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Episode 149: Sea 26
Published 15th August, 2025
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
What profession is the subject of the documentary film, 20 Feet from Stardom?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
You find me in something of an unfortunate position on this episode of Lateral. Because due to a technical hitch, I genuinely do not have the introduction script in front of me. I just have a piece of paper that says "improv".
So, In the style of an improv game, could someone please give me some prompts with— in a style with which to introduce Lateral? Just, any of our guests today?
Karen:
Shak​espeare!
Tom:
Ah, forsooth. Wonderful, wonderful. I must speak in iambic pentameter, and I'm not able to do that off the cuff... but welcome to Lateral.
Not even close. Gimme another one.
Dan:
A very happy vegetable.
Tom:
I'm gonna need a specific type of vegetable here.
Dan:
A very happy pea.
Tom:
(high voice) Hello, welcome to Lateral. I'm overjoyed to be here.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
See, that— See, if it was a potato, would've been a bass voice. But you said pea. That's definitely...
Dan:
It's a little tiny pea, yep.
Tom:
Colin,​ gimme something!
Colin:
Old-​timey gangster.
Tom:
"Well,​ see, we're here at Lateral today. And there'll be no trouble, alright?"
I can't do that accent, but you know what? That's clocked up enough of an intro that I can go to our guests.
Last time that we had Good Job, Brain on here, we had one person from the crew. And this time, we have two. We'll start, welcome back to the show, Karen Chu.
Karen:
Hell​o! Double trouble!
Tom:
(laughs)
Karen:
It is I, Karen from Good Job, Brain, trivia podcast, and I brought a friend.
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
One of my best friends. Also from Good Job, Brain, Colin. This is your first time.
Colin:
Happ​y to be here. At the rate we're doubling, next time, there'll be four of us.
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Colin:
Unco​nstrained growth. Yes, I'm Colin, also from Good Job, Brain. Also Karen's friend and her one-time boss.
Karen:
Yes!
Colin:
That​'s filed away for the factoids.
Tom:
I love it when the guests set each other up. I didn't have to read Colin Felton anyway. You just did that for me. Thank you very much.
You should plug Good Job, Brain.
Colin:
We are proud to represent here Good Job, Brain, the offbeat trivia show and pub quiz podcast.
Tom:
And now in the style of a 1930s gangster movie.
Colin:
"Lis​ten, see, you're gonna listen to the show, and you're gonna like it, alright? It's called Good Job, Brain. You find it on your, eh, radio I guess?
Tom:
That's​ better than mine. That's much better than mine.
Rounding out the panel today: Friend of the show, regular on the show. Daniel Peake, welcome back.
Dan:
Eyup.
Tom:
I always wonder about what to introduce you as, because you have so many... arrows in your quiver right now. I was gonna go with strings to the bow, and then I— then my metaphor got confused. What's your big thing right now?
Dan:
You leave my big thing out of it(!)
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Dan:
I'm jack of all trades, master of none. At the moment, mainly I'm a puzzle editor and writer. But I also work on Only Connect. So those are my two big strings.
Tom:
How are you at improvised voices for the introduction to a panel show?
Dan:
(high voice) I like being in my pod.
Tom:
(laughs) Thank you. That's all we needed.
Well, very best of luck to all three of our players today. We'll see if we can improvise our way through question one.
Thank you to Der König for this question.
On a Swiss railway in the 1930s, how did the construction workers use one rail that was perpendicular to all the others?
I'll say that again.
On a Swiss railway in the 1930s, how did the construction workers use one rail that was perpendicular to all the others?
Dan:
Perpen​dicularly.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Karen:
Natu​rally.
Colin:
Alri​ght, well, I mean, it's gonna be too small to sit on. It's not a bench, but I... I have a guess here that, you know, they're Swiss.
So maybe it's something related to working at high altitude.
Karen:
Ohhh​! Like an altitude sickness area, that's...
Colin:
Oh, oh, sure. You mean they lean over when they have to, you know, send something down below, as it were.
Tom:
(chortles) Oh!
Dan:
They do often work at high alp-titudes in...
Tom:
Eyy!
Karen:
Eyy!
Dan:
Just get that out there.
Tom:
Have any of you ever had altitude sickness? Because I've had it once in my life. I was like—
Colin:
I have, I have.
Karen:
I have once.
Colin:
It was awful. It was pretty bad.
Tom:
Your body just suddenly decides it can't do things?
Karen:
Yes.
Tom:
Just over the course of ten minutes, I went from, "Oh, that's fine, I'm jogging along here" to, "No, I must lie down immediately." And I cannot eat anything. It took me ages to work out what had happened.
Karen:
It's​ terrifying!
Colin:
I was at the top of a snowboard slope. And when I went up to the top, I felt fine. And as soon as I got there, my body was like, "Oh no, you don't. No, you don't feel fine. Not anymore, you don't."
Karen:
You need that third rail.
Tom:
The place I was staying at actually had one of those oxygen machines you plug into your nose. Just, just like it was part of the hotel. Because it happens that often, that some sea level idiot arrives and decides to run. They're just like, yeah, we'll just give you... give you that for a couple hours.
Colin:
I had to make do with hot chocolate in the lodge, which was, you know, maybe not the best thing.
What if these railway workers are working at such high altitude, they need a place to hang their stuff, or maybe hang themselves while they work on the rails from below or something? Doesn't that paint a cool little image?
Karen:
Ooh,​ but who's to say that you can't put something on the rail?
Colin:
Hmm.
Karen:
Righ​t?
Colin:
That​'s a good point.
Karen:
If a train can go on the rail. It could be a single car. It could be a single space. That's kind of just in an offshoot kind of out of the way. Maybe it's like a sleeping quarters kind of deal? 'Cause they can't come back down home, right? They're up there. They're working.
Dan:
When we say perpendicular, what are we saying it's perpendicular to? I'm fixated by this word, can I just say?
Tom:
All the others, all the other pieces of rail, they were laying.
Dan:
Okay.
Karen:
Oh, okay.
Dan:
It could be perpendicular straight up.
Tom:
It could be. It could be.
Dan:
Oh!
Colin:
Ah!
Karen:
Oh!
Colin:
Good​. Taking us into the third dimension.
Dan:
Okay!
Karen:
Wow,​ Daniel!
Tom:
Well done, Captain Kirk in Star Trek II.
Karen:
Oh, my third eye.
Dan:
That has not helped me, but I did like the oohs.
Karen:
It could be a marker. It could be a... kilometre.
Dan:
"Help,​ I'm here in the snow."
SFX:
(Colin and Karen laugh)
Dan:
"Help.​" Yes.
Colin:
A distance marker. You know, until lunch break. You gotta work to the post.
Tom:
Now, Colin, you're stumbling very close to the answer there.
Dan:
Ooh?
Colin:
Okay​. Some sort of distance marker. Alright, I don't believe it's tied to—
Tom:
Not that part of your statement.
Colin:
Ah, ah!
Tom:
Do you wanna try saying that again, but this time, the exact opposite?
Dan:
Ooh?
Colin:
When​ it's lunchtime...
SFX:
(Tom and Colin chuckle)
Colin:
you need somewhere to put your stuff. I don't know. When it's lunchtime, you need to know where to stop working.
Karen:
Ohhh​! So you know where you are!
Tom:
It's not where.
Dan:
When?
Colin:
But when?
Dan:
Oh! The Swiss are famous for their clocks.
Karen:
Thei​r watchmaking.
Dan:
What do you do if you haven't got a clock around? You've got a cuckoo clock on the train, but it's all the way over there.
Colin:
Ah-h​uh.
Dan:
So you need to find a way to tell the time. Is that what they're doing?
Colin:
They​'re making an impromptu sundial?
Tom:
That is slightly more complicated than the actual answer.
Dan:
Oh, right.
Tom:
But you're right. This is being used to tell everyone that it's time for lunch.
Dan:
Is it, if you work, and get to this marker, there you go, you can have a break? No?
Tom:
Nope. You've got all the key parts here.
It's hanging upright. It's not welded and upright. It's hanging upright.
Colin:
Do they bang on it? Like a lunch bell?
Dan:
(laughs heartily)
Colin:
Like​, hey... no matter where you are on the line, it's lunch time.
Tom:
Yes.
On railway construction sites in Switzerland, in the 1930s, a free hanging piece of rail was basically used as a public address system.
Karen:
Free​ hanging!
Tom:
Yes!
Colin:
Free​ hanging. That was the last little bit there, right?
Tom:
Yes.
Colin:
Righ​t.
Tom:
So it was the equivalent of a factory whistle or something like that. It is just... hit with a hammer, makes a very loud noise, and everyone knows it's time for lunch.
Colin, it is over to you for the next question. Whenever you're ready.
Colin:
Alri​ght.
We have a question that was sent in by Ali and Jenny.
Ali was planning a business lunch at the Café les Deux Gares. When booking, why was he asked to choose from 'Sea 26' – that's S-E-A – and 'Game 27', among other options?
I'll read it again.
Ali was planning a business lunch at the Café les Deux Gares. When booking, why was he asked to choose from 'Sea 26' and 'Game 27', among other options?
Karen:
CafÃ​©... Deux Gares... of War?
Dan:
Yeah.
Karen:
Of War!
Colin:
G-A-​R-E-S.
Karen:
Oh..​. G-A-R-E-S.
Dan:
So 'stations'.
Tom:
Statio​ns.
Karen:
Stat​ions!
Colin:
Mm, you guys are linguistically skilled here. Yes, yes, gares.
Tom:
It's more that anyone learning French, one of your basic things is "Où est la gare?"
Colin:
Yeah​.
Tom:
That's​ just in my— Is it pronounced right? No. But from years of high school French, that's stuck in there.
Colin:
Yep,​ well, you're onto the right name here of the café at least. So, so how can you work with that?
Dan:
Sea 26, Game 27? 26 is always a very suspicious number for me as a puzzler. There are 26 letters in the alphabet. But then you go to 27 and ruin it. So, hmm.
Colin:
Yeah​. So, you know, this is a lunch, right? That was being scheduled here.
Tom:
Here's​ a weird reference. It's not gonna be this, but there is a restaurant at a theme park in Germany, which is a dark ride restaurant. Like full—
Karen:
Woah​!
Tom:
Full gourmet dining experience, molecular gastronomy type of thing.
Karen:
Whoa​!
Tom:
But the tables and the chairs are individual little dark ride vehicles. And after every course, when everyone— make sure everyone's back from the loo, everything like that. The whole restaurant setting will pick itself up and move into a new space and theater and everything like this. So, so the whole thing changes.
Karen:
Let'​s go!
Colin:
Wow.
Tom:
I haven't done it 'cause it's crazy expensive and I'm not that much of a foodie, but I'm trying to think, is... Is it something where... (cracks up) If it's "Café Deux Gares", it's moving between stations or something like that.
Karen:
What​ if they're eating on the train?
Tom:
Ah.
Colin:
Ahh,​ ah, ah. I think you guys are maybe giving a red herring here to yourselves with the train.
I think the fact that you've hit on the language is a key to this.
Karen:
Fran​çais.
Colin:
This​ was a business lunch. And, as the question notes, there were other options available, but maybe not quite so confounding as Sea 26 and Game 27.
This is a business lunch being booked online.
Dan:
I will say that 'sea' could be like 'surf', and 'game' could be like 'turf'. So it could be like surf and turf.
Tom:
(laughs) Oh, yeah. The fish menu and the venison menu or something like that.
Dan:
Sort of, yes. I don't think it is, but it feels like sea and game could be surf and turf.
Tom:
And then the number next to it is just the price.
Dan:
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Tom:
That's​ actually just how many euros it costs. I'm assuming France at this point. Could be Montreal or something like that.
Colin:
Yeah​, Tom, let me steer you back a bit to, yeah, where do you think this lunch is taking place? This business lunch being booked... online, I will add here. Booking online, a business lunch. Couple options thrown out. Maybe... Maybe less complicated than the restaurant moving or changing position.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Colin:
But just the simple act.
Dan:
I mean, it feels like we're in a French restaurant. But it could be... Or any French-speaking restaurant. So Canada would also work. That sort, you know, sort of thing. Are we in France?
Colin:
You are in Paris, indeed.
Dan:
Okay.
Colin:
This​ cafe is in Paris.
Tom:
Okay.
Karen:
It's​ weird that sea and game are in English.
Dan:
Mm.
Karen:
Righ​t? If it is a restaurant in Paris, why is sea and game...
Tom:
That's​ true. If there's any city in the world that is not gonna try and do English if they don't have to, it's gonna be Paris.
Dan:
Mer and jeu.
Colin:
Dan.​ You have stumbled directly onto the answer.
Dan:
Well, I've said—
Colin:
Why?
Karen:
Oh! Oh!
Colin:
What​'s the link? What's the link though?
Karen:
It's​ the days of the week. Is it the days of the week.
Tom:
Oh! And it's been badly translated!
Karen:
Yes!
Colin:
Yes!
Karen:
We'v​e got a bad Google translation or something! And so your Mercredi, which is Wednesday, 'mer' got translated to 'sea'.
Colin:
That​'s exactly right.
Karen:
On the 27th. Or 26th.
Colin:
That​'s right.
Tom:
Vingt-​six I think is right for that.
Dan:
Yes.
Karen:
Yeah​, vingt-six.
Tom:
And jeu, Jeudi... is going to be...
Karen:
Jeud​i, Thursday.
Colin:
You got it. Well done. Yeah, good teamwork on that one. Right into it, yeah.
And maybe an example of it... not a bad translation per se, but...
Dan:
Overze​alous.
Colin:
Mayb​e overzealous. Well said. Yep, yep.
Karen:
(cackles)
Tom:
I take back what I said about Parisians not translating to English.
Karen:
You were right!
Tom:
But they did just hit the automated button, rather than get a human to do it.
SFX:
(Karen and Colin laugh)
Tom:
The next question was sent in by Daniel. Thank you very much.
In the 1960s, William Labov went to a Manhattan department store and asked dozens of employees where the women's shoes were. "On the fourth floor," they all replied. He then repeated this at two more stores, but with different products at each. Why?
I will give you that one more time.
In the 1960s, William Labov went to a Manhattan department store and asked dozens of employees where the women's shoes were. "On the fourth floor," they all replied. He then repeated this at two more stores, but with different products at each. Why?
Dan:
I would just like to clarify. I am not the Daniel in question here. So I don't know the answer.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
You have sent in questions before.
Dan:
I have indeed. But this is not one of them.
Colin:
Not planting.
Okay, with different products. Meaning at another store, he might have asked where—
Karen:
Men'​s shoes.
Colin:
Men'​s shoes, or housewares. Interesting.
Dan:
Small happy peas.
Tom:
(high voice) Yes!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Someon​e coming in halfway through the show will not understand why I just did that. But also, this isn't on the radio in the 1930s. So I don't know why I thought that.
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Colin:
Does​ this gentleman own the store? Maybe he's quizzing his employees' knowledge somehow.
Dan:
Or some form of undercover shopper.
Colin:
Mm.
Karen:
Ah. But why would he go to another store? Other stores?
Dan:
Anothe​r one in a chain or something? So he's testing his own stores?
Colin:
Yeah​, and why would he mix up products? You know, if he's just testing their knowledge?
Karen:
It's​ gotta be some sort of Manhattan, it's gotta be some sort of department store where there are multiple floors for different things. At first maybe, I was like, oh, maybe he's casing the buildings? He's trying to figure out...
Dan:
Ohh! Oh, I like this thief angle. This is good.
Karen:
Ah, William Labov, 1960.
Or he likes feet.
SFX:
(guys laugh uproariously)
Colin:
Now,​ now. Let's not defame Mr. Labov here.
Karen:
Hey!
Colin:
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Karen:
Yeah​.
Tom:
Oh, impressive double backpedal there. I like that.
Colin:
Yes.
Dan:
And there's a large number of shoes in Karen's background as well. This is... how it's meant to be.
Tom:
That's​ true!
Colin:
Is he— Is William Labov maybe less interested in the items than in getting to the items? You know what I mean?
If he's mixing it up, is he interested in route finding, or is he the escalator designer? I mean, something along those lines.
Karen:
Ohh!​ Or, yeah, I like maybe this interior strategizing. Maybe they had a survey, and women are like, why are my shoes— Because usually women's shoes are first floor or B1 nowadays. They're never that high up.
Colin:
Ah, see I was being cynical and thinking they're marching them past all the other merchandise. So they have to buy something on their way to and from getting the shoes.
Tom:
You are right that he was not interested in the shoes themselves. And you're right that he is... choosing the products very carefully.
Karen:
Ohh?
Dan:
Market​ research? So not like an undercover shopper, but seeing what their competitors are doing? Oh, you've got your shoes there. Oh, this is where you stack your... Can't think of any other words. There are no products in the world.
SFX:
(Tom and Colin chuckle)
Colin:
Boot​s. (laughs) Right, right. Seeing, how can I improve, maybe, perhaps?
Dan:
But then why would you even bother asking the employees? He specifically asked employees. You could just go
Colin:
Yeah​.
Dan:
and walk around the shop. But he's asking employees. That's important.
Tom:
Yes. And asked dozens of employees the same question at the same store.
Colin:
The same question. Okay, is he... I mean, checking for courtesy or memorizing the company tagline, or something, I don't know, very nitpicky?
Karen:
Or maybe there isn't a floor for women's shoes. And it's kind of, I don't know, he's trying to see if people are BSing him.
Tom:
The answer was always the same. And it was the same at the other stores.
Dan:
It was always on the fourth floor? Is he a scaffolding merchant? No...
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Colin:
Hmm.
Dan:
Or a stair salesman?
Hey, can you get up to the fourth floor? Is it accessible? No? Have some stairs.
Karen:
(laughs) Try stairs!
SFX:
(Tom and Dan laugh)
Colin:
Ahh!
Dan:
Or an escalator?
Colin:
Poss​ibly.
Dan:
An escalator is a possibility.
Karen:
Elev​ator, or...
Tom:
At some point someone had to invent the stairs(!)
Karen:
Of course.
Colin:
Righ​t, right.
Tom:
No, in this case, he was compiling a study.
Colin:
Is it, you know, disability access? Like, is there a way for someone in a wheelchair to get to the fourth floor?
Tom:
He could just find that out himself. He didn't need to ask dozens of employees at each store.
Colin:
True​, true.
Dan:
Are the words 'fourth' and 'floor' important here?
Karen:
Oh!
Tom:
Yes, they are.
Dan:
I feel like it's something about their— the way they're said or something.
Karen:
Ooh.
Tom:
Yes.
Dan:
In the UK, the ground floor is what you call the first floor in the US.
Karen:
Yes.
Colin:
Yes,​ yes.
Dan:
So I'm wondering if that's going to be a thing then.
Tom:
It's not. Not in this case.
Karen:
Or L. Like floor one versus a lobby floor. Ooh, or four being an unlucky number in some cultures.
Colin:
Okay​, so, so he's trying to elicit people to say "fourth floor".
Tom:
Yes, he is.
Colin:
Is what I— okay. So he's doing a study perhaps on the linguistics of the sounds involved in the words "fourth floor".
Tom:
Yes, he is.
Dan:
Is he trying to learn an American accent or something?
Tom:
He is trying to study American accents.
Karen:
What​?!
Colin:
Ohh!
Tom:
And because I have enough of a linguistics background here, I am going to ask us to drill down and try and figure out what the difference might be.
Karen:
Four​th.
Tom:
And what might be helpful is if each of you three
Karen:
(gasps)
Tom:
say the words.
Dan:
Fohth floh.
Karen:
Four​th floor.
Colin:
Four​th floor.
Tom:
There was a distinct difference there between how Dan said it and how Karen and Colin said it.
Karen:
Yes,​ for sure.
Colin:
Yes.
Tom:
Which is?
Colin:
Yeah​, the American R.
Tom:
Exactl​y right. Keep going, Colin.
Colin:
Well​, I mean, in fourth floor, versus the eliding over the R in fourth floor.
Tom:
Yes.
Colin:
Whic​h would be closer to a more UK typical pronunciation.
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
Oh!
Tom:
This was linguist William Labov, who was studying the New York accent. And he couldn't—
Karen:
Oh, I was just gonna say. It's a Manhattan, and that's even more a distinct accent.
Tom:
So why couldn't he just say, "How do you say fourth"?
Karen:
Beca​use he's British.
Colin:
Yeah​, or they would subconsciously mirror it back to him.
Tom:
Yes.
Colin:
Or change— They'd be aware of how they're saying it.
Tom:
Yep, they'd be self-conscious. So he found a natural question.
He went to department store workers and asked where certain products were, so he could record the way they said "fourth floor" without saying it himself in a way that might prompt a response. Absolutely right.
Colin:
Bril​liant.
Tom:
He found that workers were significantly more likely to use the traditional NYC... Look, there's just a lot of Ws in this pronunciation here.
Colin:
(laughs sardonically) Foawwth.
Karen:
Foaw​wth.
Colin:
Faww​th flaw.
Tom:
Yep, yes. At high-end stores. In the cheaper shops, staff use a more general Midwestern... There's a lot of Rs in this. If someone could...
Karen:
Four​th.
Colin:
Four​th.
Tom:
Yes.
Colin:
Four​th.
Tom:
Absolu​tely right. And today, Labov...
I've just seen the pronunciation guide. It might be "la-bove". I'm really sorry if it is. He is widely— because I should know that—
He is widely considered the father of sociolinguistics.
Karen:
Wow!
Dan:
Didn't​ even buy anything in any of the shops. What a cheapskate! Anyway.
SFX:
(Tom and Colin laugh)
Tom:
If there's one thing I know from studying linguistics, Dan, is that the budgets for studies are not that high.
Karen:
(cackles)
Dan:
Indeed​.
Colin:
(laughs) Yeah.
Tom:
Dan, it is your question.
Dan:
Alrigh​ty then!
A woman crouches beyond a white line with people either side of her. She then sprints for 50 feet (or 15 metres), stops, and turns around. Soon, she's surrounded by people who ignore her. What's happening?
A woman crouches beyond a white line with people either side of her. She then sprints for 50 feet (or 15 metres), stops, and turns around. Soon, she is surrounded by people who ignore her. What's happening?
Colin:
Well​, I mean... we're being led, I think, to think of, you know, some sort of track meet scenario.
Karen:
Yeah​.
Colin:
You know, possibly.
Karen:
Do you think that's a misdirection? Because the first thought I had in my mind, is... maybe it was a race. And sometimes people don't go to the porta-potty or the bathroom 'cause they're running.
Tom:
Oh!
Karen:
And they'll just...
SFX:
(Tom and Colin chuckle)
Karen:
They​'ll just kind of go or crouch down and do their business and, you know, finish the race. And people are kind of like, "Okay, we're staying away from that."
Dan:
You would be ignoring that person very much.
Karen:
Yes,​ you would be ignoring that person. So you're trying to play it cool. You're like, I did not see all that stuff in their shorts.
Tom:
(laughs) Oh, that was...
Colin:
Ooh.​..
Dan:
(giggles profusely)
Colin:
Oh dear.
Tom:
Unnece​ssarily graphic.
Dan:
(laughs)
Colin:
Oh, yes, yeah. We were ready to move on. Just that little, the last detail, the parting shot there, yeah.
Karen:
Sorr​y, yeah. I have no social skills.
Tom:
My first thought was that it might be a false start at a track and field event.
Because you're crouching in the blocks. You get up, you run... and oh, there is no one else going. The gun didn't go. There's the— I think there's an alarm that sounds if you go off early. So after about 15 metres, you would stop, and you would turn around and come back again.
But that feels a very... That doesn't feel like a lateral answer to me.
Colin:
Yeah​, yeah, yeah. I feel like we're not necessarily looking for a weird edge case here. We're looking for, yeah, something... that is hiding before us.
Karen:
So she runs. She stops.
Tom:
She sprints.
Karen:
She goes, she sprints, and then she returns.
Dan:
She turns around.
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
She turns around.
Colin:
She turns around.
Tom:
Bonnie​ Tyler. Doing To— No, sorry.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Sorry,​ I heard the words "turn around" and my brain just activated.
Dan:
I think that's an automatic trigger for any Brit, I think.
Tom:
Yep.
Colin:
It'l​l be playing in my head for the rest of this segment. No doubt.
Karen:
♪ And I need you now ♪
SFX:
(Tom and Colin chuckle)
Colin:
Is this a person maybe who's, you know, like they're working in a meta capacity at a track event? Like, you know, maybe a videographer or a photog or somebody?
Karen:
Oh!
Colin:
You know, where they're not the person performing, but they kinda have to mirror some of the actions? I don't know.
Dan:
We are not at a track and field event.
Karen:
Okay​, okay, got it. It's, yeah, it's hard to...
Dan:
I'm gonna move you away from there.
Tom:
So my thought is some other sporting thing. But I... (cracks up) That's not... That's not gonna be my specialty.
Dan:
I'm gonna move you away from sport as well.
Tom:
Oh, okay.
Karen:
Ohh.​ Okay.
Colin:
Whit​e lines.
Dan:
I like disappointing people. This is excellent.
Tom:
(laughs)
Karen:
A school setting? A drill? Maybe...
Colin:
Some​thing military perhaps? I don't know, like...
Dan:
I will say if you can work out what she's doing...
Colin:
Mhm.
Dan:
Then the where might follow afterwards. But the action itself might be a way in here. 'Cause it is important that she turns around.
Tom:
Crouch​ behind a white line, sprint 15 metres, turn 'round. Okay.
Karen:
Mayb​e she's... She doesn't wanna miss something that's behind her, but she wants to keep moving forward? Mm.
Colin:
I mean, it feels like a very regimented distance that, you know, this is the distance you do it.
Tom:
You are setting off an explosive, and the fuse is way too short.
Dan:
(cackles dourly)
Karen:
Yeah​.
Colin:
Yeah​. But you wanna be close enough to see it.
Tom:
Right,​ yeah.
Colin:
I mean, you're not going through all that trouble and not see it.
Karen:
Fire​works.
Tom:
It's like when you, like, as a kid launching fireworks. Like, eh, it's fine, don't need to— Okay, I'm running now!
Karen:
Yeah​, yeah, yeah.
Dan:
And people would ignore her, 'cause they're currently going, "Ooh."
Tom:
Don't play with fireworks, kids.
Dan:
No.
Colin:
Okay​, yeah.
Dan:
She is turning around to face a friend.
Colin:
Okay​. But it's... yeah, she's facing a friend.
Karen:
Mayb​e she, I mean... The photographer angle is nice. Maybe she's trying to take a picture of her friend and trying to line it up.
Dan:
(nods silently)
Karen:
Mayb​e it's like one of those Pisa, Leaning Tower of Pisa, where they're trying to do a pinchy photo or something.
Tom:
Maybe she's the one being photographed.
Colin:
Ahhh​! She has to set the timer on her camera and jog back to position.
Karen:
She'​s an influencer.
Colin:
Hmm.
Karen:
She'​s doing a selfie.
Dan:
You're​ getting there.
Tom:
50 metres though. That's what, about three, five seconds at a good... If you're gonna speed up, slow down, that's about the... it's about the length of time a camera will take on a timer.
Karen:
Oh, I see.
Colin:
That​'s a pretty— It's a pretty long distance, though, to be taking a selfie, right, at 50 feet.
Karen:
It is.
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
And to be leaving your camera equipment there.
Colin:
Hmm.
Dan:
So she was with a friend. So it's— So someone else was looking after the camera.
Karen:
Okay​.
Colin:
Ah.
Tom:
She is Wile E. Coyote in a cartoon and has run out over the cliff, and is just doing the realisation to turn back and get the picture before gravity kicks in.
Colin:
(chuckles)
Karen:
Oh, Daniel, you did say once we figure out kind of her activity, then the place and her whereabouts will come into focus.
Colin:
Ah, right.
Dan:
Yeah.
Karen:
So it's something—
Dan:
Becaus​e... She turns around, and then soon after that, she's surrounded by people who ignore her.
Tom:
Oh, I forgot that part. I completely forgot that part of the question.
Dan:
Yeah.
Colin:
Yeah​, runs out. Runs out with a friend, facing a friend. Surrounded by people who ignore her, yet are surrounding her.
Tom:
Oh, oh. It's one of those... long exposure photos. No, the sprinting doesn't make sense then. I thought it was like she's standing steady, and all the people around her are blurred.
Karen:
Ohh!
Colin:
For an artistic effect.
Tom:
But that doesn't— The sprint doesn't make sense. You don't need to take time to go for that.
Karen:
Yeah​.
Colin:
Yeah​! I mean, I'm thinking of a natural phenomenon, like a geyser or something, where you have to time it to some external event maybe. But the people ignoring, surrounding or—
Karen:
Mayb​e, what are the people do— Maybe the people are paying attention to some... something else that's more important. Maybe it's like the Mona Lisa situation or—
Tom:
That crossing in Japan, Shibuya, where there's just so many people going past, and they— there are so many people with cameras there that they just ignore them all the time.
Dan:
Tom, that's correct.
Tom:
Eyy!
Karen:
Ohh!​ (applauds)
Colin:
Whoa​!
Tom:
Becaus​e you have to...
Karen:
You have to cross.
Dan:
So what's going on?
Tom:
Becaus​e... after a few seconds, the light will change. The people will not be in position. She wants to get there. Oh, no! She wants to get there ahead of everyone else!
Dan:
There we go.
Tom:
She wants to get the crossing while it's empty!
Dan:
There we go. She's taking a photo at Shibuya pedestrian crossing. She wants to be in the middle without the crowds.
Tom:
(sighs)
Karen:
Wow!
Colin:
And has to just book it.
Dan:
This is the famous Shibuya Scramble pedestrian crossing in Japan.
Colin:
Ah-h​uh.
Dan:
User bananapeel290 on TikTok posted a video of herself sprinting to the middle of the crossing and turning around.
Karen:
Pose​.
Dan:
So that her friend could take the photo. And then sprinting ahead of the crowds allowed her friend to take a clear shot before she's swarmed either side by people using the crossing.
Karen:
Ah, the people on each side? Yes, oh!
Tom:
There is a film studio in Japan that has built a replica crossing.
Colin:
(laughs)
Tom:
There'​s a lot of green screen around it for the detailed parts. But they have duplicated every bit of curb and every pavement and every line, just so people can film without having to get permission.
Colin:
(laughs) They'll still issue you tickets. It's that accurate.
SFX:
(Tom and Dan laugh)
Tom:
Thank you to Simon Lombart for this question.
Gwenny and Marino had a child called Alex. In 2023, Gwenny gave birth to their 13th child. They say their family is now complete, but mathematically, they could have up to 11 more if they wanted to use every possibility. How?
And I will give you that one more time.
Gwenny and Marino had a child called Alex. In 2023, Gwenny gave birth to their 13th child. They say their family is now complete, but mathematically, they could have up to 11 more if they wanted to use every possibility. How?
Karen:
Okay​, I have a feeling Gwenny and Marino are not humans.
Dan:
Mm, mm.
Colin:
Yeah​, yeah. That was my first angle. Yeah, either horses or pigeons or something.
Karen:
Hams​ters, rabbits? Or no to...
Dan:
Guinea​ pigs. It'll be some form of fast breeding thing.
Tom:
It is a standard Lateral trope to just make a question be about animals when it sounds like it's about humans.
But in this case, Gwenny and Marino are people.
Karen:
No!
Colin:
Oh-k​ay.
Dan:
(sighs)
Karen:
How?​! Oh.
Dan:
I hate this show.
SFX:
(Tom and Dan laugh)
Dan:
Finall​y, I think I'm getting a handle on it. All nice and confident.
Karen:
I know, I know.
Dan:
No. Okay.
Colin:
13..​.
Karen:
And 11 more. So their 13th child, and mathematically could have... 11 more.
Dan:
That makes 24. But add in Gwenny, Marino. That makes 26.
Karen:
26!
Dan:
Suspic​ious number o'clock.
Karen:
Alex​?
Colin:
Mhm.
Karen:
The first name is Alex, the first child. So maybe—
Dan:
Oh, that's true.
Colin:
Alex​. Are they working their way through the alphabet?
Karen:
What​ a strange goal!
Tom:
It's not working their way through the alphabet, but it is related to the names.
Colin:
Okay​. 24 every...
Alright, I'm trying, I'm struggling to think of, you know... muses or gods or things, where there's a set of 24 to be named after.
Dan:
Greek letters. There are 24 of those.
Karen:
Ohh?
Colin:
Mm.
Dan:
But I don't see how that helps.
SFX:
(Dan and Tom laugh)
Colin:
Yeah​.
Karen:
Gwen​ny and Marino. What, what...
Dan:
How are Gwenny and Marino spelt please?
Tom:
It's not actually relevant, that one.
Karen:
Okay​.
Dan:
Okay.
Tom:
I can give you their full names. They are Gwenny Blanckaert and Marino Vaneenoo. I'm again probably mispronouncing that, but... not relevant to the question.
Dan:
Hmm.
Tom:
But it is to do with the names. You're right there.
Karen:
2003​ is their first child, Alex?
Tom:
No, they've had a child called Alex.
Colin:
Thos​e are two facts.
Tom:
Yes, two facts. Gwenny and Marino had a child called Alex. And in 2023, Gwenny gave birth to their 13th child.
Colin:
Alri​ght. So now there was some emphasis on... by every possibility, right? I mean, why would there be an end? You know, why would they... could have up to 11 more, alright? I mean, so it's definitely...
Karen:
A contained set.
Colin:
It's​ not open-ended. That's right. They must know already what that last possibility would be.
Tom:
Yes.
Dan:
And it's not a power of two either. If that makes any sense. So it's not... 2, 4, 8, 16, 32.
Tom:
But what is that maximum number?
Dan:
24?
Tom:
Yes.
Colin:
24.
Karen:
24.
Dan:
Number​ of hours in the day. They wanted to give birth between zero and one.
Karen:
Oh my gosh.
Dan:
Betwee​n one and two, no.
Colin:
Ah. But the names, the names. It has to do with names.
Tom:
It's definitely the names.
Colin:
Okay​, so, so... It's not the alphabet. I mean, unless they're including their selves. Right, Daniel, as mentioned. Is it a short— Is it that the names are nicknames, and they're working their way through...
Karen:
Alex​, Alexander.
Colin:
Shor​t...
Karen:
Alex​ is short for Alexander.
Tom:
Concen​trate on the name Alex.
Dan:
So that starts with A, ends with X.
Tom:
Mm, it does, yes.
Karen:
Oh?
Colin:
Mm.
Karen:
Mayb​e all the different ways to spell Alex. A-L-Y-X.
Dan:
Oh, there are 24 ways of
Karen:
No!
Dan:
arrang​ing four things, I think.
Tom:
(points silently)
Karen:
I was kidding!
Colin:
Ther​e you go.
Dan:
I think there are.
Colin:
Wow.​ Is that actually—
Dan:
So are they doing all the anagrams of Alex?
Tom:
Yes, they are.
Karen:
Lexa​.
SFX:
Wow.
Tom:
Yes. And those are, so far...
Colin:
Wow.
SFX:
(guys giggling)
Karen:
Okay​, please.
Tom:
I've got a script in front of me. Here we go.
Karen:
Okay​.
Tom:
Alex, Axel, Xela, Lexa, Xael, Xeal, Exla, Leax, Xale, Elax, Alxe, Laex, and now Laxe.
Dan:
That's​ actually quite a nice set of names.
Tom:
(laughs)
Colin:
I mean, be that as it may, I do feel that the early children maybe got the fine names.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Yes, in theory, they could have four-factorial children with this pattern: 4 x 3 x 2 x 1. You're absolutely right, Dan. That is the number of ways the letters can be rearranged.
Some combinations, not really an option due to difficult pronunciation.
Karen:
Yeah​.
Tom:
But that is the possibility space of those four letters.
Colin:
(laughs)
Dan:
That's​ great. I wonder, at what point did they start thinking they want to do this? 'Cause it must be at child two at the very start.
Karen:
Yes,​ yeah.
Colin:
Righ​t.
Dan:
But child two requires the first name to be... quite a reasonable name to begin with. 'Cause you can't do it with, say, the word Rachel or something that you're gonna have really difficult anagrams of that.
So did they plan it at child one? They're gonna go, we've got a plan here.
Karen:
Or they're having their morning coffee, and someone's just like—
Dan:
Do you know what would be fun?
Karen:
What​ if...
Dan:
(laughs)
Tom:
This is actually a personal anecdote from Simon, who sent the question in. Two of the children in the school he's an administrator in.
Karen:
(gasps)
Tom:
But we do have a news article to back it up. There is evidence here outside just our question writer's word here. We do have a news article to back up the family naming.
Dan:
That's​ amazing.
Karen:
Wow.
Tom:
Karen,​ I think it's your question left. Whenever you're ready.
Karen:
Woo-​hoo!
This question has been sent in by Tom Donnelly.
Since becoming a parent in Norway, Tom's cell phone has gradually accumulated phone numbers of other parents. The more walks he goes on, the more numbers he gathers. Why is this, and why will he message –but not meet – some of those parents?
Once again.
Since becoming a parent in Norway, Tom's cell phone has gradually accumulated phone numbers of other parents. The more walks he goes on, the more numbers he gathers. Why is this, and why will he message – but not meet – some of those parents?
Dan:
I think it's because Tom is staggeringly attractive.
Tom:
Thank you! Oh sorry, not me, not me, sorry.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Dan:
I couldn't possibly comment.
Tom:
I have a weird knowledge thing that I've never seen in person, but been told, that in parts of Norway, it is traditional to just leave your kid outside in the cold to get some fresh air. Like even when it's really, really cold, like Norwegian cold outside, you bundle the kid up and you put 'em outside because it is healthy for them. So I'm wondering if there's—
Colin:
I've​ heard that.
Tom:
If there's some monitoring the kids system, like as he goes for walks, like, yep, kid's still there, check.
Dan:
Is there— Is my kid missing? Please call.
Tom:
Oh yeah, to be clear, when I say kid, I mean like baby here. I'm not talking like bundling up your 14-year-old and going, "There you go, out in the cold."
Dan:
That is effective parenting though.
Tom:
(laughs)
Colin:
Itâ€â€‹” I mean, if it's— Alright, so these other numbers are to other parents, I believe was the bit of info we got there. So, he's out. He's walking his child. The other parents are saying, "I'd love to do that too. Let me know the next time you go out."
Karen:
So clarification, or an addition: In theory, childless people could also do this.
Dan:
Ooh.
Tom:
'Cause​ yeah, parents trade numbers all the time. You're gonna meet outside the school gates when you're picking your kids up, or whatever the Norwegian equivalent of that is. I don't know if that's a thing they do there. I imagine in the US, it's school buses, but you're gonna trade numbers with other parents.
So... but why on walks?
Colin:
And message, but never meet.
Tom:
Right.
Dan:
I think I've cracked this.
Tom:
Ooh? Oh.
Dan:
We've assumed that he's walking a child. And I don't think he is.
I think, is he walking pets? Is he walking dogs instead? And people are going up to him, and say, "Yes, you can walk my dog." And therefore he'd collect the dog and would never meet the other owner at a future point in time?
Tom:
It's a really brave move, Dan, to open with, "I think I've cracked this."
Dan:
I think I've cracked it!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Do you still think you've cracked it?
Dan:
No? I've seen Karen's face. I'm still going for it.
Karen:
This​ is a Gwenny and Marino situation, where they are humans. Everybody's human.
Colin:
Alri​ght, alright.
Dan:
Still hate the show.
Colin:
Coll​ecting numbers, message but not meet. So he's sending either information or photos, right? I mean, those are the two reasons that you would message another human and yet not meet that human.
Tom:
Is there some parent communication system that involves putting your number up somewhere?
Like as you go for a walk, there is a space where you're like, leave your number here if you are a parent because... X. And I don't know what X would be.
Karen:
You'​re onto something. It's not a space. Where do you think these numbers appear? Like where are these phone numbers?
Dan:
Hangin​g on a tree.
SFX:
(Dan and Karen laugh)
Tom:
These are phone numbers, right?
Karen:
Ah, the numbers tree.
Tom:
These are definitely phone numbers? This isn't some—
Karen:
Phon​e numbers, yes.
Tom:
Hmm.
Karen:
It's​ not a space.
Dan:
It's not a space.
Colin:
It's​ not a space?
Tom:
It's a time! No.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Dan:
Is it written on paper?
Karen:
Not necessarily paper. Not paper.
Dan:
Mm, okay.
Karen:
I love what Tom noted earlier, that, you know, leaving babies or maybe kids out is kind of part of the culture.
Colin:
Okay​, so maybe he's just doing welfare check and sending photos of, "Hey, I spotted your kid. They're still okay." I mean, but we sort of went through that idea.
Tom:
Is the number written on the kid?
Karen:
No.
Tom:
Okay.
Colin:
Oh, good thinking though.
Karen:
What​— yeah, what is the number written on?
Dan:
The box on the outside or something. But no, okay.
Colin:
The kid box.
Karen:
The kid box.
Tom:
Are the kids carrying the numbers with them?
Karen:
Usua​lly. Usually the kids are carrying the numbers with them.
Tom:
They all have the phone numbers in their jackets because they keep leaving them behind places. And it's like, "if lost, return to."
Colin:
Mm.
Karen:
Y-y-​yes, yes. And it doesn't apply to just jackets. It's everything.
Dan:
It's on all belongings of said child.
Karen:
All belongings. All belongings.
Tom:
Wow.
Colin:
Ah, and it's, I found it, and I left it on this park bench. Or I found it, and it's by the water.
Dan:
And that's why you wouldn't meet them. 'Cause you just go, "Here, that's where it is." And then you go and collect it.
Tom:
Your kid has once again left their favourite toy, their jacket, their whatever here.
Karen:
Yes,​ so... Norway has a very strong communal and also a strong outdoor, "get some fresh air" culture. So children, kindergarten age, around that age, they often play outside in all types of weather conditions. Which means a lot of stuff – not just jackets, but gloves, hats, scarves – they get kind of maybe mixed up or even left behind.
And so in Norway, the telephone numbers are written on labels, like in all of the clothes.
And so as Tom walks through, you know, takes a little stroll, he will often find lost items on the ground. He looks to see if there's a phone number on the tag, on the label, and then will arrange to meet, to hand them back, or let the people know where they left their stuff.
Tom:
That's​ so much better than the British system of just stick the lost glove on a fence post nearby.
Karen:
(laughs heartily)
Colin:
Yeah​, yeah, yeah. Or the American tradition of you just keep it.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Colin:
Whic​h also is, yeah.
Tom:
Which leads me to the question that I asked the audience at the very start of the show.
What profession is the subject of the documentary film 20 Feet from Stardom?
Before I give the answer to the audience, does anyone want to take a quick shot at that?
Karen:
Oh, I already know.
Colin:
Kare​n knows this one.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Dan:
I'd go with Karen then.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Karen?
Karen:
I believe the profession is background singer.
Tom:
Yes, it is. This is the people who are in the background of the stage, 20 feet from the star. How did you know that?
Karen:
Oh, it's a terrific documentary.
Colin:
It's​ a good doc, yeah.
Karen:
It's​ a lot of like, ah, hopes and dreams and tension, and it's like, can they make it? And the title itself, like, you're 20 feet away. You're a background singer. The star is right there. And it's like, when can I have that chance?
It's just, it's a really well done— I believe it won an Oscar too. I believe it won an Academy Award. But yeah, terrific. I highly recommend.
Tom:
Well, congratulations to all three of our players for running the gauntlet.
What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you?
We'll start with Dan.
Dan:
You can find me on Twitch and YouTube. I stream on Twitch a few nights a week. Search for quizzydan.
Tom:
Colin,​ tell us about Good Job, Brain.
Colin:
Good Job, Brain we have been doing for 12 years. I can scarcely believe it, since before children.
But it is a mix of pub quiz style questions, crazy stories, fun facts, trivia nuggets, and with our beloved... still with us, not dead, our beloved partner, Chris. Karen and I—
SFX:
(others laughing)
Colin:
Kare​n and I meet to share the joy.
Tom:
And Karen, where can people find it?
Karen:
You can find it on goodjobbrain.com and on all podcast apps.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com. There are full video episodes every week on Spotify, regular highlights on YouTube and TikTok, and we are at @lateralcast basically everywhere. And if you go to lateralcast.com, you can send in your own ideas for questions.
Thank you very much to Karen Chu.
Karen:
Than​k you!
Tom:
Colin Felton!
Colin:
Than​k you very much.
Tom:
Daniel​ Peake.
Dan:
(high voice) Happy pea!
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott... (high voice) and that's been Lateral!
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