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Episode 172: A full glass of milk
23rd January, 2026 • Iszi Lawrence, Abby Cox and Matt Gray face questions about rhythmic rumbles, solo Soviets and nonsense navigation.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Why was Sergei Krikalev described as "the last Soviet citizen"?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
In the ancient times, before the dawn of group chats, there were three heroes fated to gather around a glowing orb of power: the USB-C ring light.
Legends foretold they would embark on a noble quest to answer the riddles of a mysterious spirit, armed only with their wits and whatever fun facts they googled on the way there. Now, the prophecy is finally fulfilled, and the heroes stand ready. Behold, our three valiant guests!
Verily we have the fair Iszi Lawrence from the Terrible Lizards podcast, from the Talk Like an Egyptian podcast, from the new book Domesday Cows, and also with the greatest lighting I've ever seen on a video call. Iszi, welcome back to the show.
Iszi:
I also have worked out how to buy cheap lighting from TikTok.
Tom:
(cackles)
Matt:
Oaah.
Iszi:
Other bad shops are available.
Tom:
You have so many colours going on there. There is pink, there is blue, there is white.
Iszi:
I am a very pale woman. I need as much help as I can get.
Tom:
Tell us about the book. That's the thing that you were most excited about when we chatted before the show.
Iszi:
Well, indeed. Well, it came out the beginning of the month, so it came out in the 1st of January.
It is a children's book, but let's face it, all that means is there's no kissing in it. There's lots of adventures though. Basically I write historically accurate children's novels, so this is as good as you can get.
It's set in 1086, as we know, that's [when] the Domesday Book was written. It's set in Chester. It's about a load of cows and a girl hiding them from the Normans.
So if that tickles your fancy, and what doesn't?
SFX:
(others crack up)
Iszi:
What do kids like more than cows and qualitative surveys? That is what we want.
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
And I tell you what, there aren't enough people called Norman these days either.
Iszi:
That is true. There aren't, there aren't. So yes, if you like your historical fiction accurate and for small people, The Domesday Cows is out with Bloomsbury Education.
Tom:
Good plug, solid work there.
Next on our quest, we doth honour... Matt Gray... who when asked how to be introduced, simply said, "...YouTube."
Matt, welcome back to the show.
Matt:
Hellooo. Thank you for having me back.
Tom:
Always good to see ye. You have a Mac behind you that is weird.
Abby:
Ooh.
Matt:
(chuckles) I took a iMac G3 from 2000... 'cause it looks really cool, and it's got the cool CRT, and it's an all-in-one thing, but it is a useless computer these days, 'cause it's 25 years old. So I gutted it, and I put a modern, fast, speedy gaming-capable Mac inside it – but left the original CRT screen.
Which means it's even more gaming capable, 'cause it doesn't have to do a big screen output. It does it low resolution. (laughs)
Tom:
Abby, who I was gonna introduce properly in a moment, you look so excited by that.
Abby:
I am. That's just really neat. (laughs uproariously)
Matt:
I'd offer to make you one, but it did take me five months, so...
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
What?
Abby:
It's okay. And I don't wanna deal with the tariffs.
SFX:
(Abby and Matt laugh)
Abby:
Thank you, though.
Tom:
Well behold, for we lay down our swords, before the great Abby Cox, who, when asked how to be introduced, said, quote, "Don't ask me hard questions."
(laughs) Abby, what are you working on at the moment?
Abby:
(cackles out of breath) Well, like every other time I've been on this show, Tom, I'm still writing my book.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Abby:
I'm still just doing my best. Iszi! (tuts repeatedly)
Iszi:
I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying. I've had three books out since we first recorded.
Tom:
(wheezes) Abby, what is the book you're working on?
Abby:
So it's about the history of corsets, but it's told through the lens of the lived female experience, but also using popular media and magazines and books that were written for women by women. So it's basically removing... men from the conversation and actually trying to understand what's going on with corsets.
Iszi:
(snickers)
Abby:
You know, by those who actually wore them.
Matt:
(laughs)
Abby:
You know, shocking. I know. And then all of the twists and turns that have come up as each— every chapter I write, I go, "Oh, this chapter's gonna be really straightforward. It's, you know, nothing too weird or complicated." And then I go, "Oh, oh, no. Oh no. Oh, this is bad."
Tom:
I would comment on that, but I have been removed from the conversation.
Abby:
You're— I— You're welcome to come back in, Tom.
Tom:
(laughs)
Abby:
I have opened the door for you. Come back in.
Matt:
I have to say between everyone on this call, I think you have all written more books than I've read
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
since we were last together on this. (laughs)
Tom:
Well, good luck to all three of you on the show today.
Our journey begins, as all great quests should, with a cryptic message. Let the fellowship of puzzledom approach question one.
Thank you to Daniel Bohrer for this question.
John Paul I was elected Pope in 1978. What two features were groundbreaking about that name?
I'll say that again.
John Paul I was elected Pope in 1978. What two features were groundbreaking about this name?
Iszi:
Okay. Who knows their Pope names?
Matt:
Just a sec. Did they call him the first?
Abby:
I was gonna say, isn't he the second?
Iszi:
Maybe he's the first one to become Pope after the Beatles, and yet use their names.
SFX:
(Tom and Matt laugh)
Iszi:
It's gonna be my brilliant—
Abby:
I glad someone made a Beatles joke. I was like, so there's gonna be a Beatles joke in here somewhere. Where's it gonna go?
Iszi:
It has to go –
Abby:
– right at the beginning. I love that for us.
Matt:
But why would you call him 'the first' if he was the first? Normally you don't number until there's been another. You don't get... I don't know. King Henry I won't have been called 'the first' when he was the first, would he?
Abby:
I thought he was the second.
Iszi:
I mean, obviously, I wouldn't be surprised if you would be called 'the first', because you are the first one to be called— That doesn't strike me as odd. But now you're saying it, I'm thinking... Elizabeth was the first, wasn't called Elizabeth I during her reign.
Matt:
No, she was just called Elizabeth, and then—
Iszi:
Yeah. Or good Queen Bess.
Matt:
You only need to disambiguate when there's ambiguity, and if you're the first—
Iszi:
Well please put me out. I'm only a Catholic.
Matt:
(giggles)
Abby:
(blurts chuckle)
Iszi:
But yeah, no, I don't— Is that a weird thing? Maybe that's one of the weird— two weird things then.
Matt:
Unless they count from zero.
Tom:
It is— Oh G—! A zero-indexed Pope.
Matt:
A zero-indexed Pope.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Pope Ringo the Zeroth, yeah.
Matt:
(giggles)
Iszi:
That must have been Paul, surely. He must have been Pope Zero.
Tom:
Oh I— (cracks up) Pope Zero sounds like a Catholic sugar-free drink.
Matt:
(laughs)
Iszi:
It does. Diet Pope as well.
Abby:
It's the holy water. You just— it's sugar free.
Iszi:
Diet Pope's more for the girls and Pope Zero for the boys.
Tom:
Yes, yeah.
Abby:
Yes.
Tom:
Matt, you have got one of the groundbreaking features.
Matt:
What?
Tom:
John Paul I was called 'the First'.
Abby:
Who's John Paul II? I'm confused now! (laughs)
Matt:
I'm both intrigued as to the why, and also... this is continuing my streak of making a joke and getting it right.
SFX:
(Tom and Abby laugh)
Matt:
Also, Abby. Abby, yes. If there's a second, there will be a second. But that implies there was a first.
Abby:
I know, but I thought his name was John Paul II. That's why I'm confused! People right now are either in the comments of YouTube or TikTok being like, "Abby's so stupid." And you know what guys? You're right. (chuckles)
Matt:
Were you thinking the "II" was part of his name?
Abby:
No, I just thought that there was— that our Polish John Paul Pope, who, you know, Popemobile, we love him, you know, all that jazz, before we had the German Pope, and then Francis, and now we have the Chicago Pope...
Tom:
Which sounds like a TV show.
Abby:
Well, it probably will be at some point.
Tom:
It actually was. It was Chicago Hope, and it was about a hospital, wasn't it? That's why I brain fired off that.
Matt:
(guffaws)
Abby:
Chicago Hope, Chicago Pope. It's fine. So no, I'm just generally confused, but—
Matt:
But this was 1978, so I'm assuming this was the John Paul before the most recent John Paul.
Iszi:
Yeah, it must be. 'Cause there was definitely one before that, surely.
Matt:
And 'cause this guy's called the first, and the most recent one was called the second.
Iszi:
Is he the first one with a Popemobile?
Tom:
I'm gonna put you all out of your confusion and misery here. John Paul I was elected Pope in 1978. He died after 33 days in office.
Iszi:
Oh wow! That's—
Abby:
And so that's why I was confused.
Tom:
And his successor was Pope John Paul II, which is the one that I think everyone here is gonna recognise from—
Matt:
Ahhh, JP Two.
Abby:
I am not a terrible Catholic.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
So did they know? Did they elect him knowing that, "Oh, he's on his way out, so we'll elect him John Paul I, and then John Paul II can come next"?
Tom:
It's claimed that at the time, he was just not aware that including 'I' was unusual. Because the predecessors all had numbers. And he was the first John Paul.
So he just, "Yeah, I'll be John Paul I." He just—
Iszi:
Okay.
Matt:
You get to pick your name as Pope, don't you? Because the current Pope isn't called, I dunno, Jeff Chicago, whatever he was called before now.
Iszi:
You do as king as well. You know, you get to pick your name.
'Cause everybody was saying that Charles III wouldn't be called Charles III because of what happened to Charles I and...
Tom:
Mhm.
Iszi:
But he went with it.
Abby:
But I mean, at least Charles II was like jazzy.
Iszi:
I mean...
SFX:
(scattered snickering)
Abby:
Full of diseases, but...
Tom:
You've identified one of the two strange things. Actually, I think the more difficult thing to point out there.
Iszi:
Okay.
Tom:
What might be the other strange thing about John Paul I's name?
Matt:
My thought was, you said groundbreaking, and I— Popes kiss the ground or something like that, but you just implied that it was actually his name that was the—
Tom:
It is actually the name, yeah.
Iszi:
So the name is groundbreaking. Did they— nobody double-barrel their name before him?
Tom:
Nobody double-barreled their name before him. He was the first— Well, it's not got a hyphen. But he was the first Pope to have two names.
Iszi:
There you go. And ironically, an extra bit where— the third bit, which was called 'the first'.
Tom:
Yeah.
Iszi:
So technically he had three names, if that's not what 'the first' usually does.
Tom:
(laughs) Oh yeah. It was just "John Paul Thefirst", yeah.
Iszi:
Yeah.
Tom:
Just to confuse matters.
Matt:
Well that's— Having a middle name's a Roman thing as well, isn't it?
Tom:
I don't know?
Iszi:
They certainly mixed up their names a lot, the Romans. So they added bits. Like, Julius Caesar wasn't called Julius Caesar, for example, which is just annoying.
Matt:
Jizzle-Sizzle to his friends.
Iszi:
Yeah, Jezza.
SFX:
(group snickering)
Tom:
Yeah, Pope John Paul I chose his name in honour of his two predecessors, John XXIII and Paul VI.
Matt:
23rd?
Tom:
23rd! There's a lot of Pope Johns.
Iszi:
He is claiming that that is for his benefit. That is not for his benefit. He wanted to be number one, didn't he?
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
Yes!
Iszi:
And he wasn't gonna be number 24 or number seven. That's rubbish! So he wanted to be number one. That's why he did it.
Abby:
And then he was like, "I'm gonna die now. I've made my impact."
Iszi:
Boom.
Tom:
So yes, he was the first Pope to have a double name, and the first Pope to be called 'the first'.
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We'll start today with Iszi. Whenever you're ready, please.
Iszi:
Okay, here we go.
This question has been sent in by Sid.
The Parsis fled to India around 900 CE to escape religious persecution. According to legend, the king sent out a full glass of milk when they approached Sarjan city. Why did he do this, and why was he impressed when they sent it back with an addition?
So, I'll say it again.
The Parsis fled to India around 900 CE to escape religious persecution. According to legend, the king sent out a full glass of milk when they approached Sarjan city. Why did he do this, and why was he impressed when they sent it back with an addition?
Go.
Abby:
They were thirsty.
Tom:
This feels like something from one of your books, Iszi. I feel like this is—
Abby:
Yeah, I was like—
Matt:
Yeah.
Abby:
I feel like Dave was like, "I'm gonna give everyone questions that fit their niche."
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
Sid and I are kindred spirits evidently, so.
Tom:
Okay.
Matt:
I'm gonna have to start with a question, at least for the team, which is "the Parsis fled". Now, is that like the family Parsi, like Jeff and Sunita Parsi and their three kids?
Tom:
(snickers)
Matt:
Or is it like a whole race? (giggles)
Tom:
What scale are we going with, on group, here?
Iszi:
There was— They were— I dunno exactly how many, but they were a people. So refugees effectively.
Matt:
Okay. (laughs)
Tom:
Okay, hear me out.
It's an absolutely full to the brim glass of milk. They managed to get it there without spilling any. And then it got sent back with even a little bit more. So it was kind of like surface tension over the top.
Iszi:
That is basically how the legend goes.
Tom:
Wait, what? I was doing that as a joke. It was literally that full?
Iszi:
Yeah, it was full to the brim.
Tom:
Oh?
Matt:
Oh?
Tom:
Oh, okay. And they sent it back with even more in there?
Iszi:
They...
Tom:
They added something.
Iszi:
I've gotta be very careful of how I said that. They did send it back with an addition.
Matt:
They emptied it out, and they filled it with condensed milk. So then there was more milk per unit milk? (giggles)
Iszi:
They sent it back with an addition.
Matt:
Yo dawg, I heard you like milk in your milk. So I put some extra milk in your milk.
Abby:
No, they added chocolate to it. So it was chocolate milk.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
(widens eyes)
Tom:
Did anyone see that unhinged YouT— unhinged, complimentary...
Matt:
(laughs)
Tom:
video of someone who – she cured her lactose intolerance by drinking all the lactose.
Matt:
Oh my god, I saw this.
Iszi:
That is dangerous.
Tom:
I mean, not recommended medically, but apparently over the course of three weeks, got most of her nutrition by... making up powdered milk with milk, so it was very thick, and simply drinking so much of that, that the bacteria balance changed, and after three very bad weeks, was—
When you said more milk in your milk, that just— there were some descriptions in that video that I do not want to go back to.
Iszi:
I will say this to help you along. That isn't what happened.
Matt:
(laughs)
Iszi:
And nobody in the story as far as I'm aware is lactose intolerant.
Tom:
Okay.
Iszi:
However, however, the king wasn't being as kind as he appeared.
Tom:
Ah?
Matt:
Ah.
Tom:
Okay. And it was the king who sent out the milk, right?
Iszi:
It was the king who sent out the milk.
Tom:
Okay.
Iszi:
Abby's said something, which is quite close to the additional thing.
Abby:
Oh, so another joke actually has led us closer to—
Iszi:
Yeah, so far you're just getting this through gags. (giggles)
Abby:
Yeah.
Matt:
Abby said chocolate milk.
Abby:
Yeah.
Iszi:
She did say chocolate milk. It wasn't chocolate milk, but think along those lines.
Matt:
Banana flavour?
Abby:
Wait, was this chai?!
Iszi:
It wasn't chai.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Matt:
Awh.
Abby:
Okay. I was like, was this the beginning of chai?
Matt:
Chai latte.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Okay, okay. Hold on. If you're fleeing... If you're abso— If you're fleeing, and you're desperate...
Iszi:
Mm.
Tom:
You're saying, by sending out that milk, "We still have lots of supplies."
Iszi:
No, no other way round.
Tom:
Oh?
Iszi:
So they're arriving
Tom:
Oh, right.
Iszi:
to the city, and the king's like, "Oh, you're here. Have this very, very full glass of milk."
Tom:
Oh, I had that completely the wrong way 'round. Okay.
Abby:
Does it have to do— Okay, so they fled for religious reasons, correct?
Iszi:
That is, it's to escape religious persecution.
Abby:
And you said, what, 900 AD?
Iszi:
Yeah.
Abby:
Okay, so this is after Muhammad.
Iszi:
This is after Muhammad. But I have to say, I mean, you're fine as a Muslim drinking milk, as far as I'm aware.
Abby:
Well yeah, I was just wondering if it has to do with Hinduism.
Matt:
Yeah. They've got a whole cows thing going on, haven't they?
Iszi:
They do have a whole cows thing.
Matt:
(laughs)
Tom:
They have a whole cows thing going on!
Abby:
A whole cow thing happening.
Iszi:
As far as I'm aware, this is nothing to do with religious... It's not rude for either party to consume milk.
Tom:
I'm gonna have the same guess 'round the other way, which is they send out the milk, and it's sent back as a "No, we don't need it. We are wealthy, we are fine, we— Please admit us into your place because we are... We are not starving. We are not needy."
Iszi:
But why would he send out milk?
Matt:
I have two trains of thought.
The first one is, just a sec, if you are needy and you're— If you've been very hungry for a long amount of time, milk might do bad things to your insides because there's quite a lot going on there. But I'd like— I can't see how that's relevant.
The other thing I'm thinking of is the king might have put some poison or something in it to, which might also... you know, deal with your insides a little bit too much. And maybe there's a way of testing for that with salt or sugar or something.
Abby:
If you're slowly moving a thing of full milk, if it's full to the brim, you cannot move quickly, right? Like, that's wait staff 101. It's not pasteurized milk, whatever it is. So it is... (retches)
Tom:
(snickers)
Abby:
You know.
Tom:
Technical term.
Iszi:
(cracks up profusely)
Abby:
Yeah, we all can just fill in the blank there.
So it would be a risk to drink it, because it's not pasteurized, it's not fresh. Because it's— it can't be that fresh if he's sending out a very full glass of milk. That means it has to be taken out very, very slowly.
Iszi:
I mean, I don't think they're that far from the city that they're trying to get in. So, and he sends about a full glass of milk. I want you to think of this milk maybe as a metaphor.
Tom:
(chuckles anxiously)
Iszi:
(snickers)
Abby:
Inn's full, like, sorry, we have too many cows.
Iszi:
Oh, what did you say?
Abby:
Inn's full. The city's full.
Iszi:
That's the metaphor.
Abby:
Okay, okay. So the milk is because there's too many people in the city, and he's like, "I got too many cows and too many people in the city." And they go, "Hey guy, don't— Relax, it's okay. Look what we can offer to your milk." And then they send back this thing, and maybe it's a bigger pitcher for the milk, or, I don't know. It's a thing.
Tom:
It's sweetened.
Abby:
Sugar.
Iszi:
Boom! She got it. And for precisely that reason.
So the Indian king Jadhav Rana welcomed the arriving Parsis with a full glass of milk to communicate that his land was already full to the brim, and there was no room for anyone else.
And the Parsis responded by mixing sugar in the milk and returning it to say that they would assimilate with the local population like sugar dissolves in milk, and that their contributions would make life sweeter.
It is said that this impressed the king enough to grant them asylum.
And there is a thriving Parsi community in India today.
The parents of Freddie Mercury of rock band Queen were Parsi. So there you go.
Matt:
Farrokh Bulsara.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Abby:
"Of the rock band Queen."
SFX:
(Abby and Tom laugh)
Tom:
Of the popular beat combo Queen.
SFX:
(Matt and Abby laugh)
Iszi:
I dunno if you've heard of them, guys. They're very new.
SFX:
(guessers giggling)
Iszi:
But yeah, no, but I was impressed there. You got it, both Abby and Scott together. That was— Sorry, Tom, Scott.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Abby:
Scott.
Tom:
That's okay, Lawrence(!)
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Iszi:
Apologies for that, but yes. Abby and Tom were bang on there.
But you know, Matt had a lot to say.
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom:
Thank you to Natalie for this next question.
In 1958, guitarist Link Wray released the instrumental track "Rumble". Even though it had no lyrics at all, several radio stations banned it for being too offensive. Why?
I'll give you that one more time.
In 1958, guitarist Link Wray released the instrumental track "Rumble". Even though it had no lyrics at all, several radio stations banned it for being too offensive. Why?
Abby:
'Cause it sounded like farts.
SFX:
(Tom and Iszi laugh)
Iszi:
Farts aren't offensive. They're just fun. Is it because—
Abby:
In the 1950s, they were offensive.
Iszi:
Nah. I mean...
Abby:
On the radio?
Iszi:
(short pbbt)
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
(long thrrp)
Iszi:
I think it's because maybe there is a song, 'cause you know, the 1950s are full of filthy songs. And maybe there is a song, and it's just that song without the lyrics. So everybody heard all of the expletives in their head while they played this anyway.
Matt:
It's the Soviet national anthem.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Matt:
Which to be fair is an absolute banger.
Iszi:
Banger, yeah.
Tom:
(laughs) Iszi, you used your authoritative historical voice there to just say the 1950s were full of filthy songs. I just wanna check whether that was true or not.
Iszi:
I believe it probably was true, but they weren't broadcast because, you know.
Tom:
Ah, yeah.
Iszi:
I mean, the thing is, there was in this country and certainly there was the Chancellor, I can't remember who it would've been, the Chamberlain, something like Chancellor or Chamberlain or something where every single play that was— or put out in theatre had to be looked at by the government to make sure it was appropriate and...
As a result, this is why you have, you know, Peter Cook starting up his members club and everything else, where we get modern stand-up in the UK from, really. But yeah, and so the way around that was to be as filthy as possible, but get away with it by it being really clean.
So, for example, I think Marie Lloyd back in the late 19th century got taken to court loads because she would sing things really filthily in the musical, but then speak them perfectly— "Oh, I sit among the cabbages and leeks," you know, in the thing. Whereas there, she was basically implying that she was having wees in people's allotments.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Iszi:
But, yeah. So, so there is that tradition in this country of being filthy without being filthy. So was this a song that was filthy without being filthy? It's not. I mean, it's "Rumble". It's not, you know... Who am I thinking of?
Matt:
I play guitar, but I've never heard of Link Wray before. Playing the guitar doesn't necessarily mean I've heard of them all.
Iszi:
Mm.
Abby:
Can— Tom, can we have a geographic location of where this song was banned? Was it a UK thing or a US thing?
Tom:
This was in the US.
Iszi:
Okay.
Matt:
The thing I'm thinking of here is...
Abby:
Still censored.
Matt:
It could be... musical. This is a bit late, and I'm— Jimi Hendrix was around in the '50s, wasn't he? Or was he '60s?
Abby:
He said '59, right?
Iszi:
'58.
Matt:
'Cause the only offensive thing I can think of, musically from a theory standpoint is the devil's interval. But you wouldn't call that offensive. You'd just say it doesn't sound very nice. 'Cause it's just very clashing.
Tom:
Perhaps the phrasing could be better on 'too offensive'. 'Offensive' may not be the right word. Banned for...
Iszi:
Being too catchy! (snaps fingers) Gets in everyone's heads, drives them mad.
Abby:
Is it the first electric guitar sound on the radio?
Tom:
It was definitely a modern sound. Yes, and that's key to it.
Matt:
Distortion then, maybe.
Tom:
Perhaps rather than too offensive, let's go for too objectionable.
Matt:
Objectionable? Then, it's going to be, so using guitar techniques such as distortion
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
or pinch harmonics and
Tom:
Yep.
Matt:
squealy noises and...
Tom:
Yep. It's gritty and distorted. Absolutely right.
Iszi:
(hums guitar riff)
Abby:
We did it.
Iszi:
And is that the reason?
Tom:
That's half of the reason.
Abby:
Oh.
Matt:
Oh, is it the title of the track?
Tom:
Keep talking, Matt.
Matt:
No, "Rumble". We've just been told the title was "Rumble", but...
Iszi:
Yeah.
Matt:
Wait, was it like a...
Iszi:
A euphemism for...
Matt:
Yeah. Is it like onomatopoeic guitar playing, where it's— But it's called "Rumble", but it sounds like someone having sex.
Tom:
Ah, you—
Iszi:
But rock-and-roll, the word 'rock-and-roll' is 'having sex', so... That's what it comes from.
Tom:
That is—
Matt:
Really?
Iszi:
Rock-and-roll is about— is a euphemism for sex. So the fact it's called "Rumble" doesn't...
Tom:
Right on the euphemism part. Wrong on what it's a euphemism for. And this word is still used for that today.
Matt:
Have I made it to 40 without realizing that rock-and-roll meant sex?
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
PJ and Duncan! They had a whole thing.
Matt:
Let's get ready to rumble.
Iszi:
My hair has gone mad just thinking about it. Let's get ready to rumble.
Tom:
Right. And what does 'rumble' mean in that context? When Michael Buffer
Iszi:
Fight.
Matt:
Fight.
Tom:
says, "Let's get ready to rumble"...
Iszi:
Let's get ready to hit each other in the face!
Abby:
(hums "Get Ready for This")
Matt:
Wait, is it— Did they think it would incite violence?
Tom:
They thought it would incite violence!
Iszi:
(laughs)
Tom:
Yes, absolutely right. This was the same year that West Side Story was winning the Tonys. This was when gang violence was a story across America.
Matt:
Right.
Tom:
So when a song with distorted guitars, this new sound comes out, and it's called "Rumble"... some radio stations thought that it might glamourise gang culture or incite fights among teen-agers.
They had no lyrics to object to, but it was still offensive enough that it was banned.
Matt:
I like that guitar-based music has been stigmatised forever.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Matt:
(laughs)
Abby:
As the token American in this group, I'm tired,
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Matt, whenever you're ready, over to you for your question, please.
Matt:
Okey-dokey.
This question has been sent in by Hellen.
Amy navigates a space using letters A, F, P, and S. What is she doing, and where does this take place?
Amy navigates a space using the letters A, F, P, and S. What is she doing, and where does this take place?
Iszi:
How much do you bet that Amy is an anagram as well for AMY... Automated Monkey Yacht or some...
Tom:
Unfortunately, I gotta step outta this one.
Iszi:
Oh, do you know it?
Tom:
I don't know it. I'm pretty sure I just clocked it. So I'm gonna do the—
Matt:
Ah.
Tom:
I'm gonna do the risky thing of stepping back.
Iszi:
Has it got anything— before you go, has it anything to do with monkey yachts?
Matt:
I was about to say, were you the first person to invest in the Kickstarter?
Tom:
I'm deliberately not going to answer that question.
Iszi:
Okay. So it is to do with monkey yachts. You're very welcome.
Abby:
Perfect.
Iszi:
Yeah, great. So, it's navigating. Which is always a problem 'cause believe it or not, despite my history background, I don't have a history background. It's geography, and I should know stuff, but I don't. None of this looks like—
Abby:
Same.
Iszi:
I mean, GPS has got, you know, G. So we're at AFPS. It's just even better than GPS, 'cause it's 'as (pause) PS'.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Iszi:
So that must be even better than geographical.
Matt:
Oh yeah, AF. (laughs)
Tom:
It is positioning system AF, yeah.
Matt:
(giggles)
Iszi:
Yeah, yeah.
Abby:
I'm gonna just like— Okay, Iszi, you keep cooking, but I'm gonna throw out an answer.
Iszi:
Go on.
Abby:
Or just a concept of an idea.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Abby:
Does it have anything to do with gaming on your PC?
Matt:
Yes, it is in the world of gaming, Abby.
Iszi:
Ooh! I know nothing about games.
Abby:
I barely know anything too. I was just—
Iszi:
Yeah!
Tom:
Oh?! Oh, now I'm worried.
Iszi:
Oh, you— we've got Tom back in the game?
Tom:
Well, I don't know because if I say this, it matches so well, but I don't see how it could be related to video games or any sort of games.
Matt:
It's not necessarily video. And from the way I saw you react, Tom, you might be along the right lines. And Iszi, when you were talking about monkeys.
Tom:
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Iszi:
Okay.
Matt:
You were actually closer than you've been so far without realising it.
Iszi:
Okay. So I'm assuming Amy is a chimp. Because that's a sort of thing you'd named a chimp.
Matt:
This has nothing to do with monkeys.
Iszi:
Oh! You said monkeys!
Tom:
You said something else, Iszi.
Iszi:
I said monkey yacht.
Abby:
Is it steering a yacht?! Is it for steering a ship? Is it like a simulator for steering a ship?
Iszi:
Something like what, a boatswain's sort of like, one of those weird navigational devices whose names I always forget.
Abby:
Is it like NASA space camp in the '90s?
Tom:
A, F, P, S, right Matt?
Matt:
Yes. What on earth could they be?
Iszi:
Okay, so astral... Is the first one 'astral'? (laughs)
Matt:
It is not.
Tom:
'Cause the first thing my head did is like, you've got four letters there. Is that north, south, east, west in some language? It's not. And then my brain went clunk.
Iszi:
Okay.
Tom:
And then I stepped out.
Iszi:
It's not. It's not a clock. Oh see, this is too lateral for me. I'm thinking, no, why would you leave it anywhere else? it's not up, down, left, right.
Abby:
Wait, wait. It's— wait. Is it not like starboard?
Matt:
Yes.
Iszi:
Starboard's one of them.
Tom:
Port, starboard,
Iszi:
Port, starboard, okay.
Tom:
fore, and aft.
Iszi:
So... fore and aft.
Matt:
Bang on. We have aft, fore, port, and starboard. So what is Amy doing? Who would normally use these letters?
Tom:
I just wrote the word 'ship' down in big letters in the hope that that was the entire solution. If it's anything more than that, I'm in trouble.
Iszi:
So whoever is steering the ship isn't— probably the person looking out isn't the navigator. So whoever's doing, you know, either doing the sails, or doing...
Abby:
The wheel.
Iszi:
the rudder. Yeah, the wheel, which connects the rudder.
Matt:
So this is a game, so no actual ship is involved.
Tom:
Oh?
Iszi:
Is it just a game where you just have to maybe say, like starboard or port or like that, just to move the actual thing with your words?
Matt:
Yes. Yes.
Iszi:
Rather than— okay. So you just shout at the game like it's— it can hear you. So it's—
Matt:
It is a text-based adventure game
Iszi:
(gasps)
Matt:
set on a ship. Oh.
Iszi:
Nice.
Tom:
Is this Starship Titanic? Is this the old Douglas Adams one?
Matt:
It's very similar. And Douglas Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is mentioned here.
In most interactive fiction using text parsers, the convention is to move around the game using compass directions – north, east, south, west.
Games that are wholly or partially set on ships sometimes allow an alternative scheme using nautical directions. So A for aft – to the back of the ship, F for fore – to the front of the ship, P for port – to the left, S for starboard – to the right.
The online text adventure Firmament uses this system.
Infocom's version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy allows similar controls for its ship sections as well as standard compass directions.
Iszi:
What put me off was I was thinking bow and stern. So...
Tom:
Ah, yeah.
Iszi:
I have completely wrote it off immediately because I didn't think fore and aft. Who honestly does?
Tom:
And the reason that you use that is because ships can turn.
If you say north, north changes, depending on which— on global compass directions instead of local ones. So you go with port and starboard instead of left, right, anything like that. It's always relative to the ship. That's the reason you use port and starboard.
Matt:
Oh, 'cause yes, you wouldn't use left and right, because you dunno which way you're facing.
Tom:
Right?
Matt:
You're not strapped into a driving seat. (laughs)
Tom:
Left or right could mean left or right based on the shore, based on anything like that. Use port and starboard because they are always locked to the ship.
Thank you to Iiris for this question.
Jyrki is looking at a screen playing his synthesizer to a 2/4 rhythm. Sections above the keyboard are marked 'Poles', 'Group', and 'Frozen'. What is his surprising job?
I'll say that again.
Jyrki is looking at a screen playing his synthesizer to a 2/4 rhythm. Sections above the keyboard are marked 'Poles', 'Group', and 'Frozen'. What is his surprising job?
Iszi:
I love— All I know is... I mean, poles, group, and frozen could be exactly how we are right now.
I've sort of turned into a bean pole. You know, Matt's trying to assemble his thoughts into a group, and Abby has certainly frozen in place with a sort of horrified expression on her face.
Abby:
(cackles)
Iszi:
So... agh, yeah.
Abby:
Yeah.
Iszi:
2/4 rhythms. That's quite a simple rhythm, isn't it, Matt?
Matt:
Yeah. And I know this is—
Iszi:
Musician in the group.
Matt:
We've had two questions now that are music related, and I'm quite musical. I do quite a musical thing. And I have no idea for either of them from the off.
Iszi:
Okay.
Matt:
Synthesizers are normally computer-based or electronics-based. But 'Poles', 'Group', and 'Frozen' aren't related to synthesizers in any way I can think of.
Abby:
What if it has to do with the North Pole?
Matt:
Ooh.
Abby:
I— This is just dumb. 'Cause 'Frozen', my brain immediately went to Frozen, you know, 'let it go, let it go'. And I was like, wait.
Iszi:
There's group singing.
Matt:
And Jyrki sounds like a Nordic name.
Iszi:
It does.
Matt:
Or a Finnish name.
Tom:
It does.
Matt:
And a 2/4— 'Poles', 'Group', and 'Frozen'. Is this... Can't you go on holiday to like a Santa experience?
Iszi:
Yeah, you can. I think it's—
Matt:
In Lapland in Finland or Sweden.
Iszi:
So is this Jyrki, he's in charge of letting kids through to different sections of the park, where there's Santa. And so you have to— You've got the poles over in this, but you've got the frozen children. That's wrong.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Iszi:
(giggles) There's a group of children, I dunno.
Matt:
2/4 is a march!
Tom:
Yes.
Iszi:
Boom!
Tom:
That was the next thing I was gonna ask.
Matt:
Are they marching the children?
Tom:
Oh! No, no, okay, so—
Iszi:
(giggles)
Matt:
Is that where the elves come from?
Abby:
They're marching the children into the workhouse to make the toys.
Iszi:
(giggles profusely)
Tom:
Okay. So, so—
Abby:
That's where the bad children go!
Tom:
Good things you've worked out so far: 2/4 is a march, correct part of the world. The whole children and forced labour thing? No, that's not...
Abby:
(giggles)
Matt:
It's one of those Jet2holidays, where you think you're going for a good thing, but you end up working in the—
Abby:
Nothing beats a Jet2holiday.
SFX:
(Iszi and Matt laugh)
Iszi:
This is... Well, okay, so, so. 'Poles', 'Group' and 'Frozen', I mean, and a march. So what marches happen in Finland?
The only march I've been on recently, and it was weird, was like, I went to Rotterdam when Santa arrives. Or Sinterklaas, right?
And that is terrifying because he has all of his elves come off the boat first. 'Cause of course they come from this amazing country called Spain, right? So Santa Claus arrives from Spain with all the stuff to give to the kids, and they throw biscuits at you in the street.
Tom:
(giggles softly)
Iszi:
It's mental, right? They literally just chuck biscuits at your face, and you've gotta catch 'em in bags. But the—
Matt:
I'm just imagining Spanish Santa arriving in Rotterdam. "Hola! Buenos días!" (laughs)
Abby:
Oh, it's not Spanish Santa, it's... (grumbles)
Iszi:
It's very much, so he used to have his elves, which are now— they're called Zwarte Piet. And in the past, Schwaarze Péiter would be in full blackface.
Tom:
Yeah.
Iszi:
'Cos they were obviously, you know, this is pre- when, you know, everybody was fine with the transatlantic slave trade and everything else. And so that's where it comes from. It's worrying.
But now, they're not like that. So they don't do that anymore, which is a relief. Well done.
Tom:
(snickers)
Iszi:
Yes. I'm trying to think. Is it— Netherlands.
Tom:
Here, it's completely unrelated to that!
Iszi:
Okay, good.
Tom:
We've already established Finland.
Iszi:
Finland? Finland.
Tom:
Finland.
Iszi:
But they don't have a sort of similar Christmas thing.
Tom:
Nope. And you're right, we're up north. It's not like North Pole north, but we're up north.
Abby:
Does it have to do with... the sun and solstices?
Tom:
The words are 'Poles', 'Group', and 'Frozen'.
Iszi:
'Poles', 'Group', 'Frozen'.
Tom:
Poles is probably gonna be the biggest clue there.
Iszi:
So there's two poles. There's two poles. There's a South Pole as well. So are they dinged— Is it like there's a march that happens on the South Pole and the North Pole at the same time? Except nobody lives in the South Pole, so that—
Tom:
No, we're literally talking sticks.
Matt:
And people do live at the South Pole.
Iszi:
Yeah, but not right at the South Pole, do they?
Matt:
Yeah, there's an Arctic research base there.
Iszi:
They're nuts!
Matt:
Yeah, they don't go out in winter though.
Iszi:
Okay.
Matt:
(chuckles)
Iszi:
Or ever. That is nuts. I didn't realise they were that far south as it were. Anyway, sorry. Okay.
Matt:
There's— Oh, you said it was physical poles. I was gonna say 'cause there's true north and magnetic north, but that's nowhere near there.
Tom:
Nope, it's physical poles that people are marching with. Or something close. Something close to marching.
Matt:
Oh, batons. It's like cheerleading.
Tom:
Cheerleading is closer, but not that close. This is, in what may be the biggest clue I can give you, a question in sport.
Iszi:
Sports with poles in include things like skiing, so you get whipped with them. So is it to do with cross country skiing?
Tom:
It is to do with cross country skiing, Iszi.
Iszi:
Okay, right.
Tom:
Specifically cross country.
Matt:
Ice. Frozen is ice rather than snow.
Tom:
Yep.
Iszi:
And group is... people crying. Because it's the most horrific sports in the world.
Tom:
(laughs)
Matt:
Is this someone live scoring the TV coverage of it, based on what is currently being shown or what's currently happening?
Tom:
Yes.
Matt:
What?!
Tom:
Live scoring implies... I think something a little more musical than what's actually happening. You're nearly there.
Iszi:
Camera changing.
Matt:
Oh, chanting. You get fans chanting like at football matches.
Tom:
You might, there's— it's cross country skiing. That's the last clue here.
Matt:
Is it to keep the rhythm? Someone banging a drum.
Abby:
So it's one, two. One, two.
Tom:
Nope. This is just for the TV broadcast.
Matt:
Sound effects?
Tom:
Sound effects. Keep going.
Matt:
Is he doing foley?
Tom:
Yes he is, Matt!
Iszi:
Is it because they can't afford microphones?
Tom:
Yes, it is! You cannot mic up an entire cross country skiing course.
Matt:
Huh.
Iszi:
Oh my god. So he's literally just making noises and rustling his own coat and stuff to get—
Tom:
Well, it's all on a synthesizer. It's all automated sound effects.
This is Jyrki Ihalainen, who has artificially enhanced skiing broadcasts for many years.
He has an electronic keyboard, which produces a soundscape with skis sliding, ski poles hitting the snow, cowbells ringing, dogs barking. And he plays different sounds depending on the snow, the environment, whether they're going uphill, downhill, how far they are from the cameras, and whether we're seeing one skier or a group.
Matt:
I've not heard of live foley before. Never mind in sport.
Iszi:
I mean, you heard of foley before. Because obviously, you know... Oh, Ambridge, what's that called?
Tom:
The Archers.
Iszi:
That long-running—
Matt:
The Archers, yeah.
Iszi:
The Archers, yeah. They often use it to just emphasise this is why people... For those who don't know, it's the longest running soap opera ever. It's on Radio Four. And it basically is a load of farmers in the middle of nowhere in, well, Midlands, isn't it, UK. And in order to enhance any dramatic scene, there's usually a sheep giving birth in the background
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
or somebody putting their hand in something and squelching just to give it that sort of rural je ne sais quoi. And, yeah, no, that makes—
Matt:
And the reason for foley is if you're on a set recording for audio, or audio and video, the one thing you need more than anything else is good quality voice recordings. So generally you won't mic up anything else, 'cause that's a lot of effort, and you just concentrate on the mouth sounds, and then you add in everything else over the top afterwards.
So if you're in a noisy bar, the noisy bar sound that you can hear is normally recorded elsewhere at another time. And it's the same with footsteps and fight noises and...
Iszi:
Yeah. Well, when you see people acting in like, club scenes, you know, for TV and stuff, you actually just have people talking normally with everybody else miming to no music and pretending to talk to each other.
Tom:
So. I'll ask you to put the last piece of the puzzle together.
Why does he have to do this for cross country skiing? Why doesn't this happen for other ski sports? For generally any sport?
Matt:
Is it filmed on a helicopter? Or long distance cameras?
Tom:
Matt, you've got it. It is really easy to get telephoto images these days, whether it's from a drone or a helicopter, or just a really long lens. It is extremely difficult to get telephoto – well, tele-audio sound. It is much easier to get Jyrki in a studio, playing a synthesizer to cue in the sound effects.
Abby, take it away.
Abby:
This question has been sent in by Emily and approved by me.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Abby:
In the 1800s, fabric from British mill towns was often laid out on dedicated fields. What two natural benefits did this method provide to the production process? Again. In the 1800s, fabric from British mill towns was often laid out on dedicated fields. What two natural benefits did this method provide to the production process?
Tom:
I'm gonna ask Abby, did you say "fabric", or did you say "a fabric"?
Abby:
Fabric.
Tom:
Okay. It's not one specific type. Okay.
Abby:
Mm-mm.
Iszi:
So it could be cotton or wool. That's all it's gonna be, presumably.
Tom:
Yeah.
Abby:
No.
Iszi:
No?
SFX:
(Matt and Tom laugh)
Iszi:
Ooh! That makes it interesting. So it's hemp?
Matt:
Silk?
Abby:
Not silk.
Tom:
If you're using hemp, that'd be probably for rope making or something like that.
Iszi:
Could be, but also sacks and everything else. It's still an important fabric.
Matt:
If it's not— Is kilt— Silk is the only other natural fabric I can think of that's not—
Iszi:
I'm trying to think what sails are made from?
Matt:
Canvas.
Iszi:
Canvas, which is, I think, same as hemp, isn't it? I dunno. Okay.
Matt:
I'm like, you'd lay it out maybe to dry it. Or to wet it? Maybe?
Iszi:
Or to smooth it somehow?
Tom:
Or to stretch it.
Matt:
All of the flat things.
Tom:
That's the 1800s version of, Daft Punk's—
Matt:
Bop It.
Tom:
Oh, okay.
Abby:
No.
Matt:
(laughs) Yes, stop the—
Tom:
I was going for "Technologic", but sure.
Abby:
Tentering hooks are not done just laid out. Tentering is a separate thing. (laughs)
Iszi:
Okay. So the natural benefits of being laid down in a field is, one: sunlight, but then we're talking about mill towns, which tend to be in the north, and there's not much sun. So maybe it's not that.
Matt:
It's been sunny in Dewsbury!
Abby:
I will add something to this. This is a very specific example, but this is not the only example. This is something that has been done for hundreds of years, and was also just a part of the general laundering process. It's not just about fabric manufacturing.
Iszi:
Is it bleaching from the sun? So just get your whites whiter?
Tom:
Or disinfecting. Sunlight's good at that.
Abby:
So yes, the sun's a part of it, and it is about bleaching, but you still have a second one that you have to come up with.
Iszi:
And it's not disinfecting.
Abby:
No, the sun naturally does that.
Iszi:
Yeah, I mean, but is this something the sun does where it's to do with the way it dries, it sort of makes the fibres go in a certain direction, and makes it stronger or something?
Abby:
No, it's not— (sighs) So the sun does its basic sun bleach, right? Cool. We love that. Great. There's another...
Iszi:
Benefit.
Abby:
thing happening.
Iszi:
Okay. There's another thing happening.
Matt:
That's also bleaching related?
Abby:
That is bleaching related, yes.
Tom:
Huh.
Abby:
And it has nothing to do with wool and has nothing to do with silk.
Iszi:
Cotton?
Abby:
Linen. Flax.
Iszi:
Flax, flax!
Matt:
I thought, oh, I thought linen was a type of cotton.
Abby:
No. linen's from the— Linen is flax. And so it's a reed. Much better at wicking away moisture. It's naturally antimicrobial. I did another whole video about this, Matthew.
Matt:
Oh, that's cool.
Abby:
It's— (cracks up)
Iszi:
Fair enough.
Abby:
It's stronger when wet.
Tom:
Okay, so what are we missing then? It's bleached linen, and it does something else to the linen.
Abby:
It's being bleached. But there's another layer to the bleaching. Something else is happening to help the bleaching process.
Matt:
Is it 'cause it's a plant, and it's getting rid of the graininess of it? Because it's decaying, it's...
Abby:
You're so close.
Matt:
Rotting effectively, but... So you end up—
Abby:
It's not about rotting. That's a part of the manufacturing process of linen. It's not about rotting, but that does have something to do with plants.
Iszi:
Is it something to do with the plants underneath it, and they're giving out more oxygen or CO₂ or something that's reacting with the actual fabric?
Abby:
Yes.
Iszi:
So you've gotta put it on fresh grass in order for—
Matt:
Oxidation.
Tom:
The plants are giving off oxygen.
Abby:
Yes. So it's oxidizing it.
Matt:
The whitener that you put in your washing machine is— they're all oxidizers. Yeah.
Abby:
It's a natural oxy.
Tom:
Wow!
Abby:
So this is why the answer is cor— the question is framed well, but that's why I wanted to add some more, because it's not just about fabric manufacturing. This is also a part of the laundering process.
So one of the ways that you can naturally bleach out your linens after you clean them is by laying them out in the morning on a grassy patch to let the sun heat up the grass, and then the natural oxidization of the dew coming up, and the moisture and the chlorophyll, helps naturally bleach out the fabric more.
Matt:
Is that a specific linen thing, or will that work with everything?
Abby:
It works with, like, it's better with linen, but it will work with cotton too.
But you don't want silk to get wet. You don't wash silk. And also the same thing for wool. You don't— Wool doesn't need to get wet. Wool, if it gets wet, it can get fulled, it can get ruined. It repels water. So that's why it works for the plant fibers.
Matt:
Yeah, I never wash wool, and I never wash silk, because I don't own any.
Tom:
Which means we just have the question from the start of the show.
Thank you to Soham for sending this one in.
Why was Sergei Krikalev described as "the last Soviet citizen"?
Quick guess at that before I give the answer for the audience?
Iszi:
Was he like one of these people on like an island that got stuck? And like, you know, there's Japanese people who thought that the Second World War never ended, and he was stuck on an island and thought that Soviet Union never ended?
Tom:
Very close.
Matt:
Was he on Mir?
Tom:
Yes, he was! He was on the Mir space station when the Soviet Union broke up in December 1991. Matt, do you know where he would've launched from?
Matt:
Kazakhstan?
Tom:
Yes. That was launched— so—
Matt:
Baikonur Cosmodrome is where they launched.
Tom:
Yeah, so when the coup d'etat happened, he was told that was no money to bring him home. There was a reentry—
Matt:
Was he Yugoslavian?
Tom:
I don't— Well, no, he was Soviet.
Matt:
Well, Soviet, yeah.
Tom:
That was the point there.
Matt:
It's the other way around, isn't it then?
Tom:
He would've gone up, I dunno if they had patches on their arms there, but he would've been up there with a Soviet patch on his arm, and then his country no longer existed.
He was told there was no money to bring him back. Although there was a reentry capsule available, no one would look after the space station.
He eventually returned March 1992, and his 10 months in space broke the record for the longest space flight.
Thank you very much to all our players. Where can people find you? What's going on your lives?
We will start with Abby.
Abby:
You can find me on YouTube. Abby Cox, that's where I am. I'm also of course on Instagram too, IAmAbbyCox. And that's it.
Tom:
Matt Gray.
Matt:
I am at @MattGrayYES on all of the socials, or search Matt Gray is Trying on YouTube.
Tom:
And Iszi Lawrence.
Iszi:
If you go to ISZI.com, you'll get all of my links and stuff to the books and the podcasts.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are weekly video episodes in full on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Iszi Lawrence!
Iszi:
Bye!
Tom:
Matt Gray!
Matt:
Whee!
Tom:
Abby Cox!
Abby:
Woo!
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Sid, Emily, Hellen, Soham, Daniel Bohrer, Natalie, Iiris |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |