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Episode 176: Journaling paradise
20th February, 2026 • Dani Siller, Bill Sunderland and Sarah Renae Clark face questions about remote rails, dual disagreements and conked out cars.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
No one has ever ridden the Inaccessible Island Rail. Why?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
(training video narration) Welcome to Lateral. Module four: Effective Question Handling.
In today's session, we'll demonstrate best practice using real volunteer case studies, also known as "our guests".
Please note that engagement is compulsory, enthusiasm is optional, and any attempt to click "skip" will be logged for disciplinary action.
At the end of the session, you should be able to: identify a question, respond to a question, and pretend to understand the host's jokes.
Hoping they're on course for a good showing, welcome to our players. Today, we start with:
From her own YouTube channel about art and design, Sarah Renae Clark, welcome back.
Sarah:
Thanks for having me. I've been hanging out to come back again.
Tom:
Is art and design the right descriptor there? I riffed that off the top of my head, but I'm not sure. What are you concentrating on at the minute?
Sarah:
Yeah, I mean, that's the question I ask myself. I love to just tackle all kinds of art.
I'm actually doing something that's a little bit different at the moment and learning Blender, which is a 3D software, and I've just spent 100 hours going from beginner to... hopefully something worth showing on my channel, so...
Tom:
Oh, wow! What have you made?
Sarah:
Lots of really silly things, lots of physics things that didn't work so well. And then I also replicated my entire studio in 3D as well. So that was kind of fun.
Tom:
Aw, that's— Did you go off photos for that?
Sarah:
Only of the actual art on the wall. Most of it, for modelling,
Tom:
Okay.
Sarah:
I hand-modelled it. Like I made the clock and molded it, and yeah.
Tom:
Well... I think none of those skills will actually be relevant to the questions today. But you never know.
Sarah:
You never know.
Tom:
It's Lateral. These things could come up.
Also, joining us today: returning players and some of our most regular guests. They were here on our first show, and we will start with:
From Escape This Podcast, from Solve This Murder, from so many other things. Dani Siller, welcome back.
Dani:
I dunno how you keep getting into our house.
Tom:
(cackles) Yeah, I have to fly to Australia just to set up the studio, just to do the special Australian episodes of this that are not at all to do with time zones being convenient.
Dani:
Every time. Hi!
Tom:
Hi. It's slightly too early for me and slightly too late for you. How are you doing?
Dani:
(laughs) Ah, I'm doing great, actually. It's also slightly too hot for us right now, but...
Tom:
Oh, yeah.
Dani:
You know what? What can we do? And I'm also feeling extremely jealous of Sarah's background.
So I just got to tell you, we have a white wall in our recording studio. I'm currently painting it to look like a really colourful Goosebumps cover. Just to— Just something for us to bond over.
Sarah:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you wouldn't be jealous if you watch the video of me trying to do it.
SFX:
(group snickering)
Tom:
Also, please welcome the other half of Escape This Podcast, Solve This Murder, and so many other things. Bill Sunderland, welcome back.
Bill:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be back.
My special project is, when Dani's not looking, I slowly erase progress on that door so that it's less painted every time.
Dani:
Yeah, let's go with that excuse for why it's got so little done.
Bill:
And just a little bit each time. And then when Dani says, "Did someone erase this?" I say, "No, I dunno what you're talking about. You're going crazy."
Tom:
What are you working on at the minute? What's the big thing you're plugging?
Bill:
For us, it's business as usual. There should be, by the time this comes out, an entire new murder mystery on Solve This Murder, a fun transit-themed murder mystery that is a lot of fun. But as of right now—
Dani:
That's gonna appeal to so many people on this show, right?
Tom:
Oh yeah, yeah.
Bill:
As of right now, it's only partially recorded. So maybe if it's not up yet, it went terribly.
SFX:
(group cracks up)
Tom:
Well, good luck to all three of you on the show today.
This concludes the induction portion of your training. Please proceed to the comprehensive assessment, conveniently labelled question one.
Thank you to Zach for this question.
When it's safe to do so, Gerald will often reply "=6" to his employees and coworkers. What is his job, and why that reply?
One more time.
When it's safe to do so, Gerald will often reply "=6" to his employees and coworkers. What is his job, and why that reply?
Sarah:
It's really hard for my brain not to just go six-seven based on my kids lately.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Dani:
By the time this episode comes out, that'll be long gone, right?
Sarah:
I know, they'll be like, "Six, what?"
Tom:
I found a thing while researching... and this for a video that'll come out a long time from now. Things like that, weird expressions that are basically meaningless, have been going on for so long, I found an old reference, and I've got to explain a reference from like 1888 in a video to just a song title that became the equivalent of six-seven for the 1880s.
SFX:
(Dani and Bill laugh)
Dani:
That's beautiful.
Tom:
And it's so much context! It's so much context!
Sarah:
(chuckles)
Bill:
We've done some special bonus episodes reading a joke book from the 1700s. And a lot of those jokes, you just get to the punchline, and you're like, I got nothing. This is clearly something cultural that was really important at the time, but for me, I got nothing.
Tom:
Mhm.
Bill:
Just like this question. Why would you ever need to say "=6"? I've got nothing. This is nonsense.
Tom:
Good segue.
Dani:
Do you think we should focus more on the "when it's safe to do so"? What sort of boss is giving some safety instructions?
Tom:
Yeah.
Bill:
Yeah. When is it not safe to say "=6"?
Sarah:
Yeah, is it saying it that's not safe, or is it that there's other things going on, and six is like the signal that it's safe? And why six and not seven?
Bill:
Like when I say "=6", everybody's gonna run across the road. But if there's traffic, it's like, well, I gotta wait, and then I'll say "=6", and all my employees can run across the road.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Bill:
Why— "=6" is the answer to something, right? That's like they've posed a question. "Hey boss, I got a real tough problem. Two times three, what's going on?" And then when it's safe...
Dani:
Okay.
Bill:
...equals six.
Dani:
Is there some sort of situation, where people might be saying something that sounds like a math— a simple maths problem? Like 24 over 4?
Tom:
Yes.
Dani:
Ooh, really?
Tom:
Mhm.
Bill:
Oh, could it be like a sport? What was exactly his title? Did he get a title to—
Tom:
He didn't get a title, no.
Bill:
Okay, could it be like a— I wonder if it was one of those, you know how like... when American football players are playing American football, the coach is always like, "We're gonna run this play. We're gonna run this." 'Cause everything's very mathematically laid out.
Dani:
Sure.
Bill:
And I wonder if it was like a code sort of thing of like, we're gonna do— we're gonna do play two, three times, so I'm gonna tell my team "equals six!" And that way, the other people don't know that that's what we're gonna do. My team gets the code, and I only do it when it's safe to do so, because if we did it at a different place, we'd lose the game.
Tom:
So, code is a good keyword in there. Perhaps not in the way that you're describing it though.
Bill:
Damn.
Tom:
This wouldn't work for a phone call or a radio message.
Dani:
Intriguing.
Sarah:
Oh?
Bill:
It wouldn't work for a phone—
Sarah:
Equals six. So is there some kind of like... thinking back to different types of code, like you've got Morse code and stuff like that. Is there one that's based around... only six different sort of variables maybe?
Dani:
I'm now just moving my mouth, hoping that one of you will look at my face and think that it looks like something.
Sarah:
"And go, yes, that's exactly!"
Dani:
Right?
Sarah:
Microphone's not working when you've come up with the perfect answer. What about earthquakes? There's category of different earthquakes, and that would involve a bit of not being safe. But then the equals throws me off with that.
Bill:
Equals is an odd thing. Six is a very clear message. "=6" is a weird guy. This guy's got something strange going on.
Tom:
If it's not a phone call or radio message, what might it be?
Bill:
I had pictured him just rolling a window down and shouting verbally to some people. Just leaning out of his office.
Tom:
I don't think that picture's right at all.
Bill:
Ah, okay. He... writes it down. It's a visual message. It's not about the sound. He goes, "=6". And everyone looks, and they go—
Dani:
Is he doing it with his hands somehow? I can't even make that.
Tom:
You've all missed a pretty obvious way of communication here.
Bill:
Have we?
Sarah:
Sign language? Talking?
Bill:
He texts it.
Tom:
He texts it, yeah. This is a text message.
Bill:
That's writing it down! Okay, so "=6".
Tom:
Well, it is, but not by putting a pen, unless you have a Palm Pilot from the '90s, generally you're not handwriting this.
Dani:
I briefly thought about, could it be some sort of text speak? And then I went, no, "=6" is only going to be rude in text speak, whatever it is.
Bill:
Equals six is "mmn". It's like a equals— It's like a ":P". It's a "mmn".
Dani:
Little bit.
Bill:
You know, it's like—
Tom:
A little bit.
Bill:
"I'm your crazy boss. Oh!"
Tom:
Not quite. I think Dani, I'd drill down on that simple math problem.
Dani:
(sighs) Okay. What else can it be, besides just—
Sarah:
Back to the numbers that make up six.
Dani:
Three plus three. That's a pretty good one.
Sarah:
2 + 4. 1 + 5.
Tom:
(laughs softly)
Dani:
We're nailing it.
Bill:
Three factorial. "3!".
Dani:
That's true.
Bill:
They text three, exclamation mark. It's like, equals six.
Tom:
Remember, this is a text message, and it's only when it's safe to do so.
Dani:
When— What situations are there when people use texting in safe versus potentially unsafe moments? When is this important in someone's job?
Bill:
And then I suppose the other thing we need to consider is, if it's not safe to do so, does he not send them anything, or does he send them something else? Is also like a—
Tom:
It doesn't send them anything.
Dani:
Wait, when someone— What about when someone says, "10-4"? That would be like 10 minus 4, right?
Bill:
Ten-four!
Tom:
Yes, it would, Dani.
Dani:
Ooh!
Tom:
Yes!
Dani:
Okay! Now, why do people say that?
Bill:
Ten-four is like, message received.
Tom:
It is.
Bill:
It's like, I got it, man.
Tom:
Yep, and when written down, it is "10–4", ten minus four. So what's his job, and why that reply?
Dani:
Yeah, who does this? 'Cause right now I feel like we've got a text conversation of people saying, "Yep, yep, yep, yep" to each other.
Sarah:
Is it military-based in some way?
Tom:
Who else might use that?
Sarah:
Medical, like hospital codes?
Tom:
And has a job where it's unsafe to text while you're doing it?
Bill:
Dri— Oh, truck drivers?
Tom:
Yes.
Dani:
Oh?
Sarah:
Ah.
Tom:
So you've got the first part.
Bill:
Okay.
Tom:
Truck driver.
Bill:
He is a truck driver, and he replies "=6" as a— to say ten-four. But...
Tom:
10-4 means affirmative in 10 codes. So yeah, that's truck drivers, law enforcement, others. It has its roots in CB radio, but if you are in that community, you might still text "10-4" just as a— instead of saying "Okay" or anything like that.
So... why might you text back "=6" to that?
Dani:
'Cause it sounds fun.
Tom:
'Cause it sounds fun. That's the whole thing. It's just him being—
Bill:
Okay.
Dani:
Yeah.
Tom:
It's just him... adding a joke.
Dani:
I didn't know that truck drivers would communicate with... with that sort of thing with each other.
Tom:
It really— It wasn't that deep. It's just him being annoying.
Bill:
It's just him being a cool guy.
Dani:
Yeah. I really think that we were fine. I was totally fine with him having fun, but just going, ah? Why are truck drivers talking to each other?
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We will start today with Dani. Whenever you're ready.
Dani:
Alright.
This question has been sent in by Steven. Thank you so much.
The people of Salzburg, Austria earned the nickname 'Bull washers', thanks to a deception that saved the city in 1525. How?
And one more time.
The people of Salzburg, Austria earned the nickname 'Bull washers', thanks to a deception that saved the city in 1525. How?
Bill:
1525. That's pretty early.
Sarah:
Hmm.
Tom:
Can I confirm for Australian accent reasons...
Dani:
Oh, yes.
Tom:
The spelling of... is that bull, B-U-L-L?
Dani:
B-U-L-L. And washers.
Tom:
Yep.
Dani:
W-A-S-H-E-R-S.
Tom:
I briefly heard 'ball washers'. I'm like, that's a very different thing.
Dani:
Fair enough.
Sarah:
Alright, Salzburg reminds me of cheese.
SFX:
(Sarah and Bill chuckle)
Dani:
Really?
Sarah:
I think there is a brand of cheese maybe made there, and—
Bill:
Oh, probably. It's in Europe. They're always making cheese.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Bill:
That's all they do!
Sarah:
Bulls, dairy cows. I don't know, just...
Bill:
This to me has the... vibe, and probably 'cause the question really heavily gave this vibe, and nothing to do with me. It's like, did you say it saved them from war?
Tom:
A deception that saved the city, I think was the phrase.
Bill:
Yeah. To me, it's got big, like someone's coming in to be like, I've got an invading army. And they're just like:
"Oh, this isn't the town hall. It's the bull washing tent. Don't— The town hall's down that way. We're just washing the bull, you know? Oh, these soldiers? No, no, no. Those aren't rifles. What year we, 50— Yeah. Those aren't rifles. Those are bull washings. They squirt water on the bulls. Don't even worry about them. We have no troops here. Got 'em!"
And that seems to be the vibe it gives off, you know?
Dani:
You know what? Vibes based, you're not a million miles away. There are a couple of things in there that I'll go explicitly no, but you should definitely keep circling around this area. There was a war going on.
Tom:
It's Europe in the 1500s. There was probably a war going on.
Bill:
All they're doing is going to war and making cheese. That's all they've got!
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
Dani:
Yeah, I— This was a very— a pretty short war, as far as they go. It was only a couple of years. I don't suppose any of you are 1520s European history experts.
Tom:
No, no, strangely enough.
Bill:
Okay. So if I was gonna— Tom, if I was gonna invade your home, and you wanted to stop me...
SFX:
(Tom and Sarah snicker)
Bill:
how would you make bull washing involved?
Tom:
(giggles)
Bill:
In this story?
Tom:
That's a really specific question, Bill.
Bill:
I knock on the door, I've got a gun, and I say, "Tom, I'm gonna kill you. Unless you're washing a bull."
Tom:
I feel like this requires a bit more preparation.
Bill:
Salzburg didn't have time to prepare, Tom. They were taken aback by war.
SFX:
(Sarah and Dani giggle)
Tom:
They may have had a bull already. It's just a thought.
Sarah:
Is it a bull though? Is it a literal bull, or is it a metaphor— Is it a word for something else? Because you're talking deception.
Tom:
Centre of a dartboard, something like that.
Sarah:
But I was thinking bull, like it's... Maybe that's an Australian term, but that's bull.
Bill:
That's bull.
Sarah:
Bull... other things.
Tom:
Mm.
Sarah:
But that's—
Dani:
There was definitely some bull going on here, but in this case, we are talking about a literal bull.
Tom:
Okay.
Bill:
A literal bull. Now when you say there were, what, did they wash it or did they put little metal rings all over its legs, and they were the bull washers?
SFX:
(Dani and Tom blurt laugh)
Dani:
There was— They definitely washed it. It was not the only thing they did to it.
Bill:
They— okay. I've got a bull. I wash the bull.
Sarah:
This isn't like a Trojan horse situation, is it?
Dani:
Not quite.
Tom:
(laughs)
Bill:
I paint the bull.
Dani:
That is definitely a significant part of this.
Bill:
I paint the bull to look like a horse, and now they're worried I've got cavalry.
Dani:
Again, not— The Simpsons version is not quite the right answer, but with every step, you are edging closer to what was going on.
Bill:
I paint the bull with the flag of the people who are trying to attack, so they go, "Oh, we already took the city. All the bulls are painted with our flag."
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Bill:
Is that it?
Dani:
That's a steering a little bit further away.
Bill:
They paint the bull, and they say, "Salzburg, 50 miles that way" on the side of the bull.
Tom:
Sarah, what would you use to paint a bull? I dunno if it's relevant, but I'm trying to see if they paint it with some weird paint or something.
Sarah:
Well, I mean, what are they wanting the bull to be?
Are they wanting them to know it's a bull, or are they wanting it to look like a statue or something? Are they painting it in chrome or gold or something to... to look like a harmless statue, that when they touch it, it attacks them? I don't know how well these bulls are trained.
Bill:
What if you just painted a bull so that you could put it sideways on some battlements, and it looked like five guys standing in a row. Just like, it's... "We got so many troops up on these walls."
Tom:
Yeah, yeah.
Bill:
Oh, bulls can't go upstairs. You'd never get 'em up there.
SFX:
(Dani and Sarah guffaw)
Bill:
I take it back.
Tom:
Oh, no, no. You can absolutely get a bull upstairs. You just can't get it down again.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Bill:
Okay.
Dani:
This bull, the way that I've been picturing this, this bull definitely went upstairs, 'cause it was certainly being shown off to the enemies.
Sarah:
Were they dropping the bull? (wheezes)
Dani:
Thankfully, no.
Sarah:
(giggles)
Dani:
But again, it— The way that they painted it, I don't know how— I know there are some incredible painters out there, Sarah. But they were not painting this bull to look like anything other than a bull.
Tom:
Rabies is not a particular thing by the— Could it look diseased, or something like that—
Bill:
Ooh, a diseased bull.
Dani:
I'm going to say quite the opposite. This bull was... in not too bad shape. And they wanted that to be the case.
Tom:
Huh?
Sarah:
Were they painting it to look like it was worth more... for like trading or something?
Dani:
No, it wasn't quite that. Maybe just to add a hint of context for what this war is, this was the German Peasants' War.
Bill:
If peasant— Okay, Tom. If 100 peasants went to attack you in your home, and you had to paint a bull...
Tom:
(cracks up profusely)
Sarah:
(giggles)
Bill:
There's mil— There's so many peasants knocking on the door of your, I'm assuming, large countryside estate.
SFX:
(Tom and Bill laugh)
Bill:
And they're trying to overthrow the bourgeoisie that is Tom Scott.
Tom:
I don't like where this is going.
Bill:
How do you paint your bull?
Dani:
I have a question that, again, might prompt you in some directions.
Bill:
Sure.
Dani:
Why on— Why were they only painting and deceiving with one bull?
Bill:
Was it a million bulls?
Dani:
No, there was definitely only one bull.
Sarah:
Only one.
Dani:
Why only one bull? Why wouldn't a million of...
Sarah:
It just feels like some kind of high school vendetta, where you take the other high school's mascot.
Tom:
(laughs)
Sarah:
And you take their mascot, and then you do pranks on the mascot. Was this like the ancient version of that?
Tom:
No, they painted a three on the side of the bull, and then they had to look for the— No.
Dani:
Out of four, yes.
Tom:
Yeah.
Sarah:
Equals six.
SFX:
(Dani and Tom cackle)
Bill:
Ooh!
Dani:
The peasants, they had, you know, certain things. Like they were pretty, you know, if they were on the poorer side, they weren't the best when it came to, you know, having masses of weaponry and stuff like that.
But they did have one 'power' that they held a bit more control over than the rich people. What might that have been?
Bill:
Food production.
Sarah:
The farming.
Bill:
So, you paint the bull.
Dani:
The attackers were maybe not actively attacking, maybe trying to wait them out.
Bill:
Do you just write on the side, just like... I don't know, like we— Is it an indication of like, we can produce our own food in here? You're gonna have to actually storm the castle, idiots.
Tom:
Wait, it's a siege. This is a siege.
Bill:
Yeah. So they're waiting out.
Tom:
Are they changing the patterns on the bull?
Bill:
So it looks like they've got a million bulls!
Tom:
And they're just occasionally walking that bull past the entrance to the city?
Bill:
And so they're just like, these freaks have 100 bulls! We're never gonna wait them out. They have so many bulls to kill!
Dani:
That is exactly what happened. Salzburg had some good fortifications.
Tom:
It's a siege!
Dani:
So a direct attack wasn't working. So the people attacking just went, "Well, that's okay. Let 'em starve."
Sarah:
It's the Home Alone version of the silhouettes in the window dancing.
Bill:
Yeah!
Dani:
So they would take this beautiful prize bull they had. The last bull that they had available to them, because they were absolutely running out of food, and they just paint it black one day and parade it around, looking great and healthy... wash it off, and then paint it white the next day, and keep doing that over and over again.
Sarah:
And then enjoyed all the food poisoning later when they finally ate it, and it was covered in lead from all the ancient paints.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Thank you to Jack Swansey for this question.
One day, Ginger was surprised when her '94 Subaru Legacy failed to start, due to a part wearing out completely. Once a mechanic told her to try the spare, the car started right up. Why did Subaru feature this failure in a 2010 advert?
I'll say that again.
One day, Ginger was surprised when her '94 Subaru Legacy failed to start due to a part wearing out completely. Once a mechanic told her to try the spare, the car started right up. Why did Subaru feature this failure in a 2010 advert?
Bill:
Sarah, are you a car person? Do you know a lot about Subarus?
Sarah:
Not at all.
Dani:
Or 1994?
Sarah:
I've heard of Subaru. I couldn't pick one in the street. So I'm the best person to answer this question.
Bill:
Alright.
Dani:
I mean, when you think of a spare, you go straight to the tyres, right? Do cars have spare anything else? Did they used to have spare anything else?
Bill:
Batteries. Maybe you swap a spare battery in.
Dani:
Wow, that'd be sweet.
Sarah:
Well, I mean is the spare something that's not usually in a car, and therefore, that spare is a feature? And that's why they would advertise it.
Bill:
Yes.
Sarah:
'Cause most cars a battery. If the battery died then—
Bill:
You've gotta get a battery guy to come out and— Or you've gotta go buy a battery and go bring it back and swap your out for a new battery. You've gotta get jumper cables and jumpstart your car until you can charge the battery.
Or yeah, maybe there's some of like, "Subaru, that's right. We have spare batteries."
SFX:
(Tom and Dani chuckle)
Bill:
2010.
Dani:
Following year: Break-ins for Subarus increased 200%.
Sarah:
Could be spare key.
Bill:
Spare key— Oh!
Dani:
(laughs) Try the spare!
Bill:
You can't start the car 'cause your key has broke, has worn out.
Sarah:
That's— I've experienced that.
Dani:
Oh, wow.
Sarah:
Key snaps in half, and it's stuck in the car. But you would have a spare key.
Bill:
That makes sense. That's something you definitely cannot start the car without.
Sarah:
You would still need someone else to help you get it out, and then you could use the spare key.
Bill:
Use the spare key.
Tom:
(nods silently)
Bill:
Let's say that's what it is. In which case—
Sarah:
Oh, he's nodding. This is—
Tom:
I am nodding. Keep going.
Sarah:
Yeah, okay.
Bill:
Why Subaru— like 2010. That's right. Some people use this car so much, they wear their keys out.
Tom:
Yes, Bill, you're right. It's a '94 Subaru Legacy and a 2010 advert. So you've got most of the bits. Just piece it together here.
Sarah:
Ah, it's the first time it's ever broken down for her.
Tom:
I think you have the idea that the key snapped off. Not the case.
Bill:
It just wore away from constant use.
Tom:
It just wore away.
Dani:
She was using the car for 16 years, and it was still going.
Tom:
Yes, and this was the first time the car had broken down. And it had broken down because the key had been worn smooth.
Bill:
That's a good ad.
Dani:
That's wild.
Sarah:
Wow.
Bill:
I think you've gotta take some time to get one pithy sentence out of that concept, but it is a good print idea to advertise.
Tom:
Well, the pithy sentence I have is "The key wore out before the car."
Sarah:
Mm.
Bill:
That's pretty pithy.
Sarah:
Pretty good.
Bill:
That's a pithy observation.
Tom:
It was 200,000 miles on the clock. Ginger was surprised when the car didn't start for the first time ever. The mechanic told her to try the spare key, it started fine, and there was an advertising campaign where Subaru owners told the manufacturer about their car stories, and they printed those. And so it was simply "The key wore out before the car."
Sarah, whenever you're ready, we'll have your question please.
Sarah:
Casper Kelly was the creator of the viral comedy short film Too Many Cooks. For what specific reason did he name a pie after Danish film director Lars von Trier?
I'll read it again for you.
So, Casper Kelly was the creator of the viral comedy short film Too Many Cooks. For what specific reason did he name a pie after the Danish film director Lars von Trier?
Bill:
Okay, do we know as a group, do we know Too Many Cooks?
Dani:
I feel like I should.
Tom:
Well, so it went 'round a few years ago, and I got a few— like a minute into it. It is a parody of '80s American sitcom opening titles.
Bill:
Yeah, it's all a parody of opening credits, effectively.
Tom:
Yeah, it's joke after joke, with so many characters, increasingly surreal being introduced.
And... once I realised that they were doing the gag where we're just repeating this music over and over and over again, and it's catchy, I'm like, I don't need this in my head. I'm gonna stop here.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
I don't need this in there. I don't— 'Cause so many people were complaining it was going 'round their head for weeks. I'm like, I'm good. I don't need— I remember there being a lot of characters being introduced, and going, you know what? I'm gonna leave that back.
Dani:
I guess I mustn't have seen this, 'cause it's not coming into my head right now.
Bill:
I think I'm in a similar situation, where I've seen the start of a quite long thing of like, oh, I think I get the idea.
Tom:
It's 12 minutes of opening titles with the same music all the time.
Bill:
Right, and it's just saying there's so many cooks, which, it's great. It's a very cool thing. I didn't watch the whole of it.
Tom:
(cackles)
Bill:
So presumably at some point...
Dani:
There's a pie called Lars.
Bill:
There's a pie.
Tom:
Yes.
Dani:
Or thereabouts. Okay, so what— Well, should we go into what we know about Lars von Trier outside of, makes movies?
Bill:
Makes movies.
Dani:
I can't even say which movies.
Tom:
No, neither can I.
Sarah:
Yeah, I can't help you on that either. I'm sorry. (laughs) Not because it'll help you. Because I dunno the answer.
Tom:
I have Lars von Trier in my head as a controversial filmmaker. But beyond that, I have very little knowledge. There's a flag in my head. That's a guy who does weird stuff.
Bill:
Yeah, controversial as in, the films he makes, as opposed to making very normal films and being a weird guy.
Dani:
Alright, so what could've been controversial about this pie?
Tom:
I feel like we don't need to know that for this question. If we needed to know that, there'd be names of films in the question.
Sarah:
Yes, there's no information here. So I'm guessing it's not relevant what films he made.
Tom:
Okay.
Bill:
So, Lars von Trier. Who is not, I would like to correct my own brain constantly, Verne Troyer, a very different person.
Dani:
He's also not Gus Van Sant.
Bill:
Also not Gus Van Sant!
Tom:
Tonight on, Who is Lars Von Trier Not!
SFX:
(group giggling)
Dani:
He's not Lars Ulrich.
Bill:
He's not Lars Ulrich. But he is a pie.
Tom:
But also, this could be a pun, and working around things like that might be the way to go.
Bill:
Okay.
Tom:
I mean, I'm now trying to anagram the name on the assumption I've spelled it right.
Dani:
Oh, that's a great idea.
Bill:
Lars von Trier rearranges to...
Sarah:
Okay, so I would get less caught up on the name, and just be aware that it is a director.
Tom:
Okay.
Sarah:
And Casper Kelly, who is the creator of Too Many Cooks, was a fan.
Bill:
Okay. So...
Tom:
Okay.
Bill:
So in the opening credits for this fake sitcom... the director, the director of this fake sitcom was listed as Lars von Trier. But also... there was a pie.
Sarah:
So he wasn't listed as the director. He was listed as the name of the pie.
Dani:
The pie.
Tom:
There's just a shot of a pie with "Lars von Trier" below it as a character introduction.
Sarah:
I'm looking at exactly that as a picture reference on my question.
Tom:
Question, what type of pie? Is there a type of pie...
Dani:
I wonder how important it could be.
Sarah:
I mean, I can assess the type of pie, but I don't think it's relevant.
Tom:
Well, I was thinking like pumpkin pie, like American-style one, or like Australian-style meat pie. There's multiple—
Sarah:
This looks like a sweet pie.
Tom:
A sweet pie, okay.
Sarah:
Again, I don't think it's gonna help you in the clue to worry about the type of pie...
Tom:
(laughs)
Sarah:
but it does look more—
Dani:
Are we just looking at pastry puns? Is movies crusty?
Bill:
It is absolutely wild to me that we are sitting here being told, okay, there's a pie named after Lars von Trier, but you don't need to know anything about the pie or Lars von Trier.
Tom:
Right?
SFX:
(guessers giggling)
Bill:
Alright.
Tom:
It's not the type of pie, and it's not the type of movies.
Bill:
Is the answer, Casper's a weird person? Is that the answer? Just a weirder—
Tom:
Based on Too Many Cooks, almost certainly.
Sarah:
It could be an answer that some people assume. I don't wanna put words in anyone's mouth here, but you know, that could be assumed.
Tom:
If you name a pie after a director, how is that like a tribute to the director? How is that a compliment?
Sarah:
I do think you're on the right track with thinking about attribution.
So thinking about attribution in general, like... when someone's name is attached to a film or something like that, how do most people come across that? Or how does that help them in their career, when their name is attached in a credit source? Anything like that?
Bill:
It's on IMDb. So on IMDb...
Tom:
Oh.
Bill:
Lars von Trier has one acting credit now.
Tom:
Oh no!
Bill:
And that is as Pie in Too Many Cooks. So he can add to his IMDb page, give him his first ever acting credit.
Dani:
Ohhh.
Sarah:
So on that train of thought, Lars von Trier might— isn't the one who made this decision. So why would Casper Kelly have made this decision?
Dani:
He can say he made a movie with Lars von Trier.
Tom:
And Lars von Trier will check his IMDb page at some point and go, "Why am I listed as a cast member here? What is this film? I have to go see it."
Dani:
(laughs heartily)
Sarah:
So, yes. I don't know if it was necessarily to get the attention of Lars von Trier, but Casper Kelly wanted to be associated with Lars von Trier.
So by casting the pie under that name, it means that it is on his IMDb listing, so—
Dani:
I love that you said "casting the pie".
SFX:
(group laughing)
Sarah:
Sorry.
Bill:
The pie is cast.
Tom:
Eyyyy!
Sarah:
So in the 11 minute long surreal comedy horror sketch, which sounds like how you've all described this...
Tom:
(gruffly) Yeah.
Sarah:
The name Lars von Trier is given to "Pie", and it is an actual pie.
And in an Ask Me Anything, creative consultant, Paul Painter said, "We are both huge, huge fans of von Trier, but it was all Casper's idea. We greedily wanted to be connected to him on our IMDb pages. Didn't really think anyone would ever see this."
So they actually were originally gonna choose David Lynch, but thought that would be too obvious.
Tom:
This next question comes from Sam Toogood. Thank you, Sam.
Gabriel and Anders were alive at the same time, and are remembered for the same achievement, yet they never met. If they had, they would have disagreed, unless they met in the winter. Why might they have agreed on one thing?
There's a lot in that question, so I'll give you it one more time.
Gabriel and Anders were alive at the same time, and are remembered for the same achievement, yet they never met. If they had, they would have disagreed, unless they met in the winter. Why might they have agreed on one thing?
Dani:
Look, people simultaneously inventing things, that happens.
Bill:
This is like the, like calculus or...
Dani:
All that.
Bill:
A second example.
Tom:
(laughs) If you can come up with a second example, Bill, if it happens to be the right example, you're definitely along the right lines.
Dani:
Various evolutions, but...
Bill:
Not the same time. But Pythagorean theorem was also, was independently and much earlier developed in China or India. Is it— Is this Gabriel Pythagoras?
SFX:
(Tom and Dani laugh)
Tom:
It's not, but again, closer than you might think. If you knew their surnames, you'd know it.
Bill:
Erdős... and...
Dani:
Oh my.
Bill:
No, I don't...
Dani:
Sarah, quickly start naming some scientists.
Bill:
Or some Anderses, but not that one.
Sarah:
What about the light bulb? There was a bit of argument over who invented the light bulb, wasn't there?
Bill:
Yeah.
Dani:
The loads of different stages of light bulb development. That's true.
Sarah:
Yeah.
Bill:
Too many light bulbs.
Sarah:
The other thing is the winter aspect. So why is it that they would agree in winter but not otherwise? And I wonder if it has something to do with ice or...
Tom:
(shrugs thoughtfully)
Dani:
Are they, yeah, are they like— I don't know their name. Are they Gabriel Celsius and Anders— It's not Anders Fahrenheit, but they have—
Bill:
Ooh, I do like that.
Dani:
There are more temperature names.
Tom:
Yes, it is, Dani.
Bill:
They're coming together.
Dani:
Ooh-hoo-hoo.
Tom:
It's Gabriel Fahrenheit and Anders Celsius.
Dani:
And they live in brutally cold places, where they would only agree at -40.
Tom:
Negative 40! Yes!
Sarah:
Wow!
Tom:
Good fact! Excellent, so...
Bill:
Yep, that's great.
Tom:
I'm gonna run through the question again.
Gabriel and Anders were alive at the same time, are remembered for the same achievement – they have a temperature scale named after them – yet they never met. If they had, they would've disagreed unless they met in the winter. So why might they have agreed on one thing?
'Cause so far, you've just shouted a number at me.
Dani:
I have.
Tom:
And I've gone, "Yes." So we should probably explain why.
Dani:
That makes sense. The ways that you can relate the two temperature scales of Celsius and Fahrenheit, where Fahrenheit is 9/5 Celsius + 32. I think I'm getting that right, if you—
Tom:
Oh my god, you remember the formula!
Dani:
If you make those two, the C and the F, equal each other, the only way that that works out is at -40°.
Tom:
Yes, -40° Celsius and -40° Fahrenheit are the same temperature. So in a harsh Siberian winter, in theory, they would've agreed on what -40° feels like.
Dani:
I had no idea they were alive at the same time.
Bill:
No.
Tom:
I didn't either.
Dani:
Kind of assumed there was something more gradual.
Tom:
No, they overlapped by about 35 years.
Dani:
Wow.
Sarah:
Yeah, wow.
Tom:
Fahrenheit improved thermometer accuracy, and so he introduced a mercury thermometer with his own scale that he came up with.
Celsius, who was an astronomer, he proposed the centigrade scale in 1742. That put freezing at 100° and boiling at 0°. So it was later inverted. It was called Celsius and...
Dani:
They says.
Tom:
Yeah, they're different zero points, different degree sizes. So the only time they would agree is -40°.
Sarah:
But we can all agree which one is correct, right?
Tom:
(laughs)
Sarah:
We can all agree.
Bill:
Yeah, we all know. We're all Kelvin fans here.
Tom:
Bill, it is over to you, please.
Bill:
This question has been sent in by Matt.
Due to previous visitors, Market Basket in Worcester, Massachusetts began to be highly recommended online as a place to do journalling. Why?
One more time.
Due to previous visitors, Market Basket in Worcester, Massachusetts began to be highly recommended online as a place to do journalling. Why?
Tom:
Market Basket sounds so much better in an Australian accent, where there's that assonance in there. Market Basket.
Bill:
Yeah, Market Basket.
Tom:
Yep.
Dani:
I mean in Massachusetts, what would it be? Mwahket Bawsket?
SFX:
(Tom and Bill laugh uproariously)
Bill:
No, I don't think so!
Dani:
Oh, I'm not gonna do that again.
Sarah:
They would say basket.
Dani:
Massachusetts accents can be the wonkiest.
Tom:
(snickers)
Dani:
All I know about Worcester, Massachusetts is that it's where Paulette moves at the end of the Legally Blonde musical.
Tom:
Oh?
Dani:
That's all I got.
Tom:
That's, I mean, that feels like a very specific sort of reference that might help. That feels like the sort of previous visitor this place has.
Dani:
I mean, it is set at Harvard, so I assume that moving to Worcester isn't that remarkable?
Bill:
Don't worry too much about Legally Blonde, the musical.
Tom:
Auugh!
Sarah:
(giggles)
Dani:
Okay, yeah, it just sounds like, I don't know, a nice, peaceful place. What makes people want to journal in one area more than another area?
Tom:
Oh, that's not what I interpreted it as. I thought this was a supermarket. Market Basket sounds like a supermarket with baskets to get food. Like I just assumed it was a grocery store.
Dani:
Oh, interesting. I hadn't thought too heavily about it, but I was definitely thinking like, oh, fancy outdoors, flower market sort of thing.
Sarah:
I mean, it could be both things. It could be the supermarkety thing, and then a nice place to journal. What would you be journalling? What's— Because there are a lot of... I don't know the timeframe for this, unless I missed it, but like TikTok and that, there's a lot of clubs of like, go to here, do this. This is a great place for this. Although it's the kind of thing that as soon as you tell everyone, all the tourists come, and it ruins it. So being a nice, quiet place, maybe that's not the answer.
Bill:
Look, I will say spot on with this sounding like a supermarket or a grocery store. It is. Which... I mean, in my personal opinion... wouldn't be a good place to journal. As you said, it's full of people... shopping... for things... and being loud.
Dani:
Yeah. Who else— What other cool visitors would go there? They have to be human visitors. Are there any cool animals in Worcester, Massachusetts?
Bill:
Not that I know of.
Sarah:
I'm stuck on the journalling. Why journalling?
Tom:
Hmm.
Sarah:
What do you journal? You journal experiences, thoughts, memories, a dream journal. Is it a shopping list, but fancy somehow?
Dani:
And why would previous visitors have made that seem... "Ooh, hey, that's an idea."
Bill:
Hm, yeah, that is true. Why would— Where would you get previous visitors adding to this idea that this is a good place to journal, if it's not?
Sarah:
Are they bringing a journal with them, or is there like a communal journal that everyone adds to?
Tom:
No, hold on, hold on. I assumed it was a good place to journal. That question is phrased very carefully.
Maybe it isn't, and people were mistaken because of online reviews or something like that, where someone has— someone's typed a thing that can be interpreted two ways, and suddenly, "Oh yeah, I wanna go journalling. I'll do it here."
Bill:
Follow that. That's a good idea.
Dani:
Okay, so someone just made a mistake and left some review somewhere or something that said, "Great journalling spot, guys."
Bill:
You're getting around it, but that doesn't make any sense as it is.
Dani:
I'll say!
Tom:
What could a supermarket sell or be reviewed about, that can be misinterpreted as...
Dani:
As journalling?
Tom:
journalling is good here.
Bill:
That is the question.
Dani:
Oh, okay. What sounds or looks like journalling, especially if you're typing quickly?
Bill:
This— That's a perfect question.
Tom:
Oh, okay. Then it might be an auto-correct thing. Or a typo or something like that.
Dani:
I'm trying to type badly in my imagination and see what happens.
SFX:
(Tom and Sarah chuckle)
Bill:
You are stuck on this idea of journalling, which is great, a fantastic idea to be stuck on, but not necessarily... a good specific wording to be stuck on.
Dani:
Oh, did they say... So they might have said writing or something, of that— Or di— diary! It has a good 'diary section'.
Tom:
Ohhh!
Bill:
Yes.
Sarah:
Diary, dairy.
Bill:
That is exactly it.
Dani:
Classic mistake.
Bill:
AI search started to confuse 'dairy' and 'diary' because of typos in reviews.
Tom:
(sighs)
Bill:
Such as: "Wow, this grocery store has an exceptionally well arranged produce and diary section."
Sarah:
(wheezes)
Dani:
Amazing.
Tom:
Incredible.
Dani:
And terrible. Absolutely terrible.
Tom:
(laughs)
Dani:
Come on, guys.
Sarah:
I hope they at least started selling diaries after that.
Bill:
I mean, you'd hope so.
Tom:
So all that remains is the question at the start of the show.
Thank you to Jeff Green for sending this in.
No one has ever ridden the Inaccessible Island Rail. Why?
Any guesses about that?
Bill:
Yeah, it's inaccessible, Tom!
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Bill:
This is a silly question.
Sarah:
Is it a model railway? (laughs)
Dani:
Very easily, it is... Is there a place called Accessible, that is ironically very inaccessible?
No, there's too many layers. Person called no one. Place inaccessible.
Tom:
It is technically accessible. You could reach it.
Bill:
You could reach it.
Tom:
Mhm.
Bill:
But you wouldn't.
Dani:
Then I'm agreeing, model railway.
Bill:
(snickers)
Dani:
What's funny? What's gonna be funny about this, guys?
Bill:
Inacc— There's a band, INXS. It's... The railway was sued by INXS for stealing for their IP.
SFX:
(Tom and Sarah laugh)
Bill:
I don't know! Why can't— It's just an inaccessible railway! It's an accessible inaccessible railway that hasn't been ridden.
Sarah:
Did you say accessible or inaccessible?
Tom:
I said Inaccessible Island Rail.
Dani:
Oh, right.
Bill:
Rail?
Dani:
Island rail.
Bill:
It's just a rail? It's not a railway at all? There's no train? It's just a rail?
Sarah:
Is there no station?
Bill:
You can get to the rail, but you can't ride it? There's no train!
Tom:
You can technically get to the rail. But it's not a railway. You're right there.
Bill:
It's a skate rail to grind down.
Dani:
You can definitely ride that.
Tom:
If you did ride it, something bad would happen.
Bill:
Is a rail a type of animal?
Tom:
Yes, it is, Bill.
Bill:
There we go!
Tom:
It is in fact a small flightless bird native to Inaccessible Island,
Dani:
Oh no!
Tom:
which is in Tristan da Cunha in the South Atlantic. It is about the size of a sparrow. And it is flightless.
Bill:
You can't ride that!
Tom:
You can't ride the Inaccessible Island rail. It won't go anywhere.
Bill:
You'll kill it!
Tom:
Thank you very much to all our players. Where can people find you? What are you up to?
We will start with Sarah.
Sarah:
Yes. You can find me at SarahRenaeClark.com or @SarahRenaeClark on pretty much any social media, YouTube.
And I'm actually working on a website at the moment, where I'm building a whole bunch of colour resources for people called The Colour Companion, coming soon.
Tom:
Bill!
Bill:
If you wanna check out the things we do, you can go to ConsumeThisMedia.com for our escape room show, Escape This Podcast, or our murder mystery show, Solve This Murder.
Tom:
Dani, specifically excluding everything Bill just said!
Dani:
Or our Twitch content at Play This Game.
Tom:
Nice, well done.
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are full video episodes up on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Dani Siller.
Dani:
Thank you!
Tom:
Bill Sunderland.
Bill:
Thank you for having me.
Tom:
Sarah Renae Clark.
Sarah:
Thank you.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Steven, Matt, Jeff Green, Zach, Jack Swansey, Sam Toogood |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |