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Episode 108: A very helpful beach
Published 1st November, 2024
Sophie Ward, Julian Huguet and Tina Huang face questions about moving monuments, passed-over paintings and easy exams.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Gemma, Manuel Omil, Mauricio Herrera, Bryce, Daniel Rogers. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
The Wedding Feast at Cana, by Veronese, is the largest painting in the world's largest museum. Yet most people stand with their back to it. Why?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
As always, on this show, I have a script full of very difficult questions, and today's panellists really have their work cut out for them. So that origami skill is going to come in handy.
We start today with science communicator, formerly of Seeker, and now the other half of That's Absurd Please Elaborate after—
I say other half because Trace Dominguez was just on the show the other week. This week we have Julian Huguet. Welcome to the show.
Julian:
Hi, Tom! Thanks for having me.
How did my boy do last week? Was he good? Did he do me proud?
Tom:
Absolutely fine. We have a lot of plugs for your podcast right now. But go ahead.
Julian:
(laughs heartily)
Tom:
Tell me about That's Absurd Please Elaborate.
Julian:
Well, Tom, you were a guest on one episode that was fabulous, of course.
It is a science and, boy, we sure do try and do comedy, and one day we'll get there, podcast where we take the most outlandish, absurd questions that we can solicit from audience members, and then we do our very best to find an answer and follow that ridiculous rabbit hole, wherever it may go.
Tom:
Did Trace give you any tips for this show?
Julian:
None whatsoever. He told me I was on my own, and he hoped I failed.
SFX:
(others giggling)
Julian:
We have a healthy working relationship.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Very best of luck to you. There are no points here. But I do fully expect you to be keeping score against Trace somehow anyway.
Julian:
(laughs) Oh, I will.
Tom:
Second member of our panel is returning to the show:
Science communicator, from her own YouTube channel, Soph's Notes, Sophie Ward, welcome back.
Sophie:
So nice to be back. I'm so chuffed I've been invited back. That's absolutely lovely.
Tom:
Welcome back. How did you feel last time?
Sophie:
I had a great time last time, I feel like I came in quite worried that I was going to absolutely do terribly, and I went— it went okay. So I'm worried now because I've got confidence. So I feel like this time, it's gonna go terribly.
Tom:
(laughs)
Sophie:
So, I'm just easy breezing it right now.
Tom:
Set the expectations low. You'll be fine.
Sophie:
Exactly.
Tom:
It's my philosophy for life.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
What are you working on at the minute?
Sophie:
Honestly, a lot of things that aren't on the internet, so, but...
Tom:
Oh, that's really nice!
Sophie:
I know, isn't that lovely? But, if you want to keep an eye, yeah. Well, no, I'm going to leave that bit, actually. Just things that aren't really on the internet, which sounds a bit suspicious, but just, yeah.
Julian:
(laughs)
Sophie:
Things in my life that you can't see.
Tom:
I recommend it as just a good attitude for life, that, really. Just don't put it on the internet.
Julian:
So secretive. What are you working on? You don't— You're never going to know.
Sophie:
I mean, the YouTube is still there. It's still mulling over. But right now, it's just Sophie stuff.
Tom:
And the third member of our panel today. Another new player, data scientist talking about AI, tech, and self-learning on her YouTube channel. Tina Huang, welcome to Lateral.
Tina:
Thank you for having me.
Tom:
Did you get any advice from anyone before coming on here?
Tina:
I didn't even know what this was.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tina:
I must be honest with you. I still don't really know what this is.
Julian:
(laughs uproariously)
Sophie:
Best advice, don't listen to the show at all.
Tom:
It is lovely to have you on here. What are you working on at the minute?
Tina:
Yeah, what am I working on? I'm still working on my YouTube channel. I am, I'm just going to say, I think I'm actually going to start a podcast very shortly.
Tom:
Welcome to the club.
Tina:
Yeah, so just mostly internet stuff. Maybe the opposite, I suppose. I'm doing all the internet stuff these days.
Tom:
Well, very best of luck to all three players. I'm just gonna get my papers in order.
SFX:
(paper rustling)
Tom:
So let's see who's going to be Imperial, and who'll be wearing the Foolscap.
Foolscap, it's a paper-sized joke.
SFX:
(Julian and Sophie laugh)
Tom:
They can't all be winners. Here's question one.
Thank you to Mauricio Herrera for sending this question in.
The Angel of Independence is a famous monument in Mexico City. When it was built in 1910, there were nine steps at the base. These days, visitors need to climb 23 steps. Why?
I'll say that again.
The Angel of Independence is a famous monument in Mexico City. When it was built in 1910, there were nine steps at the base. These days, visitors need to climb 23 steps. Why?
Julian:
And it was built in 1910. That seems like a long time after Mexico became independent.
Sophie:
Mm.
Julian:
Right? Is that relevant? I feel like 1910 in there is a clue.
Sophie:
Yeah, my thought with independence was... it's like a build your own statue. You gotta do it yourself. Which is why someone's deciding to put more steps into it. It's my way of building a statue and being independent is to put more steps in, yeah.
Tom:
I like the idea of a statue that you order as Lego.
Sophie:
Yeah, yeah.
Julian:
They are coming out with a lot of sets lately. It wouldn't surprise me. Yeah, that— I do love that idea. You're a strong independent kid now. Go build the monument.
Sophie:
Yeah, exactly.
Julian:
It's like a rite of passage in Mexico City.
Tina:
An earthquake. That's kind of what I... Something changed the height of it, is what my mind goes to first.
Sophie:
So something pushed it higher, which means the extra steps.
Tina:
Yeah. It was either that or people got short. So...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Sophie:
The average size. (chuckles)
Julian:
They had to make a lot of little steps in between the larger steps.
Sophie:
Yeah.
Tina:
Yeah.
Julian:
You might be on to something there, actually.
Tina:
Which one? The first part or the second?
Julian:
The second part, right? What if, 1910, they were like, the safety hadn't been invented yet, right? So what if it was really, really steep steps, and people were getting injured? And then they were like, maybe we put little itty bitty steps in between.
Sophie:
Interesting. Yeah, 'cause the nine— It's right, Julian, 1910. What do we all know about the year 1910? Anyone got any ideas about what happened that year?
Julian:
Uhh... Uhh...
Tina:
When did independence in Mexico happen?
Tom:
1821.
I don't know that. Producer David just sent that to me in the... (laughs)
Julian:
Which is coincidentally nine decades earlier, right? That's about 90 years earlier.
And now there are how many steps, Tom?
Tom:
23 now.
Sophie:
Okay.
Julian:
23 steps.
Sophie:
That's an extra 14 steps.
Julian:
It hasn't been 140 years.
Tom:
It wasn't symbolic, unfortunately.
Julian:
Dang it, okay.
Tom:
Tina was actually quite close with the first of the two guesses.
Tina:
Oh, the first, not with people getting short.
Julian:
Geological event?
Sophie:
So something...
Julian:
took place?
Sophie:
Yeah, okay. So it's either something that's, yeah, pulled the ground below or pushed the statue upwards or...
Tina:
Earthquakes. Is there a fault line in Mexico?
Sophie:
Yeah, if there's a...
Tom:
There's not a specific fault line there, but you've basically said it, Soph.
Sophie:
What, that something set... Well, oh, so it broke.
Julian:
So it pushed, yeah.
Sophie:
And then pushed them...
Julian:
The statue up?
Sophie:
upwards?
Tom:
You know how you made two guesses, Soph?
Sophie:
Oh, where the ground went downwards. Is it just erosion? Is it just the ground got eroded down?
Tom:
I think that's close enough, yeah.
Mexico City is sinking.
Julian:
Oh, really?
Sophie:
Ah, okay.
Tom:
So Mexico City is steadily descending.
It sits on top of Lake Texcoco. Again, apologies to Mexico. I'm probably mispronouncing that.
But, why isn't the statue moving?
Julian:
Did they anticipate this happening? And they anchored it with a bunch of piles in the ground?
Tom:
I mean, basically, yeah.
They didn't anticipate it, but it's just built on really solid foundations.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Julian:
They just selected a really good site for it.
Tom:
Yeah, I think between the three of you, you've got that.
Since the monument was inaugurated in 1910, Mexico City has sunk by almost three metres. And the statue has not.
Tina:
Oh wow.
Julian:
Wow!
Sophie:
Wow. Three metres, that's a lot. Crikey.
Julian:
I'm not one to buy into symbolism, but if my statue of my country's independence seemed to be rising ever higher above me...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Julian:
I would think our country was definitely ordained by some higher being. That's how I would take it.
Sophie:
(giggles) Yeah.
Tina:
It is an angel, so...
Tom:
It is an angel.
Julian:
Yeah.
Sophie:
Yes. Oh my gosh.
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them.
We're gonna start today with Julian. Whenever you're ready.
Julian:
Alright, panel.
When making a pousse-café cocktail, you need obviously a glass, spirits, but what other basic piece of equipment is needed, and why is it necessary?
When making a pousse-café cocktail, you need a glass and spirits, obviously. But you need another basic piece of equipment. What is needed, and why is it necessary?
Tina:
How do you spell that?
Tom:
(laughs) We were all gonna ask that, weren't we?
Julian:
No, no cheater, Tina, no!
SFX:
(Tom and Julian laugh)
Tina:
Maybe it's a French word that I may know of. That's what I mean.
Sophie:
Yeah, exactly. Can you say the letters in French, please?
Tom:
(laughs)
Julian:
P-O-U-S... I don't even know what— I don't know. Pousse-café.
Tom:
If I knew what... I'm assuming it's P-O-U-S-S-E.
Julian:
Correct.
Tom:
Alright.
Sophie:
Like push.
Tom:
Yeah, that's 'push coffee', right?
Julian:
Correct. That is the literal translation.
Sophie:
It's giving cafetière, surely.
Tina:
Why does it need spirits if it's coffee?
Julian:
Well, it's a cocktail.
Tina:
Oh, oh, it's a cocktail, okay. Well, a French press?
Sophie:
Yeah.
Julian:
(laughs) But run the liquor through a French press? Ew.
Tina:
It's a French coffee, right? Wait, it's a pousse-café?
Julian:
Mhm.
Tina:
So there's coffee in it because it's a café. And it's French press. So it must be a French press.
Julian:
I think you're getting too literal on the name and maybe need to think elsewhere.
Tom:
Is French press one of those things, like French fries, where it was actually named after Mr. French?
Julian:
(cackles)
Tom:
I can absolutely believe that.
Julian:
I have no idea why the name is what it is, and I can tell you that if that's the route you're going to pursue, you're not going to get to...
Tom:
Okay.
Sophie:
Okay, I just wondered if it was a French name for an espresso martini. But no, it's not.
Julian:
It is not.
Sophie:
Okay, so maybe... My other thought, maybe it's really messy. The way that you make it is really messy. So you need something to clean it up. You make a big mess, and then you clean up your big mess.
SFX:
(guests giggling profusely)
Tom:
It's like those ice cream shops where they just have a frozen slab, and they mix ice cream and stuff together. That, just with cocktail, and they just have to kind of scrape it into the cocktail glass afterwards.
Julian:
Yeah. You pour a shot and then you have to throw it into the glass from across the room.
SFX:
(Tom and Sophie laugh)
Tina:
Is that what the French do?
Sophie:
Yeah, that's how it's done in France.
Julian:
It's very French.
Sophie:
Yeah, or it's just made in a bin? it's just a horrible, dirty cocktail that's just made in a bin.
Julian:
(laughs hysterically)
Tom:
I went to a cocktail bar once that had a cocktail called Bin Juice.
Sophie:
Oh, wowie. Did you have it? Did you order it, Tom?
Tom:
No, no, no. I can't even remember what was in it other than everything.
Sophie:
Oh my gosh. Yeah, a little bit. Or it's you know, when you pour pints, and then the dregs that are left, some people drink those, all the leftovers from the poured pints.
Julian:
Or squeeze out the mat on the bar. No, it's— This is a basic item that – unless you're an extreme bachelor – I guarantee you have it in your house.
Tina:
So it requires spirits, sorry, and what again?
Julian:
A glass.
Sophie:
A glass.
Julian:
Right, so we're including that as part of the components necessary to make this.
Sophie:
Unless you're a bachelor. That I feel is a little bit... Which makes me think, is it... But it's definitely not cleaning items.
Tom:
It's something that's really common. I feel like unless you are just straight out of college and surviving on one fork and one knife,
Julian:
Yes.
Tom:
You're gonna have this somewhere in your house, okay.
Julian:
Yes.
Tom:
This is where it's revealed that I do not have one of these things.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Julian:
Tom's like, "Gosh, what do I need to buy in order to make this?"
Tom:
(laughs)
Tina:
I live from a suitcase, as you can see.
Julian:
Yeah.
Sophie:
Oh yeah.
Tina:
So I was like, I would not have this item.
Sophie:
What is something you always pack in your suitcase, that you're willing to share on the internet?
SFX:
(Tom and Julian laugh)
Sophie:
Maybe it's that.
Tina:
Underwear.
Sophie:
Underwear. Maybe it's underwear. I mean, maybe a pousse-café is strained... through a pair of knickers? I don't know.
Julian:
Disgusting. Also incorrect.
Tom:
(laughs) Okay.
Sophie:
I thought clean. I meant clean. Thank you very much.
Julian:
Okay, you use a part of this item in a way that you don't normally use it.
Tom:
Is it anything to do with coffee?
Julian:
I'm telling you, if you're going for what the name says, it'll mislead you. It might have a coffee liqueur in it, but that's not relevant.
Tom:
So the push has to be relevant. How are you pushing liqueur?
Sophie:
And it's an item that you might use. But you wouldn't normally use.
Julian:
Yeah, a bartender would use the back of this item.
Tina:
A plate.
Julian:
(laughs) No, no.
Sophie:
Yeah, I'm thinking spoon or something, yeah.
Tom:
There are cocktails that are poured over the back of a spoon.
Julian:
You got it. You got it. It is a spoon.
Sophie:
Oh, right.
Julian:
You pour it over the back of the spoon. Now, the second part of the question is, why is that necessary?
Tom:
So, the reason you do that for... I can't remember what it is, but there's definitely a cocktail in English as well, where you pour it over the back of the spoon to avoid two things mixing. It means that you just drizzle the... whatever the lighter stuff is, you drizzle it over the back of a spoon, and it just sort of steadily eases its way out over the top. So it's to keep two elements separated?
Julian:
Tom, you are correct.
Tom:
How do I have bartender knowledge? How does a non-drinker have bartender knowledge?
Sophie:
Hang on a minute, but Tina, do you have a spoon in your suitcase?
Tina:
I really don't, actually.
Tom:
(laughs)
Sophie:
There we go. You can't make a pousse-café.
Julian:
When Tom said... "you only have a fork and a knife," I was dying.
Tom:
Oh!
Julian:
Because I'm like, you're right there! You're literally right there! What's the one piece of cutlery you're missing?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Julian:
Yes, that's correct.
So a pousse-café, it's a cocktail that's a drink with up to seven different layers, and each spirit has a different specific gravity, right, or relative density.
There is no standard recipe. You're just trying to find things with different densities. So for example, you might have, at the bottom, grenadine syrup, then a coffee liqueur, then crème de menthe, triple sec, bourbon, and rum.
And so to get those layers, just like Tom says, you pour it over the back of the spoon so it breaks the fall and those liquids don't mix.
And it's definitely nicer to look at than to drink, I would say, because some of those liquors and flavors sound absolutely disgusting, taken all at once.
Sophie:
I mean, to be fair, Tom, when you said you had bin juice, which was just a mix of everything, this sounds like it's— this is like classy bin juice. It's just everything, but it's all layered nicely. So, yeah, it's poubelle, poubelle juice.
Julian:
It's not from the bin. It's from the garbage.
Sophie:
Exactly.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Thank you to Bryce for this next question.
Noah Lyles won the Men's 100 metres at the 2024 Paris Olympics. All other things being equal, why would he have lost if the race had been held according to the setup from the 2008 Olympics?
I'll say that again.
Noah Lyles won the Men's 100 metres at the 2024 Paris Olympics. All other things being equal, why would he have lost if the race had been held according to the setup from the 2008 Olympics?
Tina:
I'm so sorry, I'm going to have to ask this question. 100 metres of what?
Tom:
(blurts laugh)
Tina:
Of running?
Tom:
You've got how this show works!
Sophie:
Yeah, it's true!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
In this case, it is the 100 metre sprint. It's the standard track-and-field event.
Julian:
Oh, I know this! I know this one.
Tom:
Okay, Julian.
Julian:
I'm going to refrain. I'm going to refrain.
Tom:
You sit out. This is on Soph and Tina.
Sophie:
Oh, no. Tina, mate, we've lost one of the brains. We can do this. Okay. Is it—
I'm wondering if it's to do with technology. I feel like there was a lot of chat this year about... you know, ultimately what makes someone win isn't based on them. It's based on the tech that's used to measure... who actually wins, right, and the time measurement and stuff. So I wonder if it's something about the technology that was used then versus now.
You're a tech person, Tina. What are your thoughts?
Tina:
Wrong kind of tech. I do software.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Sophie:
Okay. In my head, I was like—
Julian:
No, no, I do AI. No exercise for me.
Sophie:
Okay, but maybe software?
Tina:
I'm wondering, does it have anything to do with the 2008 Olympics being held in Beijing?
Sophie:
Mhm...
Tom:
It's not. Soph is actually quite close with technology to the point that I'm not really gonna say anything more yet.
Sophie:
Okay.
Tina:
Okay.
Sophie:
It's a good job I've got a lot more to say about technology there.
SFX:
(Tom and Sophie laugh)
Tina:
So something to do with the shoes, perhaps? More bounciness of shoes?
Sophie:
Or with the shoes, where it's measured. What point they're... In the second finish, where do they measure the finish point from?
Tina:
Oh.
Sophie:
Is it the toe? Or is it the average of the foot? But I feel like it's probably always been the toe, hasn't it?
Julian:
In running, it's the chest. If you watch when they sprint, they'll stick their torso forward right at the end.
Sophie:
Oh, is it? I thought they were all just really proud.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Julian:
Yeah! For country!
Tom:
I mean, it should be.
Sophie:
Say it with your chest.
Tina:
I had one more question. If it were, was it Lyle? Is that his name?
Tom:
Yeah.
Tina:
Lyle?
Julian:
Noah Lyles.
Tina:
If it were Noah Lyles.
Sophie:
Noah Lyles.
Tina:
Oh yes, Noah Lyle. If it were not Noah Lyle, would it still be different? Does it have anything to do with this person, or not really?
Tom:
Not specifically. There was only a tiny difference between the two who were at the front. If Lyles had been even slightly slower, he would have come second.
Tina:
Think about all the technologies that is used. So there's the gun, right, when they start. What is that thing that they bounce off of when they run?
Julian:
The starting block?
Tina:
The starting block. And then there's shoes, and then there's the finish line. So one of these things, I think, must have changed.
Tom:
Yes. And when I say all other things being equal, I did say if it was held according to the setup from the 2008 Olympics.
Sophie:
I think then, yeah, but then it's not where they measure it. Because they measure it from the chest. So then... It's like VAR, it's like with football. There's certain... you know, offsides that won't be allowed since VAR. And so it must be something like the technology, if it had been done with the tech from 2020, 2008... he wouldn't have won.
Julian:
Tina mentioned another component besides the shoes and starting block. What was it?
Sophie:
The gun.
Julian:
Yeah, 2008, they used a gun.
Tom:
I mean, they used a gun in 2024 as well.
Sophie:
Yeah, but is it— But was it in 2008, was it like a bang smoke-gun, and now it's like an e-gun? You know, basically?
Tom:
Yes, so talk me through it.
Sophie:
Okay.
Tom:
What's that going to change?
Sophie:
Well, I wonder, well, with the bang gun... But then, it's because it's the exact same race, and my first thought was, oh, there's a subtle difference in when people hear and see the smoke and stuff. But with this, with an e-gun... I mean... Wait, Noah—
Tom:
What might that e-gun do? How might that work?
Sophie:
Well, I think the e-gun goes, and then it's timed between when the e-gun starts. There's a time between the e-gun starts and when the person crosses, and is that how the time is measured? No, your face is saying no.
Tom:
No, there's something... You are so close! You've got even the technology that's changed. It's changed from a... a bang gun, as you put it...
Sophie:
As it's called.
Tom:
...to an electronic starting pistol.
Julian:
Right.
Tom:
How might that—
Sophie:
So how does that even...
Tom:
Right.
Sophie:
What does that do? Does it just go...
Tom:
Yep!
Sophie:
beep beep, begin? What is that?
SFX:
(Sophie and Julian laugh)
Tom:
Yeah.
Tina:
The gun is not independent in itself then? Does it relate somehow to... the starting block or anything else? What does an e-gun do that is different than the bang gun except for make sound?
Sophie:
So the sound comes from directly behind them?
Tom:
Yes.
Sophie:
The gun triggers a sound behind each person individually?
Tom:
Yes.
Sophie:
To tell them to go. Versus a smoke-gun – a bang gun, sorry, to give it its proper name – where...
SFX:
(Tom and Julian laugh)
Sophie:
it depends where everybody's standing.
Tom:
Yes.
Sophie:
So there's a subtle difference there. But sure, but that would've been an issue back then.
Tom:
Why is there a subtle difference there?
Sophie:
Because obviously the further you are, that you'll have a slight delay. Right, so the delay that one has with a bang gun from the people who are near it versus far from it was enough to make up the difference between the two frontrunners in the 2024 Olympics.
Tom:
You have nailed it.
Sophie:
Okay, okay. Because in my head, I was just like, in my head I was like, but that's an issue, right?
Tina:
Yeah.
Sophie:
The bang gun, that's— But I guess it's a problem they've solved with the digital gun.
Tom:
Yep.
Lyles was in lane 7. Thompson, who came second, was in lane 4. They were separated by 5 milliseconds. And that is less than the sound travel time between those two lanes.
So, if they had run in 2008... the runner in lane 7 who came first would have heard that bang more than 5 milliseconds later, would have started more than 5 milliseconds later, and would have come second just because of that difference between a physical bang in the air and a trigger that means they all hear the same sound at the same instant.
Julian:
So cool. Science.
Sophie:
Wow. That is wild, wow.
Tina:
That is really cool. Speed of sound.
Sophie:
Yeah.
SFX:
(both snicker)
Sophie:
Yeah.
Tom:
Tina, it is over to you for the next question.
Tina:
At the University of Vigo, Spain, some science students are tested by way of an exam each May. For the students that fail, they find a September resit is much easier to prepare for, even though the questions are the same. Why?
I'll repeat that.
At the University of Vigo, Spain, some science students are tested by way of an exam each May. For the students that fail, they find the September resit is much easier to prepare for, even though the questions are the same. Why?
Julian:
So they fail in May, and then they retake it four months later? And it's easier?
Tom:
It's the same questions?
Tina:
Yes.
Julian:
They have time to cheat. They have time to look up all the answers. (chuckles)
Sophie:
I mean, yeah. My thoughts are like, what happens in Spain... in the seasons before May?
Julian:
Napping.
Sophie:
And what happens in, yeah, in August. And I wonder if in August—
Julian:
A month long vacation.
Sophie:
Yeah, like...
Julian:
Yeah.
Sophie:
Or people don't go out as much because the tourists are a pain, so then they just stay and revise?
Tom:
Hold on, I'm confused though. If they're getting the same questions a few months later... do they.... Surely, have they already seen them? Are they just... I'm confused by the same questions thing.
Sophie:
Yeah, that's true. The same questions is quite specific wording. It's not the same questions, surely.
Tina:
Yeah, so they are the exact same questions, but there is something that makes it such that it doesn't matter.
Tom:
Huh.
Julian:
That's fun— You know, it's been a while since I was in school, but I remember coming back from summer break and having forgotten everything.
Tom:
(laughs)
Julian:
I was useless when I return, you know, and the teacher would be like, "Okay, you all remember how to do integrals?" And I'm like, "Haha, no!"
Sophie:
(chuckles)
Julian:
Why would that break help?
Sophie:
Yeah, actually be positive? Well, okay, so what is— What exam are we talking about here? If there's an exam where the questions can be the same, but it doesn't make a difference... is it some kind of practical exam?
Tina:
(nods, gesticulates)
Sophie:
So... Okay, I'm getting nods. So maybe something about, yeah, what would make it easy to prepare for over the summer?
Tina:
Mhm.
Sophie:
Or over August?
Julian:
Did they do an internship over the summer? An apprenticeship or a work study? Were they hands-on the whole summer with some, whatever field they're in?
Tina:
So it's not because of having extra experience. Soph, what you were saying, you're on the right track there. And actually going back to what you said in the very beginning, you said, "Oh, what's the difference between May and September," right? So those are— Those two are big hints.
Sophie:
So, maybe it's an outside based thing. And so if the weather's better in August, they can spend more time outside, so they can practice this thing more?
Tom:
Or the— We don't know— Do we know what subject this was? Was that in the question?
Julian:
It was "science", right?
Tina:
Yep, science.
Tom:
We don't know which science, though. It's a biology practical, and it's really hot in May, so the proteins denature quicker.
Julian:
Yeah.
Tom:
(mutters)
Julian:
The specimens are all rotting and stinky, and they're unidentifiable.
Sophie:
Is it the days are longer? Is it something to do with...
Tina:
No, no no no. Go back to what you were saying earlier about practicals. It's about something practical. Identification. Something that's based upon that.
Sophie:
Oh, so is it looking at species?
Julian:
Is it, yeah, identifying birds, and they're actually back at that time?
Tom:
(laughs) You have to find a certain number of birds.
Julian:
It's, yeah. Look at these birds.
Tina:
That's actually pretty close. That's pretty close.
Julian:
Oh! Oh, in your face, Tom!
Sophie:
Oh, not this game. Not other animals that aren't birds.
Tom:
Or insects. Or something like that.
Sophie:
Insects, yeah.
Tom:
There's a different biological population for mysterious reasons in September.
Tina:
What sciences are there? Let's think about that.
Sophie:
Oh, great question, wow. You got your physics.
Julian:
Biology.
Sophie:
You got your biology.
Tina:
No, no, I mean, the things that you were talking about, like birds or insects.
Julian:
Right.
Tina:
What else changes?
Julian:
Okay.
Tom:
Plants. It could be a botany thing, or a... Are the plants in flower? Are the plants... Wait, do you have to collect leaves, and now it's autumn?
SFX:
(guests snickering)
Tom:
This seems—
Sophie:
That's actually very—
Tom:
This seems a bit easy for an exam.
Sophie:
Oh, tree— Yeah, trees, yeah.
Tina:
You're getting really close. Plants.
Sophie:
And then remember, it's the same questions, and it doesn't matter that they're the same questions.
Tom:
Mhm.
Sophie:
And it's a practical exam. So maybe you have to go out and find leaves? Or find samples of things?
Tina:
What else is on a thing in which a leaf grows?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tina:
I think we're getting pretty close.
Julian:
Flowers. Flowers.
Tina:
There you go, yes.
Julian:
Blossoms.
Tom:
Okay.
Julian:
Yeah.
Tina:
There are fewer types of flowers available in autumn.
Julian:
Oh, okay.
Tom:
Okay, so how does that make...
Julian:
So they actually— The test is like, in spring, go out and identify a bunch of flowers, and they're overwhelmed. And then in fall, when almost everything's dead, it's super easy, is that it?
Tina:
Yeah I was going to say, there's...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tina:
That's pretty much it.
Julian:
What?
SFX:
(laughter continues)
Julian:
Yeah! I love that. They just naturally let— You know what? You're not so great at this. But trust me. In three, four, or five months, you're gonna be a rock star.
Tom:
(laughs)
Sophie:
Mother Nature's gonna help you out, yeah.
Julian:
Yeah, we're gonna give you an assist. Thanks to the tilt of the earth. You got this.
Tina:
Exactly, exactly it.
Julian:
Are you a certified half year biologist then, or like botanist?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Julian:
Like, "Yeah, I'm only good in the winter months."
Tom:
It's like taking a driving test when the roads are quiet. You still get the licence at the end of it.
Sophie:
Exactly, yes.
Julian:
Yeah.
Sophie:
London is, you just spend it on the clutch.
Tina:
So biology students are tested on their flower identification skills using real plants and lab equipment. So they actually have to go, you know, look at what is available then. So in Spain, most flowers tend to bloom in the first half of the year. So even if the professor is trying really hard, there simply isn't that many flowers that he can— he or she can put for the student to identify. So students need to revise a smaller range of plants than in the May's test.
Tom:
Thank you to Daniel Rogers for sending this question in.
Why would it have been awkward if the actress Jemma Mead became a star on Breaking Bad?
I'll say that again.
Why would it have been awkward if the actress Jemma Mead became a star on Breaking Bad?
Julian:
Great show, by the way. Classic show.
Sophie:
I have not seen Breaking Bad, just a warning. I know broadly what it's about, though.
Julian:
Yeah, the failures of the American healthcare system.
Tina:
Could you give a synopsis? I have no idea what this show is or who this person is.
Julian:
So, a high school chemistry teacher is diagnosed with cancer, and because he cannot afford the treatment, he does the next logical thing, which is cooking meth.
And then, of course, it leads him down a path where he becomes more and more power-hungry and maniacal. And at a certain point, it's not about paying for the cancer treatment. It's about the power.
And it kind of consumes him and his best friend, Jesse Pinkman. And they get into all sorts of crimes until, you know, somebody has to die.
It's very good. Highly recommended.
Tom:
Julian, if you are the only person here who's seen Breaking Bad...
Julian:
We are in trouble. We are in trouble.
Tom:
I have a suspicion. There is some pop culture stuff about this that might have sort of seeped into other people's brains through osmosis, though.
Julian:
So, the— What was the actress's name again?
Tom:
Jemma Mead.
Sophie:
Jemma Mead.
Julian:
Jemma Mead, okay. The main stars of Breaking Bad were Aaron Paul, who played the more street-smart guy. And then Walter White was played by Bryan Cranston. If you saw Malcolm in the Middle.
Sophie:
Malcolm in the Middle. Yes, I know him.
Julian:
Yeah, he has a major heel turn in his career. Is Jenna Mead... related to anybody in any way? Is that important, I wonder? I've never heard of Jenna Mead.
Tom:
No, there's no personal relationships or grudges involved here.
Sophie:
My wondering was, does she— Is there just something to do with meth? Because I knew it was about meth, so I was like, what's Jemma Mead's relationship to meth?
Julian:
Yeah, is she a recovering meth addict, and she couldn't be on set with all the pretend meth? Which was, by the way, blue rock candy that apparently Aaron Paul would eat a lot of in between takes.
Sophie:
Oh, wow.
Tom:
No slander on Jemma Mead here. This is very much to do with that show.
Sophie:
And no one knows who... Sorry, is it Jenna or Jemma?
Tom:
Jemma.
Sophie:
And none of us know who Jemma Mead is. Is it because mead is a rival substance, and she just didn't want, you know, mead versus meth? She's very dedicated to mead, you know?
Julian:
You've got your meth dealers and your mead dealers.
Sophie:
She walks around with a lute behind her, yeah.
Julian:
(guffaws) I could just see a sketchy mead dealer on a corner.
Sophie:
I need to pay for my plague treatment.
SFX:
(Tom and Tina laugh)
Julian:
Verily, might I interest thy in some mead?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tina:
She British? Is mead a British substance?
Tom:
It wouldn't really make a difference. Think more about the show and what the designers of that show might have been working on.
Julian:
What, like the prop department specifically, or... Costumes? Set dec?
Sophie:
Forget about mead. Does she have a monopoly on red rock candy? And so they used a blue rock candy. I'm really grasping here. (laughs)
Tina:
Blue rock candy, okay.
Sophie:
How would you describe, Julian, the setting of Breaking Bad?
Julian:
It's in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
They wanted to film somewhere else, but for tax breaks, they went to Albuquerque. I think originally it was LA. And, it kinda became this iconic look where the show's very dusty, dry desert.
The question says it would've been awkward, right?
Tom:
Yeah, the designers would've had a problem.
Not necessarily set designers, but people with the look of the show.
Sophie:
Is it— And it's just— People are just in normal clothes, Julian? It's not like a sort of...
Julian:
Yeah, normal early 2000s garb.
Tom:
Think in more of the titles.
Julian:
Breaking Bad. Oh, oh, what's her name again? Jenna Mead?
Tom:
Jemma Mead.
Sophie:
Well, all I know is that Breaking Bad, it's got the... it's elemental chemical symbols. So, 'Ge', 'Me'.
Tom:
I knew there was something that would've seeped in by osmosis. You're right, that is...
Julian:
Well, what chemical elements are in "Jemma Mead" that would be awkward? Okay, I don't have—
Tom:
Talk me through the titles, Julian. Just for the folks out there who've never seen anything about Breaking Bad, what do the titles look like?
Julian:
The show's opening credits, the motif is there's always a chemical element in people's names that they... they put in those parts for the letters instead, you know?
So 'Breaking Bad', the 'Br' of 'Breaking' and the 'Ba' are like the chemical elements for beryllium and barium, if I've got that right. And so, and they do that with everybody's names.
So Jemma Mead...
Sophie:
Well, does she not have any?
Julian:
Are there no elements that you could put in substitute for her name?
Sophie:
Yeah, because 'G-E' or 'J-E', whichever way it is. 'M', 'Em', no, 'Mm', 'Ma', no, 'Me'.
Tom:
You could do 'Ge'. You're right there, but Jemma Mead.
And thank you to Daniel Rogers, who has clearly gone through most of IMDb to find an actor for whom this is true.
Jemma Mead is a name with no possible chemical elements into it. If she had been cast in Breaking Bad, the designers would not have been able to do that gag in the opening titles.
Sophie:
Oh my gosh.
Julian:
Oh. (laughs)
Tina:
Oh my god.
Julian:
Thank goodness. Thank goodness. I can just imagine casting coming in and being like "We found the perfect actress for the strung-out meth head. Jemma Mead, you're gonna love her." They just flash it on screen real quick. They're like, "co-starring Jemma Mead," and then it goes away. Boom!
Tom:
Soph, over to you.
Sophie:
Thank you very much, Tom.
This question has been sent in by Gemma.
On a dark and foggy night, a local fisherman comes ashore on the 18-mile-long Chesil Beach in Dorset, England. He's lost and can't identify any lights or landmarks on the shore. Yet, he can very quickly sense which way he needs to sail to return home. How?
I'll do that again.
On a dark and foggy night, a local fisherman comes ashore on the 18-mile-long Chesil Beach in Dorset, England. He's lost and can't identify any lights or landmarks on the shore. Yet, he can very quickly sense which way he needs to sail to return home. How?
Julian:
I have an inkling of why? I don't know the answer, but I have a suspicion.
Tom:
Alright. I mean, go for it. If you nail this in one, knowing, I think, nothing about Chesil Beach.
Julian:
I will tell you this anecdote first, and that is, there was a baseball commentator named Yogi Berra... who's famous for very weird, peculiar sayings of his.
And he lived on a loop, and he lived right in the middle of the loop. And to get to his house, you'd come to a fork. And it would— You could go either way, and it would take the same amount of time to get to his house.
And so when giving directions to a friend once, he said, like, "When you come to the fork in the road, take it."
Tom:
(laughs)
Julian:
This reminds me of that.
It's 18 miles long, but it doesn't matter which way he goes. He's got no frame of reference. No lights, it's dark, it's foggy, and yet he knows which way to sail.
Could it be that it's a loop, and it makes no difference?
Tom:
Chesil Beach isn't a loop, but it is definitely like a spit of land. I think it's a long... I don't know if the term is peninsula or isthmus or sandbar or something, but it's definitely a long spit of land. But I don't think there's two possible routes out of it.
Julian:
Am I on to anything there, Soph? Doesn't matter, coming or going?
Sophie:
Yeah, I enjoyed the lore, Julian, but it's, no, I'm afraid not.
Julian:
Gah!
SFX:
(Tom and Tina laugh)
Julian:
All that for nothing.
Tom:
So much for yes-anding on that one.
Julian:
(laughs) ...No.
Tom:
It's great, occasionally as question master, you just get to go "Nah."
Sophie:
Yeah. Tom, have you been to Ches— As the Brit in the room other than myself, have you been to Chesil Beach? I just want to check this.
Tom:
I think I've been there at some point in my life. I know enough to know it's just a sandbar or spit or some weird configuration of sand. But I can't remember more details than that.
Sophie:
Interesting. I'll let you talk a bit longer before I give my opinion on what you just said.
SFX:
(Tom and Julian laugh)
Tina:
So there, he sailed there, and then he knows where to sail afterwards, right?
Sophie:
To get home.
Tina:
To get home.
Sophie:
But it's dark.
Julian:
Does he live on Chesil Beach, so he's home already?
Tina:
That's what I was thinking.
Julian:
He's done? It's fine?
Tom:
It's 18 miles long. He doesn't know where along the beach.
Sophie:
Yeah, the point is he arrives, and then he knows which way he needs to sail. He knows which direction he needs to go in to then get to his home.
Tina:
Is that the tip? Then you just keep sailing down, right?
Tom:
No, it's a long parallel bar— I'm going to have to Google what Chesil Beach looks like after this, but... It's like a long sandbar that's parallel to the main coastline, I think.
Sophie:
It's interesting, Tom, that you keep saying sand. I'm just going to point that out. It's interesting that you keep saying it's sand.
Tina:
Oh, is it because the footsteps are... If you can... (wheezes)
Tom:
And when there was only one set, that was God carrying him.
Julian:
There were two!
SFX:
(group giggling)
Julian:
(imitates angelic choir)
Sophie:
No, it's not about footsteps. It's the— It's— Yeah, what else would a— What else might a beach be made of that isn't sand?
Julian:
Rocks.
Tom:
Pebbles. I don't know why I assumed it was a sand beach.
Julian:
Dirt.
Tom:
So is there something in... the configuration of the pebbles, or the...
Julian:
It's made of discarded road signs that all point the same direction.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Julian:
So he knows.
Sophie:
Yeah, those are the three options for a beach. Sand, pebbles and road signs.
Julian:
Yeah, yeah. Listen, in California, that's not far off.
Tom:
Oh, there is, there's a whole beach... Vanessa Hill, who's been on the show before, did a video a while back. There's a whole beach in New York that is just debris. It's just trash that has washed up over the years. Little bits of it are radioactive. And it's just entirely just sea glass and things like that, so...
Sophie:
Reminds me of Blackpool. (giggles)
Tom:
Yeah.
Sophie:
My home sweet home.
Julian:
He measures the half-life of the radioactive elements to know when they were deposited...
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Julian:
and then orientates.
Tom:
This is a complete shot in the dark.
Chesil Beach is a spit of land. It's thick at one end, it's thin at the other. But it's wide enough that you wouldn't be able to know which way.
Do the pebbles sort themselves by size? It's sand at the tip of it. And it's pebbles at the thick end where it connects to land. And you can tell after you've walked a few steps.
This is getting away from me as I say more about it. But as you walk, if the pebbles are getting smaller, you're going towards the tip?
Sophie:
Tom... Your shot in the dark... has hit a target.
Tom:
Ohh!
Sophie:
You are correct.
Tom:
(laughs)
SFX:
(Julian and Tina clap softly)
Sophie:
Yeah, so Chesil Beach. Well done, Tom.
That's why when you were like, "it's a sandbar," I was like, it's no. Basically, and the key word in the question was sense, right?
Because basically, Chesil Beach... Something to do with the action of the waves and the differing erosion rates over time means that on the far west side of the beach, the pebbles are pea sized, and they get larger as you progress towards the east. So even in darkness, the fishermen would be able to feel the size of the pebbles on the shingle to guesstimate where... the whereabouts he is on the beach, and therefore which way he needs to go.
And a fun little extra bit is that the location was made famous by Ian McEwan in his novel On Chesil Beach, which was later turned into a 2017 film starring Saoirse Ronan and Billy Howle. So you can check that out.
Julian:
No Jemma Mead though, huh, no?
Sophie:
No Jemma Mead. What work has she got?
Julian:
Tragic, she's gotta get more— We gotta get Jemma Mead more work.
Tina:
There was that one part that confused me. It said, sailed back home?
Sophie:
Yeah, I guess it— So he would land, and then I guess he would go back and then know which way the boat would need to go. But yeah, that was in the wording.
Tina:
That confused me, because I was like, because that feels like you're walking back home, right?
Julian:
Grinding the hull into the rocks. And it's like, oh, there's more resistance. I'm going the right way.
Tom:
Which just leaves me with the question I asked at the start of the show. The Wedding Feast at Cana by Veronese is the largest painting in the world's largest museum, yet most people stand with their back to it. Why?
Sophie:
(gesticulates silently)
Julian:
I think I know this one.
Tom:
It looks like several of you know it. Go for it.
Sophie:
No, I, well I think, let's do it together, Julian. Is the largest museum by any chance the Louvre?
Tom:
Yes it is.
Julian:
The Louvre?
Sophie:
And Julian, why would you think? What do you think? I think we've got the same answer.
Julian:
I think there's one really famous painting in the Louvre...
Tom:
(laughs) Yes.
Julian:
That everybody goes to see. And that would be the Mona Lisa.
Sophie:
The Pousse-café! Oh, sorry.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Julian:
Yes, oh, oh! You're right, yes. Some say the Mona Lisa is the pousse-café of paintings, in that it's pretty to look at, but I don't think it's that great personally.
SFX:
(Sophie and Tina giggle)
Julian:
And I actually, I went, and I remember, I saw this painting in the Louvre, 'cause it's massive!
Tom:
Yeah, 22 feet wide, 32 feet high, and it is what the Mona Lisa is looking at.
Julian:
Yes, and everybody's elbowing each other out of the way to get their dumb little smartphone out and take a crummy picture of something that they've seen on a bajillion mouse pads.
And now there's a Lego set of it. We talked about Lego's got a bajillion sets.
And I just remember being like, "Why is nobody appreciating this? Why?"
Sophie:
You heard it here first, guys. Size doesn't matter.
Julian:
Yeah.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Julian:
Yeah, unless, well, the thing is, nobody could steal the largest painting in the world, right? That's why the Mona Lisa's so famous in the first place.
Tom:
I dunno, put enough of a heist team together, and that's a movie right there.
SFX:
(Julian and Sophie laugh)
Julian:
Ocean's 75.
Tom:
Thank you very much to all our players.
Let's find out, where can people find you? What's going on in your lives?
We will start with Tina.
Tina:
Yeah, you can find me on YouTube. Just type in my name, Tina Huang, and that will pretty much tell you everything about me. I overshare.
Tom:
Sophie.
Sophie:
Yes, you can find me on Instagram and YouTube and the like at @SophsNotes. And whatever I'm doing, you can see it there. That's Soph's Notes.
Tom:
And Julian.
Julian:
If you like podcasts, I have great news for you. I host one along with Trace Dominguez. It's called That's Absurd Please Elaborate.
Tom:
Thank you very much to all three of you.
If you want to know more about this show, or you want to send in your own idea for a question, you can do that at lateralcast.com. You can find us at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and you can catch video highlights regularly at youtube.com/lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Sophie Ward.
Sophie:
Thank you so much.
Tom:
Julian Huguet.
Julian:
Oh, well, thank you for having me, Tom.
Tom:
And Tina Huang.
Tina:
Thank you very much.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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