Get the RSS feed or search “Lateral” on your podcast app
| Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode |
Episode 88: Rolling a 7
Published 14th June, 2024
Ella Hubber, Caroline Roper and Tom Lum from 'Let's Learn Everything' face questions about devious designs, tantalizing tubes and baffling bans.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Rei, May, Arizona Hays, Peter Scandrett, Gabriel C.. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom Scott:
What did Singapore ban in 1992 when the doors of its mass rapid transit trains kept getting stuck?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Welcome to the podcast that's not afraid to tackle life's great mysteries, like why socks always disappear in the dryer, or why cats are always jerks.
Just don't ask me why printer ink is so expensive. You're on your own there.
SFX:
(guests chuckling)
Tom Scott:
Here to take the world to task, we have the folks from Let's Learn Everything, who have, for this recording, and in a joke that does not really work for an audio podcast, all turned up in identical red T-shirts that match mine.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
I appreciate the effort you went with. You spent money for a joke on a podcast that isn't even yours. Thank you, folks. I'm honoured.
SFX:
(Caroline and Tom Lum laugh)
Ella:
It's so worth it. It's so worth it, Tom.
Tom Lum:
I'm really excited for the clips out of context where we don't explain why we're all wearing red shirts.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
It's gonna seem like I've sent a uniform out to y'all!
SFX:
(laughter intensifies)
Tom Scott:
It's gonna feel like I was responsible for this. And that somehow we now all make the guests look like me.
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Ella:
I'm gonna spread that rumour.
Tom Scott:
Please don't!
Caroline:
Oh yeah.
Tom Scott:
I don't need that rumour in my life!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Lum:
Or maybe we'll just let you edit them in post, to make them all look the same or something.
SFX:
(Caroline and Tom Lum laugh uproariously)
Tom Scott:
What happened was we record these kind of a couple at a time, we block record. That's not a secret.
What happened is they all turned off their webcams in the break between recordings, and then just steadily turned them on and waited for me to notice.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Lum:
It would've been so great if you were just like, "Oh, nice shirts, wow."
Caroline:
Yeah! (laughs)
Tom Lum:
(giggles)
Tom Scott:
Caroline appeared first, and I was like, "Oh, Caroline's changing their top. I wonder what—"
And then... just the penny slowly dropped, and I nearly no-sold it. I nearly pretended not to notice.
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Lum:
(applauds)
Tom Scott:
It was 50-50 whether I was going to no-sell it.
Ella:
Oh, that would've broken my heart.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
If this is your first time listening to Lateral, (laughs) apologies for the inside baseball start. I am going to do the usual introductions. We have the team from Let's Learn Everything. Ella Hubber.
Ella:
Hello.
Tom Scott:
(cracks up) You've got to say something more than that. You've got to. Tell us briefly about the show.
Ella:
Our podcast, we learn everything, including the most important things in the world, like pigeons.
Tom Scott:
Caroline Roper.
Caroline:
Hello! Yes, that's right! We're Let's Learn Everything. Every single episode, we cover a big science topic. We answer a science question, and we cover a miscellaneous topic as well. It's a lot of fun.
Tom Scott:
And Tom Lum.
Tom Lum:
You can tell 'cause I'm the Tom in the red shirt. That's how you know who I am.
Caroline:
(guffaws)
SFX:
(Tom and Ella groan)
Tom Lum:
But i'm also part of Let's Learn Everything.
Tom Scott:
Oh, it's gonna be a rough one, this. Alright, here we go.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Scott:
Question one. You can buy a special helmet that has a clear visor to cover the face. On the front of the visor are attached three narrow tubes full of liquid. What is this helmet for? I'll say that again. You can buy a special helmet that has a clear visor to cover the face. On the front of the visor are attached three narrow tubes full of liquid. What is this helmet for?
Tom Lum:
This was my second great invention to be able to drink all three sodas at the same time safely.
Tom Scott:
(laughs warmly)
Ella:
(chuckles snidely) I saw this TikTok video of this guy who puts a hummingbird feeder in his mouth.
Caroline:
Oh, yeah!
Tom Lum:
(cracks up)
Ella:
And then gets them to land on it. So my immediate thought is there's a special helmet where you have sugar water in tubes, and all the birds come. Wouldn't that be cute?
Tom Lum:
And then you protect your face.
Caroline:
Yeah. You specifically said liquid, not water, which makes me think that it's basically anything other than water could be in those three vials. I think sugar water is a solid shout.
Tom Scott:
And you are entirely correct. I thought Tom had done it immediately with his invention about drinking three sodas at once. But no, he was just doing a bit. Ella, you're right. This is the Hummviewer helmet, which lets people see hummingbirds feeding just inches from their face. There are three little nectar tubes – sugar water tubes – on the front of it.
Ella:
Oh, I would love that.
Tom Scott:
Yet again, the first question on a show of Let's Learn Everything has fallen in about a minute!
Ella:
It's all downhill from here, guys.
Tom Scott:
So, we'll move on. Tom, we'll go to you for your question.
Tom Lum:
Rock and roll.
In 1904, why did the man who would go on to be King George V of the United Kingdom feel compelled to spend £1,500 on a printed portrait of his own grandmother?
I'll read that again.
In 1904, why did the man who would go on to be King George V of the United Kingdom feel compelled to spend £1,500 on a printed portrait of his own grandmother?
Tom Scott:
It was a really bad portrait. It was just insulting.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
And in the same way that in stories of the 1950s and '60s, people would have to buy photographic negatives because it was the only copy. This was the only copy of a really insulting portrait.
And he's just like, he is having to be the highest bidder to make sure no one will ever see his grandmother looking that bad again.
Tom Lum:
Ooh!
Caroline:
(giggles)
Ella:
I love that idea. King George V's grandmother is Victoria...?
Tom Scott:
Probably.
Tom Lum:
Yes, I believe so, yes.
Caroline:
Oh?
Tom Lum:
Also, Tom, I love the idea of... in the same way that someone can take an embarrassing paparazzi photo, someone painted a paparazzi...
Tom Scott:
Yeah, yeah.
Tom Lum:
...portrait from the window and was like, "Ha ha ha!"
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Tom Lum:
And then he had to buy it so no one else could get it.
Tom Scott:
Right, yeah.
Caroline:
Is it the opposite? That he desperately needed a portrait to show in his home, and he just didn't have one, so he was like, "Ah, (bleep) I've got to go find one very quickly" and that was the one he found?
Ella:
I'm trying to think of portraits of— Does it matter that it is of Victoria specifically? I'm trying to think of portraits I've seen of her where she's— it's all in mourning, black mourning clothes, and she looks really dour.
Caroline:
Ah yeah.
Ella:
So maybe she was wearing something colourful and smiling. And he was like, "Need that."
Tom Scott:
We've shown repeatedly on this show that my knowledge of historical dating is pretty bad.
In terms of like, where dates are, not in terms of how people dated in the past.
1904 feels like around when Queen Victoria died. I don't know if she was still alive in 1904 or not. But that is about when—
Tom Lum:
I don't think that's super relevant to this.
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Ella:
Okay. Oh, but about historical dating... Was it that it was an unconventional portrait for the time? So... It was a photograph for— and not a painting. Did you say it was a painting?
Tom Scott:
It did say portrait, and that's a— I feel like that word's doing a lot.
Thank you, producer David, who's just said Queen Victoria died in 1901. So we're three years after that.
Ella:
Ah.
Caroline:
Ah, okay, cool.
Tom Lum:
Oh. Ella, I will say, I can say, "Yes, it was an unconventional portrait," but in a way that when you look back on that later, you'll yell at me for saying that.
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Caroline:
Oh perfect.
Tom Lum:
It's technically true, but it might not be helpful. It may— It might be helpful. It might be helpful.
Ella:
Oh, good. So, okay, not a photograph then.
Because I think, I feel like they would be really expensive.
Caroline:
But also, how much was the— What was the pound amount?
Tom Scott:
£1,500.
Tom Lum:
£1,500.
Tom Scott:
That's a colossal amount for back then.
Was she on the money? Was it a rare £1,500 note or bill or something like that... but, and her face was on it.
Ella:
Oh, yeah.
Tom Scott:
Because the monarch's face is on the money.
Tom Lum:
It wasn't money, no.
Ella:
It was on something unconventional.
Caroline:
But it was something else.
Tom Scott:
And you said compelled to buy, right? He felt compelled to buy it?
Tom Lum:
Yeah, I think that's a little subjective. I would say it's not— There's no urgency to this, necessarily.
I think 'compelled' is an okay word.
Ella:
It was on... It was a wood carving on the front of a ship of Victoria sailing through the ocean.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Caroline:
Could it have been something like a brooch with her face on it?
Tom Lum:
You guys are circling it.
I think if you split the difference somewhere between there. So it's something—
Tom Scott:
Between brooch and figurehead.
Caroline:
(guffaws)
Tom Lum:
No, no. Between brooch and money. Which I know doesn't help that much more.
But it's rare, but it's not one of a kind... is how I would phrase it.
Ella:
Oh.
Tom Lum:
Also how the price is.
Ella:
Where would I put... my face?
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Ella crack up)
Tom Lum:
(blurts laugh)
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
We're just gonna let that one slide by, right. We're not gonna...
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ella:
Yeah, let's not get into that.
Tom Lum:
Emblazon my face everywhere.
Tom Scott:
Maybe this was something that'd been made by a community in tribute to Victoria.
And he felt compelled to reward them for that, like, "Oh, you've spent all this time and effort making a tribute to my dead grandmother. I guess I should buy it off you. And I promise to absolutely put it up in the palace here and not just chuck it under a desk."
Ella:
(snickers)
Tom Lum:
He definitely didn't do anything like hang it in the palace.
What he likely did was put it with some other things. He valued it, but...
Ella:
It was her face burnt onto toast, like Jesus.
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Scott:
On food, on some form of food.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
No?
Tom Lum:
No, no. I think you were the closest with money.
Caroline:
Oh, okay.
Ella:
It's like a collectible.
Tom Lum:
It is.
Caroline:
Ahh!
Ella:
A doll? It was a doll.
Tom Scott:
A coin, a card, a... A baseball card with Queen Victoria showing her 15 career home runs and...
Ella:
Yeah, Top Trumps Queen Victoria.
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh uproariously)
Tom Lum:
I play Queen Victoria in attack mode!
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
This will... This is a classic old-fashioned hobby also, I think.
Ella:
A plate?
Caroline:
Embroidery?
Tom Lum:
Oh, you guys are getting so close. I'm surprised you guys haven't said it. It's a classic collectible.
Ella:
A mug.
Tom Scott:
Coin collecting.
Ella:
I have three mugs of Queen Elizabeth from different eras in her life.
Caroline:
A thimble?
Tom Lum:
We'll get to— I wanna dig into Ella's collection in a second.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
But...
Ella:
A spoon!
Caroline:
(gasps) A spoon?
Tom Lum:
No, no, guys, it's a—
Ella:
I also collect spoons. I just wanna really destroy my reputation.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
You would have a booklet for this. For collecting—
Tom Scott:
Stamps! It was a stamp...
Tom Lum:
Yes.
Tom Scott:
with her face on it because in Britain, the stamps have the monarch's face on, and it must've been some rare stamp.
Tom Lum:
Oh yeah.
Tom Scott:
Agh!
Caroline:
Ooh.
Ella:
I also collect Doctor Who stamps.
Caroline:
Again, not surprised by this.
Tom Lum:
I'm so sorry, Tom. Do you mind if we just take a quick sidebar to this podcast?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
King George V was an avid stamp collector who spent a lot of money acquiring rare stamps.
One of the stamps that he bought was the Mauritius two-pence blue, which bears the head of his grandmother, Queen Victoria. The stamp was issued by Mauritius in 1847, and only a few dozen of them are known to exist today.
And it was originally intended to be used for invitations to a ball, but some of them were mistakenly sold to the public.
Ella:
Oh.
Tom Lum:
King George V bought the Mauritius two-pence blue at an auction in 1904.
He dis— Oh, he did display it in a special frame in his study. I was wrong, Tom, so...
Ella:
Awh.
Caroline:
Oh, there we go.
Tom Scott:
Can you imagine being the person bidding against the King of England?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
For his grandmother's stamp.
Tom Scott:
Right?
Tom Lum:
You're like (hisses) But you're like, "Ooh, but it'd be such a story if I got this."
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
Nowadays, well, maybe they should have. Because nowadays the stamp is worth about $1–2 million in today's money.
Ella:
Oh my god.
Tom Lum:
And he had 328 albums of stamps which became the basis of the Royal Philatelic collection.
Tom Scott:
Thank you to Peter Scandrett for this next question.
"Hi Josh, have you seen Giovanni anywhere?" asks Petra.
"No," replies Josh, "There's no one called that here."
Petra says, "Oh, someone told me 'Gio to the changing room please.'"
Where had Petra recently started working, and why the confusion?
Now I will give you that one more time.
"Hi Josh, have you seen Giovanni anywhere?" asks Petra.
"No," replies Josh, "There's no one called that here."
Petra says, "Oh, someone told me 'Gio to the changing room, please.'"
Where had Petra recently started working, and why the confusion?
Tom Lum:
I'm sorry, I gotta say, first of all, I didn't know we were starting these in media res nowadays. We were doing these...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
abstract ways of phrasing these.
Ella:
I'm thinking it's some kind— Changing room doesn't mean what we think it means, for a start. It means doing clothes. It means the room where...
And then Gio is either short for something or it means some kind of rock, and it's some kind of rock to be changed, polished into another kind of rock.
Tom Lum:
At a laboratory. They were changing it into a new element.
Ella:
Not that exactly, but that idea.
Caroline:
Yeah, did they need... oh, like a... They definitely need a geologist to come and move some stones around in the changing room. That's what it is.
Ella:
In the changing room?
Caroline:
Yeah, they change all of the little rocks around, move them around.
Ella:
Is this about money? Is it the room where change is... changed?
Caroline:
(cackles)
Tom Lum:
I really thought this was an accent pun. It sounded like one of those, like in The Simpsons when you call the bar and you give them a fake name that sounds like something.
Ella:
Oh, I see.
Tom Lum:
I really thought it was one of those for a second.
Tom Scott:
I mean, that is the part of this to focus on rather than changing room.
Ella:
Oh, Gio.
Tom Lum:
Is the names?
Tom Scott:
I mean, 'changing room' will give you a clue to the location, absolutely, but there's nothing too fancy about this.
It's not some bizarre rock transmutation room or something like that.
Caroline:
(guffaws)
Ella:
Is it a language thing? So Giovanni was the name...
Tom Scott:
Mhm.
Ella:
of the... Is it like 'Gio to the...' It's like Giovanni in another language?
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
Come on, guys! I'm trying a lot here, and I'm getting nothing back!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
Is it Roman numerals? Were they in space? What was the—
Caroline:
It's an anagram!
Tom Lum:
(laughs) What was the question again at the very end? It was, where did they—
Tom Scott:
Where had she recently started working, and why the confusion?
Ella:
Oh yeah, I completely forgot.
Tom Lum:
Where had she started working? And why—
Caroline:
So if it's— If it's a changing room that means a changing room, then my brain immediately goes to a gym or a swimming pool or something like that.
I guess it could also be anywhere that you have to change into a uniform of some sort?
Tom Lum:
I'm wondering, could it be also if it's an outpatient thing or something where...
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
...they meant someone else that "doesn't work there", but could have been... just there momentarily or something?
Ella:
I'm just thinking 'Gio' is shorthand for something else or G-E-O.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Ohh.
Ella:
Is like...
Tom Lum:
A hospital code or something, right?
Ella:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah.
Ella:
Something... Now, I'm just thinking of all the words that could fit there.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
'Cause I know there... There's all the apocryphal... I don't know how true or not there are, but like at, in hospitals, it's like if you hear a certain song or a phrase, that means there's an emergency of some kind that they don't want to raise panic.
Ella:
Or like Inspector Sands in the Tube for fire.
