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Episode 185: Mackerel comfort
24th April, 2026 • VT Physics, VeeVee and Geoff Marshall face questions about various vowels, jostling jumps and medical minerals.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
What do Céline Dion and the song "Old MacDonald Had a Farm" have in common?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Welcome back to Lateral, the show recently described by a reviewer as "delightfully confusing". Other reviews have said that we are "an excellent way to feel smart and then not", and "great for falling asleep but in a nice way". We take all feedback to heart, even the one that simply said, "Why?"
Fortunately, our guests today are here to provide three strong answers to the question, "Why".
First, from the YouTube channel VT Physics, we have VT Physics!
VT:
Hello there, everybody.
Tom:
Welcome to the show. It is your first time playing, so I will ask the obvious question.
What do you do online? What's your channel about?
VT:
I tend to talk about physics and general science on my channel. It covers everything from our day-to-day life to new tech and science.
Tom:
One thing you've done that I haven't even dared to start is to move into shortform, and a lot of the stuff you're making now is just quick debunks for shortform stuff. How has that been for someone who started doing longform stuff?
VT:
Well, making shortform video is so much fun because you get to do them so quickly. Within a day or two you can produce a neat video that encompasses all the science that you want to talk about but in a fun and bite-sized manner. And I guess that's how it reached a wide number of audience because there are simple concepts and yet it's relatable. And I've had so much fun making them this year because I got to collaborate with some of my favorite creators out there, and it's just been, yeah, one crazy year for me.
Tom:
It feels like the barrier to entry on longform is so much higher now that it's just really fun to just make short stuff.
VT:
It is, yeah, and with somebody like me who's not very techy in terms of editing videos and not having a super high-quality computer, you could literally edit a video within half an hour on your phone. And if anybody out there is interested in starting a shortform channel, or even Instagram Reels covering news or science, I really recommend that as a stepping stone for anything else.
Tom:
Which does give me a very nice segue into our next guest.
From the YouTube channel VeeVee TV, and also VT Physics' little sister, VeeVee, welcome to the show!
VeeVee:
Thank you. Thanks, Tom. Hi, everyone. I'm VeeVee from VeeVee TV, and yeah. I guess following in the footsteps of VT Physics, my older sister, decided to also embark on the journey of shortform videos. Like VT mentioned, yeah, it's— I love talking about news. I— actually, my background was in journalism. So it was really interesting for me to actually discover this style of newstelling or storytelling. So, yeah.
Tom:
If you get this many YouTubers on a call, it's a limited amount of time before someone mentions the word 'algorithm', so I'll try not to get too inside baseball here.
VeeVee:
(giggles)
Tom:
But what's it been like for you starting out with shorts, then?
VeeVee:
I personally found it easier to almost, like, go 'viral', because—
Tom:
That word hasn't been the same since COVID, has it?
VeeVee:
I know. I know.
SFX:
(both laughing)
VeeVee:
Viral in the content sense. 'Cause, yeah, I think I had some videos where you touch on, like, hot topics or things that's being really circulated. You jump on that bandwagon or you add a twist to it. It's actually, yeah, easier to kind of get your content seen, and obviously with VT's advice and help as well, it's— that journey has been a lot easier for me.
Tom:
Well, very best of luck on the show today.
Our two new players and relatively new YouTubers are joined by someone who's been on the show plenty of times before. An old hand at both Lateral and YouTube like myself.
Geoff:
A veteran. (laughs)
Tom:
Oh, right, sorry. A veteran of— that— now, that does feel more like you've been in a war than on a social media platform. But I don't know. We've all got our scars. Geoff Marshall, welcome back to Lateral.
Geoff:
Hello, Tom. Thank you. Hello, VeeVee. Hello, VT. Hello.
Tom:
You have been making videos about trains for I think about as long as I've been making videos about curious things.
Geoff:
Yeah, yeah.
Tom:
Any plans to branch out into shortform?
Geoff:
If anything, I've gone the other way. Worryingly, I am so old now, I've been doing this 10, 12, maybe 15 years, and I dabbled with shorts, but if anything, I've decided that my— I guess I'm fortunate enough to have established an audience, and if I don't put out a short every day, that's fine. Sometimes they'll wait a week or two, and I'll put out a much longer form video. So just this morning I've been editing a 25-minute sort of epic.
Tom:
It's terrifying, isn't it?
Geoff:
Yeah, but it works, and I'm very fortunate to be in that position, and I do acknowledge that.
Tom:
Well, welcome, all three of you. Good luck to the show that, as I record this, is not going out in full episodes on YouTube and is instead on Spotify. (laughs) So good luck on this brand new medium.
As Lord Tennyson once wrote, "Theirs not to reason why." Oh, actually, no, it is— it is actually yours to reason why. So, let's charge into question one.
Thank you to Eli Gorauskas for this question.
When discussing their favourite games, Himari might tell Ryan to perform a '214', '623', or '41236'. Why?
When discussing their favourite games, Himari might tell Ryan to perform a '214', '623', or '41236'. Why?
Geoff:
Straight away that sounds like soccer formations, like the classic 442, but it's not that. But it— that's what it made me think of. Interesting.
VeeVee:
I immediately go to, like, steps. Like a dance machine where you would step on a, like, one, two, three, four, five, six. Then you'd go, like, two, one, four, and those are the steps.
Tom:
This is where I show off some of my weird knowledge of arcade dance games.
There is now a machine out there, which has all nine panels for that. 'Cause Dance Dance Revolution was up, down, left, right. Pump It Up was the diagonals and the centre. There is now one that has all nine.
And VeeVee, you are not too far away with that. Certainly along the right lines.
Geoff:
It's a dancing thing. Is it a dancing thing?
Tom:
Oh, no—
VT:
It's a physical thing rather than something like a board game.
Tom:
Geoff, you picked up on the— unfortunately the wrong part of that.
Geoff:
Oh, okay, no. So, it's not dancing.
Tom:
It's not a dance part.
VeeVee:
Okay, not the dance part.
Tom:
(laughs)
VT:
Or is it more of a navigation thing? So if it's not dancing, could it be... some sort of angles, bearings, or steps that they need to take in order to get to the next stage, or the next location?
Tom:
Now, next stage is probably a good one in there as well. VeeVee's actually much closer than you might think.
VeeVee:
Okay, so it kind—mm. It sounds like it's steps or... some kind of panel movement.
Tom:
Yeah. Yeah.
VeeVee:
Okay, two—
Geoff:
Tom, can you remind, you said game or games. You didn't specifically say board game or computer game or—
Tom:
I did not, no.
VT:
Okay, so it has to be something physical rather than something that's digital.
Tom:
I think it's probably both in this case. I know that's an unhelpful clue, but really, VeeVee's... It's not a dance game! It's not one of those in arcades. But honestly, not far away.
VeeVee:
Oh, oh, I know, I know, I know! Could it be, like— Okay, I'm thinking six, right? 'Cause I think you mentioned the upper number is six. Wait, does a guitar have six strings? I just need to know.
Tom:
Ohhh! What—
VeeVee:
Is it like Guitar Hero?
Tom:
Ah, again, not the right genre. Like, you've got there very early. This is a video game. Spot on, video game.
Geoff:
I was gonna say, if six is the upper number, six is the highest number on a standard dice.
Tom:
Nine is actually the upper number here.
Geoff:
Oh, nine. You said there was a nine. Okay.
VT:
Nine?
Geoff:
It's a nine-sided dice.
SFX:
(Geoff and Tom laugh)
Tom:
Himari and Ryan are— the names aren't specific, but they— there is a bit of a different background between them.
VeeVee:
Himari and Ryan. I've watched the show before, Tom, and I feel like there's been so many— there's been so many questions where it's like, "Himari's actually a panda," or like—
Tom:
(laughs) Oh, yeah, no. You've clocked on. You've clocked on very early here. No, there is let's say a language barrier here, between the two humans— theoretical humans, but humans mentioned in this question.
VT:
And are they competing against each other, or are they on the same team? Or would that matter?
Tom:
It wouldn't matter for this. I think it's safe to say they're giving each other advice or tips or just discussing the game.
Geoff:
Now just to check, they are humans? There's no computer-based—
Tom:
(laughs) Yes.
Geoff:
Or it's like an AI robot involved in playing one of the players? Okay, no, just making sure. Okay. Actual humans.
VeeVee:
Okay, and they're giving each other clues? Or is it like a clue that Ryan has to guess, or actually is Himari just giving Ryan instructions to navigate somewhere?
Tom:
VeeVee, you were so close with just your very first guess. You are seeing that panel for the dance game, and you are looking at the markings on that, and you're giving numbers to that. You are so close. It's just not a dance game.
VT:
Is it more like a Battleship kind of game? But you did say it's not a board game, right?
Tom:
It's not, no. Again, you're so close. (cracks up) You got so close so early! And then managed to just kind of skim around the answer. If you look at the keyboard in front of you, you might be able to work this one out.
Geoff:
Oh, is it to do with the directional arrows on the— 'cause one is bottom left, three is bottom right, and all that? Is it that?
Tom:
What are you looking at there, Geoff?
Geoff:
Not the numbers across the top QWERTY key, but on the right-hand side. The number pad. Is it that? Hang on.
Tom:
Yes. Yes, it is.
Geoff:
Okay.
Tom:
This is why I said you were so close, VeeVee. You're just— you were kind of right, just the wrong appendage.
Geoff:
Can you give us one of the numbers again in the question? (laughs)
Tom:
So, 41236.
Geoff:
That sort of makes a U shape.
Tom:
Yes, it does. 214?
Geoff:
A pointing left bottom arrow.
Tom:
Yep. 623?
Geoff:
Is a pointing right bottom arrow. Wait. Or— So it's directions?
Tom:
It's directions, yes. Absolutely right. It's which order you're pushing the keys in. Absolutely right. And if you have a language barrier, that's a great way of passing things back and forth. Patterns you might need to push. Now, the question is, have any of you played or know the genre of game where that might be useful?
Geoff:
No. I'm so old!
SFX:
(both laughing)
Tom:
Oh, no, Geoff! This was in— This was in arcades when you were a kid.
Geoff:
Oh, really? Oh, okay!
VT:
Oh!
Tom:
Wouldn't have been a num pad back then. Would have been a joystick, but—
VeeVee:
Like Street Fighter?
Tom:
Yes! Spot on!
Geoff:
No! (laughs)
Tom:
This is notation for beat 'em up video games.
Geoff:
Wow!
VeeVee:
Oh!
Tom:
So anyone can understand it regardless of the language. You might not be playing on a num pad. You might be playing on a joystick or anything like that, but the numbers they use are the directions to push the joystick, because you're right, Geoff. It's a lot easier internationally to say "41236" than it is to go, "It's kind of a U-shape half circle. Well, you don't have U in your language. Well, it's kind of like—" right. So this is...
Geoff:
That's amazing.
Tom:
notation for joystick movements in fighting games.
Geoff:
That's great.
VT:
Ah.
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We will start after that solve with VeeVee. Whenever you're ready.
VeeVee:
This question has been sent in by Julien.
In 1999, passengers on American Airlines suddenly experienced a noticeable improvement in comfort – something that schools of mackerel already did. What changed?
I'll repeat that.
In 1999, passengers on American Airlines suddenly experienced a noticeable improvement in comfort – something that schools of mackerel already did. What changed?
VT:
And you definitely said mackerel. Is that right?
Tom:
The fish?
VeeVee:
The fish. Mackerel.
Tom:
Okay.
Geoff:
So not just fish in general, but specifically mackerel? Yes.
Tom:
Oh god, do I take the risk of sitting out on this one?
Geoff:
(cackles)
VeeVee:
Oh!
Tom:
Because I don't know it, but my brain's just put something together. Alright. If this is... Is it anything to do with business class, VeeVee?
VeeVee:
No.
Tom:
Okay! Okay. So here's what I was thinking. 1999 is about the time that airlines started doing lie-flat beds in business class. I actually think it was maybe 2001, a little bit later than that, and the way they did it – I think it was British Airways that did it first – was they realised that you can fit more people in if you kind of do a herring bone pattern down.
VeeVee:
Ah!
Tom:
So people's— So one passenger's feet are next to the next passenger's head. Like, there's a divider between them. They don't know that. But you can shift more people lying down if you design the seats that way. I was like, "Oh, that's how mackerel—" No, it's not. That was just wrong, and a diversion we didn't need. Okay, fine.
Geoff:
Is it anything to do with boarding? Speed of boarding? 'Cause that's always a great contentious topic, isn't it? How fast you get people on and off of a plane?
VeeVee:
No, not to do with boarding.
Geoff:
So it's once they're sat on the plane in place.
VeeVee:
Correct. I would say it's— yes. It's post-boarding, on the flight, in flight.
Geoff:
Ah. It must just then be like spacing or legroom or don't hold your seat back or something that mackerels do in swimming to give each other space while staying in a school. Is that the collective noun for fish? I think? So they're swimming together but with maximum space in between or something.
VT:
Well Geoff, you're thinking about spatial comfort here, but I was more thinking about... mackerel, are they quite streamlined? Is that to do with perhaps the way that, I dunno, like, air conditioning is controlled in an aircraft?
Tom:
I was just thinking that when a predator plane suddenly arrives, they all scatter, but—
Geoff:
Very good. (laughs)
VT:
Well, passengers can't really do that on a plane.
SFX:
(VT and Tom chuckle)
Tom:
They can if they try hard enough!
VeeVee:
The two thoughts from Geoff and VT around the way mackerels swim, or cont—you guys can continue thinking about the... the types of in-flight activities. So what's part of the experience in-flight?
Geoff:
You watch a terrible movie on a tiny four-inch screen. (cracks up)
Tom:
You open some tiny packet of snacks that are flavourless.
Geoff:
You complain about the lack of legroom and hope the person in front of you doesn't put their seat back. What— what?
VeeVee:
Geoff, you mentioned the tiny screens. That's—
Geoff:
(wheezes)
VeeVee:
I would continue there.
SFX:
(Tom and Geoff laugh)
VeeVee:
Continue there.
VT:
Oh.
Tom:
Okay.
VeeVee:
Not necessarily the screens.
Geoff:
Watch Netflix? What—
SFX:
(Geoff and VeeVee wheeze)
VT:
I'm just thinking about the intensity of light in an aircraft. Could mackerels adjust their eyes somehow to reduce the brightness of external stimuli?
VeeVee:
Not light.
Geoff:
Sound. Sound.
VeeVee:
Mm!
Geoff:
Sound. What— What are you—
VeeVee:
Geoff, sound?
Geoff:
What— I don't know what noise mackerel make!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
I don't know if mackerel make noise, Geoff!
Geoff:
Do fish make noise? Do fish— I don't know. Do fish make noises? I have no idea.
VeeVee:
You're the other side, the— (laughs)
Tom:
It's— Okay, so how do you make the noise environment on a plane better for the passengers?
Geoff:
Well, the noise is the— (mimics plane engines humming) of the aeroplane, isn't it? It's kind of this low rumbling, deafening noise, yeah, that's just constant.
Tom:
So how do they make that better?
Geoff:
Do mackerel have some built-in earplugs or something that humans don't have?
VeeVee:
(widens eyes)
Geoff:
Or we've adopt— Oh, no! What— You actually— I thought that was stupid, and you actually went, "Yes!"
VeeVee:
No, that's not too far.
Geoff:
What?
VeeVee:
Continue. Continue on that kind of line of—
VT:
Like, noise cancellation? Anything to do with that?
Geoff:
Now I'm just thinking of Hitchhikers, where they put the yellow fish in the ear to translate.
Tom:
(laughs)
Geoff:
That's what I— that's where I've gone, but instead it's a—
Tom:
There's no way American Airlines gave out free noise-cancelling headphones.
VeeVee:
No, you got it.
VT:
Or could they just play a noise? Like, play some sort of background noise to cancel out—
Tom:
Did they figure out a way to, like, noise cancel inside the plane?
VeeVee:
So, I think VT, Tom... you guys got it with the noise cancellation. You guys are just missing...
VT:
How?
VeeVee:
What's— Yeah. In relation to mackerel. So it's something that schools of mackerel already did.
VT:
Does it have to be a bunch of mackerels, or can it be a single mackerel on its own?
VeeVee:
It's schools of fish. So it's a bunch of mackerels.
Geoff:
They generate some kind of frequency that cancels out the noise of the ocean or something. What— they— they vibrate their fins at a certain resonance or something. What? What? It's gonna be something really, really, really bizarre.
Tom:
So Geoff, you said they were— Do fish make noise? Technically, they're gonna make a vibration in the water, right? And if you've got, like, 10,000 fish all swimming in sync, what you're gonna get is this massive resonant noise that attracts predators. Like, I said my thing about predator planes arriving, right? Like, not that, but predators arrive for the mackerel, because they're all swimming in sync, so they desync, which makes white noise instead of a resonance, right?
VeeVee:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Tom:
I don't know how that translates to a plane, but I've got the fish bit!
Geoff:
(laughs heartily)
VeeVee:
Yes, no, and I think, Tom, you said, "Oh, surely they weren't giving away—"
Tom:
I said they weren't giving away free noise-cancelling headphones.
VeeVee:
Yes, Tom, they were.
Tom:
What?
VeeVee:
In 1999, Bose actually introduced its first consumer active noise-canceling headphones, and they actually debuted it on American Airlines. And a lot of this technology was actually... in schools of fish as well, including mackerel, where they generate less noise than just individual swimmers of the fish. Because of the random timing of each fish's movement, they'll actually partially cancel each other out. Therefore it makes it harder for predators to detect. (giggles)
Tom:
There's no way American Airlines was giving those out for long.
Geoff:
And then for the dinner service, they serve mackerel.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Thank you to JP Etcheber for this question.
In 2012, Margaret brought a tortoise she had found in her garden to a wildlife rescue centre, concerned that it wasn't eating. Which 11 markings did the wildlife center find on the tortoise that explained why?
I'll say that again.
In 2012, Margaret brought a tortoise she had found in her garden to a wildlife rescue centre, concerned that it wasn't eating. Which 11 markings did the wildlife center find on the tortoise that explained why?
Geoff:
This is gonna be something like the tortoise had tried to sort of duck under something that left marks on its shell on the outside. It tried to go somewhere where it shouldn't have gone to not get food but for some reason avoid... I'm assuming it's marks on the shell of the tortoise.
VeeVee:
And you said it wasn't eating.
Tom:
It wasn't eating.
VeeVee:
It wasn't eating.
Tom:
And she was worried about that.
VT:
And when they found those 11 markings, they knew exactly why it wasn't eating?
Tom:
Exactly why.
Geoff:
Oh, was the tortoise sort of being antagonised by a fox or a cat or something, that was eating the tortoise's food and leaving a mark on the tortoise?
VT:
I'm just wondering whether it has to be 11 specific marks, as in, did those mark— 11 marks come together to make a certain pattern, certain word? Or were they separate markings?
Tom:
You are actually getting closer with that. And they are specific markings.
VT:
Did it spell out a letter? A word, perhaps?
Tom:
Yeah.
Geoff:
Had somebody been writing on the shell of the tortoise with a piece of chalk or something? What?
Tom:
Yeah, the markings were letters. You're right.
VeeVee:
Oh, my gosh. I'm getting, like— like an imagery, now.
SFX:
(VeeVee and Tom laugh)
VeeVee:
And it's kind of creepy.
Tom:
Oh, whoa, whoa, hold on. What are you seeing?
VeeVee:
I'm seeing, like— like you know in The Shining? Where they had "redrum" on the wall, and it spelled "murder"?
SFX:
(both laughing)
VeeVee:
Elev—
Tom:
A haunted tortoise. Oh, that's really pleasant to say. Haunted tortoise.
Geoff:
(cackles)
VT:
So VeeVee already thinking that it's the owner who's put those markings on the tortoise. Rather than—
VeeVee:
Hmm.
Geoff:
Or is it an angry neighbour? The tortoise is stealing the lettuce from the angry neighbour's garden and they're writing... No, hang on. Is it... Wha—uh... Why would you write on a tortoise?
Tom:
That, Geoff, if you can answer that question, you've got the whole thing.
Geoff:
(laughs) Okay! I'm gonna find out in about five minutes, aren't I? Okay. Why would you write on a tortoise?
VeeVee:
The 11 markings, did it spell anything?
Tom:
Oh, yes. Absolutely.
VeeVee:
So they were— Okay. Hmm.
VT:
And the owner definitely knew that this is a live animal?
Tom:
Keep going, VT.
VT:
I'm just thinking that it has to... It reminds me of... perhaps the owner, maybe a blind owner, has to feel for any markings to... (inhales sharply) realise that what he has— or is it Margaret, did he say? What she has—
Tom:
Margaret, yes. Margaret.
VT:
In front of her, if she doesn't know, then she might have to... feel those marking to work out what everything is in her house?
Tom:
You've spotted there's something strange about this tortoise, VT. I'll give you that much.
VT:
I think it's more like something strange about the owner.
Geoff:
Yeah. Yeah. I think VT's onto something there.
Tom:
So, 'owner' is perhaps not the right word here. Margaret brought a tortoise she had found in her garden.
Geoff:
Oh, it wasn't established that it was her tortoise. It could just be a rogue tortoise.
Tom:
It could just be a rogue tortoise.
Geoff:
Well, like, a neighbour's tortoise that had escaped and maybe in search of food, and they're coming to Margaret's garden in search of food.
VT:
So she just spelled out something like, "Do not feed".
SFX:
(group laughing)
VT:
That's not 11 markings, is it? "Do not feed."
Geoff:
Or, "Help, my owner isn't feeding me."
SFX:
(group laughing)
Geoff:
What? A tortoise had written on its own shell. (laughs)
Tom:
VT, you said something earlier that you kind of moved away from, which was just making sure that this was a live tortoise.
VeeVee:
Right.
VT:
Is it just not alive?
VeeVee:
So, yeah. So I'm thinking, did Margaret find a shell in her garden, thought that it might have been a live tortoise, and then brought it to the— yeah, brought it to the wildlife reserve.
Tom:
Getting very close here. Not just a shell, though. Like, it was...
VeeVee:
Oh, was it... it was actually a squirrel that was inside a shell?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Oh! Oh, no! No.
VeeVee:
Okay, wrong spectrum! Okay, okay.
Tom:
I love the image of that happening where you get to the wildlife rescue centre, put the shell down, and then just a bushy tail comes out one side, and they're very confused for a little while. No, no. This... I have missed one word out of the question here. Margaret definitely brought a tortoise, but there's an adjective we've kind of skipped over there.
VeeVee:
A dead tortoise?
Tom:
Not live, not dead.
Geoff:
Hibernating.
VT:
Not live, not dead. A stuffed toy?
Geoff:
Oh, it's not a real tortoise!
Tom:
It's not a real tortoise!
VeeVee:
No!
Geoff:
(chuckles)
Tom:
So what might those 11 markings— those 11 letters have been? Bear in mind, this thing is good enough to fool someone into thinking that it's a real tortoise.
VeeVee:
Like, "Made in China"?
Tom:
Spot on!
SFX:
(VT and VeeVee laugh)
Geoff:
Ah!
Tom:
That is 11 letters. "Made in China" were on the underside of the tortoise.
This is Margaret Parker, who spotted what she thought was a baby tortoise in her garden. She brought it inside. It wouldn't eat. She brought it to the Knoxwood Wildlife Rescue Centre, explained it had no appetite, and the volunteer put on their glasses, turned over the tortoise and saw, "Made in China".
George Scott, the founder of the rescue centre, said, "She did the right thing. A lot of these ceramic models can be very convincing".
Geoff, we will go over to you for the next question, please.
Geoff:
Alright. Hello.
This question's been sent in by Jessalynn. Okay. The question is:
Buses, street cars, and light rail vehicles in San Francisco often have the word 'PARTICULAR' – 'PARTICULAR' – on their destination sign. Why is that?
Buses, street cars, and light rail vehicles in San Francisco often have the word 'PARTICULAR' on their destination sign. Why is that?
VT:
Buses, street cars, and...
Geoff:
Light rail...
Tom:
Light rail.
Geoff:
Vehicles. I love that I've been given a transport-themed question, by the way, Producer David. Thank you very much.
VeeVee:
And they had it on their— Sorry, did you say their destination?
Tom:
The destination board, so that's gonna be the thing at the front that tells the passengers where it's going.
Geoff:
The word 'particular' is there.
Tom:
Those are very different things. Like, in San Francisco, your buses run... you know, all around the city and the area. Street cars on a few lines, but light rail is a whole separate system with separate lines?
Geoff:
I mean, light rail I would just say is trams. To me that means trams. Maybe the Americans call trams 'light rail'. I don't know. Who's been to San Francisco? Who's ridden a street car?
Tom:
That's me. That's— yeah.
VT:
I've—
Tom:
They have the BART. They have Bay Area Rapid Transit, which is, if you imagine the Docklands Light Railway, Geoff, just much worse.
Geoff:
Oh, no, I've been. Oh, yeah.
Tom:
Okay.
Geoff:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. When I asked my own question, I have also been there. Okay, yes.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Geoff:
What's wrong with the DLR? Come on! (laughs)
Tom:
Nothing! I'm just saying BART's worse!
Geoff:
Oh, I see!
VT:
You said the word 'particular' is... Is it on the vehicle, or on the destination sign?
Geoff:
It's on the destination sign, yeah. The word 'particular' is there.
VT:
And I'm guessing it's followed by other words, or there are other words that comes before that.
Tom:
Nowhere in particular. They're just incredibly whimsy streets with— incredibly whimsical street cars that don't follow an actual route. The light rail just goes to any destination the driver feels like.
Geoff:
Tom. You—
Tom:
Don't.
Geoff:
You've—
Tom:
No!
Geoff:
(laughs) Well, you've said it, but you haven't given the right reason. (laughs)
Tom:
Why could— Okay! No, there's no— Why would a light rail have 'nowhere in particular' on the front? It— That's the opposite of a railway! That's literally the— a railway is a rail! It goes to a place! It can't go nowhere in particular!
VeeVee:
I mean, I get it, though, because I've been to Lisbon or Prague, where you do take these vehicles for tourist pictures, and you do it for, like— like an attraction— a tourist attraction. Could this be— I can see the attraction in it. I can see people going to San Francisco and, like, take a street car. Get an Instagram photo.
Geoff:
So I can confirm that Tom is exactly right. It says, "Nowhere in particular", but you haven't got the reason why, so I feel— I'm not giving all the points yet. You need to get why. (laughs)
Tom:
Okay.
Geoff:
I can confirm there is no place called "Particular" in the San Francisco area.
VeeVee:
And it's not to do with the attraction of it? Like, not to do with—
Geoff:
Not in a tourist sense, no.
VT:
Oh? I mean, I've been to cafés and restaurants where they... put vehicles together as booths, and you sit there to dine in. So it's not for tourists, but it's for visitors.
Geoff:
I'm gonna— I'll give you my own clue that's not on my question sheet. If you saw that coming down the road towards you as a tram going to Nowhere in Particular, what would you think?
Tom:
I'd be tempted to get on board that, to be honest. That's...
Geoff:
(guffaws) Well then— then it's not working.
SFX:
(both laughing)
VT:
So is it truly that it does not have a destination or is it just hidden from—
Geoff:
No, no, go on! You—yeah.
VT:
Potential passengers.
Geoff:
No, go on— what— the first bit. What you just said, yeah. It has—
VT:
So there's no destinations?
Geoff:
Well, it does have a destination, but it's—it's—ah, it's so—
Tom:
It's just out of service?
Geoff:
There we go! (laughs)
VeeVee:
Oh!
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
They choose "Nowhere in Particular" for "out of service", for whimsy?
Geoff:
Yeah! (laughs) Since 1959, public transport in San Francisco has used the preset destination of "Nowhere in Particular" when they are out of service or repositioning their vehicles. To dis— It's to discourage you from getting on, which is hilarious, Tom, 'cause you're like, "Oh, I'm so getting on that!" (laughs heartily)
Tom:
"Out of service", I understand. "Nowhere in particular", that is a— as a tourist, like, sure. That's whimsy. Let's go there.
Geoff:
You'd be like, "Yeah, where does that go? I need to—" Yeah, I'd do the same, except I knew this. I'd heard of this before, so when I got this as my question, I was like, "I know this!"
SFX:
(both laughing)
VT:
I thought it was one of those mystery destinations that you pay probably too much to go on.
Tom:
Oh, yeah. Magical Mystery Tour.
Geoff:
Oh, but now what will happen is that some enterprising person somewhere— They renamed a town, like, in New Mexico, somebody will now rename a place or their town or village to "Particular" so that you'll say— so you can now say you're going to Particular.
Tom:
And then open a bar called Nowhere.
Geoff:
Nowhere, yeah! (laughs)
Tom:
Our next question comes from Cliff. Thank you very much, Cliff.
In 1963, CC Williams spent hours jumping up and down on the spot, the night before his exam. Why?
In 1963, CC Williams spent hours jumping up and down on the spot, the night before his exam. Why?
Geoff:
Because the exam was in some kind of... trampolining gymnastic skill?
Tom:
Sorry, when you said trampoline, Geoff—
Geoff:
Oh, no!
Tom:
My brain— I heard tram. And then I was just surprised by "poline" because we'd just been spending so long talking about trams. Carry on. Sorry.
Geoff:
I think they're some kind of athlete, and the jumping is part of, like, a warm-up.
VeeVee:
My mind kind of goes to, like, you know when people say, like, when you listen to— throughout the night, if you listen to the— your notes, you will have that memorised? Is this some kind of ritual where it's like, if you listen to your notes, and you jump up and down, you can memorise it better?
VT:
I was just gonna say that before exams... there are people who would punch... What do you call it? Air punch? Or punch the air?
Tom:
Shadowboxing.
VT:
And that's just to get— yeah, to get your adrenaline going.
Tom:
Mm.
VT:
And it's not a physical exam. Or it's not some sort of sports that they are involved in. But it's just a written exam, and people actually do that to get themselves ready for the exam. So... I think it heavily relies on what the exam is, whether it involves any physical activities.
Tom:
Those are all very sensible answers. But not necessarily lateral ones here. I think I'm gonna say drill in on some of the other reasons that might be in here and some of the other exams that might be involved.
Geoff:
Wait, hang on. It's not like a dope test thing or something, and he's trying to sort of get something out of his system, is it or something? No? Okay, no.
VT:
Like, sweating out.
Geoff:
Yeah, yeah. He's sweating out some kind of substance.
VT:
Ahhh.
VeeVee:
Yeah, or, like, is CC Williams a human? I'm gonna ask the question again.
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
VeeVee:
Is CC Williams a panda?
Geoff:
Or a tortoise.
Tom:
CC Williams is a human.
VeeVee:
Okay.
VT:
And is that a physical exam that he has to pass? So—
Tom:
Yeah, it's not a written exam here.
VT:
Okay, so it's a physical exam that he has to pass and... I mean, boxers have to lose weight. Is CC Williams some sort of athlete like a boxer?
Geoff:
What, they're trying to, like, burn up a pound of energy and sweat by just doing some vigorous exercise to get them under a threshold?
VT:
I mean, some of them wrap themselves in cling film so that they can sweat a bit more before—
Geoff:
Wr— No! I've never— Is that a thing? I've never heard that.
VT:
Don't they do that? Did I just make that up?
Geoff:
I'm totally gonna Google that later. Okay. Alright. I've learned something. That's amazing. Okay. Alright.
VeeVee:
Is there something in the year as well? Like, in the '60s? Was it—
Tom:
Oh! Good spot that this is 1963. That is relevant. Couldn't have happened before I think the late '50s here.
Geoff:
What was invented in the '50s, everyone? Think. When did television come in? '40s? '50s? Was it some kind of exercise thing on TV? Was it the first ever exercise show on television?
Tom:
VT, when you talked about losing weight to try and meet an arbitrary threshold, something along those lines, yes. He's trying to meet a single very specific requirement. It's not weight.
VeeVee:
Height?
VT:
Oh!
Tom:
Yes!
VeeVee:
I mean, yeah, I've definitely heard of myths where you jump up and down to get taller.
Geoff:
What, 'cause it uncompresses your spine or something? What? No? What?
Tom:
(chuckles)
VeeVee:
Yeah, I've definitely heard of those before.
Tom:
You are correct with height, VeeVee, but it's actually the other way around. He is trying to compress his spine.
VT:
By jumping up and down?
Tom:
By jumping up and down. So temporarily for the exam the next day, he would be shorter.
Geoff:
No, 'cause I'm thinking, like, if you applied to be in the army or the police, they want— there's a height— there's a minimum height, not, like, you wanna be taller, not shorter.
Tom:
Mm. Yes.
Geoff:
If you wanna go on a— on a roller coaster ride, you have to be a minimum height. Taller, not shorter.
Tom:
Oh, now you're close, Geoff. You're very close.
Geoff:
Oh, oh, roller coasters! (wheezes)
Tom:
(cracks up) And my notes say he managed to temporarily compress his spine enough to measure under six feet and technically satisfy the requirement.
Geoff:
Right.
Tom:
Now, how much of that is actually due to the jumping, don't know, but apparently it did work just temporarily.
Geoff:
So there's a theme park which has a maximum—
Tom:
Oh, it's not roll— it might feel like a roller coaster, Geoff, but it isn't.
VeeVee:
Like jockeys?
VT:
A jockey?
Tom:
Oh, they do have to be short! But not jockeys here, no.
Geoff:
No, but you got very excited when I said roller coasters.
Tom:
I did! Because this has been described like that.
Geoff:
Oh.
Tom:
As being the greatest roller coaster there could ever be.
VeeVee:
Like F1 drivers?
Tom:
Close. Wrong axis.
VT:
Do you have to be short if you want to go into a submarine?
Tom:
VT, with submarine, you couldn't be more wrong.
VeeVee:
(wheezes)
Geoff:
Hot air balloon, for some reason? My brain has gone to—
Tom:
Literally getting closer, Geoff.
Geoff:
Oh...
VeeVee:
Oh, astronaut.
Tom:
Astronaut! Yes!
SFX:
(Geoff and VeeVee laugh)
Tom:
For NASA's third astronaut selection in 1963, candidates had to be no taller than six feet, because the spacecraft were cramped. CC Williams was a highly-qualified test pilot, but he was ever so slightly taller than six feet.
Geoff:
What?
Tom:
So, the night before his exam, he spent hours jumping up and down on the spot trying to compress his spine and just get in under the limit.
VT:
And then when he was in space, did he extend back to his normal height?
Tom:
So this is a question we've had on Lateral before, and yes, that happens! Astronauts get taller and they have to have their space suits measured a couple centimetres too big because after a few days in space, they will get taller.
VT:
And too bad he couldn't jump to a shorter height while in space.
Geoff:
I feel I should ask the physicist in the room. Do you—your spine does compress over many, many decades so that you're much shorter in your 70s than you were in your 20s by about a centimeter. Is that true?
VT:
I also heard that if you sleep on your back, and if you sleep on a hard bed, you actually get taller 'cause you straighten out your spine. I need to do that.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
VT, we will go over to you for the next question, please.
VT:
Right. This question was sent in by Jeff Winer.
Why might paediatrics students be asked for the normal range of porcelain in a child's blood, thanks to [the] Harriet Lane Handbook?
About to read that again.
Why might paediatrics students be asked for the normal range of porcelain in a child's blood, thanks to the Harriet Lane Handbook?
Tom:
Wow.
Geoff:
Porcelain?
SFX:
(Tom and VeeVee chuckle)
Tom:
There were so many words in that question!
VeeVee:
So I got paediatrics, porcelain, child's blood, and Harriet Lane's Handbook. Are the—
Tom:
The notes that you take during the show are ridiculous. They look like a crime description.
Geoff:
Do people normally have levels of porcelain in their blood? Is that a thing?
Tom:
Not that I know of.
Geoff:
Right.
VT:
That's a very valid question.
SFX:
(Tom and Geoff laugh)
Tom:
So, porcelain's gotta be a stand-in for something. I know very little about paediatrics.
VeeVee:
And it's specifically pediatrics, so... you would look for porcelain in a child's blood, but not necessarily an adult's blood?
VT:
This could be applicable to adults, too, I would say, though the scenario here is that we are using the scenario with paediatric students, but the same handbook could be given to other fields in medicine.
Geoff:
Porcelain. Why porcelain? What's— Porcelain is normally used for pottery and crockery, right?
VT:
Yeah, you make pots, you make... yeah. It's clay.
Tom:
I'm just doing free association in my head. It's the name of a Moby album.
Geoff:
Yeah, I was thinking Moby. I thought that, too! I thought, "I don't wanna say that." "Tom's said it. That's fine."
SFX:
(Geoff and Tom laugh)
Tom:
It's fine. I'll be the one that looks ridiculous in this episode. Okay.
Geoff:
I was humming Moby in my head, yeah. Porc—uh—
Tom:
Not any of his songs. Just the word "Moby" over and over again.
Geoff:
(chuckles)
VeeVee:
Geoff, I think you mentioned something about porcelain in blood. Like, do we normally have porcelain in blood?
Geoff:
I wouldn't have thought so.
Tom:
No, there's no way. It's fired clay, that. So that's a manufactured thing. If that's in blood, something's gone really wrong. So, what is it a metaphor for?
VeeVee:
Yes.
Geoff:
I was gonna say, it's not like there was a porcelain factory somewhere and then there was a disaster and then lots of porcelain particles were in the air, you know, for, like, months on end and all the local population got— breathed in porcelain fumes or something.
VeeVee:
Is it, like, for example, an—like, a percentage of calcium is porcelain or something? Like, I'm thinking along the lines of—
VT:
Ah! Hey, who knows whether you can make clay out of calcium, but... but I think you were right in doubting that anybody would have porcelain in their blood.
Tom:
(laughs) Okay, so in that case, it's the question you ask to make sure the other person's paying attention.
Geoff:
Yeah.
Tom:
And you want an answer of zero. Or you want an answer of, "No, what? Can't— Don't understand you," just to double check the numbers?
VT:
That is very close.
Tom:
Oh, okay. But why porcelain specifically? I mean, there is porcelain doll as a phrase. Like, there used to be— I don't know if they're popular anymore, but they used to be quite rigid porcelain dolls of children that people would collect. So that's an association with paediatrics.
VT:
I think you got the first part already, saying that is to test whether somebody's paying attention or not. But why would they include it in a paediatric student handbook?
VeeVee:
Is it a euphemism for something else? Like...
VT:
Mm, not quite. Not quite.
Geoff:
Did you put a date on this? Is this, like, back in the 1960s? This is a very old handbook? It's not a modern handbook?
VT:
This is a pretty old handbook, but they do update it afterwards. Apparently they have different edits of this, and the concentration of porcelain in blood would change later on with each edit.
Tom:
Okay. What if rather than wanting a zero reply, like, what if it's like, in the handbook, if that's filled out, you know the student is lying about having done their homework? 'Cause they've just put random numbers in each one? It doesn't— ah, it doesn't quite hold together.
VT:
It's almost the opposite of that. It's like—it's almost like the student is too studious or they've read the handbook one too many times.
Geoff:
So it's just to count how many people have read a certain book? How many— a percentage of people are paying attention? They're just— They want to know how many times—
VT:
Those who have read the handbook would know this number. And I'm thinking of— all my medical knowledge and knowledge about hospitals come from Scrubs.
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
VT:
So think about how in Scrubs, they always have medical rounds. I think they're called rounds, right?
Tom:
Yeah, the—
VT:
Where they're asked questions from somebody who's more senior than they are.
VeeVee:
Oh, so could it be like... if someone has just ticked it off? Without checking that question? They would know that they kind of just did a lazy job?
VT:
Yeah, so, like somebody who— with a photographic memory might be able to read that patient handbook and just give you the number of the concentration of porcelain in someone's blood. But then the "moral" of the story is that... they don't want paediatric students or medical students in general to just memorise hard facts. They want them to think outside the box, really question what they're reading or the facts that they've been given, and think... think laterally rather than focusing on facts.
Tom:
It's a trap, basically. It's so the medical student learns to go, "Porcelain?"
VeeVee:
Right.
Tom:
Because if the seniors made an error, they need to be able to call them on that. That sort of thing?
Geoff:
Wow.
VT:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
VeeVee:
Ah.
VT:
So it's basically a prank that's passed on...
SFX:
(group laughing)
VT:
So this is the Harriet Lane Handbook, which is a medical guide, and for decades its editors have quietly included a fictional laboratory entry for the normal range of porcelain in blood, and currently I think it stands at 9 to 21.11 milligrams per deciliter.
SFX:
(Tom and VeeVee laugh)
VT:
And that number, although it sounds really exact, are just based on editors' birthdays or anniversaries, and that's why I was saying that, when they update the next edit of the handbook, that number's gonna change periodically. And this prank, they expose students to— who relied just on photographic memories without questioning any possibility. And it also reinforces a core lesson of medicine so you shouldn't be accepting everything you read uncritically, and even from a trusted source like the Harriet Lane Handbook.
Tom:
Which just leaves us with the question from the very start of the show.
Thank you to Aaron Mason for sending this in.
What do Céline Dion and the song "Old MacDonald Had a Farm" have in common?
Does anyone wanna take a quick guess at that before I give the audience the answer?
Geoff:
Both in the same key or tempo of one of Céline's hits? I don't know. (chuckles)
Tom:
It's not a chord sequence but—
VeeVee:
EIEIO?
Tom:
Keep going, VeeVee.
VeeVee:
Like, Céline Dion, like, CELIO? (giggles)
Tom:
Yes, the vowels in Céline Dion are EIEIO in order. Well done, VeeVee.
Thank you to all of our players. Where can people find you? What's going on in your lives?
We will start with Geoff.
Geoff:
Geoff with a G, Geoff Marshall. I make transport and railway-based YouTube videos. Click for all that kind of good stuff.
Tom:
VeeVee!
VeeVee:
I'm VeeVee TV. All the daily news and interesting happenings around the world, you can find on my Instagram and YouTube.
Tom:
And VT.
VT:
Hi, there. It's VT Physics here. I do physics and science videos debunking fake science every day.
Tom:
And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are free weekly video episodes on Spotify.
Thank you very much to VT Physics.
VT:
Thank you.
Tom:
To VeeVee TV.
VeeVee:
Thanks, everyone.
Tom:
And to Geoff Marshall.
Geoff:
Thanks, everyone. Thank you.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Aaron Mason, Jeff Winer, Julien, Jessalynn, Eli Gorauskas, JP Etcheber, Cliff |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |