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Episode 112: Driving in both lanes
Published 29th November, 2024
Abby Cox, Matt Gray and Iszi Lawrence face questions about mendacious mugs, biblical blurting and nifty notes.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Adam Thomas, Syauqi. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
In what kind of mood do people recite verse 35 of John chapter 11, perhaps unwittingly?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Before we begin, a little fact for you. Did you know that a lateral speech sound is when you push your tongue to the roof of your mouth? Funnily enough, just like the 'L' of 'Lateral'. So if a lateral hadn't been invented, this show would actually be called ATARA.
But then I guess the whole word wouldn't exist, and actually the entire history of the world and biology would have been very different. And, you know what? I really haven't thought this through.
So hoping to have an L of a time today, first of all, we have:
fashion and cultural historian, author, and from her own YouTube channel, Abby Cox. Welcome to the show.
Abby:
Hello, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
We just missed each other at VidCon in LA this year, apparently, and...
Abby:
Yes.
Tom:
It's wonderful to see someone from such a completely different niche and genre from everything I work in. You still find out interesting facts and history and everything like that, but there's stuff I'd never even considered before. What are you working on at the moment?
Abby:
I am doing an overly in-depth history about mummies as medicine.
SFX:
(Tom and Matt gasp)
Abby:
And how that came about and how basically... just a bunch of dummies who thought they knew better in the 1100s and 1300s were like, "We'll just change this interpretation of Arabic. It's fine to include dead people. 'Cause that makes sense.
Tom:
Wow.
Abby:
And, yeah, so I've been reading a lot about corpse medicine and early medieval stuff. And I may or may not have a Henry VIII costume
Tom:
(laughs)
Abby:
in my back room for later. I almost wore it for this, but I was like, that might be coming on a bit too strong.
Iszi:
(snickers)
Tom:
That might be a little— For a first appearance, it's a strong— For a first appearance on an audio-first podcast, that is a strong opening move.
Abby:
Yeah.
Tom:
Very best of luck on the show today. You are joined by comedian, broadcaster, and writer of children's historical fiction, Iszi Lawrence, welcome to the show!
Iszi:
Hello! Lovely to be here. I'm hoping I'll be able to do this, 'cause I can't really think in a straight line. So laterally seems to be...
Tom:
(cracks up)
Iszi:
I've basically got the brain of a crab, so...
Tom:
That is entirely the right description, and the right kind of lateral description, for this show.
Just before coming on, you were saying that you were relying on... Abby and— not Abby specifically but that sort of historical research for your own books.
Iszi:
Yeah, exactly. So, like, when I have to write about what pirates are wearing and how they avoided getting blisters and that sort of thing while climbing ropes, how they— They didn't, by the way. They just got the blisters.
Tom:
Oh right.
Iszi:
Yeah, it was just grim, yeah. Don't go to the 18th century, guys, not fun.
Matt:
I don't think I've ever felt sorry for a pirate before.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
Really?
Matt:
Awh.
Iszi:
You should feel sorry for pirates. It's, you know... They are ultimately heroes who murder people. It's great. But yeah.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Iszi:
But yeah, so, I— And also weirdly, my latest— I've got a book coming out in January about ancient Egypt. It's set in 1249 BCE. And so I get to... We meet a mummy. So that's nice, you know.
Abby:
Don't eat it though.
Iszi:
Exactly. And I've heard about that. Have you heard of sin eaters?
Abby:
Yes, yeah. I actually did a video about funeral gifts last year, and...
Iszi:
Ah.
Abby:
touched into the sin eater concept.
Iszi:
If somebody's died before they can confess, you put food on them, like a loaf of bread or something. Then you get the sin eater out, and they'll eat the bread, absorb the sin, and the other person could go to heaven, no questions asked, so...
Abby:
Eating cookies was a thing, too. Funeral cookies were a thing. It's like, kids would go to wakes. And just be like, "Can I have a cookie?"
Iszi:
(wheezes)
Matt:
I've heard of people crashing weddings, but not wakes. (laughs)
Iszi:
Oh no, they do! Old people crash wakes all the time, just come in and eat the sandwiches, pretending they knew the person. And funerals are better than weddings. We all know this.
Abby:
The food is definitely better.
Matt:
And the first dance is always better at a funeral.
Tom:
(chortles)
Abby:
(wheezes)
Tom:
And I should introduce, at this point, the third member of today's panel.
From his own YouTube channel and others, broadcast engineer, and someone who's never felt sorry for a pirate, Matt Gray!
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Matt:
Hello! First time caller, long time listener. And it's a pleasure to meet you for the first time, Tom.
Tom:
Well, that last bit was originally, "and someone who I've known for... what's becoming dangerously close to 20 years."
Matt:
(giggles profusely) Well, thank you for having me on.
Tom:
What are you up to at the moment? As if I don't know.
Matt:
(laughs)
Tom:
But for the benefit of the audience, Matt, what are you up to at the moment?
Matt:
I'm working on videos for my YouTube channel.
I have a series called Matt Gray is Trying, where I have a go at loads of wonderful and ridiculous different jobs. Showcasing the skills of really clever and skillful people in the industry. Like recently, I've done road line marking, DNA sequencing, and stenography, where you're typing with a weird keyboard.
So I'm currently talking with some... secret yet very cool companies about maybe playing with their things.
Tom:
Well, very best of luck to all three of our players today, on what got described just before we went on air as the elder Millennial edition of Lateral.
Matt:
Oh yeah!
Iszi:
(giggles)
Tom:
And—
Iszi:
Bang on.
Tom:
Or, as I now have to call it, thanks to the callback to my introduction joke, which is a good five minutes ago now, ATERA.
But, listeners longing for laughter laden lunacy, let's launch the lateral lesson.
Matt:
(wheezes)
Tom:
With question number one.
An English company designed a stoneware mug with an irregular shape. Even though it had virtually no handle, it was very useful to a specific group of people. Who?
I'll give you that one more time.
An English company designed a stoneware mug with an irregular shape. Even though it had virtually no handle, it was very useful to a specific group of people. Who?
Iszi:
Okay, so initially, I thought of two things. First off, some sort of children's cup which doesn't spill.
Abby:
Yeah!
Iszi:
Which is a bit dull.
The other thing I thought of was... Lent, when you go through Lent, right, you get... People have special earthenware for it. Back in, I'm thinking, just after Tudor time, so sort of 17th century sort of time. They went for Lent in a big way. It was quite puritanical here in the UK.
And what they did was they invented really— If you're really rich, during Lent, you'd have really basic, horrible crockery and everything else to really sort of... It's not just that you're not eating very much, and you're eating boring stuff and no meat. You're also eating out of really rubbish things.
So maybe this is a mug that actually spills water on you deliberately, as a way of revealing your sin. That is my suggestion.
Abby:
I thought those mugs did have handles on them, though. The puzzle mugs.
Iszi:
Puzzle mugs, maybe. Because they're the ones with the little hole in. So like teapots and stuff that only pour when you cover the hole.
Matt:
Assassin's teapot, yeah.
Iszi:
I mean there's Toby jugs, which are a big thing.
Matt:
Oh, with the big face on it.
Iszi:
Yeah.
Matt:
Yeah.
Abby:
My grandma collected those.
Matt:
My dad had a few of them. They're hideous. Impossible to drink out of. That was the thing that always struck me.
Abby:
They're for vibes.
Matt:
Yeah, and I realise they're a display item. But the lack of practicality really annoyed me, because the handle was— It was always set right-handed, so then the face was pointing at you. Which means you can't drink with the face there. The face gets in the way. Not that anyone would want to drink out of it.
Iszi:
The face is looking down your top.
Matt:
Yeah.
Iszi:
But it's weird. Old mugs and pewter mugs and those sort of things. When you're sorta like, you know, thinking about history and that sort of thing.
When you think of a beer now, we sort of see it from the side, and we see through it. But back in the day, beer was considered really pure and nicer than water because it was always white. You only saw the white fluffiness on the top. You didn't see the sort of skanky brown stuff underneath so much.
So, this is sort of like trying to put your head back in the past and trying to sort of seeing it through. But I don't think this is the answer to the question.
Tom:
Unfortunately ruling out quite a lot of knowledge here. It's not historical, this.
Abby:
Oh?
Tom:
This is a fairly modern company.
Matt:
But I do the sound of an earthenware sippy cup. That's the most middle class way of...
SFX:
(others giggling)
Matt:
giving your children a drink.
Abby:
Yeah, you threw me off when you said red earthenware. I was like, okay, so we're going... 18th century or earlier. I was like, okay.
Tom:
It's stoneware mug with an irregular shape, with virtually no handle.
Matt:
Now, one thing I noticed is that it's English, rather than British or Welsh or Scottish, so maybe...
Tom:
(chortles softly)
Matt:
And it's made for a group of people. So did they make it for the Welsh? (giggles)
Tom:
Oh! (laughs) Just to annoy the Welsh.
Matt:
Yeah, send them to Scotland like a gift. It's like a Trojan horse, but it's full of really annoying things rather than full of war.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Iszi:
So why does it have an irregular shape? Is this to do with the drinking experience, or is this to do with its stackability? Is it something you can put away easily, and therefore it's used by big catering companies because we can pretend to be posh, but at the same time be really efficient?
Tom:
I would focus in more on there being almost no handle.
Abby:
Almost. So it has a little nubby.
Matt:
Oh, I've seen cups with a little nub on it.
Iszi:
Is it to exercise the fingers? Is it some sort of disability thing, that you're trying to strengthen your grip?
Matt:
(gasps, snaps fingers)
Tom:
The first part of that, you're spot on.
It is to help with finger exercises. Not for disability.
Matt:
I've got it. Climbers.
Iszi:
Yeah, that's good!
Tom:
Yes!
Abby:
(scoffs)
Iszi:
(giggles)
Matt:
The nub on the side is a climbing grip, isn't it?
Tom:
Yes, it's got what would be a very tricky grip on it.
Abby:
Yeah, like the finger grip.
Tom:
Not like the nubbing on a climbing wall, but like a little bit of a terrible rock face that would be really hard to cling on to.
Abby:
Yeah.
Tom:
Is the handle of the mug.
Abby:
Is the handle of the mug, okay.
Tom:
This is called the Pinch Hold Mug. It is a gift item for the rock climber in your life.
Abby:
Could you imagine though if you spilt that? I really hope you're not putting hot liquids in there.
Matt:
Oh yeah.
Tom:
It is designed for tea and coffee.
Abby:
It's like, that's risky.
Matt:
I suppose if they've got any spillages, they could dry them up with the little bag of chalk that they've got.
Tom:
Eyy!
Iszi:
Nice. And also they're adrenaline junkies. So part of the fun is in the spillage, you know.
Matt:
Part of the fun is in the spillage.
SFX:
(Iszi and Abby laugh)
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We're going to start today with Iszi.
Iszi:
It's possible to buy a magnetic 4-inch square plate that has a 2-inch-long black tube that does nothing. What is it for?
It's possible to buy a magnetic 4-inch square plate that has a 2-inch-long black tube that does nothing. What is it for?
Abby:
Is this related to... the tech world, in any capacity?
Iszi:
Mmm, yes.
Matt:
So I'm thinking here, there are some terms in this, like plate. 'Cause plate can mean food. But plate could also mean a bit of metal.
Abby:
And it's magnetic.
Matt:
So, that could just be a magnet.
Abby:
My brain instantly went to an iPhone holder.
Matt:
But then it would have a function, doesn't it? Is it the whole object that doesn't have a function, or just the tube?
Abby:
Yeah, sneaky words.
Tom:
My first thought is... that this is space related somehow. Because if you have a plate that is magnetic, you might be attaching it in zero gravity or something like that, so it doesn't float away. And the tube is to hold liquids or something like that, that bubble up in zero gravity or something like that?
Matt:
Amusingly, the first thing I thought of in the previous question was a cup that's specifically designed to work in space for coffee.
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
But that isn't earthenware, that's plastic. And that's a weird shape to use.
Tom:
Oh yeah.
Matt:
Surface tension to be able—
Tom:
Yeah, you wouldn't make something of... metal that was heavy unless you absolutely had to. You'd just make a plastic plate and attach a couple of magnets to it.
Matt:
So is it, perpendicular tube? Longitudinal? Are they attached? Are they just next to each other?
Iszi:
If you imagine, you know, a cup on the side of a— on a little coaster. It's like that, so it sort of sticks out.
Matt:
Just a big coaster.
Iszi:
And it's two inches long.
Abby:
Is it, the tube is two inches long?
Iszi:
It's a 2-inch-long black tube, yeah.
Abby:
Okay, we don't know the diameter of the tube, though.
Iszi:
We don't know the diameter. I mean, I can tell you the diameter, but I think that's not as fun.
Tom:
(laughs) You've got how this show works. Yep.
Abby:
(giggles)
Matt:
Musical instrument?
Iszi:
Have a think about why it's magnetic. And also remember, it does nothing.
Tom:
It does nothing?
Matt:
Well that means it's art.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
Hmm?
Matt:
'Cause art has no function. While I greatly appreciate it and agree with it, it has no function.
Tom:
(chortles)
Matt:
(giggles)
Tom:
We'll get complaints about that. We'll get complaints.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Iszi:
Art does nothing, but it may have a function.
Abby:
Okay, so it does nothing. It's magnetic, it's... The magnetic plate is four inches square. The tube is two inches long.
Matt:
And black.
Iszi:
And the black's significant.
Tom:
Okay, why does it have to be magnetic? Is it going to be attached to a fridge? Is it going to be attached to something else? Is it...
Iszi:
Not a fridge. But what else might you want to be able to put on something but take off?
Abby:
Oh, is it like a coat hanger thing?
Iszi:
You're thinking of those little towel things, aren't you, where you shove in your kitchen towel, and it sort of holds on to it, aren't you?
Abby:
Well, and we're like, we had a hook version of it.
Iszi:
Yeah, it's not a hook.
Abby:
Okay.
Iszi:
It literally does nothing.
Abby:
Is the tube floppy?
Iszi:
The tube is very much not floppy.
Abby:
Does this thing go in a kitchen?
Iszi:
No.
Abby:
Okay, does it go in an office?
Iszi:
No.
Matt:
It's... Is it a fiducial marker?
Iszi:
It is not a fiducial marker. It is a marker for something. I will give you a massive clue. This thing is trying to mimic something else.
Abby:
Does it— Is it to mark the height of something?
Iszi:
It's not to mark the height of something. Very early on, Tom said something about attaching to some sort of spacecraft. Think of another craft that this could attach onto.
Matt:
Aircraft.
Abby:
A car.
Matt:
Watercraft.
Tom:
Trains. Is it a car?
Iszi:
(nods silently)
Abby:
So it's like a hitch.
Matt:
But it's got no function.
Iszi:
I'll give you another clue. It's particularly popular, this item, with people who are resistant to change.
Tom:
Is it a fake antenna for your car?
Iszi:
You're so close.
Tom:
A black magnetic square.
Matt:
Is the whole thing black, or is it just...
Iszi:
The whole thing is black.
Tom:
So it's not like a fake petrol cap cover for your car, so...
Iszi:
So you're so next to this, it's ridiculous. You're almost in bed with it.
Tom:
What does a modern car have, that one from ten years ago doesn't?
Iszi:
Exactly that. Well done, Tom.
Abby:
Is it a handle? Is it to open the door?
Iszi:
Have you seen any new door handles recently?
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
What do modern cars have that old cars don't?
Tom:
An exhaust pipe? An exhaust pipe!
Iszi:
No! Not an exhaust pipe! Exhaust pipes aren't this big.
Tom:
No, they're not.
Iszi:
This stick!
Matt:
Oh, it's a pretend electric socket.
Iszi:
(clap) Boom!
Matt:
So then you can park in an electric parking space and have a plug fake plugged into your car.
Iszi:
Beautiful, Matt.
Tom:
Wow!
Matt:
Yes.
Iszi:
Genius.
Matt:
'Cause there are parking spaces where you're not allowed to park in, if you've got a dinosaur fueled vehicle.
Tom:
(cackles)
Iszi:
Exactly that.
Abby:
I live in Indiana, so I... whoo!
Matt:
Ah, so electric cars are...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Abby:
What are those?! (giggles)
Iszi:
It's not only people who want to drive— be in the EV parking spaces. It's also, they can be used as a joke. So particularly people with 4x4s, or people in Indiana, which have very obvious, loud, dirty diesel engines, will sort of stick them on and go, "Ha-ha-ha!"
Matt:
You put one on your Ford F-150.
Iszi:
Exactly.
Matt:
Yeah.
Abby:
I would tell you what most of those types of people hang off of their cars, but I don't know if it fits within the PG nature of this podcast.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Matt:
I'm guessing truck nuts.
Abby:
Yes! (laughs)
Tom:
Alright, we're gonna go for the next question.
At Ledgeview Golf Course, Wisconsin, there is a sign next to the tee of Hole 13, a Par 3. It commemorates Todd Welsing hitting his first ever hole-in-one on the 2nd of July 2020. Why do visitors find the sign amusing?
I'll say that again.
At Ledgeview Golf Course, Wisconsin, there is a sign next to the tee of Hole 13, a Par 3. It commemorates Todd Welsing hitting his first ever hole-in-one on the 2nd of July 2020. Why do visitors find the sign amusing?
Iszi:
I'm literally just writing out all the numbers.
Abby:
Yeah.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
Just go... 'cause... And remembering as well. It's Americans, they do— It'll be, it's July 2nd in American dates.
Tom:
Oh, yeah.
Matt:
(laughs)
Tom:
The Lateral book, I think, should be out by the time this episode goes out, and we have a US version and a UK version. And a lot of the changes are just swapping dates around, or putting metric second, or, just, it's—
There's very little cultural change in it. It's just a lot of imperial and metric stuff.
Iszi:
My favourite thing I've heard of that recently was, in the Harry Potter books, there's a bit where Fred and George Weasley create a swamp that they can't move. And the caretaker, Filch, has to punt the children over this swamp in order to get to classes.
And of course, every British person knows, a punt is like a gondola with a long pole that you punt along.
SFX:
(Matt and Tom crack up)
Iszi:
A punt in America, in American football, very different image.
Tom:
Very different.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Abby:
I mean, it fits though, with Filch. It vibes.
Iszi:
It does vibe, but it's a very different thing.
Matt:
I can see him kicking the children.
Abby:
My mental image was, yeah, him dropkicking Fred and George.
Matt:
(wheezes)
Iszi:
Whereas we're sort of, no, it's Cambridge, darling. It's Cambridge.
Tom:
(laughs softly)
Iszi:
You just, you know, take them along.
But it's interesting. Little translations like that don't come up.
So I know... I could tell you all I know about golf in about one word, and that's the word 'fore'. And I know that 'eagle' comes in there. And that's about—
And I've heard of Tiger Woods, which as Gary Delaney would say, is a daft place for a picnic.
Tom:
Eyy! (laughs)
SFX:
(Abby and Matt laugh)
Iszi:
Other than that... (giggles) I'm useless.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Iszi:
So, it's hole 13.
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
And par 3.
Iszi:
And golf course. This is where I learned that golf courses have a hole 13, because some hotels don't have a floor 13, so, or a room 13.
Tom:
They have 18, usually.
Matt:
Par 3 means you should be able to do it in three hits, right?
Tom:
Yep.
Abby:
It's also, since it's in Wisconsin... that made me instantly think of beer and cheese.
Because Wisconsin has the highest per capita alcohol consumption in the United States. And they're proud of it, yeah. It's a bunch of Scandinavian... ex people.
Tom:
Yeah, and the local sports team—
Abby:
Cheeseheads, yeah, Green Bay Packers.
Tom:
Yeah, the Che— Well, it's the Packers, but the fans are the Cheeseheads. They have just big, big styrofoam cheese hats that they'll wear for some of the games.
Matt:
Considering I know nothing about Wisconsin, I'm assuming it's kind of at the top, towards the left middle, and has a rectangle shape. Because all the boring states seem to be rectangle shapes.
Abby:
It's not rectangle. It's not— It's not glove shaped or mitten shaped in Michigan. It's kind of... (thrrp)
Matt:
Oh, I know where Michigan is, okay.
SFX:
(others crack up)
Matt:
It's up there in the left.
Tom:
That's not going to work in audio. But you know, somehow it does. You're right.
SFX:
(Abby and Matt laugh)
Tom:
Wisconsin is (thrrp) shaped.
Abby:
Yeah, it's... (laughs profusely)
Tom:
None of this is even vaguely relevant to the question. Just welcome to Wisconsin facts.
Iszi:
Okay, so... What was the name of the guy again, Todd?
Tom:
Todd Welsing.
Matt:
Van Helsing?
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
I hope at some point Todd Welsing has played Van Helsing.
Abby:
And you said it happened on July 2nd, 2020?
Tom:
Yes.
Abby:
So that was still during basic lockdown?
Iszi:
It was just, it was in between lockdowns in the UK, I think, July 2nd.
Tom:
Yeah, he wasn't breaking COVID restrictions, as far as I know.
Abby:
Also, a little side tangent. I don't know if it's related or not.
But since it is in July, July 2nd is technically when the Declaration of Independence was voted on, so that's our "real Independence Day" from you guys.
Iszi:
You guys just bang on about that, don't you?
Tom:
(laughs)
Abby:
It's not like it's important or anything.
Iszi:
Hey, I wrote a kids book set in New York during the American Revolutionary War, and it's told from the British side. So ha-ha-ha-ha.
Tom:
(hoots)
Abby:
That's okay!
Matt:
(cackles)
Iszi:
And Washington's a baddie. So nyuh.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
July 2nd, golf. There we go.
Matt:
And there's a plaque.
Tom:
Yes, there is a plaque next to the tee, which is the... Let's call it the kick off spot.
Abby:
(snorts)
Tom:
Commemorating this hole-in-one.
Iszi:
Yeah, well, what would it say on that plaque, is what I'm thinking.
Tom:
Yeah, there are a few extra words on that sign.
Abby:
Is it cheese related?
Tom:
It's not. You do not need Wisconsin knowledge for that. I do find it interesting that you've gone in on every number in that question, apart from one.
Iszi:
But 13.
Tom:
Mm.
Iszi:
So it's hole 13, so it's unlucky. But he's done something very lucky.
Abby:
Was July 2nd on... No, Abby, that's not how math works. Ignore me.
Iszi:
That's not how— July 2nd cannot be on Friday the 13th.
SFX:
(Tom and Abby laugh)
Abby:
I'm just trying to find out.
Matt:
Baker's dozen, was he a baker?
Tom:
Todd did not get to mark this on his scorecard as a hole-in-one.
Iszi:
Did something happen to his... Oh, because I've seen a lot of weird holes-in-one where things bounce off something else and end up in the hole.
And I saw a thing on TikTok recently where somebody was helped by a wizard because there was a butterfly that just went with the ball and just basically... fluttered it in for them. Is it that one?
Tom:
It's not that one, but you're right that something strange and unusual happened here.
Matt:
Is it the squirrel?
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
I've seen a squirrel doing that.
Tom:
No external factors. No animals, no other players.
Iszi:
Are there moose in Wisconsin?
Tom:
There are, but they weren't involved in this.
Iszi:
(groans)
Tom:
And even if that happened, Todd would still have been able to mark that as a hole-in-one, I think, under the rules of golf.
Iszi:
Was he not the guy who actually hit the ball? Was he the guy the ball hit, in order for it to get in the hole?
Tom:
Not quite!
Iszi:
Oh!
Tom:
But you're right—
Iszi:
Did he kill someone?
Matt:
(wheezes)
Tom:
Oh, no, he— Mixed emotions. It was an incredible moment. He's got a story out of it.
Matt:
Did he hit himself with his racket?
Iszi:
I mean, it's not a racket, is it? It's a club.
Matt:
Cue. Did he hit himself with the golf cue?
Iszi:
With his bat.
Tom:
What might give you a hole-in-one if you swung really badly?
Matt:
Was it a hole-in-one in the wrong hole?
Tom:
It was a hole-in-one in the wrong hole! Yes.
Abby:
We did it!
Iszi:
Well, Matt's done it twice, Abby. We've done nothing.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
Yes, this is a sign next to the tee of hole 13 commemorating Todd getting his first ever hole-in-one on the 16th green.
SFX:
(Matt and Abby laugh)
Iszi:
Wow.
Tom:
He shanked the tee shot. The ball flew off to the right. And it went squarely into the hole on the wrong green.
Matt:
That is the most sarcastic plaque.
Abby:
Honestly, I think I'd be more proud of that.
Matt:
If I ever get any kind of commemoration, I want a sarcastic one.
SFX:
(Tom and Abby laugh)
Tom:
Careful what you wish for there, Matt. Someone will take you literally on that.
Matt:
(giggles)
Tom:
Matt, it is over to you for the next question.
Matt:
This question has been sent in by Syauqi.
Kirana and Bintang took about six hours to drive from Jakarta to Semarang. Kirana drove on the left side of the road, and occasionally caught glimpses of Bintang driving on the right for the whole journey. How didn't they break the law or cause a crash?
Kirana and Bintang took about six hours to drive from Jakarta to Semarang. Kirana drove on the left side of the road, and occasionally caught glimpses of Bintang driving on the right for the whole journey. How didn't they break the law or cause a crash?
Iszi:
So, I presume that these places... I mean, Jakarta, I mean, there will be some sort of road laws, that you have to drive on one side of the road, as opposed to another side of the road. That will be the... Nowhere do I know where that isn't a thing. I mean, it could be a very simple answer, in that the roads are so narrow that there's no difference between driving on the left and the right.
Abby:
Is it a train thing?
Tom:
Indonesia's a big country and has... This is a lot of infrastructure in there. The main road out of Jakarta's gonna be massive.
Iszi:
Yeah. So, is there different rules for different vehicles?
Tom:
Yeah, but occasionally catching glimpses. So, they've gotta be on different... different routes, different locations, different something?
Iszi:
If there was that clause saying they hadn't caused a crash, I mean, they could've just pelted it and...
Tom:
One of them's just a really bad driver.
Iszi:
Yeah, that could be it. My guess would be a bus lane or something. So maybe buses use a different side of the road or... And the other person's driving a car.
Abby:
Or like a HOV lane.
Matt:
You're not going too far away from the right direction here. And this is a major travel route in Indonesia.
Iszi:
So what, do you just drive... I mean, is it the word 'drive' here, is the six hours? Otherwise they're saying, oh, maybe one of them was driving cattle.
Tom:
Yeah, I was just thinking that.
Iszi:
Very speedy cattle.
Abby:
Yeah.
Tom:
A lot of the ideas I've had have been ruled out by little bits in this question. It's like, oh...
Abby:
Yeah.
Tom:
Maybe there's somewhere else in the world where they have those— No, they caught glimpses of each other.
Abby:
I was like, is there a train involved? But that's not driving.
Iszi:
You don't drive a train, do you? Do you drive a train?
Tom:
Oh, you do drive a train, and...
Iszi:
We do drive a train. Train driver is a thing.
Tom:
There are countries in which they will drive cars on one side and drive trains on the other.
Matt:
Congratulations. That is absolutely correct.
Tom:
Eyy!
Iszi:
Eyy!
Matt:
Well done, Abby. 'Cause you said trains a while ago, and I kept my face as poker as I could.
SFX:
(Tom and Abby laugh)
Matt:
It's like the other two didn't even hear it.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Abby:
Well, why would the American know about trains?
Iszi:
Exactly.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Matt:
Yes, Kirana was on a road, and Bintang was driving a train.
Abby:
Amazing.
Matt:
In Indonesia, the trains drive on the right. However, cars drive on the left. Because this is the system used by the Dutch colonialists in Indonesia when cars became popular. And while the Netherlands changed sides in 1906, Indonesia kept to left-hand driving on the road.
Abby:
Oh, fascinating.
Matt:
Who'd have thought it would be the fault of colonialism?
SFX:
(Tom and Abby laugh)
Tom:
There's a couple of countries that have done that.
Sweden famously had H Day, because H, I can't remember what it was short for, but it was the day when the traffic changed from left to right-hand driving, as they came to Europe. Which, everyone just had to stop. If you were on the roads at 3 or 4 am that day, everyone stopped, then everyone moved to the other side, and then everyone proceeded slowly.
And my favourite fact about that is that accident rates went down for a few days. Because everyone was so, so cautious. And then accident rates spiked, because everyone thought they were used to it.
Iszi:
That's Jeremy Clarkson's idea of safe driving. Instead of having... airbags in your wheel... Have a big spike.
Tom:
Yeah.
Iszi:
Because that will make you drive more carefully. But it'll only make you drive more carefully until you're used to it. And then, of course...
Tom:
Yeah.
Iszi:
More fatalities.
Matt:
Every month you get a new, bigger spike.
Tom:
Next question's from me, folks. Good luck.
When Chris was being measured for his expensive new suit, it was vital that it was made two inches longer than he initially needed. Why?
I'll say that again.
When Chris was being measured for his expensive new suit, it was vital that it was made two inches longer than he initially needed. Why?
Matt:
I'm gonna have to sit out, 'cause I've got this one I think.
Tom:
Oh?
Iszi:
I was just gonna say he was a boy, and therefore was going to grow into it.
Tom:
(laughs) The very first note I have on here is that Chris is a fully grown adult. And I did think, as I read this out, Matt's gonna get this one.
Iszi:
Interesting.
Tom:
So, Iszi, Abby, this one's up to you.
Iszi:
You're the clothing expert, Abby, come on.
Abby:
Yeah, I mean, when I hear two inches longer, I hear hem allowance. But also if you're talking about pants specifically, usually there's a cut of men's trousers that you have basically a... I don't know the technical term off the top of my head, but it flips up. So it basically folds up. But to me, I'm like, if it's—
Iszi:
Cuff.
Abby:
Yeah, 2 inches longer, that's just a hem allowance. That's what I do in a lot of my clothes too, especially if I have a 1-inch seam allowance. But, I mean, it could be a trick question. I'm not a tailor.
Iszi:
I mean, the fact that Matt got this immediately and went, "Oh yeah, this is exactly what I—" and you didn't, makes me think that it's not something to do with the intricacies of tailoring.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
Not that I'm judging your T-shirt, Matt.
Abby:
(stifles giggle)
Iszi:
It's beautiful.
Matt:
I have a sewing machine right back there.
Iszi:
Okay, so we've got a fully-grown man who's ordering a suit that's slightly too big for him by two inches.
Tom:
Yep.
Iszi:
And I can only think that this is, I mean... The fact that Matt got this so quickly is making me just think there is a story. There's the Chris. Who do we know who wears suits who's called Chris? And I was like, I don't know anybody, do I?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Iszi:
I did, I did. I did work with a man whose literal name – he went on the news on ITV with – was Chris Peacock. Which is amusing if you think about it too much.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Matt:
(wheezes)
Iszi:
But he didn't order overly large suits. So it won't be him.
Abby:
But it's not two inches bigger. It's two inches longer, right?
Tom:
Two inches longer, yes.
Abby:
Yeah, it's not— So it still should fit him correctly around the chest and waist.
Iszi:
Is Chris a drag act who is wearing heels? And therefore needs the extra length in his trousers?
Tom:
I think, Iszi, when you said "he'd grow into it," you are technically right.
Iszi:
Okay, so... So, maybe, is it a case that when you put on weight, everything's— your trousers ride up slightly? If you getting really muscly? Maybe he was— Maybe he'd just joined the gym and was really sort of like, very, "Oh, I'll get skinny jeans, but I'll get them too long." And then there was like, "The extra material would be taken up by my quads."
SFX:
(Tom and Abby laugh)
Tom:
That would be broader. This is longer.
Iszi:
Yeah, I know, but if it's broader, it'll still shift up a bit.
Tom:
(laughs)
Abby:
Does he just have lifts in his shoes?
Matt:
Going for the Tom Cruise look.
Abby:
Yeah!
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
I mean, I'm also thinking, obviously, of things like Stretch Armstrong and Inspector Gadget, but—
Abby:
As you should.
Iszi:
Always.
Abby:
Yeah.
Matt:
The funny thing is, that is surprisingly close.
SFX:
(Matt and Tom laugh)
Abby:
Oh, does he have— Wait, wait-wait-wait-wait. Does he have... Oh god, I am lost my English. But is it because he's... an amputee?
Tom:
Oh, no.
Abby:
Okay.
Tom:
No, in fact, until recently, that would have been disqualifying for his job. Not anymore, but it would have been.
Abby:
Okay.
Iszi:
So is it something you have to pedal?
Tom:
(laughs) Hopefully not, no.
Iszi:
Okay. So, he's got this suit for his job?
Tom:
Yes, and it's a very, very expensive suit.
Iszi:
Is it to do with astronauts?
Because I know that astronauts have a really tricky time trying to fit their hands. They have to have slightly short... things for their gloves so they can reach into their fingers and that sort of thing, so their arms are slightly short. So they're always slightly bent when they're in space. Is it something to do with that?
Tom:
Yes, what might require you to have a spacesuit that is two inches longer when you measured for it?
Iszi:
Is it simply because when you're in space, you decompress your spine, and therefore you grow?
Tom:
Yep, you become roughly two inches taller in quite a short time, if you're going to spend time up on the International Space Station.
We don't know that this is a particular Chris. But yes, it was a bit of a clue. Matt, who were you thinking of?
Matt:
Well, obviously, I was thinking of Chris Hadfield, which made it even better when you started asking if it was for a drag act.
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Matt:
I don't know if he's done that, but I know if he does, I would like to go and see it.
Tom:
Yes.
Iszi:
But it's true. They have to have their hands... Their arms have to be slightly shorter, so they can reach the end of their gloves. 'Cause literally their suit floats off them. So they've got slightly too short arms, and then slightly too long legs.
Tom:
Yes, NASA says an astronaut can become up to 3% longer in space, because they are not being compressed by gravity. So if you're six feet tall, that is about two inches.
Abby:
Wow.
Matt:
And the other thing I think is because they're not standing, because they're just floating, their feet become as soft as hands. So it ends up hurting to stand again when they get back, if they've been up there for six months or whatever.
Iszi:
If you've ever damaged your leg— so I had a bad knee once— for that to be in a thing, and then you put your foot back on the ground, my goodness it hurts! You're just like, how is the ground this hard?! It's really hard!
Tom:
And when I said very expensive suit, does anyone want to give me a ballpark figure on how much, just your basic model space suit might cost?
Iszi:
I'd go $750,000.
Matt:
Oh, I thought 20 million.
Abby:
Maybe a million. If this is like a Price is Right episode, I'm like, a dollar.
Tom:
Also, if it's a Price is Right episode, and you go for a dollar, you're definitely wrong. It's somewhere about quarter to half a billion dollars for a basic spacesuit.
Matt:
Woah! Oh, and that expla—
So there's a problem with... women...
Iszi:
Oi!
Matt:
What do I say to start the sentence?
Tom:
That was a bad point to pause in your sentence, Matt.
I understand you were just going for the next word, but that was a bad place to pause.
Matt:
There's a problem that women have in space.
Because of the patriarchal history of... astronauts. And how expensive all the spacesuits are.
They've all been up there forever, and they haven't got any new ones. Which means women who have a different shape, frame, and everything – there is no standard human – have had problems with the spacesuits that are up there, because they are too big. And they end up bouncing around inside them and getting blisters and really bad rubbing. Because these spacesuits were designed for big men.
And then now women are up there, and they have things that aren't designed for them. Just like life down on Earth.
Tom:
Abby, it is over to you for the last guest question of the show.
Abby:
Alright, here we go.
So this question has been sent in by Adam Thomas.
College students sitting in a physics test were allowed to bring one sheet of notes into the exam room. However, a student found a way of having three times as many notes as anyone else without breaking the rules. How?
College students sitting a physics test were allowed to bring one sheet of notes into the exam room. However, a student found a way of having three times as many notes as anyone else without breaking the rules. How?
Tom:
I remember seeing a story about a professor who... insisted that students were allowed to bring in one 6x4 index card, or one 6x4 card, but did not specify the units.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
And someone managed to bring in, I don't know whether they went for yards or metres. But it was not inches. It was definitely not inches.
Iszi:
That's beautiful. I would suggest that it would be some sort of like their own code or language that you can do, like...
Matt:
Shorthand.
Iszi:
I know a lot of comedians actually who use symbology to remember jokes and that sort of stuff.
So there's a comedian called Chris Norton Walker, who if you look at his show notes, they're just little— It's almost like hieroglyphics. They're just, yeah, little pictures and shorthands.
So like a stenographer. Maybe they were a part-time stenographer, and that's how they knew how to do it.
Tom:
I'm thinking it's topological, but I can't see any way you can—
Matt:
That's where my brain went too. You're not going to have a Möbius piece of paper.
Tom:
And that's not going to give you three times as much. Three is a really specific number here.
Iszi:
I mean, especially if you could write on both sides of the sheet of paper to begin with.
Tom:
Yeah.
Iszi:
I mean, there's no possible way you could increase it anyway. Unless it was— Oh— Was it toilet paper, and it was three-ply?
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
So that you could write on—
Abby:
No. It was not. (laughs) Sorry. I also— just trying to imagine writing on toilet paper, and then getting sweaty nervous palms, and then it just disintegrating because you have test anxiety. And then now you also have just—
Iszi:
But at least you have something to blow your nose with when you're crying.
Abby:
(chitters)
Matt:
I was wondering if it was thickness. But that would give you six times more, because if it was a cube of one sheet of paper, obviously just a block of wood at that point, but...
SFX:
(Tom and Matt laugh)
Tom:
What is a sheet of paper but a very thin block of wood?
SFX:
(Matt and Abby laugh)
Abby:
Okay, I will say this, because this is listed as a clue. This was an ordinary sheet of paper.
Iszi:
Okay.
Matt:
Magnifying glass as well? Did they microdot the paper?
Abby:
I've got to say you're a little warmer. You're not like...
Iszi:
You know how there's those people who can make words read one word one way up, and another word upside down?
Tom:
Ohh.
Iszi:
I don't know what that's called, but you—
Tom:
Ambigrams.
Iszi:
You have those— Oh, it's usually the same word both ways 'round, but you could write, if you knew how to do that, you could write a word to look like another word when it was the other way up. But then that's only doubling.
Abby:
Yeah, you guys are definitely headed in the right direction. I will give you that.
Tom:
I'm trying to think what other exam cheats might be possible, because they couldn't have brought in other props. 'Cause I was like, oh, they brought in... 3D glasses, the red-blue ones, and then decided to put— to write in red and blue on the same paper.
Iszi:
That might be it. Because then you could have two different colour inks. So if you've got three different things, you've got your normal eyes, and you've got your red and your blue. Then you can write over the same thing three times, and see different things.
Abby:
Correct.
Iszi:
Boom!
Abby:
Yes, you guys got it.
Matt:
Wow!
Abby:
(laughs)
Tom:
I thought I was ruling that one out because it'd be like you'd need extra props.
Abby:
Yeah, so, the notes say:
A college friend of Neil deGrasse Tyson was sitting a physics exam, and students were allowed to take notes in the exam room as long as they fitted— they fit onto one sheet of paper. And this particular student wrote on the paper in three different colors of ink. Each ink overlapping. So he just kept writing on top of it in different colors.
And so it looked like an illegible mess... when you looked at it just with normal glasses, or just, you know, your normal vision. However, he was able to bring in three colored filters, which he laid on top of the paper. And that only showed one set of notes.
Iszi:
And then they banned filters.
Abby:
Probably so. I think proctors went, "No more, never again."
Iszi:
Yeah. But then that guy came up with Instagram.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Iszi:
Filters on.
Tom:
He's got a red filter, a blue filter, and the one that makes it look like it's from the 1970s for some reason?
Abby:
That Rio de Janeiro coming in hot.
SFX:
(Tom and Abby laugh)
Tom:
Which leaves just the question I asked the audience at the start of the show.
In what kind of mood do people recite verse 35 of John chapter 11, perhaps unwittingly?
Iszi:
I mean, I presume it's... I presume that John chapter 11— So John's New Testament.
Tom:
Yep.
Iszi:
Yep, so New Testament. So it's gonna be about Jesus.
Tom:
It is.
Iszi:
And it's going to be something like "Jesus wept" or something.
Tom:
It is exactly "Jesus wept".
Matt:
Well done.
Tom:
So what kinda mood are we looking for?
Iszi:
So, you know, you're meant to, "Oh," you're exasperated, "Oh, Jesus wept. This is ridiculous."
Tom:
Yep. The answer I have here is specifically "annoyed and exasperated". It is the phrase
Iszi:
I'm doing that so well.
Tom:
Jesus wept. That was a wonderful bit of deduction, Iszi.
Matt:
Yeah.
Iszi:
Well...
Abby:
Good job.
Iszi:
I'm surprised I knew that.
SFX:
(Tom and Iszi laugh)
Abby:
(applauds)
Tom:
Iszi, we will start with you then. What's going on in your world? Where can people find you?
Iszi:
Well, basically, if you go to iszi.com, you can find out all about me.
But if you're into dinosaurs, I do a podcast with Dr. David Hone from Queen Mary University about dinosaurs, called Terrible Lizards. And it is very popular. And if you're listening to this show, you will like it, because you are our people.
If you've got short people in your life, I do write historical fiction for kids: the Time Machine Next Door series.
And out in January, on January the 30th, I have a book called The Cursed Tomb.
And the thing about my historical fiction is, it's all as real as I can make it be. So I've actually got Egyptologists working on it. I do not like to make things up. I'm not a good author in that way.
So if you know any very pedantic children, check out iszi.com. I am, I'm yours.
Tom:
I feel like people who know pedantic children is very much the audience for this podcast. Matt, where can people find you? What's going on with you?
Matt:
I am at @MattGrayYES on all the socials, or you can go to mattg.co.uk, where you can see the links to everywhere you can find me, including Matt Gray is Trying on YouTube.
Tom:
And Abby.
Abby:
You can find me mostly on YouTube, just Abby Cox. If you type in my name into the search bar, you're going to get me, a dead hockey player, and the first lady of Utah. So it's pretty easy to deduce who's who.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Abby:
So, if you want to check me out on Instagram, I am just at IAmAbbyCox. If you want to go TikTok, I'm there too. But honestly, YouTube is where it's at, for now.
Tom:
That feels like one of those Oxford comma things, where actually, all those three descriptors are the same person.
Abby:
No, I am not the first lady of Utah.
Tom:
If you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Abby Cox!
Abby:
Thanks for having me! This was fun!
Tom:
Matt Gray!
Matt:
Yaaay!
Tom:
Iszi Lawrence!
Iszi:
A pleasure.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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