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Lum:
Oh!
Ella:
Yeah, is it?
Tom Scott:
Yeah, if you ever hear 'Inspector Sands' being called to an office or a location in a Tube station, the fire alarm's going off.
Tom Lum:
Oh, okay. I thought, I was like, "If there's a fire, you should be telling people. You shouldn't be using codewords for that."
Tom Scott:
No, it means the fire alarm has gone off or something has been tripped.
Tom Lum:
Got it.
Tom Scott:
It's not full evacuation. They don't want to panic anyone.
Tom Lum:
"Inspector Sands! Inspector Sands! Quick, quick, quick!"
Tom Scott:
Right, yeah.
Tom Lum:
It's not like that.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom Scott:
But it is a clue to the staff that there is something that needs investigating.
The apocryphal one I heard was that Disney Stores, the retail locations, if you ever hear over the PA that "there is a customer who needs attention" then that's a shoplifter. Because the people who actually go in honestly are guests.
Tom Lum:
Guests. Wow.
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella aww)
Tom Scott:
Is that true? No idea. I got told that by someone once. My sourcing on that is, "Eh, heard it."
Tom Lum:
"Eh" is, "I believe that for Disney. They do silly stuff."
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Gio, Gio to the changing room.
Ella:
Was it G-E-O? Is an acronym.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
That is a really key part of this question, Ella.
Caroline:
Ohh?
Ella:
As in, in the right direction? (wheezes)
SFX:
(Caroline and Tom Lum laugh)
Ella:
That's a key part?
Tom Scott:
What she heard was, "Gio to the changing room."
Ella:
But what was actually said was something else.
Tom Scott:
You've got the right idea, Ella. Not necessarily the right letters.
Tom Lum:
Is it like G-O-two?
Ella:
What sounds like G—
Tom Scott:
What was that, Tom?
Tom Lum:
Two, like the number two or— That was also part— G-O-two is a phrase maybe? G-O-two?
Caroline:
Is O zero?
Tom Lum:
That's not a...
Caroline:
Yeah?
Ella:
Chi. Is it Chi? Instead of G, C-H-I?
Tom Scott:
You're literally just saying it out loud. It's not— it's not— You are way overcomplicating this.
Ella:
(wheezes) ʤiː əʊ tuː
Caroline:
tuː.
Tom Lum:
G-O to the changing room. G.O. General— Is it an operator? G.O.
Ella:
G.O. General...
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
G...
Caroline:
G-O.
Tom Scott:
Which would be the word...
Ella:
Go to the changing room.
Tom Scott:
Yep.
Caroline:
...Oh.
Ella:
(sobs)
Tom Lum:
I'm— I'm—
Caroline:
(shakily) Ohh...?
Tom Lum:
(stammers) I need to go.
Ella:
Oh, Tom.
Tom Lum:
I need to, I can't.
Caroline:
Okay.
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella clamour)
Tom Scott:
No, no, Tom. You need to G-O. That's the...
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
Alright, that was it. So long, everyone.
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Ella:
Stole that joke right out of my mouth, Tom.
Tom Scott:
Yes, this is a place with a changing room where 'go' is habitually spelled out as G-O. So "G-O to the changing room," hence the confusion, so...
Where had she recently started working? Why might somewhere do this?
Ella:
Oh my god, we're not done with the question. (wheezes)
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
I'm just— I can't believe we were just saying it out loud. It really...
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Ella:
(wheezes)
Tom Lum:
G-O to the changing— Oh— Oh! Pets— A pet store! Or a... (stammers) A vet, a vet's office maybe?
Caroline:
Why?
Tom Lum:
When you spell out words so that pets can't hear you, right?
Tom Scott:
Oh, I see why you'd go for that. It's not that. It's to avoid confusion.
Tom Lum:
Okay, okay.
Tom Scott:
Why would you not want to use the word 'go'?
Caroline:
If there's like, if it's a race around or something like that?
Tom Lum:
Oh-oh-oh-oh, is— Yeah, is it something that could launch? Is at NASA or something
Caroline:
(gasps)
Tom Lum:
where you want to say "go for" for something?
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Go for launch?
Tom Scott:
It's a pyrotechnic thing.
Or something similar. It's not NASA, and it's not launching.
So you now have all the pieces.
You have potential pyrotechnic stuff waiting to go off, or other big stuff moving around when someone says "go".
You have a changing room.
Why might it be tradition in this space to use "G-O" instead of "go" unless you are actually telling someone to hit that button and fire the pyro or move the thing?
Tom Lum:
A parade, an event, fireworks.
Caroline:
Or a stage or a concert?
Tom Scott:
Stage. Caroline, you're spot on. This is a theatre tradition.
Caroline:
'Cause theatre traditions are weird sometimes. It was where my head was at.
Tom Scott:
Yeah!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
That's— yeah.
Tom Scott:
Honestly... That was my last clue, was gonna be this is a place with some weird traditions.
Caroline:
Yeah, there we go.
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh)
Tom Scott:
You don't say the name of the Scottish play, you tell people to break a leg...
Tom Lum:
Break a leg.
Tom Scott:
And you say "G-O" just in case some stagehand within earshot is waiting for someone to say "go" in their ear and fire a pyrotechnic.
Ella:
(snickers)
Tom Lum:
Wow, that makes sense. Wow!
Tom Scott:
So going all the way back, a new person like Petra starting at a theatre would hear, "G-O to the changing room" and would be like, "I don't know who Gio is, but I'll go find them."
Tom Lum:
I like to think that the fact that it was worded with characters in a play was a subtle hint at what we should have gotten there.
Tom Scott:
It kinda was! It kinda was.
Tom Lum:
Agh!
Tom Scott:
Caroline, we'll go over to you for the next question.
Caroline:
Perfect.
This question has been sent in by May.
A collector of weird and novelty dice has a six-sided example in their collection where you can roll 0, 1, 2, 4, 5, or 7. Why does this die exist?
I'll say that again.
A collector of weird and novelty dice has a six-sided example in their collection where you can roll 0, 1, 2, 4, 5, or 7. Why does this die exist?
Tom Lum:
Oooh. I feel like we're doing all the nerds classics. We got stamps, we got dice. I'm very excited.
Caroline:
Oh yeah.
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella laugh)
Tom Scott:
And I was immediately like, "Oh, it's gonna be a backgammon doubling die, it's a backg—" It's not a backgammon— It's not. It's just not.
Tom Lum:
I'm very curious to know the answer to this.
Tom Scott:
(snickers) That's good, 'cause that's our job for the next few minutes!
Caroline:
That's what you're here for. (cackles)
Tom Lum:
(belly laughs off-mic)
Ella:
I'm already feeling that I'm going to be very unhelpful during this.
Tom Scott:
Not because you don't know the answer. Just because you feel like being a jerk. That's...
Ella:
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Lum:
I feel like bullying you guys for being nerds.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ella:
Yeah. The numbers three and six are...
Tom Scott:
They're the missing ones.
Tom Lum:
Ooh, ooh, yeah.
Ella:
Unlucky. They're forbidden. They're not used in this game specifically.
Tom Scott:
So, I know some mathematicians who have some merchandise that is weird dice.
And one of them is... a dice game that you can almost always win. It's pairs of dice, and through some magic of mathematics, you roll them one way, and your opponent rolls them some other way. I think you select them from a pair, and you can always win the game. Or almost always win the game. It's your maths scam thing.
But I don't know how you do that with one dice. One die, whichever.
I can't see a way where you can make that... unfair, if it's just one die?
Tom Lum:
You know what? One thought I had was... maybe it has to do with the alignment of the pips or something, or maybe because it's three across and then the hex... the three lines...
Ella:
Ahhn.
Tom Lum:
Two vertical lines for the six. So I'm wondering if that is a meaning they don't want to confuse?
Caroline:
Interesting.
Tom Lum:
I do also love the idea that the answer is just... oh, this was just a dice for a D&D expansion, The Caves of Larknar
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella laugh)
Tom Lum:
and they needed this or something.
Tom Scott:
It was just a mistake. They just put the pips in the wrong place and... Manufacturing error, sorry, you know.
Tom Lum:
Hold on. Hold on. No, no, no. Hold on. Hold on.
Caroline:
Well, it's so...
Tom Lum:
Is this a rare stamp, rare dice situation?
Tom Scott:
Oh, okay.
Caroline:
So funny that you should say that.
Tom Scott:
Wait, this dice does have the right number of pips, doesn't it? In total, it has the right number of pips. There are seven times three... Yeah, there's 21 pips on a dice.
Tom Lum:
Do they print the one on the six side so it looks like a seven?
Tom Scott:
No, it doesn't. I've just done my maths on this, and I'm wrong.
They haven't put the pips in the wrong place, sorry.
Tom Lum:
Oh, right. Because three and yeah.
Caroline:
So, I'll say it again. The numbers that you can roll are 0, 1, 2, 4, 5, or 7.
Tom Lum:
Right, but if you overlay the 3 on the 6, the middle one is the only thing that sticks out, because the rest overlap.
Caroline:
You are absolutely spot on. Well done, Tom, yeah.
Ella:
I don't understand.
Tom Scott:
I have no idea.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
I said misprint, and then I went, "Oh, they've done—" And then my brain completely misfired.
Caroline, you're gonna have to explain this one.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
Yeah, I'm lost.
Caroline:
It is a standard six-sided dice, but there was a misprint in the manufacturing process.
So the three, number three— So it is— It's not a printed version where it's like the number three or two or one. It is those pips, so it's those spots. And the spots for three was drilled onto the same side as the six side. So, and you think about how they're laid out. The six's is three dots... Two rows of three. And the three is a diagonal that goes across.
So the pips were drilled into the same place, leaving that spot in the middle, which came up to seven.
So there was a side with no spots on it and a side with seven spots on it.
Tom Scott:
You said right at the start, the missing numbers are three and six.
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Because the three and the six were printed on the same side of the dice.
Ella:
That's a good one. That was a good question.
Tom Lum:
Good teamwork also.
Caroline:
That's a really lateral question, isn't it? Yeah. (laughs)
Tom Lum:
Yeah. That's a great one.
Tom Scott:
Thank you to Gabriel C. for this next question.
Why was the owner and crew of an oil tanker, the Cherry Valley, awarded $4.1 million for pulling a tugboat to safety off the east coast of Florida in 1994?
One more time.
Why was the owner and crew of an oil tanker, the Cherry Valley, awarded $4.1 million for putting a tugboat to safety off the east coast of Florida in 1994?
Ella:
To safety, meaning... back in to land, or out to sea again, perhaps. Perhaps it's a misdirect. It was full of sea lions.
Caroline:
(wheezes bewilderedly) What? (laughs)
Tom Lum:
(sputters)
Ella:
I don't know why you would get an award for that.
Tom Scott:
I'm not sure where the sea lions came from, or why they have that much money, but... We'll keep going this way.
Tom Lum:
(laughs uproariously) Big sea lion was lobbying.
Tom Scott:
I feel like we're ganging up on Ella this episode, and I would be less guilty about it if I wasn't 70% sure that she's the one that came up with you all wearing red T-shirts.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Lum:
No, that was Tom Lum.
Tom Scott:
Of course it was Tom Lum. In hindsight, of course it was Tom Lum.
Tom Lum:
(laughs uproariously)
Caroline:
The amount of messages that we got in our Discord server about this from Tom Lum was... infuriating.
SFX:
(scattered laughter)
Tom Lum:
Anyway.
Ella:
So please be nice to me, thank you.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
I tried to stop him.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
It was a famous tugboat. It was the little tugboat that could. And that's why. My thought is thinking... oil rig and thinking...
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Did a big oil company pay them a whole bunch of money to be like, "Leave us alone so we can keep drilling" or something like that, you know?
Ella:
It was a single tugboat full of oil.
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline giggle)
Tom Scott:
It's actually not strictly relevant that the hero here was an oil tanker.
Tom Lum:
Okay, okay.
Caroline:
Oh, okay.
Tom Scott:
The owner and crew just got awarded this amount of money for keeping that tugboat safe.
Caroline:
Did it have somebody famous or important on it?
Tom Lum:
Huh.
Ella:
Yeah...? Was Queen Victoria in it?
Tom Scott:
No, they were awarded it.
SFX:
(Caroline and Tom Lum snicker)
Caroline:
Oh?
Ella:
Oh?
Caroline:
That's a missing tugboat, and therefore there was an award for finding it?
Tom Lum:
Ooh.
Ella:
A child had driven the tugboat into the Atlantic.
Tom Lum:
It was the world record for most tugboats saved by an oil company.
SFX:
(both Toms chuckle)
Caroline:
Ah, I like that.
Ella:
(chuckles snidely)
Tom Scott:
There is... a different sense of 'awarded' that you haven't quite got yet.
Tom Lum:
Do they catch a criminal?
Ella:
Pirates.
Caroline:
Pirates!
Tom Lum:
(giggles)
Tom Scott:
You can also get awarded money by a court.
Caroline:
Ooh— Oh, okay.
Tom Lum:
Ooh.
Ella:
They were repo. They were repoing the tugboat from land. From water— (stammers) I don't know. Oh guys, come on.
Caroline:
Did the tugboat damage the oil tanker in some way, or it was in the way, and because it was pulling the tugboat out, it then went off course, it ran out of time, and it tried to claim that back through courts or something?
Tom Lum:
Were they purposely trying to get stuck, and they were like, "No, you weren't supposed to save us" or something, maybe?
Caroline:
Ahh.
Tom Scott:
Ella, you said repo. And there is... a fairly technical term for doing repo out at sea.
Ella:
I don't know the term for— Do you know?
Tom Scott:
I'm gonna give you this bit, because I suspect your knowledge of international maritime salvage law is not great.
Tom Lum:
How dare you?
Caroline:
How did you know? What?
Ella:
Actually, that's very offensive.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Scott:
Salvage is the key word here.
Caroline:
Oh, okay.
Ella:
It was part of— It was a tugboat that was part of the Titanic. You know, it was...
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
An old or famous tugboat, yeah.
Tom Scott:
Tugboat wasn't worth that much.
Caroline:
Was something that the tugboat itself was carrying worth something?
Tom Scott:
Yes. And this is the east coast of Florida, 1994.
Ella:
Oh, we're supposed to— None of us were alive, mate.
Tom Scott:
The tugboat wasn't carrying. It was tugging.
Ella:
Of course, because it's a tugboat. Damn... Idiot.
Caroline:
(blurts laugh)
Tom Lum:
I mean, I don't mean to cast aspersions about Florida during that time. Is it something that would be in a Netflix documentary about... criminals, maybe?
Tom Scott:
(laughs) Up until you got to the word 'criminals'... Yeah, there's gonna be lots of documentaries about this.
East coast of Florida, in the '90s. Yeah, absolutely.
East coast of Florida now, frankly. East coast of Florida since... about 60, 70 years ago.
Ella:
Well all I know is about sargasso, the seaweed that's been around for about that long and getting worse. Is it some kind of— It must be some kind of an animal.
Tom Scott:
It's not an animal.
Tom Lum:
Oh, oh-oh-oh! Oh! Oh! Oh-oh-oh! Cape Canaveral?
Tom Scott:
Keep going.
Tom Lum:
Is it a part of a ship, of a rocket, that they were retrieving or something?
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella gasp)
Tom Scott:
Yes. The tugboat was pulling a barge called the Poseidon to NASA in Cape Canaveral, Florida. And there was a tropical storm. They got into trouble. It was carrying a Space Shuttle fuel tank.
Caroline:
Oh wow.
Ella:
Ohh.
Tom Lum:
I would like to publicly apologize to Florida for thinking it was...
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
I don't know, narcos related. I'm so sorry.
Ella:
I had no idea.
Tom Lum:
It was a space thing. Oh, amazing!
Tom Scott:
Yep.
And maritime law says that if you salvage something, and there were arguments about what counts as salvage and how much that is, but under maritime law, if you put yourself at risk as part of a rescue to salvage something, you get a share of what that is worth.
And the answer to that was 12.5% of $33 million for a fuel tank, for an oil tanker that was in the right place at the right time to save the right tug.
Tom Lum:
That is documentary worthy. That's neat.
Tom Scott:
Right?
Caroline:
Yeah!
Tom Lum:
That's wild!
Tom Scott:
Ella, it's over to you.
Ella:
This question has been sent in by Arizona Hays.
In the middle of a 1975 Australian rules football match, player Norm Dare ran off the field and into the stands. Doing so helped his team win the game. How?
I'll say that once more.
In the middle of a 1975 Australian rules football match, player Norm Dare ran off the field and into the stands. Doing so helped his team win the game. How?
Caroline:
I have a really ridiculous thing. And I'm gonna just say it, and you have to—
Tom Scott:
I have a crap joke. Can I do my crap joke first?
Caroline:
Oh, do the crap joke first. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Scott:
I know this is my standard joke for this episode, but he was just a really bad player. He was just terrible.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Scott:
He just was a... Just didn't help the team at all. He just went– He saw his mum in the crowd, he ran off there, and just decided— and the team was just better off without him.
Ella:
Well, Tom Scott...
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Ella:
No, you're wrong.
Tom Scott:
Yeah, of course I am.
Tom Lum:
Stop, stop.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
Of course I am.
Tom Lum:
Genuinely, Ella, you genuinely got me!
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
I hate you. I can't believe I actually...
Caroline:
Oh my goodness.
Tom Lum:
Don't do that. Oh, you scared me.
Caroline:
Setting the scene:
There's five minutes left of play, and some plonker has kicked the only ball that the team have got off into the crowd somewhere.
But it's Australian rules. Or it's different rules. And that means that they can't stop play at any point.
So this guy has to run into the crowd, go and get the ball back, run back down just in time for them to score the winning goal.
Crowd goes wild, goes wild. It's incredible.
Tom Lum:
(imitates crowd)
Ella:
Okay, that's very elaborate.
Caroline:
Thank you.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Ella crack up)
Tom Scott:
Have you ever read any of Jon Bois's stuff about American football? He's done...
Tom Lum:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Scott:
I don't know how you say it, 2-0-0-to-0 and the Tim Tebow Chronicles and his just bizarre, otherworldly versions of football. And that has that kind of feel to it.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, if you said this with voiceover with this infographic, I totally would've been like, "Oh yeah, yeah, totally."
Tom Scott:
Yeah. Ella, you said this was Aussie rules football, right? So this is... rugby kind of stuff. There's a lot of... catching the ball and throwing the ball and people hurting each other.
Ella:
Yeah, it's American football, right?
Tom Scott:
It's bloody not. It's Aussie rules football. They'll take you to task.
Ella:
Well, Aussie rules.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ella:
Sorry, I don't mean to offend any Australians. I mean, it's that kind of game.
Tom Lum:
I only meant to offend Americans.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Ella:
I mean, that's true.
Tom Lum:
So the answer I've been holding on to is this is a classic speedrunning glitch. And so if you go outside, if you go out of bounds, you'll lag the game.
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
And then you can score a lot faster.
Caroline:
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Lum:
I thought it might be something like Caroline's thing where if you... It runs the clock or something like that.
Caroline:
Mm, mhm.
Ella:
It's nothing to do with time.
Tom Lum:
What was the phrasing at the end about, "it helped them win" or what was it again?
Ella:
He ran off the field and into the stands. Doing so helped his team win the game.
Caroline:
Was he a distraction to the other team?
Tom Lum:
Or was he getting rid of a distraction?
Caroline:
Ohhh!
Ella:
It's nothing to do with the other team. I can tell you that much.
Tom Lum:
I had a thought. Could there have just been a person in the audience with a laser pointer or something, being a nuisance?
Tom Scott:
I was actually thinking sun reflection or something like that. He's blocking a glint.
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Scott:
You can't do that with one body for the whole thing. There's something that's messing his team up.
Caroline:
Maybe their star player ran off earlier, and he was going to go and get him back.
SFX:
(Caroline and Tom Lum crack up)
Ella:
No. Look, there is something that's messing his team up. It's just not quite in the way you're saying.
Caroline:
Okay.
Ella:
Tom, do you— Tom Scott, you seem to know about Australian rules football a little bit. Do you know anything about the rules?
Tom Scott:
I know that there's manoeuvres where they lift each other up to get extra height.
Ella:
Oh, that's cool.
Tom Scott:
It's got some of the DNA from rugby and some from American football and some from its own self.
Ella:
There's something this game is known for that is very distinctive from other types of football.
Tom Lum:
Was it someone on standby that they were able to... or, were there coaches, or...
Ella:
There was no information to the team. He didn't benefit the team in that way. Leaving benefited the team, specifically.
Caroline:
Were there too many players on the pitch? So him leaving balanced them out again?
Ella:
Yes, that was it. (wheezes)
Caroline:
Oh!
Tom Scott:
Wait, did he just realise they had too many players and went, "Oh my god, the referee's gonna notice this, but I've spotted it first," and so suddenly—
Caroline:
"So I'm gonna go and hide!"
Tom Lum:
No!
Ella:
That's it. That's it. So to avoid his team getting a penalty, having too many players on the field, he ran off the pitch. The thing about Australian rules football is that it has massive team sizes, a maximum of 18 people on each side.
Caroline:
Oh wow!
Tom Scott:
Yes it does.
Ella:
So you can't always tell if there's too many people on the pitch.
Tom Scott:
And it's only a penalty if the referee notices and flags it in time, presumably.
Caroline:
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Ella:
Exactly. Yes.
Tom Lum:
That's so clever.
Caroline:
I feel so smart.
Ella:
I will say about this specific event in 1975, Norm Dare apparently ran off and hid under the trenchcoat of someone in the stands.
Caroline:
He actually did go and hide!
Tom Lum:
That's great.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
This is... I... That feels like such a...
That's a theater exercise to have to act in a way where you're pretending to not get caught. Where you're like, "Yeah, good, good, good, good. Yeah, I'm just gonna stand a little bit over here."
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella laugh)
Tom Lum:
And then just be like (mutters)(wheezes) To sneak off. Wow!
Ella:
So if a coach suspects the opposing team has more than the allowed number, they can request a headcount.
Tom Scott:
Ohh.
Caroline:
Ahh. Brilliant.
Tom Lum:
(wheezes)
Ella:
So all players on the field must line up to be counted...
Tom Lum:
No.
Caroline:
(gasps)
Ella:
(giggles) ...mid game. And a penalty is applied if there are too many players.
At the time of this match, the penalty would actually result in the offending team's score being set back to zero.
Tom Scott:
(gasps)
Caroline:
Woah!
Tom Lum:
Oh my god!
Tom Scott:
Wow!
Caroline:
That's brutal.
Ella:
What a game.
Tom Lum:
Of all the rules, of tackling and jumping on people, for this, for the answer to have been the one where it's like, "Jason, Jason, are you here? Everyone line up. Steven?"
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Scott:
That is fully from a Jon Bois story, 100%.
Caroline:
Right?
Tom Lum:
Yeah, that's amazing!
Ella:
That's so chaotic. I love it.
Tom Lum:
(laughs squeakily)
Tom Scott:
Which brings us to the question I asked the audience right at the very start.
Thank you to Ray for sending this one in.
What did Singapore ban in 1992 when the doors of its mass rapid transit trains kept getting stuck?
Any ideas from folks?
Caroline:
Coats.
Tom Lum:
Umbrellas.
Ella:
Hair extensions.
Caroline:
Umbrellas.
Ella:
Oh yeah.
Caroline:
Walking sticks. Suitcases that people can use
Tom Lum:
Trenchcoats.
Caroline:
to jam into the doors to keep them open.
Tom Scott:
That's not getting a door stuck. Those are all things that keep the doors open.
Tom Lum:
Long hair.
Ella:
Change, small change.
Tom Scott:
These are still things that keep the door open, not stuck.
Ella:
Oh, to keep it— Oh, oh, oh.
Tom Lum:
Super glue?
Ella:
Super glue? (wheezes)
Tom Lum:
Duct tape?
Caroline:
Food and drink that could cause it to get sticky.
Tom Lum:
Gum, is it gum?
Tom Scott:
It's gum. Singapore, very famously, bans chewing gum. You cannot sell it.
Caroline:
Wow!
Tom Scott:
I don't know if you're allowed to import it at all, but I certainly made sure I had none on me when I went in.
Singapore famously banned chewing gum.
There were other reasons. They didn't want to have to clean it up off the floors.
But Singapore banned it after two incidents in 1991 when chewing gum stuck between the automatic doors. And in this case, it actually prevented them from closing fully so that the sensors didn't work. But, that was the thing that kept the doors stuck.
And Singapore, to this day, still bans.
Tom Lum:
Wow!
Tom Scott:
That is our show. Thank you to (laughs) my three guests in their red T-shirts.
Tom Lum:
Yay.
Ella:
(giggles)
Tom Lum:
Almost forgot about it. Became very normal.
Tom Scott:
If people want to hear more from you, where do they go? We will start today with Ella.
Ella:
We are Let's Learn Everything, and you can find our podcast and all of our other stuff on letslearneverything.com.
Tom Scott:
Tom, what kind of things?
Tom Lum:
We've covered things like car sensation, can animals make art, Mitochondrial Eve. And if you just want to listen to a little bit of Tom Scott...
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
He's in— He has a brief cameo in our holiday episode if you want to go listen back to that.
Tom Scott:
Caroline, why can't you tell them what's coming up?
Caroline:
We can't tell you what's happening next because we don't know. We all take our own topics to each episode.
Ella:
We don't do any research.
SFX:
(group laughs, clamours)
Tom Lum:
You make it sound like it's improvized. (laughs)
Caroline:
It's all improvised.
Tom Lum:
That's not true. We do so much research, please!
Ella:
We do so much!
Tom Scott:
It's one of the few podcasts out there that is not just some people sat around a table unrehearsed.
SFX:
(Ella and Tom Lum wheeze)
Caroline:
Uh-huh, uh-huh. We all do our own research, and then we bring it to the table during the episode so that each other finds out what we've been researching. It's so much fun. It's a really, really good time.
Tom Scott:
Well, thank you very much to all of you. It has, as ever, been a chaotic joy to have you on the show.
SFX:
(Caroline and Tom Lum laugh)
Tom Scott:
If you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are video highlights regularly at youtube.com/lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Tom Lum.
Tom Lum:
Yay!
Tom Scott:
Caroline Roper.
Caroline:
Yay!
Tom Scott:
Ella Hubber.
Ella:
Yay!
Tom Scott:
My name's Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
I nearly held it together! I nearly held it together!
| Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode |