It's like low-impact tennis, right? It's tennis that hasn't been optimised to all hell, so it just becomes a smashing serve game. It's a slightly slower pace.
Luke:
Mhm.
Jordan:
Yes.
Corry:
I should know this. So I once came second in a tennis tournament with people who were, you know... sort of a national level of competing whilst in school, yeah. It was by default. No one else played their games. I played one and lost.
SFX:
(Tom and Luke laugh)
Jordan:
Nice.
Corry:
But still! That's second place, you know? So I'll bring my expertise into this.
Luke:
So you came last, is what you're saying. You came last.
Corry:
(laughs) Look, I don't know. You hit the shuttlecock.
Tom:
You are kind of close with it being a Fosbury flop... event. This would have completely changed how the game of badminton was played, or at least one part of it, if it hadn't been banned.
Corry:
Oh, was this— This was recently, right?
Tom:
This was 2023.
Corry:
This actually really rings a bell. I feel like I remember hearing about this. But I don't remember anything more than that. So, I'm happy to have been a help here.
SFX:
(Tom and Luke snicker)
Luke:
So I'm thinking, basically, there's a few things that can go wrong in badminton, which... might then become an advantage.
So, could your racquet have deformed in some way? Could something have happened to the shuttlecock? Could something have happened to the net? And then that makes the shuttlecock either move faster or... easier for you to hit, so it's floating a little bit more slowly, those kinds of things? I'm thinking along those lines.
Tom:
When I say unfavourable situation, this was not something particular to that game. That's just a situation you can find yourself in, in badminton.
Luke:
Oh, right.
Tom:
Or in a lot of racquet games.
Corry:
Your racquet breaks one of the strings. And because they're under high tension, it launched the shuttlecock. I don't understand these games, honestly. I'm really grasping at straws here.
Luke:
And knocked out the opponent!
Corry:
(laughs heartily)
Jordan:
And that was fortunate.
Luke:
Okay, it's a situation you can find yourself in, in many racquet sports. So, so that sounds like you sort of let slip that it's specific to the racquet, as opposed to the net.
Tom:
More in how the gameplay works. It may not always be a disadvantage, but in badminton it is.
Luke:
Okay, so in badminton, I think you play to 21.
Corry:
That's blackjack.
Luke:
Okay. I think you play to 21 in badminton. Obviously there'll be different types of badminton.
(whispering) The way the scoring works... The umpire could not count.
Tom:
Talk me through what happens in a point. And is there some— Is there something in there that might mean you're not going to score at this point?
Luke:
Well, an extreme amount of wind. Either from you or from the earth.
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Luke:
Okay, so the point of badminton.
Okay, so one, you stand behind the line. One of you serves, like this usually, and skims over the net, and the other person hits it back. And you just do that until one of you doesn't hit it back, or it goes out. At what point— Oh, okay.
Tom:
There's something that can happen in tennis, which apparently you do know about, that can't happen in badminton there. At least... unless your opponent's terrible.
Luke:
Okay, so you can't overarm serve in badminton, but you can overarm serve in tennis.
Tom:
Which means there's something that can't happen at the start.
Corry:
Oh, you can't spike it at the start, can you?
Tom:
No, you can't.
Jordan:
Is it because the other sports do overhand? The reason why there's the difference?
Tom:
Yeah.
Jordan:
Is it... Can you put spin on a badminton thing?
Luke:
No.
Tom:
Yes, you can!
Luke:
Oh, what?
Tom:
And you've just nailed it. Absolutely right.
Jordan:
Okay, because that's— Yeah, that would be the only thing that you can...
Tom:
Yes, the unfavourable situation is that you are serving.
In badminton, you can't do an ace smash across the court. You've gotta... It's a shuttlecock. You can't do that.
Jordan:
Mhm.
Tom:
Marcus Rindshøj is believed to be one of the first professional players to try and spin the shuttlecock as he throws it up into the air. Which is a really, really skilled technique. And that means that the opponent – who is expecting a normal serve – suddenly gets a curving shuttlecock through the air, coming at them, and it is incredibly difficult to return.
So, Luke, at the start, you were right. It's a Fosbury flop type moment.
Luke:
Yeah. But it was banned.
Tom:
Well, the Badminton World Federation, May 2023, has put a temporary ban on the technique until they can research it. Because up until that point, no one had thought to do that professionally. No one had the skill to do that professionally.
So it is, like you said, a Fosbury flop moment. And Jordan, you nailed it. It is putting spin on the shuttlecock.
Luke:
Wow.
Corry:
Wow.
Jordan:
What does research into that look like?
Luke:
(cracks up)
Corry:
Just watching it. Just watching it happen a lot.
SFX:
(Tom and Jordan laugh)
Jordan:
Just doing it over and over again.
Corry:
And then you write it down, and then you watch some more.
Luke:
Well imagine you're trying to conduct your research, and nobody can do it. So you're like, how do we research?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
I feel like that happens in sport too often, wherein you're too good, and they say, "Well, you're the best, so let someone else have a try." You know? Because they did that with gymnastics, didn't they?
Jordan:
Well, I feel like a lot of the time when they do that, it's because you did something that if everyone else tries it, it's gonna kill them. There's a bunch of stuff in figure skating that you cannot do as a legal move. Because it's like, you're gonna die. Everyone else is gonna die trying this.
Tom:
Yeah, wasn't it a somersault, or possibly backwards somersault? Something like that was just ruled completely...
Jordan:
Yeah, there's a backflip equivalent that they were like, "No, you can't do this anymore." One person did it in competition, and everyone was like, "Cool, you get good scores, but we're not— No one else can do this."
Tom:
But that will cause death. Yeah.
Jordan:
Yeah.
Tom:
Luke, we will go over to you for the next question. Whenever you're ready.
Luke:
Okay, so this question has been sent in by Daniel Edgardo. So thank you very much for this. The question is:
In the instructions from his 1918 suite The Planets, Gustav Holst states that the female chorus is to be placed in an adjoining room. What effect does this permit, and how is it achieved?
I'll give you that again.
In the instructions for the 1918 suite The Planets, Gustav Holst states that the female chorus is to be placed in an adjoining room. What effect does this allow you to create, and how do you do it?
Jordan:
I fully assumed that this was going to be something sexist, like, "We don't want to be around girls when they're on their periods," blah, blah, blah.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jordan:
So I'm assuming it's not that, but I did just want to rule that out up front.
Corry:
That's normal, of course. Like obviously, right? Oh gosh. No, I'm joking. I'm joking.
Tom:
For the second show, with this crowd, I have just heard the sound of a bullet whiz past my ear.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh)
Tom:
And, just... I'm glad you guys made those jokes.
Luke:
Okay, so I'm gonna catch that bullet for you, Tom, and say, early doors, there is no significance in the choir members being female. It's not because they're women. It's not because they're on their period or whatever you just said, Jordan.
Tom:
(laughs)
Luke:
It's not significant that they're female.
Tom:
But if you do put all the choir members in a room for enough rehearsals, they do sync up. No, sorry.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
(grunts)
Jordan:
This is a myth, apparently.
Corry:
That's true. That's true, yeah.
Luke:
Specifically among choir members. Everybody else...
Tom:
And I knew when I said that, someone was going to pedant me on it. So thank you, Jordan.
Jordan:
Yep.
Tom:
That was the correct decision.
Jordan:
I mean, it's a myth that I also continue to fully believe.
Corry:
There we go, Jordan said it, so that's fine. (laughs) So, singing in a room, is it got something to do with resonance or other such sound-related words? Like if you put them in the room, you can make it sound... different? That was in the question.
Luke:
I will grant you that it does have something to do with sound-related words.
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Luke:
Yes. (snickers)
Jordan:
With sound-related words.
Corry:
Hmm, that really narrows it down, yeah.
Luke:
Yeah, it does, isn't it? Well, it's less than all the words.
Corry:
So, when you have sound travelling through objects like walls, different frequencies travel better than others. So I imagine if you hear s— Well, I say, I imagine when you hear something through a wall, it obviously sounds different. Not just quieter, but almost different in quality than when you hear it without the wall there.
So is that what's happening? They wanted to cut some of the... some of the frequencies to have a different... sort of more ethereal sound by making it sound like it's coming through a wall?
Tom:
Well, you'll get more bass, won't you? You'll get kind of the low tones through. But the high tones are more likely to get reflected?
Luke:
I'm just gonna put this out here, guys. You are all way too smart for this question.
SFX:
(Tom and Corry wheeze)
Luke:
This is much stupider than you're giving it credit for.
SFX:
(Corry and Luke laugh)
Jordan:
Okay, follow-up question. Follow-up question. Is there a door into the room?
Luke:
Thank you, Jordan! There's a door, yes! (giggles)
Jordan:
Okay.
Corry:
Oh, so they open the door and close the door.
Jordan:
They just slam the door shut to mute you.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Or something like stereo separation, where you've got—
Luke:
Tom!
Jordan:
(laughs heartily)
Luke:
I'm gonna interrupt you again and say you're too smart for this question.
Corry:
(laughs heartily)
Luke:
Please be more stupid!
Jordan:
Do they slam the door shut to mute them?
Luke:
They didn't slam the door shut, no. But they do close the door.
Jordan:
Do they close the door shut to fade them out?
Luke:
They close the door shut to fade them out!
Jordan:
Wow.
Luke:
So, yes, thank you, Jordan.
Jordan:
They couldn't just have them decrescendo? You can just sing quieter. You could just....
SFX:
(Corry and Tom cackle)
Luke:
Okay, so I've got— I actually have— There is something else on this, Jordan, which is even funnier than the door. So the answer is yes.
In the Planets suite, the piece "Neptune the Mystic" ends with the female choir repeating a loop of unresolved chords, which gives a sort of mystical feeling.
The composer's notes say: "The Chorus is to be placed in an adjoining room, the door of which is to be left open until the last bar of the piece, when it is to be slowly and silently closed. The chorus, the door, and [anyone else] must be screened from the audience."
If an adjoining door is not available, Holst suggests that the choir slowly turn away from the audience or stuff a handkerchief in their mouths.
Tom:
(cackles softly)
Jordan:
There. He's really committing to this.
Corry:
My lord, dude.
Jordan:
Committing to just not having them sing quieter.
Luke:
They're in a different room. The door is slowly closed to fade them out. And everybody involved in the last ten minutes of my life is way too smart.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Corry:
Maybe it's like film, you know. Maybe it doesn't sound like they're fading out. If they actually fade out, you need a door to make it sound like— You know, how you use a horse when you want a cow in a film? That's just on The Simpsons. Never mind.
SFX:
(Tom and Luke crack up) (Corry and Jordan laugh)
Corry:
But they don't use actual spit to be spit in a film. They'll use something else, you know? Maybe it's like that.
Tom:
Strong choice to go with spit there, Corry. I don't know why.
Luke:
What?
Corry:
I was—
Luke:
Someone interrupt him.
Corry:
Please stop me.
Tom:
Thank you to Randy Bruder for sending this next question in.
A company makes a line of products. Most of them sell in the same quantities, except for three that sell 94%, 92%, and 58% as much as the others. Why?
I'll say that again.
A company makes a line of products. Most of them sell in the same quantities, except for three that sell 94%, 92%, and 58% as much as the others. Why?
Corry:
I was assuming it was 98% more, and then I was going to say—
No, never mind. (laughs) I was going to say shoes or something. But no, that doesn't make sense. Never mind.
Luke:
Thank you for your contribution, Corry.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
Yeah, yeah, look. I started talking before...
Tom:
I try and yes-and people on this podcast if I can, but...
Corry:
I started talking before I'd finished the thought in my head, which is something you should never do.
So let's just pretend I said nothing.
Jordan:
Wait, you said 94, 92, 58?
Tom:
94, 92, and 58, yes.
Luke:
Is it that... these products are only relevant at certain times of the year, for example?
So I know that there was something I heard about recently where... I think it's the fish option at McDonald's was invented because of some religious... sort of event where you couldn't eat meat. And so people ate fish instead. So maybe these are—
Tom:
That's Fridays in Catholicism.
Luke:
Oh, great, okay. So maybe there's a— it's a seasonal product, or it's in some way... related to that. And then that's roughly half of the year or... 25%-ish of the year.
Tom:
Luke, that is staggeringly close to the answer.
Luke:
Woo!
Tom:
It is absolutely a calendar thing.
Luke:
Okay, so those numbers are so irregular that I'm thinking maybe it's something to do with months. Because it's not a clean frac— it's like a clean fraction. It's not like a clean... Whereas months are not clean. 30, 31, etc. So... What's ninety—
Tom:
I mean, we're rounding there.
Luke:
Okay, okay, yeah.
Tom:
We're rounding.
Luke:
So I'm just wondering whether there's 94— What's 94% of 365? What's 92% of 365? And what's 58% of 365? And would that tell us something interesting?
Corry:
I don't want to do any maths, so...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
You have basically all the elements required to solve this, Luke. You just haven't put them together in the right order.
Luke:
Okay.
Corry:
Have we got the products? The sort of— We don't have the types of product, because that's the answer.
Tom:
It could be any sort of product here.
Corry:
Any sort of product.
Jordan:
Okay.
Tom:
There is something about this particular product... whatever line it is that would cause this to happen.
Corry:
Is it colour-related maybe? In that some colours are either more suited to different times of year or seasons, or are just preferred by people because of some... underlying psychology based on the time of year.
Tom:
No, you're moving away from it here. Luke's basically got it. It is mathematical, and it is about the calendar.
Corry:
Oh... Oh! Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Hold on, wait.
Is this to do with... No, this won't be it. I was going to say something about... not digital displays, but... certain letters or something. Where would you sell letters... to do with a calendar? If you were maybe... you're maybe using a printing press.
But that's not the answer. So I'll stop talking.
Tom:
It's not letters... but it's that kind of personalisation stuff.
Luke:
It's like diaries.
Tom:
Yeah, the exact example I have here is sort of numerology birthday cards or something like that.
Jordan:
(whispering) Okay...
Tom:
But there's something— You've not worked out why here. You're right, it's personalised about dates.
Corry:
Because more people are born... on certain times of the year. It's not equally distributed, is it? I don't know. (laughs)
Jordan:
I would imagine not.
Tom:
More people are born on... certain days than others. But there's something you've not quite twigged.
Corry:
Oh, oh my god. Hold on. Oh, wait, no, no. I was—
Tom:
(laughs) You've gotta stop doing that!
Corry:
(laughs embarrassedly)
Jordan:
(snickers) Because my thought was leap day, but that doesn't work.
Luke:
No, yeah, that's where I was going as well.
Tom:
Again, you're dancing around the right thing here.
Corry:
I was thinking about how... with, when it comes to months... you've got, sort of '1', '2', and '3' would be used more often.
Sorry, when it comes to days of the month, '1', '2', and '3' would be used more often than any other numbers because they show up... just a little bit more... than '4', '5', '6', '7', '8', and '9'. Because there are 30— up to 30 days, 31 days in a month.
Tom:
What numbers would show up less then?
Corry:
Oh, oh my god! 29, 30, and 31 ...would be less.
Tom:
Yes.
Corry:
Because all of the months have 28, but not all of them have more.
Luke:
Very good.
Corry:
Is that it?
Tom:
Exactly right.
Jordan:
Oh, okay.
Tom:
The specific example that our question writer sent in was some fancy numerology birthday cards that have secrets about your birth date and things like that.
They are sold in the day number.
Luke:
Right.
Tom:
So...
Luke:
That's the part I was getting stuck on. I was like, what's the product?
Tom:
1 to 28 is pretty much even. 29 starts to dip down a little bit. 30 starts to dip down a lot more. 31, that is about 58% of the others, because there are simply fewer 31s in the calendar.
Luke:
Very cool.
Jordan:
Yeah, we were overthinking that a lot.
SFX:
(Jordan and Corry laugh heartily)
Tom:
Full-on overthinking this episode. It's amazing.
Corry:
I can see the comments right now raging at us for not getting this.
Tom:
Jordan, over to you for the next question.
Jordan:
What is the very specific connection between George Washington greeting guests at receptions and a boxing match?
I'll repeat the question.
What is the very specific connection between George Washington greeting guests at receptions and a boxing match?
Corry:
He didn't wear a top doing it.
Luke:
(giggles)
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh heartily)
Luke:
He had really badass entry music.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
He wore massive gloves so he didn't have to even feel their hands.
Luke:
Yes!
Corry:
(laughs)
Luke:
Germaphobe. (giggles)
Corry:
We've gone from overthinking to underthinking. Let's do this.
Tom:
He had ring girls wandering around just holding up how many guests he'd currently met.
Jordan:
Oh my god.
Luke:
Jordan, is this a specific boxing match, or boxing matches in the abstract?
Jordan:
In the abstract.
Luke:
Okay.
Tom:
Okay, no, I'm sorry. We're gonna roll with this for a while. Because the idea of George Washington just entering wearing a large gown and trunks...
Corry:
(giggles)
Tom:
Oh, oh no. Hold on, hold on. Hold on, hold on, hold on.
I've said "hold on" seven times there, I think, or something like it.
Jordan:
That's also not the answer.
Corry:
Is it "hold on" eight times, maybe?
Tom:
(chuckles)
SFX:
(Corry and Jordan laugh)
Luke:
Was George Washington a YouTuber pivoting into a new career as a boxing star?
Jordan:
Yes.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
Wait, is that what Tom's doing? Is this just— (giggles)
Tom:
(laughs) Oh yeah, abs— No, I've talked to two or three people in the last few months who've done YouTuber boxing matches, because I know a couple of them. And they're all like, "No, not doing that again."
SFX:
(Corry and Luke laugh)
Tom:
Definitely not risking traumatic brain injury for a stunt. They're all really glad they did it – at least the ones who won are, but...
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
No, absolutely not. I still think that they missed a trick by not doing professional wrestling instead.
Corry:
Oh, 100%, yeah.
Tom:
Because the physicality's still there, the skill's still there, the s— You can tell stories however you want.
And I really want to see Logan Paul take an elbow off the turnbuckle by Michael from Vsauce.
Corry:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom:
Who doesn't want to see that?
Luke:
We should launch our own side thing where it's just super camp, super scripted. (guffaws)
Corry:
But specifically the sort of more education focused YouTubers. You know, the bookish ones.
Luke:
(cackles)
Jordan:
Oh my god.
Tom:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Corry:
(giggles)
Jordan:
Within educational creators, I feel like there have been multiple conversations about whether there should be an Edutube chess boxing tournament.
Luke:
Brilliant, yeah.
Corry:
Oh, yeah.
Jordan:
So it could be chess wrestling.
Tom:
Yeah, can we just do chess? Or, trivia, or something that doesn't involve the risk of serious injury? Just ego injury instead sounds better.
Corry:
That's the most Tom Scott thing you said this entire episode.
SFX:
(Corry and Luke giggle)
Tom:
I mean, I have actually, for a video, I took a body slam in a wrestling ring in a small indie promotion. I learned to do it. It hurts a lot! There's nothing— You just have to get used to it. It sucks!
Jordan:
Maybe you just pair up with someone, and one person does the chess, and the other person does the boxing.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
I was gonna say that at the start of a wrestling match, you have an announcer saying who's coming into the ring.
Luke:
Here's George Washington!
Corry:
Just like in Hamilton, right?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Did George Washington have his guests announced? That was a thing that used to happen in fancy dinner parties, you'd have someone announce who was entering the room. So my thought was maybe, that they both have people announcing who is entering the room.
Jordan:
No.
Tom:
Ah!
Luke:
Was there a panel of judges judging the handshakes?
Tom:
(laughs) Oh!
Jordan:
No.
Luke:
(giggles)
Tom:
It's a 9.2. 8.6 from the East German judge.
Luke:
(laughs uproariously) Did they run really fast on a treadmill and drink no water for several days beforehand?
Jordan:
Also, no.
Luke:
Okay.
Corry:
Okay, I have a question. Is this George Washington, the founding father, or is this a different George Washington? Like George Washington Carver, the peanut butter dude.
Jordan:
It's not the peanut butter dude. No, it is... It is specifically the George Washington, the founding father.
Luke:
Okay.
Corry:
Okay.
Luke:
But nice lateral thinking, Corry.
Tom:
He wore weighted gloves to make his handshake much more devastating.
Corry:
Oh, that would be it though, wouldn't it?
Jordan:
No.
Luke:
What about, is it like he had a fake hand? Like you have a boxing glove.
Corry:
Like boxers have a fake hand.
Luke:
They have— Well, it's somewhat of a fake hand.
Corry:
You know, when they pull out their fake hand.
SFX:
(Corry and Luke laugh)
Luke:
Like he didn't want to touch all those people.
Jordan:
No.
Luke:
Yeah, okay, no.
Jordan:
No, so it's— It does relate to... I guess I would say the... spectators and guests and how they sit in relation to each other.
Corry:
Oh, so they're sat in a ring around a square, right? That's how they— Is that how they do it in boxing?
Luke:
Yeah, something like that.
Corry:
They sit in a ring, and then the ring is actually not a ring, it's square?
Luke:
Yes.
Corry:
So... (laughs)
Luke:
So they're sort of sat in a donut shape around. So there's some kind of stage in the centre where George Washington is meeting people on a raised platform, and people are observing it.
Jordan:
I'm going to say that's close enough.
Luke:
Okay.
Jordan:
So the answer is that circles of people explain the geometric phrases of the 'Oval Office' and the boxing 'ring'.
But the reason why I think that's close enough is because the reason why Taft – when he remodeled the White House – created the Oval Office was because back in the days when George Washington would greet guests, the guests would stand in a circle around him during the reception so that everyone had an equal view of him.
Corry:
Oh.
Tom:
...Oh!
Corry:
Like a panopticon, but with George Washing-con.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
I'm trying to portmanteau George Washington panopticon, and it's Georgeopticon. It doesn't quite work.
Corry:
(laughs heartily)
Tom:
It's close.
Corry:
Yeah, it's not the best one, but there's something there.
Luke:
So they specifically mandated that upon meeting George Washington, you had to be sat – or stood, sorry – in a circle. It's not circle time at school. You had to be stood in a circle.
SFX:
(Corry and Tom crack up)
Jordan:
Yes, they called it circle time. No.
Luke:
Circle time with George Washington! So that everyone could see the sort of handshaking ceremony equally.
Jordan:
So I think he specifically required that people did that with him. I don't know that it was Oval Office— Well, there wasn't an Oval Office then, but it was not a presidential mandate. It was just like, you get there, and he's like, "No, this is the thing that you do." (giggles)
Luke:
(softly) Oh, wow.
Corry:
But if it was an oval office, and if it's not a circular oval, if it's more of a sort of stretched ellipsis, then not everyone would be... hm?
Luke:
So right.
Corry:
Well, there you go, George. George Washington, you have, you know, one week to respond. (laughs)
Luke:
(stifles giggling)
Jordan:
In ancient times, people would gather in a circle to watch a fistfight between two people bearing a grudge. This would happen either naturally or because a circle had been drawn on the ground first. This rough circle of spectators gave rise to the concept of a ring. The ring kept its name, even when rules for a square boxing arena were formalized in 1838.
Luke:
I love that you said in ancient times, as if that wasn't something that happened in my secondary school, twice a week.
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Luke:
We gathered in a ring to watch two people fight who have— who'd bear a grudge. (laughs)
Tom:
Thank you to an anonymous listener for sending in this question.
Why are extra precautions taken when disassembling the tail section of a Boeing 747 built in the 1970s for scrap?
One more time.
Why are extra precautions taken when disassembling the tail section of a Boeing 747 built in the 1970s for scrap?
Luke:
Well, the 1970s. Now, we built a lot of schools back then that had problematic ceilings.
Corry:
(blurts laugh)
Luke:
With materials that didn't have very good stuff in them that sort of give you cancer.
Corry:
(giggles profusely)
Luke:
And it's a whole thing.
Tom:
W—Why are you afraid of saying the word asbestos? Is this like—
Corry:
Luke, have you considered a career in politics?
Luke:
I don't think there's going to be asbestos. I'm trying to do a general point, which is, I don't think there's asbestos in the tailwings of Boeing 747s. And so...
SFX:
(Tom and Corry crack up)
Tom:
I just— I just like the idea that if you say the name, it manifests. If Luke says "asbestos" three times, then he has to get someone in to check his ceiling.
Luke:
Into a mirror. Don't say it three times into a mirror.
Tom:
Yeah.
Luke:
You get bad lungs. So my point being that...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
Seven years bad lungs.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry sob)
Corry:
God!
Luke:
Throughout time, we have used materials that have certain properties that we like, and then later on gone, "Oh, wait, this is really, really bad for us." And so I'm wondering if that's a good place to jump off. If, you know, these are old Boeing 747s, we're dismantling them for scrap, so we might expose some kind of hazardous material we used back then.
And that might be the answer, and I win.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry crack up)
Tom:
Here's the good news, Luke.
Yeah, you absolutely win. That is how the show works.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Again!
Luke:
You sassy, sassy boy!
Corry:
(cackles)
Luke:
Who hurt you?
Corry:
We did, clearly.
Tom:
Apparently. You've basically gone through all the notes I have. I can't give you anything else on this question, Luke, because you've got everything apart from... what the material is and why it might have been used.
Luke:
Ooh.
Corry:
Well, if it's anything like using lead pipes, it's because they give that water a sweet, sweet taste. No, that's not true, but lead does taste very—
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Corry:
Lead does taste very sweet, but you would not want to eat it. What kind of material would be used in a plane?
Luke:
Yeah, so you obviously got—
Corry:
For wagging?
Luke:
a rudder on the back of—
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh)
Luke:
For displaying happiness.
Corry:
Uh-huh.
Tom:
Well, that is, yeah. The plane absolutely wags its rudder when it's happy, that...
Corry:
That is how planes fly. I know this, okay?
Luke:
So it's got—
Corry:
Okay.
Luke:
Yeah, it's got a rudder on it. It's... I suppose in that case, it's then got some kind of motor in there. So maybe it's for cold resistance. The material is there to prevent frost?
Corry:
Oh god, is it hydrogen? Did they use hydrogen? Is that it? I feel like a lot of times, it's hydrogen, and it goes boom. Is it something that goes boom?
Tom:
It's not something that goes boom. Why do you think hydrogen?
Corry:
Hindenburg?
Luke:
Oh.
Corry:
(laughs)
Tom:
Yes? But why were they using hydrogen? Or why would you think they might have used that?
Luke:
Hydraulics.
Tom:
Hydraulics is water.
Corry:
Yeah, I know.
Jordan:
I was about to say.
Tom:
Now that is...
SFX:
(Corry and Jordan laugh)
Luke:
Hydrogen... hydraulics? Hydrogen-draulics.
Tom:
Obvious question to ask. Why did the Hindenburg and why did airships back then use hydrogen?
Corry:
Because it's very... not dense. It's not as dense as air, and so if you put— If you encase hydrogen in something, it'll probably make that thing good at floating in air.
Tom:
Yes.
Corry:
It's also very flammable though, so don't...
Tom:
In this case, Corry, you could not be further away from the answer. But that is in itself quite a big clue.
Corry:
Is it something really dense then? So, dense metals.
Tom:
Yeah.
Corry:
There's tungsten. There's lead.
Tom:
Actually, they use tungsten now.
Corry:
Really?
Tom:
That is, these are counterweights in the elevators and the upper rudder. Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's really dense stuff. These days, they use tungsten.
Corry:
So the material would be then, would have been lead then, right?
Luke:
No.
Jordan:
No.
Tom:
You don't really need special precautions for that.
Luke:
Okay.
Corry:
Okay, let's picture—
Luke:
Caesium.
Corry:
—a periodic table in our heads. Caesium, Luke, no!
Luke:
(cackles)
Corry:
(laughs) That goes boom! All of the ones on that end go boom!
SFX:
(Corry and Luke giggle)
Jordan:
Hm.
Luke:
You even use it, you fly through a cloud. Fly through a cloud. No more plane.
Tom:
(chuckles)
SFX:
(laughter trails off)
Corry:
Never has something that looks so much like cheese been so volatile and dangerous.
Jordan:
Oh my god.
Corry:
Honestly.
Tom:
I mean, you're not wrong. I've seen pictures and videos of caesium. It does look like cheese!
Corry:
It looks like cheese. I just, look, my last thing I want to do on this Earth, when I'm old and on my deathbed, I just want to eat some caesium.
Luke:
Om nom nom.
Corry:
My head goes bang.
Tom:
Oh no!
Corry:
But it'll be— I'll go out the way I want, you know? (giggles)
Luke:
Iconic deaths.
Corry:
So we're looking for— We're looking for a dense and dangerous metal then.
Luke:
Radioactive metal.
Jordan:
Yeah.
Corry:
Oh, plutonium then. Or another one of the radioactive ones.
Tom:
Yeah.
Corry:
(giggles)
Jordan:
(laughs heartily)
Corry:
(laughs harder)
Tom:
I mean, I'm tempted to give you it here, but there's a specific thing that's known for being really heavy. It's used by the US military in tank rounds, bullets, things like that.
Luke:
Oh.
Corry:
Oh.
Jordan:
And it's not plutonium? Did we already say plutonium?
Tom:
It's not plutonium...
Jordan:
Okay.
Tom:
But you're only a couple of planets away.
Corry:
Oh, uranium.
Luke:
Uranium. (laughs)
Corry:
Oh, uranium, right?
Luke:
I thought that was too obvious.
Corry:
Oh, thank god.
Tom:
Yeah, deplete—
Corry:
(laughs heartily)
Tom:
Yeah, yeah, until 1981, Boeing used depleted uranium counterweights in the elevators and upper rudder of 747s.
They were painted to reduce the risk, but in the event that a Boeing 747 crashed, then they had to send special operations out to recover them.
Luke:
And also, if they crashed, and if they crashed and didn't die, and there were survivors, then you've just got to all stay away from the tail. That's...
Tom:
Yes. Yes, you do.
Luke:
This is not— Wow!
Corry:
I find that when I'm making a plane, I also want it to double as a dirty bomb.
SFX:
(others laugh softly)
Corry:
So, yeah, I can understand why they did that in the '70s, you know? Jeez, they were just making everything as dangerous as possible back then, weren't they? They had no cares whatsoever.
Luke:
I mean, have you paid attention to the news? They're still making everything as dangerous as possible, Corry.
Jordan:
I was about to say.
Luke:
(laughs)
Corry:
Oh, yeah, look, but I have TikTok now. And I can peruse that...
Luke:
(snickers)
Corry:
to forget about it.
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Tom:
Corry, over to you for the next question.
Corry:
Okay, so this question has been sent in by both Quinn from Wisconsin and Ari.
So, two sick dolphins were being treated at a Chinese aquarium after swallowing plastic fragments. Why did vets specifically ask herdsman Bao Xishun to remove the plastic – something he did with little difficulty?
I'll give that to you again.
Two sick dolphins were being treated at a Chinese aquarium after swallowing plastic fragments. Why did vets specifically ask herdsman Bao Xishun to remove the plastic – something he did with little difficulty?
Tom:
Okay, to be clear... I don't want a punchline to this if anyone can think of one. But "two sick dolphins were being treated at a Chinese aquarium" sounds like a setup for a racist joke.
Corry:
(laughs)
Luke:
Oh, I think it sounds like they're not actually ill. They're just awesome dolphins. Two sick dolphins.
Corry:
They're s—
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
If we're going to be talking about the word 'sick' in relation to dolphins and countries that bad things happen in, that would be America. Based on a lady called Mary and her affair with a dolphin.
Luke:
Well, this is where I'm going with it.
Jordan:
Oh my god!
Luke:
This is what I'm wondering.
Tom:
Oh, no.
Luke:
Is that you're saying that they've asked, what is the herdsman? What is a herdsman?
Corry:
So 'herdsman' in this sense, just take away from it that it's not a veterinary professional. I guess a herdsman is someone who has a herd of... animals or... other things. (cackles)
Luke:
But what I'm wondering...
Jordan:
(snickers)
Luke:
Okay, so...
Corry:
(giggles profusely)
Luke:
What I'm wondering is...
Jordan:
(cackles)
Luke:
If you have your herd of dolphins, and your herd of dolphins really trust you... Was this plastic lodged somewhere very personal to the dolphins, and this is—
Corry:
(blurts laugh)
Luke:
This dolphin herdsman is trusted by the dolphins. And so he just goes and gets that plastic out real easy, and the vet wouldn't be able to do it, because the dolphins don't trust the vet.
Corry:
(wheezes, giggles) So...
Luke:
I'm thinking laterally.
Corry:
I would say—
Tom:
Please say no. Please say no!
Corry:
I would say no to all of that, thank god!
Luke:
(giggles)
Corry:
The plastic was... It was very much lodged in them. The question did say, swallowing plastic fragments. So... you know.
Luke:
I mean, it would end up— it could end up somewhere very— Anyway—!
Corry:
Can someone save Luke from this, please?
Jordan:
(snickers)
Corry:
(laughs)
Tom:
Was the herdsman very short? Is he the only person that could... fit into the dolphin's mouth to reach far enough?
Jordan:
Was he a baby?
Luke:
(snickers) Baby herdsman.
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Jordan:
Dolphins are... not that big.
Luke:
I don't think you can own a herd of dolphins when you're a baby.
Tom:
We have specifically trained this baby to grab plastic out of...
SFX:
(guessers giggling)
Corry:
You know what, Tom, I'll say you are almost 100% right.
There is literally one word in what you said that is wrong that is, it's as wrong as you could be.
Jordan:
Tall.
Luke:
Ahh.
Corry:
Tall, yes, so...
Tom:
Oh!
SFX:
(Tom and Corry chuckle)
Jordan:
(laughs heartily)
Corry:
So does someone—
Tom:
That's obvious in hindsight! I was thinking that someone was being grabbed by the legs and was small and short enough to be put up. But no, it's, he's just got really long arms. Obviously!
Jordan:
I was like, so they're thin and long, 'cause you can't... This isn't like, you get swallowed by the whale situation, I don't think.
Tom:
I was thinking it was a swallowed by the whale situation!
Corry:
(giggles profusely)
Luke:
Yeah, I was thinking those cartoons where you shrink yourself really down, small, into a little submarine, and you go inside something.
Corry:
(wheezes)
Luke:
That's what—
Corry:
This is absolutely the overthinking episode. You 100% got it there, Tom, yeah. And Jordan as well.
Tom:
I just fluffed the important word in the answer. Thank you for for coming in with that, Jordan.
Corry:
Yeah, so you're spot on.
So he was the tallest man in the world at the time. He was 7 foot and 9 inches tall, which is obviously quite tall – it's taller than me. And he had very long arms to go with his long body. And he just wore sort of towels around his arm and reached down into the dolphins' stomachs, grabbed the plastic out, and that was it.
No special equipment or anything. They literally just contacted him because he had long arms. He had no experience with dolphins. He had no other qualifications other than being the tallest man in the world.
Luke:
If you're a vet, and you're presented with this problem... I don't think it's a normal response to go, "There's only one thing for this job. We need the tallest man in the world."
SFX:
(Jordan and Corry laugh)
Luke:
Why couldn't it just be a di— Why? Why go straight— What about the person with the longest arms in the world?
Tom:
Well, maybe the vet had already tried. and like, "Oh, my arms are not long enough." Because, what else are you going to use?
Corry:
Yeah.
Tom:
A really expensive endoscope with a gripper?
Jordan:
Yeah, I was thinking something like that, actually.
Corry:
If I'm honest though, I think we forget that it's actually often a lot easier just to do things manually. Because if you have to go through a machine, one, that's expensive, and two, you know... it's just so many complexities, there's more mistakes that can be made. If you've just got a tall guy, get him to reach down there.
But my favourite image from all of this is the fact that clearly the tallest man in the world is just being called out to do odd jobs for random people based on his height.
Luke:
We need a TV show about this guy.
Corry:
Which is a TV show, right?
Jordan:
Yes.
SFX:
(Corry and Luke laugh)
Jordan:
Can that be a call-in reality show? You call-in with your problem?
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Tom:
And also, Producer David says that Corry, you're right, they tried vet instruments, but it didn't work. They actually just needed... They needed someone who could manipulate better than that.
Which brings us to the question I asked the audience at the start. Thank you to Tams for sending this in.
Why might an illustrator find it useful to see marching ants?
I have a suspicion that, from three people here, who work in the creative industries, you might already know the answer to this.
Luke, you have your hand up?
Luke:
I know, go on, Corry. Corry knows this too. You go ahead.
Corry:
No, Luke, you're the director. You go ahead, you say it.
Luke:
Okay. Marching ants are, in Photoshop, when you sort of select something, or you outline something. The sort of UI element that shows what you selected is called marching ants. It's basically little dots that sort of march round in a circle of what you've selected.
Jordan:
Oh, I didn't know that's what that was called.
Tom:
Yes, it is technically called the marquee. And that line that goes around your selection, those are the marching ants.
With that, thank you very much to all our players. What's going on in your world? What are you up to?
We'll start with the Sci Guys this time. Luke, tell us about the podcast. Where can people find it?
Luke:
Okay, well, Sci Guys is a show where we basically tell a different science story every week. I'm currently on paternity leave from it, but Corry is absolutely nailing it in my absence. And you can find it on any podcast platform and also on YouTube.
Just search for "Sci Guys podcast".
Tom:
And, Corry, what specifically—
No, you know how sometimes you say something, and then you don't want to? I was going to say, Corry, what specifically are you nailing at the moment? But that has a different meaning, so...
Corry:
Ohoho!
Luke:
Woo!
Tom:
Corry, what specifically are you talking about on the show at the moment?
Corry:
We are talking about so many things. We're talking about gay things and mental health things. Anything you might be interested in. We're talking about it. So, definitely listen to our podcast. Please, please, please, please. (giggles)
Tom:
And Jordan, where can people find you?
Jordan:
You can Google my name. And you'll find me on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, talking about how AI impacts your life, and also why Sam Altman is a very interesting person at the moment.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own idea for a question. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralcast.
With that, thank you very much to Jordan Harrod.
Jordan:
Thanks for having me.
Tom:
Corry Will.
Corry:
Thank you very much.
Tom:
Luke Cutforth.
Luke:
Thank you so much, Tom.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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