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Episode 127: Canadian incense
Published 14th March, 2025
Sabrina Cruz, Melissa Fernandes and Taha Khan from 'Answer in Progress' face questions about serial stabbing, political pacts and cellist coordination.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Joni Digby, Nick VanAcker, Nate, Colin, Gary C.. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
On what object do some people spell out the message "Warning: this is proof I have the patience to stab something 1,000 times"?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
(soft voice) Here in the dense undergrowth of the modern media landscape, we encounter one of the Internet's most remarkable creatures... the podcaster. These three specimens, which we've been tracking for several days, belong to the species Answerin progressia.
SFX:
(Sabrina and Melissa giggle)
Tom:
What makes the species truly remarkable is its unusual habitat. We must remain very quiet now as they inch through the nest of cables and wires towards their chosen prey: the microphone.
And if we listen carefully, we can hear their distinctive call.
"Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe."
Sabrina:
No​! (giggles)
Tom:
It's a rare privilege to observe this in the wild.
Hoping that the questions today aren't going to be too beastly, we have the team from Answer in Progress, who to be fair, are not actually podcasters. But you know what? That's what I have my script, so that's what I was gonna read.
SFX:
(Sabrina and Melissa laugh)
Taha:
Yeah.
Tom:
Sabrin​a Cruz, welcome back to the show. How are you doing?
Sabrina:
I'​m doing so good. Or should I whisper? So good.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
What's​ going on with you at the moment? How is the channel going? What are you working on?
Sabrina:
Ch​annel's going great. I'm currently in the process of learning stenography.
Tom:
Oh, wow! That is a big challenge. I know someone who's tried that, and yeah. You learning full chorded keyboard stuff?
Sabrina:
Ye​ah. Yeah. So I got one. I got one of those keyboards. I'm currently learning it. You know what? I'm also currently trying to learn the piano. And I'll tell you this, the piano is harder.
SFX:
(group laughs)
Tom:
Okay. Best of luck with both of those and with the show.
Also with us, another third of Answer in Progress, and I'm phrasing it like that because last time I said the second third, and I got called out for it.
Taha Khan, welcome back to the show.
Taha:
Wahey​! I'm back.
SFX:
(Sabrina and Melissa laugh)
Tom:
What are you working on for the show at the moment? Can you— Why is that getting a laugh?
Taha:
I don't know.
Tom:
Taha, what are you working on at the minute for... Can you even talk about it? Do you know what it is?
Taha:
Yes. I do this time. I'm working on a series of videos... about how the phone interacts with us and society. Unclear exactly what that'll amalgamate into, but that's what I'm working on.
Sabrina:
Re​ally shows the range on the channel.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Are you learning anything that requires huge amounts of physical skill? Or is that just not your wheelhouse for this channel?
Taha:
No. I like to be chronically online. So I think the challenge will be to not to be chronically online as part of it.
Tom:
Good luck with not being chronically online and also with the show today.
The final player today, also, of course, from Answer in Progress: Melissa Fernandes, welcome back.
Melissa:
He​llo! I was gonna say welcome to you, but... I'm a guest.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
That's​ okay. You know what? No one has ever done that!
Sabrina:
Wh​en we're on the show, it's our show. It's Lateral with Answer in Progress.
Taha:
Yeah,​ featuring Tom Scott.
Melissa:
He​llo.
Tom:
This is marked as episode 127 on my list, and no one has ever welcomed me to the show before. You know what? Thank you very much, Melissa. What are you working on at the minute?
Melissa:
Yo​u're welcome!
I'm working on two projects I'm excited about. One is kind of similar to Sabrina's. I'm trying to learn fancy handwriting. It's not exactly calligraphy, but... I don't know. Pretty writing. I'm trying to make my writing look nicer.
Sabrina:
Sh​e just wants to look good on Pinterest.
SFX:
(Tom and Melissa laugh)
Melissa:
An​d something that I'm finishing up right now is a documentary about curry.
Tom:
Ooh.
Melissa:
An​d that's been in the works for several months. So I'm excited to finish that up soon.
Tom:
Good luck to all three of our players. As I'm a creature of habit, I'm going to start you off with question one.
Thank you to Colin for sending in this question.
To help Canadians save money, the government recommends that they burn incense sticks. Why?
I'll say that again.
To help Canadians save money, the government recommends that they burn incense sticks. Why?
Taha:
Yeah,​ why guys? Why are you guys doing that?
Sabrina:
St​inky.
Melissa:
Go​od luck? Good vibes, good fortune? Get rid of the bad fortune. Bring in the good. I don't know. That just makes sense, no? Is that a little too woowoo for the government?
Sabrina:
It​'s to save money though.
Taha:
Is incense cheaper than...
Sabrina:
Ha​ve you purchased incense at any point, Taha? 'Cause I haven't. I'm not even asking Melissa. I simply assume that she has.
Taha:
Yeah,​ I agree.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
I didn't know if you were assuming that Melissa had or hadn't there.
Sabrina:
(giggles)
Taha:
Melis​sa, yeah, you've definitely bought incense.
Sabrina:
Ca​n you tell us how much it costs? How much does that cost compared to a candle? You're the master of smells.
Taha:
Yeah.
Melissa:
Th​at's true. Oh my goodness. Wait a second. That's why, 'cause it's cheaper.
Taha:
You made a video on candles, so tell me more.
Melissa:
Ok​ay, if you go to... a non-yassified shop... (cracks up)
Sabrina:
(giggles)
Melissa:
th​en it's not gonna be $18.
Tom:
Sabrin​a is just grinning because she was entirely correct that Melissa not only buys incense sticks, but also knows the rough price of them.
Taha:
Yeah,​ and also has opinions about the different shops you can buy 'em from.
Tom:
Yeah.
Melissa:
We​ll, because if you go to get one that is the more commercialized incense, it's gonna be $18 for 11 sticks. But if you go to... if you...
Taha:
11? Is that...
SFX:
(Sabrina and Melissa laugh)
Taha:
I found it weird that eggs are sold by the dozen.
Sabrina:
Th​ere's a baker's dozen.
Taha:
Yeah.​ Okay.
Sabrina:
An​d then there's a yassified dozen.
Tom:
Follow​ up Lateral question: Why are incense sticks sold in pack of 11? We don't know, but that sounds like a Lateral question.
Melissa:
Bu​t then if you go to the other shops that are less corporate, they're gonna be much, much cheaper. But either way, they make your place smell—
Sabrina:
Ok​ay, so how much cheaper?
Melissa:
I don't know, 'cause I haven't physically bought that myself. I've only been given that.
Sabrina:
Sh​e only buys it at the yassified shops!
Taha:
You'r​e a corporate sellout!
Melissa:
To​ be fair actually, I've never paid for it. I've used my points, okay?
Taha:
Wow.
Melissa:
Wi​th my membership to this place. So I've never actually bought it, but I know—
Sabrina:
I'​m learning a lot about Melissa this episode.
Melissa:
Bu​t I know— But I know the value of them. If I did use my credit card. Or debit card.
Tom:
And a note from David the producer: Incense sticks are sold in odd numbers because those are associated with yang energy in Chinese culture.
Taha:
Wow.
Sabrina:
Hm​m. Okay, let's assume that the Canadian... Was it the Canadian government who is recommending this?
Tom:
Yes, yes.
Sabrina:
So​, hmm, interesting. Why do people... Why... Why do people use incense?
Melissa:
Gu​ys, I told you. For the vibe.
SFX:
(Melissa and Sabrina giggle)
Taha:
For the vibes. Yeah, wait.
Sabrina:
I just don't think there's a government mandated vibe.
Melissa:
I know.
SFX:
(Tom and Sabrina chuckle)
Taha:
Yeah,​ and that's what's wrong with society these days.
Tom:
I don't want the government mandating my vibes.
Taha:
No one runs on a vibes-based platform. It's always policy this, economics that.
Sabrina:
(snickers) Okay, this is a weird direction my brain is going, but I'm choosing to lean into it, given the nature of the show. Smoking.
Taha:
You'r​e gonna smoke your incense stick? That's crazy!
Sabrina:
No​, no, no, no, no, no. But you know... it kinda sets a vibe. It's not the same vibe as smoking. But if you like smoke in the air.
Melissa:
So​ you're like, cigarettes are expensive?
Sabrina:
Al​so bad for the economy with the long-term health conditions. 'Cause we do have nationalized healthcare.
Melissa:
Oh​ my gosh, what if, what if, what if... This is going really off the deep end here, but I'm thinking. You know how, you know, baking has gotten really expensive these days. if you wanna make some— (cracks up)
Taha:
Okay.
Sabrina:
Ke​ep going.
Melissa:
If​ you wanna make some chocolate chip cookies, it's like $50 if you wanna get good, good ingredients, you know what I mean?
Taha:
No, but continue.
Melissa:
So​ it makes your place smell nice. So, so that you don't spend that money on...
Sabrina:
Yo​u think the Canadian government said...
Taha:
Yeah.
Sabrina:
Wa​it, when did this take place, Tom?
Tom:
I don't actually have a year for this. It doesn't matter too much.
Taha:
Okay.
Tom:
I would assume this century.
Sabrina:
In​teresting, as a Canadian— I should say, we are two Canadians, Melissa and I. We've never heard the government tell us to go buy incense. (wheezes)
Melissa:
I never.
Tom:
But Sabrina, you did jump to the right reason for it.
Melissa:
Sm​oking.
Sabrina:
Sm​oke.
Taha:
Smoki​ng.
Tom:
Not smoking. But that's what incense sticks do. They do produce smoke.
Sabrina:
Fi​res. Candles started too many fires. They're like, enough with the candles, guys. We gotta use incense sticks.
Tom:
You don't light candles for smoke.
Sabrina:
Oh​, we— so we want smoke?
Tom:
Mm.
Taha:
Smoke​— Okay, what are some smoky rooms that you— someone would need to smoke up?
Sabrina:
Va​pe room. A middle school bathroom. Am I right? Topical!
SFX:
(Tom and Melissa laugh)
(group giggling)
Taha:
Okay.
Melissa:
Wa​it, follow your thought. I didn't follow you. I'm trying to come with you on this journey, but I dunno what you're saying.
Taha:
Incen​se, right? They use smoke. So, in what environments...? Restaurants? Maybe in restaurants that want to create an ambience. Ambiance?
Sabrina:
Bu​t the focus on smoke. I don't think that when they light incense in a restaurant, they're not like, "Ah, yeah, I wanna fill this with smoke." It's the smell. Are we looking at smoke or smell?
Tom:
Smoke,​ and have a think about some key household expenses.
Melissa:
Do​es it make people feel warmer?
Tom:
That is the right one.
Taha:
So, I'm gonna save money by using smoke.
Tom:
Yes.
Taha:
To smoke...
Sabrina:
Be​es?
Taha:
Yes.
Sabrina:
No​pe, it's not heat related.
Taha:
It's pest control.
Tom:
You've​ identified that it's heat, and you've identified the money is saved... in part by something that involves the smoke from the incense sticks.
Sabrina:
Oh​ god, this is gonna really reveal that we're not homeowners.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Sabrina:
We​ just... I don't know the things that go into heat. The thing just turns hot or cold when I turn a knob.
Tom:
For the best results, they should close all the doors and windows first before doing this.
Sabrina:
Is​ it to— okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Here's my... Is it to figure out... 'Cause you could follow smoke to find... You know how in riddles and stuff, where they're like, "Oh, we're in a trapped room. We must light a candle." And then you follow the smoke out to fresh air?
Melissa:
Oh​ my goodness.
Sabrina:
Is​ it to find leaks or something similar to that for your heating? But incense?
Tom:
Yep. I mean, the word you're stumbling around is draughts.
SFX:
Ohh.
Tom:
It is...
Sabrina:
Ag​ain, not a homeowner.
Tom:
The document was called "How to Locate Air Leaks", and it suggests that you might—
Taha:
Hey.
Sabrina:
He​y, Tom. Hey, Tom.
Taha:
Is—​ Hey.
Sabrina:
Th​at said leaks are right there.
Tom:
Yeah, okay, fine. Natural Resources Canada published a document called "Keeping the Heat In", and it says how to locate air leaks: Light two or three incense sticks, and then look at where the smoke goes.
Taha:
Hm.
Sabrina:
Th​at's hilarious.
Tom:
What's​ the reason it's cheaper? There is another way to find the cold spots in your house.
Taha:
Use a heat detector gun.
Tom:
Yep, infrared camera. But those are expensive to buy and expensive to rent. And there is a cheaper option, which is just to light some incense sticks.
Melissa:
Wo​w.
Taha:
That'​s incredible. Because I genuinely was making up the most silly and expensive way to do it. And just turns out that is the way to do it.
Tom:
I mean, you said heat gun, which is kind of the exact opposite of an infrared camera, but I know what you meant. Yes, this is a document from Natural Resources Canada who said –
Melissa:
Wo​w.
Tom:
– basically if you want a cheap alternative to using an infrared camera, just light some incense sticks.
Sabrina:
Th​at's neat!
Tom:
Each of the guests has brought a question with them.
We are gonna start today with Taha. Whenever you're ready.
Taha:
In what minor, but important, way did Storm Ciarán ruin the enjoyment of millions of people across Britain, on the morning of the 2nd of November 2023?
I'll say that again.
In what minor, but important, way did Storm Ciarán ruin the enjoyment of millions of people across Britain, on the morning of the 2nd of November 2023?
Melissa:
So​ it's gotta be minor, 'cause I don't know what this storm was. So something minor. So it can't be like, "Oh my gosh, my home got destroyed." 'Cause you know, that's pretty major. Minor, maybe the cows ran away (cracks up) so they couldn't be milked. And then everyone –
Sabrina:
I love your mind.
Melissa:
â€â€‹“ lost access to the milk.
Sabrina:
Ev​ery time you open your mouth, it fills me with joy!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Sabrina:
Ta​ha, is she right? Did she get it in one?
Melissa:
So​ the minor inconvenience is they couldn't make their morning cups of tea. And coffee.
Tom:
Oh yeah.
Sabrina:
It​'s so much more. You assume that they go... The British go straight from cow into teacup.
Melissa:
Yo​u don't need to pasteurize it. You don't need to pasteurize. It's not illeg— it's not—
Tom:
I'm not hearing this slander from a country with bagged milk, okay? I'm just not taking that.
Taha:
You are... so close, it is incredible.
Tom:
No, no!
Sabrina:
No​ way!
Melissa:
(chirps, squeaks)
Tom:
'Cause​ I was wracking my brain for what happened on the 2nd of November 20— I— Nothing, but the storm won't have taken out the whole country as I remember. It will have been a big storm, but it's not—
Sabrina:
We​ll again, you guys were around for this. Have you heard of Storm Ciarán?
Tom:
I've got a vague mem— We name our storms now. There's been a few of them. And I don't know what on earth... 'Cause it—
Sabrina:
Di​d it scare away sheep? Did it involve scaring away animals? And it's just inconvenient, 'cause you're like, "Oh no, all my sheep got mixed up with other sheep. No!"
Taha:
What I'll say, what I'll say is that... this is a case of wrong formula, right answer.
Tom:
(laughs heartily) Okay.
Melissa:
Th​e milk is gone.
Sabrina:
Th​e milk is the right answer?
Tom:
Oh, because we do put milk in tea in the mornings. So if there was a supply chain issue for that... then if you want to slightly spoil Britain's enjoyment in a minor, but important way, you stop us putting milk in our morning tea. That's actually a really good guess, Melissa.
Taha:
I think we're still on wrong formula, right answer.
Melissa:
(snorts)
Taha:
Right​, so, so...
Tom:
Okay.
Taha:
I think the ruin of, I think we—
Sabrina:
Wa​s it a power outage? A power outage could kill milk.
Taha:
I think you found what enjoyment was being ruined.
Tom:
Cup of tea.
Taha:
But then the formula is totally everything out— all your working out is incomprehensible.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Taha:
But somehow... you have found what was ruined.
Tom:
So on the morning of the 2nd of November 2023, for some reason, the morning cup of tea that millions of Britains have was disrupted somehow.
Taha:
Yeah.
Sabrina:
Wh​at do you need to make a cup of tea? Boiling water. Do you guys use electric kettles or gas kettle... gas...?
Tom:
Everyo​ne will be using electric kettles for this. We have 240 volts of power instead of 110. We have electric kettles, and we're proud of it damnit!
Sabrina:
Ve​ry niche form of national pride.
Tom:
Yeah.
Taha:
No. Living in Canada for one year was miserable because... it was just even hard to boil pasta 'cause you had to boil it from cold. It's annoying.
Tom:
We have an electric system that is much more likely to kill you if you get a shock from it. But the upside of that is that our kettles boil so much faster. You don't heat up pasta water on the stove. You heat up in the kettle, and then you pour that into the stove. It's faster.
Sabrina:
Wh​at?
Taha:
The way—
Melissa:
Yo​u boil water from boiled water to...
Tom:
Well, you don't need to— If you cook—
Melissa:
Wh​at is this?
Tom:
If you're cooking pasta, you can wait five minutes for it to heat up on the hob, or you can just run the kettle and put that in the saucepan instead.
Taha:
Yeah.
Tom:
I mean, none of this has to be relevant. The ingredients for making tea are tea, optionally milk and sugar, a mug, and some power to heat up the water.
Sabrina:
So​ could there have been a power disruption caused by a storm? Because it had to be minor, like a major supply chain issue wouldn't be.
Tom:
But with the exception of water and electricity, it's not like you go out every single day to buy one new teabag. Everything's in your cupboard, apart from the water and electricity, because you cannot go out and buy a bag of electric— That's a battery. You can go out and buy a bag of electricity.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Just should have described that with different words.
Taha:
So it was nothing to do with storm damage... or your utilities being affected.
Sabrina:
Do​ you enjoy a view while drinking a cup of coffee— tea? Sorry, I forgot.
Taha:
Yeah,​ how dare you even mention that drink in front of me.
Sabrina:
(laughs)
Melissa:
Is​ this something that happened to a lot of people or not that many people? It's like one person is disturbed by this inconvenience. Like the Queen was like, oh my— Wait, the Queen died at that point, no.
Sabrina:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom:
Little​ bit earlier than that. That is... it... I think it would be the King at that point, but I cannot remember the date that Queen Elizabeth II died. So... that's basically treason.
Sabrina:
I was go-karting when I learned she died. It was a crazy day.
Taha:
The Queen was dead by November.
Tom:
Oh, I was at a conference in New York with some other educational YouTube folks.
And there were a few Brits there, and... it was obvious what was happening. You know, the news readers were starting to wear dark clothing. And I just saw it on my phone, 'cause someone said, "Heads up, there's probably..."
I just kinda brought the Brits over and was like, "Does anyone have a video launching today?"
And one of 'em was like, "Yeah, yeah, I do!"
I'm like, "No you don't. No you don't."
Taha:
Pause​.
Tom:
Well, yeah. Well, also she was like, "It is sponsored."
I'm like, "The sponsor will be okay with you postponing this video. Now is not the time!"
Melissa:
Bu​t I was gonna say. Is it a bunch of people that are affected by it? Is it a couple of people? Because if it's a couple of people, or if it's one person... Maybe the wind, the gust of wind, hit their favorite teacup against the window, and then they couldn't drink the tea from their favorite cup.
Taha:
No, I would say that everyone who was in the radius of the storm was probably affected if they were having a cup of tea in the morning.
Melissa:
Wh​at would be inconvenient for you, Sabrina? With your morning... Replace tea with coffee, if you don't, you know. What would be an inconvenience to you?
Sabrina:
I mean, a little too hot.
Taha:
Oh?
Sabrina:
A li'l bit too rattly. What— Taha made a face when I said a little too hot.
Taha:
What could the storm affect?
Tom:
(gasps) Oh my god! The air pressure!
Sabrina:
Wh​at?!
Tom:
It's a storm. It's going to be low air pressure. Because that's what a storm is. Air pressure drops. And if air pressure drops, the boiling temperature of water drops too. That's why you can't make a good cup of tea on top of a mountain.
Melissa:
Wh​at?!
Tom:
This is a complaint that climbers have. You can't brew a good cup of tea if you go up to the top of... Ben Nevis or one of the big mountains because the air pressure is low enough that water boils at a lower temperature and the tea doesn't steep properly. If this was a massive storm, full on depression of atmosphere, it would lower the boiling temperature of water. You couldn't make as good a cup of tea.
Taha:
That is exactly right.
Melissa:
Wh​at?!
Sabrina:
Wo​w!
Taha:
Water​ could not boil hot enough to make a good cup of tea.
Sabrina:
Th​is, but also so deeply British that it's like, my water wasn't boiled at the right temperature!
SFX:
(group giggling)
Taha:
Yeah,​ I mean...
Melissa:
Wo​w.
Taha:
Imagi​ne making a cup of tea with just the hot water that comes out of your tap. That's just gross.
Tom:
Yeah.
Melissa:
Oh​, that's pretty gnarly. That sounds gnarly.
Sabrina:
Ye​ah, but also, I bet you that Taha is being hyperbolic. I feel like this was a question that Tom was uniquely positioned to answer as a science guy, but also as a person.
Tom:
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Sabrina:
(guffaws)
Tom:
Britis​h with weird nerd knowledge and also somewhere in the back of my head was gonna be that weird fact about brewing tea on a mountain.
Sabrina:
It​'s time that I reveal that I not infrequently kind of don't wait for my tea to steep. My English breakfast tea could be anywhere from a light cream color to desperately over steeped. Like black, you know, it's fine, it's whatever.
Taha:
Okay,​ you just didn't have to say that.
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Taha:
That'​s the crazy part. You could have just kept that to yourself.
Storm Ciarán was a major windstorm that first struck the UK on the 1st of November 2023. It was a major depression that brought heavy rainfall and winds over 90 miles an hour. But another effect was a record low pressure.
A study by the Royal Meteorological Society... I got there, got it in one.
Tom:
(laughs)
Taha:
Found​ that it was different enough to lower the boiling point of water by two degrees Celsius.
Sabrina:
Wh​at? That's nothing!
Tom:
That's​ not much. That's not much.
Sabrina:
(laughs)
Taha:
It's very important. Extracting the tannins in black tea requires water to be 100 degrees Celsius. The difference was significant enough that many tea drinkers would have been able to tell the difference.
Melissa:
Yo​u know, I kind of get it.
Taha:
I'll tell you what. Sabrina would not have been able to tell the difference. Because clearly, all of it is just the same to her.
Tom:
Thank you to Nate for sending in this question.
In 1985, during the Cold War, US President Ronald Reagan and the Soviet Union's Mikhail Gorbachev had a frank conversation. Reagan found a scenario where Gorbachev would agree to form a close military alliance with the US. What was it?
I'll say that again.
In 1985, during the Cold War, US President Ronald Reagan and the Soviet Union's Mikhail Gorbachev had a frank conversation. Reagan found a scenario where Gorbachev would agree to form a close military alliance with the US. What was it?
Melissa:
Gu​ys, I got no whimsical answers for this one.
Taha:
I've got— I have to say it right now, so that we can cross it off the list. There was a person there called Frank. And they both had a conversation with Frank, and it was a frank conversation.
Sabrina:
Th​ank you!
Tom:
Taha, I was so sure that you were about to drop the correct answer in there, that I was like, "Well, this question's gonna fall." It was just a pun. No, unfortunately no. They just had a very honest conversation.
Taha:
And there was a man named Honest.
Sabrina:
(wheezes)
Taha:
Okay.
Sabrina:
I know two things about Ronald Reagan. Jelly beans. And he's the devil.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Taha:
Okay,​ so, so Russia and... What's the other country? Oh, the USA.
Tom:
The US, yes.
Taha:
That'​s it.
Sabrina:
Th​e United States of America. (wheezes)
Taha:
Ah, USA, shmoo-SA. What are they doing these days?
SFX:
(Sabrina and Melissa giggle)
Taha:
Okay,​ so, so what were they... What were they on about at the time?
Sabrina:
So​ the Cold War was not a good time between these two places.
Taha:
No, no, but what I'm saying is that I thought they were... I thought, why would they ally, unless there was a third party to ally against? So it's a bit confusing to me, because I thought the two parties were in conflict.
Sabrina:
Al​iens.
Tom:
Sabrin​a, you've nailed it.
Sabrina:
Ha​-ha!
Melissa:
Wa​it, no!
Sabrina:
I'​m amazing!
Taha:
And the alien is called Frank! And I win!
Tom:
Keep talking. What was going on here, 1985?
Sabrina:
We​'ve got the Space Race going on, and they're like, what would— Okay, we don't like each other, but what's the one circumstance in which we would have to ally if we are going out to space and we find something?
Tom:
Yeah.
Sabrina:
Al​iens.
Taha:
Wow.
Tom:
Yeah, you're absolutely right. The two leaders actually apparently worked quite well together, despite the very, very different philosophies of their countries. They didn't have a specific threat in mind, but they just sort of agreed during the Geneva Summit that if Earth was invaded by aliens, the two nations would put aside their differences to defend the planet.
Taha:
So honourable of these two men. They must have such good moral character.
Tom:
Reagan​, obviously was an actor. He was a big fan of science fiction. So he probably just brought it up at some point, because it's the '80s. People are seeing lights in the sky. And he's just putting that on record, that if the aliens arrive, they will work together.
Melissa, it is over to you. Whenever you're ready.
Melissa:
Al​right, so this question has been sent in by Nick VanAcker.
Before leaving the house each morning, Paula attaches three circular objects to her shirt with a piece of clear tape. How does this help her achieve something important?
One more time.
Before leaving the house each morning, Paula attaches three circular objects to her shirt with a piece of clear tape. How does this help her achieve something important?
Taha:
She's​ a traffic light.
SFX:
(others laughing)
(Tom and Sabrina continue giggling)
Taha:
Solve​d. Next question, please.
Sabrina:
I like how you really rushed through it, in case anyone stole your answer.
Taha:
Hell yeah. I wanted to get it in one.
Sabrina:
Me​lissa, you didn't say no. (giggles) You didn't say no.
Melissa:
No​.
Tom:
I was thinking it's to ward off magpies. Because I've seen footage from Australia of magpies just attacking people as they walk under their nesting site. I'm like, if this is something shiny that disrupts magpies or something like them, that keeps her from doing her job?
Taha:
You'r​e too well travelled actually.
Sabrina:
(wheezes)
Tom:
I was just thinking wildlife defence, you know?
Sabrina:
Ok​ay, so three things. It needs to be adherable with clear tape. I'm assuming it's a clear tape that means that the image, the visual of the thing matters.
Tom:
Mhm.
Sabrina:
Is​ it something she has to do, or is she doing a public service? I really, the question was...
Melissa:
Ca​n you clarify your question? What do you mean by that?
Taha:
Wow, that means you're cooking.
Sabrina:
(snickers)
Taha:
That means you're on the right track.
Sabrina:
We​ll, it's like it could be something that's important to her. Like, you know... I don't know why my mind is going to echolocate, but... Okay, you know.
Melissa:
(snorts)
Sabrina:
Bu​t it could be something that helps her out personally, or it's because she is doing something for others, and she's acting in service of that. Her sign says, "Help— I'm here to help. I'm a tour guide. Welcome to New York City." Something like that. (wheezes)
Melissa:
Ok​ay, half of that was correct.
Sabrina:
Wh​ich half, we'll never know.
Tom:
(laughs)
Taha:
We'll​ never know.
Melissa:
Ok​ay, so the first half was right. It is something for herself.
Sabrina:
Ok​ay.
Taha:
Is it accessibility related?
Melissa:
Ye​ah, kind of, kind of.
Sabrina:
In​teresting.
Tom:
We haven't got the scale of these objects yet, right? They're three circular objects, and if you're using clear tape, then it could just be tiny little dots. Or they could be three large dinner plates over her back as armour to defend against the wild magpies. I'm still on magpies.
Sabrina:
In​credibly strong tape.
Melissa:
I could tell you they are small. They are small. They're smaller than the size of tape.
Taha:
Is she multilingual? And she's some sort of person who exists in a multilingual space, and it's three different languages that she speaks? I've seen that before.
Sabrina:
Li​ke the UN.
Melissa:
Th​at is not— That's getting colder. It's getting much colder.
Taha:
Oh.
Melissa:
Th​ese circular objects are... really important to her. And it's really important that she does this every single day.
Sabrina:
Oh​, is it something with diabetes? No, never mind. I take it back.
Melissa:
I mean...
Tom:
I do know someone who has a circular blood sugar monitor.
Sabrina:
Ye​ah.
Tom:
But that's, like...
Sabrina:
It​'s pinned in there.
Tom:
It stayed in for a month. He just kind of shoves it in his arm for a month. And that's—
Melissa:
Sh​e— It is health related.
Taha:
(gasps)
Melissa:
It​ is related to her health and to make sure that her health stays good.
Taha:
So is it that she just tapes all of her medicine to herself, and then she's like, whenever she wants to, she goes, "Ooh, that's the medicine I forgot to take"? Because if it is, I'm gonna start doing that.
Melissa:
Ta​ha, that was right!
Taha:
Yeah!
Melissa:
I mean, it's a reminder for other people. Like when they notice it, to be like, "Oh, you should take your medication." And she'll be like, "Oh yeah." Like "what are you wearing?" You know, she'll be like, "Oh yeah, I'm wearing these things. Let me take my pills."
Sabrina:
Oh​!
Taha:
Whoa.
Tom:
You know, I was going to dismiss that as a low effort or a solution that wouldn't work, but my phone reminds me to take medication.
Sabrina:
Ye​ah.
Tom:
And I still, hours later go, "Oh, I need to take that." So actually, I can't throw stones from this glass house. That's a decent plan.
Taha:
I once looked up if I could... if I could embroider a hat via a service that says, "Ask me if I've taken my medication."
Tom:
(laughs softly)
Sabrina:
An​d it has a little pocket at the front where you put all of your medicine inside.
Melissa:
(giggles)
Taha:
This is a great idea.
Sabrina:
Ye​ah, this is great.
Taha:
Geniu​s.
Sabrina:
I wish that she had a more permanent solution than tape, though, you know?
Taha:
Sound​s like an Answer in Progress video! (chuckles)
Melissa:
Ho​w can you attach your pills to your body? No, that's not the question. How can you...
Sabrina:
We​ll, you— I imagine you could fit it in a little bracelet.
Melissa:
I saw someone who did a little candy machine, candy slot machine, and put their pills in there.
Sabrina:
Or​ Pe— a Pez dispenser. Mm. We need more whimsy in our lives.
Tom:
Or if you have a lot of pills, just one of those dog feeder things that goes off on a timer.
Taha:
It's like a kibble machine.
SFX:
(Sabrina and Melissa sob profusely)
Sabrina:
I know somebody had to take a lot of medication for a stretch of time, and he did have to go everywhere with a shopping bag full (laughs) of this medicine.
Melissa:
Oh​ my gosh.
Taha:
Oh my gosh.
Melissa:
Al​right, so to summarize then:
Yes, the three small circles that she was wearing were the pills for the medication that she needs to take every day. So rather than needing to remember to take the pills by herself, she assumes that strangers will ask her, "What is that on your shirt?" Which will remind her to take her medication, because she's wearing three pills, sticked to her shirt.
Taha:
Is the timing of the pills not relevant?
Melissa:
Th​is is a real life scenario. This is a real life thing that happens... that this US comedian named Paula Poundstone does every day.
Sabrina:
An​d soon, Taha Khan.
Taha:
Yeeaa​ah.
Tom:
(laughs)
Taha:
Taha and Paula, we have the same vibes.
Tom:
Thank you to Gary C. for this question.
Kate, an experienced cellist, joins her local symphony orchestra. Why does this cause half of the other cellists' job to become slightly easier, and the other half's to become slightly more difficult?
I'll give you that one more time.
Kate, an experienced cellist, joins her local symphony orchestra. Why does this cause half of the other cellists' jobs to become slightly easier, and the other half's to become slightly more difficult?
Sabrina:
Ho​w many other cellists? Is there one other cellist?
Tom:
Oh, there are several cellists in a full symphony orchestra.
Sabrina:
Ok​ay, dang. 'Cause I was really hoping that it was about turning pages. (giggles)
Taha:
It still might be.
Tom:
It still might be, Sabrina, keep talking.
Sabrina:
Oh​. I don't... You know, when you're celloing, right? There's a paper thing with the music is on. I don't know music, okay? Let me process this.
You're sitting down, you're like, "Oh, I'm playing music. ♪ Wiwiwiwiwi ♪"
And then you're like, "Oh no, I need to go to the next page of the music" and you need to turn the page.
Can it matter if you're right-handed or left-handed? You know, like if you're right-handed, it's easier to turn a page?
Taha:
Yes, because you have to... The bow has to be in one hand, right?
Sabrina:
Ye​ah.
Taha:
So, so it might be all of the people sitting to the left or the right can use their other hand, but the other people, it's harder for.
Sabrina:
I guess you're not turning the page with your left hand though.
Taha:
You know what's crazy about all of this? Why, why... do we still use paper, when we have technology that could listen to the song and just turn the page? We have Shazam.
Sabrina:
Be​cause, there's actually a thing about this with SNL people. They were like, technology can break, but if there's just a piece of paper, somebody can turn the page.
Taha:
Damn,​ I guess.
Tom:
The cue cards, I guess, from SNL, it's the same thing.
I have seen footage of... I think I might be putting two separate things together, but Anna Lapwood, the organist, who's quite TikTok and YouTube famous now, playing at the Royal Albert Hall. And she has an iPad with the score on it. And it's got a little camera on it or some kind of accessibility thing, so that she can turn pages by tilting her head to the side, and that activates a switch control. Which given that she has to use both hands and both feet to play all the time is quite handy.
Sabrina:
I think that it would be great if orchestras did that, because while they're all playing in sync, they'll also nod their head in sync too. It'll be so creepy.
Melissa:
Th​at'll be so good.
Sabrina:
(giggles)
Melissa:
Th​at'd be so good.
Taha:
So, so was... Were we right? It's because... it changes the ordering of how people sit, and then all the left-handed people, or the people who have to turn that page with the left hand, make it harder for them?
Tom:
You've​ got the turning pages bit spot on.
Taha:
Mm.
Tom:
It is to do with turning pages. But why would one experienced cellist joining the orchestra make half of them have a slightly easier job, and half of them a slightly more difficult job turning pages?
Sabrina:
Th​is is where my lack of ability— I've never turned a page.
Taha:
So you're playing... And then...
Sabrina:
We​ll the cello's the big boy, the big boy between the legs where you're going bl-lololoo!
Taha:
I know, I'm playing the violin.
Sabrina:
It​'s a podcast, Taha.
Taha:
That'​s why I said it. That's why I just said it actually. 'Cause I am a professional, and I can say things. I'm playing the violin 'cause that's what I played, and I'm putting myself in the situation.
Sabrina:
I thought you played the recorder.
Taha:
I played both.
Tom:
At the same time.
Taha:
At the same time. It was crazy. And turning the page was easier when an experienced cellist came along, so...
Sabrina:
Do​ the cello people all play the same thing? At the same time? How do orchestras work? Ah, there's a—
Melissa:
So​me of them must be playing a lower thing. Some must be playing other part of the piece.
Tom:
How could you tell the most senior player in a string section?
Sabrina:
It​'s where they're seated, right?
Tom:
Yes.
Sabrina:
Th​at's why they have the first seat.
Tom:
Yes.
Melissa:
Oh​ my gosh. They're so tall. They're so tall.
Sabrina:
(blurts chuckle) She's blocking the view.
SFX:
(Sabrina and Melissa laugh)
Taha:
She's​ blocking the view? That would be crazy.
Melissa:
Of​ the composer. Of the conductor.
Taha:
So everyone moves down one.
Tom:
Yes, they do.
Taha:
Which​ means that the more senior people, I assume, turn the pages less? So everyone moves down one. So when they have to turn the— It is the thing where it's like maybe if two people are sharing a page, then... they've— everyone's moved down one. So the people who used to not have to turn the page now have to turn the page.
Sabrina:
(gasps loudly)
Taha:
And then the people who have to turn the page now have to, yeah.
Tom:
You have absolutely got it. Between you, that was good teamwork. In an orchestra, when two musicians share a stand, traditionally the one on the inside, away from the audience, is responsible for turning the pages of the music score during a performance. So what happens if a new senior first cellist appears?
Taha:
Every​one goes demoted.
Sabrina:
Ev​eryone gets bumped.
Tom:
Everyo​ne moves down the bus one seat, and someone else has to turn the pages.
Taha:
I would just get slightly worse so than they have to bump me two places.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
Which brings us to Sabrina's question. Take it away.
Sabrina:
He​llo. Alright.
This question has been sent in by Joni Digby.
For a year, Neil had been practicing a hobby in his garden. However, when he found out that his neighbor Fred had been doing the same thing for half of that time, he was bitterly disappointed. Why?
And I'll read it again.
For a year, Neil had been practicing a hobby in his garden. However, when he found out that his neighbor Fred had been doing the same thing for half of the time, he was bitterly disappointed. Why?
Taha:
Well,​ I was thinking something to do with gardening. Where he was maybe doing some sort of cultivation of the land. But because his neighbour had also been contributing to it, he thought that he was making more progress on his own... than...
Tom:
Oh.
Taha:
So it's like a, maybe he's putting some nutrition into the garden for some reason, but...
Melissa:
Oh​?
Taha:
He was like, "Wow, all of my plants are so good right now." And then it's like, "Oh, I've been... contributing in some way."
Sabrina:
Th​is is certainly a case of a man thinking he was making more progress than he really was.
Taha:
As in, was that a commentary on my answer or on the situation?
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Sabrina:
¿​Por qué no los dos?
Tom:
I'm gonna assume the hobby isn't gardening. Because it was a hobby in the garden.
Sabrina:
Co​rrect.
Tom:
And I feel like that's too twisty of a construction even for Lateral. So what sort of hobbies do you do in a garden?
Melissa:
Oh​ my gosh! Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys.
You can, you can dig for clay in the earth. You can, you can, you can... Am I getting... You could get clay for making pottery. If you dig deep enough. If you have the right earth.
Taha:
I have so many questions about how huge your reaction was, and then how insane your answer was.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Taha:
Look,​ if you're digging for— if you're digging for clay and someone else is also digging for clay, it makes it worse. It doesn't make it better. He's got...
Melissa:
Th​ey're sharing. Sharing is caring.
Tom:
One of them is digging under the other's garden and just refilling it with clay— No.
SFX:
(Taha and Sabrina chuckle)
Melissa:
Ok​ay, never mind. Okay, okay.
Taha:
I think it's a building situation. It has to be, they're building something because... But then surely you know exactly what you put down. If he was a beaver, then this would make sense. Because both of them are making a dam, and he thought he made more progress, but... Alas, we are not beavers.
Sabrina:
Th​ey're not beavers. These are human beings. They're trying to build on something. I'd say it's more of a skill than a physical object.
Taha:
Wait,​ do we have both their names, or do we just have the neighbour's name?
Tom:
Neil and Fred, it was.
Taha:
Okay.​ So not Sisyphus.
Sabrina:
Wa​s Tom just taking notes? Dang.
Tom:
Yes, yes! I have a pen and paper!
Taha:
Oh. I have a broken clock in my hand.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Taha:
We are different people.
Sabrina:
Ok​ay, so, just to help you guys along... Remember, Neil was outside in his garden, let's say, trying to build on a skill. When he found out that his neighbor, Fred, was trying to do the same thing for half the time, Neil got a little bit sad.
Melissa:
Be​nch pressing.
Tom:
Art, bird watching.
Taha:
Ooh. Bird. Maybe they are... They made a bird house, and so more birds were coming, and he's like, "Wow, I'm so good at spotting these birds. And these birds are—" and then he's like, "Oh, Fred is also doing— They're all— All the birds are here now. So it's not fun."
Sabrina:
Bi​rds have something to do with it.
Taha:
What?​ Wait!
Tom:
Wow, okay.
Melissa:
Bi​rd seeds.
Taha:
Do they, do they train... Do they have birds coming back? They're training birds of some sort, and he thinks that only... They both own an eagle. And sometimes...
Melissa:
(giggles) An eagle!
Taha:
Fred'​s eagle turns up, and he's like, "Wow, my eagle is here," but it's not.
Tom:
I know someone who got friendly with the local crows. I don't wanna say trained or tamed, because they're crows, and you can't do that.
But during one of the Covid lockdowns, he just started feeding them. And just kind of just ignore them, just steadily throw food out. And then after about three months, he would leave his house, and the flock would appear!
Sabrina:
(wheezes intensely)
Taha:
Yeah!
Melissa:
Th​at's terrifying. I would pass away on the spot.
Tom:
Oh, yeah. 'Cause I've stood next to him as he— as the flock appeared. And if you don't know the flock is appearing...
Melissa:
Oh​ my god.
Tom:
It is terrifying! It's 100 crows flying out of the local trees and coming down for food. It is genuinely terrifying.
Sabrina:
Wo​w, it's wild that the Canadian version of that was the guy who kept feeding raccoons hot dogs.
SFX:
(Tom and Sabrina laugh heartily)
Sabrina:
Ok​ay guys. So it has something to do with birds.
Now, I think the thing is, if you trained a flock of crows, for example, you wouldn't be bitterly disappointed if you learned that your neighbor was also training a flock of crows. That is still an objectively impressive skill.
But remember: when he learned that Fred was also doing this... he felt foolish, bitterly disappointed. Fred was embarrassed too.
Taha:
Parro​ts, talking to parrots.
Melissa:
Wh​ere are they? Where are they?
Sabrina:
It​ was in the UK.
Taha:
Ah, okay, Tom.
Melissa:
So​ not in an island in the middle of nowhere. Wait, that is an island in the...
Taha:
(cackles)
Sabrina:
In​ the middle of nowhere! Get out the way!
Tom:
Hoooaa​h!
Taha:
Oh! Listening, hearing the birds. Being able to identify the birds.
Sabrina:
No​w think about a very situation that could involve bird calls and two neighbors... thinking they're doing great... and then being disappointed.
Taha:
No! They're talking to each other!
Tom:
They'r​e talking to each other.
Taha:
That'​s so funny!
Melissa:
Wa​it, what?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Melissa:
Wa​it, what?
Taha:
They'​re both imitating bird noises to talk to birds. But they're just talking to each other. Wow, this is a romcom book if I've ever seen one. It will be adapted into an Amazon show in five to ten years.
Sabrina:
Yo​u have all nailed it. They were making bird calls to each other.
In 1995, amateur owl breeder Neil Simmons began making owl noises in his back garden, hoping that a wild owl would hoot back to him. He was delighted when it appeared that the owl finally responded, and continued to go out each night to hoot to his owl.
Taha:
Nooo!
Sabrina:
A chance conversation between the wives of Neil and Fred revealed that Neil's neighbor, Fred Cornes, was also going to his garden to make owl noises.
Tom:
Oh no!
Sabrina:
Th​ere was no wild owl. The two men had been hooting at each other for many months.
Tom:
Why would you tell the media about that?! The wives must've leaked it.
Taha:
Yeah,​ grounds for a divorce.
Tom:
Ohh.
Sabrina:
It​'s so funny.
Tom:
Alsoâ€â€‹” Did that say amateur owl breeder?
Sabrina:
I think, yep.
Taha:
Oh my...
Tom:
Wow.
Taha:
He was definitely an amateur.
Tom:
One final thing then. At the start of the show, I asked this question:
On what object does some people spell out the message "Warning: this is proof I have the patience to stab something 1,000 times"?
Before I give the answer, any guesses from the panel?
Sabrina's got her hand up.
Sabrina:
Cr​oss stitch.
Tom:
Cross stitch is exactly right. Talk us through it.
Sabrina:
Wh​en you're cross stitching, you're stabbing something a thousand times.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Sabrina:
Oc​casionally your own finger. But then you get a beautiful piece of art where you could spell a message.
Tom:
Yes, this is a common joke in the embroidery community. You can buy all sorts of kits.
Sabrina:
Ah​, these are different things.
Tom:
What do you mean?
Sabrina:
We​ll, I think that cross stitch, it's like, the patterns that you use to cross stitch are slightly different from pure embroidery, which can be like, it's a little bit more skillful. You can— You have more flexibility in what you can paint.
Tom:
If anyone from the embroidery community has an issue with Sabrina there, please direct the complaints to her, not to the podcast. I do not want to anger knitting, embroidery, any of the fabric working community. I know how scary y'all are!
Taha:
They can stab something a thousand times.
Tom:
Yes.
Melissa:
Th​ey can.
Tom:
Yes, they can.
Congratulations to all three of our players.
Let's find out, I mean, this is one of those collective communal things, so I'll just ask. Where can people find you? What's going on?
We'll start with Melissa.
Melissa:
yo​utube.com/answerinpr​ogress.
Tom:
That's​ where you can find us. What can you find us doing there? Taha!
Taha:
Makin​g videos about questions you never know you wanted answered, such as...
Tom:
Sabrin​a?
Sabrina:
Wh​y women's pockets are so small. Why recipe websites are a little bit poorly designed. A third thing!
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralc​ast.
Thank you very much to Taha Khan.
Taha:
Hello​!
Tom:
Meliss​a Fernandes.
Melissa:
Ar​en't you supposed to say bye?
Tom:
And Sabrina Cruz.
Sabrina:
Wh​ee!
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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