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Episode 166: A severed sleeve
12th December, 2025 • Caroline Roper, Ella Hubber and Tom Lum face questions about restaurant reportage, banned bulbs and opportunistic operations.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom Scott:
On the 8th of May 2025, which US fast food company wrote a post on X that contained just the company's name spelt out? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Man:
Lateral is filmed before a live studio audience.
Tom Scott:
Honey, have you seen where I put my left shoe?
SFX:
(laugh track)
Caroline:
(sighs) Isn't it right next to your right shoe?
Tom Scott:
Oh, yeah! There it is! Yeah.
SFX:
(laugh track)
Caroline:
(sighs) Did you remember to turn off the oven this time? I'm not cleaning up another marshmallow lasagna explosion.
Tom Scott:
Ah, that was a right old pickle.
Tom Lum:
Did somebody say pickles?
SFX:
(canned audience cheering and applauding)
Ella:
You lot, you're not in bed yet? I'm headin' out. Try not to miss me too much while I'm thriving.
Caroline:
(scoffs) Well, you're not going out dressed like that, young lady. Your outfit is missing something, like fabric.
SFX:
(laugh track)
Tom Lum:
What's that look? You look like you're about to headline a Duran Duran revival tour.
Ella:
It's called fashion. Not like you'd know.
SFX:
(laugh track)
Tom Scott:
Hey, hey, come on, kids. Don't—Don't be like that. Friday is Family Podcast Night, just like the Founding Fathers intended.
Caroline:
Honey, I'm not sure the Founding Fathers knew what a podcast was.
Tom Lum:
They would have loved them! Franklin totally had Theo Von energy.
SFX:
(laugh track)
Caroline:
Kids, kids, let's all sit together in the podcast nook. Because the family that podcasts together stays together.
SFX:
(audience awws, applauds)
Tom Lum:
I love you, Mom.
Ella:
I love you, too, I guess.
Caroline:
Okay, look smart. Your father's about to start the show.
Tom Scott:
Joining me today are three people that have more bounce than a 1980s sitcom theme song. It's the gang from Let's Learn Everything!
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
Hello.
Tom Lum:
It's so nice to— And it brings a tear to my eye, thinking about all the families – the nuclear families sitting around listening to this podcast.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
That must've been so uncanny for them.
Caroline:
White picket fence, podcast nook.
Tom Scott:
I got that script through from Producer David. I was like, "That's a lot to ask. That's a lot to ask of our returning guests there."
Tom Lum:
And we have a lot to answer.
Tom Scott:
You—I'm assuming that behind the scenes, you all have character names and biographies and everything.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Ella:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Absolutely, yeah.
Tom Scott:
Well, your actual names here are not the characters. Please welcome Caroline Roper. Welcome back to the show.
Caroline:
Thank you so much for having us! This is exciting.
Tom Scott:
Last time, we did all gang up on you in a somewhat sitcom-like fashion.
Caroline:
Yeah, I have only just stopped crying about that going on, so—
SFX:
(both Toms and Caroline laugh)
Tom Scott:
And I've only just stopped feeling guilty about it. So there's that.
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Lum:
It was Caroline had— was the only one who didn't know the answer, so we decided to try if just they answered 1-v-1.
Caroline:
I have never been so stressed in my life. Oh, my goodness! I used to have stress dreams about being in my GCSE exams again as an adult. Now it's gonna be this – just me answering it, yeah.
Tom Lum:
That does actually sound like a nightmare I would have. It's a Lateral recording, and I don't know the answer!
Tom Scott:
Well, hopefully this will be more like a dream today. Also joining us are— I always worry saying, like, the "second third" of Let's Learn— It implies a hierarchy. But today the second third of Let's Learn Everything, Ella Hubber.
Ella:
Hello.
Caroline:
Ella would love that you ranked her higher than Tom, actually.
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Ella:
Disappoint— I should be the— I am the first third, but you don't know that, so—
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Tom Scott:
Alphabetically, the second third of Let's Learn Everything, Ella Hubber.
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh)
Ella:
Fine. I'll allow it.
Tom Scott:
You should plug the podcast for the folks who've tuned in for this as their first show
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh)
Tom Scott:
and just—just got that fever dream nightmare of an introduction.
Ella:
Yeah, you're in for a wild ride, if this is your first one. We are the co-hosts of Let's Learn Everything – the show where we learn anything and everything interesting. We cover a science topic and we cover a miscellaneous topic.
Tom Scott:
And finally, uh, the... This is why people say, "Last but not least"! (laughs) The last third of Let's Learn Everything, Tom Lum!
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
Did somebody say pickles?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
What I love is the audience will have heard the cheering and the whooping and the applause sound effects there.
Tom Lum:
And now this version? (whinnies)
Tom Scott:
We just had to sit for five seconds in silence there.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
Ahhh. Used to it.
Tom Scott:
What sort of stuff have you been learning lately, Tom?
Tom Lum:
We have learned about such science topics like international space law, what's the most boring element, as well as miscellaneous topics like the nuances and the negatives of true crime, as well as... things like trading card art.
Tom Scott:
Well, very best of luck for all three of you. I don't think any of those subjects come up today, but we do have a little longer than 22 minutes to resolve the story lines with a heartwarming moral. Just don't touch that dial as we move to question one. Thank you to Stijn for this question. In 2009, the European Union began to outlaw the sale of lights with a low energy efficiency rating. How did two German entrepreneurs manage to legally sell 4,000 bulbs that would normally violate this ban? I'll say that again. In 2009, the European Union began to outlaw the sale of lights with a low energy efficiency rating. How did two German entrepreneurs manage to legally sell 4,000 bulbs that would normally violate this ban?
Tom Lum:
They're not used for lighting. Maybe they're in something else.
Caroline:
That's fun.
Tom Lum:
They're used as packing peanuts.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ella:
I love to reach into my packages and get a handful of glass.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Caroline:
My brain goes to... So in a lot of lighting design, more efficient light bulbs actually produce more lighting which can cause light pollution and stuff like that, whereas older inefficient lighting often that was quite orange-y can sometimes be better for light pollution and wildlife and stuff like that so is it—
Tom Lum:
We did a topic on light pollution.
SFX:
(both Toms laugh)
Caroline:
It's also sadly— So much of my job is talking about efficient lighting these days. (laughs)
Tom Lum:
Oh yeah, Caroline. Do we have any info on here, any inside knowledge that we should know about?
Caroline:
I wish. (laughs)
Tom Scott:
I once spent a long time trying to get the right colour balance in my flat, and I'd replaced the bulb with a new energy-efficient one. And, nope. It's the wrong colour. I ended up buying theatrical lighting gel and lining the lampshade with it. Just like, "I've gotta get that right."
Ella:
If anyone was gonna say, "I spent a long time trying to get the colour balance—"
Tom Scott:
Getting the colour temperature right, yes. Yeah.
Ella:
It's you.
Tom Lum:
Yeah. Not even on camera. Just for your life. I guess that's important for your life.
Tom Scott:
That's fair.
Ella:
Are low-efficiency bulbs that— they get hotter quicker, so they sold them for like heating lamps or something for reptiles.
Caroline:
Oh. (gasps)
Tom Lum:
That was gonna be my thought. I was just gonna say also, Tom, to be loved is to be known.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Yes, more or less. The— Reptiles isn't the right thing, though.
Caroline:
But the heating side is.
Tom Lum:
I'm trying to think, are these, like— I was, like, maybe, like, a tanning booth? Maybe these are like...
Ella:
Well then that needs to be UV. I don't think the heat is the thing that is important there.
Caroline:
I don't think you want to be getting too hot in a tanning booth.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, no. I don't think that's actually— yeah. "Wait, what? Oh, no!" (wheezes)
Caroline:
(guffaws) Yeah.
Tom Scott:
It's much simpler than that. You added a thing that didn't need to be there.
Ella:
They were just selling them as heating.
Tom Scott:
They were just selling them as mini heaters, yes.
Caroline:
Wow!
Ella:
(cracks up)
Caroline:
That's— Wow!
Tom Lum:
Huh.
Tom Scott:
Yep.
Caroline:
And they called themselves entrepreneurs after that? (laughs)
Tom Scott:
Well, they... sort of call themselves artists as well. It was sparking discussion about the ban. But they did still—
Tom Lum:
That's better.
Tom Scott:
They did still sell 4,000 bulbs as heaters to the folks who really did not want to switch to energy efficiency.
Caroline:
Wow! Boo!
Tom Lum:
As, like, a pastiche on it. As, like, a joke to poke fun at, like, loopholes, I would get that, but—
Caroline:
I do enjoy that, yeah.
Tom Scott:
But you don't actually need to sell 4,000 75- and 100-watt light bulbs in order to do that, yes.
SFX:
(Caroline and Tom Lum laugh)
Tom Scott:
You can still buy those as heaters. There are still heat bulbs you can buy for bathrooms and things like that if you wanna warm the place up, but that is deliberately sold with it.
Ella:
That seems massively inefficient to heat up anywhere.
Tom Scott:
Yes.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Scott:
Yes, the EU banned the sale of bulbs over 60 watts. Siegfried Rotthäuser and his brother-in-law sold 75- and 100-watt incandescent bulbs as small heating elements under the brand name 'Heatball'.
Tom Lum:
(chortles)
Caroline:
(groans)
Ella:
Great.
Caroline:
Wow.
Tom Scott:
But they did say that a portion of the revenue went to a rain forest protection initiative.
Caroline:
Oh, that just makes it all okay, then!
Tom Lum:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom Scott:
Caroline, we're gonna go over to you for the next question, please.
Caroline:
This question has been sent in by Simon. In 2007, a concerned mother bought 80,000 cans from Just for Kicks Inc. and arranged to have them shipped to the Middle East. What was it for? One more time. In 2007, a concerned mother bought 80,000 cans from Just for Kicks Inc. and arranged for them to be shipped to the Middle East. What was it for?
Ella:
I'm worried about giving my just... off the top of my head answer because there have been— in the last episode,
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Ella:
we were so good, and we're not gonna get invited back if I'm just— if I'm just consistently this good, so—
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Ella:
And it's not— and it's not 'cause I don't— and it's not 'cause I don't have any ideas this time or anything.
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Tom Scott:
I was gonna say something that I've said to a few folks on here. If you do that, you are setting yourself up as the villain.
Ella:
I love being the villain, Tom! You know it!
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Scott:
Natural wrestling heel.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ella:
I actually have nothing.
Tom Lum:
That's our secret. We—We're all the heel.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
So, Just for Kicks, right? And you said, "cans"?
Caroline:
I did.
Tom Lum:
Am I wrong to think that these are like... like a snake in a can, like, prank toys?
Caroline:
You know, not snake in a can, but you're along the right lines.
Tom Scott:
I just got hooked on the phrase, "kick the can". Like, "kick the can down the road", and got "kicks" and "can" confused. I had a thought the kicks might be, like, a novelty gag thing. Like a... a... a merchandise company.
Tom Lum:
Yeah. How many, again?
Caroline:
80,000.
Tom Lum:
Good lord. What is the... I'm trying to think if— if it is— is the region of the world just relevant to where this person was living, where they had family? Is there a specific... country or event or time of year?
Tom Scott:
(chuckles)
Caroline:
So, this person... Great questions, Tom.
Tom Lum:
Or does this actually have to do with any of the nuances of any geopolitical issues in that area?
Tom Scott:
Okay. This is a concerned mother in 2007.
Caroline:
Uh-huh.
Tom Scott:
Sending something to the Middle East.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Like, Tom, you talked about nuance as in a geopolitical situation. Is she sending these to her kid who is a soldier in the Middle East? Like, they're sending stuff, like, US Army?
Caroline:
Yeah. Yeah, you're spot on. This is a concerned mother sending something to her son that is a soldier in the Middle East.
Ella:
In Iraq or Afghanistan.
Caroline:
Yeah, in Iraq.
Ella:
Iraq, okay.
Tom Scott:
The US military has enough money to buy a lot of stuff. What does a concerned mother need to send 80,000 of?
Ella:
80,000 novelty snakes to use as—in—
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ella:
as weapons, obviously.
Tom Scott:
I know there is a big US forces post office thing, and the thing that is stuck in my head was some... deli in New York City. And the phrase that has apparently been stuck in my head since I saw it on a wall or a poster or something like that was, "Send a salami to your boy in the Army."
SFX:
(guests wheeze in turn)
Tom Scott:
They had a system where folks could just pay to ship their product to— as like a morale booster to your kids off in the Army.
Caroline:
Wow!
Tom Scott:
This is a thing that America does! Like, America—
Tom Lum:
Yeah, that sounds right.
Tom Scott:
America has a lot about the military that other countries perhaps do not.
Tom Lum:
Caroline, is this like a... Is this, like, a light-hearted, goofy, silly thing that she was trying to do? Is this a very practical thing? Is this a—
Caroline:
This is very practical. Very useful.
Tom Lum:
Were they used to... and this is now going full-bore as sort of a... what could possibly, like— is this— were they, like, used to... trigger... IEDs or mines? You throw them onto somewhere, and then it, like— I don't know.
Caroline:
It's not for triggering something like that, but you're kind of— you're really along the right lines with that thought process.
Tom Scott:
Did she also send 120,000 metres of string?
Ella:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
Ohhh! Can telephones!
Caroline:
(guffaws)
Tom Scott:
If that's right, I'm gonna walk off this podcast.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ella:
Tell him it's right!
Caroline:
No, it's not right.
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom Lum:
Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick! He said it! He said it!
Tom Scott:
Here's the thing. The minute those words came out my mind, I was like, "I've just set myself up for a punchline there, haven't I?"
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Ella:
(laughs heartily)
Caroline:
I didn't take it. Oh! Honestly.
Ella:
Ah, okay. Not that, then. Beans.
Caroline:
(guffaws) Beans!
Tom Lum:
Yeah, so if the product I'm assuming, like, isn't food, right, in the cans?
Caroline:
Tom, you— you said, like, "snake coming out of a can".
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Caroline:
And that wasn't right, but think about other products that a company like this might sell, that comes in a can.
Ella:
A novelty canned product. Peanuts.
Tom Lum:
Novelty can stuff. Canned bread. Canned...
Ella:
It's not food.
Tom Lum:
But yeah.
Caroline:
It's not a food item, no.
Tom Scott:
And what might they be running out of? If they— What is the US military not able to supply enough of, for soldiers?
Caroline:
Or might not be allowed... or might not be able to supply for one reason or another. Think about it. This is a— a novelty item, essentially.
Tom Lum:
Whoopie cushions.
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline wheeze)
Caroline:
Canned whoopie cushions.
Tom Lum:
Sunglasses? Gosh!
Ella:
Fart smell.
Caroline:
Oh, Ella, you're getting so much closer.
Tom Lum:
Candles? Candles?
Caroline:
The thing— the difference between Ella's and all the other ones was that the thing that Ella mentioned is sort of aerosol-based.
Tom Scott:
Oh.
Tom Lum:
Is it, like, joke air? Like, air in a can from, like, a region that's like—
Caroline:
No, but you're so close.
Ella:
Oh, silly string.
Caroline:
Yes! Yes!
Tom Scott:
Oh my god! I knew this!
Caroline:
(laughs heartily) Oh, no!
Tom Lum:
Wait, what?
Ella:
Okay?
Tom Scott:
I've seen this story! It's to find tripwires!
Caroline:
That's exactly what it is. Yep, well done.
Tom Lum:
What?
Tom Scott:
As you're walking into somewhere, if there's a tripwire that'll set off an IED or something like that, you want to be able to discover it but not set it off. And silly string is perfect for that. You shoot that out before you, and it will land on the tripwire but hopefully not set it off.
Caroline:
Yeah, that's exactly it. So US soldiers essentially discovered this use for silly string where – as Tom said – they would shoot it out of the can, and if it fell to the floor, there were no tripwires. It was fine, but if it sort of hovered in the air, that meant that it had caught on a tripwire, and that a soldier shouldn't go that way.
Tom Lum:
Wow, and it wouldn't even trigger it. It would just sit on top. That's wild.
Caroline:
Because this was a party gimmick item, essentially, when this was discovered, the US Army couldn't supply it to soldiers, so—
Tom Lum:
I could understand why they wouldn't.
Caroline:
Right? Yeah! Yeah!
Tom Scott:
Oh, it's not just that it's a party gimmick. It's that there's the whole US military complex of getting a supplier that can tick all the boxes and make sure they can—
Caroline:
Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Yeah, they've gotta fit 300 military regulations. No novelty company's gonna do that.
Caroline:
Mhm. But a concerned mother absolutely would.
Tom Lum:
Or the US military's secret clown force.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
Writing that— and that's the movie. "Baby Clown Force".
Tom Scott:
There's gonna be some big US military-industrial complex supplier that is now taking orders for $50 cans of tripwire detection... coagulant or something.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, yeah. Lockheed Martin silly string.
Tom Scott:
Yeah, right? That would actually— And it will fit every specification that they have required for it.
Caroline:
(laughs) So yeah, this was Marcelle Shriver – or Marcelle "Shrivver" – learned this information from her son. She then started this campaign to send these 80,000 cans over to Iraq. The shipment took months to organise because of all of the specialised commercial shipping that was required to get these cans over there. But— And especially a shipping company that was permitted to carry aerosol products as well.
Tom Lum:
Mm.
Caroline:
So, yeah.
Tom Scott:
Thank you to an anonymous listener for this question. Emperor Ai of the Han Dynasty once woke up and cut off the sleeve of his own robe. Why? I'll say that again. Emperor Ai of the Han Dynasty once woke up and cut off the sleeve of his own robe. Why?
Caroline:
You know... sometimes you just get a question, and it's like, "Wow, my brain's gone to so many places that I don't quite know where to start with this one." Huh!
Tom Lum:
You never— It's like you wake up and you just toss the sheets out 'cause it's too hot. Similarly.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
My first thought is, like, is this something someone would do today, or does it— is this something about the time period?
Caroline:
It was real itchy, and he was just like, "Nah, I can't do it anymore."
Tom Lum:
Yeah, and, like, clearly it's—it's— it's, you know, a specific name mention, but I don't know if that's how relevant that is or if... Cutting off a sleeve. Is this anything symbolic that we would have to know about?
Tom Scott:
No, my first note here is, you don't need any knowledge of Chinese history for this.
Caroline:
Huh, okay.
Ella:
Okay, so why— why have it be Emperor Ai of the Han Dynasty, then, if we don't need to know anything about Chinese— there has to be something in the names, then, I would have to assume. (snickers)
Caroline:
Was the sleeve valuable or made of valuable material or something like that?
Tom Lum:
I believe this— 'Cause if this is the Han Dynasty, then it must have been when... the army was retreating, and so as a result, he had to cut off his sleeves because his armies were in his sleevies.
Tom Scott:
Oh!
Ella:
(wheezes loudly) (claps)
Tom Scott:
I didn't see the bit coming.
Ella:
That was—
Tom Scott:
I didn't see it.
Ella:
So good!
Tom Lum:
Thank you. Thank you.
Ella:
I'm so mad! That was so good.
Caroline:
Wow!
Tom Lum:
Oh, they're throwing flowers! They're throwing flowers!
Tom Scott:
Sold it perfectly.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ella:
I knew the bit was coming, but the dad joke really hit me.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
Alright, this next question comes from anon—
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
Yeah, so, honestly, bugs was my first thought. Was that Caroline that mentioned that? In terms of, like... You know, you have bed bugs or something like that, you might want to do that.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
And then heat was my other thing, right? Like, if it's just— just too hot.
Ella:
Is the name important? Emperor—
Tom Scott:
No, the name's not important.
Ella:
(scoffs)
Tom Scott:
It's just that this is— This has become something of a legend.
Ella:
Oh, okay.
Caroline:
Ooh!
Tom Scott:
It's one of those stories that could be apocryphal but is so well-known that it's associated with him.
Ella:
He woke up and cut off his sleeve. I feel like I've heard this before.
Caroline:
He was like, "You know what would be great? A three-quarter-length sleeve. Let's go and do that."
SFX:
(both Toms laugh)
Caroline:
And that was— And now Tom Lum is fash— is demonstrating on beautifully.
Tom Lum:
For mobility, is another thing. To show off your... you've been working out, is another reason. Is it both sleeves? Is it one sleeve? Is that relevant?
Tom Scott:
"The sleeve of his own robe". So, one sleeve.
Tom Lum:
I'm trying to think if this is, you know, to do with an emperor, maybe there's something about, like... And my brain goes to, like, I dunno, like... an assassination attempt or a coup. Maybe he was doing it to prove something, right? It's like the same way you might, like... I don't know, try to trick someone to be like, "Oh, actually, I only have one sleeve, and that's how you know it's me," or something like that.
Caroline:
Is this like the origin story of where something came from? I'm thinking, like—
Tom Lum:
Of tank tops.
Caroline:
(laughs) Yeah!
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Caroline:
Is he cutting off his sleeve to mark a retreat, and that's how we get, like, the white flag from or something like that.
Tom Lum:
Oh!
Tom Scott:
There is a phrase that comes from this, but it's not one that's well known outside of China.
Tom Lum:
That's a great shout, Caroline, that it's like, it's not about the al— it's like the use of the portion that was cut off. Is that the trick here, Tom?
Tom Scott:
No. No, it's not.
Tom Lum:
Okay, okay.
Tom Scott:
If he'd have woken up later, he might not have had to do this.
Tom Lum:
Getting a sun tan.
Tom Scott:
'Cause remember, he once woke up and cut off the sleeve of his own robe.
Tom Lum:
So he woke up in the middle of the night, presumably? Or earlier than normal?
Caroline:
Ooh?
Tom Lum:
'Cause you said if he had woken up later, he wouldn't have to have done this.
Caroline:
Yeah, he's just a blindfold or sort of, you know, a sleep mask or something.
Tom Lum:
Yeah! That's good.
Caroline:
On that vein, did he have to burn it for light or something?
Tom Lum:
Well, Tom said that the thing itself wasn't used, unfortunately.
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Ella:
Oh, okay, yeah.
Caroline:
Hmm.
Tom Scott:
And earlier, Tom, you said it was something you could do today. You absolutely could, should you happen to sleep with a knife on your person.
Ella:
Okay, if you happen to sleep with a knife— a knife on your person, you should wake up and cut off your sleeves.
Tom Scott:
Mhm.
Ella:
Your sleeve. The sleeve. The sleeve.
Tom Scott:
One of your sleeves. I'm assuming you've got one or two.
Tom Lum:
Is this like a survival thing? Is this something like you're— if you're camping, you might need to do this, or is this just a... Gosh, you're sleeping, you cut off one sleeve of the arm.
Caroline:
You're sleeping. You wake up. Somebody's come to assassinate you. You stab them. "Oh, no! I got blood on my good sleeve." You cut the sleeve off. Evidence is gone.
Ella:
There you go.
Caroline:
That's the answer.
Tom Scott:
Not that, but you are technically closer.
Caroline:
Yeah!
Ella:
It was an as— an assassin.
Tom Scott:
It was not an assassination attempt. I'll steer you away from that. But you are closer and right to think of what else might be in the scene.
Ella:
I'm so stumped. I've been absolutely useless this turn.
Tom Scott:
Or who else might be in the scene?
Ella:
A lover.
Tom Scott:
Yes.
Tom Lum:
You want to get closer to your partner, and so you—
Ella:
Get further away from them.
Tom Scott:
Get further away from them. Absolutely.
Tom Lum:
Huh? Oh! Is the presumption, like—
Ella:
Oh, they're lying on your sleeve.
Tom Lum:
"Oh, babe, you keep scratching at my sleeve."
Ella:
No, they're lying on your arm or whatever, and so to get away he cut off his sleeve so he could slip out.
Tom Scott:
This is an act of extreme thoughtfulness. This is not slipping away because you want to leave them behind. This is slipping away without waking them up. You are absolutely right, Ella.
Tom Lum:
They're sleeping and they're resting on the—aww!
Ella:
Aww, that's very sweet.
Caroline:
Our brains went to such different places.
Tom Scott:
(laughs) I was like, "Not an assassination attempt, but there is someone else in the room."
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh)
Tom Scott:
You know? There's someone else there. Yes, the Chinese term translated I have here is, "The passion of the cut sleeve". It is someone who cared so much for their lover that rather than wake them up... cut off the sleeve and let them keep sleeping.
Tom Lum:
Very cute. Of course we could never come up with something sweet.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
Of course that stumped us! That was the one!
Tom Scott:
First thought: assassination attempt. Why is there someone in the bedroom with you? Assassination. Absolutely.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
Tom, over to you for your question, please.
Tom Lum:
Rock and roll. This question has been sent in by Amir Sarid. In the US, why does the number of vasectomies performed increase by up to 50% every March, compared to a typical month? I'll say that again. In the US, why does the number of vasectomies performed increase by up to 50% every March, compared to a typical month?
Tom Scott:
I'm out for this one. It's over to Caroline and Ella.
Ella:
Okay, all the... September, October, November... December, January, February, March. So... Sorry, I'm just looking for the nine months from March, a baby being born situation which would be July, I think, which doesn't spring to mind as a particularly important day. If it was nine months from Valentine's Day, then you could be— it could be like, oh, all the kids are being born, and the fathers are like, "I'm done. I need to go and get a vasectomy right now."
Caroline:
You know, Ella, I've not had a single thought since you started talking. I've just been watching you like, "Where does this go?"
Ella:
I think that made sense.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, yeah.
Ella:
But not that.
Tom Lum:
No. (wheezes)
Ella:
No, it's not a— a sudden burst of children.
Caroline:
(laughs uproariously)
Ella:
They get cheaper. There's a— What was it? There's a discount.
Caroline:
Oh!
Ella:
(snickers)
Tom Lum:
No, although maybe they should. But no. It's not something to do on the end of... It's not something to do with that.
Tom Scott:
I only know this one because I know something about American culture. There is a specific reference here that I'm not sure the Brits will get, but I think you can still get close enough to it. I think you can still work this one out.
Ella:
It's in... that song, "We Didn't Light the Fire". It's like—one of the lyrics is like— ♪ Vasectomy in March 50 per— ♪ You know?
Tom Lum:
What?
Ella:
♪ We didn't start the fire ♪ ♪ You get your vasectomy in March ♪ ♪ Da, da, da, da, da ♪ You know, that famous—
Caroline:
Oh, my goodness. Tom Lum looked so shocked for a second there. I was like, "Is that right? Is that correct?"
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
I'm really annoyed. I've just looked up the lyrics to "We Didn't Start the Fire" 'cause I—
Tom Lum:
And it's in there!
Tom Scott:
Well, no. I know most of them, but there isn't a single line that ends in /i:/ that I can rhyme there. There's maybe, "U-2, Syngman Rhee, Payola, and Kennedy."
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
"Chubby Checker, Psycho—"
Tom Lum:
"Chubby Checker, Psycho—"
Tom Scott:
No! No, that doesn't rhyme!
Tom Lum:
Oh, yeah.
Tom Scott:
'Cause this—it's in—
Tom Lum:
Belgians in the Congo.
Tom Scott:
Right. It's an A-B-C-B—
Tom Lum:
I like the song a lot, if you didn't know.
Tom Scott:
There isn't a rhyme in there that I can swap out for "something March vasectomy." It's not in there!
Tom Lum:
Yeah, "Harry Truman, Doris Day, "Red China, Johnnie Ray, South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio."
Tom Scott:
And that's where we have to stop it because of copyright.
Tom Lum:
"Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon—"
Ella:
Stop!
Tom Scott:
Please don't. Please don't.
Caroline:
Stop!
Tom Scott:
Because otherwise we're gonna have a "We Didn't Start the Fire"-off and I think you're just gonna win it.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ella:
Okay, so it's an American reference.
Caroline:
Yeah!
Ella:
For s—oh, oh! Is there, like, a rhyme, like... Something t—
Tom Lum:
(wheezes)
Ella:
Sorry! I can't— (laughs)
Tom Scott:
Wow! As hosting a question goes, immediately bursting out laughing at someone's suggestion—
Tom Lum:
I just—it's just— I don't know where your brain is going, these places. You've constantly, like, "Why— Oh, it rhymes! That's why they must do it!" Just going around being like, "You know what?"
Ella:
You have, like, "Wednesday's child is full of woe," or whatever. So you don't want a child on Wednesday. Maybe March, you know... March's child is full of—
Tom Lum:
So I'll say this. I think you're thinking— you're thinking of a different aspect of the vasectomy process in terms of, like—
Ella:
Not having kids.
Tom Lum:
Yes, which, you know, is part of it, but the timing has less to do with that and more with the process, if that makes sense.
Caroline:
Oh, do people, like, make it their New Year's resolution to do it, but there's a three months' waiting period?
Tom Lum:
That's a good idea, but that's not it. It's a different— it's a different reasoning for that month.
Caroline:
Is it something to do with, like, people do it on a certain date but they have got to have like a—they've got to come back, like, for two sessions to make sure that they definitely want to do it and therefore it just happens to be March that this actually gets to take place?
Tom Lum:
Almost, Caroline. It is—it's— it's again—'cause it's a medical procedure so—
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah.
Ella:
My brain's gone now. I was on the baby train.
Tom Lum:
If it's a hel— if it helps, this is a stereotype of men... is the reason why this happens in March.
Ella:
I mean, you know, men are arseholes all year round. I don't know what that...
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Ella:
has to do with anything.
Tom Lum:
(sighs loudly)
Caroline:
Is it something to do with American insurance? And, like—
Tom Lum:
No.
Caroline:
You—ah, I was thinking, like, oh, does your thing— your insurance renew and if you couldn't cash it in before—
Ella:
Does their tax year start in April? Something to do with getting your money—
Tom Scott:
I would drill down on what Tom said about other parts of the process.
Caroline:
The consent form? Or the—
Ella:
There is no part of this that is enjoyable. Is this— Were we supposed to find some part of it that's enjoyable?
Tom Scott:
No. No, not at all.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, this is a thing that happens— is... an American pastime of sorts.
Ella:
I'm so—what?
Caroline:
Do they do it around a sporting event so they can be off work during that time? Is it around the Super Bowl or something?
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Oh, you know what? I'm gonna give it to ya, Caroline.
Tom Scott:
'Cause neither of the Brits are gonna get the reference to March Madness.
Caroline:
Oh, no! Okay!
Ella:
Oh.
Caroline:
So my thinking is when you get a vasectomy, it's not the vasectomy itself. It's that the rest period that your doctor forces you to have afterwards, why not take advantage of that being around the sporting event that you really want to watch?
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Caroline:
In this case, March Madness, apparently. (laughs)
Tom Scott:
Yep.
Caroline:
That is a real man stereotype.
Tom Lum:
Yeah. Spot on, Caroline. Spot on. No, but yeah, you nailed it. Urologists report that the two most popular times to get a vasectomy are March and the festive period. March is popular due to March Madness – a month when nonstop NCAA college basketball games every weekend, and so men schedule their vasectomy so that they can enjoy a few days to watch the games while they recuperate. Reportedly this effect has been known as – this is a stretch – "Vas Madness."
Caroline:
Wow. That's tough.
Ella:
Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Lum:
What is—is it the vas deferens? Is that the thing that is being cut? Is that the—
Tom Scott:
Oh, no, there's just a vas deferens between the monthly figures.
Ella:
Ha, ha! Ah!
Caroline:
Wow. Wow.
Tom Scott:
We'll move on!
Caroline:
(guffaws)
Tom Lum:
(sighs) And we will, actually.
Tom Scott:
And now, a question that I apologise for.
Ella:
No.
Tom Lum:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom Scott:
James was given a pencil with the number 357686312646216— —567629137 stamped on it. Why was that number chosen? James was given a pencil with the number "357686312646216567629137 stamped on it. Why was that number chosen?
Ella:
Pi.
Caroline:
You said it too fast for me to be able to write it down so that I could look at it for ten minutes and just be sad.
Tom Scott:
Oh, it's, uh, 357686312646216567629137.
Caroline:
That was really helpful. Thank you.
Tom Scott:
Thank you.
Ella:
Okay, I got 357 – (mumbling) – 137.
Caroline:
Nailed it.
Tom Scott:
And here's the thing. That's probably all you need.
Caroline:
Okay.
Ella:
Okay.
Tom Scott:
I would not have read that number so fast if you needed to memorise all of it.
Ella:
But you need some of it.
Tom Scott:
(nods silently)
Tom Lum:
Is it a very large prime?
Tom Scott:
It is, Tom Lum.
Ella:
(wheezes)
Tom Scott:
It is.
Caroline:
(laughs stunnedly)
Ella:
It's the largest prime?
Tom Lum:
Hey. Let's go. Speed run, baby.
Tom Scott:
How did you know that? What were you thinking there?
Tom Lum:
I was just going through the list of primes and I hit that number.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
Well, so I know it didn't end on an even number, was my first thing. I was just thinking of, like, what's a notable large number? At first I was like, maybe this is, like— I was gonna be like, It's the millionth pen— pencil made, but it was that... nerds use pencils.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Scott:
Nerds do use pencils, Tom.
Caroline:
Yeah!
Tom Scott:
And that's relevant here as well.
Caroline:
(cackles)
Tom Lum:
Was it the person who discovered this prime? Or who... Or were they using it to cheat on a test? Yeah, I'm like, why did they choose this? Is this a celebration, or is this someone being cheeky writing this somewhere?
Caroline:
Sometimes prime numbers are used in, like, password protection and stuff like that. Could it have been a hacking thing?
Tom Lum:
Oh, is it being used for something?
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
That's a good shout.
Ella:
Is it the circumference of the pencil, you know, in millimetres? I don't know. (cracks up)
Caroline:
(laughs squeakily)
Tom Scott:
Prime is definitely the fact to clue in on here.
Ella:
Prime.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Ella:
It's not the largest prime.
Tom Lum:
My assumption was that this was either found or used in some formula or discovery, and so this is sort of like a celebration pencil, like everyone who worked on the paper got this pencil as a gift, but is this not— is this for a celebration or is this like Caroline is saying, like, being used in a silly way, like, to cheat on a test or something?
Tom Scott:
It's not the largest prime. But you're starting to think in the right area there.
Tom Lum:
Is it a special prime? Is this for... Oh, like, is it maybe, like, for... I don't know, like, Matt Parker might get this if it's like, "Oh, it's your tenth-year anniversary, so this is the tenth-biggest prime," or something like that.
Tom Scott:
I will let you know that James in the question is James Grime who you might recognise from Numberphile and who I was—
Tom Lum:
Alright. (wheezes)
Tom Scott:
Who I actually know from uni from way back. Yeah, this is— James is James Grime. He's done a video about this on Numberphile.
Tom Lum:
Hmm.
Ella:
It's the most boring prime number.
Tom Scott:
Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not.
Ella:
So the most—
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella laugh)
Tom Lum:
Oh.
Ella:
The most interesting prime number.
Tom Scott:
There's a part of this question you haven't even talked about yet.
Caroline:
There's more to the question? I got so lost on the number that I don't know if I heard anything else.
Tom Scott:
James was given a pencil with the number... (inhales deeply) 357686312646216567629137 stamped on it. Why was this number chosen?
Caroline:
Because you can't use a pen in space. You can use a pencil.
Tom Scott:
Oh, this wouldn't work if it was a pen.
Caroline:
This wouldn't work if it was a pen?
Tom Lum:
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh! As you sharpen a pencil... does it stay a prime number?
Tom Scott:
Yes, it does, Tom Lum! And Ella, when you said the largest prime, it is the largest prime that has that property. You cannot add another number on the left of it.
Caroline:
(gasps)
Tom Lum:
Wait, that's amazing!
Ella:
Brilliant! That's so cool.
Tom Scott:
And you know, when you said you only need the start and the end, you actually only need the end. You only need the 137. So as you sharpen, the left numbers keep getting removed, keep getting removed, and you end up with 9137, which is prime, 137, 37, and 7.
Caroline:
Wow!
Tom Lum:
That's cool.
Caroline:
That is so freakin' nerdy.
Tom Lum:
Oh, no! We're nerds! It's confirmed!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ella:
That's a very Let's Learn Everything -coded fact. That was perfect.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Ella, your question.
Ella:
Thank you to Aaron Weber for this question. Vlad and Barry agree to meet up somewhere iconic on Main Street in Louisville, Kentucky, that you can't miss. However, one goes to a sports museum while the other waits at a novelty store. What did they say that caused the confusion? I'll say that again. Vlad and Barry agree to meet up somewhere iconic on Main Street in Louisville, Kentucky, that you cannot miss. However one goes to a sports museum while the other waits at a novelty store. What did they say that caused the confusion?
Tom Lum:
Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.
Tom Scott:
Is that in Louisville, Kentucky?
Tom Lum:
I don't know.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Ella:
What making you think that, Tom?
Tom Lum:
Am I wrong that Kentucky's sort of a music hub? I'm thinking maybe more of Tennessee, but I know there's some, you know— that that's sort of what I would think around there, but then I was like, "Rocks." I was like, "Oh, this—" it's—you say a thing that has two meanings. And if it was novelty, I'd be like, I would name a— (laughs) I would name a competing store the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and it's just a bunch of really round rocks that you roll around.
Ella:
(laughs)
Caroline:
Wow. I'm thinking is it like... the logo of the museum and the shop are similar enough that it could be, like, "Oh, we're both going to..." I'm trying to think of an example now. "We're going to the can," and it's like... the can shop or the can museum. And it's got a LEGO on it or something like that. I've explained this really badly. But, okay.
Tom Lum:
No, I get you, yeah.
Caroline:
Thank you.
Tom Scott:
Vlad and Barry are making me suspicious. 'Cause my brain has gone, Vladimir Putin, Barack Obama.
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh)
Tom Scott:
That's the sort of thing that a question writer would put in. Vlad and Barry are, in fact, Vladimir Putin, Barack Obama. Come on!
Caroline:
Have you considered that you've been doing this show for too long?
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom Scott:
Here's the thing. Whether that's right or wrong, I've still been doing this show too long!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ella:
I'll say Vlad and Barry is... It's not Vladimir Putin and Barack Obama.
Tom Scott:
Agh!
Ella:
But it is a cheeky reference, but probably don't focus on it too hard.
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
I was gonna say, does it have— is it, like... to do with, like, if you say something with an accent it might sound like something else?
Caroline:
Mm!
Ella:
No.
Tom Lum:
No, okay.
Ella:
The confusion idea you were both getting at in your own way was, you know— is kind of— you're getting there.
Caroline:
Is there, like, a statue outside of both, and you could end up getting the statue confused, and you've gone, like, "Oh, head to the big elephant statue," and there's one outside of both?
Ella:
You are on the— you are along the right lines.
Caroline:
Ooh.
Ella:
It is, you know, something you can't miss.
Tom Scott:
This is something iconic in Louisville, Kentucky.
Caroline:
Mm. Oh, yeah, of course.
Tom Scott:
That can be resolved to both a sports museum and a novelty store. And the only novelty store I can think of is, like, Spirit Halloween. But there's...
Ella:
No, you're—yep.
Tom Scott:
Really?
Caroline:
Oh?
Ella:
I mean, I don't know— It's not a Spirit Halloween, but—
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Ella:
It—Halloween is—
Tom Lum:
Wait, really?
Ella:
Yeah, important.
Tom Lum:
Oh.
Caroline:
It's not, like, a big skeleton? Oh, wait. You specifically said it was a sports museum.
Ella:
One's a sports museum, one's a novelty store.
Tom Scott:
Oh, my brain's firing all sorts of connections here. Louisville. Louisville Slugger is a baseball bat. We're talking about a sports museum. Is there, like, the— the baseball bat—
Tom Lum:
The giant bat!
Tom Scott:
The—
Ella:
(cracks up)
Tom Scott:
The giant bat!
Tom Lum:
The big bat.
Tom Scott:
It's at Halloween, and there are two big bats!
Ella:
That's it.
Tom Lum:
Oh my god.
Caroline:
Oh! Oh!
Ella:
So, "What did they say that caused the confusion" here would be—
Tom Scott:
"Meet me at the giant bat."
Ella:
"Let's meet at the world's largest bat."
Tom Scott:
World's largest bat!
Tom Lum:
(laughs excitedly)
Caroline:
Wow!
Tom Scott:
And Vlad is a reference to vampires, and Barry is a reference to... Barry Bonds the baseball player?
Ella:
Yes, exactly.
Caroline:
Well done!
Tom Lum:
Wow!
Caroline:
Ooh!
Tom Lum:
Got the bonus point, there.
Ella:
So if they agree to meet at the world's largest bat on Main Street in Louisville, Kentucky...
SFX:
(both Toms laugh)
Ella:
there would be two locations that fit this description: the world's largest baseball bat – a carbon steel replica of a bat used by Babe Ruth in the 1920s, which is about 120 feet high... and then also, two blocks away, the world's largest vampire bat could be found on the side of Caufield's Novelty Store. It's 24—
Tom Lum:
Oh, it's actually the world's la—
Ella:
Well, that's what they say. I mean, I have to assume.
Tom Lum:
Wow!
Ella:
How many are there?
Tom Scott:
They must have set that up as a parody.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, yeah, yeah!
Tom Scott:
It's a deliberate choice, that is!
Tom Lum:
What if it was the other way? What if it was, like, the world's largest vampire bat, and then they're like, "Wait a second. Hold on."
Ella:
And this vampire bat is 24 feet tall and 18 feet wide. And then you got the name Vlad as in Vlad the Impaler – the inspiration for Dracula, and Barry as in Barry Bonds were tiny little hints there.
Tom Lum:
Wow.
Tom Scott:
Which means we just have the question from the start of the show. Thank you to Alex Dzurick for sending this one in. On the 8th of May 2025, which US fast food company wrote a post on X that contains just the company's name spelt out? Anyone want to take a punt at that?
Tom Lum:
I feel like so many surreal, you know, corporate accounts are doing stuff like this.
Caroline:
Mhm.
Tom Scott:
Oh yeah, some social media manager was extremely proud of themselves.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
Was it timely? Was there a clever reason, where it's like—
Tom Scott:
Yeah, absolutely.
Tom Lum:
Oh, because... someone named Wendy is in the news, we just say, "Wendy's."
Tom Scott:
Egh, yeah, you're pretty close.
Tom Lum:
Is it Wendy's specifically?
Tom Scott:
It's not. It's not Wendy's. But you are absolutely along the right lines.
Tom Lum:
Like Burger King, someone was—
Ella:
Did someone famous die or—
Tom Scott:
Not that day. But if they hadn't, this wouldn't be happening.
Ella:
Oh.
Caroline:
Oh?
Ella:
Who died on the 8th of May this— earlier than that this year?
Tom Scott:
Oh, no. Much earlier.
Tom Lum:
Or, no. They're alive.
Tom Scott:
No, no, no. They— Someone else died.
Tom Lum:
Oh, my god! Is this about the—like, the queen, and then, like, Burger King—
Tom Scott:
No. No, no, no. No.
Tom Lum:
(laughs) "There's a new Burger King!"
Tom Scott:
Oh, you—you're— well, you're kinda close!
Ella:
Oh, was it his coronation? Was it— Oh, it was King Charles's coronation, or something, or his birthday?
Tom Scott:
No, slightly too late for that.
Ella:
Oh.
Tom Scott:
But you're along the right lines. Sort of dynasties— long, long chains of people who've been doing the same thing.
Ella:
It's not Burger King?
Tom Scott:
It's not, no. The letters were in the right order. The formatting was slightly different.
Tom Lum:
McDonald's. Five Guys.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
Just list them all.
Caroline:
Just go through all of them.
Tom Scott:
We're not talking kings, but we are talking leaders here.
Ella:
Something to do with pu—pootin—poutine.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
It wa—this was a ma— This was a major world event. It was in one country but everyone around the world was paying attention to this.
Tom Lum:
The pope?
Ella:
Oh!
Caroline:
(gasps) Oh! Popeyes?
Tom Scott:
Yes, it was. So what did they send out?
Caroline:
"Pope yes"?
Tom Scott:
"Pope yes"!
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella laugh)
Tom Lum:
Oh my god.
Tom Scott:
This was the American fast food chicken chain Popeyes. They shared a post that simply said, "pope yes," because Pope Leo XIV had been elected that day. Thank you very much to our players for running the gauntlet one more time. Where can people find you? What's going on with your show? We will start with Tom Lum.
Tom Lum:
We are Let's Learn Everything, the science and comedy podcast where we learn about science and a little bit of everything else.
Tom Scott:
Caroline Roper, what sort of things?
Caroline:
Oh, my goodness. We have talked about everything from black holes to tattoos all in one episode. We've also talked about autumn leaves and swearing, where we are in the universe, and carrot propaganda. It literally can be anything and everything.
Tom Scott:
And where can people find you, Ella Hubber?
Ella:
letslearneverything.com, baby.
Tom Scott:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, baby.
Ella:
Whoo!
Tom Scott:
Not happy with that. Regret everything about it.
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Tom Scott:
Where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular weekly video episodes in full on Spotify. Thank you very much to Ella Hubber.
Ella:
Whoo!
Tom Scott:
Caroline Roper.
Caroline:
Yeah!
Tom Scott:
Tom Lum.
Tom Lum:
Wahoo!
Tom Scott:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| VOICEOVER | John Lumapas |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes'), Andreas Dahlbäck ('See You in the Rear View'), courtesy of epidemicsound.com |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Aaron Weber, Simon, Amir Sarid, Alex Dzurick, Stijn |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |