Lateral with Tom Scott

Comedy panel game podcast about weird questions with wonderful answers, hosted by Tom Scott.

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Episode 69: A very speedy spider

Published 2nd February, 2024

Evan & Katelyn Heling and Emily Calandrelli face questions about satellite sizes, shirt selections and salt sales.

HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Alec Gray, Jacob, Noah Gillman, Ben Hobson, Eltjo van der Lelie. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.


Transcription by Caption+

Tom:Of the 7,000 satellites that orbit the Earth, which one is the largest?

The answer to that at the end of the show.

My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.

(radio filter) Welcome aboard, passengers of flight LA063. Our flight time today is going to be about 40 minutes. We're just about to taxi onto the runway of lateral thinking, so please make sure your seatbelts are fastened and your logic is safely stowed.

(filter off) Here for the free juice and bag of nuts, we have Evan and Katelyn, from your own YouTube channel, from making all sorts of ridiculous things. Welcome back to the show. How are you doing?
Katelyn:Good. I'm excited about my juice and my free nuts.
SFX:(group laughing)
Tom:They may have got slightly held up in transit. In about five weeks, just a small Amazon package is going to arrive just disappointingly late.
Tom:This is your second time on. How was the first show for you?
Evan:I loved it. I mean honestly, I was a little scared at the beginning. I felt like I was in school, but I'm like, I love puzzles. I love thinking outside of the box. So I am excited and ready to do it again.
Katelyn:Heck yes.
Tom:Well, thank you very much for coming back.

I'm going to ask what I always ask returning players, 'cause this is going to appear a few weeks down the line, maybe a few months down the line from when we record. So, what can people see on your channel as they listen to this that hasn't gone out yet as we record? What are you working on?
Katelyn:Ooh. Well, they can watch our attempt to preserve a fully-carved pumpkin in a giant cube of resin.
Katelyn:As I speak, we have not succeeded on our final attempt yet. So I'm being very hopeful in what they're going to see.
Evan:Yeah we are doing scientific experiments, pushing the limits of resin technology.
SFX:(both snickering)
Katelyn:Yeah, you can put it that way. It's a series we do every year, and we're in the middle of our biggest challenge yet in that series, so...
Tom:Have you ever had one where it just hasn't worked?
Katelyn:Oh, yes.
Evan:Oh, yeah.
Evan:Oh, yeah.
Evan:That was year one. This is year four. We're making progress.
Tom:Also joining us on today's show:

known as The Space Gal, known as the host of Emily's Wonder Lab, and also author of the Ada Lace series, Emily Calandrelli, thank you for joining us again.
Emily:Thank you for having me back again.
Tom:How did you feel about your first show a while back?
Emily:Very fun. Super fun. I have... I get a lot of test anxiety. And so I was nervous in the beginning, but the fact that it's not a competition makes this much more fun. I like that we play off each other.
Tom:Despite what some players ...consistently think it is!
Emily:Yes, no, no, teamwork. It's teamwork. Please god. Let it be teamwork.
SFX:(group laughing)
Tom:I'm going to ask the same question. What are you working on right now? What is going to be out in the world by the time that this episode goes out?
Emily:Yeah, well... for my YouTube channel, I'm... I flew in an F-18 with the Blue Angels. And so I have a video that will cover that flight, coming out soon.
Tom:How were the G-forces? 'Cause I've passed out at 3.6 before, and I feel like they pushed you harder than that.
Emily:I did also pass out, so you are in good company. I passed— We went up to 7.5 gs.
Tom:Oh, wow.
Emily:And it was very intense and uncomfortable. But I flew with the Thunderbirds couple of years ago, and we made it to 9 g. And I didn't pass out then. So, my body has withered away.
Tom:Wait, you've flown with both the Thunderbirds and the Blue Angels?
Emily:I have, yeah. And I threw up on both, and my body is not meant for it. I don't know why they keep inviting me on these planes.
SFX:(group laughing)
Tom:Well, speaking of intense and uncomfortable, let's get on with the show.
SFX:(guests laughing)
Tom:My job on this show is to be a magician, conjuring up strange situations out of thin air. It's all done with mirrors, which probably explains why my script is back to front. And we start with this:

Question one, sent in by Noah Gillman.

Ben and Jen are playing the same trumpet part in a big band. Ben is following the bandleader's signals accurately. However, Jen ignores the signals and does her own thing. Why is everyone fine with this?

Ben and Jen are playing the same trumpet part in a big band. Ben is following the bandleader's signals accurately. However, Jen ignores the signals and does her own thing. Why is everyone fine with this?
Evan:Now I know in bands... there's different tiers that you can be at per section. So there's the...
Katelyn:The seat one, the seat two.
Evan:Yeah, and sometimes—
Emily:First chair, second chair.
Katelyn:Oh, that's it.
Evan:Yeah, yeah. One of those.
SFX:(both laughing)
Evan:And I think that sometimes do people get solos?
Emily:They can have solos in band.
Evan:And could they just be doing a little solo part?
Katelyn:But then would they be playing the 'same part'? 'Cause it said they're playing the same part.
Tom:They are playing the same part.
Evan:Oh, so they would be technically supposed to be doing the same thing.
Katelyn:So I wonder... So, it says Jen is doing her own thing. But I wonder if that means she's going completely freeform or is she just not following the instruction of the band leader? But she could be doing something correctly. She's just not following the instruction.

Is she playing a little higher? A little lower?
Evan:Is she blind?
Katelyn:Oh, is she blind?
Evan:Is she blind... and she is just playing by feel? She's not technically following the direction, but she's still doing it correctly.
Tom:I love that answer. And were this a world where I could rule in technically valid alternate answers, that would be a technically valid alternate answer.

But in this case, Ben and Jen are sighted. There is nothing notable about them themselves other than they're playing in this band.
Emily:Is it jazz? Where you don't have to be perfect and it has to— doesn't have to follow exactly what the conductor is doing?
Tom:Not for this. It is a big band.
Katelyn:Is it, I kind of started to say this earlier, but then you jumped on the blind thing, and I liked that better, but... I'm not going to use the right terms here, but is it that Jen is playing her trumpet... an octave above or below, higher notes or lower notes, but the same part still, to harmonize?
Tom:Oh, that's not something the band leader would signal. And they are, again, playing the same part.
Evan:The same part.
Emily:Is the second person just... Are they supposed to follow the lead of the person playing in some way? Watching their fingers, and... They're not following the conductor, but they're following that person for some reason?
Tom:...Yes. But I'll need to know the reason for that to wrap that question up. So, yeah, she's not—
Emily:Are they— Is it due to their heights?
Tom:Oh, I love that. But, but no.
Evan:(laughs uproariously)
Tom:You're right that Jen is following the folks around her.
Katelyn:But is it because she can't see the band leader?
Evan:No, we already went down that way.
Katelyn:No, there could be other non-height reasons.
Evan:There could be other reasons, yeah.
Katelyn:They put her off stage. (laughs) She's in the back.
Tom:I might have slightly misled you.

It's not that they're playing in a big band.

It's that they're playing in a big band.
Evan:In a big band! Wait, there's a second conductor.
Evan:It's so big... you need two conductors.
SFX:(group laughing)
Katelyn:I love your confidence.
Emily:It's not a big band, it's a big band?
Emily:I don't get that. It's not a big band, it's a big band.
Evan:It's like, because I think... Is big band a genre?
Tom:Right, yeah.
Evan:In some ways? But big band also means a large band
Katelyn:A large band.
Evan:...with a large number of people.
Tom:Yup. Big band is a genre. I think we're talking like Glenn Miller, that sort of thing, where there's just a lot of people on stage. This is a big band.
Evan:So, I think we're on the generally right track. Can... Can the person who's not following the main conductor see the conductor?
Katelyn:Okay. And they're playing the same part.
Emily:Does it have to do with... they're complementing the audio in some way? So they sort of need to listen and watch the person, and what they're doing to adjust themselves?
Tom:Oh, do you want to rephrase that slightly?
Emily:(snickers) Do they need to adjust their volume? ...and/or pitch? ...and/or... notes?
SFX:(scattered snickering)
Emily:Based on the person playing in front of them or beside them?
Tom:Again, it's not volume, it's not notes. That's not what the band leader is signaling.
Katelyn:Are they playing on a slight delay from the other band member?
Tom:Yes. Why?
Evan:'Cause it sounds cool?
SFX:(group laughing)
Evan:A slight delay.
Katelyn:I mean, well, I know there are some songs. I can't think of any words, like one person starts singing. Usually I think of it with voices, and then another person—
Emily:Is it like "Row, Row, Row Your Boat"?
Katelyn:Yeah, the ♪ Row, row, row your boat ♪
Evan:♪ Row, row, row... ♪
Tom:Oh, I'm sorry, for a minute I thought we were gonna try and do that over a call across continents. And I just panicked at the lag that would get involved there!
SFX:(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Evan:Oh wait, does it have to do with the space that they're playing in?
Tom:When I say big band, I mean... marching band on a sports field, that kind of size.
Katelyn:So it has to do with the sound delay reaching point A to point B because the band is so big.
Tom:Yes. This is a well rehearsed technique. So why is only one of them following the bandleader?
Evan:Because that one is closer to the bandleader, and the other one is so far away that the speed of sound, they need to account for it.
Emily:The one that's farther away is following the band leader.
Tom:Players at the back look at the signals. Players at the front follow the beat.

Because it takes almost an entire beat— If you're playing a fast song, and you're in a sports field, it might take half a beat for the sound to travel through. So to make it work for the audience...

Ben and Jen are in different parts of this giant marching band. The one that's far away looks for the signals. The one that's close feels the beat.
Katelyn:That's so interesting. That seems so difficult.
Emily:That's really cool. I'm embarrassed that that took us that long to get there. But now that I hear—
SFX:(others laughing)
Tom:I mean, I did say big band. You know, that's...
Emily:You did.
SFX:(Katelyn and Evan laugh)
Tom:Evan, it's over to you for the first guest question. Whenever you're ready.
Evan:Over the last 20 years, the missing-sector orbweb spider has thrived in the UK, even though its habitat sometimes moves at 34 yards a second. Specifically, where is that?

I'll say the question again.

Over the last 20 years, the missing-sector orbweb spider has thrived in the UK, even though its habitat sometimes moves at 34 yards a second. Specifically, where is that habitat?
Katelyn:So the habitat is on something moving. Is it on a vehicle?
Tom:Who measures speed in yards per second?!
Evan:(cackles) Hey, I'm just reading the question as it was delivered. "Potentially."
Katelyn:Oh yeah, 34 yards per second. I wasn't even thinking about the actual speed. Just that it's moving.
Emily:Yeah. But— And we have— If these are the same— We have orb weavers all around us, in our trees and our bushes. They're so pervasive in the area that we live in. And, I don't know... where else they would be on that would move at that random speed, 34 yards.
Tom:35 yards, right?
Emily:Per second?
Tom:It was 34 or 35.
Evan:It could move faster, but it really shouldn't.
Katelyn:And can you say the speed one more time?
Evan:34 yards per second.
Tom:34, okay. I heard 35. 34 yards per second.
Katelyn:34 yards per second.
Evan:If you want, I could translate it to miles an hour just to, you know, help you.
Tom:No, give us a little while.
Evan:Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'll sit and wait and watch you guys ...squirm. (laughs)
Katelyn:Yeah, part of it is my struggle to figure out how fast 34 yards per second is.
Tom:Has this been deliberately obfuscated by the—
Katelyn:Because that's 100 feet per second.
Tom:Which is a— So it's about... 30 metres per second, because that translates... I don't know what that is in miles per hour, but...

I have a feeling it's something that travels at a very specific speed, and if he gives a speed, we'll get it immediately.
Katelyn:Okay, it seems—
Evan:It is a big hint.
Katelyn:It seems fast. So their habitat is on something moving quickly.
Tom:It's the spider that sits inside your wing mirror as you drive down the motorway, and...
Emily:Oh, yeah, I mean, they literally are everywhere.
Evan:Wait, Tom got it one go.
Evan:That's 100% it.
Evan:The wing mirror cavity on modern cars, they choose it because It helps them trap food. You just randomly threw that out as an example.
Tom:I was just making a cheap joke at the expense of the spiders that always get stuck in wing mirrors.
Katelyn:It was so specific!
Evan:There's a reason, though. That they actually like going there because that really brings a lot of bugs and food to them.
Tom:And let me guess, 34 yards per second is 70 miles per hour, which is a speed limit on British motorways.
Evan:Correct. Yep, 70 miles per hour.
SFX:(both laughing)
Katelyn:Oh my gosh!
Evan:Yeah, and I think specifically... since the mid 2000s, most new cars sold in the UK have wing mirrors that have a rear cavity to them. That reduces the drag noise and arguably is more aesthetic, but it's also a great place for spiders to hide. This spider is one of the few species that have used this dark, safe cavity as a place to lay eggs and hide from predators.
Tom:It's not just random spiders? I genuinely was just going, well, any sort of spider just sets up in there and then gets blown out. They don't get, they just literally set up a habitat in the wing mirror?
Evan:Yeah, and they lay eggs there.
Tom:Oh, thanks for that. That's great to know.
Evan:I'm sure a lot of people are gonna have a new fear unlocked as they adjust their side mirrors. (laughs) I can't believe you threw it out as a joke.
Tom:(stammers, laughs) I... If it wasn't... If I thought it was the answer, I wouldn't have thrown it out that early!
SFX:(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Emily:I know, I was thinking, 34 yards per second. Does it have to do with a football field? Or, what else uses yards?
Tom:Right! That's just the question writer being a jerk!
SFX:(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Tom:Thank you to Ben Hobson for this question.

The logo of Morton Salt, a leading American brand, features a young girl with an umbrella sheltering from the rain. The accompanying motto reads, "When it rains, it pours." Why did the company choose such a dreary image?

I'll say that one more time.

The logo of Morton Salt, a leading American brand, features a young girl with an umbrella sheltering from the rain. The accompanying motto reads, "When it rains, it pours." Why did the company choose such a dreary image?

This is not product placement. Just gonna say, right now...
Evan:Not sponsored.
Tom:I'm open to product placement and sponsored questions. This is not one of them.

Morton Salt, please enjoy the free advertising.
Katelyn:I mean, my first instinct goes to salting roads when it snows. But the imagery is rain, not snow.
Emily:Yeah. Or where do we get salt for general consumption?
Katelyn:In the ocean.
Emily:That's what I'm wondering, if it's something to do with water and evaporating water.
Tom:Not necessarily from the ocean. There are plenty of salt mines in the world.
Katelyn:Oh, salt mines.
Tom:I've been down a couple of them.
Tom:It's, very, very dry, and it tastes of salt in the air. And I know that's an obvious thing to say, but it still surprised me down there. You know, you're down there for an hour, and you lick your lips and go, "Oh, that's salt."
Evan:Mmm, tasty.

Could you have a meal down there, and you wouldn't need any salt? You're just breathing in and ingesting the salt, and everything is perfectly salted?

You should open a restaurant down there.
Katelyn:In a salt mine.
Evan:A restaurant in a salt mine?
Tom:I feel like that exists somewhere, probably in Romania.
SFX:(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Tom:There's a few salt mines in Central and Eastern Europe that are no longer producing salt, that have got theme parks opened in them. Or, not full theme parks, but little attractions and rides and hotels and things like that.
Evan:That's fun.
Tom:Sorry, Tom's salt mine facts there.
SFX:(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Emily:Hmm. I'm wondering if back, way back when, I'm assuming this is a very old brand, did people need salt or get salt on rainy days?

Or something having to do with when you received or purchased salts way back when this brand was first started and that imagery was created.
Evan:I wonder, is the phrase, "When it rains, it pours," is that a red herring or does that have something to do with the imagery and the answer?
Tom:That is very relevant.
Evan:Very relevant, okay. "When it rains, it pours" and the image.
Emily:Because you can say 'pour', like you're— 'Cause those typical salts, the Morton salt, the larger ones, you open them, and you pour out the salt. So maybe just has to do with its wordplay. "When it rains, it pours." This allows you to pour the salt.
Katelyn:Mhm, mhm.
Evan:Oh, were they the first brand to put a pour spout on their salt?
Tom:They weren't, but you're all circling the right answer here.

That little thing you just worked out there, Emily, is the last hint on my list of hints. It's the giveaway one, so yes, it is very much to do with that wordplay.
Katelyn:I mean I can see how they went from:

"Okay, we— You can pour your salt from our container. What's a saying that has to do with pouring? 'When it rains, it pours.' Therefore, we'll put a girl in a raincoat as our logo."

I can kind of work it backwards, but I still don't, I feel like that's not telling the full story that we're looking for.
Tom:Yeah, there's one other thing to work out from that.
Katelyn:I mean, is it pours as opposed to sprinkling, which is what you would typically do with salt? You shake it, and it's a sprinkle?
Tom:I mean, you could do either with this salt. But "when it rains, it sprinkles" is not quite as good a motto.
SFX:(group laughing)
Katelyn:Yeah. Yeah.
Emily:Oh, maybe it's like when it's a rainy day, you cook. And when you cook, you need salt. And so when it's a rainy day, it pours.
Tom:Nope, sorry.
Katelyn:When it rains, all the slugs come out,
Katelyn:and you kill slugs with salt.
Evan:With salt. And so you pour it on them.
Katelyn:You pour it on the slugs!
SFX:(group laughing)
Emily:When it rains, you pour, they die. Morton Salt.
Katelyn:Yeah. New slogan. Okay, that's not it.
Emily:This wasn't the advertising. This wasn't the advertising they were hoping for.
Tom:Evan, you said, "Were they the first brand to..." And, you then went on to, put a spout on there. That bit's not right. The rest of it... They were the first brand to do something.
Evan:Okay, okay.
Emily:They just give you a bunch of salt at once?
Tom:No, the—
Emily:Or table salt.
Tom:Yeah. Table salt. And there's something—
Emily:Pourable salt.
Tom:Yeah, and there's something that used to be a problem with that, that they solved.
Emily:Oh, the moisture. Is it the... It would collect too much moisture and harden?
Tom:Yep. So what did they do that justified that slogan?
Katelyn:I mean, I know at restaurants, you put rice in it to make it not get too moist.
Emily:Yeah, is it an airtight container? Their container is unique in that it doesn't allow moisture?
Tom:I'm gonna give you it.

It's not the container, but it is an anti-caking agent in the salt. It's magnesium carbonate.

They were the first brand to add an anti-caking agent that meant that even if it was humid, even if it was raining outside, you could still pour the salt.
Emily:Even if it's raining outside.
Tom:So yes, it wasn't the container. It was an agent in it. But I'm not going to ask you for chemistry knowledge to know exactly how you would stop salt from caking up in the rain.

So yes, Morton Salt was the first where when it rained, you could still pour it. So when it rains, it pours.
Evan:That's clever, but it's too clever. Clever to the point where no one appreciates it.
Emily:They're assuming too much of their audience.
Katelyn:Yes! (laughs)
Evan:Yes! (laughs)
Tom:Emily, over to you for the next question.
Katelyn:Whenever you're ready.
Emily:This question has been sent in by Alec Gray.

So, Sam Raimi's Evil Dead franchise was turned into a musical in 2003. For a while, the theater's best seats were sold at a discount, but later attracted a premium price. Why were the souvenir T-shirts only produced in one colour?
Tom:Have two of us both got there?

I think we might have to go to the spare question here. Have two of us both got this?
Evan:I think so.
Tom:Both me and Evan lit up here.
SFX:(Evan and Tom laugh)
Tom:Katelyn's just looking a little bit nonplussed.
Katelyn:I was like, I want to hear the question one more time, and you guys already got it.
SFX:(others clamouring)
Tom:Emily, give us that question one more time.
Emily:Sam Raimi's Evil Dead franchise was turned into a musical in 2003. For a while, the theatre's best seats were sold at a discount, but later attracted a premium price. Why were the souvenir T-shirts only produced in one colour?
Katelyn:I think I know as well.
Tom:I think we might all have got this.
Evan:We might all be wrong though.
Tom:What colour do we all think the T-shirts were? 'Cause I'm... red.
Tom:But we all think it's the same reason, right?
Katelyn:Well, we're thinking the same reason. I was thinking red, and Evan says white.
Evan:Well, 'cause I think that— Okay. I think that they're white because there's blood sprayed as part of the production, and you want white to show the evidence of the blood.

You were thinking red to hide the evidence of the blood.
Tom:Yeah, same.
Evan:Wait, Tom, you were thinking red also?
Tom:I was thinking red to hide the blood because presumably the Evil Dead musical has a splash zone.
Katelyn:But I actually think that Evan might be onto something, because the people that want to be in the splash zone want evidence of the splash.

Like, we go to a haunted house every year where you get blood all over you. We always wear white T-shirts.
Tom:Oh my god! Really?
Katelyn:We always wear white T-shirts.
Evan:It's a great haunted house.
Katelyn:Yeah, but you wear white T-shirts because afterwards, you want the photo covered in blood. So I actually think the people that want those seats would want a white shirt. I think you're right.
Tom:I'm sorry, just Emily, I realise that you are itching to tell us yes or no on this.

But I want to drill down more on a haunted house that sprays you with blood?
Katelyn:Oh, yeah, it's like you're in there for an hour and a half. It's like you go through a whole storyline.
Evan:It's a near escape room. You sign up for a time slot. It's you and your team. You solve mysteries. You reach into slimy holes.
Katelyn:You have to crawl through tunnels and stuff.
Evan:They trap you. They move you around in tunnels and everything. It's elaborate.
Emily:Where is this?
Katelyn:It's in Austin.
Evan:In Austin, Texas, yeah.
Tom:Of course it's in Austin, Texas.
SFX:(Tom and Katelyn laugh)
Evan:But all the money raised goes to breast cancer research. So... good cause.
Katelyn:Yeah, it's awesome.
Tom:Okay, so if this is...

And Emily... (chitters) Hold up, we've got a whole theory worked up here. And if it's right or if it's wrong...

But that doesn't explain the ticket pricing. So did they sell the splash zone at a discount because they thought people wouldn't want it?
Katelyn:I think that's what they originally thought, that people wouldn't want to get dirty and blood-covered at the show.

But then they realized that the target audience for an Evil Dead show actually was buying those seats. Not because they were discounted, but because they wanted to be in the splash zone. They wanted to get covered in blood, and they realized that they could actually sell them at a premium for this specific audience.
Evan:And I think the reason why that happened is because of social media. Getting covered in blood and maybe having a fun backdrop creates a great social media moment. And only the people who got splashed get that photo covered in blood at the show, and the social media created this hype and this demand, and that's what allowed them to sell the ticket prices higher.
Emily:Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! You guys explained everything.
SFX:(Katelyn and Evan applaud)
Emily:There was nothing more to add on my end.

Yes, there was a 'splatter zone'. And those were originally discounted because they thought that nobody wanted to get sprayed with blood. And then they found out that, oops, yeah, actually they would prefer to get sprayed with blood.

And so they kept all of the T-shirts white so that you get that social media moment of blood splattered all over you.
Tom:So, there's one loose end here. What colour were the T-shirts?
Emily:White, they were white. So you could have that social media moment of the obvious splattering of the blood on you.
Katelyn:We're too much the target audience for this one.
SFX:(group laughing)
Katelyn:I'm like, I'd go to that.
Emily:I was so confused reading the question that I was like, "Oh man, we're gonna have to work out a lot of things."

And you guys were like, "Oh, I got, I know exactly. I am in the splatter zone. I have the white T-shirt."
Katelyn:We used to— The haunted house we referred to, they used to have two levels. There was the normal level, and then you could sign up to be red level, where you would, it was even more intense. And we would sign up for the red level.

So we literally are the splash zone people in this scenario.
Tom:Good luck, folks. The next question comes from Eltjo van der Lelie.

In September 2021, the maximum speed limit on signs in a small Dutch city was increased by 10%. After a weekend, the signs were changed back. Why?

One more time.

In September 2021, the maximum speed limit on signs in a small Dutch city was increased by 10%. After a weekend, the signs were switched back. Why?
Katelyn:So is there some sort of holiday or event that... would benefit from the speed limit being changed in September of 2021?
Evan:The speed limit was changed for a weekend, basically.
Katelyn:Yeah, so there could be two reasons why it was changed back.
Katelyn:Yeah, one could be there's a specific event. They changed it knowing they would change it back afterwards, or it could be they changed it, and then after a weekend, they were like, "No, this isn't working. We have to change it back." It could be either of those.
Emily:I think that's around the start of Oktoberfest. In case that is relevant.
Tom:That would be Germany, not the Netherlands. Not quite the right country for Oktoberfest.

And on King's Day, they would just paint everything orange instead, so...

That joke specifically decided to land for just the Dutch listeners. Sorry to everyone else.
SFX:(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Katelyn:So would there be something in the Netherlands in September of 2021 that would be some sort of weekend holiday or tourist thing that would cause them to increase the speed limit by 10%?
Evan:I also could take this into a slightly darker place. They increased it, something bad happened, and they're like, "Nope, let's bring it back down."
Tom:This is very much a celebration. And, in the way that the last question was apparently laser-targeted at everyone answering it, I have the sneaking suspicion that this one could not be more of a mistargeted question. So, hinting quite heavily that yes, this was a planned celebration for a specific event.
Evan:Was it... specifically for people going through, perhaps, like, a rally race, or a driving event, or something of that sort?
Tom:Not necessarily for the people in the event, but in celebration of it, yes.
Katelyn:Oh, so people celebrate... by driving?
Emily:Yeah, maybe there's a number that it hits, that the number is relevant. And the 10% is just sort of...
Katelyn:There's a special number associated with this event/celebration. Maybe it's the, you know, 70th anniversary. And so they moved it from, you know,
Evan:Some number to 70.
Katelyn:Math is hard. Some number to 70, 'cause of the 70th anniversary. Does it have to do with an anniversary?
Tom:It's not an anniversary. And it's definitely not 70. We're in a small Dutch city here.
Evan:Yeah. (cackles)
Katelyn:Okay. (chuckles) Ah...
Emily:But it'd be in kilometres.
Katelyn:Oh, yeah. But somehow the number is relevant to the celebration. And it's not an anniversary. Is this changed every year, or was it only September 2021?
Tom:It was only September 2021.
Katelyn:So has it changed to 21 ...kilometres ...per hour?
Tom:That wouldn't be a 10% increase. That'd be 5%. You'd go from 20 to 21.
Emily:Oh, I don't think we knew the original number. Did we know the original number?
Tom:What do you think the speed limit is in a small Dutch city centre?
Emily:20 kilometres?
Tom:Okay, it's guess the speed limit at this point. The speed limit was 30.
Evan:Okay, oh, okay.
Tom:And that clue has just given it away to a certain section of the audience. People who know about this are absolutely screaming it at their speakers right now.
Evan:(hisses softly)
Emily:So it has changed to 33?
Tom:It was changed to 33.
Katelyn:Okay, so why is 33 relevant?
Evan:Why is 33 relevant?
Katelyn:In the Netherlands, there's something happening.
Tom:Bear in mind, you said driving event as well.
Katelyn:Driving event. Is it like a race?
Katelyn:It's a race, okay.
Evan:So there's a well-known event in the Netherlands.
Katelyn:It's a slow race.
Evan:No, no, no. So the race— That isn't happening in the city. The city upped... The increase in speed limit isn't for the people doing the race.
Katelyn:Oh, it's for people who are there in celebration.
Evan:Yeah, so it's a little... A novelty thing.
Katelyn:A little nod.
Emily:Is there a race car that their number is 33?
Tom:Yes, there is.
Emily:Or something?
Tom:Don't know where that came from, Emily, but you're absolutely right.
Emily:I'm gonna be in an F1 in a couple of weeks. So I've got race cars on the mind.
Tom:Well, funny you mentioned that.
Evan:Is there an F1 car with 33 on it, that is driven by someone from the Netherlands?
Tom:Yep, Max Verstappen.

I wasn't expecting anyone to get the name, but you've pieced enough of it together.

His number was 33, he is Dutch, and it was the Dutch Formula One Grand Prix.
Katelyn:I can't believe we got this far as that one, y'all!
Emily:Well done, team!
Tom:So in honour of his home Grand Prix, the town where it was being held changed their speed limit signs to his number 33.
Katelyn:Very cool.
Evan:That's cute, I love that.
Katelyn:That's wholesome. Love it.
Tom:Our last guest question then. It's over to Katelyn.
Katelyn:So this question has been sent in by Jacob.

In the year 897, Pope Stephen VI ordered his predecessor, Pope Formosus, to be put on trial. In a courtroom face-off, with Stephen as judge and prosecutor, Formosus was charged with offences against the Church. Why else was the trial controversial?
Tom:(chuckles) And I will point out that Evan is very deliberately averting his gaze here.
Evan:(laughs heartily)
Katelyn:Thank you.

In the year 897, Pope Stephen VI ordered his predecessor, Pope Formosus, to be put on trial. In a courtroom face-off with Stephen, the Pope, as the judge and prosecutor, Formosus was charged with offenses against the Church. Why else was the trial controversial?
Tom:This is a bit of trivia that I know. So I'm sitting out, and this one is on Evan and Emily.
Katelyn:Oh, boy.
Evan:Oh, wow!
Tom:I did not think obscure Pope trivia would come in here, but apparently it does.
Emily:Was it not father and son?
Katelyn:Not father and son.
Tom:I'm not sure, but I feel like having a son is kinda disqualifying for popes.
Katelyn:Oh yeah, there is that.
SFX:(guests laughing)
Katelyn:You see how—
Emily:Well maybe that was the drama. How much drama would that cause?
Katelyn:There is something controversial. It's not that they're father and son.
Evan:So I'm guessing the main thing we're trying to move past, that's the obvious controversial thing is that the predecessor is being tried by the current...
Katelyn:Yeah, the current pope.
Evan:And the current pope is the arbiter of everything and in control of everything. That seems a little bit fishy, obviously.
Katelyn:It is fishy, but there's another element that makes this controversial.
Evan:Now, is the... new... is the pope?
Evan:Did the new poop—
SFX:(group laughing)
Tom:Well, that's... That's another six years in purgatory, never mind.
Evan:Did the new pope do what the last pope did also? And is he a hypocrite?
Katelyn:(giggles) What do you mean, "do what the last pope did also"? Put his predecessor on trial also?
Evan:So I'm guessing... the old pope did something bad. But, did the new pope do that bad thing also?
Katelyn:It's not really relevant to the matter that's controversial.
Emily:Is the old pope dead? And he's trying him after his death?
Katelyn:The old pope is dead.
Tom:Formosus was the dead pope that was put on trial.
Katelyn:Now, you can dig a little bit further into this. 'Cause it's... It goes further.
Evan:There's more to it?
Emily:He brought the dead body in on...
Katelyn:Keep going!
Emily:I mean...
Katelyn:Keep going!
Emily:Wait, true? Is that right?
Katelyn:Keep going!
Tom:Wait, you said courtroom faceoff, right?
Evan:So the new pope brought the old pope to the courtroom to literally stand trial?
Katelyn:Should I just go ahead and say it? I mean, y'all are...
Tom:I think you have to just go ahead and say it.
Katelyn:Okay. So, the... Yes, the old— The new pope had the old pope dug up. They dressed him in all his ...gear. They put him in a throne, and they had a trial where they would ask him questions.

He didn't answer, of course, 'cause he's dead.
Katelyn:And then, you know, they found him guilty of all these things.

And they cut off three of his fingers, the three fingers he used for blessing people. And then they threw him in a river.
Evan:What? So, a lot of controversy.
Katelyn:Yeah. Yeah, so there's a lot.
Tom:There's some point at which a historical event goes from being a horrible atrocity to a question we can have on a light-hearted panel show. And it feels like we've only just crossed the line on this one!
SFX:(Emily and Evan laugh)
Katelyn:Yes, you know, one thing, you know, I could almost see it being like... when I was reading about this, it almost feels like you could make a dark comedy movie about it, you know? It's been so long.
Tom:It's a Death of Stalin kinda situation there, yeah.
Katelyn:Yeah, yeah. Or it's a little bit like Weekend at Bernie's.
Emily:I would pay to be in the splatter zone.
Tom:Oh my god!
Katelyn:Oh yeah— You don't wanna be in the splatter zone in this one.
Katelyn:No, you don't.
Tom:Oh no.
Katelyn:Yeah. So the reason it was controversial is because Pope Formosus was dead.
Evan:That makes sense.
Tom:One last order of business then. At the start of the show, I asked:

Of over 7,000 satellites that orbit the Earth, which one is the largest?

And as I was prepping to say this, Emily went to get a prop. So, I'm just gonna... hand over to Evan and Katelyn here first, just to see if they can take a shot at this.
Evan:I think this is a trick question. Katelyn, go first. I think I might have the second answer.
Katelyn:I mean, is it the moon?
Tom:Yes, it's the moon.
Katelyn:Okay, okay.
SFX:(Evan and Katelyn clap)
Tom:I'm going to assume... Yes. And Emily holds up a weird floating contact juggling ball of the moon, which is wonderful.

Thank you very much to all our players. Thank you for coming. Congratulations on getting through the show.

We will start today... Emily, where can people find you? What do you do? What are you making?
Emily:Yeah, so people can find me all online at various social media platforms at @TheSpaceGal, and I'm at
Tom:Evan, Katelyn, where can people find you? What are you working on?
Katelyn:You can find us mostly on YouTube. Just search Evan and Katelyn, but we're on all the platforms. And you can find all of our DIY videos or gaming videos and every other random thing we're doing.

Search Evan and Katelyn on YouTube.
Tom:And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at

We are at @lateralcast in the increasingly hostile wasteland of social media, and there are video highlights at several times a week.

With that, thank you very much to Evan and Katelyn.
Evan:Ooh, thanks for having us.
Katelyn:Thank you.
Tom:To Emily Calandrelli.
Emily:Woo-hoo, thanks for having me.
Tom:I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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