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Episode 114: Lawnmowing cleaners
Published 13th December, 2024
Ólafur Waage, Kip Heath and Carson Woody face questions about stressful starters, successful speculation and sequential scores.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Kevin, Daniel W., Moritz Lauer, Daniel Hurst, Nate, Joe Partridge. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
How did Fintan bank £1,000 on a British quiz show for a question he couldn't even guess at?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
O hark, ye listeners, lend an ear attuned to puzzles wrought where logic's oft disdained. A labyrinth of thought where minds are swooned, and reason's compass oft doth go astray. So let us delve, with wit and mirth entwined, into these riddles where the answers hide, and challenge minds so noble and so kind.
That's what I got when I asked the producer for a Shakespearean introduction, and he said that he's sonnet. He's—He's on it.
Ólafur:
Oh, no. No.
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Tom:
What I love is that it actually is in iambic pentameter. And I had to go through and check, because I knew someone is going to be annoyed if it's not.
Waiting in the wings to play Lateral today, we have one new player and two returning ones.
We'll start with our new player: linguist from his own TikTok and YouTube channel, Professor Woody. Carson Woody, welcome to the show!
Carson:
Thank you very much. Very happy to be here.
Tom:
Now, our producer noticed you – and I'm not sure this is something I want to encourage – but our producer David noticed you when you made a response on TikTok to one of our clips.
Carson:
Yeah, it was the episode of... You mentioned something about... I think it was a cigarette ad was the question. But there was something like pedantic grammar in there that people were upset about and—
Tom:
To boldly go where no one has gone before.
Carson:
Right, so you used that example as a hint, and I stitched that 'cause I do stuff all about linguistics, and I'm constantly talking about prescriptivism versus descriptivism, and that's such a great example.
Tom:
Oh yeah. Well, hopefully that sort of knowledge will come in good stead somewhere on the show today. What else are you working on at the minute, other than TikTok?
Carson:
Well, as of when we're recording this, today is actually my birthday. So I'm working on getting a little bit older.
Tom:
Oh, happy birthday, Carson!
Carson:
Thank you very much. And, I just launched a new YouTube channel with my friend. He also studied linguistics with me, called Professor Woody & Mr. Ford. Our first video just went live.
It's about discovering when a dialect becomes a language. And we just played a bunch of audio with English dialects that nobody could understand, and asked them if they think it's still English, or it should be called something else.
Tom:
Well, very best of luck. There will be a lot more to decipher on this show today.
You are joined by one of our returning players: clinical scientist and science communicator Kip Heath. Welcome back to the show.
Kip:
Hi, thanks for having me back.
Tom:
Always when I have 'science communicator' in front of me, I want to ask this question. And as you are returning, I can ask this. What science are you communicating at the moment? What are you working on?
Kip:
So most of my work at the moment is on communicating about antibiotic resistance and the fact that eventually... bacteria might kill us all again, which is always fun.
Working on a project called Dicing with Disease and showing people that when... we start losing even more of the antibiotics we already have, that actually getting simple everyday infections might not be quite as easy to deal with as we would hope.
Tom:
Thank you for phrasing that very delicately at the start of the podcast (laughs) and not bringing us down quite as much as I suspect that show can actually do.
Kip:
Just a little bit. (titters)
Tom:
Well, our third player today, returning from his own YouTube channel, making videos about tech in the Nordics: Ólafur Waage, welcome back.
Ólafur:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Tom:
Last time, I think you'd said you'd just got Doom to run on a satellite.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Tom:
What are you working on at the minute?
Ólafur:
(laughs) A little bit smaller things now. Some language, notary, and yeah, some programming videos. And I'm currently doing The conference circuit, so...
Tom:
Oh yes.
Ólafur:
Writing talks and going to conferences. And I have one coming up in a few days, so... It's going to be fun writing up all those slides.
Tom:
As someone who's done that circuit a few years ago... how close to the presentation are you planning to leave it? 'Cause the AV guys are gonna be annoyed at you.
Ólafur:
Oh, the classic saying is that the talk is ready when you give the talk.
Tom:
Yeah, yeah, so... With apologies to all the audiovisual teams at (laughs) every conference I've ever talked at!
Ólafur:
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Tom:
There's no Shakespeare questions today, which you may be glad to hear, but that is a shame, as I did study at Yorick University.
Kip:
(wheezes softly)
Tom:
Verily, let us venture to question one.
Thank you to Joe Partridge for this question. During the 1870s, officials in Paris, France would regularly roll giant wooden balls for hundreds of kilometres. Why?
I'll give you that one more time.
During the 1870s, officials in Paris, France would regularly roll giant wooden balls for hundreds of kilometres. Why?
Ólafur:
Isn't it the classic picture of, you know, "work smarter, not harder"? And you have the cube, and then someone cuts up the cube, and now you're rolling the ball down? So it's just— They're just travelling with stuff, right?
Tom:
And the customer at the end asks, "I asked for cubes to be delivered. Why have you spherified this?"
Ólafur:
(giggles)
Carson:
Is it... My first thought is maybe some kind of measurement. They know these balls are a certain circumference, and they're just trying to measure the roads or something like that?
Ólafur:
How accurate was pi back then, right? You'd have to have it pretty accurately if you're rolling at long distances.
Carson:
1870s, right? That doesn't seem that long ago. I feel like they were pretty good by then.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Kip:
I mean, they were sort of starting to standardise metrics and things in the late 1700s. So it's a bit later than that. I'm not going to give an exact number because I'm sure I'm wrong, but... I suppose our thing is, is what are the balls made— We don't know what they're made of. We don't know what they are.
Tom:
Oh, wooden balls. They are wooden balls.
Kip:
Oh, they're wooden, you said. I did listen to the question, I promise.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ólafur:
That's also pretty tricky, right? To make wooden balls, right? To make circular wooden objects. I mean, I don't know how lathes are back then, but... They're even just making it. Maybe they're showing it off. "Look, at the thing I made."
Tom:
(laughs)
Carson:
I guess if it's wood, knowing that it can bend and stretch, or if it gets wet, it might swell or something. Maybe it's not good for measuring? But, I'm not sure.
Tom:
When I say giant wooden balls, we're thinking about five feet, one and a half metres in diameter.
Kip:
It's quite big.
Ólafur:
It's pretty heavy as well. Maybe it's just for the weights, like you have to hold something down or... Like when you're pressing something. But then you just make it at the location. You wouldn't roll it around.
Kip:
Maybe it's the French 1870s conference circuit.
SFX:
(Tom and Ólafur laugh)
Carson:
(snickers)
Ólafur:
Oh, are they... Is it... Is the work in the actual pushing of the balls? Or is it the destination? Because if it's the pushing, are they making a road?
Kip:
Oh.
Ólafur:
You would make the intent that you would roll the thing, and they're like, "Oh, here we go. Here's the path." Or path for water, right? You have to roll it down to...
Tom:
(widens eyes, wags pen)
Ólafur:
Oh, Tom gives me...
Kip:
Tom has a face.
SFX:
(Tom and Carson laugh)
Ólafur:
Tom has a face.
Tom:
I need to have a poker face for this!
Ólafur:
Yeah!
Tom:
Yes.
Kip:
Okay.
Tom:
Certainly when you said path of water, you are starting to get there.
Kip:
Sewage? Which is English water currently.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Ólafur:
Oh, very good.
Tom:
Keep talking, Kip.
Kip:
Oh, I do, yeah. So, 'cause if you think that we're talking these days, not everywhere had sewage systems in-built. Oh, are they toilet systems? Between? No, that was mos... That was mostly in cities.
Ólafur:
Maybe it's the way to do the ditch.
Tom:
This was the 1870s in Paris.
Kip:
In Paris, not round.
Tom:
Yes, all over Paris.
Kip:
Ah, so they're not going from place to place. It's a very small conference circuit.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Carson:
Was it possibly... I don't know, to push sewage along? Maybe they didn't have a natural flow, and they needed some way to move it?
Tom:
Yeah, that's what they were using them for. This question... (laughs) You managed to avoid what I think the question writer was trying to do there, which is kind of get Indiana Jones vibes of one person rolling a ball in front of them. And you all just went straight past that. Yes, these were to help clear out the Paris sewers. These are giant wood balls reinforced with iron for extra durability that would be put into the Paris sewers. So the cross section of the sewers was about 1.5 metres. The balls were about 1.5 metres. So they would just force any blockages through with the water pressure.
Ólafur:
The strangest game of pinball out there, right?
Tom:
(laughs)
Carson:
(snickers)
Kip:
I mean, is it better or worse than Indiana Jones being chased by a giant sewer ball? Or a rock?
Tom:
Oh yeah, it's only a five foot ball. But it is preceded by and covered in an enormous amount of sewage. So, you know...
Carson:
Yeah. I'd rather be behind it than in front of it. In that case.
Tom:
Yes.
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them.
We will start today with Kip.
Kip:
So this question has been sent in by Daniel Hurst.
In September 2024, Preston North End played Fulham in the EFL Cup 3rd Round football match. Even though no goals were disallowed, the score '0-0' was shown by the TV coverage during three separate periods of the game. Why?
I'm gonna say it again.
In September 2024, Preston North End played Fulham in an EFL Cup 3rd Round football match. Even though no goals were disallowed, the score '0-0' was shown by the TV coverage during three separate periods of the game. Why?
Ólafur:
Well, it could just be that... Okay, let's just throw this out there. It just went 0-0. There we go.
SFX:
(Tom and Kip laugh)
Kip:
It's not separate periods of the game though, is it?
Ólafur:
Oh, no, okay, okay.
Carson:
Do they do this at this stage of the EFL Cup?
I'm a big soccer fan, but I'm an Arsenal fan. I don't watch a lot of the lower levels there.
But did— Was it like an overtime? So they went first half, second half, and then, you know, extra time, the first half of extra time?
Tom:
Yeah, but I don't think the EFL does golden goal or anything like that. It would have had to have gone to 1-0 at some point, surely.
Ólafur:
Yeah, because, yeah, the thing has to be resolved. This is one of those you can't have a tie kind of situation.
Tom:
Also, I love that the North American is the football fan in this call. This is great.
Carson:
A soccer fan, excuse me?
Kip:
Some of us watched that match, actually.
Tom:
Oh! Oh, oh.
Kip:
No. No. Also, you're an Arsenal fan who doesn't know that Fulham's in the Premier League, so...
Tom:
Oh, okay!
Kip:
(giggles)
Carson:
Well, I was... Okay, look.
Ólafur:
(laughs)
Tom:
Also...
Carson:
I don't keep up with all the teams. My bad.
Tom:
Sorry, just massive stereotyping that I assumed Kip would not be a football fan. Sorry, Kip.
Kip:
Oh, Kip was... partially a season holder for West Ham. So not sure we can talk to Carson at this point. We'll see.
SFX:
(Tom and Carson laugh)
Ólafur:
This is where the podcast ends. I'm sorry.
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Kip:
This is where Tom doesn't realise there was going to be a football banter.
Tom:
Oh yeah.
SFX:
(both crack up)
Tom:
Y'all carry on with that. It'll be fine.
Ólafur:
Me and Tom are going to be on the same team. I haven't watched football since the '90s, so...
Tom:
I've only been to a few football matches in my life, and I went to one when I was studying. It was one of the towns I grew up in, versus the town I was going to university in. 'Cause they were both in the same league for... I didn't know who I wanted to root for. But what did happen is that...
Does anyone remember Setanta Sports?
SFX:
(Ólafur and Kip shake head)
Tom:
It was a cable network, or something like that, that for some reason had bought the rights to all the lower league games for that year. And they'd just turn up at one or two random ones, and just, "Yeah, we're going to broadcast that." Everyone hated them.
And I've never been quite so proud of both the town I grew up and the town I was studying in, when all the fans – and we're going to have to bleep this – All the fans together chanting "(bleep) off Setanta"
Kip:
(cracks up)
Tom:
in rhythm at a volume that they could not possibly censor from the broadcast.
Ólafur:
Language, Tom, language.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Kip:
Language. Football fans are known for being calm and polite, PG-rated people.
Tom:
Also, that game ended in a draw. I'm trying to work out, you said nil-nil for... three separate sections, or three sections of the game?
Kip:
Three different periods of the game.
Tom:
Yeah.
Kip:
I will help you and say it wasn't nil-nil the whole way through. There were goals.
Ólafur:
I know that because you said three separate sections, it was nil-nil... What if the game wasn't played in one fell swoop? So it was played in a section, then there's a nil-nil, there is another section.
Carson:
Cancelled for weather or something like that?
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Tom:
Was there a bad weather event or something? September 24th?
Ólafur:
Because then they have to reset it in a certain way that in those three separate sections, it was nil-nil, but then...
Tom:
Oh yeah, but Kip said there were goals.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Tom:
And none were disallowed, which is... bizarre.
Ólafur:
Because it may be like the goal wasn't disallowed, but the game was cancelled. So the goal stands for number of goals scored, or any kind of that thing. But for the game, the goal didn't count.
Tom:
I'm going to put this one out there just to rule it out... that whoever was running the graphics was just wrong.
SFX:
(Ólafur and Kip laugh)
Tom:
There was just someone in the graphics department who fat fingered a number, and just desperately panicking to get it right, just keeps showing it for a while.
Ólafur:
We actually, we have three language people here on the podcast now. Why is it nil?
Carson:
I think that's an old way of saying no. Because Dutch zero is nul.
Tom:
Mhm.
Carson:
And then... if you've researched the null hypothesis...
Tom:
Yeah, but why is it stuck around in sport, and only really a couple of sports?
Carson:
Not sure.
Kip:
The original football was always just win or lose. There was no score. It was, could you get the ball to the other town?
Tom:
Oh, yes.
Ólafur:
Mhm.
Kip:
It was actually banned during the Civil War because there were too many deaths during football.
Tom:
Wow!
Kip:
Yeah, it was a very dangerous point. Lots of people killed each other. It is less violent than it was.
Ólafur:
So this happened relatively recently. This is September 2024.
Tom:
Yeah.
Ólafur:
So, did anything else happen? Like another event that is causing the football match to be, you know, upended?
Kip:
I will help you and point out the entire match was played in one day.
Tom:
In one day? But not necessarily in one go?
Kip:
Well, in one go. This was not a postponement. It was not a re— It was not— The match was not abandoned.
Tom:
I wonder what the three periods are. You said there were three periods.
Ólafur:
Mhm.
Tom:
So, I don't know, for... It feels cheating. Carson, you said early on, first half, second half, and first half of extra time.
Carson:
Mhm.
Ólafur:
Second half of extra time. And then you have the shootout, if nothing happens.
Tom:
So... I mean, technically I guess, it could be first half, second half, then they go to 1-1. And then it gets reset for penalties? But that seems just like a normal game of soccer.
Carson:
The only other periods in a game I could think of were right after COVID, they had water breaks in between each half. But this was last month, right? So, as of recording.
Tom:
Hold on. Did they miss every penalty kick?
Kip:
No.
Tom:
Aggh! I thought I had it there. I thought I was being really clever.
Kip:
I would continue going back to your thoughts of the penalty shootout. It is nothing to do with first half, second half, extra time.
Tom:
Was it the longest penalty shootout in English history? Or something like that?
Kip:
EFL 3rd Cup history.
Carson:
They go to sudden death, right? So the first one to make one and the other team misses, then that's the end, so... They must have gone on for however long... for sudden death.
Ólafur:
'Cause Tom's ideas of, did they just miss every? Did they just miss every? Forever until after 35 minutes?
Kip:
So Tom is right in that it was the longest penalty shootout in this... in English Football League Cup history.
Tom:
Wow.
Kip:
So what then might that have done?
Tom:
Oh my god!
Kip:
(snickers)
Tom:
The scoreboard only goes up to 9-9. They don't have a second digit on it.
Kip:
It goes up to 15-15 actually.
Tom:
Okay.
Ólafur:
(giggles)
Carson:
And then it reset?
Tom:
And they're scoring them all. Or they're matching ball for ball. Like one team scores, the other team scores. One team misses, the other team misses.
Ólafur:
It was the opposite, they were excellent. They're great at this.
Tom:
Yeah. They've just matched each other for so long that the scoreboard has flipped all the way around to zero. You didn't even say television scoreboard!
Ólafur:
No, no, no. It was implied. And I also love, we had everything, like: It was 35 minutes. It was record breaking. Went back to zero. It was all there.
Carson:
It was like, so it's like that scene from The Simpsons, when Homer's pumping gas, and it goes like $999. And then it resets to zero.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ólafur:
(chuckles) Free gas.
Tom:
Okay, so, hang on. What were the three periods?
Kip:
So, on the 17th of September 2024, the match began 0-0, as it always does. The regular game finished one-all.
Since this was an elimination-format cup match that needed one winner, the score was reset to nil-nil for penalties. What followed was the longest penalty shootout in English Football League Cup history, with some players having to take a second turn. When the score reached 14-14, with one miss each, the graphics reset and returned to 0-0 once again.
The broadcast graphics had been programmed to cope with up to 15 shots taken. Preston eventually won 16-15, knocking Fulham out of the cup and making my Preston North End supporting husband very happy.
SFX:
(Tom and Ólafur laugh)
Tom:
This next question is from Daniel W. Thank you, Daniel.
James needs to make ice cream. He collects an ingredient from the ground floor, carries it to an elevator, and places it down with a note. He then presses the '3' button, exits the elevator quickly, and runs up the stairs instead. Why?
And I'll say that again.
James needs to make ice cream. He collects an ingredient from the ground floor, carries it to an elevator, and places it down with a note. He then presses the '3' button, exits the elevator quickly, and runs up the stairs instead. Why?
Kip:
I mean, I had a colleague who used to do this.
Tom:
Oh.
Kip:
But that was because she was scared of lifts and claustrophobic. I'm not sure if it's the same thing.
Tom:
(laughs uproariously) I thought you had the answer right away there!
Kip:
No, sadly not. I don't think the answer is going to be that he's claustrophobic.
Ólafur:
I know one fun way to make ice cream is that you get this kind of football, and you can open it, and you can put all the ingredients in, and then you close the football. And are they then pressing the elevator, so the elevator goes up, but the football falls down the shaft? 'Cause what you need to do is you need to kick it around and shake it to get— to make ice cream. So are they using gravity to make ice cream?
Tom:
I've seen one of those. I think the intention is that you let the kids blow off some steam in summer by getting them to make the ice cream. (chuckles)
Kip:
(cracks up)
Tom:
Just put the ingredients in, put some ice around it. I think it's ice and salt around it to get it super cool. And then you just kind of close it up, give it to the kids, and say, "Yep, play with the ball for half an hour. You'll be exhausted, and there'll be ice cream."
Ólafur:
It's like the perfect solution.
Tom:
(laughs) That ball would need to be kicked around for a lot more than one drop from height.
Ólafur:
It's also talking about getting an ingredient from the ground floor.
Tom:
Yes.
Ólafur:
In my head, that's mushroom. That's probably not the case.
SFX:
(Tom and Kip laugh)
Ólafur:
That's the basement thing, right?
Kip:
In my head, it's a freezer.
Ólafur:
Ah, yeah.
Carson:
Was it maybe ice or snow? Was it snowing, so they went outside to get the snow? That would be a snow cone, not ice cream.
Tom:
Would be a valid ingredient for some stuff there, but in that case, why would he leave it in the elevator and run up the stairs?
Carson:
You said floor three is when he got out, right? Is three significant? Why would he get out then?
Tom:
Just to get the timeline right: collects an ingredient from the ground floor, carries it to an elevator, places it down in the elevator with a note, then presses three and leaves the elevator.
Carson:
Just a delivery, like a DoorDash?
SFX:
(Tom and Kip laugh)
Ólafur:
Yeah. Because it's going to stop on some way. There's a store, and they're going to put the stuff in, and then it's going to continue up.
Kip:
Don't get my local courier driver any ideas.
SFX:
(Tom and Ólafur chuckle)
Kip:
Is it specific to him for not getting in the lift, or nobody allowed in the lift? We haven't worked out if the lift is at -20 degrees or something. I've never seen a lift do that, but... I've also never made ice cream on a commercial level, so... (chuckles)
Ólafur:
Yeah, 'cause also that's a very short amount of time to make ice cream. You put a thing in, you press a button on the elevator, it's up there in, I don't know, a few seconds. That's not enough to make ice cream. So there's something on the way, or... Because I'm thinking the note is for someone. Someone is going to receive it and do something and then continue on.
Kip:
I guess the other one that I can think of is he doesn't fit in the lift with the ingredient. But that feels a little bit simple.
Tom:
There is plenty of space available in this lift.
Ólafur:
Because you also said that you press a button. Because I'm thinking, is it a strange elevator? And the only strange elevator I remember is the one you covered, Tom, that is continually going—
Tom:
Oh... Which one? I had a whole elevator series.
SFX:
(Tom and Kip giggle)
Ólafur:
You should have an elevator playlist, right?
Tom:
Yep.
Ólafur:
The one that continues up and around, that doesn't stop. But then you wouldn't press a button.
Tom:
This is just a normal elevator. Although, James is working in a fancy restaurant.
Ólafur:
It's a vanilla elevator. There we go.
Tom:
Eyy!
Carson:
So is it—
Ólafur:
Eyy!
Carson:
Is it a restaurant with multiple floors? The kitchen is below, and it needs to go up with a note, maybe what table it goes to? And then a waiter picks it up on the third floor?
Tom:
It's just an ingredient for ice cream, this.
Kip:
Okay, so what goes in ice cream? You've got the custard. Sugar, ice.
Ólafur:
Milk, cream, sugar. Yeah, ice.
Kip:
Flavourings.
Ólafur:
Frozen berries from the freezer on the first floor.
Carson:
Well, yeah, then maybe whatever it is, it's stored on the ground, and then goes up to the third floor where the kitchen is on the third floor instead.
Tom:
Yes. And there is a good reason for that.
Ólafur:
Oh, I'm wondering if this is a strange location. If where it is, it would make sense. Is this the Arctic or the Antarctic, and the ground floor is all the stuff, but you have to have the kitchen on the upper floors, because the ground is too cold for having a kitchen there?
Carson:
Or is it the opposite where the third floor is maybe open, in some tropical place, and they need to store all the cold stuff in a basement, because it'll melt on the top?
Tom:
I'm going to cut off this line of reasoning. It is, unfortunately, just a regular building in a regular city.
Ólafur:
You're not helping us, Tom.
Tom:
I'm not. But, okay. If you would like some help, have a think about why you might put a note in something like that. Why would you put a note down and leave the elevator and take the stairs?
Ólafur:
I mean, yeah, the obvious thing is it's for someone in the kitchen to make ice cream or to put something in.
Tom:
No, he's going up, and he's gonna pick up that ingredient at the top.
Kip:
Yeah, but people steal things very quickly.
Tom:
(laughs)
Kip:
They're obviously put off by handwritten notes saying, "Please don't eat this."
Carson:
Was it one of those social experiments where they leave a note, and see if someone would steal it, you know. Like they drop a wallet with some money hanging out. They leave a valuable ice cream ingredient, like vanilla, pretty expensive.
Tom:
The note is a warning.
Kip:
Don't steal this or else?
Tom:
I mean, he'd be in trouble if he did.
Ólafur:
Is it the base ingredient or one of the extra stuff you put in?
Tom:
(cackles) If I answer that question, you will unfortunately get it immediately.
Ólafur:
Let's try Tom's poker face, though. Is it sugar? Okay, let's look.
Tom:
If...
Ólafur:
(giggles)
Tom:
If James didn't follow this method... it could actually be quite dangerous for him or others.
Carson:
Something in a large amount or concentration has toxic fumes or something, but when you...
Ólafur:
No.
Carson:
Prepare it for ice cream, it's edible?
Tom:
I mean, toxic isn't the right word, but I think that might have been the clue that Ólafur needed.
Ólafur:
I think I know what this is.
Tom:
Yeah.
Ólafur:
Is this... What's the gas called again, where you... freeze something really quickly?
Tom:
Yeah, early on—
Kip:
Carbon dioxide.
Carson:
Like liquid nitrogen.
Ólafur:
Yeah, yeah.
Tom:
Yes.
Ólafur:
It's to fill on the third floor or whatever the floor is, the science lab to fill in the liquid nitrogen. Then you go upstairs to make ice cream.
Tom:
Ooh...
Carson:
It's a tub of liquid nitrogen that he puts in the elevator.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Tom:
Why?
Ólafur:
He doesn't want to be with it, because it could explode.
Tom:
Not explosive.
Kip:
No, but the nitrogen is... You suffocate.
Tom:
Yes.
Kip:
You shouldn't be in a contained space with liquid nitrogen. I've done much liquid nitrogen work in my life.
Tom:
So what does the note say?
Ólafur:
Don't enter the elevator.
Tom:
Yeah, Ólafur, you're right. It says, "Liquid nitrogen, do not enter."
Ólafur:
Mhm.
Tom:
And, yeah, you've got all the parts here. Very early on, Ólafur, you said, what's a fun way to make ice cream? And also, how do you make ice cream in a very short time? And I thought you'd got it immediately from those two things.
SFX:
(Tom and Ólafur laugh)
Tom:
Yes, this is James, who works in a fancy restaurant, a professional chef using liquid nitrogen to rapidly freeze the ice cream.
The liquid nitrogen is held in a storage tank on the ground floor because it's a very heavy storage tank that needs to be outside for safety. That's not a big hazard.
But it is an asphyxiant. It will displace the air. So as liquid nitrogen turns back into a gas, it'll expand rapidly. The oxygen will leave an enclosed space.
So you do not want to be in an elevator with bubbling liquid nitrogen, because you will asphyxiate and pass out and die. And the note is to say, don't board the elevator, you'll die.
Carson, we will go over to you for the next question, please.
Carson:
Excellent. (clears throat)
This question has been sent in by Nate.
In 2015, the RC Chocolat café in Arlanda Airport, Stockholm became well-known for starters. This allowed Swedes to enjoy a more stress-free holiday. Why?
I'll say it again.
In 2015, the RC Chocolat café in Arlanda Airport, Stockholm became well-known for starters. This allowed Swedes to enjoy a more stress-free holiday. Why?
Ólafur:
One linguistic thing. Starters as in, a starting dish?
Tom:
Yeah, like an appetizer. Or, 'cause I'm not sure that's a word outside British English. Starters as a first course in a meal. Or, is it like, 'for starters'? Which is also British slang, meaning at the beginning or first.
Ólafur:
I'm guessing this is a restaurant, and it's for starters, so it's the dish.
Tom:
Yeah.
Ólafur:
It's a Chocolat café, so it's chocolate café. So I'm guessing it's a dessert-y type of thing?
Tom:
Mhm.
Ólafur:
At least it goes in that direction.
Carson:
Keep talking. I'll say, if I answer... that, exactly,
Tom:
(laughs)
Carson:
I think it might be a little too quick. But I like what you're saying.
Tom:
You've got how the show works. Thank you very much.
Kip:
Why, so, Arlanda Airport, that's the one that's closer to Stockholm, isn't it? Skavsta is up in the middle of nowhere.
Tom:
Yes, yep.
Ólafur:
Yep.
Tom:
It's the airport that the cheap flights don't generally go into.
Kip:
That's why I've never been.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Kip:
It said Swedes to enjoy, which is slightly odd, considering it's an international airport.
Ólafur:
Oh, so here's the thing that I'm— at least the line that I'm going with. It allows the Swedes to have a stress-free vacation. And it's a café, or... some sort of restauranty thing. And allows them to have a more relaxing vacation. So it's something that they do for the people while they're away. It's my guess.
Tom:
Oh, that's true, because... unlike a lot of countries, if you're in a lot of Schengen Zone airports... when you return, if you're coming from the Schengen Zone, you just mingle with regular passengers.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Tom:
The US has a strict departing and arrivals distinction. The UK has that as well. But, Schengen, you could drop something off at the café... and pick it up on the way back.
Ólafur:
Yeah, are they ordering something, and then when they come back after ordering the thing, like, "Oh, we're back from the vacation. We now have the thing for our party or that..."
Carson:
You're getting pretty close, but it's not something they order.
Tom:
Okay.
Kip:
Do they have things delivered... there? Because it says Swedes to have a stress-free vacation. Can you kind of post your... mail? If we've got a non British English audience? Things that you bought on holiday to them and to collect them on your way out or drop it off in advance? 'Cause it's very specific. It says Swedes. It doesn't say passengers to the airport.
Carson:
It's not something they get on their holiday, but something they leave behind when they go to their holiday.
Ólafur:
And it's something that they then grab when they come back.
Kip:
Car keys?
Tom:
Oh, yes! Yes, because that's what you start a car with! That's the infuriating pun, is that you start a car with car keys!
Ólafur:
That's why he didn't want to answer it.
Carson:
That's clever, but that's not it.
Tom:
Ohhh!
Carson:
It is some kind of starter.
SFX:
(Tom and Kip laugh)
Carson:
But it's not a car starter. It is food related, but it's actually not about what the café makes.
Tom:
Okay. Oh, I thought we were really clever there, Kip.
Ólafur:
That was so good.
Carson:
That was pretty good.
Kip:
So proud.
Ólafur:
Mhm.
Carson:
But it's that same kind of thinking, but it's not that.
Kip:
Come on, Tom. Backsolve.
Ólafur:
I'm giving you one virtual point for that one.
Carson:
Go back to still thinking about... what a café might do.
Tom:
Alright, what do you want to drop off and pick up? Because you'd have to take it through security. That's the thing, this would—
Kip:
Do we know that, though? You said it's at Arlanda Airport. Do we know it's through security?
Carson:
I mean, it might be landside. I will say this is something that other cafes around the city, not necessarily in the airport, also do.
Ólafur:
Because I'm thinking, the thing that, when you're travelling, or something like you don't want, is... the stuff will melt. And— Or cakes will not, yeah, hold well. So it's something that they do for you, hold them, freeze them. Then when you come back, you...
Carson:
It's not cake or melting, but that's a good line of thinking.
Tom:
Is it sourdough starters?
Carson:
Sourdough starters.
Kip:
Ah!
Carson:
Yes. Specifically sourdough.
Ólafur:
Yeah, there we go.
Tom:
Okay, so... They're looking after people's—
Ólafur:
Ohhh! Yeah. Yeah, 'cause you have to feed them.
Carson:
Yes, you got— Exactly.
Tom:
Okay, someone who knows about bread, fill me in here, Ólafur?
Ólafur:
Yeah, 'cause you... It's a basic bread mixture. But then with the yeast and all the stuff, but you have to then keep feeding it. I always think of it as a little monster that you have to keep alive.
Carson:
Yes, so it says specific to Swedes because they have quite... apparently quite a culture of making their own sourdough.
Tom:
(wheezes)
Carson:
And so this particular café, RC Chocolat... I don't speak Swedish. I'm not sure how they would say it, but RC Chocolat café, as well as others around the city, they said... they're not necessarily the first ones to do this, but you can bring your sourdough starters and drop it off at a sourdough starter hotel, where they will take care of it, feed it, and massage it for you while you're on vacation until you come back.
As a matter of fact, they have a sourdough starter support group on Facebook that now has almost 600,000 followers.
Tom:
They do bread sitting! That's amazing!
Carson:
Pretty much, yes.
Ólafur:
That's so good.
Tom:
Lovely. We'll move on to the next one.
In the early days of computing, when programs were stored on punched cards, errors were a common occurrence. How were small mistakes typically corrected, and what modern term did this practice inspire?
I'll give you that one more time.
In the early days of computing, when programs were stored on punched cards, errors were a common occurrence. How were small mistakes typically corrected, and what modern term did this practice inspire?
Kip:
I'd say I want it to be a hole punch.
Tom:
(chuckles softly)
Carson:
Well, I would say hole filling. 'Cause if you punch an extra hole, and you just put a piece of white tape over it, and... I'm not sure a hole filling is really that much of a common phrase though.
Ólafur:
Is this error correction? That's what I'm thinking. 'Cause you have—
Tom:
Someone who literally does videos on technology here.
Ólafur:
Yeah. 'Cause what you— So what you can do is you can... You can duplicate the data. And then you can – from the duplicates – you can kinda deduce a number of errors. So based on how you set up the structure of the data, if you have one punch card or many... if you detect an error... you can fix one of them if you do that. So you can have the... It's usually called parity bits, they're used in hard drives.
Is that the area that I'm going, or is this more lateral?
Tom:
That is a very technical way of doing it. And it's honestly a lot of effort compared to the actual solution.
Kip:
So my hole punch is not a huge step up.
SFX:
(Tom and Kip laugh)
Kip:
I should have paid more attention when my parents told me about being at university and talked about making punch cards. I'm sorry, parents. So... For the not quite a hole punch generation... what sort of cards... Were they actually just made out of card?
Ólafur:
Yeah, there's physical cards, and you punched them out with something similar to a hole punch. Usually you would have a machine. It looks like a typewriter. You type on it. And each card is usually a statement or two, and then you can stack them together. You number them up, and you feed them to the machine... and you hope that you don't trip over something and drop them on the floor. And then you'll have a bad afternoon.
Kip:
So, we're either looking then at ones where you needed to... add another hole, or as Carson said, fill a hole in, in some way. So what could we use for that? I 'unno, Tippex? I don't know. Sellotape?
Ólafur:
I think tape isn't strong enough, because these are really... they're pretty thick, these cards. So tape over it. It's like when we taped the VHS... 'Cause I think the sensor for that one is just a little touch sensor. But for these, they're actually going through the holes to check what's there. So I don't know if tape would work. I know that the first bug was an actual bug.
Carson:
Mhm.
Ólafur:
In...
Carson:
I've heard that, yeah.
Ólafur:
Yeah. I don't think it was punch card. I don't think it was in between the brackets of an old machine.
Tom:
I have a horrible feeling that that's a story that's become a little apocryphal over time. I think it's more— I think there was a bug, but I think it was... I think the term was already in use there.
Ólafur:
Probably, yeah. 'Cause there's a photo somewhere. Someone highlighted it and pointed to it, and it's a bug.
Tom:
Yes. First time we found an actual physical bug.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Tom:
You're thinking about updating one hole here, but Ólafur, you were talking about the typewriter. If someone missed a key, or missed a couple of keys, you might have to update a few holes on a card.
Carson:
Could you just redo the whole card?
Tom:
Oh, well, you could, but that would probably be more effort, because you'd have to get the numbers right and everything.
Kip:
It's not cut and paste or something, is it?
Tom:
You're getting closer with that.
Ólafur:
Because the cards— The machine doesn't care about what's— how the card was made. It just cares that it's a card, and that it has the holes. So if you have a card, that only has part of your statements, almost everything, right? And you're fixing it, you can then cut it, right? And then glue it together on another bit. Like you want part of A and a little part of B.
Carson:
Or you can cut a new hole if you're missing a hole, or paste and fill in a hole if it's one too many.
Tom:
So what computing term could that give us?
Ólafur:
Oh, patching!
Tom:
Yes!
Ólafur:
Yeah, patching is when you're updating a bit of software. It's anything between... You can do diffs of binaries, or you can do... updating sections, and... It's actually a pretty complicated thing to do, because if you have a big binary, and you want to fix it, something you run on the computer... it's a patch of zeros and ones. And now there should be slightly different zeros and ones. So which zeros and ones are the same after the patch, and which zeros and ones are not the same after the patch? So you'd have to do a... a walkthrough and find out.
So I can imagine that you... if you have these cards, and you're cutting and pasting all these things, that you are patching them together, right?
Tom:
Yep, so, I mean, it may be something as simple as just putting some tape over and punching holes through that again, or it could be that there was another bit of card on top that was applied as a patch.
But the computing term 'patch', for a minor software update, does literally come from applying patches to punched cards, just 'cause you can't bother to write out the whole thing again.
Ólafur, over to you.
Ólafur:
Alright, thank you.
This question has been sent in by Moritz Lauer. Thank you.
The University of Kiel – a city on Germany's Baltic Sea coast – tried to reduce a cleaning bill of €70,000 per year by purchasing three robotic lawnmowers. What was the idea?
Let me go again.
The University of Kiel – a city on Germany's Baltic Sea coast – tried to reduce a cleaning bill of €70,000 per year by purchasing three robotic lawnmowers. What was the idea?
Kip:
To mow a lawn?
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Kip:
I've just got to get in there. (laughs)
Ólafur:
Yeah, you have to. You have to, right?
Tom:
We don't have QI klaxons going off on this show, but it feels like they should be doing it at this point.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Kip:
And I would have said it anyway, even if there was a klaxon.
Tom:
Yes! (laughs)
Kip:
So, I mean, I got the wrong Kiel immediately from the first part of the question.
Tom:
Yeah.
Kip:
I suppose there is... if it's on the Baltic Sea, there's seaweed attached to things. But I wouldn't have thought a lawnmower would be very good for that.
Tom:
It's also a cleaning bill.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Carson:
Is it possible that these lawn mowing machines, they also have a vacuum to pull up the yard trimmings that they would normally cut? So they use that vacuum effect for other stuff around the campus?
Ólafur:
That would be pretty cool. I like seeing these little... If anything is about futurism, anytime I see one of these robotic lawnmowers in some lawn, that's like a signal for me of like, "Oh, we're in the future now. This is coming now."
Tom:
(laughs) Yeah, it's just like... I mean, it's a stupid thing to say, but it's like one of those robot vacuum cleaners, but just with a giant blade spinning underneath it, instead of a vacuum. I don't think they normally have a vacuum built in. I think they normally just—
Carson:
Yeah, and if they didn't need to cut grass or seaweed, why wouldn't they just use the vacuum cleaner?
Tom:
Right.
Carson:
So...
Kip:
What would you need to clean? Because 70,000 euros kinda feels like a specialist's salary to me.
Tom:
Oh yeah.
Kip:
So it feels like they're replacing a person.
Ólafur:
Hm?
Kip:
So what could a person be cleaning?
Ólafur:
There was one thing because you mentioned the seaweed. That is a path. Not a really good one, but it is a path.
SFX:
(Tom and Kip laugh)
Ólafur:
If you want.
Kip:
Such a backhanded compliment, innit?
Carson:
So maybe it's not seaweed itself, but maybe it's something to do with the ocean air, like the salty air or something corrosive or... seagull... bird... seagull droppings.
Tom:
Oh?
Carson:
But how would a lawnmower clean that?
Tom:
I was going to say, I don't like the idea of deploying a lawnmower to get— to deal with the seagulls.
Carson:
Did the lawnmowers scare seagulls away?
Ólafur:
There we go.
Carson:
To prevent them.
Tom:
Ohh!
Kip:
Well done.
Ólafur:
Well done. There we go. The lawnmowers are used as motorised scarecrows.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Ólafur:
So yeah, being located near the Baltic, Kiel has a very large seagull population. The birds nest on the university's flat roofs, and they pay up to 70,000 euros every year for the removal of the seagull, erm, stuff.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ólafur:
The facility adorned the mowers with colourful tape and metal springs. The mowers drove autonomously over the roofs of the affected buildings, like moving scarecrows, to discourage the birds from nesting.
Tom:
Which leaves us with the question from the top of the show.
Thank you to Kevin for sending this one in.
How did Fintan bank £1,000 on a British quiz show, for a question he couldn't even guess at?
Before I give the audience the answer, does anyone want to take a shot at that?
Kip:
Is it The Weakest Link? It's the only one I can think of where you used to bank before the question.
Tom:
It's not The Weakest Link.
Carson:
Did he just take a random guess and get it right, or...
Tom:
No, he couldn't even guess it.
Ólafur:
I'm wondering if it's like... He couldn't guess it. That's the point. That he wasn't supposed to. The answer is a silence. You're not supposed to say anything.
Carson:
Right, like that riddle from The Hobbit. if you speak my name, I am gone. What am I?
Ólafur:
Yeah. (chuckles)
Tom:
This was on The Chase.
Kip:
Oh, yes! I was on The Chase.
Tom:
(laughs)
Kip:
And we all didn't get back, and we had that process, so I really should have...
Tom:
Okay.
Kip:
Yes.
Tom:
What's the first round? What did you go through there?
Kip:
Cash Builder.
Tom:
Talk— What happens in that round?
Kip:
So you have one minute for general knowledge questions, and you bank £1,000 for each correct answer.
Tom:
Yes, and Fintan banked £1,000 on a question he couldn't even guess at.
Kip:
Oh, did he give... Was it one of those where he said "I don't know", and that was actually the answer? 'Cause we had an Only Connect question like that, where the answer was "Next".
Tom:
(laughs) Yes, a little shorter than that.
Kip:
Pass.
Tom:
(laughs) Now, is that... Are you passing on my question, or is that the correct answer?
Ólafur:
I love method jokes like that.
Tom:
Yes, this was a 2023 episode of The Chase in the UK. And the question was: "In computer security, what word can go before code, phrase, and word?"
Ólafur:
Pass.
Tom:
And Fintan had absolutely no idea, and he said "Pass" and got £1,000 for it. Which is exactly the sort of question that just occasionally the team there will put in.
So, congratulations to all our players on running the gauntlet. Thank you very much for being part of the show.
What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you?
We will start with Ólafur.
Ólafur:
I'm on the internet. You can find me. You can yell at me. YouTube, ÓlafurW, or any of the social medias.
Kip:
Kip. I'm on pretty much any social media, as Kip Heath.
Tom:
And Carson.
Carson:
I'm on TikTok every day as @woodyling, YouTube as woodyling, and Professor Woody & Mr. Ford.
Tom:
And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Carson Woody.
Carson:
Thank you for having me. It's been great to be here.
Tom:
Kip Heath.
Kip:
Thanks, everyone.
Tom:
Ólafur Waage.
Ólafur:
Pus.
Tom:
(blurts laugh) I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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