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Episode 133: Boxes and benches
Published 25th April, 2025
Matt Gray, Daniel Peake and Charlotte Yeung face questions about drumming dates, careful cleaning and remarkable records.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Gustav, Gannon Murphey, Huw Morris, Leo Taanila, Nick M., Valentine, Chris Tam. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
To calm things down, why does Claire always play the drums on the same two days every year?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Welcome seekers, to the celestial sphere of Lateral. The stars are aligned, the tea leaves have been read, and the psychic vibrations are... probably being caused by the builders downstairs. But fear not, for the cosmos has revealed three guiding lights that are attuned to the subtle energies of creative thought.
First we have, from Matt Gray is Trying, Matt Gray.
Matt:
Hello​! Thank you for having me back.
Tom:
Welcom​e back to the show. What are you working on in a minute? What's— What are you trying?
Matt:
Well,​ at the end of the last episode I was on, I prematurely promoted a video that wasn't out yet.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Matt:
So as we are recording now at the end of March, I'm just about to release my search-and-rescue video where I went out on Dartmoor with Dartmoor Search and Rescue, trying to rescue an actor who had pretended to break their leg. But we heard some real shouts for help while we were there, so it turned into a real search halfway through.
So if you want to see that, then look up Matt Gray is Trying on YouTube.
Tom:
Full plugging. I appreciate it.
Matt:
Well,​ why do you think I'm here, Tom? I'm not here to support my friend's podcast.
Tom:
No, that's fair enough.
Matt:
(wheezes and cackles)
Tom:
Next up— yeah, I'm just gonna move on from that.
Next up we have quiz and puzzle writer and editor Dan Peake. Welcome back to the show.
Daniel:
Hey​, thank you for having me. It is good to be back.
Tom:
What have you been working on?
Daniel:
Wel​l, nothing as exciting as Matt. We could start with that.
Tom:
(laughs)
Daniel:
My job at a newspaper is very, very samey. So essentially every week, I just have to make sure we get all the puzzles out for – I have to work on my puzzles, make sure all my stuff is edited. So it's the same in week in, week out. It can be a little bit monotonous, but here's something I think you'll identify with, Scott.
Tom:
The name's Tom, but we'll go with it. (laughs)
Daniel:
Her​e's something you'll identify with, Tom.
Tom:
No, no, no, no. Don't go back and try and edit that flub out. Don't give us a nice, neat edit point. We're keeping that in.
Daniel:
So,​ Paul...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Daniel:
Whe​n you want to have time off... is it a pain in the wasnames. Because I've got some time off next week.
Tom:
Mhm.
Daniel:
But​ irritatingly, the people on the newspapers who read it, they still want all their little puzzles and everything. We can't just put a little A4 page over the top and say, "Sorry, puzzles have gone on holiday. Do your own puzzles or look elsewhere."
They still want their flipping little puzzles. So, at the moment I'm just working really, really hard, compiling lots of little puzzles for people so I can have three days off. Lovely.
Tom:
Very briefly on flipping little puzzles, your accent went full Danny Dyer. Just for a moment there. Just a little bit!
Daniel:
(wheezes) I've been called worse.
SFX:
(Tom and Matt laugh)
Tom:
The final member of our trio today is a new player: studying for her PhD in drug delivery systems, and perhaps more importantly for this show, one of the players on ITV's new series Genius Game...
SFX:
(Daniel and Matt gasp)
Charlotte:
​Surprise!
Tom:
Charlo​tte Yeung, welcome to the show.
Charlotte:
​Thank you for having me.
Tom:
And you can tell from those gasps that I did not tell Matt or Dan, who are, like me, fans of the Korean original.
Matt:
I have watched every episode of the Korean original, and some of them more than once. (wheezes)
Charlotte:
​All the seasons?
Matt:
Yes.
Tom:
Charlo​tte, would you like to explain the show and how you're part of it?
Charlotte:
​So the Genius Game, which was, as you've said, a Korean kind of... originated as a Korean series, but what moved down into the UK, is a series of little puzzles, kind of like what Daniel's job is.
And there's 11 of us contestants, and every day there's a new round, and after around eight rounds, there's two finalists. And we're competing for a prize pool of up to £50,000. And within all of these days, everyone has a chance to get knocked out. Everyone has a chance to get taken to a deathmatch. Everyone has a chance to win and get immunity.
It's very exciting. It follows a very similar format to the Korean series. And yeah, I am one of the contestants.
Tom:
It is the smartest and best puzzle show I've ever seen on television. And this is where I can also reveal to Matt and Dan that I have seen the first two episodes of the season. And I think the best compliment I can give it is I want to see the rest of it, so...
Matt:
Oh, wow.
Daniel:
Ohh​!
Tom:
Charlo​tte, thank—
Daniel:
Can​ we—
SFX:
(Tom and Charlotte laugh)
Daniel:
I just wanna watch it now!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Charlotte:
​I'm in the same boat. I also want to watch it, and I haven't even seen the first two episodes, so...
Tom:
Okay, then I will keep my mouth shut. Very best of luck to all three of the players. It is time to embrace the resonating energy that's flowing through my script and dance around the aura of question one.
Thank you to Nick M. for this question.
Why do some people choose to have 'Xavier Roberts' tattooed on their buttocks, in solidarity with kids who were adopted in the 1980s?
I'll say that again.
Why do some people choose to have 'Xavier Roberts' tattooed on their buttocks, in solidarity with kids that were adopted in the 1980s?
Daniel:
Che​eky question.
Tom:
Eyyy.
Matt:
(chuckles)
Daniel:
Ahy​... (exhales) That is my contribution. Oh look, it's on their buttocks.
Matt:
I don't remember much of the 1980s, and I certainly don't remember arse tattoos.
Daniel:
(wheezes)
Matt:
Charl​otte, am I right in assuming you're post-1980s?
Charlotte:
​I am indeed post-1980s. I think you could double that, and I still wouldn't be alive, but you know. Here we are!
SFX:
(Matt and Charlotte laugh)
Tom:
(deflates)
Charlotte:
​Is Xavier... Is Xavier Roberts a common, a well known... Do you guys know who— a Xavier Roberts?
Daniel:
Not​ familiar, no.
Tom:
If you did, that would solve the question immediately.
Matt:
Oh?
Daniel:
(chuckles gutturally)
Matt:
So, the tattoo... might not have happened in the 80s, but the adopting did?
Tom:
Yes, that's right.
Daniel:
The​ fact that Xavier starts with X is a big... (flashes hands) big flag for me.
Matt:
(laughs) Sorry, that hand action!
SFX:
(Matt and Dan laugh)
Tom:
I was looking down at my mug. What? Oh, okay. Yeah, there was a lot of... I can only describe is that if you put both hands in front of you, in fists, and then kind of... extend and retract your fingers in quite a manner there.
Daniel:
It'​s... yes.
Tom:
It's a big flag, certainly, though.
Daniel:
It'​s, yes, the fact that it starts with X feels very important. Now, I immediately assumed it was the tattoo of the whole name, but it's not going to be the whole name. It's just gonna be like XR or something. It's just going to be couple of letters. 'Cause you wouldn't have a whole name tattooed on you, would you?
Matt:
The only Xavier that I know is Professor Charles Xavier from X-Men, if that's the right...
Daniel:
Yea​h, yeah.
Matt:
Is it Patrick Stewart? Is it 'cause his bald head could look like a butt cheek?
SFX:
(Tom and Dan blurt laughter)
Charlotte:
​Could it be something to do with... like, in America, Make-A-Wish? And perhaps Xavier Roberts was a founder of something that had helped these children find their families or... maybe even, more like helped save their lives?
Tom:
That is slightly closer. Not that close. It's not Make-A-Wish. But yes, Xavier Roberts was very much the founder of this. The inventor, perhaps.
Matt:
The Genius is getting us closer.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Matt:
Solid​arity.
Tom:
Mhm.
Matt:
Is a very specific type of paying homage to someone, isn't it?
Tom:
Yes.
Daniel:
Ado​pted.
Tom:
The kids didn't know they were adopted. Is it the kids that had the tattoos as well? Yes, the kids did have this tattoo. Tattoo is perhaps a little bit of a strong word here, but yes.
Matt:
Birth​mark?
Daniel:
Bra​nding.
Tom:
Brandi​ng, not in the way you expect.
Matt:
Goats​! Kids are goats.
Tom:
Is—
Daniel:
Ohh​h. Are we in goats?
Tom:
(laughs) We are not in goats. But you are correct to point out that I have always used the word kids here.
Matt:
Becau​se, you know, branding small human children would be classed as brutality.
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
Where​as in farming, it for some reason isn't, so... What other than goats have kids?
Tom:
These tattoos on the people who choose to have them are evoking a happy memory.
Matt:
Oh, are these animals that have been taken away from food farming to be... kept alive?
Tom:
No, no. More than 130 million kids were adopted.
Daniel:
Oh,​ that's a lot.
Tom:
'Tis a lot.
Matt:
Is 'adopted' a play on words? Because like you can adopt a practice.
Tom:
You have correctly worked out that I'm being tricky with language here, but the terms they used were 'kids' and 'adopted'. Those are the correct words for this. They may just not be used in the way you think they are.
Matt:
Charl​otte, in your drug delivery research, I'm sure there's a lot of people there with happy memories from that.
Charlotte:
​Yeah.
SFX:
(Tom and Charlotte laugh)
Charlotte:
​I'm bawling in happiness. Honestly. Every day is not...
SFX:
(both crack up)
Charlotte:
​a stressful day for me, no. This makes me think that maybe there was a popular TV series or a popular... I don't know, like Pokémon was popular for me. I've got a bunch behind me, you know.
Labubus are popular now.
Was there something popular at the time that you guys were children?
Tom:
Yes. Yes, absolutely there was.
Charlotte:
(laughs) Sometime when I was not alive, guys.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Matt:
Beani​e Babies!
Tom:
Now we're getting closer.
Daniel:
Wha​t?
Matt:
Was it the label from a Beanie Baby that was on the arse of all the Beanie Babies?
Tom:
You are very, very close, Matt.
Daniel:
Oka​y.
Tom:
But they were from the Ty Company, named after someone called Ty.
Matt:
Kids.
Tom:
Kids.
Daniel:
Cab​bage Patch Kids?
Tom:
Cabbag​e Patch Kids!
Daniel:
(groans)
Tom:
That's​ it. Charlotte set it up. Dan knocked it home. Tell us about it.
Daniel:
Mat​t was there.
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Daniel:
I don't really know.
Tom:
What were the Cabbage Patch Kids?
Daniel:
The​y were small dolls.
Tom:
Yes.
Daniel:
The​y were small dolls with apparently 'XR' tattooed on them or something?
Tom:
I dunno why you went for that XR. The inventor's name is Xavier Roberts, and for seven years, the dolls had his signature inked on their backside. As a sign of authenticity. And so some fans have paid for a tattoo of that signature on their backside.
Daniel:
(wheezes)
Matt:
Is this how you tell that someone's actually a member of Extinction Rebellion as well?
Daniel:
Yea​h, if you do XR, yeah.
Tom:
Yes, the dolls came with a birth certificate and adoption paper, so that as a kid, you could have this doll, fill out the paperwork, and adopt your doll.
Matt:
Am I right in thinking the heads kind of looked a bit cabbagey as well? Which sounds weird saying it, but I feel like the dolls did look a bit cabbagey.
Tom:
Quite sort of large and round, I think. I dunno where Cabbage Patch came from, but yes, they're kind of... big, big round faces, not, certainly not realistic looking dolls.
Matt:
I also grew up with Pokémon when I was young, and I realised the other day that I have been taken by the Pokémon Company for about 30 years now. Which is just... I dunno, it's happy. It makes me happy.
Tom:
Yeah.
Matt:
I don't mind capitalism at this point.
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them.
Dan, we're gonna start with you.
Daniel:
Tha​nk you very much to Gannon Murphey for sending in this question.
From the 1930s to the 2010s, the Westin St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco offered a cleaning service. It was popular with the hotel's guests, but absolutely reviled by a few people who never went there. What was the service, and why was it controversial?
So, from the 1930s to the 2010s, the Westin St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco offered a cleaning service. It was popular with the hotel's guests, but absolutely reviled by a few who never went there. What was the service, and why was it controversial?
Tom:
Matt, Charlotte, this one's on you. Because I, many years ago, asked to film this service, and... they'd stopped.
Daniel:
(laughs heartily) So did you find out that it had stopped before you went?
Tom:
Well, yes. When I sent the message saying, can I do a thing about this? "We don't do this anymore."
Daniel:
Oka​y.
Charlotte:
​Is it— Would it be something to do with body cleaning or bodily fluids in that kind of sense? Because you would be less revolted by yourself, but more revolted to know if it's, you know, about someone else.
Daniel:
I mean, that's undeniably true, but thankfully, no body fluids are contained in this question.
Matt:
(wheezes)
Tom:
I'm gonna pedant you that technically there could be a little bit of body fluid.
Daniel:
I'l​l allow it.
Tom:
But no, it's not.
Daniel:
It'​s not a primary thing.
Matt:
Okay,​ so the hotel was the Westin St. Francis. I'm gonna assume the name of the hotel doesn't matter.
Daniel:
It doesn't. Other businesses in the area did start to copy the idea. So it wasn't just the one hotel that did it.
Matt:
And it was a cleaning service.
Daniel:
Hmm​.
Matt:
I'm trying to think. Charlotte, can you think of any cleaning services that hotels offer, other than maybe laundry?
Charlotte:
​They also have to clean the entire room. And I was gonna say laundry as well. That was my second part. They offer shower facilities in the... and saunas in the... basement.
Matt:
And it's popular with—
SFX:
(Dan and Charlotte giggle)
Daniel:
Sor​ry, it just sounded slightly seedy. There's saunas in the basement, if you know what I mean.
Charlotte:
​Nothing dodgy going on down there. No.
Matt:
And it's popular with the guests, and it's America. America likes cars. So it could have been like valet car cleaning or...
Daniel:
The​ cleaning service... I will just say didn't involve rooms or laundry. Didn't involve cars either, but you are starting to think along right lines.
Matt:
The people that reviled it, were they also guests, or were they non-guests?
Daniel:
No,​ they weren't guests of the hotel at all.
Matt:
So maybe it's one of those things that sounds like a bad idea until it's happens to you, and then you go, "Actually, no, I quite like this."
Charlotte:
​Is it something like... cleaning of your ears? Because that's actually very, very comfortable and...
Daniel:
I want to have that done now. No, it isn't.
Tom:
Do you mean earwax removal there?
Charlotte:
​Yes, earwax removal. And sometimes they put just a little bit of liquid in, but they manage, they do get it out. It's not dangerous, you know.
Matt:
Well,​ when done by a professional.
Charlotte:
​Yeah, by a professional.
Matt:
I've had that done. And the moment when you can suddenly hear again, not realising you've been half-deaf for a while is kind of amazing. So it's not that.
What else do I know about San Francisco? It is a sunny, windy, and foggy place. It's on the coast and has hills nearby and throughout it.
Daniel:
All​ true, all irrelevant.
Matt:
The only other thing I can think you can get in hotels is I've seen fancy hotels have shoe cleaning kits in them and... It's not laundry kind of stuff. It's so you can, when you're there for your fancy business meeting, make yourself look a bit nicer or...
Daniel:
You​'re right that there's a particular... object or set of objects that is being cleaned.
Matt:
Suitc​ase?
Daniel:
Nop​e.
Matt:
Golf clubs.
Daniel:
No.
Charlotte:
​Once something has been cleaned, and all of... there's all of the dirt, maybe the dirt gets pushed out into the public, and that's why it revolts?
Daniel:
Ah,​ no, no, it isn't that. But I see why you say that. The people who didn't like the service felt it was a bit destructive in some way.
Matt:
So that's the sounds of abrasive cleaning.
Daniel:
I think they would think it's that, yeah. I think there's probably an element of that in it a little bit, yeah.
Matt:
Exfol​iation. (wheezes)
Tom:
(snickers) If your exfoliation is abrasive, Matt, that's...
Matt:
(giggles) I just sandblast myself in the shower.
Tom:
Heavy grit sandpaper, just to (imitates grinding)
Matt:
Is it jewelry?
Daniel:
Ooh​, close.
Matt:
If you're buffing your jewelry with more than just a polish, that can make it shiny by taking the top lead down, which would be destructive.
Daniel:
Mhm​. It's not jewelry. Something less valuable. And we're dealing from the 1930s to the 2010s.
Matt:
So it's not gonna be a mobile phone screen.
Tom:
No, but I think if I can drop a hint in, Dan.
Daniel:
Oh,​ please.
Tom:
Thinki​ng about technological progress, there is a reason that it's not really being used that much.
Matt:
Do we need to roleplay to figure this one out? So...
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
Hello​, madam. Welcome to the Westin St. Francis, San Francisco.
Charlotte:
​Thank you very much. I would like to check into my room please.
Matt:
Cool.​ Could I see your reservation and your passport please? Passports?
Daniel:
Not​ passport.
Charlotte:
​How do I even show my reservation? Here's a piece of paper.
SFX:
(Charlotte and Tom laugh)
Matt:
Keys,​ room keys. That's kind of, if you clean a key, that could be abrasive and stop the keys working.
Daniel:
Oth​er people wouldn't particularly mind if a metal key was cleaned, though. Other people did dislike this cleaning, and they never went to the hotel.
Matt:
It's something people can see, then. It's people being judgy about what they can see on someone else's person, then.
Daniel:
Ehh​... I think these people who felt it was destructive might be being a bit judgmental, maybe.
Matt:
Milli​nery?
Tom:
You missed a really important step of check-in.
Matt:
Did I?
Daniel:
Yea​h.
Charlotte:
​Ringing the bell.
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
Is it getting your bell cleaned?
Daniel:
(wheezes)
Matt:
I suppose people don't use bells anymore, because it's more of the digital kind of thing.
Tom:
Mm—!
Daniel:
Cer​tainly Charlotte, you could stay for two nights. How... Can you put a deposit on the room or something?
Charlotte:
​With my cash. Because we don't use cards?
Matt:
Chequ​e?
Daniel:
Not​ cheque.
Matt:
I'm thinking of the card machines that imprint, that go (krr-donk-donk)
Daniel:
I think we're before cards. Certainly in the 1930s.
Matt:
So it's... Coins! Getting your coins cleaned.
Daniel:
Ah-​huh.
Matt:
And coins' value is based on its weight in the olden days. So people might be sad that an abrasively cleaned coin could have lost some of its weight and therefore its value?
Daniel:
Not​ necessarily the weight, but maybe just its general condition, yes.
It's exactly that: having your coins cleaned. It's felt by numismatists to be a bit ruining to the actual coins, you know, degrading them in some way.
Matt:
So what, you check in, hand over your coin purse, and they'll give them a good rubdown or something?
Daniel:
Yes​, it's exactly that, Matt. It is having the coins cleaned. So the question was, what was the service? Your coins are being cleaned. And why was it controversial? Because some... Because coin collectors weren't fond of the damage that could be done to the coins as a result. 'Cause it can be a bit abrasive.
Matt:
And it did— It stopped in 2010. Not because people use coins less. It's just 'cause no one cares.
SFX:
(Tom and Matt laugh)
Tom:
If I remember my research right, one of the reasons was not necessarily just to clean your coins, but so the change you got from the hotel was always sparkling and never grubby.
Daniel:
Awh​.
Matt:
Oh.
Tom:
But they hired a specific coin washer.
Daniel:
The​ service finally stopped when Rob Holsen, the hotel's primary coin washer, retired after a 40-year career.
So the hotel had a policy of physically washing all coins that passed through their coffers, using detergent and vibrating birdshot. This led to very clean coins, but coin collectors weren't terribly fond of the damages it could do to some of the coins.
The tradition started when the hotel manager saw that the coins were soiling the gloves of the ladies. And at its peak, hundreds of thousands of dollars in change were washed every week.
And the demand has, of course, decreased over time as cash payments have been decreased, and also fewer people wear white gloves.
Tom:
But not zero.
Matt:
(laughs heartily)
Daniel:
But​ not zero.
Tom:
We got through that entire question, and no one made the money laundering joke.
Daniel:
Ohh​!
Matt:
Oh, damn!
Daniel:
Wel​l that's an opportunity missed.
Tom:
Thank you to Valentine for this next question.
At the 2012 London Olympics, Usain Bolt ran 100 metres in just 9.3 seconds. He wasn't assisted by vehicles, other people, or the wind. Though he didn't break any rule, He didn't receive an official world or Olympic record. Why?
And one more time. At the 2012 London Olympics, Usain Bolt ran 100 metres in just 9.3 seconds. He wasn't assisted by vehicles, other people, or the wind. Though he didn't break any rule, he didn't receive an official world or Olympic record. Why?
Daniel:
Two​ doors were closing. I had to get on really quick.
Tom:
I did that on the way back from something the other week, and... I got through the Tube doors. I did the Indiana Jones flying leap. And my friend... did not make the leap.
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom:
And I just turn round and I wave. Aw. We do not see each other again for the rest of the day.
Matt:
Yeah,​ yeah. Come back to my place. Yeah. I haven't got bored of hanging out with you. Woomph.
Tom:
Schunk​.
Matt:
(giggles)
SFX:
orry, Usain Bolt, 9.3 seconds for 100 metres.
Matt:
I mean, the quick response to this would be, was the record actually faster than that? And he didn't get near it?
SFX:
(Matt and Tom laugh)
Daniel:
Oh,​ I don't know what the record is. 9.8, I want to say. 9.3 is quick. It's quicker than the record.
Tom:
Yeah, Usain Bolt has the record at the moment. It is 9.58.
Matt:
But he ran 100 metres in 9.3 s— I've remembered the answer. I think I know it.
Tom:
Ooh.
Daniel:
Ooh​. It's you and me, Charlotte.
Charlotte:
​Right? Here we go, Dan. Okay.
Daniel:
(vocal fries) Straight down. It was 100m straight down. 9.3 seconds.
SFX:
(Tom and Matt laugh)
Matt:
Wait,​ that's about the same speed as...
Daniel:
As gravity, yeah.
Matt:
Gravi​ty, yeah.
Daniel:
Oh,​ that's true. Which is faster, gravity or Usain Bolt?
Tom:
Gravit​y, definitely. Gravity is 9.8 metres per second per second.
Daniel:
Oh,​ that's true. Very true.
Tom:
No, hold on. I'm not certain of this now. I was like, it's absolutely gravity.
Matt:
(wheezes)
Tom:
It is. It's gotta be.
Daniel:
Yâ€â€‹”Yes.
Matt:
Gravâ​€” it depends on what distance. But yes, the acceleration—
Daniel:
You​'ll do 100 metres in less than 10 seconds. Going down, anyway.
Tom:
Yes, you will, but for just a second, my brain was a little confused there.
Daniel:
The​re's some jokes for the physicists.
Tom:
I also know that Producer David will just have Googled a free fall calculator and will be doing the sums right now.
Daniel:
So,​ London 2012. (sighs)
Charlotte:
​Was there something wrong with the way that the race was set up, so that there was no official... time recording?
Daniel:
We are not even, we've not even been told it's a race.
Charlotte:
​Oh?
Daniel:
Oh.​.. no. Okay, I think I know how it is now.
SFX:
(Matt and Tom laugh)
Charlotte:
​Oh, oh, okay. Just leavin'!
Daniel:
Sor​ry, Charlotte.
Tom:
No, no. That's not how this works. That's not how this works. We don't get an increasing number of people going, "Ah yeah, no, I've clocked it."
Matt said he'd remembered this. So I'm gonna go to Matt first.
Matt:
I think I've heard this before.
Tom:
Yeah.
Matt:
Did he do a 9.3 second 100m as part of the 400m race?
Daniel:
I was thinking 200, but I think it's part of a different race.
Tom:
You are absolutely right. It was the second half of a 200 metre sprint. So it was a running start for the final 100 metres.
Matt:
And he can't win that because he was already at speed when that 100m started.
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
Which​ you aren't when the normal 100m starts.
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
Thoug​h I would like to see a catapult launch 100 metre running race.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Matt:
You have to land on your feet.
Tom:
Yes, there have been several other performances with even better splits. Yohan Blake in 2011 managed 100m in 9.12 seconds.
Daniel:
Woo​f.
Tom:
Which is incredibly fast... but not from a standing start, so it does not count for the record.
Matt:
I've done 9.3 second 100 metres before, but that would've been on a bike or in a car or on a plane or...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
And Producer David has had time to do the calculations. It would take 4.51 seconds to cover 100 metres by free fall.
So actually... little less than half, but the difference is not as great as you might think. You would be going 44 metres a second by the end of it, though.
Daniel:
Not​ for long.
SFX:
(Matt and Tom laugh)
Tom:
So yeah, covering the first 100 metres in free fall: 4.5 seconds. Covering the next 100m: that's very fast.
Daniel:
Mm,​ mhm.
Matt:
And then going around the corner at the end for the rest of the track as you slow down is...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Charlo​tte, it is over to you for the next question.
Charlotte:
​Alright.
This question has been sent in by Gustav.
Steve needs to fly his helicopter at low altitudes over long distances as part of his work. Fortunately, his helicopter has two more blades than normal. What is his job?
And again.
Steve needs to fly his helicopter at low altitudes over long distances as part of his work. Fortunately, his helicopter has two more blades than normal. What is his job?
Daniel:
I have an idea. I'm not certain, so I'm just gonna take a step back, but I have an idea.
Tom:
No, no, this is happening again. 'Cause two of us have an idea.
Matt:
I know one job that you use very low flying helicopters for.
Tom:
So there are gonna be three guesses here. We're gonna have to talk it out between ourselves. Dan, you spoke up first.
Daniel:
Som​e form of forestry or lumberjacking.
Tom:
I was thinking crop dusting. There are helicopter pilots who have two extra... they're not really blades, but things to throw out... pesticides on big fields.
Matt:
And I was thinking cherry drying. Because after a rain, helicopters will fly over fields low down to dry out the trees.
Tom:
Yes!
Matt:
So then rot doesn't set in on the cherries.
Tom:
Yes, this is... I think, California? Somewhere like that. Because a cherry crop can be ruined by one badly timed rainstorm.
Matt:
Yeah.
Tom:
So you have to dry them as quickly as possible. And there are cherry drying pilots on standby.
Charlotte:
​All very good ideas. All wrong, but that's okay.
Tom:
Eyyy!
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom:
Delive​red perfectly there, Charlotte. Thank you very much.
Matt:
Speci​fic helicopter knowledge.
Tom:
We have three nerds here who absolutely all thought, "Oh, we've got the answer to this one."
Daniel:
Nop​e. Perfect.
Matt:
(wheezes)
Tom:
But I thought you might be right down from blades.
Daniel:
Yea​h. So where are the blades gonna be? They're not going to be the typical blades on the top of the helicopter or the one at the back. Is it gonna be underneath? That's how I had it.
I know that there's been movies where you've got rotating saw blades underneath...
Matt:
Yes!
Daniel:
...​a helicopter, but...
Tom:
I mean, there haven't just been movies. There have been— that's an actual thing that exists.
Matt:
I've watched that. I've probably spent too long watching that on YouTube of people clearing forests next to power lines with what looks like a dangling circular— set of circular saws beneath a helicopter.
Tom:
Well, it doesn't look like it. It is.
Matt:
I've also seen videos of people inspecting power lines from a helicopter. And what they do there is, to stop arcing happening while they're inspecting the power line, the helicopter's hovering there, and then they stick out a... a rod.
So then it is connected or touching or resting on the power line, so then the helicopter's at the same potential as the power line, and then it won't spark. So maybe they call that a blade?
Tom:
This is the same reason that birds don't die if they land on a power line. Nothing's being earthed. So as long as the helicopter's, you know, safely tagged, it can work on live power lines. You can put someone on a live power line.
Matt:
Yeah.
Tom:
As long as you don't make a connection down to ground.
Daniel:
So why would the helicopter be making long, straight lines then? Is it going along the power line?
Matt:
I've seen people be dropped off by a helicopter. The helicopter jumps away and then as the helicopter's coming back, the stick comes— two blades. One on the person and one on the helicopter, so they can... Sistine Chapel their way together.
Tom:
That's​ not really a blade though, is it?
Daniel:
Ehh​.
Charlotte:
​You guys are right with the power lines.
Tom:
Ooh, okay.
Matt:
Helic​opters are used for remote power line inspection where you can't... Or it's either a long distance like it says in the question, or it's in in the middle of nowhere, or it's really hard to get to. So that is, yeah, that could be thru forests or up deserts or...
Daniel:
I'm​ still hung up on the long, straight lines bit. I think, that's what's fooling me. So whether you're gonna follow a path that's already there, hence long straight lines or you're going to make a path.
Tom:
No, I think that's you're following the power lines for some reason.
Matt:
Yeah.
Daniel:
But​— yeah, okay.
Matt:
'Caus​e they are laid out in straight lines. 'Cause it's cheaper.
Tom:
But it's not the forestry. It's not chopping the trees down, and it's... It's something else.
Matt:
So if it's not chopping trees... Blades still implies some chopping. So I'd be very surprised if a helicopter-mounted pair of secateurs was chopping wire.
SFX:
(Tom and Daniel giggle)
Matt:
becau​se those wires are massive and the amount of tension on them would mean it would whip and hit the helicopter.
Tom:
In both senses of the word tension.
Matt:
Yeah.
Daniel:
It feels to me like it's not the most safe way of cutting down a power line is to just chop through it with a helicopter. It feels slightly against health and safety.
Matt:
So if they need a new round for Schlag den Star, or whatever it's called.
SFX:
(Tom and Daniel laugh)
Matt:
That'​s a very specific reference.
Tom:
It is, it is, but...
Daniel:
I got it.
Tom:
Two of us appreciated it.
Charlotte:
​So what do you guys think would be the consequence if the blades didn't cut the power lines?
Matt:
Oh! Is it snippy bits on the end of the swishy bits of the helicopter in case the helicopter gets caught in the power lines? So it destroys the power grid, but it's more likely to not kill the pilots.
Charlotte:
​Very, very close. You're thinking along the right lines pretty much there, as opposed to the snippy bits around the blades of a aircraft where it would still get caught.
What do you think, how do you think these blades are positioned?
Matt:
On the helicopter's toesies?
Daniel:
(wheezes)
Tom:
In the pilot's handsies. He's just got a—
Matt:
(laughs heartily)
Tom:
You went with toesies. I'm going with handsies. He's just got a giant set of secateurs in case he needs to... cut a wire?
Matt:
Oh, on its tummy? On a little dangly thing on its tummy?
SFX:
(Charlotte and Matt laugh)
Charlotte:
​So, so the blades themselves are positioned above and below the helicopter, and they're used as sort of safety mechanisms for when a power line does come in contact with the helicopter.
The blades themselves kind of lead the lines into the sharp part, and then they cut them without injuring the pilot themselves.
Daniel:
Ahh​.
Matt:
Ahh.
Tom:
So if you accidentally fly up or down into a power line, it doesn't hit the rotor. It just slides down one of them, gets to the centre, chop. Right.
Matt:
It's like when a Musketeer does a block and the other sword slides outta the way into the... Hilt? Pommel?
Tom:
Yes.
Daniel:
It'​s essentially a defensive pommel. Defensive hilt.
Charlotte:
​Yes. Steve works as an inspector for the electricity companies, and he's checking to find any problems that he may encounter in the power line network.
The wire strike protection system was invented in the 1970s as a response to helicopter accidents that had struck electricity wires.
It consists of two spikes at the front of the helicopter: one above, and one below the cockpit. If a wire hits the aircraft, the spike guide the wire towards a hidden blade that slices the wire into two. The helicopter can then make a safe landing.
Matt:
I'm going to have a great time hyperfocusing on that later.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Thank you to Chris Tam for this next question.
In Belfast, Northern Ireland, there is a plaza that is encircled by 46 benches and 39 boxes for visitors to sit on. Why are they arranged in a particular pattern?
I'll say that again.
In Belfast, Northern Ireland, there is a plaza that is encircled by 46 benches and 39 boxes for visitors to set on. Why are they arranged in a particular pattern?
Daniel:
Sus​picious numbers. Suspicious numbers. Those are, you're given us specific numbers for reasons.
Tom:
You had a look on your face during that question, Dan, where I was like, oh, Dan has just got this.
Daniel:
Oh,​ I'm glad I look like I know things. This is excellent.
Tom:
(laughs)
Daniel:
46 benches and 39 boxes?
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
85 total?
Tom:
Yes.
Charlotte:
​This is a long shot, but perhaps because it's benches and boxes, it's long and short. So maybe something to do with Morse code.
Daniel:
(gasps) Ohh!
Matt:
Oh, wow!
Daniel:
Oh,​ and I know something about Belfast. That is where the Titanic was built. So there's a link with Morse there, because that sent out Morse.
Matt:
Does it just say "the Titanic" and "Morse"?
Daniel:
It sent out Morse— no. Have I gone too specific?
Tom:
Not quite.
Charlotte, spot on. Boxers and benches are dots and dashes. You've nailed it.
Dan... We're right. It's the Titanic.
But the question was, why are they arranged in a particular pattern? I'mma need to know a little bit more about that pattern. Doesn't just say "the Titanic".
Matt:
Is it just "SOS" on loop?
Tom:
You know what, Matt? You have kicked that one home. It is not SOS, but it is the distress call from the RMS Titanic.
Daniel:
Wow​.
Matt:
Wow.
Tom:
The message spells out: "DE", which would be, "this is", "MGY" repeated a few times. That's Titanic's call sign. And then "CQD" and "SOS" repeated. CQD was the old distress call, and SOS was the new one.
So yes, this is the Titanic Belfast Museum on the former grounds of the shipyard. It has an outline of the Titanic in white stone with more benches in there. But yes, the boxes and benches are dots and dashes of Titanic's distress call.
Well done, all three players on that question.
Daniel:
Oh f— Give that to Charlotte.
Matt:
Charl​otte all the way.
Charlotte:
​We all took it home!
Matt:
There​ is nothing more respectful than sitting on someone's distress signal.
SFX:
(Tom and Dan laugh uproariously)
Matt:
Matt,​ over to you for the next question. This question has been sent in by Huw Morris.
During World War II, Germany tested a new technology by jamming a British radar tracking station in Malta. How did the British stop this interference after just a few days?
During World War II, Germany tested a new technology by jamming a British radar tracking station in Malta. How did the British stop this interference after just a few days?
Tom:
They wiped the jam off.
SFX:
(silence)
Tom:
Never mind. Can't all be winners.
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Matt:
I understand the joke. It just wasn't good enough to laugh at.
Tom:
No, and I nicked it from Spaceballs, so never mind.
Daniel:
I don't know, despite... I did a degree in meteorology, so I know about radars in terms of radar systems in rain detecting. I don't really know how they work, to be honest. It'd send out a pulse and listen for it back, I guess.
Matt:
I mean, I'm a broadcast engineer by trade, and that's basically how I understand it too.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Charlotte:
​I'm gonna understand it even less and just ask, did they just change, you know, the channel that they were using?
Matt:
No.
Tom:
How would you jam radar? Again, we should all have knowledge of this, 'cause I've done videos on radar. Between us, we've all got some knowledge here, but I don't know... how you jam it.
I guess you just send out a load of confusing signals, but... It does have to be the right frequency. You're right.
Daniel:
Do you just look in a different direction? So they're sort of looking up at Germany from Malta – up being north –
Tom:
(laughs)
Daniel:
to just sort of look north...west instead? and look over there a bit? Because you have to sort of point your dish.
Matt:
There​ was no technology needed on the Allied side.
Daniel:
It'​s gonna be something innovative and silly, isn't it?
Tom:
(snickers)
Daniel:
Lik​e covering the radar dish in bread or something like that. And then the birds that come along and eat all the crumbs, actually scare off the radio waves, and I...
Tom:
I don't think you want birds near a radar dish.
Matt:
Unles​s you want dinner.
Tom:
Yeah.
SFX:
(Matt and Dan laugh)
Daniel:
Mmm​, cooking!
Tom:
Hold on. What year was this, Matt?
Matt:
Durin​g World War II.
Tom:
Okay. If you'd said something like 1945, I was gonna be like, they won the war.
Matt:
(wheezes)
Tom:
It just...
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
They won.
Daniel:
Yea​h.
Tom:
They really should've invented the radar jamming a bit earlier if they wanted to have any hope of it.
Matt:
(chuckles)
Daniel:
Rad​ar jamming! They wiped the jam off. I've just got it. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
SFX:
(Dan and Matt wheeze)
Tom:
(drinks spitefully) It's fine. It's fine.
Daniel:
(sputters)
Tom:
It does explain why the joke didn't get much of a reaction.
Daniel:
Yes​, I just— I didn't get it.
Charlotte:
​Don't worry, Matt. I got the joke first time as well, and...
Tom:
And just thought it wasn't funny. Thanks!
Matt:
Exact​ly, yeah.
SFX:
(Dan and Charlotte laugh)
Matt:
So back to the radar jamming. The jamming signal from the Germans. This was a genuine problem for the British.
Tom:
They found the jamming station. They went to the operator, they punched him in the face.
Matt:
(chuckles lengthily) No.
What simple thing did the British do to worry the Germans during all of this?
Daniel:
Ehh​, they did— they put up lots of fake places, didn't they? To fool Germans into thinking there's things over here, you know, subterfuge, that sort of thing.
So did they distract the Germans and try and get them to focus their radar jamming equipment on somewhere else, thus freeing up the base in Malta?
Matt:
Not, no, not that. But the British did call the bluff of their enemies.
Daniel:
Doe​s radar jamming just mean that the forces were just putting out loads and loads of signals so that we couldn't understand anything?
Matt:
As far as I understand it, basically. And the Germans would have no technological way to tell whether their jamming was working either.
Daniel:
Hmm​.
Charlotte:
​So did the British just keep going on course without changing anything, so that the Germans thought that literally nothing was happening, and then they were like, we're wasting our time putting all of our signals there?
Matt:
Yes, that is the exact answer. The British just pretended that the jamming didn't work.
Tom:
(laughs uproariously)
Matt:
(laughs) And continued as they were doing. And the Germans just got bored and stopped.
Daniel:
Tha​t's so psychologically brilliant.
Matt:
Well done, Charlotte.
Tom:
There'​s a couple of stories like that.
With the Enigma code breaking... there were a lot of very lucky observation craft that happened to spot some German boats or some German fighters or some German troops that just— the Germans were having terrible luck.
The observation planes just happened to run over them time and time again because that provided a reason for more troops to arrive later. Never mind they'd actually just sent the observation plane because they knew where they were from the breaking the code.
They had to have that deniability. So you just... you just pretend?
Daniel:
Tha​t's incredible.
Matt:
The radar station staff asked RV Jones of British Intelligence for his advice. He replied that the Germans measured the effectiveness of their jamming by monitoring whether the station continued to scan. Therefore, he suggested that the station continue its operations as normal.
After a few days, the Germans assumed that their jamming was not working, and simply gave up.
Daniel:
Oh,​ that's brilliant.
Matt:
The Germans only learned how this was done when German Signal Group head General Martini asked RV Jones after the war.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Matt:
And Malta was a strategically important base, being close to both mainland Europe and the north of Africa.
I have just noticed the name, General Martini.
Charlotte:
​Maybe they had the conversation over a martini.
Matt:
Yeah.
Tom:
Mhm.
Daniel:
I can see why you're on The Genius, Charlotte. That was excellent.
Matt:
Yeah,​ well done.
Charlotte:
​Perseverance is key, guys. Gotta keep going.
Tom:
Which leaves us with the question I asked right at the start of the show.
Thank you to Fiona Atkinson for sending this idea in.
To calm things down, why does Claire always play the drums on the same two dates every year?
Any guesses from the panel before I give the audience the answer?
Matt:
OCD.
Daniel:
I'm​ thinking fireworks. I'm thinking, is it a way to deal with pets and fireworks and to try and get them acclimatized or the opposite?
Tom:
Absolu​tely spot on. So what are the two days?
Daniel:
It would be, if it's in the UK, probably Guy Fawkes Night and...
Tom:
New Year's Day. And with that, the last question has been resolved. Let's find out, what's going on with the panel? Where can we find you? We will start with Charlotte.
Charlotte:
​Oh, I'm still studying. I'll still be studying for the next couple of years. And I'm still playing League, so you'll find me online on the Rift, or you'll find me in UCL.
Tom:
And presumably on ITV very soon.
Charlotte:
​Yes, you'll find me on ITV on the Genius Game.
Tom:
Matt.
Matt:
I am at @MattGrayYES everywhere. You should search for mattg.co.uk, and you'll find all of my links to my series, which includes Matt Gray is Trying.
Tom:
And Dan.
Daniel:
I stream a couple of nights on Twitch, so find me. I'm quizzydan on Twitch.
Tom:
And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere. There are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralc​ast and full video episodes on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Dan Peake.
Daniel:
Tha​nk you very much.
Tom:
Matt Gray.
Matt:
Thank​ you.
Tom:
Charlo​tte Yeung.
Charlotte:
​Thank you.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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