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Episode 174: The metal bar
6th February, 2026 • James Smales, Jonny Robins and John Cantrell from 'Here's What You Do' face questions about partial puzzles, soccer secrets and faraway flights.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Designed for a 2003 contest, which jigsaw by Paul Stansifer is incomplete?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Today we have made a bold, some would say reckless decision, and invited the hosts of the quiz podcast Here's What You Do. They are professional game show consultants and question setters for hire. That's right. We have brought ringers into a game about thinking.
It's like challenging three Michelin-star chefs ito a pot noodle cookoff, or asking three Olympic swimmers to help inflate your paddling pool. So if my hosting confidence evaporates into a fine mist, you will know why.
First... hello, James Smales.
James:
Hi, Tom! I mean, what an introduction!
Tom:
(laughs)
James:
And you are in for a letdown, I'm afraid.
SFX:
(others laughing)
James:
If anyone's heard the podcast, we can write questions, but we cannot answer them.
Tom:
Well, tell me about the podcast then. Tell our audience about the podcast. What is it y'all do?
James:
So each week, we set each other a brand new quiz, and it's inspired loosely by events that have happened that week.
So, I worked in TV and have created and developed quiz shows like The Answer Trap and Lingo and Picture Slam. So I developed those kind of shows. So I come at it from a kind of quizzy, analytical way.
Jonny has developed quizzes and also games and challenges for TV on big shows like 007: Road to a Million and Tempting Fortune, that kind of thing.
And John is our friend. And he also brings quizzes.
SFX:
(others cackle softly)
James:
But he actually tends to set the best ones and is the most intelligent out of the three of us. So, we're— we put him down in the introduction, but actually he's probably the best of the three.
Tom:
Then I'm gonna go over to the second member of the team, Jonny Robins.
Jonny:
Hi.
Tom:
Welcome to Lateral. How do you go about setting questions and quizzes for each other?
Jonny:
We've all got our own sort of niche way of doing it. I think. We've all got our own style.
I tend to like a little bit of whimsy, a little bit of a twist thrown in. So I like, you know, I like to have some fun with my questions, I would say. And it's normally, it just comes from... literally anything. You might be watching a movie and go, "Oh, that's a good idea for a question, and how can I sort of format a quiz around that?"
So, you know, we've done them when we're travelling around the world.
You know, John set one when we're solving a murder mystery through quizzes and clues.
And James has us barking like a dog. And singing.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
As far as I know, there's no singing required on this episode, but I'll be honest, I can't remember all the questions I've got in front of me.
And of course, for, I think the first time ever, all three of our players here have written their own questions for Lateral.
Jonny:
(inhales sharply)
Tom:
John Cantrell, the last of the three to be introduced here.
How was it working with Producer David and getting the questions back and forth here?
John:
I had a lot of fun writing those questions. It's really fun having a little snoop around the internet trying to find something that you think, oh, I'm not sure anyone will know that. How can I tweak that into an interesting question that no one will get? Or how can I tweak that into a question that particularly James and Jonny won't get?
SFX:
(Jonny and James laugh)
Tom:
I will admit to being a little bit intimidated by the lineup we've got here today.
John:
You don't need to be.
James:
Tom, honestly, we're intimidated by someone who's been on Only Connect.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jonny:
Yeah, we—
Tom:
Well, good luck to all three of you on the show today.
It's time to get going with today's show, and here's what you do. You answer question one.
James:
Yes, excellent, Tom!
John:
You're on the show!
Jonny:
Let's go.
John:
(cackles)
Tom:
Thank you to RedCree for sending in this question.
Pokémon Sun and Moon has a starter Pokémon called Popplio. In 2025, Tri Nguyen took two copies of this trading card on a European trip with his youth association. One was signed. What happened to the other?
I'll say that one more time.
Pokémon Sun and Moon has a starter Pokémon called Popplio. In 2025, Tri Nguyen took two copies of this trading card on a European trip with his youth association. One was signed. What happened to the other?
And all three players are clearly taking notes.
James:
Yes! Is that not what people normally do?
Tom:
(laughs) It's unusual for all three to be heads down while a question's being read.
John:
Oh wow.
Tom:
One person is normally going on vibes.
James:
(laughs)
John:
Oh, no. I operate normally exclusively on vibes, but today, I'm scribbling stuff down.
Jonny:
Our Pokémon knowledge, it's... I mean, I say it's one of our blind spots. We have many, many blind spots.
SFX:
(James and Tom laugh)
John:
It's easier to list the things that, yeah.
Jonny:
That we don't know, yeah.
James:
We did a Pokémon question with Bobby Seagull. We got him on the pod and did— we relaunched The Answer Trap, and he set us a Pokémon question, which we were hopeless at. So this is...
Tom:
(laughs)
James:
Centre, sideways, again! I don't even know what Popplio means!
Jonny:
And Sun and Moon. I'm guessing that's a later... So did— Was it two cards or two copies of the game that were taken?
Tom:
Two copies of the trading card for that Pokémon.
John:
Two copies of the trading cards. One was signed. What happened to the other?
Tom:
Mhm.
James:
Other one. So who signed the first one, I guess is the first question. So, who would sign a Pokémon? Pokémon can't sign it. They're not real. So the guy who—
Jonny:
Well, the artist.
James:
Well, is it something where... is Pokémon... Is the artist in Japan, and then maybe there's a European artist? And so there's two copies, 'cause two people have contributed two parts to the card? The first one was signed by that person. Then the second one was, they were hunting in Europe for that signature maybe?
Tom:
I do like the idea that Pokémon could sign their own cards. 'Cause you can give an autograph book to Mickey Mouse in the parks, and there is an official signature. I don't know if Pikachu has a signature.
James:
(laughs) It would be on fire.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jonny:
Well, I wonder. Where did the cards start? Because Pokémon's Japanese, but did the— They took a trip to Europe. It's why they travelled to Europe. Were they going to like a Comic-Con or to something that... to get signed?
Tom:
They were certainly visiting sites of special importance in Europe.
John:
Is it on the card? Is there— Are there two different Popplio cards, where the background or something in the— on that card is related to somewhere in Europe, a European destination?
James:
Yes. Or is Popplio itself, the design of the Pokémon, inspired by like the Leaning Tower of Pisa? And so it's got— its head is in the shape of that thing on top of it.
Tom:
There must be Pokémon inspired by architecture at this point, because they've been inspired by everything else.
James:
Yeah. (laughs)
John:
Exactly.
Jonny:
I was thinking, was the Pokémon inspired by something else, and the European trip took them to the Vatican City to be signed by the Pope Leo?
James:
Oh, Pope Leo!
John:
(wheezes)
Tom:
Yes! Spot on.
John:
Oh my word, Jonny. What a man! Well played.
James:
Wow!
Tom:
The first card was signed by Pope Leo, because it was Popplio, the Pokémon. That was one of them. What might have happened to the other?
James:
Oh?
John:
Oh?
Tom:
By the way, this was the Young Catholics of Denmark doing a youth trip, and they had the incredibly rare opportunity to meet the Pope, Pope Leo XIV.
Jonny:
Maybe was one of them left in state with the old Pope? The ex-Pope?
Tom:
(chuckles)
James:
(guffaws)
John:
The ex former Pope?
James:
His dream was to be buried with a Pokémon card.
Jonny:
Popémon.
Tom:
(laughs) Oh, yes!
James:
(cackles)
John:
Jonny Robins. What a legend.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Not quite... but there's certainly something else a Pope can do.
James:
Oh, he can bless... a card?
Tom:
Yes, he can!
James:
Whoa!
John:
Nice.
Tom:
As a huge Pokémon fan, Tri asked the Pope to sign a Popplio card, as it sounded similar, and the Pope also blessed a... Reverse Holographic version of the same card, which has now been dubbed the 'Holy Holo'.
Jonny:
Wow.
John:
Wow.
James:
(wheezes) Wow!
John:
The Holy Holo is a lovely bit of work.
Jonny:
Yeah.
Tom:
So, yes. Absolutely right. Tri Nguyen took two copies of the Popplio card to Pope Leo.
Jonny:
Amazing. I wanna play Pokémon now. Gotta catch 'em all.
Tom:
(laughs)
Each of our guests has brought a question with them, and as I said, they've written their own this time. So, very best of luck.
Jonny, we'll start with you.
Jonny:
Okay.
In 1991, a director asked for Seth and a few of his friends from England to fly over the Atlantic. Why was it vital that a section of the hold was refrigerated?
James:
Ohhh.
Jonny:
In 1991, a director asked for Seth and a few of his friends from England to fly over the Atlantic. Why was it vital that a section of the hold was refrigerated?
James:
Of course, it's a film question from Jonny.
John:
Yeah. Jonny Robins classic. That's a lot to unpack in that, isn't it?
Tom:
Yeah.
James:
Do we need to work out the film first? '91, they're filming it, so probably released in '92, '93.
Tom:
I mean, that was a good set of years for films. That was a good decade for films.
John:
Oh indeed, yeah.
James:
The best!
John:
Over the Atlantic, refrigerated. That is fascinating.
Jonny:
(laughs)
Tom:
(chuckles)
John:
Who the hell is Seth?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jonny:
Well.
James:
Yeah, Seth— Seth and his friends.
But it's not Seth Rogen. It's too early for him.
John:
No, no, yeah.
Tom:
And he is not in England.
James:
No. Seth MacFarlane might've been around then, but before he did Family Guy.
What other Seths are there?
Tom:
Seth Green, but again, I think too young back then.
John:
I can't think of any other Seths, other than loosely sort of B-list Hollywood Seths.
Tom:
The standard joke for Lateral questions is always check that you're talking about a human.
Jonny:
Right.
James:
Yes!
Tom:
So there could be some other non-famous Seth here going on.
James:
Of course, Seth the monkey from Home Alone or whatever.
Tom:
But what would you need to source from England? Like if you're looking for some trained cat or something like that... If you go into America, there's probably gonna be a trained cat in America that Hollywood can hire. That is probably in Los Angeles already.
James:
But wait, if it's refrigerated, and it's not a human... If it's a cold-blooded animal, 'cause they need to keep it cold or some sort? So is Seth a snake or...
John:
Yeah, some sort of reptile, crocodile, that kind of thing. Anything from a zoo over here.
James:
Yeah.
Tom:
But why a zoo over here?
Jonny:
So you're sort of skirting around the right sort of area at the moment.
James:
Oh, okay.
Jonny:
Not quite the right animals though, I would say.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
James:
Oh, but it's not human. Oh, wow, okay, Tom. Great.
Tom:
Well that's just from having played too many episodes of this and going...
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Jonny:
I was gonna say.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jonny:
Straight away, you weren't buying that Seth, you know, was some sort of, you know, Hollywood big shot that had to come over.
John:
I'd gone for a hook, line, and sinker. I was all in on humans.
Tom:
(laughs)
James:
Wow. What kind of animal would you call Seth? Would you alliterate? Seth the snake? Seth the snail? Seth the sloth?
Tom:
Yeah,
John:
I think you would do. Well it's gotta be, surely it's cold-blooded. You're not gonna like chill a lion or you know. It's got to be something, I guess, comparatively small and cold-blooded, those would be my guesses. So I think a snake's a solid idea.
Tom:
It's too early for Snakes on a Plane, isn't it?
Jonny:
(laughs) It is.
SFX:
(James and John laugh)
Jonny:
It's too early. This could have been the inspiration for Snakes on a Plane, but it wasn't.
John:
Oh.
James:
Wow. So Seth and his friends. Oh, is it like... Is it the snakes from a viper pit from... like an Indiana Jones film or something?
Jonny:
No, so it is not a snake. They are not snakes.
John:
Okay.
Tom:
Wait, across the Atlantic, right?
Jonny:
Across the Atlantic, yes. So they were in—
Tom:
From England?
Jonny:
They were in England. So the director was working in Hollywood at the time. So that is where they were heading.
Tom:
What do you need to import specifically from England? What creatures do we have here, that Hollywood doesn't?
John:
Penguins?
Jonny:
Hello.
James:
Oh?!
Tom:
Why on— Where did penguins come from?!
Jonny:
(laughs)
John:
Abso— Outta the blue.
Jonny:
I don't know where James pulled penguins from, but... he's hit the nail on the head there.
James:
Oh yeah, so...
Tom:
What movie needed penguins in 1991?
James:
There's, what's, Mr. Popper's Penguins. I've never seen that, but that feels like...
Tom:
That was too late.
James:
Was that too late?
Tom:
That was Jim Carrey and some CGI penguins, I think.
Jonny:
That was too late.
John:
Okay.
James:
Right, okay. What film has— Happy Feet is animated. Don't need real penguins there.
Tom:
Is this the, whichever of the Batman films has the Penguin in it and the penguins?
Jonny:
This, it was Tim Burton was the director.
John:
Great catch.
James:
Yes, Tom!
John:
Well done, Tom.
Jonny:
who requested for Seth and a few of his friends to fly over because... he was filming Batman Returns, and he wanted Danny DeVito's Penguin to be surrounded by real penguins.
And the only tame ones to be found found in Birdland in Gloucestershire in England.
SFX:
(Tom and James giggle)
John:
Incredible.
Jonny:
And—
Tom:
How did you suddenly get penguins? That's incredible!
James:
It just... I was just trying to think of cold-blooded animals that you get in the UK, which obviously they're not native, but there are— when you go to a zoo, you often see penguins, don't you? And you— they're often in films, so yeah.
Jonny:
Exactly.
John:
I'd have ruled them out immediately. They're not— surely they have them, A) in the US, and B) we're not known for, you know, keeping tame penguins on tap. But apparently we are.
Jonny:
Well, Seth is quite a legend. He's 40 years old now. He's believed to be the world's oldest penguin. And his keeper has said that he's easily distinguishable from the others due to his celebrity strut.
James:
Yeah, due to his ego.
John:
Oh wow.
SFX:
(Tom and James laugh)
John:
The fame has got to him.
Jonny:
The fame has— But now, when you're watching Batman Returns, keep your eye out, look out for Seth.
John:
Eyes out for Seth, yeah.
Jonny:
Look out for the cockiest penguin, 'cause that's Seth.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jonny:
That's Seth. And that is why the plane had to have a refrigerated hold for Seth and all of his friends to fly over.
John:
Is Seth still at Birdworld? Is he still there?
Jonny:
He's still going.
John:
Oh, we can go visit Seth.
Jonny:
(laughs) Visit Seth.
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
Tom:
Thank you to Luke for sending in this next question, because unlike everyone else, I haven't written my own today.
In 2021, three Aston Villa football players did something that caused eagle-eyed fans to work out that the captain, Jack Grealish, was injured. This happened without the players saying, writing, or photographing anything. How?
I'll say that again.
In 2021, three Aston Villa football players did something that caused eagle-eyed fans to work out that the captain, Jack Grealish, was injured. This happened without the players saying, writing, or photographing anything. How?
John:
Wow.
James:
(growls) I feel like I should know this. Sport, I would say would be my specialist subject.
Tom:
I was wondering if there was a sports person on the team. 'Cause every pub quiz team needs the one sport enthusiast.
Jonny:
It's very much not me. I bow out.
James:
Well, we've got two here. It's not Jonny.
SFX:
(James and John laugh)
Jonny:
Occasionally there'll be a strange sports fact fact that I will know, and oh, it feels great.
James:
Yeah.
Jonny:
To get one over on these two, but... But then you never know. For this, my lack of sporting knowledge may help sort of lead to the answer.
John:
Absolutely. A left field approach.
James:
Yeah, well, a left wing approach I think we need to take, John.
Tom:
Eyyy!
James:
Nice, nice work.
Jonny:
Jack Grealish was the captain for Aston Villa.
Tom:
Yep.
James:
Yeah. It must have been the last year he was there. 'Cause he joined Man City a bit later.
John:
It was clearly mid-match if three other players were involved in making it clear he was injured.
James:
Yeah. Is it worth working out what kind of injury he has?
John:
Oh, it's always his calves. Mm.
James:
Oh, his lovely calves.
John:
Oh, his lovely calves.
Tom:
You just said mid-match there, John. I wouldn't be so sure about that.
John:
Ooh.
James:
Ohhh.
Jonny:
Oh, interesting.
James:
And so it was the three players indicated to the fans that he was injured?
Tom:
Somehow, yeah.
James:
So...
John:
So I guess there's only two places that can happen, right? That's either— and not mid-match. That's either pre-match or there's often when you go to a football match, there's a part where you climb off the bus, you walk through towards the stadium into the change room and stuff. And often there are fans either side of you.
I wonder if there's a, there's something in that somehow, that gave that away... during that little walk?
Jonny:
Did they place a bet online? As in who was the starting captain or who was playing?
James:
And the fans were monitoring his betting account and saw the odds drastically dropped?
Jonny:
Well, when the fans saw the odds, the odds suddenly changed to...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jonny:
Jack Grealish scoring a goal goes to a 100-to-1. They go, he's not playing. He's injured.
John:
Oh, he's not playing.
James:
Yes.
Tom:
That's much closer to the real answer. This did spread online.
James:
Oh, I think I know it!
Tom:
Go, go, go.
James:
Did they transfer him out of their fantasy football team?
John:
Oh my god. Of course they did.
Tom:
Yes they did! Yes, they did.
John:
Of course. Brilliant.
Tom:
Because betting on him wouldn't have been legal. But just taking him out of the fantasy football leagues, which are public, absolutely. I mean, tell us a bit more about fantasy football, because I'm guessing our audience doesn't have a great knowledge of that.
James:
Oh yeah. I used to play it quite a lot. John and I are quite competitive, got to under 10,000 in the world at it. John obviously beat me, but yeah, essentially, you pick a team of footballers who score points for doing... events in the real games, but your made up team made up of lots of different players score those points. So you get points for a goal, points for an assist, points for a clean sheet.
And so if you've got some insider knowledge, and you know Grealish isn't playing, you transfer him out. Well, hang on. Why is our captain not in these players' teams? Oh, because he's injured. So we all know about it.
Tom:
Three Aston villa players and two backroom staff all transferred Grealish out.
Jonny:
So the players—
John:
I like that people are monitoring backroom staff accounts during that as well.
Tom:
Right?
Jonny:
But surely if you're the players, and you're playing fantasy football, and you've not put your teammate in your fantasy football team, would that not sort of be annoying, and going—
James:
Or captained yourself? 'Cause you're in the game yourself. So if you captain yourself and there's, you know, you're through on goal and you're, "Oh, I can have a shot here, but my teammate's in a better position. I don't wanna pass, 'cause I want more points."
Tom:
Well, so just to be clear, this is... English style fantasy football. This is not for money. There might be some friendly prize there. Like if you're thinking the current US nightmare that is sports betting, it's not that. This is just a local game with league tables. I don't think you'd throw a match over that, but...
Jonny:
Dunno.
John:
Wow.
James:
Hey, some leagues have forfeits for finishing last in them, and they release videos online. I'm sure people will have seen kind of funny Instagram things that go from like silly to... they're absolute ridiculous.
Tom:
Yeah.
James:
And so maybe they wanted to avoid some kind of forfeit.
Tom:
Yeah. Aston Villa ended up banning players and staff from fantasy football, just in case.
Villa also lost the match against Leicester 1–2.
Jonny:
Awh.
James:
Oh, there you go.
John:
Fair enough. 'Cause Grealish was injured.
Tom:
Which means we will go to John for the next question. Take it away please.
John:
Okay.
Banner Travel Services specialised in holidays to exotic, faraway places. In 1988, their advert caused them to lose 80% of their business, despite new enquiries from younger customers. What went wrong?
I'll repeat that again for you.
Banner Travel Services specialised in holidays to exotic, faraway places. In 1988, their advert caused them to lose 80% of their business, despite new enquiries from younger customers. What went wrong?
James:
Oh, now instantly, Banner Travel. Is that an Incredible Hulk reference? Have we gone film again?
SFX:
(others laughing)
James:
And far away places? I'm instantly thinking, you know, in films when you can travel to Mars and places like that, it's not an actual travel agent for the Earth. It's a, you know, in films, you know, visit Mars, do this.
Tom:
Oh, you are doing full fictional here. You're doing like comic book... This is a Marvel comic or something like that?
James:
Yeah, well, the last person wasn't— was a penguin, so I'm thinking that this isn't a real place.
SFX:
(others laughing)
James:
I'm thinking it's a different planet.
Jonny:
But they could still be advertising flights to Mars, you know, like... It's now sort of being offered now. You know, in the future, you'll fly to Mars.
Tom:
Didn't Pan Am advertise flights to the Moon? They sold tickets or something like that at some point?
James:
Yes. And you can buy bits of the Moon, can't you?
Jonny:
Yeah!
James:
Like, you know, for a birthday.
Tom:
Well, allegedly. It's very, very questionable, that.
Jonny:
Did Banner Travel buy parts of the Moon, John, and promised they were gonna send me there?
John:
I would say it's a little more earthbound than that.
Jonny:
Okay.
James:
Okay. More— Not totally earthbound, I think. Let's just not get rid of the space thing yet. Okay, so 1988, what's going on?
Tom:
That's what I was thinking.
James:
In kind of young people? It's a little bit before my time into— as I was alive, but I wasn't too sure what was going on.
Jonny:
Obviously there's no internet. There's TV advertising, there's Teletext Holidays.
Tom:
Oh, yes.
James:
Yeah.
Tom:
Oh god. We have to explain that. We have to explain that for a huge portion of our audience.
Jonny:
Yes.
SFX:
(James and John laugh)
Tom:
Teletext was a data service that was sent through the TV signal the same way that closed captioning is. And pre-internet, you could get news and sports data, and on the commercial services, advertising for holiday packages and things like that, that would just come to the data service on your TV.
Like Teletext Holidays, the brand still exists. You can still buy a thing from company that bought the name Teletext Holidays.
James:
Wow. I was more of a Ceefax man, Tom.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jonny:
Yeah. I only recently learned that Ceefax and Teletext were two different things on two different channels. I can't remember... which was BBC, which was ITV.
James:
Oh, of course they were, Jonny. BBC Ceefax, ITV Teletext. Everyone knows this, Jonny!
Tom:
(laughs)
John:
Well, this is news to me. I did not know that. I thought they were all just called Ceefax.
Jonny:
No, exactly.
John:
Well, I've learned something on the basis of my own question.
Jonny:
But have we uncovered anything, John?
Tom:
I think we might have uncovered It's not to do with Teletext.
Jonny:
Oh.
James:
(laughs heartily)
John:
Because he didn't even know about it! You could— no, absolutely. You can drill down more into the means that things were advertised though.
James:
Yeah, okay. So in '88... So younger people— So I wonder if they changed the location of the advert so they got more younger enquiries. Is it like cruises, for example? That's a traditional older holiday.
Tom:
I have a memory of getting catalogues through the holidays.
Jonny:
Yeah.
Tom:
You would write off to the package tour operator, and they would send back the— a catalogue that sort of thumped through your door. Like, oh yeah, this is where we're offering flights, and you simply paid them the money as a lump sum, and they booked everything – flights, hotels, transfers. You just got an itinerary. It might not even be a group tour, like you'd expect from that now. You would just get your itinerary sent through.
So I'm wondering if they changed something about the catalogue or some detail of that.
John:
There was one catalogue that we all used to have.
James:
Argos!
John:
One specific catalogue. Not that kind of catalogue. Catalogue of services.
Tom:
I was thinking the Argos catalogue as well.
Jonny:
Oh, I was thinking Argos.
James:
Oh, like a Yellow Pages.
John:
Absolutely, it is that.
James:
Okay! So they were in the Yellow Pages.
Why— Where would young people go in the Yellow Pages?
Jonny:
If it's Banner... Obviously they're not gonna be at the front. Maybe— You know, is it to do with the name? Did they change the name?
You know, you see taxis now, they're always called 'AAAAAA Taxi' to make sure they're at the front
SFX:
(group laughing)
James:
Yeah.
Jonny:
of the Yellow Pages.
Tom:
Oh, what was it? There was a restaurant somewhere that was called like "Best Thai Food in" whatever town.
I'm misremembering the location and the type of cuisine, but it was like search engine optimisation for plumbers and locksmiths and things like that.
Jonny:
Yeah.
Tom:
Was... Oh, thank you, Producer David. 'Thai Food Near Me' was the name.
Jonny:
Oh, amazing.
James:
Wow, brilliant! So good.
Tom:
So it is Banner changing their name to something to try and move around the Yellow Pages?
James:
Have we got the spelling of Banner?
John:
Think about that a little bit more.
Tom:
Ooh, okay.
James:
So, Banner, B-A-N-N-E-R. But there's Bana, B-A-N-A, the name.
John:
I would think about what you're thinking about there, but don't think about it in terms of the name of the company, but what they might be sharing in the Yellow Pages.
Tom:
But why would you lose 80% of your audience?
Are they going to phone number only, or something like that?
'Cause Yellow Pages has... You would put big adverts in there. For people who don't remember the Yellow Pages, it was the directory of all the businesses, who wanted to— and literally it was put through— It thumped through your letterbox every single year with, boomf, here's this year's Yellow Pages. Every directory you could need pre-internet. But the way they made money is through advertising in it.
So did Banner Travel change the advert to not include a phone number, or only include address, or something like that?
John:
Something did change, but it wasn't Banner that made that change.
Tom:
Huh.
James:
We're too late for... is it JG Hartley? Whatever it is.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jonny:
Was it the Yellow Pages? Was it the Yellow Pages that forced them to change something or moved where they were positioned in the Yellow Pages?
John:
No, the Yellow Pages did do something... that caused this palava, but it wasn't— And it was to do with changing words.
Jonny:
Hmm.
James:
Oh, did they go from first name, last name to last name, first name? And so they were moved from B for Banner, to T for Travel?
John:
No.
Tom:
Well, they changed their categorisation to a word that... younger people will understand, but older people won't.
John:
It was more, think more along the lines of, what do— what would a travel services company be advertising?
Jonny:
Was it, did they change the word to 'vacation' instead of 'holiday'?
John:
Even more subtle than that.
Tom:
They were selling package holidays, and they got filed under 'packages'.
Jonny:
Breaks?
John:
I used the... I used a keyword as an adjective in the beginning of the question.
Tom:
You're gonna have to remind us.
John:
I will read it to you again.
Banner Travel Services specialised in holidays to exotic and faraway places. In 1988, their advert caused them to lose 80% of their business, despite new enquiries from younger customers. What went wrong?
Tom:
Exotic and far away?
Jonny:
Exotic and far away, yeah.
John:
Are you meaning exotic, like dancing, exotic, as opposed to warmer climate, exotic?
Jonny:
Ahhh.
Tom:
Ohhh!
John:
There's a very simple switcheroo that they could have made, involving that word.
Jonny:
Was it changed to 'erotic'? Erotic holidays?
Tom:
Oh!
John:
There it is, Jonny. Absolutely right.
James:
Oh no!
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
James:
Oh no!
Jonny:
Amazing.
John:
An absolutely catastrophic error from the Yellow Pages.
Tom:
(cackles)
John:
Banner Travel Services ended up suing them for $18 million in lost revenue because of one simple spelling error.
James:
Wow!
Jonny:
That's amazing. Can you send me that link to Banner Erotic Holidays, please, John?
SFX:
(group laughing)
John:
Absolutely right. Banner services meant to advertise 'exotic' travel, but the Yellow Pages accidentally changed it to 'erotic' travel.
SFX:
(James and Jonny laugh)
Tom:
This question was sent in by Kain Lucas. Thank you very much.
Colin discovers a metal bar labeled 'Co 60' along with '[blank] and [blank]'. Which two verbs fill those blanks?
I'll say that again.
Colin discovers a metal bar labeled 'Co 60' along with '[blank] and [blank]'. Which two verbs fill those blanks?
James:
Wow. Who's Colin? Is it— You've mentioned 'Co 60', do you know... Oh, hang on. I was about to ask you, Tom, if you know what that is. It's your question.
Tom:
(laughs)
James:
You definitely do.
Tom:
It's not my job to tell you that, really.
James:
Yes. But there was a YouTube inventor guy called Colin Furze, who's does amazing kind of YouTube videos. I wonder if this is him, and he's created something kind of 'Co 60'. Do you know what that is, guys?
John:
Co 60? No.
Jonny:
I dunno what's— But then there's something missing, and it's... My brain is automatic— always goes, "Is it upside down? Is it... 'blank blank 090' backwards?" You know what I mean? There's some— Is there something weird about the 'mmmh'.
John:
Yeah, some sort of code in there. Yeah.
Jonny:
Or a word or something.
John:
See my brain was immediately drawn to Colin beginning with 'Co', and then 'Co 60', obviously beginning with 'Co'. And whether there's something in the way that's been phrased. I don't think there is.
James:
Yeah. Do you think Co 60's letters? As in 60 is actually like—
Jonny:
Unless it's Colin's 60th birthday, and they've buried this bar for him. And it says 'Happy Birthday'. They're the blank words.
SFX:
(group laughing)
James:
So Colin's got a metal bar. It says 'Co 60' on it.
Jonny:
Well, let's try and work out where Colin found this bar.
Tom:
That will be more helpful. I will say that Colin, in this question, is just... a guy.
Jonny:
Fine.
John:
Any old man.
Tom:
This is not based on
James:
It's not a penguin.
Tom:
actual bit of history. This, in this case, is just a theoretical Colin.
Jonny:
Perfect.
James:
Okay.
John:
Okay.
James:
As most Colins are.
Tom:
(laughs)
James:
(snickers)
Tom:
You could change the start of this question with, "If some dude".
Jonny:
So if they found a metal bar... with 'Co 60' and two blank spaces, what are the two words that go there? So where would you find
James:
Right.
Jonny:
a metal bar?
James:
Or what are the types of metal bars?
John:
Yeah.
James:
So you've got gold from a federal reserve or something.
John:
If we're talking those sorts of bars, yeah. Silver bars.
James:
Is it gonna be an erotic holiday bar?
Jonny:
It could be the type of bar
John:
Let's hope so.
Jonny:
...I would frequent.
Tom:
A man walks into a bar.
Jonny:
It could—
James:
Yeah.
Jonny:
It could be a metal bar. As in like—
James:
Right. Oh, so...
John:
Oh, a bar made of metal?
Jonny:
No, no, no, no, no. As in a bar that plays metal music.
John:
Oh, I'm with you.
James:
Yes! And Co 60 is the band. And so it's gonna be CO 60, turn it down, something.
SFX:
(Tom and Jonny laugh)
John:
The Revenge. Like the return of a tour. Well, you know, that kind of thing.
James:
(cackles)
Tom:
That is delightful. But the first clue that I have on my page here is: the bar is a few inches in length.
Jonny:
Okay.
James:
Oh, okay.
Jonny:
So it's not a metal bar for ants?
Tom:
(laughs softly)
James:
(giggles) No.
John:
No.
James:
After they've been hanging out with Seth.
Jonny:
A few inches.
James:
Oh, so a few inches? So it's not gold. It's a bar. What shape is this bar? That might help us.
Tom:
It's cylindrical.
James:
Cylindrical. Is it a piece of a machine? Like something that goes in something else? So, you know, like an axle or a...
John:
Is it part of something else?
Tom:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Jonny:
Like, I wonder, has he found it at work? Is he wandering through the woods? Where is— Has this— Has this fallen out of the sky? Is it part of an aeroplane?
James:
Oh?
Tom:
If you find this outside work, something has gone even more wrong than it has for Colin.
Jonny:
Oh, is it—
John:
Okay.
Jonny:
Is it something like in the opening of The Simpsons? One of those plutonium rods...
SFX:
(James and John laugh)
Jonny:
that gets lost from the power plant?
James:
Oh yeah. Or like a p— Oh! Or like a pin from a grenade, and it says like, 'throw back' or...
John:
Or 'extreme danger'. That sort of thing.
James:
Yeah!
Tom:
Jonny... Yes it is. It's very much like that thing from the opening of The Simpsons. So what could 'Co 60' be?
James:
Plutonium?
John:
Yeah. Uranium or plutonium or cobalt or...
Tom:
Cobalt!
James:
Ohhh!
Tom:
See, it is cobalt. It's cobalt 60, which is radioactive. You've absolutely got that. This is a bar of cobalt 60. And while it doesn't glow quite as green as the one in The Simpsons...
SFX:
(guests cackling)
Tom:
that's kind of the problem. It's just a metal bar. So what might be the two other words on it? Blank and blank.
John:
Handle carefully. Don't touch.
Jonny:
Run away.
Tom:
(chuckles)
James:
(cackles)
Tom:
Pretty much, Jonny. How might you phrase that? If someone is looking at this bar, it's blank and blank.
John:
Leave alone. Don't touch.
Tom:
You've got one of them, Jonny. It's 'run'.
Jonny:
'Run'.
Tom:
It's blank and 'run'.
Jonny:
Run and wash.
John:
Cover.
Jonny:
Run and hide.
James:
Hide?
Jonny:
Run—
Tom:
No, other way 'round. Blank and run.
Jonny:
Duck. Duck and run? Drop. 'Cause would you have picked it up?
Tom:
Yes!
John:
Drop and run?
Tom:
Yes, absolutely right. 'Cause it's only a couple inches long. This is, if you have picked up the bar of cobalt 60, and you are looking at the markings, it says, 'Drop and run'.
James:
(laughs)
John:
Wow.
Tom:
Which tells anyone who happens to pick it up, drop it immediately, run to a safe distance, and only then, contact the authorities.
And we have a quote here from nuclear engineer Katie Mummah, who said, "If you sprint away immediately, you might not die."
Jonny:
Wow.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
James:
Might?
John:
Yeah.
Tom:
Might.
John:
I'll take those odds.
Jonny:
Yeah.
James:
Yeah.
Tom:
Yeah, it's used in industrial radiography, food irradiation, and medical radiotherapy.
Which is why I said, you find it at work, that's bad. You find it not at work, that's worse.
Jonny:
Yeah.
John:
Oh yeah. That is awful.
James:
(cackles) Yes!
Jonny:
I hope I don't find one at work. Something's gone seriously wrong, but you know... Could be the new, you know, adventure reality show. 'Radiation'.
SFX:
(Tom and James laugh)
Tom:
'Drop and Run'.
John:
'Cobalt 60'.
Jonny:
Yeah. 'Drop and Run'.
SFX:
(Jonny and James laugh)
James:
'Drop and Run' is a great name for a telly show.
John:
Absolutely.
Tom:
Oh, the format development started. Here we go.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
James, we will head to you for your question, please.
James:
Izumi and Akiko are having a friendly chat on the phone.
Jonny:
(laughs)
James:
Akiko is interrupted by a "knock, knock" on the door. Akiko breathes a sigh of relief, but Izumi is furious and instantly hangs up, disgusted. Where is Akiko, and how did Izumi know?
So I'll read that one again.
Izumi and Akiko are having a friendly chat on the phone. Akiko is interrupted by a "knock, knock" on the door. Akiko breathes a sigh of relief, but Izumi is furious and instantly hangs up, disgusted. Where is Akiko, and how did Izumi know?
Jonny:
So my first thought is, you know, Izumi's husband has gone to work, and then there's a knock at the door. And she recognises that knock, because he always gives a playful rattatat or something, and instantly knows...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jonny:
the game is up.
John:
(chuckles)
Tom:
We have, I think, all assumed that these are both female names... and I'm gonna assume they're chosen for a reason. Like these sound... first glance, I'm gonna say Japanese. I dunno if that's relevant to the question. It feels relevant to the question.
James:
It is relevant to the question.
Tom:
Okay.
John:
Oh, okay.
Tom:
Three— (chuckles) And now three people who read as 'default British man' are going to tread very carefully!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Jonny:
They don't— You didn't mention that they answer the door. Does...
Tom:
It's just a knocking.
Jonny:
It's just a knocking that Izumi hears, and then she... hangs up, furious and disgusted? Was that the term you used?
James:
'Disgusted' was the term.
Jonny:
So disgusted is a very specific sort of description of what they're feeling. It's not anger. It's not frustration. Well, they were furious and disgusted.
James:
Yeah, that's— I'd concentrate on that, Jonny.
John:
Is there— We have Morse code over here. Is there a Japanese equivalent of that, that knocking on the door... perhaps was left, an insult was a word that they used to knock on the door with. And that left them disgusted as a result.
James:
I would think about the kind of culture that Japan has, maybe.
Jonny:
Is it rude to turn up... I was doing some research
John:
Unannounced.
Jonny:
for another quiz, yeah. I forget which country it was, and... I think it was Sweden or Finland or somewhere where it was very rude to turn up unannounced. To turn up unexpected. So was she not expecting guests? And then the door, the door went?
James:
I guess she wasn't expecting guests, but... she breathed a sigh of relief.
Jonny:
Oh, was it the police? Were the police knocking on the door?
Tom:
(chuckles)
James:
No.
Jonny:
Aah!
John:
(chuckles) Fair enough.
Jonny:
Oh, she breathed a sigh of relief?
James:
Focus on what Izumi heard. They're not in the same space.
Jonny:
So all she heard was the knock on the door?
James:
Akiko is interrupted by a "knock, knock" on the door.
Jonny:
"Knock, knock"? Does she not say "Who's there?" And she's furious?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
That's very carefully phrased. That's not necessarily someone knocking on the door.
James:
Let's try and work out where Akiko is. So, Izumi is disgusted. Why would you be disgusted when you're on the phone with someone?
Tom:
Oh my god!
John:
Oh.
Tom:
Oh, no.
John:
Tom's had an epiphany.
Tom:
(exhales stiffly)
James:
(wheezes softly)
Tom:
Where would you be disgusted... If you were on the phone with someone...
Jonny:
Oh!
Tom:
And you realise where they are, and you are disgusted...
Jonny:
I've got it.
Tom:
Yep.
Jonny:
Has—
Tom:
Presumably, Akiko is in the bathroom.
James:
Akiko is in a toilet cubicle, specifically.
Jonny:
Yes.
James:
So yes, Akiko is in the bathroom. So that's the first part of the question. How did Azumi know?
Jonny:
From the "knock, knock"? That's all she heard was a "knock, knock".
James:
Yes. But Jonny, what didn't she hear?
Jonny:
A flush? A wash of hands?
John:
Hair – yeah – dryer?
Jonny:
A woman's voice?
James:
Let's do a little game.
Tom:
(laughs) Oh, are we doing character work here? Okay.
John:
A game within a game.
James:
Imagine that you're stood at a door.
Tom:
Mhm.
James:
Jonny, I want you to knock on that door for me. Just make the noise next to your microphone so we can hear it.
Jonny:
(clicks tongue)
James:
So that was a double knock. Tom, how was your sound?
Tom:
(knocks echoey table)
James:
And John?
John:
(knocks deadened table)
James:
You've all done...
John:
Is there an echo? Is it about the echo?
James:
It's not an echo, but you've all done exactly the same thing.
John:
A little pause?
James:
No. If you were— Say you were going to like a friend's house, how would you knock on the door?
Jonny:
Duh, duh-duh-duh, duh.
James:
So what was the difference between the knock in the question and the knock Jonny did? The one for his friend? Do that again, Jonny.
Jonny:
So I went, "Duh, duh-duh-duh, duh." "...duh, duh."
James:
And in the question it was, "knock, knock".
Tom:
That's not enough information to deduce your knocking on a toilet door.
James:
Yes, it is enough information to know you're knocking on a toilet door. But how, Tom?
Tom:
Is there a specific cultural knock in Japan for, "Is this toilet occupied?"
John:
Ohhh.
Jonny:
Ohhh!
James:
Yes, Tom!
John:
So they need a third knock or something like that.
Tom:
Wow!
James:
Yes, John! That is exactly it!
There is a lack of a third knock. So Izumi didn't hear a third knock. So she knew... that Akiko is in the toilet.
So, Akiko is in a female toilet. Specifically, the third cubicle. It is customary to knock twice on toilet cubicle doors in Japan. It's a bad omen to knock three times on the third toilet cubicle door of a female toilet on the third floor of a building, traditionally.
Tom:
(laughs)
John:
Oh my word.
James:
But it's turned into all toilet doors, because according to the urban legend, three knocks summons Hanako-san, a ghost who haunts lavatories.
Tom:
Wow!
John:
Wow.
James:
So you don't knock three times on the toilet in Japan. You only knock twice. But it's customary in the rest of Japan to give more than two knocks. So if you are on the phone to someone in Japan, and you hear two knocks, they're on the toilet.
Tom:
Incredible!
John:
Wow.
James:
Izumi breathed a sigh of relief, as Hanako-san wasn't summoned. If it was that third knock, a ghost would've turned up.
SFX:
(others laughing)
James:
So she was relieved at that. However, this made Izumi correctly suspect that Akiko was speaking to her while she was on the toilet.
Tom:
That's such a good question, now I know the answer!
Jonny:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah, it's really good.
James:
(laughs heartily)
Jonny:
We sort of got there in the end.
James:
It's not anything... The Hanako-san knowledge isn't in the general aether, but it is now.
SFX:
(John and Jonny laugh)
Tom:
Which just leaves us with the question from the very start of the show.
Thank you to Elizabeth Johnson-Mills for sending this in.
Designed for a 2003 contest, which jigsaw by Paul Stansifer is incomplete?
Before I give the audience the answer, does anyone wanna take a quick shot at that?
James:
I think I might know it, or at least have a guess. Is it the Wikipedia logo?
Tom:
Yes, it is. Tell me more.
James:
Yeah, so the Wikipedia logo is a silver jigsaw of the globe, but it's got lots of different symbols on it, and it's missing a couple of pieces.
Tom:
Yes, to signify that the encyclopedia can never be complete. You are absolutely right.
Thank you very much to all three of our players.
Normally at this point, I have to ask each individually to say, where can we find you? What are you doing? But you know what? I'm gonna hand it over to the trio. Good luck. Tell me about the podcast. Where can people find you?
James:
Well, the podcast is Here's What You Do. We're in all your podcast apps. We set each other three brand new quizzes each week, trying to outdo each other and set each other the best kind of questions, best quizzes. There's something for everyone, lots of different questions, and the occasional funny moment.
Tom:
Jonny, what sort of questions?
Jonny:
We ask everything from, what is a Minimus or a Fat Rascal? To, what noise does a Black Martin make? All the way to...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jonny:
who committed the murder of great whimsy?
Tom:
And John, where can people find you?
John:
Oh, you can find us on all the pod apps. Spotify, Apple Podcasts. You can find us on all the regular social media. Here's What You Do Quiz Podcast.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are weekly video episodes on Spotify.
Thank you very much to John Cantrell.
John:
Thank you
Tom:
Jonny Robins.
Jonny:
Cheers. Bye.
Tom:
And James Smales.
Jonny:
Thanks!
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | James Smales, Jonny Robins, John Cantrell, Elizabeth Johnson-Mills, RedCree, Luke, Kain Lucas |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |