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Episode 134: The missing 'H'
Published 2nd May, 2025
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Which world championship gives out an award with a name that translates to 'Art Ball'?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a podcast in possession of good ratings must be in want of three guests. How fortunate then that we find ourselves in the company of such distinguished personages.
May I have the singular pleasure of presenting to our most honourable company the first of our eagerly anticipated patrons:
From Matt Gray is Trying, Matt Gray!
Matt:
Wow, what an introduction!
Tom:
I know, right? I get the script through, and this one just says, in brackets, "slightly posh".
Matt:
Okay.
Tom:
Not full posh. Just slightly posh.
Matt:
Well, I've prepared for this episode by also, you know, bringing up the level a little bit.
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
For the previous one, I was writing with a unicorn pen. But I thought I'd, you know, bring up the standard, and I'm now writing with a dinosaur pen.
Tom:
Excellent choices entirely. The right thing to do. You— how— what's the notebook? Is it anything fancy?
Matt:
It is a rainbow coloured Post-It note.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
You have a style, Matt. We all appreciate the style, and that's genuinely not sarcasm.
Matt:
(giggles)
Tom:
How was your last show? How are you doing?
Matt:
Oh, I'm all good. It was great to be back. I love the challenge of it.
I'm working on videos at the moment as well. I spoke about my Matt Gray is Trying series last time as...
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
I may as well go full promo as well as that on my YouTube.
Tom:
Yeah, go for it.
Matt:
I also make things out of 3D printing, electronics, and having a play with stuff. We're filming this in the middle of winter. It's probably summer by the time people listen to this.
Tom:
Yeah, probably. Well, yeah. The last time I helped you with a thing, we were on the streets of London with you dressed as a rave version of the Grim Reaper for Halloween.
Matt:
Which I made rainbowy and sparkly, (laughs) which is once again very much my style.
Tom:
Furthermore, may I also present a most amiable guest from her own YouTube channel, dress historian Bernadette Banner.
Bernadette:
I love you all most ardently.
SFX:
(Tom and Annie laugh)
Bernadette:
I don't have a proper teacup.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Bernadette:
It's like, aaah!
Tom:
Just happened to have the water glass. But with the pinkie out, which I appreciate.
Bernadette:
We can have a gluggle jug.
Tom:
A gluggle jug!
Matt:
Awh.
Bernadette:
His name's Gerard. We've given him a little bit of bling.
Tom:
This is the fish-shaped jug that just makes a wonderful noise through some fancy internal mechanism that I'm sure Steve Mould has made a video about.
Matt:
Can we hear it? Do you have enough water in it to—
Tom:
Can you give us a gluggle, please?
Bernadette:
Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. Gerard is so full now.
Tom:
Alright.
SFX:
(water pouring before glug)
(jug gurgles deeply)
Tom:
Ohh!
Matt:
Wow.
Annie:
Wow. Excuse you, Gerard.
Tom:
(laughs) Cheers.
Matt:
That was a more severe glug than I was expecting.
Annie:
(snickers)
Bernadette:
Sometimes he glugs so hard that he spits across the room. It's great.
Tom:
Bernadette, this episode is gonna go out quite a while after we record it. So, what are you working on right now that's gonna be out by the time this gets released?
Bernadette:
Ooh, probably I will have a recreation of a gown from Moulin Rouge, but done in the style of actual 1890s evidence that we have left to us. Because the film does take some liberties.
Tom:
(laughs)
Bernadette:
But I'm curious to know, what would this glorious beaded gown look like as an actual evening gown in 1899?
Tom:
Well, very best of luck with that project and with the show. And hopefully that is out by the time this makes it to air.
And... (clears throat) as charming as our other invitees perhaps combined, we acknowledge from the depths of Wikipedia, Annie Rauwerda, welcome back to the show.
Annie:
Hello, I'm excited to be here.
Tom:
Along with, as ever, the cat whose name I was really trying to remember, but didn't get back by the time I finished my introduction.
Annie:
That's okay. It's Pearl.
Tom:
Pearl! I should've known that.
Annie:
Yeah, Pearl the Cat.
Tom:
Is that a pun on purring?
Annie:
No, it's my great grandma's name. I asked my mom what to name it. She said, "Well, you should choose a family name." And so then that's just how it happened. But she's also a beautiful, you know, a beautiful gem.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Annie:
Yeah.
Tom:
How did you find the show last time you were here?
Annie:
How did I find the show? I had a ton of fun. I had a lot of wrong guesses, and I'm excited to be back.
Tom:
Well, very best of luck to you, to Pearl, to all three of our players.
And my script now just says, in brackets, "posh again".
So, upon my word, I believe the time has come to present our first inquiry, a matter of such delicacy and import that even Lady Catherine de Bourgh herself might raise an eyebrow.
Or in other words, question one.
Thank you to Florian for sending in this question. What kind of product is sold by a Swiss company that has the website lxbxh.ch?
I'll say that again.
What kind of product is sold by a Swiss company that has the website lxbxh.ch?
Matt:
it's gonna be a clock, a watch, or a chocolate. Or a well time— well-timed train.
Tom:
Are you just going off Swiss stereotypes there?
Matt:
Other than that, and armed citizens, that's I think all I know about Switzerland.
Bernadette:
Yeah, is it an equation of some sort, with... length times... Oh, I just said length. Oh, maybe it's length times something times height.
Matt:
A breadth. Length, breadth, and height. That's what a box is, isn't it?
Annie:
Length time— yeah. Length times height times base.
Tom:
You remember how last time, we went into the first question on the show... and we're like, oh, the producer's gonna get worried that these are falling really, really quickly?
Matt:
No!
Tom:
Matt, what did you just say?
Matt:
What like a box company?
Tom:
Is entirely correct. They are a packaging company from Switzerland.
Matt:
No!
Tom:
What does LxBxH stand for?
Bernadette:
Length times... Was it breadth or base?
Tom:
Length times breadth times height.
Bernadette, you got the words right. You got the equation right.
Matt, you kicked it home with cardboard boxes. I think—
Annie:
And I'm just happy to be here!
Tom:
(laughs abashedly)
I think that was under 60 seconds, or at least close to it?
Yes, this is the Swedish [sic] company LxBxH, which is the mathematical formula for the volume of a rectangular cuboid. They sell packaging boxes.
Matt:
Well, you said you were gonna get this show as sparkly as I am, and you're doing that by bringing out the sparkly extra questions straight away.
Tom:
(laughs uproariously)
We will head straight on to Matt's question.
Matt:
(cackles bewilderedly)
Tom:
What can I say? There's nothing else left! Y'all got it. The answer team have landed. And Matt... it's on you!
Matt:
(laughs)
Annie:
Matt Gray is trying and succeeding.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Matt:
Let's plow on then.
This question has been sent in by Arthur Evans.
Diane has a frog in her right hand. She brings it closer until it's almost touching her face, then pushes it away again. She repeats this a few hundred times while a crowd of people watch in amazement. What's happening?
Bernadette:
Modern art.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Annie:
Mm.
Matt:
Diane has a frog in her right hand. She brings it closer until it's almost touching her face, then pushes it away again. She repeats this a few hundred times while a crowd of people watch in amazement. What's happening?
Bernadette:
I think I know the answer to this.
Tom:
Oh god, it's on me and you then, Annie.
Annie:
I have really bad ideas.
Tom:
That's great. Go for them. 'Cause I've got no ideas.
Annie:
Okay. Idea number one. It's like The Princess and the Frog. And she's doing a reenactment.
Tom:
Yes.
Annie:
Idea number—
Bernadette:
Yeah.
Annie:
But she's doing like, I dunno, 200 performances in a day. Idea number two is that she's about—
Bernadette:
Or it's over a period of time?
Annie:
Yeah, maybe. Or she's about to eat it, but she's kind of teasing the audience, like, "I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna eat it."
Tom:
200 times?
Annie:
(laughs) I dunno. Those are the only ideas I have, so... What about you, Tom?
Tom:
Oh, well, okay. But now you're thinking Princess and the Frog. I've never seen the Disney version of that, but...
Matt:
What, have you only seen the real life version? (giggles)
Tom:
The—
Matt:
(surges cackle) Down your local pond?
Tom:
That's...
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Tom:
Could have phrased that better. You're right, Matt.
Matt:
(giggles profusely)
Tom:
I left an open goal there, and you just tapped the joke in. That's fair.
The reason I mention the Disney version is that, is this like an animatronic on a Disney ride? Because I know they just changed Splash Mountain to be a Princess and the Frog ride. So, could it be that this is just an animatronic that does that hundreds of times a day, and that the audience are going 'round on the log ride, staring at it is as they pass?
Matt:
Now, it could be something like that if it was, but it really isn't.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
Annie:
I don't think she's named Diane, is she?
Tom:
That's... That's a point. I do know what that name is, and it's gonna come back to me, and at some point, I'm gonna remember, but it's not Diane.
Bernadette:
Is it not the theatre performance of The Princess and the Frog? Because that was my answer.
Matt:
It is not.
Tom:
Oh! Oh, you're back in the game, Bernadette.
Bernadette:
Okay, so it's CPR ...on the frog. She's resuscitating it.
Annie:
In front of an audience.
Bernadette:
In front of an audience who are hoping that the frog will come back to life.
SFX:
(both wheeze)
Matt:
I'll give you a little clue here, I think? It's not a living frog.
Annie:
(gasps)
Tom:
Okay.
Matt:
So it wouldn't be CPR.
Tom:
I thought it might be like... a metaphorical frog or something that's named a frog, but is not the actual creature.
Annie:
Is she a magician or a performer who's "levitating" a frog?
Tom:
Oh yes, but I think you can actually levitate a frog. Well, you can't, but scientists have levitated a frog in a magnetic field before.
Annie:
You don't know that.
Tom:
That's true! I don't know that. You may be able to levitate frogs. I stand corrected. I should not make assumptions about the guests or their frog levitation abilities.
Annie:
Tom, maybe actually you can't levitate frogs.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Annie:
I levitate frogs all the time, okay?
Matt:
Sounds like a great insult. You frog levitating bastard.
Bernadette:
Is she making frog closures?
Tom:
Frog closures?
Bernadette:
Yeah, the swirly gimp closures that are very prevalent in Chinese dress?
Matt:
No, I have never heard of that. And I have a load of clues in front of me. But please tell us more.
Bernadette:
Yeah, they, I mean, they became very popular in the 19th century, these silk gimp... It's essentially like a cord that they would wrap very intricately, and they would be used as clos— knot— little knot buttons that you could then close capes and garments and... qipao and...
Tom:
And that feels like the sort of thing if you're sewing, that you do a repetitive action back and forth.
Bernadette:
Yeah, yeah.
Tom:
And bring the needle, the thread close to your face and back. Close to your face and back.
Bernadette:
Yeah, and if you're making the knot buttons, sometimes if you pull it with your teeth, then it gets the knot tighter.
Matt:
That is absolutely nothing to do with what we're doing.
Tom:
Aw.
Bernadette:
Does this have anything to do with knitting?
Matt:
...No?
Tom:
I feel like frog might be something mechanical. And it might be some kind of industrial thing. And just because it seems like the sort of nickname that would be given to... like one of those things that goes through pipes or something like, that, but... just a bit of industry that's used for something.
Matt:
Out of the two of you there, Tom, Tom was getting a bit closer.
Tom:
With industrial stuff or something sort of metallic or metal or... It's not even anything close
Matt:
Wider than that.
Tom:
– to a living frog. It's... It's a blob of stuff. It's plastic or something. Some physical thing.
Bernadette:
Is it like a whistle?
Matt:
You're heading in the right direction.
Annie:
The crowd was watching in amazement, weren't they? They love it. They're like, "More frog, more frog." What could this be?
Tom:
It was very specifically in the right hand. So, what's in the left? What position...
Annie:
Is it a trombone?
Tom:
Oh! Oh, is it the mute on the end of a trombone? Is that called a frog? But you wouldn't bring that closer or further away from your face.
Matt:
No, that's called a mute.
Tom:
That's called a mute, not a frog. You're right. I even used the word.
Matt:
Her hand... is palm side down.
Tom:
Palm side down?
Annie:
Is she a DJ, DJ?
Matt:
He-he-hee. Not quite the right grip. It's more of a pinch than a levitate.
Tom:
Are we talking like holding it with all five fingers down, like you're holding a tennis ball or something? Is it like a bit smaller than that, two fingers? What kind of grip are we talking about here?
Matt:
Pinch, think like a pinch.
Tom:
Pinch?
Bernadette:
Oh, was it an instrument?
Matt:
It is instrumental, yes.
Tom:
Ooh.
Bernadette:
Oh, is it a theremin?
Matt:
Oh, no. No, it isn't.
Tom:
Because you don't touch a theremin.
Matt:
Theremins are entirely non-contact. But they are pinchy. You make pinch hand movements when you're playing them.
Tom:
What palm side down— I'm making a pinching gesture palm side down, trying to work out what instrument...
Bernadette:
Oh, a harp?
Matt:
No, it's— you— We've had trombone, we've had harp, we've had whistle, the... All in the right category. One thing to think of might be... the speed of her hand movement is changing often.
Tom:
A vi... a violinist?
Matt:
Go on.
Tom:
Well... if you're moving your right hand back and forth near your face and back, near your face and back, that feels like you are— that feels like the bow hand for a violinist.
Matt:
Yes, that is correct.
Tom:
But I don't know what a frog is!
Matt:
And I had no idea either. I had never heard of this. And I have a reasonable bout of musical knowledge.
The frog is the part of the violin bow that adjusts the tension of the horse hair part of the bow itself. And the action of the frog moving towards Diane's face is simply her playing the violin.
Tom:
Huh!
Matt:
Many believe that the word originates from the word 'frock', a device that bow makers use to shape the frog.
Tom:
I didn't even know you could change the tension on a violin bow. I guess it makes sense.
Matt:
I think that's partially how they thread it on, and then they tighten it up like you would a guitar string. But this is just another string, so then you can get the right amount of grip as you— as it's being bowed, I think.
But well done, that was right. It's violin.
Tom:
So this question was a really complicated way of saying, what's the— this—
Matt:
What's the knob on the end of a bow?
Tom:
Yeah.
SFX:
(Matt and Annie laugh)
Tom:
This question's been sent in by Cory Ruchlin.
Penny is studying a map intently. She says to herself, "Scandinavia is definitely not safe for..."
Her friend Gerard interrupts: "Work?"
"No, Russia," replies Penny. What are they talking about?
I'll say that again.
Penny is studying a map intently. She says to herself, "Scandinavia is definitely not safe for..."
Her friend Gerard interrupts: "Work?"
"No, Russia," replies Penny. What are they talking about?
Matt:
Is Penny the girl from Inspector Gadget?
Tom:
Um... (wheezes) I don't know, but not in the case of this question.
Matt:
(wheezes) I don't know why that's where my mind went for this kind of crazy quiz question. I always like to just say the first thing that I think of, just in case.
Annie:
Well, the first thing I thought of was like, the horse's name was Friday. What if Scandinavia and Russia and work are all people? Probably not, but what if?
Bernadette:
Does it have anything to do with the acronym NSFW? But it's NSFR?
Tom:
Yes, that is a big step forward, Bernadette.
Bernadette:
Norway, Sweden, Finland, Russia.
Annie:
Oh, wow.
Tom:
It's happened again. It's happened again. (laughs exacerbatedly) You've got some of it there. That is a mnemonic for Denmark, Norway, Sweden. But that's not everything.
Matt:
Denmark?
Tom:
Yeah, we're on the Scandinavian countries here. Scandinavia is definitely not safe for...
Matt:
Oh, definitely.
Bernadette:
Oh, I see. D-N-F-S-R... D-N... yeah. FS. Wow, dyslexia.
Matt:
'Cause the... west to east... you're thinking of their extremities. Their order is Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Russia.
Tom:
It's roughly west to east order. You— it's not strictly there, but it's close enough. There is one other word in that sentence, which is 'is'.
Matt:
Iceland.
Tom:
Iceland. Sometimes counted as Scandinavian.
So this is, in roughly west to east order: "Is definitely not safe for..." would be Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland.
Which of those countries is Scandinavian, which isn't, which of those is the furthest west? All of these are... points that can argue.
But this is a personal anecdote from Cory, the question writer, who had basically that conversation.
Matt:
I suppose if I go full British, I'll decide for them about something else in the world that I have no right to decide.
Tom:
Yes, yes. That's how it goes(!)
Annie:
And yeah, just pull out a pen, draw kind of a shaky line.
Tom:
Yeah.
Matt:
It's also wiggly. I'll just use a ruler and draw a straight line on the map. There has never been a problem with that(!)
Tom:
Annie, it is over to you for the next question.
Annie:
Are you ready to rumble?
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Annie:
That's not— has nothing to do with what this question is about. I just wanted to say it.
Tom:
And let's be honest. I'm 70 kilos of asthma. So never, literally never.
SFX:
(Annie and Matt laugh)
Annie:
This question has been sent in by Cheryl Dostaler.
In Oregon City, USA, a graveyard contains the shared grave of Glen and Marie Pendergraft. The headstone states that Glen died in 1965, but Marie's year of death contains six characters. Why?
One more time.
In Oregon City, USA, a graveyard contains the shared grave of Glen and Marie Pendergraft. The headstone states that Glen died in 1965, but Marie's year of death contains six characters. Why?
Tom:
Here is the nerdiest possible joke answer to this. She's a member of the Very Long Nail Foundation. That didn't land with anyone. The Long Nail Foundation, they promote...
Matt:
Is that... KLF?
Tom:
No, no. Long Nail Foundation is a group that promotes extremely long-term thinking. And in all their press releases and website and everything like that, they put a zero leading on the year. They say right now that it's 02025.
So if you have six characters, she's just one-upping them. She's just really long-term thinking.
Annie:
(giggles)
Bernadette:
Is she incorporating a month or a day? To differentiate from Glen?
Tom:
You said characters, not numbers. So maybe it's just like, "Not yet." She's still alive. She had the gravestone made anyway. Just not yet.
Annie:
I like "not yet." I wish that were the answer.
Matt:
Oh, it'd be great if it just said "soon".
Tom:
No!
Matt:
(giggles and wheezes) I think I've got the answer.
Tom:
Oh?
Bernadette:
Do tell.
Tom:
It's gonna be great if you have it. It's gonna be great if you haven't.
Matt:
Are the six characters 'MCMLXV'?
Annie:
(snickers) (shakes head)
Tom:
Ohhh!
Matt:
'Cause that's 1965 in Roman numerals, I think.
Tom:
MCMLXV. Yeah, it is.
Bernadette:
That would've been a good one.
Tom:
That was a cracking answer!
Matt:
I thought I'd work it out, but I was expecting it to be more characters. And it's the same number of characters.
But I don't know why you'd stylistically... from a design standpoint, having Arabic numerals next to Roman numerals will look silly.
Tom:
Maybe she just really liked the Roman Empire.
Annie:
(laughs)
Matt:
She's a time traveller. She died in the far, far future.
Bernadette:
But she wanted to be buried in 1965.
Tom:
Mm, yes.
Matt:
Mm.
Bernadette:
Just for nostalgia.
Annie:
(laughs)
Matt:
Ooh! Are they illustrators? And are the six characters, six characters? Like comic characters?
Tom:
Oh!
Matt:
Or something like that? Like, Charlie Brown and all of his friends.
Tom:
Wait, how exactly was the question phrased?
Annie:
Marie's year of death contain six characters.
Tom:
Ooh.
Annie:
What characters do you think would be on it?
Tom:
Okay. It's not gonna be like Peanuts. That's Charles Schultz.
Matt:
It's a game of name old cartoons now, isn't it?
Tom:
Yeah, it is.
Annie:
Okay, no, I was just wondering what characters do you want to be on it. It's— They're not that type of characters. They're like—
Matt:
Oh, Pokémon, if it's me, I'd want it to be Pokémon.
Bernadette:
It's like, is it like a memento mori, where you've got dancing skeletons or something?
Matt:
Awwh!
Annie:
No, these characters are letters, symbols, numbers, that sort of character.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
Annie:
I was just— I just wondered what ones you wanted to imagine.
Matt:
Wingdings.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Annie:
So it doesn't use any unusual calendar system.
Tom:
Okay.
Annie:
And... one of the characters is not a number.
Matt:
Decimal?
Tom:
Hyphen! Did she...
Matt:
Die slowly over the new year?
Tom:
That's what I was thinking.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Matt:
(laughs uproariously)
Annie:
(giggles)
Tom:
Like she, she died across the International Date Line, or she— Oh no.
Annie:
(laughs heartily)
Tom:
She happened to die on the border between two time zones, when one was in one year, and one was the other. And so her death year is like 1967/8.
Bernadette:
Is it— Does she just have a D and a full stop, and then the year?
Annie:
No, that would be pretty boring. That would be too boring for this podcast, I think.
Bernadette:
It is six characters.
Annie:
(laughs)
Matt:
CE.
Tom:
Oh. Oh, I would've been AD back then, but yeah. But why would you only do that on one number?
Matt:
Because the other one was born in 1965 BC.
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
They happen to share a grave, but it is a very longstanding grave.
Bernadette:
She was an archeologist, and she really just wanted to be buried next to her own mummy.
Matt:
Aww. Now that's a family grave.
Tom:
Well, so, so is it like year, symbol, number, right? It's like four blank one, and then there's something else in there.
Annie:
Mhm.
Tom:
Okay.
Matt:
I'm just thinking, 'cause you could write it as base 10 or whatever. She could have been a mathematician, and he wasn't, so it's... for some reason specifying that 1965 or whatever year she died is in base 10. But that would be three characters extra, which...
Annie:
I like this math— the math idea. That's interesting. Keep going with that. Another thing is that she lived to be 98 years old. That's very old. And that was a surprise.
Matt:
I wasn't it like, doing it like with an e to say times 10 to the whatever? Or approximate.
Tom:
Did they have to correct the gravestone?
Annie:
Keep going with this.
Tom:
'Cause particularly years ago, years ago, you would have a husband and wife grave. And sometimes you would... etch in the wife's details when the husband's grave was made if he went first. And if she was expected to die soon... did they have to... correct the year?
Annie:
What year would they have to correct? What would they have to correct?
Matt:
Did she cross the millennium?
Tom:
They put a 19 on it! Is this a gravestone with the millennium bug?
Annie:
(giggles deeply) Yes.
SFX:
(Matt and Tom laugh)
Annie:
So what would the characters be? What would the characters be at the end?
Matt:
Plus?
Annie:
Mhm.
Matt:
1999 + 5.
Bernadette:
Oh, plus.
Tom:
Oh!
Annie:
Yup, 1999 + 9.
Tom:
I assumed they just hammered out the 19 and put like a 20 in there, but the 1999 + 9 is amazing!
Annie:
The headstone was prepared in 1965 when Glen died. Marie's years were pre-inscribed with 1909 to 19... left blank.
Bernadette:
Oh!
Annie:
However, she actually lived to the year 2008. To get around having to redo the headstone, the engraver adjusted it to say 1999 + 9 to be at least mathematically correct.
Matt:
That's funny, 'cause I would've chosen to just cross out that.
Tom:
Yeah.
Matt:
And then write it again rather than do the maths.
Tom:
Or if the family could afford it, perhaps a new headstone(!)
Matt:
Yeah, but that's pricey.
Tom:
That is pricey.
Annie:
I kinda wanna— Maybe I should put a math equation on my gravestone just for fun.
Bernadette:
Just make people stand there and get their calculators out to do the complex formula.
Annie:
Yes, this gravestone has six characters because they pre-inscribed the 19 without realizing she would live so long.
Tom:
Thank you to Greg Conroy for this question.
During the 15th century, how did a skills shortage cause an innovative business to add 'H' in a spirit?
I'll say that again.
During the 15th century, how did a skills shortage cause an innovative business to add 'H' in a spirit?
Bernadette:
It has something to do with the plague, right?
Tom:
Why would you say that?
Sorry, that sounded incredibly accusatory. Why do you think that?
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Why would you say that! Why would you mention the plague!
Bernadette:
It's obvious! The plague killed off tons of people, and there was a massive skill shortage. So is spirit, is that like a... Hmm what is, what's spirit? Like a tincture?
Annie:
I'm thinking like Jesus H. Christ. You know how people do that as a curse?
Tom:
Oh, that is such a lovely answer. And it's really clever. And adding H in the middle of... as the Holy Spirit, brilliant gag. Unfortunately, completely wrong, but I appreciate it.
Annie:
We have a shortage of priests, so we actually instead, we'll be doing a different version of this.
SFX:
(chuckles)
Annie:
Okay, well I guess it's not that. A spirit, I'm thinking alcohol or something. Maybe it was spelled A-L-C-O-H-O-L or something, but they added an H. Probably, I don't know.
Matt:
Oh, with spelling, the word 'ghost' has got an 'H' in it that it doesn't need to have in it.
Annie:
Ooh.
Tom:
Keep going, Matt.
Matt:
(cackles) I know a lot of our spellings now are because people that didn't actually know how to write ended up writing books and stuff.
Annie:
And does skill shortage— I was imagining like, you know, something with the workforce. But maybe it's just like, yeah, this person didn't really have a lot of spelling skills.
Matt:
Was it someone on a typing press, and they made a mistake, and it kept getting replicated?
Tom:
Sort of, yes. You have identified the printing press, and you have identified the word. It is putting the 'H' in 'ghost'. What you have not identified is the skills shortage.
Bernadette:
They had a lack of typesetters?
Annie:
No proofreaders?
Tom:
Hmm. They had a lack of typesetters. This was William Caxton, importing the printing press to London in 1476.
Matt:
Wasn't there something about Belgian or Dutch people printing our things, and that's where some of our spellings come from, 'cause it didn't look right to them?
Tom:
Straight out the dregs of your memory, Matt. You are correct.
Matt:
Yay!
Tom:
Absolutely right.
Caxton needed experienced workers, so he recruited people from continental Europe, particularly Bruges. And in Flemish, the word for ghost is spelled... It's gheest. It's G-H-E-E-S-T.
And the Flemish typesetters looked at the word and went, "That needs an H in it."
Matt:
(laughs)
Bernadette:
Yeah, because the original Old English word would've been spelled G-A-S-T. Spirit.
Tom:
Yes. Gast, gest, or—
Matt:
Oh, like Gastly.
Tom:
Or poltergeist or anything like that. You went for the Pokémon reference. I went for Poltergeist.
Matt:
Oh, not intentionally, but yes. (laughs)
Tom:
Yeah, 'cause the word 'ghastly' has an H in it. The Pokémon Gastly does not.
Matt:
No it doesn't. (cackles profusely)
Tom:
Why did that particular spelling catch on? We've sort of mentioned this already.
Annie:
Jesus H. Christ.
Tom:
Uhm...
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Tom:
Kind of, yeah.
Annie:
Let's involve Christ in every word.
Bernadette:
It was holy. The Holy H.
Tom:
The Holy...
Bernadette:
Holy host.
Tom:
The Holy Ghost.
Annie:
The Holy Ghost.
Bernadette:
Oh!
Matt:
The religious people, monks and stuff, were the ones that could read and write, and they did all the first books back in...
Tom:
Yep.
Matt:
All books were religious ones.
Tom:
But now the Bible is being printed, and it is being printed by Belgians who have written 'Holy Ghost' throughout. So that is how a skills shortage caused an 'H' in a spirit. It was the 'H' in 'ghost'. Bernadette, it is over to you for your question.
Bernadette:
Thank you, kind sir.
This question has been sent in by Arthur Evans.
Michelangelo's 16th century painting The Entombment shows Jesus Christ's body being carried to his tomb. He's surrounded by other biblical figures such as St. John and Mary Magdalene. Why is there a large, blank silhouette on the right-hand side?
Tom:
That's the Holy Ghost.
Annie:
(chuckles)
Bernadette:
Oh yeah. You have to leave room for Jesus.
Tom:
(laughs)
Annie:
(snickers)
Bernadette:
Oh, I guess Jesus is already there. Anyway.
SFX:
(Matt and Tom laugh uproariously)
Bernadette:
Michelangelo's 16th century painting The Entombment shows Jesus Christ's body being carried to his tomb. He's surrounded by other biblical figures such as St. John and Mary Magdalene. Why is there a large, blank silhouette on the right-hand side?
Anyone here a member of the Jesus fandom and know the Lord?
Tom:
(titters)
Matt:
(cackles)
Bernadette:
Because I sure don't.
Matt:
I'm not a member of the fandom, but I think I've seen some stuff on AO3.
Tom:
Oh my God.
SFX:
(guests snickering)
Annie:
Hey, you guys don't go to the conventions?
Matt:
(gasps)
Annie:
They have every week?
Tom:
Before we get a papal bulletin issued against us... I'm gonna go with, there was a mistake. It is the 16th century equivalent of Tipp-Ex.
There was just someone in the painting who wasn't supposed to be there, and he just got painted over.
Matt:
Or like when someone's got a Starbucks cup in a period drama by accident.
Tom:
Yeah, just paint it out. That's fine.
Bernadette:
Not really.
Tom:
Hmm, okay.
Annie:
Was there somebody there who... they didn't know what this person looks like, or they didn't want to make an image? I don't know. You know how some people don't want to make iconography of religious figures?
Tom:
Yeah.
Annie:
For respect reasons?
Bernadette:
There was supposed to be another person there.
Annie:
Oh, somebody didn't show up. Someone didn't show up to the burial.
Bernadette:
Mm. Showing up late.
Annie:
Judas, Judas! Judas didn't show up because he betrayed Jesus.
Bernadette:
Showing up late with a period unconventional Starbucks cup.
Tom:
(laughs)
Annie:
(snickers)
Tom:
But if it was someone who wasn't meant to be there in the painting, you just wouldn't paint them in.
Matt:
Which is why I was thinking, is it censorship? Was that large, blank silhouette there in the original version of the painting? Has someone come along and tried to correct the history of that artwork?
Tom:
Oh, like the... the Jesus painting that got "fixed". by that person. The Monkey Jesus photo.
Annie:
Yeah.
Matt:
Was it a woman? People like writing women out of history(!)
Tom:
That's true.
Bernadette:
Incidentally, yes, but I don't think it was done intentionally.
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
Bernadette:
I mean, you never know. He could just be making an excuse.
Annie:
Wow, so it was a woman that got painted over. Mary the mother, because you talked about Mary Magdalene. But that's a different lady from Mary, the mother of Christ, right?
Bernadette:
Yeah, Mary, the mother of Christ is not in the picture.
Annie:
(gasps)
Tom:
Mary... So is it Mary that's been painted out?
Annie:
Jesus' wife?
Bernadette:
Does Jesus have a wife?
Annie:
You know how there's theories of Jesus having a wife?
Matt:
Well, he was just some bloke. So that makes sense.
Tom:
(laughs)
Bernadette:
So we have this painting. We're missing a section of the painting. And we know there's a figure that's supposed to be there. It's probably a woman. Jesus' mother is not in the picture.
Matt:
So Jesus was in his mid 30s when he died.
Tom:
Wait, wait, wait, wait. How exactly was the question phrased? Is this painted over, or is it literally missing? Is it literally been cut out somehow?
Bernadette:
Oh, there is a large blank silhouette on the right-hand side. It's blank.
Tom:
'Cause I was thinking it's somehow been cut out and used in some other religious collage somewhere in history.
Matt:
Was he gonna paint it in later, but the... What's it, you know, like life drawing, where you get someone standing in there as a reference? Was the reference to that person never turned up, and then Michelangelo died before he finished it, or something stupid like that?
Bernadette:
That's not far from the truth. He was intending to paint this in later, but it wasn't because of a missing person. A missing model, I should say.
Annie:
Was it like, okay, hey everybody, Jesus has died, and here he is, we're carrying to the burial site. And in a couple years, and then we're all gonna, you know, see this blank part where Jesus isn't? He should be, but he is not there, because he's dead, and then in a while, we're gonna celebrate Easter, and I'll paint Jesus in 'cause he's back. He came back to life.
Tom:
Ooh.
Bernadette:
Not quite as close.
Matt:
Did someone nick the painting before he'd finished it?
Tom:
Was it meant to be like an image of his patron? Or his patron's wife or something like that? And then the patron never turned up for the... to have— to get painted in?
Because I think that was a thing in older art, that people in the background or certain faces would be the artist's patron.
Matt:
I'm now trying to work out what Jesus Christ would be posting on his Patreon.
Tom:
(laughs)
Annie:
Hey guys, watch me turn five loaves of bread into 5,000.
Bernadette:
Behind the scenes!
Tom:
That's a MrBeast video.
Matt:
If you subscribe at the second tier, I'll send you one of the loaves.
Annie:
(laughs)
Tom:
I'm thinking of Michelangelo having a Patreon now!
Matt:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom:
Which is basically like, it's a different thing, but getting painted into the art... is kind of a tier on Patreon.
Matt:
You know, you can order that. I heard recently you can order yourself an oil painting in that kind of Renaissance style.
From— there's a town in China, I think? Because China tends to organise itself by industry, and I think there's a whole industry of people who are artists and will— you can just email them a photo of you, and they'll send back a oil painting of you on a horse.
Bernadette:
Sometimes if you're lucky, you live— you're related to someone who does that, but with guinea pigs.
Tom:
Oh yes! The wall behind you is literally oil paintings of guinea pigs in Renaissance costumes. We talked about this before.
Also, thank you to David the Producer. Dafen Oil Painting Village in Shenzhen, China is known as the world's art factory.
Bernadette:
Okay, so aside from the fact that guinea pigs were introduced as domesticated pets for... as a novel domesticated pet in Europe in the 16th century, so this could be possible, that is sadly not the answer. And neither is the patron answer. It is a figure from Biblical lore.
Tom:
I think we've gotta take a clue, Bernadette.
Bernadette:
Okay, who... Oh, well I guess we kind of did this. But we should... decide for sure on this. Who the prominent figure is, who should be included in this scene?
Annie:
Mary?
Bernadette:
Yeah. Mary is not in the picture. But she... probably should be?
Tom:
Alright. So Michelangelo was probably intending to paint Mary in later?
Bernadette:
Yes.
Tom:
Huh.
Bernadette:
But why didn't he?
Matt:
Michelangelo, I've got it.
Tom:
If this is a Ninja Turtles joke, I swear!
Matt:
(wheezes profusely) Was it because the pizza delivery guy turned up?
Tom:
There we go!
Matt:
And he was distracted as he was about to paint her in.
SFX:
(Annie and Matt laugh uproariously)
Matt:
You know me too well!
Bernadette:
So what is necessary about depicting Mary?
Annie:
Oh, doesn't— don't it— They sometimes put that halo or something? I don't know what I'm talking about.
Bernadette:
Yeah, she has very specific imagery about her.
Matt:
Does she wear a shawl over her head?
Bernadette:
Yeah, yeah. What's special about this shawl?
Annie:
I don't know. I haven't seen her. I don't know that lady!
Bernadette:
Or her clothes in general.
Matt:
A bit white and blue? Had he run out of those colours?
Annie:
(gasps)
Bernadette:
Yes!
Tom:
Oh!
Bernadette:
Actually that is... Why would he run out of blue?
Tom:
Pigments are just difficult back then. It's not like you go down the art shop. If pigments had to be mined
Matt:
You had to make your own.
Tom:
and created. And if there was some disruption to the 16th century equivalent of a supply chain... there might just not be any blue for paintings.
Bernadette:
Exactly, yeah.
Michelangelo wanted to include the Virgin Mary in the painting and left a space for her. However, her blue cloak would've required the ultramarine pigment, which at the time was made from crushed lapis lazuli gemstones, which was very expensive and difficult to obtain.
Matt:
So is there just a bare piece of canvas then, in that part or whatever material is painting?
Bernadette:
It kind of looks like someone just tore the painting away. But I think it is blank. But what is curious is there is a tiny patch of blue sky up in the corner. So I guess maybe he had a little bit of blue.
Matt:
Is that the equivalent of when you're writing with a biro, and the inks run out? But with paint?
Bernadette:
Yeah, I guess so. Or he wanted a very specific shade of blue for the cloak that isn't like sky adjacent blue.
Annie:
What's more important? A little piece of sky in the background or this Jesus guy's mom?
Bernadette:
Yeah, why don't you just make it a stormy day?
Annie:
I think the mom. Make her really small. I don't know.
Matt:
Oh, little tiny stick figure Mary.
Tom:
Which brings us to the question I asked at the start of the show.
Thank you to Jack Slater for sending this in.
Which world championship gives out an award with a name that translates to 'Art Ball'?
Anyone want to take a guess at that?
Bernadette:
A sport that I might actually be good at.
Matt:
Is it the... genital tattooing championship?
Tom:
Art ball. I see what you did there.
Annie:
Well, I was thinking like the Super Bowl, the Orange Bowl, the Art Bowl. But it's...
Tom:
Oh no, just to be clear, 'cause of my accent: ball. B-A-L-L, not bowl.
Annie:
This is very much like a... the ocean division felt very apparent there 'cause I was thinking Super Bowl, which is so very of me.
Matt:
Is it a snowman making competition? 'Cause you make them out of balls of snow?
Tom:
The name is derived from another famous trophy.
Matt:
The only famous trophy I can think of right now is the FA Cup.
Tom:
That is the right sport
Matt:
Football?
Tom:
for the pun it's making.
The sport is not football, but this is a pun on a very famous trophy from association football.
Bernadette:
Okay, I am out. I know nothing about any of the words that you're saying here.
Tom:
For those who know nothing about sport: Soccer has the Ballon d'Or, the golden ball.
Which sport might translate as 'Art Ball'? Or how would you translate that back to French? You've got the Ballon d'Or.
Matt:
Ballon d'Art.
Tom:
Mm.
Matt:
Dart, dart.
Tom:
Yes!
Matt:
Well, Ballon d'Art. Dart.
Tom:
Yes. This is the PDC World Darts Championship, who looked at the Ballon d'Or, and decided that their best player, the one who got the most maximums in their tournament, would get the Ballon d'Art.
Bernadette:
Wow.
Matt:
I love a terrible wordplay pun.
Tom:
A terrible sport wordplay pun. That was... You got there in the end.
Thank you very much to all of our players. Let's find out, what's going on in your lives? Where can people find you?
We will start with Bernadette.
Bernadette:
Hi, you can find me on YouTube talking about all things of dress history, and doing reconstructions of things that might have existed in history.
Tom:
And where can people find you?
Bernadette:
Bernadette Banner, YouTube, Instagram, probably other places that I've reserved the username and then forgotten exist.
Tom:
Annie.
Annie:
I'm on some various social medias as @DepthsOfWikipedia or @AnnieRAU.
Tom:
And Matt.
Matt:
I am at @MattGrayYES on all the socials. Or if you go to mattg.co.uk, you can see links to everywhere you can find me on the internet.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show or send in your own idea for a question, you can do that at lateralcast.com. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Matt Gray.
Matt:
Yay!
Tom:
Annie Rauwerda.
Annie:
Yeah!
Tom:
Bernadette Banner.
Bernadette:
Yay.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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