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Episode 107: The DVD of anger
Published 25th October, 2024
Lucy Rogers, Molly Edwards and Trace Dominguez face questions about religious roads, secret services and transport thingamyjigs.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Peter Scandrett, Nate, Michael. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Every Street in Manchester has a church building in it. Why is this not unusual? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. You know those quizzes where they ask you about the chemical symbol for oxygen, or the year the lightbulb was invented? Well, on this show, we're more likely to ask you for the chemical symbol for a lightbulb, or when oxygen was invented. Hoping to get their facts right today, first, we have engineer and author, and perhaps, most known to this particular audience as a judge on Robot Wars. Please welcome Dr. Lucy Rogers.
Lucy:
Thank you very much.
Tom:
Welcome to the show. This is your first time playing. I had a look at your website to try and work out how to introduce you, and there are so many things you're working on right now. What's the big project at the minute?
Lucy:
Currently, I'm writing a book. A science book for adults, popular science. But I'm making it sort of a travel book, and then just sliding the science in, so that people who won't normally pick up a science book will hopefully read it as well.
Tom:
This is your first time on the show, and we've got two returning players. Are you... How do you feel (laughs) about the questions that are not as straightforward as usual?
Lucy:
Oh, definitely nervous, definitely.
Tom:
We have two returning players joining you today. First of all, from Science IRL, we have plant biologist and science communicator, Dr. Molly Edwards, welcome!
Molly:
Hi Tom, great to be here.
Tom:
How are you feeling about coming back to the show after a little while away? How was the last time?
Molly:
I'm ready. It's been almost a year, I think. I'm ready.
Tom:
It has, yes.
Molly:
I'm so excited.
Tom:
What have you been working on in that year?
Molly:
I've spent the year visiting really cool plant biology labs and making videos about all the cool plant science that's going on in the country. So, I'm excited to share that.
Tom:
What kind of places have you been to? Because obviously I have not been doing as much travel over the last year as I used to.
SFX:
(both chuckle)
Tom:
Whereabouts have you seen?
Molly:
Oh my gosh, I've been to Arizona, to upstate New York, visiting scientists who are engineering plants to be more resilient to climate change. So like, creating plants that can turn red when they're stressed, and give farmers a heads up that they need some help, that kind of thing.
Tom:
Also returning to the show, our third player today. From PBS Star Gazers, and from his own podcast, That's Absurd Please Elaborate, Trace Dominguez, welcome back to the show.
Trace:
Hello, I'm very excited to be back.
Tom:
Well, I had a lovely time on That's Absurd Please Elaborate. We talked for slightly too long, I think, about what would happen in the Mighty Ducks scene?
Trace:
Yeah, yeah, you very graciously answered a question about hockey. Which, my co-host plays hockey, so he was very excited about that, and decided that we should just talk about whether or not Goldberg the goalie from The Mighty Ducks would survive.
Tom:
If hit by a hockey puck so fast that it blasted someone back into the net, what would actually happen?
Trace:
Yeah.
Tom:
I mean, I use the words 'splash damage' a lot.
Trace:
Yeah.
Tom:
It felt like a good episode. I don't know how it was from your side.
Trace:
Oh, I think it went very well for everybody except this hypothetical goalie.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
Well, good luck to you and all three of our players. It's time to sharpen your pencils as well as your wits, as we move on to question one. How is soy sauce the opposite of tomato sauce? I'll give you that again. How is soy sauce the opposite of tomato sauce?
Molly:
Botanically...?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Excellent start. Love it.
Trace:
Strong lead. (laughs)
Molly:
Botanically, soy sauce comes from a legume, and tomato sauce comes from a solanaceous vegetable. But they're not like, I wouldn't call them opposites botanically.
Tom:
You said solanaceous vegetable and not fruit there.
Molly:
Oh, it is a fruit. Well, yeah, the whole— Okay, the whole— Yes, it is a fruit, okay.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Molly:
Yes.
Tom:
Yeah, but I don't know what solanaceous means!
Molly:
Oh, yeah. (laughs)
Tom:
That sounds like the name for deadly nightshade?
Molly:
It is.
Lucy:
I think it's like salacious, isn't it?
SFX:
(Tom and Molly laugh)
Trace:
Yeah.
Tom:
No, a salacious vegetable is something very different. We're not going to go there.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Lucy:
Not there? Okay.
Trace:
No, I think the zucchini-cucumber family.
SFX:
(Tom and Molly giggle)
Tom:
It's one of those amusingly shaped carrots from newsreels 40, 50 years ago. Solanaceaes is nightshade family?
Molly:
Yeah, Solanaceaes is nightshades. But yeah, they're both flowering plants, so I wouldn't call them opposites, botanically.
Lucy:
From an engineering perspective, soy sauce always seems to be very liquidy, and tomato ketchup is more thixotropic. So, it's the sort of...
Tom:
Ooh.
Molly:
Ooh.
Lucy:
Doesn't dribble until it dribbles.
Trace:
Yeah.
Lucy:
There's a force in it, involved.
Tom:
Yeah, it changes consistency based on, is it pressure or shear?
Trace:
Yeah. It's a non-Newtonian, right? The ketchup is non-Newtonian.
Lucy:
Yeah.
Trace:
Which is cool.
Tom:
Someone's gonna have to explain that, and it shouldn't be me.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Trace:
So non-Newtonian fluids are... The classic example is oobleck, right? It's a mixture of cornstarch and water. If you pour it out of a jar, it will pour. But if you slap it, it will become hard. Don't ask me to explain why it does that, 'cause I don't have notes on it.
Lucy:
Don't thump cornflour.
Tom:
Yes, I once did the walking on custard demonstration for a group, which was...
Lucy:
Ah.
Tom:
I mean, it's not real custard. It's cornflour and water. The trouble is, it was outdoors, and we had to do it several times over three and four days. And by day two, it was not looking like custard. It just had stuff floating in it. It was not pleasant.
Trace:
Yeech.
SFX:
(guests snickering)
Trace:
So, culinarily, we've gone through plants, we've gone through engineering. Culinarily, soy is more in the salty kind of area, and tomato can be any number of things, like a tomato sauce. You have to add sugar to it, to cut the acidity. It's more acidity, more acidic, but... (muttering) I dunno... about... Again, opposites. I mean, if it were sweet and salty, you could argue they're opposites.
Molly:
Is umami an acid? Is that a taste sensation opposite?
Trace:
I mean, it is one of the sensations, right? So...
Tom:
So, we've talked botanically. We've talked, I can't remember, what adjective did you use, Lucy?
Lucy:
Oh, engineering-ly.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Lucy:
I'm an author, you know(!)
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
And we've talked about culinary. It is, unfortunately, none of those. It is more of an etymological thing.
Molly:
Oooh.
Trace:
Oooh. Oh?
Lucy:
Soy comes from soya? Tomato comes from tomatoes.
Tom:
Mm.
Lucy:
No, that's all I've got.
Trace:
(laughs)
Lucy:
One's a bean?
Tom:
Well, you're actually surprisingly close there, Lucy. We are talking about where the words come from.
Trace:
Hmm.
Tom:
But what is soy named after?
Lucy:
Mr. Soy!
Trace:
Yeah.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Trace:
The inventor of soy sauce. Famously.
Tom:
Perhaps the obvious question would be, what is tomato sauce named after? This is a really simple—
Lucy:
The sauce of tomatoes.
Tom:
Yes, yeah.
Trace:
(guffaws)
Tom:
Yeah, that's the easy part.
SFX:
(Molly and Trace laugh)
Lucy:
So mashed up soy, soya beans don't make soy sauce? Is that what we're saying? I don't know how to make soy sauce.
Molly:
You ferment the soybeans, right? Yeah.
Tom:
Mhm.
Trace:
Mhm, mhm. Whereas tomatoes, or tomato ketchup is smushed up tomatoes, vinegar, spices, sugar.
Tom:
Yeah. If tomato sauce is named after tomatoes... what's the opposite of that ...when I'm talking about soy sauce?
Molly:
Not being named after soy?
Tom:
Keep thinking along those lines.
Trace:
Not being named after beans... not being... you're not...
Lucy:
So, soy sauce is named after Mr. Soy. And not after the bean.
SFX:
(Trace and Molly stifle giggling)
Tom:
Tomato sauce is named after tomatoes.
Trace:
Yeah.
Lucy:
Soy beans... Soy sauce is not named after fermented...
Tom:
Soy sauce is not named after soy beans.
Lucy:
Okay.
Trace:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
Tom:
This is actually through English through Dutch. Have a think about what might have arrived in the West first.
Lucy:
Soy! Soy is named after soy sauce.
Tom:
Soy is named after soy sauce.
SFX:
(guests gasping)
Tom:
Lucy, you're absolutely right.
Trace:
What?
Tom:
Right? I had to double and triple check this when this came in.
Trace:
What was it named before that?!
Tom:
So, I've checked the etymology here. This is in dictionaries. This is also from the SoyInfo Center, which is apparently a reliable source for this, no pun intended.
SFX:
(Molly and Lucy laugh flatly)
Tom:
(laughs) I genuinely didn't intend that.
SFX:
(guests snickering)
Tom:
The Chinese for soy sauce... Now, my pronunciation guide here has a load of tone markers on it. I'm going to get this wrong, but it's jiàng yóu, or something like that. That became soya, or soja in Dutch. That evolved into shōyu, or just soy in Japanese. So it's this complicated etymological thing, where tomato sauce is obviously named after tomato. The soybean, soy, is named after soy sauce, because that's the way the etymology worked.
Trace:
Cool.
Molly:
Wow.
Tom:
Yep.
Trace:
That's fun.
Lucy:
Now we know.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. I don't know the question. I definitely don't know the answer. We will start today with Trace.
Trace:
Alright. This question has been sent by Nate. In 2014, vending machines bearing the slogan 'Enhance your swim' were stationed at gyms and pools all over Auckland. They sold transparent water bottles for 99.95 New Zealand dollars, about 60 US dollars. And despite the price, they sold out very quickly. Why would that be? In 2014, vending machines bearing the slogan 'Enhance your swim' were stationed at gyms and pools all over Auckland. They sold transparent water bottles for 99.95 New Zealand dollars, 60 US dollars. Despite that price, they sold out quickly. Why?
Lucy:
Was there something in the transparent bottles?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Trace:
Mm. There was something in the transparent bottles.
Tom:
Alright. So what on earth would enhance your swim? You said this was gyms and...
Trace:
Yeah, at gyms and pools.
Tom:
This isn't something... Because I remember filming way back in... It's not Auckland, it was near Rotorua. And they have just outdoor, thermal baths. I was like, maybe it's something for that. But no, it's just, it's literally just swimming pools and gyms.
Trace:
Yeah, swimming pools and gyms.
Tom:
Huh.
Molly:
Is the year relevant? Did something happen in 2014 where people would be more...
Tom:
Huh.
Molly:
eager to enhance their swim?
SFX:
(group giggling)
Trace:
I think the year is relevant, but more to center in on what... on what we're talking about specifically, not necessarily because something happened in that year, but to give you a sense of, I don't know. I guess this is sort of a hint to give you a sense of recency.
Molly:
Okay.
Trace:
2014. It's not that long ago.
Tom:
This isn't some weird herbal thing from the 1920s that promised to make you swim faster and better.
Trace:
Yeah, it's not filled with laudanum. It's something...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Trace:
Now that would be a workout.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Also, what are you paying $100 for?
Trace:
Yeah, 60 US dollars or about 100 New Zealand dollars. I don't know if that's a lot in New Zealand, but it seems, you know, $60 in 2014. It's not nothing, you know.
Lucy:
I remember when I was a teenager, there were bottles of perfume. Not that I ever really wanted bottles of perfume. And they were extortionately priced because they had bits of gold inside them. Now I'm not quite thinking how having a bit of gold in a water bottle...
SFX:
(group snickering)
Lucy:
might make it worth more, but...
Tom:
There's a few things like that. There's a liqueur that has gold in it. There's Goldschläger, and a couple of other things like that. Absolutely useless liqueur. It doesn't do— It doesn't taste of anything. It doesn't do anything to your body.
Lucy:
Does it pass right through?
Trace:
Yeah, just pass right through.
Tom:
Just passes right through. If you ever want to do a little experiment with that, you can buy sheets of ultra thin gold leaf for one or two dollars. And just, if you apply them to your tongue the right way, you get a gold-plated tongue until the next time you swallow. And then, you know, a couple days later, there might be a little bit of glitter left behind.
Trace:
Yeah, you're really making very expensive...
Tom:
Yeah.
Trace:
business to the toilet.
Molly:
Sounds like you know a lot about this, Tom.
SFX:
(Molly and Trace laugh)
Tom:
Honestly, 2014, that was one of the first videos I did for my channel, when I was just doing 60-90 seconds things, and I'm going to gold plate my tongue. (muffled) I can't talk now. This doesn't really work.
SFX:
(giggling)
Trace:
I want to mention... You asked if there's something in the water bottle. And I said yes, just to remind you. The people who were buying these thought that they were getting a good value for their money. So not only was... So they were buying this that was not cheap, and they were like, "Worth it."
Molly:
Worth it.
Tom:
This is a stupid idea.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
Was there a live fish in there, or something like that? It's one of those fairground things, that are now banned for good reason, where you just used to get a goldfish in a bag if you won a prize, and you're enhancing— You are releasing a goldfish into the swimming pool. I said it was a stupid idea.
Trace:
Well, again, there is something in it. It's not a living thing, but there is something in there.
Molly:
is it something to be consumed, or is it something, yeah, to release into the environment or...
Trace:
It isn't something to be consumed per se, but it is something that once you open the bottle, you could use. But no, it's not— You don't eat it or anything like that. It's not alive.
Tom:
It's very highly pressurised water, and if you release it at exactly the right time, it will shoot you down the pool.
SFX:
(Molly and Trace giggle)
Lucy:
Like a fire extinguisher.
Tom:
Yeah, yeah.
Trace:
Like your friends.
Lucy:
See, I'm thinking because it's... Auckland, no?
Tom:
Yeah.
Trace:
The kind of location matters less.
Lucy:
It matters less, does it? I was thinking suntan cream, but you wouldn't really put that in a... a drinking bottle.
Trace:
That would be...
Lucy:
(smacks chops)
Trace:
you know, interesting.
SFX:
(Molly and Lucy laugh)
Trace:
Yeah, the location is... It doesn't matter quite as much. This could have happened pretty much anywhere in... in cultures that would value the thing inside the bottle. Not every culture in the world would necessarily value that thing. Especially since it was at a gym or a pool. So try and keep in mind, what might be in this bottle?
Lucy:
The secret formula!
Tom:
(laughs)
Trace:
(chuckles) It was part of an advertising stunt as well. So the company that—
Tom:
It felt like an advertising stunt.
Molly:
Yeah.
Trace:
The company that put them there was like, "Ohh, this is a great idea."
Tom:
Oh! What if it's swimwear?
Trace:
Ooh.
Tom:
What if it's clothing or something like that? Because it's going to get wet anyway. So, if you're going to put it inside a drinking... Why would you put that inside a drinking glass instead of something bigger?
Trace:
There's nothing better than putting on a wet swimsuit.
Tom:
And then drinking out of the thing it came in. You know when those things are like, "Oh, I've got it, I've got it." I've not got it. I've not.
Trace:
You're actually on the right track, though.
Lucy:
It doesn't actually have to have water in. It's a drinking bottle, but it hasn't got—
Trace:
It did have water in it.
Lucy:
Ahe—oh.
Trace:
But there's nothing special. It's not flavored.
Lucy:
Goggles!
Trace:
Again, very close. There's nothing special about the water or the bottle. And remember, the slogan was, "Enhance your swim." So, they're already gonna be swimming. This could be a way to...
Lucy:
It's a jet propulsion pack.
Tom:
Yeah.
SFX:
(Trace and Molly laugh)
Lucy:
Or, no, it's a— I got it, I got it. It's an inflatable rubber duck that you can swim with as you're going down. I mean, it would enhance my swim every day.
Tom:
Yeah, it would. You're right.
Lucy:
Inflatable rubber duck, yeah.
Tom:
But you said... If it's a $100 rubber duck though, that's gotta be a good rubber duck.
Molly:
I don't know, those floaty pool things they're selling now are like, prices are going up, man.
Trace:
Yeah, they're expensive. The giant unicorns and stuff. Pizzas.
Molly:
Yeah, yeah.
Trace:
How might one enhance their swim? You're swimming, you're... What would make in, say... the early 20-teens... your swim somehow less boring?
Tom:
Is this an electronic thing?
Trace:
(gasps) Ohh? It is an electronic thing.
Lucy:
Ooh.
Trace:
It was an advertising campaign. Do you want to know the company?
Lucy:
Ooh, waterproof...
Tom:
Sony or something. Yeah, waterproof headphones, waterproof MP3 player, something like that?
Trace:
That's it! It was a waterproof headphone!
SFX:
(Molly and Lucy cheer)
Trace:
So, to show off their waterproof rating, Sony put headphones in water bottles in vending machines, so that you could see that they're already in the water.
Tom:
(laughs)
Trace:
And it boosted sales by 380%.
Lucy:
Wow.
Molly:
Wow.
Trace:
Which is, that's a lot.
Molly:
That is a lot. Well done.
Trace:
Good job, Sony.
Molly:
Yeah, I hope that PR person got a raise.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Somewhere in a PR company, somewhere in Auckland, there's an intern who is really annoyed that was their idea that got used.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Trace:
Maybe they accidentally dropped their headphones in a glass, and then they were like...
SFX:
(Trace and Molly gasp) (group laughing)
Tom:
Thank you to Michael for sending in this next question. In 2007, Melchior sat down to enjoy a DVD of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. Before the film began, he became furious. What made him so angry, and why was it so ironic? I'll say that again. In 2007, Melchior sat down to enjoy a DVD of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. Before the film began, he became furious. What made him so angry, and why was it so ironic?
Trace:
Who's Melchior?
Tom:
That, if I told you, would give you the entire clue to this question!
Trace:
Well, dang it! I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a tomato sauce problem. Me and Molly would be like, "Are we supposed to know the letter?"
Tom:
You'll have to excuse me. This is a Dutch name. Not that that's particularly relevant to the question. So I may be completely mangling that.
Trace:
Sure.
Lucy:
Mm.
Trace:
Mm.
Molly:
But that, okay, but the person— The specific person matters then.
Tom:
This is a real person.
Molly:
Okay.
Lucy:
Oh, it's a person. I was going for the dog angle there.
Tom:
Ooh?
Lucy:
Melchior was a dog.
Trace:
Really upset 'cause there's the thunder at the beginning. And the dog got scared.
Lucy:
It's so Cerberus or the three headed dog. (growls)
Trace:
Oh no.
Lucy:
"Dog in my living room!"
Trace:
Let's see. It's a Harry Potter DVD.
Tom:
Mhm.
Trace:
The Philosopher's Stone, as it's known in Britain. We call it The Sorcerer's Stone. But I assume in Dutch they would call it...
Tom:
I honestly don't know which.
Trace:
Yeah.
Molly:
And it's, he's mad and it's ironic.
Tom:
Yes.
Trace:
Interesting. Well, what would show up... when you put the DVD in?
Tom:
Mm.
Trace:
You know, you put it in. In the US, we get the FBI warning.
Tom:
You do get the FBI warning, Trace.
Lucy:
Oh.
Trace:
The kids are like, what's a DVD? "What are you putting in? I don't get it."
Lucy:
This has been certified for use for... age 12 and above, or some such.
Trace:
Yeah.
Lucy:
And do not pirate the copy.
Tom:
Do not pirate the copy.
Trace:
Yeah, you wouldn't steal a car.
Tom:
Ah. Trace.
Trace:
Melchior's a pirate. And he was mad because... He pirated it. So it's ironic, because he's a pirate.
Tom:
Not quite, but... you have actually identified not just what Melchior was looking at, but the specific public information film. It is the "You Wouldn't Steal a Car" film that Melchior was angry at.
Trace:
You wouldn't steal a car?
Tom:
Yes. So you've got the first part of the question. That's what made him so angry. Why was it ironic that he was angry at that film?
Lucy:
Because he'd just stolen it out of a car?
Tom:
He'd literally just stolen a car. No, unfortunately not.
Trace:
Did Melchior make that ad that they then stole from him and aired it anyway?
Tom:
That's very close. He didn't make the ad.
Lucy:
He made the car.
Trace:
It was his car?
Lucy:
It was his car, it was stolen.
Molly:
He looked at his driveway and it was gone.
Tom:
You wouldn't steal a car. But we would! Look outside!
Lucy:
So Melchior the pirate is mad that...
Tom:
Melchior the something.
Molly:
The something.
Tom:
He's not a pirate. And he didn't make the whole ad.
Trace:
Mm?
Tom:
What sort of things go into that ad? What can you remember about it?
Trace:
I remember it goes (mumbles)
Tom:
I'm sorry, it goes what?
Trace:
It's wobbling! It's wobbling around a lot!
Tom:
Yep.
Trace:
"You wouldn't steal a car!"
Tom:
Yep, what else is going on?
Trace:
You wouldn't steal... Let's see, what else wouldn't you steal? I can't remember. I just remember a car.
Tom:
There's one other really important element that goes into making something like that.
Trace:
I mean, somebody wrote the ad. Somebody wrote that phrase. Somebody... Obviously, if they directed it, they would've been involved.
Molly:
Someone edited it, someone...
Lucy:
Sound, music.
Tom:
Mm!
Trace:
Ooh.
Molly:
Ooh.
Trace:
Is Melchior... the musician?
Tom:
Yes.
Trace:
Who made the song that it played?
Tom:
Yes, and why is it ironic?
Trace:
Because they stole it and didn't license it!
Tom:
Yes.
Trace:
Ah! Oh, I'd be mad too.
Molly:
I'd be so mad. Yeah, Melchior, I'm mad for him. God.
Trace:
That explains why Melchior has like... old philosopher's name, but as a music— That makes sense.
Tom:
This is Melchior Rietveldt. He's a Dutch musician. He was asked to create a piece of music for a local film festival. And then, the next year, he puts in the DVD for Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, and the anti-piracy ad has used his music without permission.
Molly:
Wow.
Trace:
I mean...
Lucy:
Oof.
Trace:
Wow, magic.
Tom:
There were years of arguments and legal threats, and the royalty collection agency ended up paying him a six-figure sum in back pay and compensation. Lucy, over to you for the next question, please.
Lucy:
This question has been sent in by Anonymous. I know them. They're really quite prolific, aren't they? The question is: The Glasgow Subway is a simple underground railway in Scotland. While it was being refurbished in the 1970s, what two digit numbers were used for the bus replacement service that ran around the city instead? The Glasgow Subway is a simple underground railway in Scotland. While it was being refurbished in the 1970s, what two digit numbers were used for the bus replacement service that ran around the city instead?
Tom:
It's a 1970s British question, and I'm on this podcast with two folks from North America. Alright, here we go. Shouldn't matter.
Trace:
Faulty Towers! Are You Being Served? How many other British shows could I name? I watched them on Laserdisc.
Lucy:
The question is what two-digit numbers were used for the bus replacement services?
Tom:
Okay, things I know about the Glasgow Subway. It's a simple circular line.
Lucy:
Yep.
Tom:
It just doesn't have any branch lines. Doesn't have any complicated— It just goes clockwise or anti-clockwise.
Lucy:
Yep.
Tom:
And it's also orange. The branding has always been orange for it. And I think it's nicknamed the Clockwork Orange.
Molly:
Awh.
Lucy:
It is.
Tom:
Because it is a circle, and it is orange.
Molly:
Oh, so could the two digits be related to the clock? The face of the clock?
Trace:
Like a 12 and 21.
Tom:
So if it's two-digit numbers, I'm going to assume there's two of them. I'm going to assume there's one for clockwise, and one for anti-clockwise.
Lucy:
Exactly, Tom, yep.
Tom:
Because that's how the subway runs.
Trace:
Right, so it could be zero, one...
Tom:
Which is, and transit nerd coming in here, not a great way to run a subway. Because if one breaks down, the entire line clogs up behind it. You want some branches on that, but... If you've just got one line, you need two numbers.
Trace:
Yeah.
Tom:
Two-digit numbers.
Trace:
So like, zero-one, and... ten, and, you know. It could... It's got two distinct numbers. It makes me think, because we're asking as well, that it's some kind of... cutesy back-and-forth, you know? Growing up, the highways in my hometown, which I don't think were cutesy but was fun and confusing, were 96 and 69. And that made for a very... you're driving around town, and you're like, "Well, I gotta get off 96 and get on 69." And I never, to this day, I have no idea which one is which and where.
Tom:
Okay, so we've got a grand total of 100 possibilities here, if we go from 00 to 99. We could just sound them off, but that would be a very boring podcast.
Lucy:
I need your reasons.
Tom:
Yeah.
Trace:
Oh, yeah.
Molly:
For each one.
Trace:
Was there anything special going on in Glasgow in the 1970s, I ask, other than the refurbishment? Was there some number that we can tie between... And Clockwork Orange?
Lucy:
No, you were, I think, maybe a little closer earlier, Trace.
Trace:
Oh, okay. Some more cutesy.
Molly:
Cutesy.
Trace:
Kind of.
Molly:
Cutesy, demure.
Trace:
Yeah.
Tom:
Are there any numbers that can get reflected horizontally? So you have... I mean, it can't be like 33 and EE, or something like that.
Trace:
Right.
Tom:
But you can tell which way the bus is going just from the numbers? Are there numbers that sound like... clockwise and anticlockwise? Or are there numbers that sound like... round and this way and that way, or...
Trace:
Yeah, you know... Is it about how you write the number, because the 2 is, you start at the top and go around clockwise, and the 3, you start at the top and go anti-clockwise?
Lucy:
So you're heading along the right lines.
Tom:
Heyyy!
Lucy:
Two lines.
Trace:
Nice.
Lucy:
So the... What can be reflected?
Tom:
0, 1, and 8.
Lucy:
Okay, that's symmetrical.
Molly:
Oh, 6 and 9, if they're...
Lucy:
Yes.
Molly:
Okay.
Trace:
Oh, wait. Is it 96 and 69?
Lucy:
It's not, but you're close.
Trace:
Like my hometown?
Lucy:
It's not.
Tom:
66 and 99, then, to do the same thing? So you're just flipping them?
Lucy:
Yes, Tom. Well done, yep.
Molly:
Yes.
Lucy:
Which one's which?
Tom:
Oh? Which is which? Oh! No, you were right, Trace! When you were saying which way you write the numbers!
Trace:
Yeah. Nine goes, yeah, and six goes that way. Oh, that's great.
Lucy:
Exactly, well done!
Tom:
When you write a '6', you move your pen anti-clockwise. When you write a '9', you move your pen clockwise. So you can literally look at it and know which way it's going.
Trace:
I love that.
Lucy:
Indeed.
Trace:
That's the kind of design that makes my little sciencey heart go "Eeee!"
Lucy:
I think it's just the best. So when the Glasgow Subway was refurbished and they put a bus replacement service in instead, they use the anti-clockwise service. They called it the 66 because when you have a pen, you write it in the anti-clockwise way. And the clockwise service was 99.
Tom:
Next one's from me. Here we go. On planes and trains, you can often see antimacassars. What are they, and what was macassar? I'll say that again. On planes and trains, you can often see antimacassars. What are they, and what was macassar?
Trace:
Antimacassars.
Tom:
Okay, I was worried, because I got this question through, and I'd learned this in university because one nerd told me about it. Because it's in my head, I was like, they're all going to know this one. No, no one, okay, great.
Lucy:
Well, my grandparents had it, so, had them.
Tom:
Oh, so you know this one, Lucy?
Lucy:
I know this one.
Tom:
Alright. Then Molly and Trace, this one's over to you.
Trace:
Yeah, jeez. So my, the first thing I think of is... in the US, you see a lot of semi trucks, 18 wheelers, you know, lorries, I think, in the UK. And it's got a bar at the back... that drops below the trailer to car level height. It's called a Mansfield bar because someone crashed into the back of a semi truck, and her name was Mansfield, and she did not survive. And so they put the Mansfield bar. That's my first thought as to something like this, where it's a safety issue. They put this in so that something happened. So what would happen in both planes and trains?
Molly:
Hijacks? Was it something to prevent hija— Was there—
Trace:
Wow.
Molly:
Was there someone who... named... A famous hijacker named Macassar?
Tom:
It is specifically to stop that one guy! So I actually do have a fairly big hint to give at the start, but I think, Lucy's little note at the start there, that actually, her family had them as well...
Lucy:
Has them.
Tom:
is actually a surprisingly big hint. They would have been in your folks' house, I'm guessing?
Lucy:
Yep, my grandparents had them in their house.
Tom:
Yeah, so the first hint here would've been very similar to what Lucy said. They also would have been in Lucy's grandparents' house, and I think my folks' as well.
Molly:
Is it an air quality thing?
Tom:
It's a quality of life thing. Let's put it that way.
Trace:
Molly, I like air filter, or, you know, something like that. Obviously, quality of life means, you know... food, air, water.
Tom:
Oh, just comfort. Just comfort.
Trace:
Comfort.
Molly:
Temperature?
Tom:
It might be helpful to think about, what sort of things do you find both in planes and trains, and in a family home? There aren't many things that cross over there.
Molly:
Bathrooms? Chairs?
Tom:
Chairs.
Molly:
Chairs.
Trace:
You don't have seatbelts at home, unless you got a wild home.
Tom:
You don't—
Lucy:
What are you implying about my grandparents' place?
Tom:
You don't have seatbelts, but you're right that this is something that gets attached to the seats. They're still in planes and trains in some places.
Molly:
Is it the little foot bar that goes down, that lets you prop your feet up?
Tom:
It's not, but again, you're in the same kind of area. It's something that is added.
Trace:
Like a food tray.
Molly:
It's called anti, right?
Trace:
Yes.
Tom:
Yeah, it is trying to stop something.
Molly:
Oh, we're trying to stop something.
Trace:
Oh, is it... where you're... People don't like it when people recline their seats. Maybe it's a way to stop that.
Tom:
Oh, someone did sell those. It's a little 3D printer thing you can jam into an airplane seat, and it breaks the recline of the person in front. There was a big debate about that for a while. But no, this is something that dates back... honestly, about a century.
Molly:
Yeah.
Tom:
I think it's notable that Lucy said that it was in her grandparents' house. Probably not in current ones.
Trace:
Like a coat hanger, or... hat hanger. Things you don't wear anymore.
Tom:
Not a hat, but this is about fashion. Men's fashion specifically.
Trace:
Like some place to put your cane, you know?
Molly:
A pipe?
Trace:
Oh, ashtrays.
Tom:
That's, honestly, that's a better answer to the clue I was giving. It is unfortunately not the right one.
Trace:
Yeah, because they don't have those on.
Tom:
I mean, there are still some men that use this, but not many.
Trace:
Just think of a monocle.
Molly:
We need the menswear guy from Twitter here. He would know what this is right away.
Trace:
Yeah, I'm wearing a flamingo shirt. We know that I'm not gonna be the one.
Tom:
Think, think more about the top of the chair. You're actually pretty close with hat.
Trace:
Like a headrest, or like a...
Tom:
Mhm.
Molly:
Is it to prevent the brim of your fancy hat from bending?
Tom:
You'd have taken the hat off by now. But it's to prevent something.
Trace:
To mess up your hair and your collar and your...
Tom:
It is to do with hair.
Molly:
Like pomade or something like there is a pomade. Oh, is it to protect the back of the chair from all of the gunk on your head?
Tom:
Yes!
Trace:
Oh, that totally makes sense. And I've seen those on planes. Like the plastic, oh my gosh. Plastic, yeah.
Tom:
Yes.
Trace:
Over the, you see 'em on trains, the little, the paper.
Tom:
Yes, the antimacassar is the protective cloth at the top of a seat.
Trace:
Wow. Let your soul glow, you know? Just let your soul glow.
Tom:
Yeah, so, these days it is, oh, this is fresh and clean for the passenger. No one's been here. Originally, it was to protect the seat from getting dirty from the passenger. So, what was macassar?
Molly:
Was it a hair gel? Or a hair product?
Tom:
Yeah, it was hair oil. It was a hair oil that was popular with European men during the 19th and early 20th century, and it came from Makassar. It's now called Ujung Pandang, but Makassar as was in Indonesia. And the name came from there. Hair oil became known as macassar, and to this day, the little things that sit on the top of seats that are still in trains and planes and may still be in some grandparents' houses, those are called antimacassars. I'm a
Trace:
Dapper Dan man myself.
Tom:
Molly, over to you for the last big question of the show.
Molly:
Ooh, alright. This question has been sent in by Nate. On his day off, detective Min Jun paid 40,000 won to Si Woo. By chance, they exchanged a friendly wave across the street the following day. Soon after, Si Woo was arrested and fined. Why? On his day off, detective Min Jun paid 40,000 won to Si Woo. By chance, they exchanged a friendly wave across the street the following day. Soon after, Si Woo was arrested and fined. Why?
Tom:
Wow.
Trace:
I have a pretty good idea of what's going on.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Trace:
I'm gonna wait and see a couple of hints if it's in the right direction.
Tom:
Alright.
Lucy:
Was he being set up?
Tom:
(laughs)
Molly:
No, actually. This was all part of their normal...
Tom:
Okay.
Molly:
...stuff.
Tom:
'Cause I was assuming it was some criminal activity of some sort... and that the detective was paying off someone, but...
Molly:
No, the detective... was not paying someone off. He was just enjoying his day off.
Tom:
What would waving at someone give away? And you— Did you say the detective was arrested? Or Si Woo was arrested?
Molly:
Oh no, Si Woo was arrested. The detective, yeah, had paid Si Woo for a service. And the next day, they waved, and then Si Woo was arrested after that.
Lucy:
Was it a legal service?
Molly:
Yes.
Tom:
Oh, okay. That rules out several of my guesses.
Trace:
Yeah, that rules out what... I had thought maybe... I had thought maybe you had to pay to go see Si Woo in prison. And then when he waved at him on the street, he wasn't in prison.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Molly:
Surprise!
Trace:
Wait a minute!
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
This is 40,000 won. So this is Korea, I think.
Molly:
Yes.
Tom:
And that's about... I want to say about $100, I think, US, roughly? It's not a huge, huge amount of money. 40,000 sounds like a huge amount, but I think it's a lot of Korean won to the dollar and pound.
Lucy:
And the wave was a normal wave, not a...
Tom:
Not a giant wall of water sent towards...
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Molly:
He didn't wave with a weapon or anything, no. It was just a wave.
Trace:
A friendly lightsaber wave.
Molly:
(blurts laugh)
Lucy:
Yeah.
Tom:
Oh, thank you, Producer David. About $30 is what was paid here, so it's not much.
Trace:
Oh, so, yeah.
Tom:
Okay, hold on. Si Woo must not have been meant to know who the detective was. The fact that Si Woo waved and recognised the person who paid them... must have been a clue that something illegal was going on. Or something wrong was going on. It was meant to be anonymous.
Trace:
Like the detective was undercover?
Molly:
Mmm... You're... What you were saying just before that was more on track.
Tom:
Okay. Si Woo wasn't meant to know what the detective looked like. And the fact that the detective was recognised was a clue that something was wrong.
Molly:
Yeah, I think, so the wave... is what revealed... that Si Woo should be arrested. So, yeah, Tom, what you were saying was very much on the right track. There was something up with... Si Woo recognizing the detective.
Trace:
Yeah, that was— The service was legal, but perhaps he wasn't allowed to sell said service. Maybe Si Woo is the X-factor there. And then waving revealed a tattoo, or something, that said, "Oh, that's Si Woo, who did the service, it wasn't..."
Molly:
Trace, you're on the right track with Si Woo not supposed to be providing this service.
Tom:
So, was there a clue in the hand? Maybe the detective had only seen the hands of Si Woo, and that, "Oh, that's the person who should—"
Molly:
No, no, you're getting colder. I think, Tom, before when you said, "Oh, the won, that means it's Korea," it being in Korea is also relevant.
Tom:
Oh, okay.
Trace:
Interesting. So what kind of stuff would one be arrested for in Korea? Just in general.
SFX:
(scattered snickering)
Molly:
Let me get out my book of Korean laws.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Yeah.
Trace:
(muttering) No waving in public. Oh, well, that's it!
Molly:
Yeah, so, okay, so... this is only going to happen in Korea. This situation. And Si Woo regretted waving. He realized in that moment he had given himself away.
Tom:
Okay, what services might someone visit someone for? Okay, so what legal services might someone...
Molly:
Yes.
Lucy:
(chuckles)
Tom:
And for about $30. So it's not like this is someone visiting an accountant or something like that.
Molly:
No, and it was his day off. It was the detective's day off.
Trace:
Is it a family-friendly service?
Molly:
Yeah.
Trace:
Good.
Lucy:
Nail painting. Hip-hook.
Tom:
Massage.
Molly:
Mm?
Tom:
Massage?
Molly:
Mhm.
Tom:
Hang on, hang on, did... Did... Okay, this... I need to phrase this in a way that doesn't sound really dodgy.
Trace:
Yeah, yeah.
Tom:
Did the detective think he was getting... a massage from a woman? And Si Woo is a male name?
Molly:
(shakes head)
Tom:
No, okay.
Molly:
No.
Trace:
Yeah.
Molly:
No, so everything seemed fine during the massage. It was the wave the next day that tipped off the detective that Si Woo needed to be arrested.
Tom:
Did Si Woo have an injury or an illness or something wrong with their hand?
Molly:
Okay...
Lucy:
Ooh.
Tom:
They shouldn't have been performing massage because they were infectious?
Molly:
Yeah, you're on the right track with... with Si Woo having something about him that made it that he shouldn't be practising massage.
Tom:
Did Si Woo work with someone that made them... unqualified to give massage? Like they were...
Molly:
He is unqualified to give a massage— yeah, a massage, for sure.
Tom:
Oh, okay.
Molly:
Yes.
Tom:
Because he's working with... something! What disqualifies you from massage as a skill?
Molly:
In Korea, specifically.
Tom:
That washing a hand can't...
Lucy:
Is there something about working with animals?
Molly:
Mm-mm.
Trace:
Si Woo is a horse.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Molly:
Who knew how to wave.
Tom:
We never thought to ask if Si Woo was human.
SFX:
(Molly and Trace laugh)
Trace:
Right? That horse just waved at me. Arrest it!
Molly:
Arrest it! Arrest that horse.
SFX:
(both giggling)
Trace:
Huh.
Molly:
Yes, yeah. Because we've been focusing on... what impairment does Si Woo have that prevents him from massaging? But it's actually what can he do... that prevents him from massaging? And what might a wave mean that you can do that would get you caught?
Lucy:
Was he selling himself as a blind masseuse?
Tom:
Oh!
Trace:
(gasps)
Molly:
Yes, Lucy! (laughs)
Tom:
Ohh!
Trace:
What?!
Tom:
Ohh!
Molly:
Well done. (giggles)
Trace:
Wow, Lucy nailed it.
Molly:
Lucy nailed it.
Lucy:
(laughs)
Molly:
Got it.
Tom:
That's fantastic!
Trace:
So Si Woo was a blind masseuse and waved at the detective.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Trace:
Well...
Molly:
Yeah. And unfortunately in Korea specifically, the art of massage, only visually impaired people are allowed to practice massage legally, because it's sort of keeping that space open for people who are visually impaired...
Tom:
I've read that somewhere, and it annoys me that I did not connect Korea and massage until you said that.
SFX:
(Molly and Lucy laugh)
Molly:
It's okay, Tom. It's okay.
Trace:
That's cool.
Tom:
My brain is meant to be full of stuff like this, and it clearly is, but the filing system is not quite there.
Trace:
Yeah.
Lucy:
Yeah.
Trace:
They need a better search.
Lucy:
Ban the librarian.
SFX:
(Tom and Lucy laugh)
Trace:
(laughs flatly)
Molly:
So yeah, so in South Korea, only visually impaired people are allowed to practice massages. And that law dates all the way back to 1913 when it was introduced as a way to give the visually impaired better job prospects. And there's a risk of 30 million won, which is $25,000, fines or three years of imprisonment. it's thought that tens of thousands of illegal masseurs flout that law. And it's been upheld on multiple occasions in court, most recently in 2021. Wild.
Trace:
Oh, wow. Neat!
Molly:
Yes. So Si Woo was practicing massage illegally because he was not visually impaired. And in Korea, only visually impaired people are allowed to practice massage. And the wave gave it away.
Tom:
Which brings us to the question that I asked right at the start of the show. Thank you to Peter Scandrett for sending this one in. Every Street in Manchester has a church building on it. Why is that not unusual? Before I give the answer to the audience, anyone want to take a shot at that?
Trace:
I was going to guess that 'church building' meant that... it isn't necessarily a... It's just something the church built. So either a plinth or something, you know? Something that isn't an entire building necessarily. A brick, you know?
Tom:
That'd still be unusual.
Trace:
It would be... but less so than a whole building.
Lucy:
Did the church just own everything?
Tom:
(laughs)
Molly:
Yes, that's kinda what I thought too. They just had a lot of real estate.
Tom:
Again, that would be unusual.
Trace:
Yeah, true.
Tom:
And we are cheating a little, because this would be very easy if you saw it written down.
Lucy:
Repeat the question, Tom.
Tom:
Every Street in Manchester has a church building on it. Why is this not unusual?
Trace:
Oh, because... it's on the street signs. The church building, like a picture of the church is on the street sign.
Tom:
No, but have a think about the street sign.
Molly:
Is the city logo, does it have a cathedral in it or something?
Tom:
Nope.
Trace:
Oh... Tom.
Tom:
I know.
Trace:
Every Street.
Tom:
I know just from the tone of that!
Trace:
Tom.
Molly:
Oh, boo!
Trace:
Every Street.
Molly:
Yeah.
Lucy:
That's—
Molly:
Hey.
Trace:
Hey!
Tom:
I'm just gonna— Just to repeat. Thank you to Peter Scandrett for sending that question in. Yes, there is an Every Street in Manchester, a street called Every Street. And it has a church building on it, which in itself is not particularly unusual. Thank you very much to all our players. Let's find out, where can people find you? What's going on in your world? We will start with Molly.
Molly:
Thanks so much for having me. This is so fun. Yeah, I'm Science IRL on all the places where there are videos, and I make lots of plant stories and science stories in general.
Trace:
I am Trace Dominguez everywhere that you can find social media. And look for my podcast, That's Absurd, Please Elaborate. We answer silly questions with science communication. It'd be fun to have you.
Tom:
And Lucy.
Lucy:
Dr. Lucy Rogers on most social medias, and in 2026, my book's going to come out.
Tom:
Hey!
Lucy:
So, look out for it then.
Tom:
And that is our show for today. If you want to know more about what we do, or you want to send in your own questions, you can do that at lateralcast.com. You can find us at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are video highlights regularly at youtube.com/lateralcast. Thank you very much to Dr Lucy Rogers!
Lucy:
Thank you very much for having me!
Tom:
Trace Dominguez.
Trace:
Thank you. This was fun.
Tom:
And Dr Molly Edwards.
Molly:
Thanks, had a blast.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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