150: Here's a xylophone | Lateral with Tom Scott

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Episode 150: Here's a xylophone

Published 22nd August, 2025

Transcription by Caption+

Tom:On Roblox, why are there a surprisingly large number of games with sea creatures in the title? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Today, on Lateral, we have a triple shot of folks from Morning Brew, who I must add, did not sponsor this podcast. We just invited them on anyway. They take steaming hot news from the world of business, grind it up into small sips, and have a load of oat milk and caramel syrup to make it digestible. Though I'm not a huge fan of coffee myself, if I may espresso an opinion. First to spill the beans, we have Macy Gilliam.

Macy:Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

Tom:I mean, you were, I think the person who wrote in and asked, "Can we be on Lateral?" That was—

Macy:I'm a huge fan of the show. So I'm just literally so happy to be here. It doesn't even matter if I get any questions right.

Tom:How does it feel now (laughs) staring down the barrel of a webcam and realising that this time, the answers have to come from you?

Macy:It is scary. I hope that I'm good at it. I feel like some episodes, I know all the answers. In some episodes, I'm like, I would not get those at all. So, we'll see.

Tom:Well, very best of luck to you. You are joined by two other people from Morning Brew, who are the... Toby, you are one half I think of the sort of breakfast news podcast of Morning Brew. So, your job is to analyse and distill and pull out just the facts. How are you feeling right now?

Toby:I'm feeling good 'cause I have my other half of the podcast with me, Neal. We co-host Morning Brew Daily, which is just a 25-minute business news podcast that makes you insufferable in your office, because you have all the fun facts from the news cycle you can just drop by the water cooler. So, very excited for this. Macy turned us onto it, and I am also a little bit nervous staring down the barrel of a webcam.

Tom:The last person dragged by Macy into the show...

SFX:(group giggling)

Tom:It may not be true, but that's the narrative we're going with. Neal Freyman, welcome to the show.

Neal:Thank you. Super excited. I feel much better than those two. I'm ready to go.

SFX:(others laughing)

Neal:I'm just gonna let them cook because I'm gonna know the answers off the bat every single time.

Tom:Oh no, you've gotta be careful with that. There is a chance you set yourself up as the villain of the show there.

Neal:I think that's what we're going with.

Tom:(laughs) Well, good luck to all three of you. Let us percolate your thoughts about question one. Thank you to Brady Joyce for this question. The Parks and Recreation Department of Moberly, Missouri put up a sign saying: "'Xylophone' – you're welcome". Why? I'll say that again. The Parks and Recreation Department of Moberly, Missouri put up a sign saying: "'Xylophone' – you're welcome". Why?

Macy:I feel like this has to do with the letter X? And 'xylophone' and the letter X never get any love? I don't know how "Mohb-a-lee" is spelled. There could be a sneaky X somewhere at the end of that.

Toby:Was it "Mohb-a-lee", Missouri or "Morb-a-lee", Alabama?

Tom:Missouri. Would that make a difference?

Toby:Well, I don't know. Like Mobile, Alabama. Like Mobile, Alabama.

Tom:Oh, I could've just been mispronouncing an American place name. Yeah, that's fair.

Toby:I don't know. I don't know, yeah.

Macy:Can we get a spelling of the city, or is that gonna give something away?

Tom:M-O-B-E-R-L-Y. Moberly, Missouri.

Macy:Okay.

Tom:It might be Mob-a-lee. If this was Britain, it could just be "Mulleh".

SFX:(guests laughing)

Tom:But I'm assuming Moberly.

Macy:It's a good language joke.

Tom:(chuckles)

Neal:Is it a response... to something or someone? What is accompanying the xylophone? Is it a physical xylophone itself? Is it someone asking a question of the Parks and Recs department? Is it a physical thing that they're putting out there? What are your best ideas?

Toby:Okay, so there's two parts of xylophone. Xylophone is either X, because it's obviously the number one X word that you talk about, or it's just a sound, and so pre-answering a question by saying, "It's a xylophone, guys." I'm thinking maybe some sound is emanating from somewhere, and they're going, "Oh, it's a xylophone." Like before you ask, those noises you're hearing, that's a xylophone.

Macy:I wonder if it's... you know those roadside games at night that try to keep you awake by asking you trivia questions like you might see on this podcast. So it's like, the answer at the end, they're like, "It was xylophone. You're welcome."

Toby:I feel like you just got it, Macy. Well, I don't know. I'm trying to read Tom's face here too.

Macy:I'm trying to read what Tom is doing.

Toby:You know, like the alphabet game on road trips, where you have to get—

Neal:Yes!

Toby:And so you're like, here's a sign for X, and X is xylophone. So good.

Tom:You are absolutely right. For those who don't know the alphabet game, Toby, what is it?

Toby:It's just when you're on a long road trip, you try to find words that start with every letter of the alphabet, A through Z. And obviously X is the hardest one. So, thank you Parks and Rec department in Missouri.

Neal:Good job, Toby.

Tom:Yes, the full sign says: "Playing the alphabet game? 'Xylophone'. You're welcome, Moberly Parks & Recreation."

Macy:That's good.

Toby:That feels cheap though.

SFX:(Tom and Macy laugh)

Macy:I wouldn't let my siblings get away with that in the alphabet game.

Tom:(laughs heartily)

Macy:(chuckles)

Toby:In America, honestly, a big billboard... you know, advertiser in middle America are like... some X-rated turnoff shops or something like that. So usually that's the only way to get it, is if you see a XXX on the next right turn, so.

Tom:And that's an awkward thing if you're a family playing this with kids.

Macy:Right.

Toby:"You're like, oh!"

Macy:That you go, "Hey, look at that billboard."

Toby:Yeah, triple-X.

Tom:Or you're driving on the road to Vegas from LA, and you're passing Zzyzx Road. There aren't that many...

Toby:Oh.

Macy:That's a deep cut.

Tom:Oh, there's— Sorry. I'm dealing with three east coasters here, aren't I?

Macy:Yeah.

Tom:Okay.

Macy:Wait, I'm like, I'm middle America. I'm east coast now.

Neal:Isn't the number one thing you see on the road the word 'exit'?

Toby:No, it's the first letter.

Neal:Oh, but it has to start. Oh, okay, sorry. I play a different version.

Macy:I was like, wait.

Neal:I play the beginner version.

Tom:Yes, this is a sign for people playing the alphabet game with road signs. Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We will start today with Toby.

Toby:Alright, first question. This question has been sent in by Ben Wiles. When US President James A. Garfield was shot in 1881, doctors struggled to find the bullet so that it could be removed. Alexander Graham Bell was— brought in a prototype metal detector. The device was working perfectly, but the bullet wasn't found until after Garfield's death. Why? I know that was a long one, so I'll do it one more time. When US President James A. Garfield was shot in 1881, doctors struggled to find the bullet so that it could be removed. Alexander Graham Bell bought— brought in a prototype metal detector. The device was working perfectly, but the bullet wasn't found until after Garfield's death. Why?

Neal:Does it have to do with the magnetism in his blood that was obscuring the metal of the bullet?

Macy:Is that a thing?

Toby:(wheezes)

Neal:It's totally made— I'm no doctor.

Macy:Sorry, sorry, not to shut you down.

SFX:(Macy and Tom laugh)

Tom:No, but magnetism in blood, to be fair, is that pseudoscience stuff you find being sold with the bracelets in shopping malls?

Neal:No, I meant by magnetism and blood, I meant electrical pulses that may have obs— I mean, something has to have been different from when... he was alive or dead.

Tom:I'm gonna take the obvious route one solution here and just say the bullet wasn't in him. There was just an exit wound no one had spotted. And after he died, someone went, "Oh, there's the bullet. Oh, it's actually on the floor over there."

Toby:The bullet is— was still inside him.

Tom:Okay, okay.

Macy:Okay. I wonder if there was a previous surgery or something he had, where he had a metal plate or something, and the bullet was behind that? Or is it because it's a... early metal detector, it just wasn't working?

Neal:Well, I said it was working. I wonder how good surgery was back in the 1880s, if they could insert a plate into you.

Tom:I feel like inserting a plate is... I feel like 1880s surgery would've been quite good at removing stuff and probably not all that good at putting stuff in.

Toby:There was no other metal inside Garfield's body. So he didn't, you know, have a broken collarbone and a plate on that, or anything like that.

Macy:Okay.

Tom:I didn't know Alexander Graham Bell had a metal detector prototype. It makes sense given what he was working with, but...

Toby:Yeah, apparently it was good too. It worked. This thing functioned.

Neal:Did the metal detector find the bullet after, or are those two things separate?

Toby:The metal detector did not find the bullet.

Macy:Was it a silver bullet? Would silver not set off a metal detector or something, if the bullet was made out of something?

Tom:Was Garfield a werewolf?

SFX:(guests chuckle)

Toby:Garfield was not a werewolf to my knowledge.

Tom:(laughs)

Toby:I mean, you never know.

Macy:It's a good point.

Toby:Macy, a silver bullet would set off a metal detector. But the bullet itself was lead. So, it was not a wooden bullet or something like that.

Tom:Okay, so a metal detector works by... You move a coil of wire with... Yeah, you move a coil of wire past metal. That induces an electric current. That current gets amplified. It... sets off a dial or screams in your ears or something like that, so... How would that not go off if you're waving it over the guy who's got a bullet in him?

Toby:The hint I will give is it did... it did go off.

Macy:Okay. The metal detector maybe showed it was in his leg, and then they looked around in his leg, and they didn't see it? Is that...

Tom:His leg was no longer attached. Sorry, I've got all the gruesome answers today.

Toby:(giggles) You wanna put stuff in Garfield? You wanna cut his legs off? Yeah.

Neal:From the wording of the question, it wasn't that they didn't find it. It wasn't that they couldn't access it. It was that they just didn't even locate it until after he was dead, so...

Toby:So the timeline of his death wasn't that they were looking for the bullet, and he bled out right there on the spot. It was, they were looking for the bullet, but he ended up dying weeks and— or months later. So it wasn't a cause-and-effect sort of situation.

Tom:So it would've been autopsy, or I guess we wanna be really gruesome, cremation when they found the bullet.

Toby:(chuckles) Yeah, auto— They did— They did eventually find it

Tom:Okay.

Toby:after he had passed, yeah.

Macy:But you said that the metal detector did go off.

Toby:Yes.

Tom:So what's it detecting?

Neal:This is gnarly.

Toby:Something else in the room was causing part of the issue. Was causing an issue.

Tom:So it's not detecting the bullet... but something else is setting it off.

Macy:I'm not that well versed in my metal detector uses.

Neal:The Oval Office desk.

Tom:He's�� Well if he's president, is there extra security around him or something? Or extra procedures that are setting off a metal detector?

Toby:Maybe just think about where a procedure would take place.

Neal:In a hospital bed.

Tom:Is he on a metal bed?

Toby:He's on...

Neal:What?

Toby:a bed with metal springs in it. And so, whenever they were trying to find out where the bullet was, they kept getting "(rapid beeping)" because the entire bed was setting off the metal detector.

Tom:And it is 1881, and no one has quite figured out how to calibrate that, or that perhaps, you might wanna move him to a different place!

Toby:(cracks up) That felt like a logical... You're like, "Wait, we're getting a lot of detection here." Either he was shot a bunch of times, or maybe...

SFX:(Tom and Macy laugh)

Macy:He's riddled with bullets.

Toby:Yeah, and they were actually looking on the wrong side of his chest too. The bullet was found on the left side of his chest, the opposite side to where the doctor had been looking. So that was part of the issue as well.

Macy:Wow.

Toby:If you wanted to know what happened to the would-be assassin too: sentenced to death by hanging the following year. Tom, I know you've been trying to get morbid. So there's your morbid—

SFX:(Tom and Macy laugh)

Toby:There's your morbid tidbit.

Tom:Thank you to Dylan Bell for this next question. Phillip delivers a large, dangerous load to a station. Once this has been completed, his vehicle is now even more dangerous than when it had a full load. How? I'll say that again. Phillip delivers a large, dangerous load to a station. Once this has been completed, his vehicle is now even more dangerous than when it had a full load. How?

Toby:First question is, what kind of vehicle could it be?

Macy:Right?

Toby:Train, plane, automobile.

Neal:Yeah.

Toby:Station also. That language feels very precise. You think of train station... but then I thought space station too. Like why is 'station' being used?

Macy:Yeah, but are there astronauts named Dylan? That name feels too young.

SFX:(others laughing)

Tom:Wow!

Toby:That's a great point.

Macy:(giggles softly)

Toby:Sorry, Dylan.

Macy:It's a crazy angle to go, but I feel like the name Dylan rules you out from being old enough to be an astronaut yet.

Tom:To be clear... the question writer was Dylan Bell.

Macy:Oh!

Tom:The name in the question is Phillip.

Macy:Okay.

Toby:(giggles)

Tom:But I'm now going to ask David the producer to check if there have been any astronauts called Dylan. Because I feel like we need to just pull that back slightly.

Toby:(giggles) Yeah.

Macy:Yeah.

Toby:Poor Dylan. Poor Phillip.

Neal:Was it someone delivering prisoners? You know, criminals? I guess that's where my first thought went, but I don't know why an empty bus going back to the prison would be.

Macy:Maybe 'cause prisoners could escape in the bus. They could be hiding in the bus. My mind went to delivering something volatile, and then... But sometimes those empty trucks can be dangerous, if it's a truck, can be... more dangerous to drive 'cause the weight is distributed weird or something?

Neal:What if it's a mom delivering a bunch of angry teenagers somewhere, and she's just so mad, because they were so annoying, in the car driving back that she's developed road rage?

Toby:So was it the— what? The vehicle itself is more dangerous? Not like, the payload is not more dangerous after it's been delivered? It's like the actual... I forget, was the word 'vehicle'?

Tom:I think it would apply to both.

Toby:Oh, so both are more dangerous once it's outside containment in a way.

Tom:Macy, you were starting to think along the right lines there.

Macy:Okay.

Neal:What were you saying, Macy?

SFX:(guests snickering)

Toby:She hates Dylan.

Macy:I, yeah, that's what I was— That was my main point, I think. No, Dylan's great. My point was, I was thinking of something that you would deliver, that would be volatile. And then... if it was like a semi-truck, sometimes those can be more dangerous to drive empty if the wind hits it, and it doesn't have enough weight or something. I don't know. I'm also now thinking maybe we're taking the word 'vehicle' too literally, and... it could be a microscopic... cell, robotic, something can be like a 'vehicle' for something else. It could be nuclear stuff that's really small.

Tom:I think you're getting further away there. You were getting quite close.

Macy:Okay.

Neal:He's like, you're on the right track, and then you're like, we're going microscopic.

Tom:You're right that this is kind of a specialist vehicle. You haven't identified the station correctly yet, though.

Macy:Okay.

Toby:Well, there's like naval stations. That's kind of a weird way of saying it. Train stations, bus stations. Station is kind of a military world word though, right? Is there military involved in any way, or is that further away?

Tom:I mean, this would also apply in the military, but not in this case. There is a very obvious type of station, that you're missing, but if you get it, the entire question basically unveils itself. So I'm not gonna give you that right now.

Macy:A subway station? I guess, did we say that one? I wonder if we're too America pilled. I feel like you guys have better stuff than us.

Tom:Oh, you're really not. You are really not!

Macy:Okay.

Tom:This is a—

Macy:Gas station.

Tom:There we go!

Toby:Oh, gas station!

Neal:Oh.

Macy:Oh.

Toby:Is it just a—

Macy:Is it like an oil truck? What are those called?

Toby:Oh, wait. I know what happens, I think. When the— When you deliver gas to a gas station, the remaining fumes that are left inside the fuel tanker are more dangerous than the stable petrol.

Tom:Yes.

Toby:There you go, Tom. Petrol.

SFX:(Tom and Macy laugh)

Tom:Yes.

Toby:Itself.

Tom:You are absolutely right. Even more than that, at gas stations, the gasoline is stored in an underground tank, usually. As it empties, it fills up with vapour. Some tankers will deliver fuel and take away the vapour. Because that can be... I mean, the word is not 'concentrated', but it can be refined back down into gasoline.

Macy:Wow.

Toby:It's useful?

Tom:So it's useful.

Toby:Interesting.

Tom:But you are right, Toby. A truck filled with gasoline vapour will go up a lot easier than a truck filled with gasoline.

Toby:That makes me... The biggest fear driving on... Again, we're back to road trips, but when you try to pass a semi, or a semi corners you on the side. And if it's like a gas truck, now I'm gonna be even more afraid, 'cause I know it could be filled with, you know, flammable vapor.

Macy:But half the time, it's probably filled with gasoline. So you're fine.

Toby:There you go. The glass half full, glass half empty approach. Tanker half full, tanker half empty.

Tom:Now I also have an update on Dylan astronauts.

Toby:(chuckles)

Tom:There has been one astronaut called Dylan. His name is Dylan Taylor. He is a commercial astronaut. He paid to go up on New Shepard. Or, I assume he paid. But he went up on one of the New Shepard flights. So there has technically been someone on a suborbital space flight called Dylan.

Macy:Okay.

Toby:This is your chance to apologize, Macy, if you want, to all Dylans. (laughs)

Macy:I know, I'm sorry to all Dylans out there. I'm sorry that I ever doubted you Dylans. I think that you all will save the world.

Tom:Macy, it is over to you for your question.

Macy:Alright. This question has been sent in by Alan Wu. Poppy was preparing to fly on holiday aboard an Airbus A321. She noticed a large yellow lever with the letters 'RME' on the handle. Some minutes later, she realized what this meant. What was it? One more time. Poppy was preparing to fly on holiday aboard an Airbus A321. She noticed a large yellow lever with the letters 'RME' on the handle. Some minutes later, she realized what this meant. What was it?

Toby:Neal's my airplane guy. He's pretty good with airplanes.

SFX:(Tom and Macy chuckle)

Toby:So I'm gonna let Neal take the lead here.

Tom:And it's not a Boeing, so we can't make the obvious jokes right now.

SFX:(Toby and Macy chuckle)

Neal:No, no jokes. I don't know, it's... I mean, I think, I mean, the key is figuring out what RME stands for.

Tom:Is there anything special about the A321? If you know your planes, Neal?

Neal:It's literally like a single aisle jet, like a Boeing 737. Just kind of a workhorse regular plane that would fly a domestic route. Maybe, yeah. Not so many international flights. It can go six hours or something, but it's just kind of one of those workhorses. Does that get us any closer? Totally. (chuckles)

Macy:It doesn't get— It's— No. That's not getting you closer, sorry.

Neal:It's just me, yeah. There you— There. You know something about an A321.

Toby:Levers on planes... tend to open things. They open doors, right? And so like they wrench it close. And RME... really mean...

Tom:Remove mefore? No.

SFX:(guests laughing)

Tom:Because I've seen those "remove before flight" tags that...

Toby:Mhm.

Tom:That weirdly, aviation enthusiasts seem to put on their bags, or on their bag, or things like, I've seen "remove before flight" tags used as accessories, and that seems like a stupid thing to put on the bag that you want to fly with you.

Toby:(laughs) Yeah, remove— Wait, it was on a door— Is this— The lever was on a door, right?

Macy:The lever is on a door, Toby. Toby, you were on the right track.

Toby:Yellow lever, door. I also like... Would it signify she's on the wrong flight too?

Tom:(laughs)

Toby:Would she look at this and go, "Oh no, I'm on like a Royal Marine... RME flight"?

Neal:I wish there was something that she did after, besides that she realized what it meant. Was it like she realized what it meant, so she deplaned or... she walked away as fast as possible?

Tom:If she's flying off on holiday though. And a 321 is not a military jet. There's not gonna be the back opening, and a parachute squadron leaping out.

Neal:Something to do with the bathroom?

Macy:No, not the bathroom.

Toby:Is it something to do with the... a d— yeah, a door.

Macy:It is, yes. So this lever is on the door.

Toby:And is it— Does it stand for something? RME?

Tom:It's got to, surely.

Toby:Are we trying to find the abbreviation?

Macy:Interestingly, RME is not an acronym, but word play is involved.

Tom:It's to do with the Army. No?

Toby:Army. Wait, there we go.

Macy:Not the Army, but...

Tom:Hang on, one thing I have heard on flights, one of the things that the cabin crew have to do before departing... is arm the slides. And I'm wondering if RME, arm... if that's the pun or something like that?

Macy:You are very, very, very close with that. That's very much the right track.

Toby:Disarm— Flight attendants, disarm door for crosscheck. That's what I always hear.

Tom:Yeah, that's what you hear on landing, isn't it?

Toby:Wait, but arm.

Neal:Arm?

Toby:If it's not an acronym, and it is wordplay... Army, arm... (giggles) Arm.

Tom:And now some people pronouncing words over and over again.

SFX:(Macy and Toby laugh)

Toby:Arm, arm, arm.

Macy:Arm, arm. But would you say the word 'army' when you're talking about arming a door? No. So what words would go more with that?

Toby:With arming a door?

Macy:Yeah.

Neal:Locked. It's locked. Don't come in.

Tom:Wait, is it just from the point of view of the door? Is it just saying 'arm me'?

SFX:(Macy and Neal snicker)

Macy:No. I like that a lot.

Tom:Agh!

Macy:Oh, I wish that was it. That would be so fun.

Neal:The door is a personality.

Macy:No, that's not it.

Tom:She's close to takeoff at this point. This is... She's leaving on holiday. It's a few minutes later that she realises what it's for. Maybe she realises what it's for, because it's being used at that point.

Toby:I know... the K-pop band, BTS, their fans are called Army.

SFX:(scattered snickering)

Toby:That's— That seems further away.

Macy:So that's not— Yeah, that's way far away.

Toby:Army.

Tom:(groans softly)

Toby:Are we trying to pronounce this in a funny way? Should we go, "Arr me?"

Tom:I mean, that just sounds like a pirate having a breakdown.

Toby:Arrr me.

Tom:Arrr me.

Toby:I am having some sort of breakdown.

Macy:It's not... Yeah, no, it's not there. Let me see. Let me give you another clue. You guys are really close though, but... There are some other letters on the door as well. And the lever can be moved. The lever with this 'RME' on it can be moved.

Toby:There's other letters on the door? Or levers on the door?

Macy:They're letters on the door.

Toby:Letters. RME.

Neal:How many doors are there on a plane?

Tom:Cockpit, cockpit doors.

Neal:Cockpit. The cabin.

Tom:Bathroom doors.

Neal:And the bathroom.

Tom:Cabin, yeah.

Toby:Oh, did— is it— Did they label the wrong door, the wrong thing? Is it a mislabeled situation?

Macy:No.

Toby:Well, it's on a lever too.

Macy:The letters 'RME' are on the lever, and then there are more letters on the door that are not on the lever.

Tom:Oh, oh, hold on. Are these letters being lined up?

Macy:Yes.

Tom:So when you move the lever... I'm gonna call it a lee-ver, I'm British... When you move the thing... R, M, and E are being lined up with some other letters to show something.

Macy:Correct. You are right there.

Tom:Okay.

Neal:It completes a word.

Macy:It completes a word, yes. They're lowered into place, and it completes this word. And you guys were right.

Toby:Oh. It's 'arm' and 'me'. It's like...

Tom:No—!

Macy:No, so we—

Tom:It's just 'armed'. It's just 'armed'.

Macy:It's 'armed'.

Tom:It's just the word 'armed'.

Macy:Yes, Tom, you got it.

Tom:There's an A and a D, and you know the door is armed because you've moved the letters into place to say it.

Macy:(giggles) Correct.

Tom:(groans)

SFX:(guests giggling)

Macy:You guys were so close for so long. I was like, surely they're right there.

Neal:Tom got the breakthrough.

Tom:(laughs)

Macy:Tom nailed that.

Tom:Surely, surely a better way to do that would be to have 'dis' on the lever – the lee-ver – and then—

Macy:Right.

Tom:And then move that out the— Anyway, yeah. Okay, fine.

Macy:Yeah, because I'm looking at the picture of it, and the word 'disarmed' is just above it that's signaled a completely different way. It looks like there's a color change. So that seems like a crazy way to signal them.

Toby:I got way down the pirate route of "Arrr me!" Which is just not how you talk. Unless you sail the high seas.

Tom:Our next question has been sent in by Addy. On 18th of May 1980, it reached 66 degrees Fahrenheit in the state of Washington. Why did the road maintenance crew have to put the snow plow attachment on their trucks? On 18th May 1980, it reached 66 degrees Fahrenheit in the state of Washington. Why did the road maintenance crew have to put the snow plow attachment on their trucks?

Neal:So it's not a snow plow. It's the snow plow attachment.

Macy:Well, I think it's not a snow plow and that it's not being used for snow. But it's the snow plow. 'Cause they're regular trucks. You just put that on the front.

Toby:I have a relatively good idea about it, and I don't know if this is— Well, I don't know. I'm just gonna start saying what I'm thinking. Because I might be off.

Tom:(laughs)

Toby:But I think... 66 degrees... First of all, thank you for making it Fahrenheit, not Celsius, for us.

Tom:(laughs) It's an American question, you know. It's a light spring day, let's say.

Macy:Mhm.

Toby:It feels like that is... warm enough that it would cause some sort of bloom to happen prematurely, or some sort of cicada or bug to be, you know, come out earlier than expected. And it just covers the roads to such an extent that you have to snow plow either the dead bugs or the dead flowers or whatever it caused to happen prematurely off the roads.

Macy:What month did you say it was?

Tom:May.

Macy:May. So then I don't think that May would be super unseasonable. I— My mind went to when kids will do that prank where they put dish soap in a fountain, and then it's like foam everywhere, that you would have to clear that out.

Tom:Somewhere on the internet, there is footage of someone doing that to a log flume ride. At a theme park.

Toby:Oh my lord.

Tom:Yeah.

Macy:(giggles) That's awesome.

Toby:That is...

Macy:Sorry, it's not awesome. We shouldn't destroy log flume rides. That's not fun.

Neal:My initial thought was they are not even using the snow plow. They have to, for some reason, get it off the floor of their shop, and cr— make it— elevate it somehow to get it off the... to get it off the floor of the shop because the metal could not be against the hotter pavement. I don't know. That's my... That's wrong.

Toby:That's very lateral thinking right there.

Macy:That was very lateral thinking.

Neal:What podcast are we on?

Toby:It feels like the wrong track. It feels like the wrong track, but yeah.

Tom:Toby, I think of everyone here, you're closest. It— You're right. It was something like that. But 'bloom' is definitely not the right word for this.

Toby:Is it— What's the opposite of bloom? Death?

Macy:Yeah.

Toby:A lot of things died. Animals.

Macy:So cicadas feels... yeah, bugs or animals. Maybe like a— oh! There are some parts of this country, where there are lizard or salamanders that all come out at once.

Tom:You are right that the geography matters. This is Washington. 18th of May 1980.

Toby:Oh? Well, why is the temperature though? I know in Washington, salmon cross roads sometimes when they're swimming upstream.

Neal:Oh, was it the... explosion of the volcano?

Toby:Oh, that.

Macy:Oh my god!

Tom:Yes, it was, Neal.

Toby:Mount St. Helens.

Tom:Yes, absolutely right. And that's why I mentioned the date a couple times. And also why I said that 'bloom', while technically correct...

SFX:(guests giggling)

Tom:was not really the word I was looking for.

Macy:Not correct.

Toby:A plume would be a better word, right?

Tom:Yeah.

Toby:A plume of ash, yeah.

Tom:Neal, talk me through your thinking.

Neal:You said the state mattered, and there's clearly debris on the ground from something. And I just remembered there was a volcano there. So that's where I went. But I give— not— 80% of the share to Toby on this one.

Tom:Yes, when Mount St. Helens erupted, up to five inches of ash was deposited in the area. 1,000 miles of state highways were closed, 5,000 motorists were stranded. And so the Washington State Department of Transportation used their snow plow equipment to clear the roads.

Toby:They just wanted to get it off the ground of that shop.

SFX:(Tom and Toby laugh)

Toby:It's way too hot on that ground. Get it off.

Neal:Alright.

Toby:(laughs)

Neal:I redeemed myself by the end, but that was... yeah, that was way too lateral and not enough depth.

Macy:That's alright.

Neal:Let's just say that.

Tom:Neal, over to you.

Neal:Okay, cool. This was sent in by Amaury. Ali is lying on a bed, patiently waiting for his turn. He notices that the clock on the wall behaves in an unexpected way. The second hand counts in 12 bursts of 5 seconds, instead of 60 ticks, every minute. Where are you, and why does the clock behave like this? Ali is lying on a bed, patiently waiting for his turn. He notices that the clock on the wall behaves in an unexpected way. The second hand counts in 12 bursts of 5 seconds, instead of 60 ticks, every minute. Where is he, and why does the clock behave like that?

Macy:Lying on a bed feels hospital.

Toby:Does the bed have metal springs?

SFX:(group laughing)

Tom:He's Alexander Graham Bell there with a metal detector.

Neal:It's a party.

Tom:Here is how poisoned my brain has become with hosting so many episodes of Lateral. You said "waiting for his turn." And one of the little notes I wrote down was "seabird?" No, it's not T-E-R-N, Tom. It's not— He's not waiting for a seabird to arrive. He's just waiting for his turn at something.

Neal:Yep. T-U, and then you pull the lever down.

Tom:Yeah, and the R and N come in.

Toby:Yeah. The bed is throwing me for a loop. Because my first thought was like... in athletics, like swimming or something. You look at the clock and... you go and do your set.

Macy:Well, that could be it. There could be a bed in that sense. Maybe it's like a physical therapy area, and then he's up again. Yeah, who is super precise with time, but in a way that's like...

SFX:(snickers)

Macy:It's probably... it matters the time that you start something, not the time that you've finished, since the finishing time won't be as precise, but you could start exactly on the five second mark.

Neal:The clock is precise.

Toby:I see what you're saying though, Macy, yeah.

Neal:Just not down to the second. Over the course of a minute, it is precise. It's just—

Macy:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still, right, yes.

Tom:So it's someone who's precise with time, but not super precise with time.

Toby:Yeah, 'cause it's five second intervals. Five. Well counting do— Five, ten. Right.

Tom:No one logs time of birth or anything like that to the second.

Toby:Why fives? Base 10. Is it something to do with bases? That seems too... It's in base 12. That was the one math subject I never quite got, is how you count base eight or base something.

Neal:And luckily for you... it doesn't have anything to do with this question.

Toby:Thank goodness.

Tom:Oh, there's a whole proposal for duodecimal time and counting.

Toby:Right. Right.

Tom:It makes a lot of sense. Just doesn't work quite as well with your 10 fingers.

Macy:To me, I immediately went hospital or military, but I might be confining myself there.

Tom:One of the advantages of duodecimal, of counting in blocks of 12, which is what this is, right, is that you can divide by 2 or 3 or 4 or 6. You can split it a lot easier. The maths is so much more simple. It just doesn't work in fives. So are they tracking something that happens... over a course of time that needs to be divided that way?

Neal:They are tracking something that is usually multiplied by two. That's something, yeah. It's typically multiplied to get a broader picture of something. What's interesting is this type of... Try to figure out what this type of thing that they're trying to measure, why it might interfere with seconds.

Macy:It feels like, could it be your heart rate, that maybe, they hold your pulse for 30 seconds, and then they multiply it by two, to get it per minute?

Neal:(nods silently)

Macy:(laughs) Okay, that's...

Tom:Neal is nodding. That doesn't work in audio, but Neal is nodding.

Neal:Mhm. I am nodding.

Macy:Okay.

Neal:I just— I'm asking you to flesh out the answer here.

Macy:Right, right.

Tom:Okay. When you're taking someone's pulse, you want to take it for a certain number of seconds and then multiply it, so you get beats per minute. But why would a clock go in five second blocks instead of just seconds?

Toby:If you figure out the pulses in five seconds, you can just multiply it by 12, and you get your pulse rate per minute, beats per minute.

Neal:Toby, what's your resting heart rate?

Toby:44. Right now, 90.

Macy:You're just giving him a chance to show that off right now?

Tom:Wow, okay!

SFX:(guests laughing)

Toby:90?

Neal:It's a big topic of conversation.

Macy:It is a big topic of conversation.

Toby:So, is it heart rate? are we on the right...

Neal:It is heart rate.

Macy:Okay. But then I guess we need to answer the question, which was, where are you?

Neal:Yes, where are you? Where is he?

Macy:And it's more specific than the hospital? Is it a blood donation center?

Neal:It's a hospital.

Macy:Okay.

Neal:He's in the bed waiting his term and... Waiting his turn. U-R-N. And so, so let's just figure out why the clock is behaving in five second increments.

Tom:Because it's easier if you are taking a pulse... to not have to track exactly 30 seconds? Well, was it you, Toby said, you take your pulse in 30 seconds and double it, right?

Toby:That's one way, but if you did it in five seconds, you could just multiply it by 12.

Tom:Right, but—

Toby:If it beats twice, yeah.

Tom:But if you are taking 30 seconds, it's so much easier to just look up, wait up to five seconds for the clock to tick, and then just wait until it does a big tick exactly opposite. This is just a—

Macy:Right.

Tom:This is just a triage room or something like that. They're just taking a load of pulse rates, and that's easier for the doctors?

Neal:So you're 80% of the way there. But we're still not quite exactly answering the question of why does the clock behave this way?

Toby:Well, maybe it is like most people's heart rates are in the... Well, I don't actually know what most people—

Tom:They're not 44 if you're in the hospital waiting for— If there's something wrong, it is gonna be going higher than that.

Macy:As— Speaking as a normal heart rate haver, which I think my average resting is like 75... I think that it's just too difficult to count. It'sa lot of margin for error if you're just trying to count to 75 and keep track, rather than counting by a different increment and then multiplying up to get 60 seconds.

Tom:And it probably means you don't have to keep two numbers in your head at the same time?

Macy:That could be true, yeah.

Neal:So you're super close. I think we can get to the exact precise answer given here, which is that a resting heart rate is typically between 60-100 beats per minute. And if it's 60, that lines up almost perfectly with the seconds in a clock. And oftentimes it's hard to measure both when you're hearing the ticking of a clock for a single second.

Tom:Ohh.

Neal:And that lines up maybe somewhat irregularly, like just a little offbeat with someone's pulse or their heart beating. And that's why some hospitals have these irregular clocks that, you know, count— that only move the hand of the clock every five seconds.

Toby:It is sometimes I get bored on runs, and I try to manually count my heart rate. And it's hard! You're running. I'm trying to count. I'm also trying to look at my watch. So that would make it easier. I don't know if anyone else in the world tries to self-measure their own pulse, but...

Macy:That's insane. While you're running? While I'm running, I'm just thinking about running and stop running. So... And I'm listening to Lateral with Tom Scott, and you should too.

Tom:(chuckles) We do have time for a shiny bonus question. Thank you to Peter Scandrett for sending this one in. Which two-letter word appears under Jack Lemmon's name on his headstone? I'll say that again. Which two-letter word appears under Jack Lemmon's name on his headstone?

Macy:Jack Lemmon.

Tom:I am worried that I'm... I'm asking this to three people younger than I am. And Jack Lemmon is perhaps an old reference for me.

Toby:Does Neal— Do you know who Jack Lemmon is?

Neal:I don't know who Jack Lemmon is.

Tom:Alright, well I can give you the first clue, which is that Jack Lemmon is a very famous actor.

Macy:Ooh.

Toby:Well, his last name is Lemmon.

Macy:(cracks up) Good deduction.

Toby:So I'm wondering if it's a funny joke. Like, JL.

Tom:It is a joke, yes.

Macy:Okay.

Toby:Oh, so if life... It's like if life gives you lemons.

Tom:But it's a two-letter word though.

Macy:Well, it'll be hard if it's a reference to one of his specific... movies or something. If it was a joke from something he's famous for, that we don't really know.

Toby:That doesn't feel laterally though. We can get there without knowing who Jack Lemmon is.

Tom:You can get there.

Toby:Well, you need to know he's an actor for this.

Macy:Okay. So we have that.

Toby:I'm going through Scrabble dictionary right now. All the two letter words.

Macy:It's a real word? It's not...

Tom:It's a real word. I wouldn't even call this a Scrabble obscure word. You know this word!

Neal:What are things associated with acting? I mean, I'm thinking Oscars. The Hollywood Sign.

Macy:Well, or he could be a theater actor.

Toby:Mm.

Tom:He was in Some Like it Hot with Marilyn Monroe, among many other films. So that's the kind of era we're talking about here.

Toby:Jack!

Macy:So then I'm a fan.

Tom:You said the word just now. Something like that, yeah.

Macy:Jack Lemmon is? Jack Lemmon...

Toby:What did I say?

Neal:Jack Lemmon...

Toby:He, is, no. Jack Lemmon, no?

Tom:Remember it's on his gravestone. So like, picture what you're seeing here.

Neal:Does it play off his name in any way?

Tom:Nope. It plays off the situation though.

Neal:In which he is not alive.

Tom:Mm.

Macy:Right.

Neal:That's the situation.

Tom:What I love is how many times you are just literally saying—

Toby:In!

Tom:There we go!

Toby:In, in.

Tom:Yes.

Toby:In.

Tom:Jack Lemmon in... the grave you see below, yes. It is—

Macy:Oh, that's fun 'cause he's an actor.

Neal:Oh, that is...

Tom:Yes, it is a title screen from a movie like from Old Hollywood, where you would just see "Jack Lemmon in..."

Macy:Oh, got it, got it, got it.

Tom:And then underneath is the grave of Jack Lemmon.

Macy:That's fun.

Neal:That's very clever.

Toby:How many times? That must be a Lateral record for most amount of times saying the answer without having any idea what we were saying.

Tom:Which brings me to the question from the very start of the show. Thank you to anonymous for sending this in. On Roblox, why are there a surprisingly large number of games with sea creatures in the title? Anyone want to take a quick shot at that before I tell the audience?

Toby:The only thing I know about Roblox is it's box and cubes. And sea creatures are the letter C, creature after it. Not sea creatures. 'Cause they're made out of cubes.

Tom:Good lateral thinking. In this case it's things like shrimp or fish or shark.

Neal:Because... there is a Finding Nemo sponsorship.

Toby:Neal goes right to capitalism.

Tom:Who's making the games on Roblox?

Toby:Children.

Neal:Children are making games.

Macy:Yeah.

Toby:And they love... They got really into Finding Nemo.

Tom:They got really into something.

Toby:They got really into... the ocean.

SFX:(guests snickering)

Tom:No. Couple years ago, there was a media property that really wasn't aimed at them. And—

Neal:Baby Shark? Oh, Sharknado.

Toby:No. Wait. Baby Shark was a good guess though.

Tom:It was a great guess, but I think that's too young. No, this was something that was— that really, they shouldn't have been watching.

Neal:What was an adult thing about the ocean? Titanic? Jaws?

Toby:A movie or show that came out, that has a lot of sea creatures in it?

Tom:No, no, just one particular sea creature is missing from this list. There's a lot of shrimps, a lot of fishes, a lot of sharks.

Macy:The Loch Ness Monster.

Tom:Kids didn't get obsessed with that though.

Macy:An octopus? My Octopus Teacher.

Toby:My Octopus Teacher?

Tom:Uhm...

Toby:Or SpongeBob.

Tom:Macy, you are closer. It's not the right property, but it's pretty close to the—

Macy:Squid Games!

Tom:Keep going, yes!

Macy:Okay.

Tom:So why are there a surprisingly large number of games with other sea creatures in the title?

Macy:Because it's like Squid Games. It's like Lobster Games. It's like... Do they just do puns on Squid Games? With different other— with different animals?

Tom:What are the kids trying to do?

Macy:Get around copyright of Squid Games.

Tom:That's it, Macy. They're trying to avoid copyright and trademark. The developers—

Macy:These kids are smart.

Tom:The children here are trying to copy Squid Game but don't want to get in legal trouble. And so there are many games on Roblox that are Shrimp Game, Fish Game, Shark Game, among many others. Congratulations on getting through your first Lateral episode. Where can people find you? What are you putting out? We will start with Neal.

Neal:Yeah, so Toby and I host a podcast every single weekday morning called Morning Brew Daily, which you can find on Spotify, Apple, or YouTube, or anywhere else you get your podcasts. If you wanna hear the— that sharp problem solving duo, you can, every morning. It comes out around 7 am Eastern Standard Time.

Tom:Toby, tell me about the newsletter.

Toby:Oh, the newsletter is great. It's kind of like a companion to the podcast. Comes out every single morning in your inbox at 5 am. Biggest business news stories you need to know, with some fun trivia at the end as well. And that's edited by Neal.

Tom:And Macy, tell me about the YouTube stuff.

Macy:I make YouTube videos at Morning Brew, where I try different jobs, to talk about the industry around those jobs. Most recently, I became a plumber. Right now, I am learning magic for a magic show I have in a few days, and it's high stakes. So it's really fun stuff.

Tom:And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. The episodes are in video every week on Spotify, and we are at @lateralcast basically everywhere. Thank you very much to Macy Gilliam.

Macy:Thank you so much!

Tom:Toby Howell.

Toby:Thank you. We must— nailed it.

Tom:And Neal Freyman.

Neal:Thank you. My brain hurts.

Tom:And— (cracks up)

Macy:(snickers)

Tom:I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.