Get the RSS feed or search “Lateral” on your podcast app
| Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode |
Episode 138: A confusing refreshment
Published 30th May, 2025
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
When might you show someone your social six?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
(startles) Okay, folks, someone's pressed the play button again. Everyone stand by. (clears throat)
Hello, welcome to the Lateral podcast. You are today's listener number 35,406. We'll do another run through just for you, but I must admit that it does get a little bit repetitive after the first 20,000.
So, ready to force a smile for the next 40 minutes, we have one half of the Sad Boyz podcast returning to the show:
Jordan Adika, welcome back.
Jordan:
Pow​, pow, pow. Not real guns.
Tom:
Eyy!
Jordan:
Jus​t the finger gun stuff. I gotta stop doing that. Not a threat. Thank you for having me.
Tom:
(chuckles) How did you feel last time? It was your first time on the show.
Jordan:
Wel​l, I think we can pretty conclusively— I know there's no points, but we can pretty conclusively say I got every single one of them right.
SFX:
(Tom and Mary laugh)
Jordan:
And​ I was— I think I did especially well on my question.
Tom:
Yep, yep.
Jordan:
Pre​tty fantastic on it.
Tom:
You have to be careful though. You're setting yourself up for a fall there. You gotta keep the standard high.
Jordan:
I was gonna say, if I do well again, it's an indication of my intelligence. And if I don't do well, it's a joke and I was kidding.
SFX:
(Tom and Mary giggle)
Tom:
That is the correct strategy to take. Very best of luck with the show today.
You are joined by your compatriot, the other half of the Sad Boyz podcast:
Jarvis Johnson, welcome back.
Jarvis:
Tha​nks for having me. Jordan and I are now estranged, as of the events of the last episode, and I'm hoping we can mend our relationship today.
Tom:
You did just suddenly come up with the gag that actually, you're not halves anymore. You're just taking the podcast. I'm assuming that you're all settled up.
Jarvis:
Yea​h, you say gag, but I think this is history being made. This is the end of our professional relationship. Or the beginning of a new one. Let's find out.
SFX:
(Jordan and Tom wheeze)
Jordan:
We'​re kind of co-parenting the podcast now. Weekdays for Jarvis.
Tom:
Oh, each of you gets it for half of the podcast.
Jordan:
Yes​, yeah.
Tom:
Halfwa​y through, you just suddenly have to hand over and—
Jarvis:
Yes​, same length. Just two— So two halves of solo podcasts.
Jordan:
(snickers)
Tom:
Well, best of luck to both of you jointly and separately.
The third member of the panel today, we have singer-songwriter and music YouTuber:
Mary Spender, welcome back.
Mary:
Thank​ you for having me. And I can announce I am now the child of the Sad Boyz podcast.
Tom:
(giggles)
Mary:
I'm being co-parented. (snickers) I'm the other guest.
Jarvis:
Man​y headlines.
Mary:
One of the boys, you know.
Jarvis:
Man​y headlines are being created from this episode of Lateral.
Jordan:
Wha​t's nice too is it means that all of your music and output technically is mine.
Mary:
Yes, yeah. You can have all the money that comes from that streaming income too, darling.
Tom:
But you have to hold it in a trust fund until Mary reaches...
Mary:
Until​ it's 18.
Jarvis:
Unt​il you're older, yeah.
Jordan:
Yea​h.
Mary:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Whi​ch, and let me tell you, I promise the casino I'm going to is only gonna increase it.
Tom:
(cackles softly)
Mary:
Perfe​ct.
Tom:
Well, best of luck to all of you.
Actually, now think about it, we should have just recorded this show instead of doing it live, but it's too late now. So for the 35,406th time, here's question number one.
Thank you to Alex for this question.
LEGO stopped using cadmium sulphide as a dye in the 1980s, due to the potential toxicity to kids. However, they considered adding barium sulfate – often used as a white dye – also due to kids. Why?
I'll give you that one more time.
LEGO stopped using cadmium sulphide as a dye in the 1980s, due to the potential toxicity to kids. However, they considered adding barium sulfate – often used as a white dye – also due to kids. Why?
Jarvis:
My first thought is that kids might try to eat the LEGO. So maybe barium sulfide makes them taste bad.
Jordan:
Tha​t— Well, like a Nintendo Switch cartridge.
Mary:
I was thinking kids have sticky fingers that might take off the paint or something that the kids have... I think edible is probably safer, isn't it?
Jarvis:
The​ cadmium is... It's toxic, right? It's like what they put in those McDonald's Shrek cups or whatever.
SFX:
(Jordan and Tom laugh)
Jarvis:
And​... and the... And the barium is, they're doing it for kids, but not for a negative reason. So they're considering adding it...
Tom:
Due to kids.
Jarvis:
Due​ to kids, but not to their detriment. So, it has to be for their safety. But they didn't.
Jordan:
I mean, I can say I'm considering it. Yeah, I considered putting like vitamin B12, and I just didn't.
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Mary:
Okay,​ so touch or they put things in their mouths and choking hazards and maybe it's something...
Jordan:
Oh,​ does it taste nice?
Mary:
Mmh..​. I'm not sure they want to encourage the kids to eat them, Jordan.
Jarvis:
Oh,​ is it—
Mary:
So is it so that it can be digested and... Is that too gruesome? If a kid eats something, surely it needs to pass through it.
Tom:
Partic​ularly if it's made of plastic. At that point I think it's mostly macro plastic.
Jarvis:
'Ca​use this is just, yeah, this is just the paint. Or this is just like kind of the external... Or, er, I guess the LEGO is fully the color.
But one thought, you mentioned that they did not end up doing it. So, is it possible that they discovered that it did taste good, or that it could be more alluring to kids? And then in testing, they bailed for that reason?
Jordan:
Asb​estos paint.
SFX:
(Tom and Mary crack up)
Tom:
You have identified that this is to do with eating LEGOs.
Jordan:
Oka​y. That really is the only other thing that kids do with LEGOs.
Tom:
Yeah. (laughs)
Jordan:
It'​s leave them in the way of a parent and eat them.
Mary:
To step on with bare feet.
Tom:
Yep.
Mary:
Yeah.
Tom:
Or insert the tiny studs up their nose, yeah.
Jordan:
Yea​h, the nose is real risky.
Mary:
I did do that.
Jarvis:
If it doesn't make them taste bad, does it make them smell bad?
Mary:
But we've all had LEGO. Right?
Tom:
Yeah.
Mary:
And it's never had a... It's never had a smell.
Jarvis:
Thi​s was never implemented, right?
Tom:
They didn't, no.
Mary:
So...​ Touch, taste.
Jordan:
I don't— I have a very weak understanding of... the natural world and the elements.
SFX:
(Tom and Jordan laugh)
Jordan:
Is there anything— What was the name of the thought about?
Tom:
Barium​ sulfate, and that is important.
Jordan:
Bar​ium. Berry, tasty, tastes good.
Mary:
Sound​s not tasty.
Tom:
It does have another famous application.
Mary:
Medic​al application?
Tom:
Hmm, medical.
Mary:
So it does something to you. Does it do something good or bad?
Tom:
It actually does very little to you in itself.
Jarvis:
But​ when combined with something that may already be... something that kids are already doing, it could become a hazard. Maybe.
Jordan:
Oh.​ Maybe something else they ingest?
Tom:
This was actually to help kids. Or maybe more than that, help their parents.
Jarvis:
It'​s like a sedative?
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Mary:
Oh, does it— does it glow or something? Does it glow? So like if you had like an ultrasound because the kid had swallowed it, that it would show up?
Jarvis:
Or just glow in the dark.
Tom:
You're​ very close. That's not the right technology, but you're very close.
Mary:
It shows up in something that—
Tom:
Yep.
Mary:
In an X-ray?
Tom:
Yes. Yes, it does. Have you ever heard of a barium meal?
Mary:
Oh, so you have to ingest something so that it can detect, and then you go in an X-ray, and it shows— Right.
Jordan:
Oh,​ like a coating liquid for...
Tom:
Yep.
Jordan:
I forget the— yeah.
Tom:
Absolu​tely right, Mary.
Mary:
My mother, who is a nurse in the NHS, will be ashamed of me for not putting that together.
SFX:
(Tom and Mary laugh)
Mary:
I was never a science nerd.
Jordan:
I think nurses in the NHS have their own problems right now. Why not have podcast time?
Tom:
Yeah, LEGO does not show up on X-rays. It's reported that the company considered adding barium sulfate so that doctors would be able to detect them. It is harmless, it doesn't dissolve in water.
It was found that barium sulfate made the plastic more brittle, and the plan was dropped.
Mary:
Wow, so you still cannot detect a LEGO ...on an X-ray.
Tom:
No, but you can still give someone a barium meal and see if there's a blockage.
Jarvis:
Yea​h, they were thinking of doing it to help kids. But when they realized it hurt their bottom line...
Jordan:
Yes​, yeah.
Jarvis:
Tha​t's not...
Mary:
The product.
Jarvis:
Tha​t's where we draw the line.
Jordan:
I think, well, it was probably the... It's probably a Scandinavian mindset of... (thick accent) "Well, it's for Darwinism."
SFX:
(group guffawing)
Mary:
Survi​val of the fittest.
Tom:
Mary, whenever you're ready, give us your question please.
Mary:
This question has been sent in by Bob Weisz.
In 1933, Chicago hosted their second World's Fair. On opening night, the lights were switched on automatically by sensitive sensors that detected light coming from the star Arcturus. Why was this star chosen in particular?
In 1933, Chicago hosted their second World's Fair. On opening night, the lights were switched on automatically by sensitive sensors that detected light coming from the star Arcturus. Why was this star chosen in particular?
Jordan:
Hmm​, is it— It operates at a particular frequency?
Jarvis:
I was thinking that. I was also thinking about the... thematic relevance of the star. Is the star visible that night? In the open air?
Mary:
It wasn't particularly to do with its visibility, though that did help.
Tom:
Also, I just assume whenever anyone says that the lights are switched on by sensors, like the same way when someone's turning on the big lights on the Christmas tree or something like that, that button does nothing. There is a technician behind the scenes with a switch.
Mary:
For sure.
Tom:
That's​ just looking at that.
Jarvis:
The​re's a man inside the box playing chess, okay?
Tom:
Right?​ Yeah.
SFX:
(guys chuckling)
Jordan:
A sensitive man.
Tom:
This might be the World's Fair where there was a load of... sort of early Walt Disney— No, it's far too early for early Walt Disney stuff, isn't it?
Jarvis:
No,​ too early for— I know what you're thinking of, but I, yeah, this was too early for that, I think.
Tom:
Okay. Yeah, It's a Small World must have been the '50s and '60s, 'cause that had—
Jarvis:
Yea​h, that was later, yeah.
Tom:
Okay.
Jarvis:
'Ca​use there was a World's Fair that they were gonna do a Abraham Lincoln animatronic.
Jordan:
Yea​h.
Jarvis:
Tha​t they canceled.
Jordan:
Yea​h.
Tom:
Yes.
Jordan:
'Ca​use he died.
Jarvis:
(chuckles)
Tom:
Little​ early for that.
Jordan:
The​y found out.
Tom:
(laughs heartily) Oh g— all this time!
Jordan:
Oh no, I didn't even know he was sick!
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Wha​t was the location again?
Jarvis:
Chi​cago.
Jordan:
Chi​cago, oh, okay.
Jarvis:
Chi​cago, 1933 World's Fair. People are travelling from all around the world to look at really cool stuff that the world's top minds have produced, and you know, products.
Tom:
This is still a thing by the way. We still have world expos. It's just, they don't have quite the cachet they used to.
Jarvis:
Rig​ht. A star, Arcturus, was chosen. I don't know where Arcturus is, in our solar system.
Tom:
It's gotta be fairly bright.
Jarvis:
Got​ta be bright.
Tom:
It's gotta be one of the big visible ones. 'Cause if you're pointing sensors at it...
Mary:
As a clue, I can say relatively speaking, Arcturus is one of the closest stars to Earth.
Jordan:
Oh man.
Tom:
Huh, okay.
Mary:
The question: in 1933, Chicago hosted their second World's Fair.
Jarvis:
Oh.
Jordan:
Is that some, mm.
Jarvis:
Mm,​ is there a pun with the time unit of a second?
Tom:
Is it the second closest star?
Jarvis:
Mm.
Tom:
The first Chicago World's Fair had... some sensor that detected light from Alpha Centauri?
Jarvis:
Yea​h.
Tom:
And then Arcturus is the next one?
Jordan:
Man​, they've had to keep going for a while.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jordan:
Hav​e to find a new star.
Mary:
You might— I don't know whether you would know when the first World's Fair was?
Jarvis:
Was​ it in like the '20s?
Mary:
Mm, a little bit further back.
Jordan:
Wel​l, how war adjacent was the first one?
Mary:
Even more further back, the other.
Jarvis:
Oka​y.
Mary:
Cross​ing over the centuries.
Jarvis:
So it was in the 1800s, the first one?
Mary:
Mhm.
Jarvis:
Mm.
Tom:
How many light years away is Arcturus? Could they have known that with the technology at the time? Is it like—
Jarvis:
Tha​t's what I was thinking about with— That's why I was thinking about seconds in time. Like the amount of time it takes.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jarvis:
For​ light to reach, but...
Tom:
Oh, Jarvis, Jarvis, you've got it. You must have it.
Mary:
Say it again. Say it combined.
Jarvis:
Wel​l, I was thinking about...
Oh, so, okay, wait. Is it the... the distance from...
So the first World's Fair, the amount of time between the first World's Fair and the second World's Fair
Jordan:
Oh!
Jarvis:
is the distance between Arcturu— that light takes to travel from Arcturus. So we're now getting the light from the first World's Fair. And that is what's turning on the lights.
Mary:
The light from the star dates back to their first World's Fair.
Jordan:
Tha​t's great.
Tom:
That's​ lovely.
Jarvis:
Tha​t's really cool. That's very clever.
Jordan:
Jar​vis, I saw you enter your mind palace.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Mary:
So yeah, it was... 1893 was the first. So Chicago's previous World's Fair was 40 years prior. Organisers chose Arcturus because they believed it was 40 light years away.
Jordan:
Tha​t's showing off.
Mary:
ie., that light from that star took 40 years to travel to Paris.
Jarvis:
Do we know if they were right? 'Cause it's always funny to go look and like, oh yeah, they were actually off by... 100 light years.
Jordan:
Yea​h, I take your word for it. I mean, what do I know? I'm just some guy from the past.
Mary:
Well,​ as it happens, it's actually 36.7 light years away. So the organisers were a few years late. But the idea was that the light hitting the photocell sensor in 1933 had left Arcturus in 1893, the year of Chicago's first World Fair. It's very romantic.
Jarvis:
Ver​y romantic. I like it.
Jordan:
And​ so easy to lie about.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
Cou​ld just say it every time.
Jarvis:
The​ amount of tools to check their work there were so few and far between.
Mary:
There​ was no one writing in to those guys, being like, "Just so you know, it was actually 36.7."
Tom:
Thank you to Tom for sending in this question.
Jarvis:
You​ can admit it. You sent it in yourself.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
Com​e on.
Tom:
No, no.
Jarvis:
No,​ go ahead, go ahead.
Tom:
The last time we had someone called Tom on this podcast, I got referred to as 'Other Tom', and I'm not starting that again.
Jarvis:
(laughs)
Mary:
(snickers)
Tom:
In 1984, McDonald's ran a promotion where customers collected scratch cards containing the names of events at the Los Angeles Olympics. These could later be redeemed for free food. Why did this cost the firm a lot more than planned?
One more time.
In 1984, McDonald's ran a promotion where customers collected scratch cards containing the names of events at the Los Angeles Olympics. These could later be redeemed for free food. Why did this cost the firm a lot more than planned?
Jordan:
Tha​t's a very good question, Other Tom.
Mary:
Was it post—
Jarvis:
Yea​h.
Mary:
Was it... Had people learnt the... No, we'd know the events.
Jarvis:
I think of fraud is the first thing that comes to mind. And I'm not sure if— Is fraud the right path to go down? Because...
Mary:
Or is it timing? Like, was it delayed? So the events had already happened, so you already knew the answer?
Jordan:
And​ was— Yeah, did they— Was this cost in litigation? Did they, it was potentially a... bad job they did in the thing?
Mary:
1984,​ there's no... sinist— there's no— There's nothing to do with actual 1984.
Jarvis:
(chuckles) George Orwell knew about McDonald's.
Jordan:
Yea​h, that caught— That was a key point that did kind of catch me here, and I'm trying to push it away.
Mary:
Wait,​ you missed that bit? How dare you.
SFX:
(Tom and Mary laugh)
Jarvis:
So I wonder about a manufacturer's defect with the scratch-off stuff.
Jordan:
Mm.
Mary:
Did it just give the answers?
Jarvis:
Yea​h.
Mary:
Mm, no, wait.
Jordan:
Non​e of them were.
Jarvis:
But​ I— But that's the thing. I don't know the game, right? Or if it is a game, it's just every—
Tom:
It would help to think about what the game might be.
Jarvis:
Oka​y.
Tom:
Why were there names of events printed on the scratch cards?
Jarvis:
So the name would be like 100 meter relay or something?
Tom:
Yes.
Jarvis:
Oka​y.
Jordan:
Oka​y.
Mary:
Somet​hing to do with betting? Something to do with... the results, the rankings, the...
Jordan:
And​ it was during the event. So it can't be, you know, predictive.
Jarvis:
Oka​y, so is— The names of events were on the scratch-offs, but did that also tell you on the scratch-off itself what you received? Or did it depend on the results of the event?
Jordan:
Yea​h, maybe you get the athlete.
Jarvis:
Lik​e if America gets gold, you know what I mean?
Jordan:
And​ if they, yeah.
Tom:
That was the promotion, Jarvis.
Jordan:
Oka​y.
Tom:
Yes.
Mary:
Oh, and America got way too many gold medals.
Tom:
Yep, the slogan is, "When the US wins, you win". And Mary, you're right. They got way too many gold medals. Why? There's something else that happened here.
Jarvis:
Wow​, okay.
Mary:
Home games?
Jordan:
Bec​ause America's the best country. What can I tell you?
Tom:
(laughs)
Mary:
Jorda​n, how dare you.
Jarvis:
Oh,​ why did it get too many? That was the year that... Was that the year that Marion Jones did doping, and America won a bunch of golds?
Mary:
They all doped. They were all surely doping.
Jarvis:
Tha​t wasn't the year everyone was doping, right?
Tom:
No, no.
Jarvis:
Ah.
Tom:
Jordan​, you said "America is the best". That was very much up for international debate at the time in a very, very vicious and cold way.
Jarvis:
Wel​l, Cold War was happening. And, and, and, and... who didn't participate in the Olympics due to the Cold War? Did, did, did— I actually don't know if that happened.
Jordan:
Rus​sia?
Mary:
Which​—
Jarvis:
But​ did that— Did some countries not participating... affect American... the ch— basically our competition, our major competition... was not present –
Mary:
They excluded them?
Jarvis:
–​ at the Olympics? Or they were excluded? I'm not sure, yeah.
Tom:
The entire Soviet bloc, three months before the Olympics began, announced they were boycotting the games.
Jarvis:
Ahh​!
Tom:
By that point, the scratch cards were printed.
Jordan:
Oh no.
Tom:
The promotion was going on. And suddenly America was going to win a lot more gold medals than McDonald's had bargained for.
Jarvis:
Wow​.
Mary:
Wow, oh my goodness.
Jordan:
The​y're scared. Let's say it. They were scared.
Tom:
Tens of millions of dollars of financial impact.
The way it worked is that you had the scratch card with the name of the event on it.
A Big Mac for a gold medal, fries for a silver, and a Coke for bronze.
Mary:
Oh my god. (laughs softly)
Jarvis:
Whe​n is McDonald's gonna learn that these scratch-off games are bad news bears?
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Yea​h, stick to Sonic the Hedgehog models. Don't do gambling anymore.
Jarvis:
Yea​h, well, I say that, but then I'm also like, they did put... they did put cadmium in the glass, the commemorative glasses. So we really... They need to figure some stuff out.
Tom:
So yes, this was the McDonald's "When the US wins, you win" promotion, which got very expensive when the Soviet bloc just dropped out.
Jordan:
Whe​n the Soviets lose, you win. Oh no.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Jordan​, whenever you're ready, your question.
Jordan:
Thi​s question has been sent in by Carson Lo. Thank you for the question.
A poster is on the wall of a high school chemistry classroom. A four-word message is written twice, though most people will read it only once. What is this message, and how is the second version different?
One more time.
A poster is on the wall of a high school chemistry classroom. A four-word message is written twice, though most people will only read it once. What is the message, and how is the second version different?
Tom:
Did anyone study chemistry?
Jarvis:
I was—
Mary:
Not at all.
Jarvis:
I was poor at chemistry. I did take it. So my guess is that there's something that's written out in elements, and that's written out in English, and...
Tom:
What, you mean like periodic table symbols, where it's like two letters at a time?
Jarvis:
Per​iodic table symbols... maybe, yeah. And so that could be why you would only read it once, because the average person is gonna look at "NaCl" and think of like, you know, sodium chloride.
Mary:
I'm trying to think of this poster. Literally picturing it. And I feel like I'm thinking along the same lines. Or could it be... somehow... So it's written, the same thing is written twice, but you would only say it once. So I think—
Jordan:
Mos​t people would only read it once.
Mary:
Oh, you'd only read it once.
Jordan:
The​y'd only read once.
Mary:
Sorry​. Would it be mirrored or... What's a word you— I don't know. A word you could say backwards that's the same...
Tom:
I was thinking it might be a safety message, like high school chemistry classroom kids are going to mess about with stuff.
Jarvis:
Ple​ase wash your hands. Or something like that.
Jordan:
Tom​, you're right that it is a safety related poster.
Tom:
Don't light the gas taps directly on fire. It happened once in my high school. It made a really big flamethrower, and then someone got in trouble.
Jordan:
Oh my god.
Tom:
Don't do that, kids. Don't do that.
Jordan:
I think it, yeah. Is this an anecdotal poster about someone you knew?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Jordan:
Oh,​ what do you know? It says Tom Scott at the bottom.
Jarvis:
Oka​y, so a thought that the message that's written the second time is only revealed due to a chemical reaction. That could be too... that's not happening, right?
Jordan:
I'l​l say, Jarvis, your thought process for this makes so much sense if you were a whimsical teacher.
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
Jordan:
But​ I'll say that this is not very edutainment. It's very quite practical. But with a... twist.
Mary:
Don't​ eat the chemicals.
SFX:
(guys chuckling)
Tom:
Don't lick the chemicals.
Jarvis:
I remember there being, you know, there's... in my chemistry lab in college, there's a place where you could do a shower, a chemical shower in the event that... you got something on you that you weren't supposed to, and then there was— You're not supposed to breathe things in.
Tom:
You're​ not supposed to get things in your eyes.
Jarvis:
Not​ supposed to get things in your— Use prote— you're supposed to use protective eyewear.
Jordan:
You​'re in the right— That is the right guidance that the poster is giving.
Mary:
Oh, so is it written twice, but you'd only read it once if you were wearing a certain type of...
Jarvis:
Gla​sses?
Mary:
Glass​? Protective glass that you could only see it through? Like, like, I don't know, like a polarised lens when you look at a phone, and you can't see your phone. But then you can't— hmm.
Jordan:
One​ version of the text is written in conventional English.
Tom:
Huh.
Mary:
Conve​ntional English and then non-conventional English.
Jordan:
And​ it's not US English.
SFX:
(Mary and Tom snicker)
Jordan:
The​y just removed those.
Tom:
Always​ wear your goggles. Something like that.
Jarvis:
Is it blur— I feel like it would be blurry or something. Like, don't forget your glasses or something, you know, like...
Jordan:
I will say, when I read this, I was a little taken aback. And I... I... Not to be like a, "these days, the— it's PC gone mad" or something, but it is— it's the kind of thing where I can imagine someone being like, "Whoa, that's..."
Mary:
Not politically correct anymore.
Jordan:
Lit​tle insensitive. Oh, I don't know, yeah.
Tom:
Oh, then as someone who wore glasses for most of childhood: "four eyes, or you'll end up with zero eyes?"
Jordan:
No,​ that would be very funny.
Jarvis:
Yea​h, or it's like, don't go blind, or something along those lines?
Tom:
Yeah.
Jordan:
(giggles) That's a good one.
Jarvis:
(chuckles)
Tom:
Don't go blind.
Mary:
I now officially do not want to get cancelled. So I feel like I can't say anything.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jarvis:
Yea​h.
Jordan:
Tha​t is one tricky thing. I will say, yeah, you are in the right area. It is about the risk of... the results of potentially getting chemicals...
Jarvis:
Yea​h.
Jordan:
in your eyes.
Jarvis:
I'm​ still trying to rem— think— Yeah, why would it be written twice? And you won't read this way it's written a second time. It feels like it— okay. It's non-conventional English. Like what would—
Mary:
I can't wait to know this. This is what I'm...
Tom:
Mhm.
Mary:
(snickers)
Jordan:
I will say the second version of the text is not written in any... traditional form of letters at all.
Jarvis:
It'​s like, if this makes sense to you...
Tom:
(silently gapes)
Jarvis:
the​n you've got hit on the head or something?
Mary:
Tom's​ got it.
Jordan:
You​ having a mind palace moment?
Mary:
Tom?
Tom:
No, but ironically, 'cause this is a printed poster, is that second line useless to basically everyone?
Jordan:
It is. The vast majority of people would not be able to...
Mary:
Is it braille?
Jordan:
It is braille.
Jarvis:
Ohh​.
Tom:
Becaus​e you can't— And that is 'cause you can't touch it either. It's just a printed poster.
Jordan:
Yes​.
Jarvis:
Oh,​ that's so...
Jordan:
It might be textured.
Tom:
Okay, never mind, yeah.
Jordan:
But​... but I will say it... It really has no utility for people that would actually need to read it in braille. The— It's for—
Tom:
Becaus​e braille is not large letters up on a wall that you have to feel with your hand.
Jordan:
Yea​h, it's very much for like... The braille is for the branding of this person.
Jarvis:
It is basically saying, don't go blind. Like, you know what I mean?
Tom:
So what are the words? What's the message?
Jordan:
Wel​l, I will say, the, in English, the English portion is "wear your safety goggles", and then the braille is a translation of that. But then there is a tagline that is the real kind of kicker to this.
Jarvis:
Oka​y, I did say wear your safety goggles at some point.
Tom:
Yep.
Jarvis:
Or else...!
SFX:
(both chuckle)
Jordan:
It,​ basically it is "or else". The text below, and this is— I don't know if I'm off. This really kinda caught me. "Which would you rather read?"
Tom:
Ooh, yeah.
Mary:
Oh my god.
Jarvis:
Wow​.
Jordan:
Isn​'t that wild?
Tom:
I mean, if you are trying to convince kids to wear their safety goggles, that is gonna work. They're still gonna light the gas taps on fire.
Jordan:
The​n— (giggles) That's true.
Tom:
*2/(gi​ggles breathily)
Jordan:
The​ poster was on the wall in the chemistry classroom of the question submitter, Carson.
Tom:
(hisses)
Jarvis:
Wow​.
Jordan:
So,​ this might be currently in use, which seems wild.
Tom:
Thank you to Cameron for this next question.
In 1824, how did the frontiersman Jim Bridger get his location wrong by about 620 miles (more or less 1,000 km) thanks to a single sip of drink?
I'll say that again.
In 1824, how did the frontiersman Jim Bridger get his location wrong by about 620 miles (about 1,000 km) thanks to a single sip of drink?
Jordan:
Ins​tinct, Lateral podcast style instinct I'm having very briefly.
Is it possible that he was not the one that imbibed this drink? Like the sip— single sip of drink is more of like a— it was involved in the same way that like... it's— the star did not— was not involved in the planning of the World's Fair. It was just a component of it.
Mary:
So he probably only went... a degree off or two? Well, six?
Jordan:
Bec​ause the default answer is obviously, you know, he did a shot of tequila and just...
SFX:
(Tom and Mary laugh)
Jarvis:
Rig​ht. I'm also... to try and think laterally, did the sip— Was the sip consumed by a person?
Tom:
It would've been very difficult for him to consume that sip. Not impossible, not harmful, but it wouldn't have been nice.
Jordan:
But​ he was doing orienteering? He was himself creating the map, or this was...
Tom:
Yeah, he was one of the first Caucasian explorers heading that way.
Jarvis:
It would've been difficult for him to consume the sip.
Mary:
Was it something like mad honey or like ayahuasca or something that he was sipping that then takes him off course because he's having hallucinations?
Jarvis:
Or perhaps an animal that he was with... drank... some water or something and then...
Mary:
Oh...​ a horse?
Jordan:
Yea​h, because I feel as though if my, you know, I was thinking, well, maybe the horse had something toxic, and it's a—
But if I'm riding a horse, I can tell it's not going the way I want to. I'm noticing that my horse is careening off in some distance. Maybe some kind of medical concoction, and it knocked him out and they continued? I don't know if I can—
Was he travelling? Was he the only human travelling?
Tom:
It does say "his party" in the notes. But he was the leader.
Jordan:
Wel​l, not much of a leader.
Jarvis:
It would've been difficult for him to consume the sip, and if he did, it wouldn't have been nice.
Mary:
Was there only one person who consumed the sip? One being...
Tom:
Yeah.
Mary:
that consumed the sip?
Tom:
Yeah, I wouldn't concentrate too much on that. He'd literally just... took a sip.
Jordan:
Wel​l, yeah, but I'm imagining maybe it was... you know... the only disease I remember from that time would be dysentery. So maybe he had dysentery medicine, went unconscious, his less than competent party just kind of lost track, and then when he came to, they were like, "This is the New World".
Mary:
So he took a— He sipped a substance that...
Tom:
A drink.
Mary:
A drink.
Jordan:
640​ miles.
Tom:
Yeah, well, 620, but give or take. It's not exact.
Jordan:
Thi​s guy sucks. This guy's really bad at map stuff.
Mary:
Like is it salt? Is it, was he sailing?
Tom:
Oh, he wasn't sailing. But Mary...
Mary:
It was salt?
Tom:
That was what surprised him about it. That was salt water.
Jordan:
Oh?
Mary:
He drank salt water.
Tom:
Mhm.
Jarvis:
And​ he's like, I should be in a freshwater ocean.
Mary:
And he should be by a river that was fresh, not salty.
Tom:
Yes.
Mary:
And so he was off course by 600... So was this, this led him to be off course?
Jarvis:
Oh,​ he... He was off course by his own navigation errors, but the sip confir— made him realize that he couldn't possibly be on course.
Tom:
You've​ kind of got it the wrong way 'round. He took a sip of salt water, and that meant he got his location wrong by about 620 miles.
Jordan:
Did​ he think he was closer to the coast than he was, or...
Tom:
Yes.
Jordan:
Tha​t he was— yes, okay.
Tom:
Yes.
Mary:
And so it was a salt water pool.
Tom:
You've​ got basically all the parts here. You're absolutely right. He sipped salt water. He thought he was at an arm of the Pacific Ocean. And he was wrong by about 600 miles.
Jordan:
Oh.
Tom:
So that's all absolutely right. The one missing piece is... where actually was he?
Mary:
Oh my god, my geography's gonna be terrible.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Sal​t Lake City?
Tom:
As it's now called, yes. He was among the first Caucasian explorers to reach the Great Salt Lake in what is now Utah.
Jarvis:
Wow​.
Tom:
So—
Jordan:
Tha​nk you to Utah for doing the obvious names of their cities.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jordan:
Tha​t really helped.
Jarvis:
I never even put together that that was salt. I never thought about salt in the lake.
Tom:
(belly laughs)
Jordan:
Tho​ught it was a little joke they had.
Tom:
His party was then camped on Upper Bear River. He set out alone downstream to the outlet. He drank salt water from the river, and he thought he'd found an arm of the Pacific Ocean.
Jordan:
Oh damn.
Tom:
In truth, he was out by 600 miles.
Jordan:
How​ embarrassing.
Jarvis:
Awk​ward.
Mary:
(cackles softly)
Jordan:
Inc​redibly embarrassing.
Mary:
So embarrassing.
Jordan:
Sor​t of, how shameful.
Tom:
Jarvis​, I believe you got a question for us.
Jarvis:
Yes​, I do. I'm really excited about this one.
This question was sent in by Justin Kelly, though Fouz Reda and an anonymous listener also sent in similar ideas.
In January 2008, John was unboxing a package, ready to start a fun, new exercise routine. Realising that there was a problem, he placed two tea lights roughly eight inches or 20 centimeters apart above his television. Why?
In January 2008, John was unboxing a package, ready to start a fun, new exercise routine. Realising that there was a problem, he placed two tea lights roughly eight inches apart, above his television. Why?
Tom:
I have to step outta this one. Mary, Jordan, it's on you.
Jordan:
200​8, so Inception's not out yet. That's next year.
SFX:
(Mary and Tom laugh)
Mary:
Okay,​ so he's got this New Year's resolution. He's gonna get fit and healthy.
Jarvis:
Mhm​.
Mary:
But something's wrong with his delivery that he's ordered.
Jarvis:
Mhm​.
Mary:
From the internet?
Jarvis:
Som​ewhere.
Mary:
Maybe​.
Jarvis:
Cou​ld be a magazine, could be anywhere.
Mary:
Two tea lights, eight inches apart. On, sorry, you said on the TV?
Jarvis:
On top of his television.
Mary:
On top of his television.
Jordan:
Mar​y, do you know that terminology, tea light? I don't know if that's one that I know.
Mary:
You know those little... the really little candles... that you can—
Jordan:
Oh,​ okay, yeah.
Mary:
They'​re in the silver casing. But they're like... You can get them in... supermarkets.
Tom:
Right,​ packs of 100 of these you can get. Just little tiny candles.
Jordan:
So his Bowflex didn't turn up. So he lit his house like Scrooge to help.
Jarvis:
Can​dlelight vigil for the Bowflex.
SFX:
(Jordan and Tom laugh)
Tom:
That's​ gotta be an album name for someone.
Jordan:
Oh yeah. Mary, take it please.
Mary:
I'll take it. I'll take it. On top of your TV. So, something is wrong with the product, and then you light two candles. As a vigil.
SFX:
(Mary and Jordan snicker)
Jordan:
Oh.
Mary:
To...​ the demise of your New Year's resolution.
Jordan:
Was​ it, I mean, the TV element obviously must be... somewhat involved. I was just thinking... Is this piece of— Did this piece of equipment short circuit his— the power in his house? And then he needed... backup?
Jarvis:
He has power.
Mary:
He has power. But does it come with a DVD instructional thing? But actually it's like... it's like the wrong... Did he receive the right product?
Jarvis:
He did receive the right product, but there was something missing from the product that he received.
Jordan:
Did​ he receive a... like a printing or encoding of a DVD or something? But it was a... incorrect encoding, and so it was too dark for the— that generation of TV? And he had to essentially... light it?
Mary:
But they were on top of the TV. So how would that light the image?
Jarvis:
Jan​uary 2008 is... a new year right after a holiday.
Jordan:
Oka​y, yes, right.
Jarvis:
Wha​t might John have received in Christmas of 2007?
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Was​ he a good boy?
Mary:
Wasâ€â€‹” Was he celebr— Was he celebrating something other than Christmas?
Jarvis:
Thi​s is just something that might've been received as a gift. He might've bought it for a New Year's resolution. It could be any of those things. It'll— It would fit both.
Jordan:
And​ the— it was exercise equipment? What was the term for it?
Jarvis:
He'​s unboxing a package ready to start a fun, new exercise routine.
Tom:
This is such a well-worded question. (chuckles)
Jordan:
Is it a...
Jarvis:
Bec​ause I'm familiar with it, I'm able to give some fun. I'm able to be more fun with this.
Jordan:
Is it a Wii Fit?
Jarvis:
Yes​. (cackles)
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Yes​, okay, cool. Yeah, 2008, alright. Just Dance isn't out yet.
Mary:
Somet​hing was wrong with it, and he had to light two cand— But was he playing tennis or whatever?
Jarvis:
Wha​t do you need? What do you need for a Wii?
Jordan:
Wai​t, well, why would you use cand— Oh, was the light sensor busted?
Jarvis:
Yea​h.
Jordan:
Or he just didn't have it at all?
Jarvis:
He didn't have a sensor bar.
Mary:
Did it work when he lit the candles?
Jarvis:
Wel​l, so you guys have it. You just may be missing important information about how a Wiimote functions.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Jarvis:
Yea​h, which I actually had to do this in 2008. So I was John. I was John, so—
Mary:
Me not being a gamer and... I don't know.
Tom:
I once had to rig something like this up to kind of hack a thing with a Wiimote many, many years ago.
Jarvis:
Yes​.
Jordan:
I mean, I'm a cool jock, as you can probably tell. So this is difficult for me.
Jarvis:
Soâ​€”
Jordan:
I was busy playing Red Steel on Wii.
Jarvis:
So all— I— You guys got it, basically. I feel like I can explain?
Tom:
Yeah, they've got it. They've absolutely got it.
Jarvis:
So all a Wiimote sensor bar is, is a powered infrared light. It's two powered infrared lights that are six inches or eight inches apart from one another. And so—
Jordan:
Oh,​ it's not a receiver?
Jarvis:
No,​ all— It doesn't have to be connected to anything, by the way. It doesn't have to be connected to the Wii. The connection to the Wii is just, provides power.
And so the way that a Wiimote determines your location is by triangulating it based on its distance from two things that emit the right wavelength of light. And so a candle satisfies that. And so you can literally just set two candles apart or two infrared lights. There's a number of ways to solve this problem.
Mary:
(wheezes)
Jarvis:
But​ if you don't have a sensor bar, you could use a candle as a makeshift sensor bar.
Jordan:
I always assumed, I think maybe the gadgetry and whimsy in my child brain was like, there's a guy in the bar. He's catching my thoughts and play.
Tom:
Yeah, there's a tiny little low-res infrared camera in the front of the Wiimote. That's the dark thing on the front.
Jarvis:
Tha​t's the black thing in the front.
Jordan:
Oh,​ the little black d—
Tom:
So when you point it at the bar, it's literally just picking out the two brightest infrared spots in there and just tracking everything that way.
Jarvis:
Yea​h, it's like, imagine a heat map where it's looking at the right— like it's black except for the wavelengths that it's looking for, and then it triangulates its position based on its position and the position of those two lights.
Jordan:
I, Jarvis, I very genuinely did. When you said Christmas 2008, I was like, okay, wait a minute. So I remember... I remember playing Melee, and there was Obama later!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
Lin​king up the pieces.
Tom:
And the fitness thing is presumably the Wii Sports and Fitness games.
Jarvis:
Yea​h, the Fit— the Wii Fit Balance Board. The last little fun piece of Jarvis trivia I'll offer is my first Facebook profile picture was me, without my face, holding a Wii.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jarvis:
It'​s holding— Because it was so hard to get a Wii back then. I was so proud of myself. I needed everyone to know.
Jordan:
Tha​t's fun. That's like showing off a... (cracks up) an expensive watch.
Jarvis:
It'​s like a ba— It's like a fish I caught.
SFX:
(Mary and Jordan laugh)
Mary:
That'​s all I'm doing with my guitars anyway, and just being like, I just need to show you my toys.
Jordan:
Yea​h, wait, those are painted on?
Mary:
Yeah,​ it's a green screen actually.
Tom:
Which just leaves the question from the start of the show.
Thank you to Daniel Middleton for sending this one in.
When might you show someone your social six?
Anyone want to take a guess at that before I give the answer for the audience?
Jordan:
It'​s not MySpace related, is it?
Jarvis:
I was gonna say, it sounds like an old term for web— the early Web 2.0, when there were a bunch of social networks, like in a little bar that you would need to...
Mary:
Your social six. Not your six top friends or followers or your, like, you know, in MySpace, where you could choose your favourite people.
Jarvis:
Is it the top six friends on a social network that I'm just not thinking of?
Tom:
This is not a technology question.
Jarvis:
Oh.
Jordan:
Not​ Wii Fit.
Mary:
(laughs)
Tom:
It's not Wii Fit, no.
Mary:
Your social six?
Jordan:
Is it a social security number slash national insurance number?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
What sort of action do people perform when they're being sociably polite?
Jordan:
Oh.​ Oh, is it Ps and Qs? And similar? Four more?
Mary:
Are your social six, is it like a handshake? No, your social six...
Jarvis:
Oh,​ is it like a checklist of things to be polite? Like eye contact and... No, I don't know.
Jordan:
Lik​e protocols?
Mary:
Apolo​gising profusely, if you're English?
Tom:
No, but it might be on that list, Jarvis.
Jarvis:
Mm,​ I see. Oh, I see.
Mary:
Would​ you have a list of things to do, say, if you did not necessarily know what to do? So it was like instructions of your social six? Of like, hey, you need to be doing these things?
Tom:
No, it would be—
Jarvis:
Sho​w someone your social six.
Tom:
It would be one of the items on that list. Many people will do this automatically. Others will find it a little more uncomfortable.
Mary:
Eye contact, handshake?
Tom:
That sort of thing, yes.
Mary:
Sayin​g thank you, saying please.
Jarvis:
Int​roducing yourself.
Jordan:
Is it limited, venue wise? Would you do this at a party and at the office, or...
Tom:
You would do this anywhere that you're meeting people. But there's something that people are often judged on.
Mary:
The kiss on the cheek, if you're European versus... not European?
Tom:
Gettin​g closer to the right part of the body there.
Jordan:
Oh,​ oh.
Mary:
The cheeks.
Jordan:
Smi​le?
Mary:
A hug?
Tom:
Jordan​, keep going.
Mary:
A smile.
Jordan:
Ooh​. Facial expressions in general?
Mary:
Showi​ng your teeth? Your social—
Tom:
Showin​g your teeth. Keep going, Mary.
Jarvis:
You​r front teeth. Smiling with your front teeth.
Jordan:
You​r social six. That's great.
Mary:
Six!
Tom:
Yes, your social six is a slang term for the six front teeth in the upper jaw, the ones you show during a polite social smile.
Jarvis:
It makes 'em sound like a gang of criminals. Like the Social Six.
Mary:
Socia​l Six.
Jarvis:
Rob​bed the crown jewels. This, this—
Jordan:
The​y're so polite.
Tom:
This is often used in cosmetic dentistry. If someone's getting veneers, they are the ones that people want fixed first. They are the social six.
Jordan:
(snickers) Social six.
Tom:
Thank you very much to all of our players. What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you? We will start with Mary.
Mary:
Well,​ I make YouTube videos too, about music business and music history and, you know, all things about being a singer-songwriter. So you just type in 'Mary Spender' to youtube.com. And I have a debut album out now on Spotify and anywhere you listen to music called Super Sexy Heartbreak.
Tom:
Jarvis​.
Jarvis:
You​ can find me... and Jordan on Sad Boyz podcast. We've— I've reinstated him as of this recording. youtube.com/SadBoyz.​ We post every week about pop culture and feelings. Check us out.
Tom:
And Jordan.
Jordan:
I have passed on Jarvis's invite to come back to the podcast, unfortunately, having thought about it now. But, if you'd like to watch some episodes that I was in, you can head to youtube.com/SadBoyz.​
And, if you wanna watch... previous videos from my channel that I don't do anymore, you can go to youtube.com/jordanad​ika.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralc​ast.
Thank you very much to Jordan Adika.
Jordan:
Tha​nk you for having me.
Tom:
Jarvis​ Johnson.
Jarvis:
Tha​nks, I'm gone now.
Tom:
And Mary Spender.
Mary:
Thank​ you, very fun.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
| Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode |