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Episode 213: Zebra and banana leaf
6th November, 2026 • Charlotte McDonnell, Libby Watson and Daniel Peake face questions about double doors, creator cameos and Mickey Mouse.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
In Turkish, it's French. In English, it's Greek. And in German, it's a railway station announcement. What is it? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Hello, and welcome to "Lateral." Before we begin, we do need to deal with a little bit of admin here. Several items have recently been handed into the Lateral Lost Property Office. We are trying to return them to their rightful owners. I have a tape measure that was used to determine if something was bigger than a bread box, a large envelope marked "Do not open yet," and a very suspicious coconut. There's also a bag of marbles which, ironically, someone has lost. If any former guests want to reclaim any of those items, please submit your claim within eight weeks of this episode. Let's turn our attention to the three guests that we have found to play "Lateral" today. First of all, from "What's All This Then," welcome back to the show Charlotte McDonnell.
Charlotte:
Hello. Yes, I have returned. And... I always have my marbles with me, personally.
Tom:
Just ready to go there!
Charlotte:
So, they're not my marbles because I like to have mine around to make sure I've never lost them, you know?
Tom:
For those in audio, could you give your marbles a rattle, please?
SFX:
(marbles rattling inside jar)
Tom:
Relieving rattling. Thank you very much.
Charlotte:
Can't remember why I bought a bunch of marbles and— nor why I keep them on my desk, but here we are.
Tom:
But it was worth it for that joke. Thank you very much. How was your first time on "Lateral?"
Charlotte:
It was really fun. I like that it is, like, mostly me just saying the stupid stuff that comes into my head and then sometimes that turned out to be correct.
Tom:
Right? That's great!
Charlotte:
So that's good.
Tom:
You should also tell us a little bit about the podcast. I'll go over to your cohost in a minute but what is the podcast?
Charlotte:
The podcast is called "What's All This Then." It is about British culture. It is mostly me and my cohost Libby just sort of making fun of our former home 'cause I moved to Canada. Libby moved to Los Angeles. And so the UK has sort of become a foreign country to us now, which is fun.
Tom:
Which brings me to, live from Los Angeles, Libby Watson. Welcome back to the show.
Libby:
Hello. Thank you so much for having me again. It's been such a long time.
Tom:
I know, right? We— absolutely keeping that fiction going. How was your first time on the show?
Libby:
Terrifying. Thank you so much for asking. But I think I did okay. I think it was at least funny when I was very stupid, which is the best I can hope for.
Tom:
What has the podcast been talking about lately?
Libby:
Ooh, let's take a look. We did "Donkey Kong Country." That was really, really fun.
Charlotte:
That was really fun. That was made in, like, a shed. Like, in a farm outside a small village.
Libby:
Yes.
Tom:
Is that a British game?
Libby:
It is a British game.
Charlotte:
Yeah. "Donkey Kong Country" is a British game.
Tom:
Huh!
Libby:
Yes, and I think we should maybe petition to have the "Donkey Kong Country" music replace the national anthem because it's the best thing that's ever been written on British soil, for sure.
Tom:
Well, very best of luck to both of you with the show today. We are joined by an old hand at "Lateral." Puzzle editor for "The Telegraph" and I think doing some work for "Only Connect" now as well. Dan Peake, how's it going?
Dan:
Yes, indeed. Less with the "old" in the "old hand." Thank you very much.
Libby:
Yeah.
Dan:
But yes. I— We are filming the next series of "Only Connect", and I'm very much involved in that and I have a new, special role this year.
Tom:
Oh!
Dan:
I get to terrorise the contestants! Oh, it's so much fun!
Tom:
Could you defi— "Only Connect" is the fluffiest, most friendly game show possible other than the questions. How on Earth are you terrorising the contestants?
Dan:
I do a rehearsal with them before the show.
Tom:
Oh, yeah.
Dan:
So I put the fear of god into them. Ah, poor, poor souls. They don't know what's coming.
Tom:
Does that mean you're standing in for the host? You're in Victoria Coren's seat pinging the questions—
Dan:
I may have sat in her seat.
Tom:
Oh. An honour, no doubt.
Dan:
Indeed. I'm assuming they have new cushions for her, because you wouldn't wanna use the same cushions as me. No, no, no, no, no, no.
Tom:
Absolutely not. Also, still on Twitch?
Dan:
Still on Twitch, yes. I am QuizzyDan.
Tom:
Well, good luck today. Let's see if you can put everything back in its rightful place with question one. This question has been sent in by Adam Jeff. In Sydney, why might the Chinese Laundry be a good place to spot twice as many Eastern Spinebills? Good luck. I'll read that again. In Sydney, why might the Chinese Laundry be a good place to spot twice as many Eastern Spinebills?
Charlotte:
Okay, well first off, does anyone know what an Eastern Spinebill is?
Dan:
It's a Spinebill from the eastern.
Libby:
Yeah, that sounds perfectly plausible to me.
Dan:
Yes, we all know that.
Charlotte:
Mhm.
Dan:
I know what laundry is.
Libby:
Mhm.
Tom:
Good. That's a good thing to know.
Libby:
You should, probably. Yeah, you do need to know about that.
Dan:
Yeah.
Libby:
Yeah. Eastern Spinebill. So a bill is something a bird has.
Tom:
It is.
Dan:
It does sound like a bird.
Tom:
It is a bird. Yes.
Charlotte:
It is a bird.
Tom:
It is a bird.
Libby:
Okay, great. And so why would they be at the Chinese laundry?
Dan:
Well, they're doing their laundry, obviously.
Libby:
Does Chinese Laundry mean something specifically? There's a shoe brand in the US called Chinese Laundry.
Tom:
It used to be— I mean, partly stereotype, partly fact, that a lot of laundries and laundromats were run by Chinese immigrants. But in this case...
Libby:
Okay.
Tom:
it's not where you clean your clothes.
Dan:
Oh!
Libby:
Aww.
Charlotte:
Oh.
Libby:
Aww.
SFX:
(Tom and Dan laugh)
Libby:
Aw.
Dan:
Darn.
Tom:
I wouldn't focus too much on that right now.
Libby:
Think about bird. Alright, what kind of— Sydney bird. Sydney bird.
Charlotte:
That's funny 'cause I really thought, "Oh, it's gonna be, like, a— like a bird pattern on, like, laundry or something."
Tom:
Closer than you might think, Charlotte. It is a bird pattern or design.
Dan:
Ooh!
Charlotte:
Okay! Okay, so not a real bird. Gotcha.
Tom:
Not a real bird.
Charlotte:
And twice as much, so you would see this pattern elsewhere but just... less often?
Tom:
You would see twice as many of these birds, even if it's not the real birds.
Libby:
Is it on, like, the flag of Sydney or something like that?
Tom:
Not the flag but, again, getting close.
Dan:
You know, I was thinking, like, flag of Australia or something, but that's not got any birds on it. So it's going to be an emblem with two... what is the... But it's— you specifically said Sydney, so it's not gonna be like the state crest of Australia or something, but it's gonna have two of those birds on, and somewhere else there's only gonna be one.
Tom:
Not qui— Unfortunately, Dan, pretty much all your assumptions there were wrong.
Dan:
Brilliant!
Libby:
Awesome.
Dan:
Brilliant.
Charlotte:
It sounded like it was gonna be really smart.
Tom:
The Chinese laundry's one of quite a few places where this might be easier to spot, and you're gonna spot twice as many there.
Charlotte:
'Cause they got a mirror in there.
Tom:
(cackles) They've got something.
Libby:
For the bird.
Tom:
They've got something.
Dan:
Who's a pretty boy, then?
Libby:
(snickers)
Tom:
There are some other Australian icons near the Spinebill.
Libby:
Is it on the flag of New South Wales?
Tom:
Not the flag. And this is across Australia. But you're right to be thinking in terms of, like, things associated with a country.
Dan:
Currency?
Libby:
Oh, coins!
Tom:
Currency. Yes. Not coins. We're talking bank notes here.
Charlotte:
But Libby got so excited when she said coins.
SFX:
(Tom and Dan laugh)
Charlotte:
Can it not just be coins?
Libby:
I was thinkin about the shiny coins.
Tom:
It can't, and— What do you mean by the shiny coins?
Libby:
'Cause it's reflective. We're talking about mirror. Maybe you see it twice.
Tom:
It's not that, but... if we're thinking about bank notes... I would keep thinking about the features that are there.
Libby:
Oh, is it like... the reflective... what's it called? Like a watermark or whatever to show that it's real?
Tom:
Yes. Those sort of security features. Yes. There is one spinebill on the Australian five dollar note. There is another spinebill in UV ink on the five dollar note.
Dan:
Oh.
Tom:
So what or where might the Chinese Laundry be?
Dan:
Gotta be somewhere that uses a UV light.
Tom:
Yes.
Dan:
So that you can see both of them but...
Tom:
Mhm.
Dan:
When I think of UV light these days, I immediately think, "Escape room!" 'Cause it's one of the—
Tom:
(laughs)
Dan:
one of the overused puzzles is, oh, halfway through, you get a UV light, and now you can see all the things you couldn't before and it's overused. But it's not gonna be an escape room.
Libby:
Okay, so I was thinking about at the nail salon, you put your nails in under the UV light for it to dry faster.
Tom:
All good thoughts. The Chinese Laundry I think is an old building that did used to be a Chinese laundry, that has now been repurposed to something else.
Dan:
Is it a nightclub?
Tom:
Yes, it is, Dan.
Dan:
(guffaws)
Charlotte:
Ah!
Libby:
Ah!
Dan:
(mimics techno beat)
Tom:
So if you take your five dollar note out in the Chinese laundry, you may well see twice as many Eastern Spinebills as you might otherwise because the UV lights will show not just the one on the note but also the one in the UV ink.
Charlotte:
Finally something to make me go clubbing is a nerdy little money thing.
SFX:
(Tom and Charlotte laugh)
Libby:
Oh, did you guys know?
Charlotte:
(snickers)
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We will start today with Charlotte.
Charlotte:
Okay, this question has been sent in by Elena. When Eunice was choosing her seat, she looked at a windowpane, a scallop, a zebra, a banana leaf and a Greek key. Why? When Eunice was choosing her seat, she looked at a windowpane, a scallop, a zebra, a banana leaf and a Greek key. Why?
Dan:
Because she was out of her mind!
Libby:
Yeah, she just didn't know what— didn't know what she was doing, honestly.
Charlotte:
So many crazy things she was seeing.
Dan:
Yes indeed.
Tom:
For the folks listening in audio, we also do not get the question written down. For the folks in video, good luck. You saw that in front of you. You have time to process that. I just have some scribbled notes.
Dan:
I didn't even take notes. I'm just wingin' it.
Libby:
Yeah.
Charlotte:
And I'm not gonna repeat it, either. I've said it twice. That's all I was asked to do. You guys figure it out now.
Dan:
There was a banana, a zebra— no, hang on, it was a banana leaf?
Charlotte:
Banana leaf. Yes.
Dan:
Those are big!
Tom:
Windowpane, scallop, zebra, banana leaf, Greek key.
Dan:
What is a Greek key?
Libby:
A Greek key?
Tom:
I've been trying to think of any Eunices I know that are famous and here is an incredibly niche reference that actually I've— Charlotte, Libby, have you ever talked about "Gladiators" on your show?
Libby:
Oh, no, but that would be so good to do!
Charlotte:
No, but we're putting that in the dock for episode ideas right now.
Tom:
Alright, well particularly compare it to the American one. 'Cause the American one is cheap as hell and the British revamp that's just come back is— it's popular again.
Libby:
Oh my god.
Charlotte:
Whoa.
Tom:
Weirdly – and where this came from, I don't know – a "Gladiators" contestant called Eunice Huthart. Thank you, Dan, who's just put a sign with "Huthart" on there who apparently also remembers this odd name
Dan:
Yes!
Tom:
from our childhoods.
Dan:
Was a contestant on "Gladiators" and was such a good athlete. Did she eventually become a Gladiator as well?
Tom:
Oh, I think so. I think she might have done. Back in the doldrum seasons when not many people were watching anymore. Oh, and later became a stunt actress. Thank you very much to Producer David there. I'm guessing it's not Eunice Huthart the stunt actress.
Charlotte:
No, the name has nothing to do with it.
Tom:
OK.
Charlotte:
But I wasn't gonna stop you talking about that.
Libby:
no, I wanted to hear everything I could about Eunice Huthart, but...
Dan:
Zebra is black and white or white and black. Not sure which.
Tom:
Window— Did you say windowpane?
Charlotte:
Windowpane, yes. And don't forget choosing a seat.
Tom:
Which feels like a thing you do on a plane or train.
Libby:
Yes.
Tom:
But you could also just be going into a sofa shop.
Dan:
Oh! I quite like that idea. On a zebra print, yeah.
Libby:
Yeah, I like that.
Charlotte:
Yeah, I will say she was not going to sit in this seat. At least not immediately.
Libby:
What was she doing, then?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Dan:
So there were these five things. So I'm eschewing they were the o— Are those the only five seats or would there have been, like, other seats as well?
Charlotte:
I would say there are probably other options.
Tom:
Hold on. Hold on. Greek key. Are you spelling "key" K, E, Y, or are you spelling "chi" like the Greek alphabet letter?
Charlotte:
It is spelled key-E— K-E-Y in my document.
Tom:
Oh! 'Cause I started diagramming. Like, a windowpane looks like a square. A scallop has a shape. The zebra could be stripes. And I'm like, "Oh, it's the— it's the Greek sy—" It's not the Greek symbol.
Charlotte:
I know but you're really close with the sort of— the description of how they look.
Tom:
Okay.
Libby:
So what I'm thinking about is... Other languages either, like, hieroglyphs but not maybe hieroglyphs maybe in an Asian language. The symbols denote— you know, look like that, or they're nicknamed that or something. It's nicknamed "the windowpane" or something.
Dan:
It's got to transcend language, isn't it?
Tom:
Mm.
Libby:
Yeah.
Dan:
What is a scallop, can I just ask? 'Cause I don't really know.
Libby:
Little round shellfish things that you get at restaurants and they're expensive.
Tom:
Yeah.
Dan:
(snickers) Okay. So, but they're round, are they?
Tom:
Roundish. Kinda— well, shell-shaped.
Libby:
Yeah, the scallop itself is round, but maybe the shell it comes in is... Oh, hence scallops as a description of... a pattern so it would be like that.
Charlotte:
I can give you a couple of other examples of this type of thing
Tom:
Yeah.
Libby:
Great.
Charlotte:
...as well. Firework. And buffalo check. If either of those mean anything. Maybe that just made it more confusing.
Libby:
Buffalo check.
Tom:
Buffalo check is like that particular almost tartan pattern. Like, that's a lumberjack shirt.
Charlotte:
I mean, with pattern, you— you're basically— you're pretty much there.
Libby:
Oh!
Dan:
You say that. We're not.
Libby:
We're not.
Dan:
We're— ah. So why would you be choosing one of them?
Libby:
Wait, are we talking about choosing a fabric? Like a patterned fabric for your chair or your bottom? Your pants?
Charlotte:
Sorry to make you run on with that one, Libby, but that was too fun. Yes, we are talking about a fabric pattern.
Libby:
OK.
Charlotte:
That is— That is right. I mean, that is it. She's choosing between different fabric patterns for a seat that she is purchasing. So she's not gonna sit in it now.
Dan:
I see.
Tom:
So— okay, so windowpane is squareish? Like, square patterns?
Charlotte:
Windowpane, grid of squares. Scallop is, like, little half circles that kind of overlap.
Tom:
Zebra is gonna be stripes.
Dan:
Stripes.
Charlotte:
Yeah. Banana leaf and zebra basically just look like what they are. And then Greek key looks kinda like a labyrinth, like a repeating labyrinth-like pattern.
Libby:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlotte:
Like a maze.
Libby:
That's fun.
Charlotte:
It is fun. Now I don't think I would pick any of those patterns, 'cause I'm boring.
Tom:
No, I would pick a plain colour because— because everything around me is Millennial Grey. But, you know, that's—
Charlotte:
Exactly.
Libby:
I think I still hate Eunice. Sorry.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Charlotte:
Making sure Eunice is not a real person, I think we're good. (laughs)
Tom:
Thank you to both Ethan Levin and Sky for this next question. Walking around UC Berkeley, Jennifer noticed that many of the buildings had double door entrances, but only one door handle. Why? I'll say that again. Walking around UC Berkeley, Jennifer noticed that many of the buildings had double door entrances, but only one door handle. Why?
Charlotte:
Okay, are they automatic doors most of the time, but sometimes you have to use the handle?
Dan:
Is it like a split space bar which is becoming all the rage these days? It works on both sides.
Libby:
I hate that.
Tom:
Hold on. It's actually just a space bar with a split down the middle? Why would you not—
Dan:
Yeah.
Tom:
Why would you not just have a space bar?
Dan:
Because it's popular for gamers and you can sometimes reprogram the other half of the space bar because the space bar is a needlessly long key.
Libby:
It takes up a lot of real estate, yeah.
Dan:
So you can mod your keyboard so that maybe the other half is a— is an extra button.
Libby:
I promise to anyone who's thinking about watching my Twitch stream, I will never be an advanced-enough gamer to have that come up. Mostly playing cooking simulators, so... Okay, so UC Berkeley— Is this some insane American superstition like how they don't have a 13th floor in hotels?
Tom:
(laughs) I'm gonna let you all keep talking for a while.
Libby:
UC Berkeley specifically. It's something that's specific to UC Berkeley or Berkeley in California?
Tom:
Yes. Yeah, it is.
Libby:
Okay.
Tom:
I mean, it might be good to have a talk about anything you know about the place or its reputation.
Libby:
Yeah, okay, so though— I know there were big protests there in the '60s, maybe? Civil rights protests or anti-Vietnam protests? Like an occupation—
Tom:
Keep talking.
Dan:
Ooh.
Libby:
They occupied Berkeley... And then everything was fine in America forever.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Charlotte:
Yeah, I am thinking about the utility of, like, a fake door. Like a— do you— is it— are we designing this door without a handle so that people are gonna, like, try and get through it and then— I mean, I said fake door. I guess I don't know if it's a fake door or not.
Tom:
It is a real door.
Charlotte:
It is a real door.
Tom:
It is a real door. It just is missing one outside handle of two.
Libby:
Did the students take the handle off so that the cops couldn't come in when they were occupying the building?
Dan:
Or so that it couldn't be locked shut.
Tom:
That's it, Dan. Yes.
Dan:
Oh!
Charlotte:
Oh.
Dan:
'Cause if there were two handles, you could put a chain around both of them and then you couldn't get out. Tom and Libby: Yes.
Tom:
Absolutely right. UC Berkeley... has been and continues to be at the forefront of student activism and in what I'm pretty sure because they're next to each other on a keyboard is a typo, this does actually say "studentee activism" which feels vaguely patronising.
Libby:
Studentish.
Tom:
Studentee activism. You know. This was the Free Speech Movement, 1964 to five. Students chained the doors of a building together to prevent anyone from leaving. That's obviously not good for fire regulations or safety or anything like that. So the university removed one handle from every exterior double door and that continues to this day.
Dan:
Huh.
Libby:
Wow.
Tom:
Dan, we will head over to you, please.
Dan:
This question is based on an idea by Joseph Robidoux. So thank you very much. A Mickey Mouse turns $3 into $51. A basket turns $5 into $67. A picture frame turns $9 into $135. How? A Mickey Mouse turns $3 into $51. A basket turns $5 into $67. A picture frame turns $9 into $135. How?
Charlotte:
Alright, I'll say the stupid thing first. 'Cause I am thinking of, like... like a indie, like, roguelike game. Like, don't know if you guys are familiar with the game "Nubby's Number Factory," like, where you're picking up just, like, random items and you— in that game you would be like, "Yeah, I would get a Mickey Mouse, and now my balls are making the higher numbers." You know? So...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Libby:
Oh my god, I'm so glad you got "Nubby's Number Factory" in.
Charlotte:
Shoutout to "Nubby's."
Libby:
Shoutout. Shoutout on the line, yeah. I do think— I was thinking of, like, a slot machine. You know, like pictographs on a slot machine. Maybe you get three Mickey Mouse in a row and you get lots of money. I guess it's a Mickey Mouse, not three Mickey Mouse.
Dan:
Indeed, one Mickey Mouse.
Tom:
Having scribbled down the numbers I was trying to see if you could do, like, dollar bill substitutions. Like you've got three single dollars. Can you make 51 with three notes? And you can't.
Libby:
Also I will say we don't have Mickey Mouse on our currency here as much as you might like to imagine that.
Charlotte:
(laughs) You'll get there soon. We're adding beavers. You'll get Mickey Mouse.
Dan:
So this is useful in a complicated situation.
Tom:
It sounds like a complicated situation.
Dan:
(laughs)
Tom:
Those are all odd numbers. That might be a coincidence. But we've got three, five, nine, 51, 67, 135.
Dan:
It is sort of useful but will not help you—
Tom:
Won't actually help us solve the thing, right.
Dan:
Won't actually help you with this question. But when you were writing something down, Tom—
Tom:
Yeah.
Dan:
What were you— What were you writing down? You were scribbling something down.
Tom:
I was writing the key words and the numbers in the question.
Dan:
Ah. What is the link between Mickey Mouse and the number three?
Charlotte:
It's three circles.
Dan:
Yeah.
Libby:
Oh!
Dan:
Go with that.
Tom:
Huh.
Charlotte:
Three circles. OK.
Tom:
Basket. I'm thinking of basket in basketball. But that feels more like a betting odds question or something like that.
Dan:
Ah, interesting you should say that, though.
Tom:
I was thinking of gambling on a basket happening on a basketball game or something like that. And... this player shoots at this time and that... increases your money from five to 67? That's—
Dan:
It's not basketball. It's not quite sports betting.
Tom:
Has anyone done Polymarket with two l's yet where you're just betting on parrots?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
I'm just gonna check if pollymarket with two l's dot com is available just in case.
Libby:
Go for it.
Tom:
It ha— aww, someone's already got the domain.
Charlotte:
Ah.
Libby:
Ah.
Dan:
That's 'cause it's a funny idea, Tom, and they're all taken.
Libby:
Yeah, no, we don't have any more of those.
Charlotte:
Is this happening in, like, a casino or something? I feel like we're in the world of gambling and, like, math. So I'm very out of my depth.
Dan:
Definitely stick towards that.
Tom:
Could this be roulette? So if you play roulette, there are various bets you can make on the table. So you can play a number... Or you can play red, or you can play black, or you can play, like, in the intersections between numbers, and those mean things. So I'm wondering if a Mickey Mouse is a name for a particular type of roulette bet. Maybe a basket is like you put the chips between four numbers and that is the basket you're betting on.
Dan:
Tom, you're basically correct. Yes.
Libby:
Nice.
Charlotte:
Ooh!
Dan:
It is roulette bets. So if I tell you that it's roulette bets, try— what might the Mickey Mouse be? 'Cause you were saying geometric and circles, so based on that—
Charlotte:
It's like, three blank circles so I don't know if it's, like, three— trying to remember what a roulette wheel looks like.
Dan:
So Tom is exactly right in terms of you can't— you can... you can bet on just a number or you can bet on any of the intersections around it or the... the shared spaces between two numbers. So a corner bet—
Charlotte:
Okay.
Tom:
So, so three into 51 is 17... which is about a third of the numbers on a roulette wheel, so I'm gonna say a Mickey Mouse is a column of numbers.
Dan:
It's close. It looks like Mickey Mouse. It's one on a number and then two on corners up to the left and up to the right.
Tom:
Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Dan:
Looks like Mickey Mouse. And if you do that, if... so that's a correct number and two corner bets, that will pay out $51 for paying three $1 chips.
Tom:
Right.
Dan:
The basket is a U shape, and a picture frame is where you cover all nine spots. So if you think of a roulette number as a square, you can put your chip on the middle – like it's just the number – or you can put it in the eight spaces around it— the four corners and the four sides around it. So these are all pictorial bets in a roulette layout and this question is a personal anecdote from Joseph, who's been a roulette dealer for eight years.
Libby:
Wow.
Tom:
Thank you to Melvin from New Zealand for this question. Why did Tim deliberately wear prescription contact lenses, even though he already had perfect eyesight? I'll say that again. Why did Tim deliberately wear prescription contact lenses, even though he already had perfect eyesight?
Charlotte:
Oh, he just wanted to look really cool. He's got those cat eye lenses, right?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Dan:
Yeah!
Charlotte:
Borrowed them from a friend. "Oh, no, they're the wrong prescription, 'cause I've already got 20/20 vision. Oh, well. At least I look like a cat."
Libby:
What if he really, really loved his partner and wanted to see through their eyes? You know?
Tom:
Ooh.
Dan:
Ooh!
Charlotte:
Ooh.
Dan:
It's like opticians training. You've got to do one week shortsighted, one week longsighted.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
I like the idea— I'm not sure I like the idea. I'm intrigued by the idea of getting a photo of your partner's irises printed onto a contact lens. And then—
Dan:
Ooh! It's like flattery but creepy.
Tom:
I know someone who has something vaguely like that, because he lost an eye in an accident, and the prosthesis has a custom painted iris that matches his other one.
Libby:
That's so cool.
Tom:
It's so cool!
Libby:
Yeah.
Charlotte:
That's so cool.
Dan:
But it's not that, is it?
Tom:
(laughs) It's not that! No, it isn't! Sorry!
Dan:
(laughs)
Charlotte:
No. But it is cool.
Tom:
And I did say prescription contact lens.
Libby:
Prescription contact lens.
Dan:
So does that mean that that is changing his ability to see? So it's not a vanity thing?
Tom:
Yeah.
Libby:
But if you had good eyesight— but you— did you say perfect eyesight?
Tom:
Yeah, or near-perfect. Certainly no worries about eyesight here.
Libby:
Right, right, right.
Charlotte:
Mhm.
Dan:
So something's got to change.
Charlotte:
Is it filtering a particular colour, like, of light? Like a part of the spectrum of light?
Libby:
Oh! Like blue light glasses!
Charlotte:
Yeah.
Dan:
Ooh! Could you get— You could have prescription sunglasses. Could you get prescription contact lenses that are also sunglasses so it's just tiny little sunglasses over your pupils? Does that work? Would there be any reason why not to do that?
Libby:
'Cause it would be crazy 'cause sunglasses are cool, first of all.
Tom:
(laughs)
Libby:
Going around looking cool in my sunnies.
Dan:
"Oh, I've come inside. I need to take the glasses off." And you have to take your contact lenses out.
Libby:
Popping your eyes out.
Dan:
It would not be practical.
Libby:
It wouldn't, no, no.
Tom:
All these things are not prescription contact lenses.
Libby:
Right.
Tom:
The blue light, the— Even transitions lenses— I don't know if that's possible with contacts, but—
Libby:
Okay.
Tom:
This is prescription.
Libby:
Is there a type of eye affliction that isn't to do with your eyesight, your... What's the word I'm looking for? It's not to do with your prescription, as it were, you know, how well that you can see, but it's something else. It's like... you know, your cornea is scratched or something.
Tom:
No, it wasn't for any medical reason. It actually wasn't even to improve his vision.
Charlotte:
But it's also not cosmetic.
Tom:
I— Well, you said that he wanted to look really cool.
Libby:
(wheezes)
Charlotte:
I did.
Tom:
And I don't think that's true.
Charlotte:
Just look different?
Tom:
Yeah.
Libby:
But it's not, like, changing your eye colour for a— you know, like, you're an actor or whatever? You need to change your eye colour for a movie?
Tom:
Keep thinking, Libby.
Dan:
Oh?
Libby:
Mm, I don't think I can. I don't have anything left.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Dan:
I was thinking something different. I was thinking, so the eyeball deforms with pressure. So is it something to do with either less pressure, so, like, a pilot; or more pressure like a diver. But I don't know... how that would help.
Tom:
I would stick with "actor".
Dan:
Tom Cruise. He's a pilot and an actor.
Tom:
It's Tim, not Tom.
Libby:
Yes!
Dan:
Tim Cruise.
Tom:
(laughs)
Dan:
Very tiny pieces of eye protection.
Tom:
(laughs) Or to be fair, Tom Cruise did use contacts like that, for the stunt where he's hanging off the back of a plane. Like, full, massive contacts that cover the whole visible area of the eye so— in case there was grit as he went through the air at 100+ miles an hour.
Charlotte:
Like safety goggles but just for the eyeball.
Tom:
Yeah. You can get safety contact lenses if you are doing something like that.
Dan:
Wow.
Libby:
If you are Tom Cruise.
Tom:
If you are Tom Cruise, yes. Yes, you can. We're not quite that dramatic, but we are, if you like, still dramatic.
Dan:
Are they computerised in some way? AR contact lenses so you get your lines delivered straight to your eyeballs?
Tom:
They made his vision worse.
Libby:
They made his vision worse. Was that on purpose?
Dan:
Yeah, it's gotta be, isn't it?
Tom:
Mhm.
Dan:
Has he got to play a blind person, then, but not look— no, that's not what I mean, but... He needs to act and he want— he's a method actor, so wants poorer vision for his part.
Tom:
Yes.
Dan:
Okay.
Tom:
That's pretty much there. This is an actor who wanted the character to be more realistic. There is one other thing that he did.
Charlotte:
Is it, like, "I'm playing drunk", and this is sort of helping to, like, "Now my vision is worse, 'cause I'm just so wasted"?
Tom:
Well, if you wanted to realistically portray this character... and you as an actor did not have this affliction...
Libby:
I'd— Whatever the answer is, I like Charlotte's answer more.
Tom:
(blurts chuckle)
Charlotte:
(laughs)
Dan:
So this is gonna be a specific character that has a notable affliction, then.
Tom:
Not notable. Honestly, I think several of the people in this call have this affliction.
Libby:
ADHD?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
I can tell you for sure that at least one person I'm looking at has this affliction.
Dan:
Well, one person in the audio— in the video version of this, Charlotte's wearing glasses.
Tom:
Yes.
Charlotte:
I am wearing glasses.
Tom:
Charlotte is wearing glasses. So what might the actor be doing?
Dan:
Wearing glasses!
Tom:
The glasses are prescription as well!
Libby:
Ohhh!
Dan:
It'll be the reverse! Oh, for flip's sake!
Libby:
My god!
Tom:
Yes.
Libby:
That's so cool.
Tom:
This is a technique—
Charlotte:
Were they, like, particularly thick glasses so you couldn't fake it?
Tom:
This is a technique called Glasses Over Contacts, and this is Timothée Chalamet playing Marty Mauser in Marty Supreme. If you just wear non-prescription lenses, the refraction doesn't look right on camera. The actor won't apparently feel right. He wanted it to be realistic, so he got prescription glasses and underneath them wore prescription contacts with the opposite prescription, so it looks right on camera, and he's behaving right.
Dan:
Wow.
Libby:
Amazing.
Dan:
I love that.
Charlotte:
That Timmy.
Libby:
I love that.
Tom:
Libby, we'll get your question, please.
Libby:
This question has been sent in by Ian Morrison. Ooh, I really like this one. New Mexico has an official 'State question' in the form of "X or Y?". "If you don't want to make a choice, you could use the state's official answer of "Christmas". What are X and Y? New Mexico has an official 'State question' of the form "X or Y?". If you don't want to make a choice, you could use the state's official answer of "Christmas". What are X and Y?
Charlotte:
Ooh, this is fun, 'cause I know this one. So I'm just gonna shut up.
Libby:
Well, shut up. Shut up.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Charlotte:
(snickers)
Tom:
Okay.
Charlotte:
I know this one from being too much of a fan of Breaking Bad.
Tom:
Oh, of cour— Albuquerque. Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Libby:
Yes.
Tom:
Yes. I love that so many American states have an official state X.
Libby:
I know.
Tom:
Like, not just a bird but the official state dessert. The official state whatever.
Dan:
Smell.
Tom:
Yep. Yep.
Libby:
Yeah.
Dan:
Bone. It's great for pub quiz trivia, but how much of it is really true? It, like— It's like collective nouns for animals. They're basically just made up.
Libby:
No one uses them, yeah, exactly. I assume that a lot of the sort of, like, state desserts is like one day some legislator was bored and was like, "Alright, we should make it— Should we make it the cheesecake, I guess?"
Tom:
Yeah, yeah.
Libby:
Some guy from the cheesecake lobby gave him $1,000.
Tom:
(laughs) Right?
Charlotte:
(snickers)
Tom:
Okay, X or Y?
Dan:
Cash or card?
Tom:
(laughs) New or Mexico?
SFX:
(guests laugh uproariously)
Dan:
New or Mexico? Drought or flood?
Libby:
There you go.
Dan:
Sunshine or... day or night?
Libby:
No, I will say it's not—
Dan:
Cat or dog?
Libby:
(snickers) Okay, it's more like "cat or dog" than it is like "day or night" in that the choice is a sort of personal one.
Tom:
What words can go before "Christmas"? I'm thinking it's like a pun on there. You get asked to choose two. So Father Christmas. Merry Christmas.
Libby:
They're not saying Father Christmas in New Mexico. (laughs)
Charlotte:
(snickers)
Tom:
Sure, okay!
Libby:
They think it's— By the way, they think it's so funny that we call him Father Christmas.
Tom:
(laughs)
Charlotte:
(giggles)
Libby:
I just— I endlessly delight Americans by telling them that. "Oh, Father Christmas?" They love that.
Tom:
Or, what word can go after it? Again, it's not gonna be Christmas pudding 'cause that's a British thing.
Libby:
No, they hate that, too.
Dan:
Present. Past or present?
Libby:
I think the best way to think about this is not so much it's like, the choice is a personal one, but it's more of a, like, personal preference.
Tom:
Huh. Okay.
Libby:
What do people think— What do people have preferences about?
Tom:
Food... drink...
Dan:
Starter or dessert.
Tom:
Could be alcohol.
Libby:
Stay with food.
Tom:
Stay with food. Okay.
Libby:
Stay with food.
Dan:
Cake or lie?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Libby:
(blurts laugh)
Charlotte:
(snickers)
Tom:
Truth—
Dan:
That's a nerdy reference.
Tom:
Truth or consequences, which I'm pretty sure is a small town possibly in New Mexico that changed its name.
Dan:
It might be.
Libby:
Yeah, no, that is— and I happen to know
Tom:
that that is true, but that is not this.
Dan:
Chicken or beef?
Libby:
You're starting to get there, but...
Tom:
It's gotta be like a fast food thing. It's gotta be like some iconic American food.
Libby:
Oh, why would you say that about America?
Tom:
Yeah, right?
SFX:
(Dan and Charlotte giggle)
Tom:
It's gotta be some local American— It's gotta be what toppings you like on your hot dog or something like— that sort of thing that's divisive.
Libby:
You're getting so close. When can I—
Dan:
Dry or wet?
Libby:
Oh my god, you're so close! 'Cause that's also a thing.
Dan:
How about ketchup or mustard? It's going to be something like that, isn't it? Because they're like condiments.
Libby:
Oh, my god.
Dan:
Condiments of the season.
Tom:
Christmas is red and green. Or red and white.
Dan:
Oh, okay.
Tom:
Christmas is red and white. Ketchup or mayo? Christmas being both of them 'cause it's red and white!
Libby:
No, but it's so annoying, 'cause you had it.
Dan:
I thought you had that, Tom.
Tom:
I thought I had that.
Dan:
I was applauding and everything. I can't live that one down.
Charlotte:
I mean, you said red and green.
Libby:
You said red and green.
Tom:
It's red and green. You had two paths before you, and you—
Dan:
Ketchup or pesto?
Tom:
Then it's chili. It's red chili or green chili.
Libby:
That's right.
Tom:
Which is the two types in huge swathes of America.
Libby:
Yes, that's right.
Tom:
And Christmas must be both of them.
Libby:
Yes, 'cause Christmas is red and green, and that's the official state answer, is that you want both of them, so that they don't have to pick, presumably. People felt very strongly about whether red or green is better, and the— yes, it's the official state question of New Mexico. Charlotte, do you have a preference? Red or green?
Charlotte:
No, I've never tried— I mean, I've never been to New Mexico. Are you just asking about the colour or about chili?
Libby:
Well, I was asking about the chili, but sure if you have an answer for colour instead, let's hear it.
Charlotte:
Well, I know that your favorite colour is red, so I am gonna say green.
Libby:
Aww!
Charlotte:
And together— but Libby, together we're as happy as Christmas.
Libby:
We're as happy as Christmas, yes. Green chili is better, though, for real.
Charlotte:
Okay.
Dan:
(wheezes)
Tom:
Which means we have unlocked the shiny bonus question with some very quick solves there. Which creator had a cameo in the BBC TV drama Industry as Vivian Poulet-Magasin? I'll say that again. Which creator had a cameo in the BBC TV drama Industry as Vivian Poulet-Magasin?
Charlotte:
Still making TV in the UK?
Tom:
Ey up, they are still making TV over here, yes.
Charlotte:
(snickers)
Libby:
Oh, good for them.
Charlotte:
That's nice.
Dan:
Vivian Poulet-Magasin?
Tom:
Yes.
Libby:
Chicken magazine. Does Magasin mean something else in French that's not magazine?
Tom:
It does, yes.
Dan:
Eh.
Libby:
Trying to remember my GCSEs.
Dan:
Ah, Magasin. Don't—
Libby:
Magasin.
Dan:
Vivian. So Viv— Viv Chick mm—
Libby:
Viv— Vivian Chicken— is it newspaper or...
Dan:
What is— What— Yeah, what is the—
Libby:
Receipt?
Dan:
It— What is the industry in "Industry?" It's financial, isn't it? If I remember rightly, it's financial. So it's gonna be... Surely related to the financial world.
Libby:
Stock. Vivian Chicken Stock.
Dan:
Stock. Stock markets!
Libby:
Yes.
Charlotte:
Mm. There we go.
Tom:
I do know someone who was gonna start a stock photography site and it was just exactly that joke.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Libby:
That's a pretty good one.
Dan:
Chicken. Ah, what is a magasin? Is it a shop?
Tom:
Yes.
Charlotte:
Ooh.
Tom:
Yes, it is. Magasin is shop.
Libby:
Oh, chicken— chicken shop. What's her name? She does the interviews outside the chicken shops. Amelia something. Amelia!
Tom:
Yes.
Charlotte:
Yes?
Tom:
And if you can't remember the last name I won't force it out of you. It is Amelia Dimoldenberg who does the "Chicken Shop Date" series on YouTube.
Libby:
That's right.
Tom:
She got a cameo as a journalist in "Industry" as Vivian Poulet-Magasin.
Libby:
That's fun.
Charlotte:
That's nice. That's so good.
Dan:
Of course.
Tom:
Which means we just have the question from the start of the show. Thank you to James Dominguez for sending this in. In Turkish, it's French. In English, it's Greek. And in German, it's a railway station announcement. What is it? Does anyone wanna take a quick pot shot at that?
Libby:
In English, it's Greek.
Tom:
Mhm.
Libby:
What's Greek to us?
Charlotte:
Everything's Greek to me. I only speak English.
Libby:
(guffaws softly)
Dan:
I think that's right, Charlotte.
Libby:
(gasps)
Tom:
(laughs)
Charlotte:
Yeah?
Libby:
Oh. Oh, an incomprehensible thing!
Tom:
Yes!
Dan:
I don't know the German one but I think it must be this is what they say to say this is gibberish.
Tom:
Yes.
Libby:
Oh, I love that. That's so cute.
Tom:
Yes, Turkish-speakers would say that something nonsense sounds like French. English-speakers would say that it's all Greek to me, and Germans would liken it to a railway station public announcement system. You are spot on.
Charlotte:
That's really good.
Tom:
Lovely group solve there. Well done. Congratulations to all of our players for running the gauntlet. What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you? We will start with Dan.
Dan:
You can find me on Twitch a couple of evenings a week. I am QuizzyDan and I'm on YouTube there. You can find me playing games and solving crosswords with a lot of help from the chat.
Tom:
Libby!
Libby:
Yeah. My podcast that I host with Charlotte is called "What's All This Then." It's about Britain and it's a very fun time. And then also on Twitch, twitch.tv/libtron. I'm playing some games, doing a little bit of cooking and baking sometimes if that's your sort of thing.
Tom:
And Charlotte.
Charlotte:
Well, it's "What's All This Then" right now, as Libby mentioned. I'm gonna say also keep an eye on YouTube.com/ charlotteissocoollike as it is now. Just in case. I mean, you know, it's just something else to plug, isn't it? Maybe I'll get back to YouTube at one point. We'll see.
Tom:
Yeah, I'm not sure I'd recommend it. If you—
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
If you'd like to know more about this show you can do that at lateralcast.com where you can also send in your own ideas for questions and join the Lateral producer's club. We are @lateralcast basically everywhere and there are full video episodes every week on Spotify. Thank you very much to Charlotte McDonnell.
Charlotte:
That's me!
Tom:
Libby Watson.
Libby:
Ah-hah, it's me.
Tom:
And Dan Peake.
Dan:
I've had fun.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | James Dominguez, Elena, Ian Morrison, Joseph Robidoux, Adam Jeff, Ethan Levin, Sky, Melvin |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |