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Episode 170: Please don't!
9th January, 2026 • Charlotte Yeung, Annie Rauwerda and Alexis Dahl face questions about medieval mercenaries, alarm apps and backpacking bandages.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
What type of workers are named after the mercenary knights who toured Europe after the Crusades?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
We've got so good at making this show now that we can strip it down to its bare essentials. Here we go: There are questions. There are guests. And there will be confusion. And if anything else happens, that's honestly a bonus. Let's meet the three players that are gonna be confused today.
We start, returning to the show: From the depths of Wikipedia, Annie Rauwerda, welcome back.
Annie:
Hi, I've emerged from the depths. (laughs)
Tom:
What depths have you been plumbing recently?
Annie:
Oh boy. I was just reading about in Darwin, Australia, there was, in the 1970s, there was a group that did rock sitting as an activity. There had just been a big hurricane, so there was really nowhere to hang out. And they would sit on rocks, drink beer sometimes for large stretches of time, and they're still doing it in their 70s. So I was reading about them. I'm a big fan. Shout out to Darwin.
Tom:
(wheezes) Wait. For a moment, when you said rock sitting, I got that in the idea of babysitting. They're not keeping someone else's rock for 'em.
Annie:
No, they're sitting on rocks.
Tom:
Okay.
Annie:
(giggles) But there were babies there. Many of them got married, many of them are still friends. It turns out when you sit on a rock for two weeks straight, sometimes you find love.
Tom:
Two— Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. I realise this is not the point of the podcast, but two weeks straight sitting on the same rock?
Annie:
Yes. It's a big rock.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
Do they sleep on the rock?
Annie:
Yes.
Tom:
Okay. We're gonna park that one and we're gonna meet our next guest, but I'm sure at some point that will get added to Wikipedia.
Annie, thank you—
Annie:
It's on there.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
Thank you so much for coming back on the show and just immediately dropping an interesting fact in.
Our second guest, also a returning player. Last time I introduced Charlotte Yeung, it was as one of the players on ITV's The Genius Game.
That is now well in the past, and I now get to introduce Charlotte as a PhD student, Miss London, and finalist for Miss England. Congratulations on all that and welcome back to the show.
Charlotte:
Thank you so much, Tom. Yes! So I needed to check more things on the box. So here we are, Miss London.
Tom:
(laughs)
Charlotte:
But on the same reign of not always winning... Miss England finalist.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
The thing is, we could have filmed this a couple of weeks ago, at which point, you would've been like, "It's the final. I don't know what's gonna happen." But you get finalist no matter what.
Charlotte:
Yes, yeah, I'm just taking all those finalist titles as much as I can.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Tom:
Oh, oh, spoilers for anyone who hasn't watched The Genius Game there as well. Although...
Charlotte:
Shh!
Tom:
If you haven't by now, really. I should ask about Miss London and Miss England. 'Cause I think a lot of people still have the notion that it is this swimsuit competition and a beauty contest and nothing else.
Charlotte:
Yes. I think that's a common misconception.
So England was actually the first country to completely strip away the swimwear competition. So there's no swimsuit. Walking all 'round. And I actually think it's much more of who you are as a person, more about what you kind of believe in, what you stand for, what kind of cause you want to partake in, what cause you want to push forward. It's about beauty with a purpose now. And that's Miss World's slogan.
England— Miss England has been one of the best opportunities I've had, and I've had a lot of fun doing it. And although this time it wasn't successful, perhaps in the future, who knows?
Annie:
I think a finalist is successful.
Tom:
Yeah, right?
Charlotte:
Thank you.
SFX:
(Charlotte and Annie laugh)
Charlotte:
That's just me.
Alexis:
I agree. I'll get in on that.
Tom:
Well, also joining us on the show today: a first-time player, from her YouTube channel about science and history in Michigan.
Alexis Dahl, welcome to Lateral.
Alexis:
Thanks! Glad to be here.
Tom:
You are a first-time player, so absolutely. Tell the audience, what do you do? What's your YouTube channel about? What are you working on right now?
Alexis:
Yeah, absolutely.
So I am a science communicator. And Tom, like you mentioned, I run a series that's basically just about figuring out why my home state of Michigan is the way it is. And sometimes that means I look at weird cliffs and I ask why they exist and what rocks they're made out of.
Sometimes it means a story I'm working on right now. So it's winter in my corner of the world, which means all the good rocks are covered up now by snow.
Tom:
(laughs)
Alexis:
But I'm trying to figure out what's the deal with— So in the Upper Peninsula, there's the only, I think only according to them, full-length natural luge course in the United States.
Tom:
(gasps)
Alexis:
And I would like to figure out what the deal with that is, and I want to see if they'll let me go down the hill.
Tom:
Right?!
Alexis:
So that's what I do.
Tom:
The number of videos on your channel where I've gone, "I wish I'd known about that."
Alexis:
(laughs)
Tom:
That and the ore docks. I would've absolutely filmed the ore docks, and I would absolutely go down the luge course.
Alexis:
That's the whole thing is I just wander around going, "I've lived in this state my entire life, and I did not know this was here."
Tom:
Well, very best of luck to you with that. Very best of luck to all three of our players with the challenge today. Let's begin our extremely efficient chaos with question one.
On a 2002 album by the band System of a Down, Why does some record shops put a sticker saying, "PLEASE DON'T"?
I'll give you that one more time. On a 2002 album by the band System of a Down, Why does some record shops put a sticker saying, "PLEASE DON'T"?
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Alexis:
I want a copy of that sticker.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Annie:
I could put it on stop signs. I could put it on anything.
Alexis:
Oh gosh.
Annie:
I could really mess up the world. Well, my first thought is that it's commanding you.@7 What if the album is commanding you to do a crime? Like, I don't know.
Alexis:
(stifles giggling)
Annie:
Please yell. Please steal this. Please...
Charlotte:
(laughs)
Annie:
Maybe it wouldn't say 'please' if it's System of a Down.
"Steal!"
Alexis:
(blurts laugh)
Tom:
Yes!
Annie:
Oh no. That was so fast! What?
SFX:
(Alexis and Charlotte laugh)
Annie:
I'm terrible at this game. That was no fun.
Tom:
No, no, that's fine. We've got the first bit of it there. You are right. Why is the album telling you that? It is telling you to do a crime, and it is telling you to steal.
Alexis:
Oh?
Tom:
But we've not quite got all the way there yet.
Charlotte:
Is that the title of the album, is relating to the crime?
Tom:
Yes...? And given we are going through this so quickly, I'm gonna need the name of the album.
Charlotte:
Eh... (laughs)
Alexis:
Oh, oh, okay.
Charlotte:
Kill!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Alexis:
Is— So it's an album.
Tom:
Mhm.
Alexis:
And it was the early 2000s. Is piracy involved?
Tom:
Ooh. Sort of, yes.
Annie:
You wouldn't steal an album.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Well... yeah. I think I'll give you that. The album is called Steal This Album.
Alexis:
Ohhh.
Annie:
Oh. And it's because of the anti-piracy ads?
Tom:
Well, sort of.
Annie:
Maybe?
Tom:
It's partly a reference to Steal This Book, which is a famous counterculture book. Oh, right.
Alexis:
Hm.
Tom:
It's also a bit to do with piracy, because unfinished versions of the album had leaked onto the internet.
Alexis:
Oh?
Tom:
There's one last thing that you haven't quite caught though, which is... again, 2002, in that era, how was piracy being done? What might this look like?
Alexis:
Have I gone back too far? Was there copying of CDs?
Tom:
Yes, there was.
Alexis:
Was that the primary thing? Okay.
Tom:
It was just starting to get taken over by internet piracy then. But yeah, thinking about that. So what might this have looked like?
Alexis:
Was the idea to "please steal this album from your local store, share it around with your buddies," and everybody burns a copy?
Tom:
Uhm... it was more like someone had already done that. At least it looked that way.
Alexis:
Okay.
Tom:
Well, just, you're going to the record store. Because those were a thing back then.
Charlotte:
It looks like a CD? Instead of a black record lab— like record, if that's possible?
Tom:
Oh, these were— This was when you bought CDs in the record store.
Charlotte:
Oh.
Tom:
Sorry, I've just realised that that is ambiguous to someone who is your age! In the—
Charlotte:
(cracks up)
Tom:
The record store in the sense of buying whatever format of music is currently available. So yeah, they would—
Annie:
Did they have running water back then?
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom:
There would've been stacks and stacks of CDs there for you to buy. And this one looked a little different.
Alexis:
Did it just look like a crummy rainbow CD with like Sharpie on it?
Tom:
Yes, it did.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
System of a Down's album, Steal This Album, has a jewel case that looks like someone has scrawled the title on, like you have pirated it for a friend.
Alexis:
I love it. That's wonderful. (laughs)
Tom:
So there was a very real chance that someone would go into a record store, think that was a pirated copy, and go, "Oh, they're not selling that." So some record stores print out little labels that said, "Please don't."
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. Annie, we'll go to you.
Annie:
Okay, well...
This question has been sent in by Calum.
When Jack Woolams was a test pilot for the Bell P-59 Airacomet, he sometimes wore a gorilla mask, a bowler hat, and a cigar. Why?
When Jack Woolams was a test pilot for the Bell P-59 Airacomet, he sometimes wore a gorilla mask, a bowler hat, and a cigar. Why?
Tom:
This is the first time where we've had a question, and all three people were looking down during it. I don't know if that was just thinking and avoiding eye contact, or if all three of us are taking notes this time.
Charlotte:
I got "gorilla hat". No – gorilla mask, bowler hat, and cigar.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Alexis:
I got no notes.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Charlotte:
These all cover different areas. Well, how would you use a cigar if you've got a mask on?
Tom:
Is this an really old plane, and there are paparazzi on the...
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Tom:
on the... the tiny runway that it's taking off from?
Annie:
It's before 1950.
Alexis:
Oh?
Tom:
Okay.
Alexis:
That's not what I was thinking at all. Okay.
Tom:
The obvious thing would be, it's a practical joke.
Alexis:
Mhm.
Tom:
But why... (laughs) Why a gorilla in a bowler hat with a cigar?
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Alexis:
That's very— It's either very specific or it's very random, and I'm not sure which.
Tom:
I've been doing a load of research for some stuff I'm filming at the moment. And I have found that there are so many old references that sort of worldwide sometimes, or maybe just in one country, where everyone knew them for about 5-10 years, and they just dropped out of pop culture entirely. So I'm wondering if there's some pop culture reference to cigar, bowler hat, gorilla that we don't know anymore.
Annie:
Gorillas do sometimes smoke. Have you ever seen this?
Alexis:
What?
Tom:
What?
Annie:
Yeah, there's a— I don't know which great ape it is. I don't— I'm not very good at the primate terminology. So somebody's gonna be listening to this just like, "Rrr!"
Tom:
(laughs)
Annie:
But there's some animal at the Pyongyang Zoo named Azalea, who's addicted to smoking.
Alexis:
What?
Annie:
And... It's really funny, the pictures of it, but then it's also kind of sad. And they also— I mean, they'll also get Coca-Cola. They love all our vices.
Alexis:
(wheezes)
Annie:
That's not related to the question.
Tom:
No, it's not, but it was wonderful.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Charlotte:
Any famous man with a bowler hat taking a cigar, I feel like there's— there must be someone in history.
Tom:
Winston Churchill. But no, that's just a cigar. It's not a bowler hat. That wasn't his style.
Annie:
Do you think maybe he tried it out one time, just to see if that's him?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Oh, thank you to Producer David. Azalea is a female chimpanzee at the Korea Central Zoo.
Alexis:
Oh, alright.
Tom:
Reportedly able to light her own cigarettes. Smoked up to a pack a day.
Charlotte:
Right. The pilot was cosplaying Azalea. Sorted. Done.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Alexis:
Sort!
Annie:
Okay. So he was pulling a prank that had practical benefit.
Tom:
Huh.
Alexis:
Okay.
Annie:
Oh, and the P-59 was a new type of plane.
Charlotte:
Was he trying to get noticed by someone else while flying the plane? Because they're quite ostentatious items.
Annie:
I'm not gonna say yes or no, but keep thinking about that.
Charlotte:
Okay.
Alexis:
Okay.
Tom:
You said before 1950, right? So that's too early for the jet engine, but...
Annie:
Or is it?
Tom:
Oh? Oh, is my— Okay. It's... Okay, so he's an early jet fighter test pilot.
Annie:
Hmmmh!
Alexis:
Was this the first jet engine plane?
Tom:
Also, I assumed fighter. This has to be a wartime or a...
Annie:
Ooh.
Tom:
Is it a Second World War thing then?
Annie:
Yes, we are in the depths of the Second World War.
Charlotte:
Is it to get noticed by allies?
Annie:
Think about being noticed. It's not to get noticed.
Alexis:
Is it to hide which country has that plane or hide the identity of the pilot somehow?
Annie:
He was concerned as to what other pilots might say.
Alexis:
Hm.
Tom:
Huh.
Annie:
And remember that during wartime, all of these— all this research was done... in secret.
Tom:
Oh! Oh... no, hold on. Okay, I'm gonna set the scene here.
I am going to imagine you're on an air base somewhere, and you are some junior fighter pilot who is going up in the old planes, in the reliable ones.
And you are gonna try and tell the lads back in the barracks that you saw this shiny new, impossible plane. And it was being piloted by a gorilla. No one's gonna believe you.
SFX:
(Alexis and Charlotte cackle)
Annie:
Yes!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Annie:
That's pretty much it. Anyone who saw his secret test flights would not be believed. Because how is a gorilla mask with a bowler hat and a cigar flying a plane? You're seeing things.
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
Annie:
In the 1940s, Bell Aircraft was secretly testing the P-59 Airacomet, America's first jet fighter.
Tom:
Huh.
Annie:
Jack Woolams, one of Bell's senior test pilots, occasionally joined formations of ordinary propeller aircraft, flying close enough for other pilots to notice him.
A jet aircraft with no visible propeller was already strange, but Woolams went further. He donned a gorilla mask, a bowler hat, and a cigar to make the entire encounter utterly unbelievable.
It was part prank, part security measure. Any pilot who returns to base claiming to have seen a mysterious air aircraft flown by a cigar-smoking gorilla would be laughed at! On other occasions, Bell fitted a fake wooden propeller to the nose to help disguise the jet.
Wow, that's interesting.
Tom:
Wow!
Annie:
Although the P-59 never saw combat before World War II ended, its testing helped pave the way for later American jet fighters.
Tom:
Our next question is from Conor Slevin. Thank you very much.
When trying to set his morning alarm, Conor found that the range of options for his alarm ranged between 1 o'clock and 4:39. Why?
And one more time.
When trying to set his morning alarm, Conor found that the range of options for his alarm ranged between 1 o'clock and 4:39. Why?
Charlotte:
It was summer time, and after 4:39, there's already sun. so you're waking up to the sun.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Alexis:
I don't know how this helps, if it does. Is this a 12-hour clock or a 24-hour clock?
Tom:
It is a 12-hour clock, but that wouldn't really make a difference here.
Annie:
Well, I personally never, ever set an alarm for 1 o'clock or 4:39. In my life, if I'm setting an alarm
SFX:
(distant beeping)
Annie:
in between those times... Oh no.
Tom:
Is that an impeccably
Charlotte:
Paid actor?
Annie:
Alarm started going off.
Tom:
well-timed alarm going off?
SFX:
(Alexis and Charlotte laugh)
Annie:
Yeah. I have a— Okay. I have to be right back. I have a like emergency 'if I sleep past 10, this goes off'.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Annie:
Which never happens because I don't like to wake up at weird times. Okay.
SFX:
(laughter continues)
Annie:
(walks off)
Alexis:
Oh, that's perfect.
SFX:
(beeping stops)
Alexis:
(giggles)
Annie:
(sits back in) That was a paid actor.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Annie:
I— Like if— I'm always up at 1, and if it's 1 am, I'm trying to go to sleep. I'm just thinking he has a weird sleep schedule. That's all.
Alexis:
(laughs)
Annie:
Maybe he works third shift. That's, you know... (snickers)
Charlotte:
is it that the alarm itself cannot physically be set past four hours, 4:39 am? Or is it that he himself would never go and do that?
Tom:
I'm gonna just give you the phrasing in the question very carefully. The range of options for his alarm ranged between one o'clock and 4:39.
Charlotte:
the range of options. So, I'm going to take that as... you cannot go any further than 4:39.
Annie:
And 4:39 what? O'clock, hours, minutes?
Alexis:
(laughs)
Annie:
What if you... I mean, like when you have a baby, you wake up every two hours.
Alexis:
Oh my gosh.
Annie:
At least. So maybe it's like you only get a certain block of sleep. I don't know. That seems terrible.
Alexis:
I'm gonna go real weird here. Is he on Earth?
Tom:
Oh! That's—
Alexis:
(wheezes)
Tom:
You figured out how to play this game very quickly, but in this case, it is very mundane. In fact...
Alexis:
Okay.
Tom:
A very mundane type of alarm as well. The one we probably all use these days.
Annie:
Was it broken? Did it just— Did it like— you know how there like... There are like block numbers. Did certain blocks go out?
Tom:
Not that type of alarm.
Annie:
Okay. I was thinking digital.
Tom:
Oh, it is. But chances are most people don't use an actual alarm clock anymore.
Charlotte:
We use our phones.
Tom:
Yes we do.
Alexis:
Mhm.
Annie:
Not all of us. (holds up watch)
SFX:
(others laughing)
Charlotte:
His REMs deep cycle was like, "You best sleep for four hours. And so... if you use this app, we'll only let you sleep for the next four hours and 39 minutes."
SFX:
(Alexis and Charlotte giggle)
Tom:
App is the correct word in that.
Charlotte:
So he's not using alarm. He's using a very specific niche app.
Tom:
No, he is actually using the default alarm on an iPhone, actually.
Alexis:
Mm.
Annie:
But he can only go to 4:39?
Tom:
The range of options...
Annie:
Okay.
Tom:
range between 1 o'clock and 4:39.
Charlotte:
Was it nearing the end of the year and so you couldn't actually go further into the distance of, for example, it stops at 31st of December... But then I feel like it would stop at like... What would it stop at? 23:59, not 4:39. So maybe not.
Annie:
Okay, so I have just... something to add that I saw online one time, and it was that...
somebody scrolled and scrolled and scrolled through the times on the iPhone alarms, and it wasn't a loop. They didn't loop like 1 to 12, or 1 to 24. They just kept listing them.
And so you could reach the end if you went some ridiculous distance of scrolling.
So maybe this is relevant. I don't know. I don't know. 4:39 is really throwing me off.
Tom:
Annie, exactly right.
Annie:
Darn it!
SFX:
(group laughs and clamours)
Annie:
All of these submitters should be my friends because we definitely have the same feeds. But I'm still— I don't— 4:39 is throwing me off. What's 4:39?
Tom:
So the iPhone clock widget, if you'd like, the thing where you scroll up and scroll down, it looks like a loop... is actually just a really long list of options that starts with one and zero-zero. And it turns out that if you scroll and scroll and scroll... however many options are allowed on that list means that it stops repeating at 4:39.
And the reason I was cagey about 24 hours is that's the next one over. If you set it to am and pm, that's the third option. If you set it to 24 hours, then it'll probably end at a different point, but yes, you are spot on. 4:39 is—
And that's why I was so cagey about the range. Like it ranges from one to 4:39. There's just a few thousand other options in there as you go.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Alexis, over to you, please.
Alexis:
Absolutely. Alright.
This question has been sent in by Emily. Thanks, Emily.
Isla is packing for a hike in Australia. While organising her first-aid kit, she packs large bandages with rectangles printed on them rather than the cheaper, plain option. Why?
Go again.
Isla is packing for a hike in Australia. While organising her first-aid kit, she packs large bandages with rectangles printed on them rather than the cheaper, plain option. Why?
Annie:
When I think— So I— My mom is a pediatrician, and so growing up I had tons of fun Band-Aids. 'Cause that's the stereotype, like, oh, you're gonna have Band-Aids. So she would carry them in her purse, and she would always have the coolest ones. And so like growing up, I had, I don't know, whatever was the cool kid show. I always had cool Band-Aids. And let me just say rectangles, not that exciting.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Annie:
You can do better than rectangles.
Charlotte:
I want some Hello Kitty ones. Yeah. (chuckles)
Tom:
I'm going to Australian stereotypes immediately, which is either... creatures that will kill you or the Flying Doctors. If you're going for a big road trip in Australia, you are probably gonna be on that road for hours, and there's nothing around.
And there are remote airstrips where the... I can't remember their official name, but they're known as the Flying Doctors. The... you know, they'll— they turn up as emergency medics in a plane to whichever remote airstrip needs it.
So I'm like, is there something about being visible from the air when you slap your bandages on?
Or something like some Australian stereotype that means that this wards off rattlesnake— not rattlesnake— wards off taipans or something like that.
Alexis:
The most I will tell you is that there is a connection to an Australian stereotype.
Tom:
(laughs) Right. It's time to offend Australia. Here we go!
Annie:
Okay. (chuckles)
Alexis:
Not a particularly offensive one, I don't think.
Annie:
Okay, so what are some Australian stereotypes? Laid back.
Tom:
Getting sunburned all the time.
Charlotte:
Lots of spiders. Spiders is on the right track for sure.
Tom:
Okay.
Charlotte:
Just like humans have fears of spiders, do spiders have fears of rectangles?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Oh, no, but that might make sense. If there's... Erm... Yes, but you wouldn't need that for a bandage. You don't need to ward a spider off somewhere that it's already bitten.
Annie:
What if she passes out? Isla does? Because she gets bitten by a spider, and she was able to call the plane medic in time, but they don't know what the injury is. Is there something like this? This rectangle is a code for spider emergency?
Alexis:
It is not a code, but it would be quite helpful if you were bitten by certain types of spiders.
Annie:
(gasps)
Alexis:
Something about this bandage.
Tom:
And that's not the big ones either. The big ones that people are scared of are not the spiders that'll bite you and cause a problem. You need to look out for the tiny ones.
Charlotte:
Are there reactions based on venom or poison of spiders or even snakes?
Alexis:
There is no reaction within the bandage, no.
Charlotte:
I'm guessing as— oh, as time goes on, perhaps... I don't wanna say they change colour, but there might be some sort of visual implication, and then that tells you how many hours it's been, if you are unable to time it yourself?
Alexis:
So, spider bites, some sort of visual change on the bandage. Those things are very warm. Think about what you might do in the immediate aftermath of this kind of spider or snake bite.
Tom:
Panic.
Annie:
Scream, freak out.
Alexis:
Okay, after that.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Annie:
Pass out.
Alexis:
Between the screaming and the passing out. What might happen?
Charlotte:
Never go back to Australia again.
Annie:
Call the medic. Call the medic and say, "Don't wear your gorilla mask this time. I just need a normal doctor."
Tom:
Okay, but you're gonna try and maybe put— (sighs) Are you carrying anti-venom with you? Are you trying to inject— No. 'Cause you've gotta identify which spider bite it is, if you're figuring that out.
Alexis:
It's perhaps not as fancy as you're imagining.
Charlotte:
You just wanna stop the blood from coming out. You don't wanna bleed out.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Charlotte:
That's what plasters are for.
Alexis:
So if it's not just blood that's coming out of the wound. If you've been bitten by something venomous...
Tom:
Oh, you need to know what the thing is. You know you've been bitten, but you might not know— You might not know what the thing is. So does it like sample the venom that's left in there?
Alexis:
Less fancy, so lower priority than that. You know you've possibly been bitten by something venomous.
Charlotte:
It will tell you whether it's venomous or not.
Alexis:
Let's just assume you either know it is, or you know there's a risk.
Charlotte:
We would all just die, clearly.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Alexis:
Goodbye, world.
So you've been bitten by this thing. You know there's quite a real risk that venom has gone into your body. You're in the outback, and you know it's gonna be some amount of time before you can make it to the hospital.
This bandage is going to do— serve some function that allows you to get from point A to point B. Or it's gonna keep you safe in the interim.
Charlotte:
Oh, you are like tying it— No. And you're stopping the blood flow.
Alexis:
Yeah, that's very warm.
Charlotte:
Is that it?
Alexis:
So, that is very warm.
Tom:
It's more of a tourniquet than a bandage, then? It cuts off blood supply somehow?
Alexis:
If you would like, I can give you the name of the technique that this bandage does.
So, the technique is called the pressure immobilization technique. So you're trying to slow the movement of venom. So these are, I read some reviews of these bandages. They're often given to people, you know, as Christmas gifts. They're not necessarily just something that a medical professional might have. Your average person might take some of these out to the, you know, out to a hike. You know, you're gonna want to immobilize the area. You're not a trained professional.
Is there anything these rectangles could help you figure out?
Charlotte:
And they're evenly spaced across, is that how... how many times you should wrap? Like the spacing of the wrapping that you should do?
Alexis:
Spacing is close. So the rectangles are an instruction of some kind. You do look, as you're applying this bandage, you use the rectangles to figure out if you're applying it correctly.
Annie:
Well, does the rectangle indicate that there's a lot of blood flow happening, and so it's like, "Well, tourniquet harder"?
Alexis:
No. So think about, you wanna put this bandage, you know, tense over a wound to keep the area locked in. What we're looking for with the rectangle, it's just a very simple physical change. So think about a Band-Aid or about a bandage. What happens when you move it around? You're tying it on a wound. You're stretching it over an area. What's gonna happen to those rectangles as you're yanking the Band-Aid around?
Charlotte:
They get elongated as well.
Alexis:
Mhm. As much as you pull it.
Annie:
Oh, and so you wanna, it's just testing, like you really wanna pull this thing, so you want this rectangle to stretch all the way around or something like that.
Alexis:
Very, very close. Maybe not all the way around, but what happens if you stretch a rectangle?
Annie:
It gets to be a thinner rectangle.
Charlotte:
When it hits the other end, it becomes a cylinder.
Annie:
It becomes a square.
Alexis:
It becomes a square!
Annie:
Yay.
Alexis:
So the deal with these bandages is: So from bites from snakes or funnel web spiders, use the pressure immobilization technique to wrap a limb and slow the movement of venom. These compression bandages have a rectangle on them, that when you have stretched it to the correct tension, the rectangle becomes a square, and that's how you know you've done it correctly.
Tom:
That is really clever.
Alexis:
Mhm, yeah. I was just like, less fancy than you're thinking.
Tom:
(laughs)
Annie:
Wow. I'm so glad that I'm not bit by a spider right now, and I don't even have to think about that.
Alexis:
I feel similarly, I've learned that there is... perhaps one type of venomous spider in Michigan, and I'm now convinced that every spider I see is that type. Deeply unlikely, but these are my fears.
Annie:
Okay, well, yay. New thing to be afraid of.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Thank you to Fearghal McGuinness for this question.
In 1964, Frank built a concrete wall in the Maruia valley of South Island, New Zealand. It doesn't form a boundary or enclose anything, and three-quarters of it is underground. Why would Frank be disappointed by the wall's longevity?
I'll say that again.
In 1964, Frank built a concrete wall in the Maruia valley of South Island, New Zealand. It doesn't form a boundary or enclose anything, and three-quarters of it is underground. Why would Frank be disappointed by the wall's longevity?
Annie:
He built a wall, but he wants it to come down?
Alexis:
The first thing I thought was just art installation.
SFX:
(both chuckle)
Charlotte:
I was thinking, I mean, if he's upset by the longevity. Is it not that the wall has broken down, but maybe... it no longer belongs to him? Or... maybe because it's underground, you couldn't say that that's your land?
Alexis:
Yeah, the underground thing is interesting.
Charlotte:
Concrete as well.
Alexis:
Mhm.
Annie:
What's happening under New Zealand? I have never even thought about this. There's probably volcanic activity. Maybe there are weird reservoirs. I don't even know. Maybe, there's a secret club down there.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
"What's happening under New Zealand?" is a very good question there, Annie.
Annie:
Oh, now I'm imagining a club. Okay.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Charlotte:
I'm thinking of all the little animal burrows as they come around.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Charlotte:
They're doing the club. They're having a little party at the concrete wall.
Tom:
There's just one very disappointed mole who's been digging that way for one— "Doonk! Doonk! Doonk!"
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Sorry. Need to remember. Do not make jokes like that in my authoritative, factual voice. It doesn't, doesn't work.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Annie:
Well, Tom Scott said there's a single kiwi mole.
Alexis:
Right!
Annie:
(giggles)
Alexis:
So I know very little about New Zealand. But I live in a corner of the world where everything underground is a mine. Is there mining in that region of New Zealand?
Tom:
No, I think, Annie was certainly closer with volcanoes. Not that close, but certainly closer.
Annie:
Okay, so I'm not close, but closer and I will take it.
Alexis:
(giggles)
Annie:
What's like a volcano?
Alexis:
Lava tube?
Charlotte:
Mineral degradation?
Alexis:
(laughs)
Charlotte:
Why did he build three-quarters of underground anyway?
Tom:
Mhm.
Alexis:
Mhm.
Charlotte:
What's the point? What was the point of this wall?
Annie:
Did he expect it to erode? And then it would all erode away or something?
Tom:
Erode isn't the right word, but yes, that was kind of the point of it. We are in a remote, mountainous setting here.
Alexis:
So I'm wondering what it's indicative of. If it signals some kind of change that would be happening underground? Like it's a measurement tool of— in some way?
Annie:
We're measuring...
Charlotte:
Is it to measure the fertility of the ground? Like how good it could be for growing vegetables or...
Tom:
No, I'd say you're still closer with volcanoes and things like that. New Zealand is—
Alexis:
Is there a tectonic plate boundary in New Zealand?
Tom:
Yes, there is.
SFX:
(guests gasping)
Annie:
This is so exciting. Okay.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Annie:
Wow.
Charlotte:
It's a timer for measuring when the next earthquake will hit.
Tom:
That's very close, Charlotte.
Alexis:
Oh?
Charlotte:
Oh, if the wall— Maybe it was built at the boundary, and if the wall was to crumble, it would indicate that there was a lot of tectonic movement, which indicates that an earthquake is imminent, or a large one, a scale.
Annie:
But this guy's disappointed that it still exists. Maybe he just wants the world— He wants the world to be destroyed.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Charlotte:
Maybe he wasn't expecting it to be so soon, and then in the next day, an earthquake was coming.
Tom:
You've got most of this.
This is Frank Evison, a geophysicist who commissioned a building of a concrete wall across the Alpine Fault, which is the boundary between the Pacific and Australian tectonic plates. You've got that...
But you're right, he's a geophysicist. He doesn't want to— He's not trying to bring on an earthquake here. So why is he disappointed that it's still standing?
Charlotte:
Was he predicting that an earthquake was going to come within the next year, for example, as a geophysicist? And then a year had passed, and... it turned out that it was still standing? So he was wrong on his prediction, but he wanted to prove that he was going to be right?
Tom:
He was testing a theory. Or at least, trying to provide data.
Alexis:
Did you say what timeframe this was, Tom?
Tom:
1964.
Annie:
So this is right when they found out about tectonics? Well, I mean—
Tom:
It is. It's amazing how late the world found out about tectonics, right?
Alexis:
Yeah, right?
Annie:
The earthquakes were— Huge earthquakes were happening, and they were like, "Oh, I wonder why."
The Richter— I don't have the exact quote, but the Richter guy from the Richter scale, he has all these really snarky quotes about like, "Stop trying to predict when it's gonna happen. We barely even know what tectonics are."
Alexis:
Oh?
Annie:
"Just focus on the basics."
Alexis:
Oh?
Tom:
Yeah.
Annie:
But if I had the exact quote, it would be a lot easier because it was— I remember it being kind of profane.
Tom:
You've hit a key point there, Annie, which is that this was the very early days of figuring out that there were tectonic plates, and they moved like this. So why might you build a wall across a fault in 1964?
Annie:
Did they think that these things were really trucking along? And, it's like, oh boy. They actually move so subtly that it's hard to measure.
Tom:
(grumbles) So close! Really, really close! I think the key phrase there, Annie, is "move so suddenly".
Alexis:
Mm.
Tom:
What might he have been trying to figure out?
Alexis:
Is it just as simple as, he was trying to figure out what the speed was?
Tom:
Yes.
Alexis:
Oh?
Tom:
Yes, he was.
Annie:
Oh.
Alexis:
Oh.
Tom:
The intention of the wall was to shear at that junction, so they can figure out visibly, obviously, how fast do these plates move? So why would he be disappointed that it's still standing?
Annie:
Because they move really slowly.
Alexis:
Oh yeah.
Annie:
But they still have big effects.
Tom:
Mmmh... gah... Well, the trouble is they don't always move really slowly.
Annie:
Oh, okay. Well, I don't know. In my head they do. That's the stereotype, I guess.
Tom:
But I mean, why do we have earthquakes? What is an earthquake?
Alexis:
Yeah, it's just sudden movement on a fault.
Tom:
Keep going, Alexis.
Alexis:
Okay. Sudden movement on a fault. One side shifts dramatically compared to the other.
Tom:
Yep.
Alexis:
Where does the wall come into that?
Tom:
You know what? I'm gonna give you that. It is, you talked about sudden movements. So this is a wall built across a fault line designed to measure how much the plates are moving over time, and eventually the wall will shear, and it'll be obvious, and you can measure it. He would be disappointed, were he still alive, because that fault has not shifted at all, because that is not how faults move. Faults move very suddenly, causing earthquakes. At some point, yeah, that wall's getting torn down. But it hasn't happened since 1964, because that fault hasn't moved in that direction.
Alexis:
Ohhh, okay. That makes sense.
Tom:
This is Frank Evison, a geophysicist. Built the wall with the intention to shear it at that junction. But the wall remains resolutely straight. But they did learn that the tectonic plates move in large jumps rather than a slow, gradual creep.
Alexis:
Hmm. Cool.
Tom:
Charlotte, whenever you're ready.
Charlotte:
Okay.
This question has been sent in by Elliot.
Between 1980 and 1986, annual motorcycle thefts in West Germany fell from around 150,000 to 50,000. Policymakers were surprised, but delighted. What caused the drop?
And one more time.
Between 1980 and 1986, annual motorcycle thefts in West Germany fell from around 150,000 to 50,000. Policymakers were surprised, but delighted. What caused the drop?
Annie:
Well, my first thought when I think about Germany and anything that moves is the Autobahn.
Tom:
Yeah.
Annie:
Maybe that opened, and everyone was like, "Well, we can just cruise in our cars."
Alexis:
(chuckles)
Annie:
I'm just gonna say where it's Mercedes-Benz.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
That's such a decrease though. That's two-thirds of motorcycle thefts not happening.
My first thought is that it's a reporting error, Like anything like this, oh... has crime actually gone up, or are people just reporting more crimes? Are motorcycles actually being stolen less, or are people just not believing that their motorcycle is worth reporting anymore? Like, it won't get solved?
But two-thirds!
Charlotte:
I will say it is the actual number of motorcycle thefts that decreases.
Annie:
That— See— I don't know number, but that seems like a lot of thefts before.
Alexis:
Yeah. Is there something special about West German motorcycles from this time period? Did they become more available, so people didn't need to steal as many of them?
Tom:
1980 to 1986? I can't think of anything that was happening in West Germany about then that wasn't also happening earlier or later.
When did the Berlin Wall go up?
Annie:
Go up?
Alexis:
Or down?
Annie:
Well, it was down in '89, right?
Alexis:
Okay.
Tom:
Yeah, so it was up well before then.
Alexis:
Mhm.
Annie:
Did they open a motorcycle factory in East Germany, and so the people were no longer sneaking out to steal—
Charlotte:
The competitors?
Tom:
Well, that's the thing. If you want to cut off crime like that, removing the economic reason for it...
Alexis:
Mhm.
Tom:
is often a really good way of doing it. Like... try and cut it off at the source rather than... (cracks up) rather than what— the end result that people are stealing motorbikes because it's really profitable to steal motorbikes. Or really easy to steal motorbikes.
Alexis:
Oh? Yeah, I was thinking about the "policy makers were surprised, but delighted" bit. I was like, well, what did they do that turned out better than expected?
Tom:
What's the new rule?
Charlotte:
'Easy' is definitely more on the hot side.
Tom:
So why did it suddenly become more difficult to steal motorbikes in the '80s?
Annie:
Hmm.
Charlotte:
And I will say zoning in on the policy makers is a good idea.
Tom:
Did they just require registration of motorbikes? Was it just that in 19— in 1980-whatever, spreading through Germany, they just required motorbikes to suddenly have a registration number or something? And now, you can track them after they've been stolen?
Charlotte:
It's not that, but... there was a requirement of something.
Alexis:
Oh
Annie:
Licenses? A motorbike license?
Charlotte:
I'm hoping anyone that's driving a motorbike already has—
Annie:
Helmets?
Charlotte:
Helmets?
Alexis:
I was gonna say. Yeah, did they just... You have to wear helmets now, and it's less cool to steal a motorbike?
SFX:
(guests cackling)
Tom:
No!
Charlotte:
You— okay. That is correct, Alexis.
Annie:
What?!
Alexis:
What?!
Charlotte:
There is a law— There was a new law introduced for helmets.
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
Charlotte:
But why, why— It's not that it made it look less cool, but why would that make it... why would that make the drop from 150,000 to 50,000?
Alexis:
Oh, visibility of faces.
Tom:
If you're going out to steal a motorbike, you've gotta take a helmet with you, or the police are going to stop you on your motorbike that you're— you've stolen without a helmet.
Charlotte:
That's it. That's it, Tom.
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Charlotte:
That's exactly it.
Tom:
Brilliant.
Charlotte:
So in the 1980s, West Germany, motorcycle thefts were often committed by opportunists. People who saw a bike unattended, jumped on and then rode off. But when the government introduced mandatory helmet laws, these casual thieves suddenly faced a practical barrier. Riding bareheaded was illegal, conspicuous, and dangerous.
Furthermore, they were unlikely to be carrying a helmet when the opportunity arose. The number of spur-of-the-moment thefts collapsed as a result.
Tom:
That's lovely.
Annie:
Wow.
Alexis:
(laughs)
Annie:
That's why I take a helmet everywhere I go, because if the opportunity strikes, I will be stealing.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Which brings us to the question from the very start of the show.
What type of workers are named after the mercenary knights who toured Europe after the Crusades?
I'll give the audience the answer in just a moment, but before I do, does anyone wanna take a quick shot at that?
Annie:
I've heard this fun fact before, and I remember it was really fun, and I can't remember it.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Annie:
So I'm so excited.
Alexis:
My only guess is that it's related to bees or ants.
Tom:
Why do you think that?
Alexis:
Worker bees?
Tom:
Ah.
Alexis:
(wheezes)
Tom:
No, unfortunately, but these were mercenaries available for hire.
Alexis:
Ah.
Tom:
Technically this word still counts as mercenaries available for hire. It's just, the industries are very different now.
Charlotte:
Assassins.
Alexis:
Is this where freelancers comes from?
Tom:
Yes, it is!
Alexis:
(laughs)
Tom:
Why might that be the case?
Alexis:
All I can tell you is I got free plus lance.
Tom:
Which is where the word comes from, yes.
Freelancers were originally "Free Lances" – mercenary knights – whose lances, whose weapons and military services, were available to hire by any lord who would pay them.
The term was popularised by Sir Walter Scott in his 1819 novel Ivanhoe, where he writes, "I offered Richard the service of my Free Lances" – L-A-N-C-E-S – "and he refused them." And yes, it became a military term, then it became a metaphor, and now we have freelance designers and freelance developers, who honestly would be so much more cool if they had weapons.
Thank you very much to all of our players. Where can people find you? What's going on in your lives?
We will start with Alexis.
Alexis:
Yeah, you can find me at youtube.com/alexisdahl or on Instagram at alexis.writes.
Tom:
And that is D-A-H-L?
Alexis:
Yes, yep.
Tom:
Charlotte.
Charlotte:
You can find me on Instagram at mikichar.
Tom:
And that is C— And that is M— You know what? I'll ask you to spell that one.
Charlotte:
M-I-K-I-C-H-A-R.
Tom:
And Annie.
Annie:
Hi, I'm on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, X sometimes, Depths of Wikipedia.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are full video shows every week on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Annie Rauwerda.
Annie:
Yay, thanks.
Tom:
Charlotte Yeung.
Charlotte:
Thank you!
Tom:
Alexis Dahl!
Alexis:
Thanks!
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Elliot, Calum, Emily, Conor Slevin, Fearghal McGuinness |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |