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Episode 90: Manhole Easter eggs
Published 28th June, 2024
Karen Chu ('Good Job Brain'), Bob Hagh and Lizzy Skrzypiec face questions about rough recreations, reluctant referees and Rubik's records.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Dean, Jim Grandpre, Kunmi, Nick McFetridge, Cassie, Kyle, Devin, David Werner. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Which gentle activity uses the phrase "stab it, strangle it, scoop out its guts, and throw it off a cliff"?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
He script is such the jerk, a producer might put order in that words random.
These are not getting any better!
Joining us today, we have the Trivia Trio back for a second episode.
First up, we have comedy improviser and question producer for various British game shows, Lizzy Skrzypiec, welcome back to the show.
Lizzy:
Hello! I'm less hungover now. That's good.
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Lizzy:
We're getting there!
Tom:
It's not a secret that we block record these. So I'm glad that we are steadily, steadily making you feel better over time and not just adding more things to your brain.
Lizzy:
Thanks.
Tom:
How's the hydration going?
Lizzy:
It's going well. I've got some orange squash which is comforting and hydrating.
Tom:
We didn't talk about Murder, She Didn't Write last time. Tell me about that.
Lizzy:
It is a funny murder mystery, because murders can be funny when they're fictional.
SFX:
(Lizzy and Karen laugh)
Lizzy:
But it, yeah, I often play the... the old detective, Agatha Crusty.
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Lizzy:
Who...
Bob:
I love it.
Lizzy:
(laughs) Each time, each show has— we have a different crime to solve based on audience suggestions. And one member of the audience picks the victim and the murderer and the rest of the audience have to guess.
So it's a little puzzly and... But mainly silly and farcey and funny.
Tom:
Which also sums up, hopefully, (laughs) this episode of the show.
SFX:
(Lizzy and Bob wheeze)
Tom:
Good luck to you.
Next up from trivia podcast Good Job, Brain!: Karen Chu. Welcome back to the show.
Karen:
Heyo! It's me, I'm back. And I'm on my fourth venti coffee.
Tom:
(laughs) I was wondering where that enthusiasm was coming from!
Karen:
(cackles)
Tom:
This is your second episode. You were a new player last time. How did you find it?
Karen:
It gives me a little bit of escape room vibes, where the first thing... when the doors close and the timer starts, you're like, "Okay, okay, what to do, what to do", and I always overthink. I always overthink or overcomplicate a puzzle or think, "Oh, okay, the number of lights on the ceiling is going to indicate a braille."
Tom:
(laughs warmly)
Karen:
Really, and it's like, Oh, there's a big number four on the window, and that's what you had to do." So I had that tendency to do that.
And hopefully now, this is my second show. I can kind of put up some boundaries, some healthy boundaries in my brain.
Tom:
Okay, but also braille overhead lights is a really good idea for an escape room puzzle.
SFX:
(guests giggle)
Tom:
That's really good.
Karen:
Isn't it?
Tom:
I know you've had the Escape This Podcast crew on Good Job, Brain! as well. They're regulars over here.
Karen:
Yes, yes. I love them, I love them. They're so fun. And Dani is just, her brain should be declared as an Australian national treasure for her to create all these puzzles all the time, always. It's amazing.
Tom:
Good luck to you today, Karen.
We go to the last member of what I'm going to call the Trivia Trio now. We have Twitch star and editor-in-chief of BuzzerBlog, Bob Hagh.
Bob:
Hey, I'm glad to be back. I love this show. And if it gives me a reason to take off work to do a fun trivia podcast, I am here. I am here.
Tom:
Thank you very much for taking that sacrifice for us. How was your first episode?
Lizzy:
(cackles)
Bob:
You know? (sighs) I want to echo what Karen said, because sometimes I can get so deep into the inner channels of my brain, but sometimes it's like... the simplest solution is sometimes the best. And that goes back to escape rooms and just trying to dissect the question.
But I love puzzles. We all love puzzles. So it's rewarding when you actually get an answer correct.
So I just loved it so much, I decided to take off more time from work to be right here.
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Tom:
Well, I can promise you that none of the questions in today's show have their words in random order, even though it might seem like that from time to time. I'm going to start you off with question first.
This question has been sent in by Devin. Thank you, Devin.
In the 1840s, why was it common for a group of people to simultaneously say the word "prunes"?
(laughs) I'll say that again.
Karen:
(cackles)
Bob:
(snickers)
Tom:
In the 1840s, why was it common for a group of people to simultaneously say the word "prunes"?
It's just really pleasing to say.
Lizzy:
Ooh! Oh no, that's silly.
Tom:
(laughs)
Lizzy:
But a good— ♪ ahnn! ♪
Karen:
Share it! Share it!
Bob:
Say it! Say it! Say it!
Lizzy:
Okay, well you know when you say 'cheese' for a photograph? Did you say 'prunes' for a drawing?
Karen:
For a portrait?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Karen:
For a five-hour portrait?
Lizzy:
Pru-u-u-u-u- u-u-u-une.
Bob:
Oooo-oo-oo-oo. (laughs)
Tom:
You did in fact used to say 'prunes' for a photograph.
And I'll just read the first note I've got here on my page which is:
If they guess this is to do with posing for a photograph early, get them to drill down on the exact reason.
Bob:
Ohh. Pru...
Lizzy:
Pru... u-u-u...
Tom:
(laughs)
Bob:
See, I'm making an oo sound. Like, a "ooh!"
Karen:
Kissing face. Like a kissy...
Lizzy:
Yeah.
Karen:
Lovey face or duck face.
Bob:
Wedding photos, like marriage photos. Ooh.
Karen:
Ooh.
Lizzy:
Pru-u-une.
Bob:
Ohhh.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Karen:
Nobody's taking a screenshot of this.
Tom:
(laughs)
Lizzy:
Prunes. Prunes. (laughs) It's lost all meaning, Tom. I'm really struggling.
Tom:
It's the 1840s.
What might have been different that means people said 'prunes' rather than 'cheese'?
Lizzy:
Teeth.
Karen:
Well, cheese wasn't invented yet. Ohh!
Lizzy:
What? People had teeth, but maybe not good ones. You know, so maybe it hid your teeth, did it? When you were like, "Pru... prunes."
Tom:
It did, yes.
I still need you to drill a bit further in there.
You're right, dental hygiene was not great. There were diseases like syphilis or anything like that. People's teeth were not something they wanted to show off. That is one of the reasons.
There is another reason in the 1840s why you might not want to be smiling in a photo and showing off your teeth.
Lizzy:
Oh, was they considered common to smile? Was it classy to be miserable?
Karen:
(laughs)
Lizzy:
Oh, so classy in the 1840s. Haven't smiled in 60 years.
Tom:
Lizzy, you're three for three.
Karen:
Wow!
Lizzy:
Wha—!
Tom:
You identified the photographs, you identified the teeth, and you identified the stiff upper lip that was fashionable back then.
You did not smile in photographs. It was undignified. It was flirty. So instead...
Lizzy:
(gasps)
Karen:
Mmmm.
Bob:
Ohhh.
Tom:
You've basically got everything there.
Congratulations, we will roll straight on to the next question.
Lizzy, we will go over to you. You're scoring high on the non-existent scoreboard here this episode. Let's give the others a chance to catch up. We'll take your question.
Lizzy:
Okay.
This question has been sent in by both Cassie and Kyle.
On the 21st of November 2015, Keaton Ellis set a new World Record for solving a 3x3 Rubik's Cube in the fastest time at an official competition. Keaton's 5.09 seconds easily beat the previous record, yet his time was never officially recognised. Why?
On the 21st of November 2015, Keaton Ellis set a new World Record for solving a 3x3 Rubik's Cube in the fastest time at an official competition. Keaton's 5.09 seconds easily beat the previous record, yet his time was never officially recognised. Why?
Bob:
Ooh.
I know with Rubik's Cube competitions, you always start blindfolded, and you have your hands on some type of mat to start the timer.
Karen:
Timer mat.
Bob:
And then you take— And then they reveal the cube, you take your hands off, you do the cube, and then you have to slam the mat again to stop your time.
And I'm trying to think if there was some malfunction where maybe he didn't— He forgot to do it, he slammed it, but the clock kept running. That's what I'm kinda leaning toward, a technical difficulty, possibly.
Tom:
Yeah, those timer mats work by putting both hands on them, which preps it, and then it times from the moment you take your hands off to the moment you put them down. So it means you don't have a human on a stopwatch trying to do start-stop.
It's including the time to grab the cube and throw your hands down afterwards.
Bob:
Unless there was a human who had to be there to verify the time, and he actually did do it, but no one was there to verify.
Tom:
Ohh!
Bob:
He's just looking around, going, "I did the thing, but nobody's here to record it!" I would feel bad. I would feel bad.
Lizzy:
Well, is that like, if a tree falls in a wood and no one's around. If a man solves a Rubik's cube and no one's around to see it, does it happen?
Karen:
There's a story about... people trying to break the world record of making the world's biggest sandwich. And they made it, the sandwich was there. And—
But people ate it before the official could come and verify it.
So they spent all this time making the world's longest— It was the longest sandwich.
And it's like, "Oh, the official's here." And people are with full mouths, being like, "What? Whoops!"
Lizzy:
(wheezes)
Tom:
All those food records have to be eaten as well.
The official Guinness rules – and heaven knows why Guinness are the arbiters of it – but the official rules, they say to avoid food wastage, if you want to officially get their record, one of the rules is...
Karen:
That's good.
Tom:
It has to be eaten and not wasted afterwards.
Karen:
So like the biggest pancake or all of that stuff, they have to be eaten.
Tom:
You better have enough people there. I mean, we're on Rubik's Cubes for this, but...
Bob:
Yeah.
Karen:
Okay, okay.
Lizzy:
I can confirm Rubik's cubes were not eaten during this competition.
Tom:
You did say "fastest person" there, and I'm just wondering if this is actually a person. Did Keaton Ellis invent a Rubik's Cube solving machine or something like that, that meant it didn't count?
Karen:
I was thinking Air Bud, and it's a dog, but...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Karen:
Mm, I like machine.
Tom:
With no opposable thumbs as well. It's amazing, just snout and paw.
Lizzy:
That would be really cool, but it was all humans.
Tom:
Huh, okay.
Lizzy:
In this story.
Bob:
I thought Tom got it on that one because of machine, yeah.
So... I don't know if you can answer this, Lizzy, but was this like technical difficulties, or was it maybe just... I don't know if you can answer that question.
Lizzy:
There were no rules broken or technical difficulties, no.
Bob:
Okay, so maybe an honest mistake that something didn't get recorded possibly.
Lizzy:
Something unexpected did happen.
Tom:
Was Keaton actually trying to break the record for a Rubik's cube?
Someone just handed some stranger a Rubik's Cube, and they went, "Oh, this is easy, turns out." Turns out they do that automatically. No, because you said there were no technical problems. They were still doing the timing.
Lizzy:
And it was at an official competition, so unless it was a passerby that was like, "What's that?"
Tom:
(chuckles)
Bob:
Because the time was recorded as five with— 5.09 seconds. Was it just a rehearsal solve? It didn't really count? (laughs) Was he just doing it for for shiggles? It was like, "Oh, let me just do this and see what happens."
Tom:
So is it something like, it only took five seconds, but the thinking time counted then under the rules or something like that?
Lizzy:
No, and the event was all legit, but something really unusual happened.
Tom:
That's not when the clocks go back, and that's a stupid idea, but like, he happened to beat the record at the exact moment that an hour changed in the clock.
Lizzy:
That is just not how time works.
Tom:
No, it's not.
Lizzy:
(laughs)
Tom:
You're supposed to yes-and me, here! You're an improviser.
Lizzy:
Oh, sorry. Yeaaah, and that's not right, Tom.
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh uproariously)
Lizzy:
So something unusual happened that day that meant that this wasn't officially... recorded as the quickest time.
Bob:
Did someone forget to sign a piece of paper or something?
Karen:
(wheezes)
Bob:
It's like, you have to have a signature? Just as silly as that sounds, I feel it's some part of just some... process that you needed to do to officially verify this time as the fastest, but someone's signature [was] forgotten on a piece of paper or something?
Lizzy:
It was all legit. He did it in 5.09 seconds, but something unexpected happened, and... that was not an officially recognised quickest time.
Karen:
Did someone get in quicker? And it wasn't before?
Bob:
(gasps)
Tom:
Oh!
Lizzy:
Follow that, Karen, yes.
Tom:
This is a competition.
Did someone else just get the record first, or fast enough that it never got to Guinness or whatever?
Lizzy:
Exactly that, a thousand points to you.
Tom:
(laughs)
Karen:
A thousand?
Lizzy:
A thousand, why not?
Tom:
This isn't Whose Line is it Anyway!
Karen:
Whose— Yeah! (laughs)
Tom:
Points aren't made up. They're just non-existent.
Bob:
(laughs)
Lizzy:
(wheezes)
Karen:
Yeah.
Lizzy:
So yes, just to round it off: Literally later on that day, the same day, someone... Lucas Etter set a time for 4.90 seconds and became the fastest.
Tom:
Good luck with this next one, folks.
The manhole covers in the centre of Oklahoma City have an ornate design with a white dot on them. What does that indicate?
I'll say that again.
The manhole covers in the centre of Oklahoma City have an ornate design with a white dot on them. What does that indicate?
Bob:
Well, when I think Oklahoma... I think tornadoes.
So I wonder if something has to do with... were these manhole covers picked up during a tornado, and they can easily identify them as... I don't— flying debris, the cause of human nature, and "Sorry you got decapitated. I apologize."
SFX:
(Tom and Lizzy wheeze)
Bob:
I don't know.
Tom:
We escalated that quickly from "Oh, there's bad weather over there, there's tornadoes," to "Decapitated by manhole cover!"
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Bob:
There has to be some type of identification, I feel like. We think of symbols and a white dot. You know, why does some...
And it's some, right, Tom? Some of them have the white... dot on it?
Tom:
All of them in the centre of Oklahoma City.
Presumably there are occasional exclusions if they need to bring in a replacement manhole cover or something like that, but the ones in the centre have an ornate design with a white dot on each.
Karen:
Utility cover, it's... I believe that's the people trying to adopt the utility—
Tom:
Ah, rather than manhole.
Karen:
Manhole cover is more fun to say because...
Tom:
It includes the words 'man' and 'hole'.
Karen:
Yeah!
SFX:
(scattered giggling)
Lizzy:
Yeah!
Karen:
You got it! (giggles) Okay. This white dot. Ornate design. White dot, ornate design. Is it a map?
Lizzy:
Ooh!
Karen:
Are there— I've seen manhole covers with maps or the city maps or, you know, kind of like... like the cityscape.
And if it's a top-down map, what if the white dot signifies where this actual hole is, where you are? And it's like a "you are here" thing, like at a, you know, what you see at the mall?
Tom:
Karen, you've nailed it. Absolutely spot on.
SFX:
(guests cheering)
Tom:
The ornate design is a raised map of the city centre. And the white dot added with paint to each manhole is the "you are here".
Karen:
What a great design solution.
Lizzy:
Mm.
Karen:
Wow!
Bob:
That's clever— I like that.
Karen:
That's really clever.
Bob:
Better than decapitation.
SFX:
(Tom and Lizzy laugh)
Karen:
Yes.
Tom:
Bob, over to you for the next question.
Bob:
This question has been sent in from Nick McFetridge.
The 1967 NFL Championship game between the Dallas Cowboys and the Green Bay Packers started like any other, with the head referee blowing his whistle to signal the start of play. However, the referees refused to use their whistles for the rest of the game. Why?
I'll say that one more time.
The 1967 NFL Championship between the Dallas Cowboys and the Green Bay Packers started like any other, with the head referee blowing his whistle to signal the start of play. However, the referees refused to use their whistles for the rest of the game. Why?
Karen:
Refused. Refuse is such a strong word.
Lizzy:
Mmm.
Karen:
Not like, "I'm not gonna." It's like, "No!"
Bob:
It's a very strong word, yes.
Lizzy:
It's a weird thing, 'cause it's not a noise thing. Because surely there's noise at the game, or battle.
God, I know nothing about sport.
Tom:
Well, there's a sleeping baby somewhere in the crowd, and the entire...
SFX:
(Lizzy and Bob wheeze)
Tom:
The entire auditorium...
Karen:
"Shhh!"
Tom:
The stadium, the word stadium. We established that before, the entire stadium.
And the referee's there, and he's just, "Oh, okay, we'll let the child sleep. We'll play this game in silence."
Bob:
Ooh.
Karen:
Wow.
Bob:
That's a good challenge. The Vegas bets did not have that on the books, I don't think.
SFX:
(Tom and Bob laugh)
Tom:
Were the crowd just bringing their own whistles to confuse— The home team just had a load of people whistling in the crowd just to annoy the referees and throw them off and give one team an advantage?
Bob:
You know, funny you say that, Tom, because I know, especially here in American sports, I don't know if it happens elsewhere, but there are moments sometimes where referees have to tell stadiums and crowds to actually reduce the amount of noise during some plays.
Because if you're in a home stadium, it can get so loud, whether that— And mostly footb— NFL games. To bring the noise level down. College football, bring the noise level down.
Tom:
Yeah.
Oh, I know there's at least one stadium where I think you get hearing damage on the pitch if you don't have earplugs in or something because the whole stadium is just a bowl that focuses the crowd noise.
And it is deafening.
Karen:
Oh my gosh.
Bob:
Ugh. I don't want that.
Tom:
Yeah.
Karen:
It's a magnifying glass for sound, wow!
Lizzy:
I got an idea. I got an idea. Were there lots of dogs in the local area?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Lizzy:
You can see where I'm going.
Karen:
Was it Air Bud?
Lizzy:
Yeah, what— That whistle is gonna send them crazy! So you don't use it because you don't want to upset the local dogs.
Bob:
I will say these are just normal whistles. Nothing was wrong with them. Just... normal whistles.
Karen:
Or like a Pied Piper rats situation where the whistle noise is going to awaken the rats in— at the stadium.
Oh, I wonder what if the stadium comes into play, like the location of the stadium or where they are.
Cowboys is... Texas. Packers is Green Bay.
Tom:
Wisconsin, up north.
Karen:
Wisconsin.
Tom:
So that's about as far south and as far north as you can get in the US.
Karen:
The Frozen Tundra, that's the nickname.
Tom:
But also...
Karen:
Lambeau Field.
Tom:
Was this just a game or was this a bowl game or a Super Bowl or something like that?
Bob:
This was the NFL Championship game.
Karen:
So, Green Bay Packers. Nickname is Frozen Tundra, so... (sighs sharply)
Was it super cold or something and they didn't want their lips out? And they were—
Lizzy:
Cold whistle.
If the whistle is cold, and then you put it to your mouth, you'll get whistle stuck in your mouth. That's how science works, right?
Tom:
(laughs)
Karen:
Yes, yes, oh my gosh!
Bob:
I will say, that is how science works.
And that is actually the answer.
SFX:
(Lizzy and Karen laugh)
Tom:
Ohh!
Karen:
Ohh!
Bob:
So you're exactly right.
So the game was played in Wisconsin. And what would happen, it was so cold up there, it was down to negative— The kickoff was at -26° centigrade, which is -15° Fahrenheit; a windchill of -44° centigrade, which is -48° Fahrenheit.
But Lizzy, you're right. Because the whistles were metal, it would get stuck to the referees' lips.
Karen:
Oh my god, how funny!
Bob:
When they pulled it off, their lips would then bleed. So what happ— yeah.
So what happened throughout the game, they just improvised using hand signals and just talking back and forth. So voice commands and hand signals that they usually do.
Tom:
Oh, it's the NFL, so they'll now have invented extremely expensive whistle warmers that all referees have in their pockets. Just to do that.
Karen:
(laughs)
Bob:
Now, actually the NFL does use plastic whistles now because of that reason. So they used metal back then.
Karen:
Wow!
Bob:
They use plastic.
And this was called the Ice Bowl, the famous Ice Bowl that you may hear from sports history that was played in Wisconsin on the 31st of December. So it was so cold that referees couldn't use metal whistles because they would get stuck to their lips.
Karen:
I think not just stuck. I think the really colorful word you used was ripped off... (laughs)
Lizzy:
(laughs uproariously)
Karen:
...their lip skin.
Bob:
I like how we all got there in one way. We had pieces together from Tom, then Karen, and Lizzy's like, "Oh! Mm... science!"
SFX:
(Bob and Lizzy laugh)
Tom:
Good luck with this one, folks.
Levi puts down a bottle of cola on a flat table. When he returns the next day, he sees that the bottle's cap is now three inches higher than the bottle, even though no one has touched it. How?
I'll say that again.
Levi puts down a bottle of cola on a flat table. When he returns the next day, he sees that the bottle's cap is now three inches higher than the bottle, even though no one's touched it. How?
Karen:
This is a science thing.
Lizzy:
Yeah, this feels science...
Karen:
Sciencey. Air pressure, heat. The expansion of materials.
Bob:
So this has to be like one of those screw caps then. It probably screws off, because then it goes in height. So something may be turning the bottle cap possibly?
Wind shear! Science! I don't know, just...
SFX:
(Tom and Lizzy laugh)
Karen:
It's like those— They trap octopus in bottles to see if they can escape and open. And they now can open— They can unscrew bottle caps and just kind of squeeze out, ooze out.
This is not the solution.
Bob:
When Tom said "Levi", I was like, is this something to do with Levi's pants for a second? Like, why would he say Levi? (cracks up)
Tom:
I'm still stuck on trapping octopuses in bottles. Sorry, that's a thing?
Lizzy:
(wheezes)
Bob:
It's fine.
Karen:
They're amazing. They're amazing escape artists. Ama— It's almost beautiful to watch. It's not torturous at all.
Tom:
(snickers) Glad you clarified that, thank you.
Karen:
If you're concerned.
Tom:
This is not Levi's jeans.
Levi, in this case, is an arbitrary name that has been put in by our question team.
Lizzy:
It was a bottle of what?
Tom:
Cola.
Lizzy:
Bottle of cola.
Karen:
Cola.
Lizzy:
Which is carbonated.
Karen:
Yeah.
Lizzy:
And we've all done the Mentos in the cola. But it's three inches. So it's like a steady... It's like... It's not like blowing away. It's like at a steady three inches
Karen:
Yeah.
Lizzy:
above the bottle. So it's resting on something.
Bob:
Yeah, so... Would the cap still be touching the bottle then at that point? It's three inches.
Karen:
It could be like something got frozen or solidified in the bottle, and it has risen to the top, and it's pushing the cap or some sort of movement there.
Lizzy:
Oh yeah, I mean—
Karen:
At Lambeau Field! This coat was left on the coldest day.
Tom:
Yes. That's basically it.
But keep talking me through it. What's happened here?
Karen:
Oh! Gosh!
Bob:
So... This happens to me 'cause I like to put my bottle of water in the freezer sometimes to get it extra cold. So when the— And sometimes I forget it because I'm a dummy.
So I come the next day, it's a solid block of water and ice. But over time... when it starts to get to room temperature, it still has this form of ice in the middle of the bottle.
I don't know if they have to do something with that pushing it up or expansion of the plastic.
Karen:
He took it out from the freezer!
Lizzy:
So I've done this with Prosecco. You'll be unsurprised to know that in the past...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Lizzy:
I'm not saying anything about my lifestyle, but I have put a bottle of Prosecco in the freezer, forgotten about it, and then the next day, it's exploded.
Karen:
Explode.
Lizzy:
So I think if cola is the same as Prosecco, which I can only assume it is, then it's the bubbles, when you freeze it, is going to expand and push the cap off in the same way I lost a few bottles of Prosecco that day.
Tom:
Yes, this is absolutely right there.
Karen:
What a shame.
Tom:
There is a photo of this happening a couple of times.
If you leave a glass bottle of cola, the ones with the pop bottle caps on them ...outside, and it's cold enough, and the conditions are just right... then the expanding liquid will force the cap off and steadily create a column... rising up with the bottle cap resting on top, about three inches levitating above the top.
And my producer would like me to point out that Levi was not an arbitrary name.
It was a pun on 'levitating'.
SFX:
(guests groan loudly) (Bob and Lizzy laugh)
Tom:
And I think that's pretty much the reaction that he was going for!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Karen, it is over to you.
Karen:
Alright!
This question has been sent in by both Jim Grandpre and Kunmi.
In 2022, several US companies – including Olive Garden, Wendy's, and Chick-fil-A – began adding an ingredient to some of their food items. The ingredient was relatively expensive, bland, unnecessary, and lost them sales. Why did they do it?
Once again.
In 2022, several US companies – including Olive Garden, Wendy's, and Chick-fil-A – began adding an ingredient to some of their food items. The— This ingredient was relatively expensive, it's bland, unnecessary, and lost them sales. Why did they do it?
Tom:
I have seen this news story and have to sit out. Lizzy, Bob, over to you.
Karen:
Oh?
Lizzy:
I have a thought.
So, sometimes with namings of foods, you've got to be careful. You can't call a food a certain type of food if it doesn't have a percentage...
Like, for example, sausages. If they aren't a percentage pork, a certain percentage pork, you can just— you just call them meat sausages.
Tom:
Bangers, I believe they're called in Britain.
A banger is not a protected term. If you see something being sold as a 'banger', it does not have that much actual meat in it.
Lizzy:
So if it was like a chicken nugget... that you're like, "Well, this hasn't got enough chicken in, guys, to call these chicken nuggets. We've got to up the percentage of chicken." But I mean—
Karen:
You're on the path of this is to get around, you know, something. A little bit of a manipulation or a tactic.
Lizzy:
Ooh, is it— Okay, second thing, scrap that thing. So is it to call something 'fresh'... it's gotta have...
Karen:
(wheezes)
Lizzy:
...a bit of freshness in there?
So that they're like, "Well, we'll add this fresh ingredient to it so we can call the whole thing fresh, even though it might not be fresh"? Is this...
Bob:
See, I was thinking of something along the lines of some marketing ploy.
You know, somehow, if you try to say something like, to your point, "this is much fresher", and your brain's like, "Oh, they say it's fresher. I taste something that's different." Even though maybe they really didn't change it. That may have caused you to stop going to that establishment and not buying the food.
So, 'cause they mentioned Olive Garden, Wendy's, and Chick-fil-A specifically. Now, I know Chick-fil-A is known for their chicken. Wendy's also sells chicken. Olive Garden, pasta and breadsticks. Yes, they have chicken, but they also... maybe have salads and greens and lettuce or something. And lettuce is bland.
But they said they added an ingredient that has no taste. It's unnecessary. (laughs) I was—
See, if this was bagged food, I would say you just add air. It's like, oh yes, it's unnecessary. You get 50% less crisps in there, and then all of a sudden, it's like, "I'm not gonna buy this no more, 'cause I'm getting ripped off." I felt like they were getting ripped off for some reason.
Maybe the prices went up, and they lost sales because of that.
Lizzy:
Yeah, also air is traditionally free. As an ingredient.
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Bob:
Oh right, I forgot!
Tom:
Yeah, but you know they'd sell it to us if they could.
Lizzy:
Oh, yeah.
Bob:
They would. Like in Spaceballs.
Tom:
Karen, just to check here, that I'm on the right lines when I say I know this one.
It's not that the ingredient itself has absolutely no taste, it's just you wouldn't be able to taste the difference, right?
Karen:
Yes, I would agree.
The ingredient, I wouldn't say bland. It definitely tastes like something, but I think it's trying to say that you're not adding this ingredient for its taste or for its flavor.
Lizzy:
Oh, is it like when they added to bread, like iron and stuff? So, It was healthier. Is it like an added mineral?
Oh my god, is it actual iron? I think it's iron.
Karen:
It is not an added mineral, but that is one of the clues is that some bread manufacturers also adopted and made this change.
Tom:
Also, when you say "is it actual iron?", you know you can extract the iron from corn flakes if you do it right.
Lizzy:
I have seen this.
Tom:
If you mush up corn flakes, put them in water, just create a slurry that stuff can move around in, and you use a powerful magnet...
for some brands of fortified cereals, you can actually pull the iron out of the cereal.
Karen:
Nooo! Okay, hold on, let me put this on my to-do list.
SFX:
(Tom and Lizzy laugh)
Bob:
Buy bulks of cereal and just blend it all together. Make a smoothie out of it.
Tom:
It's your standard kid science experiment that you can do with a box of corn flakes and a magnet.
Bob:
See this is driving me crazy because I have eaten at all the establishments but only... not recently. And it's 2022, so I think— I feel like I should have... This is such—
I feel like this is such an American thing to do here, and it just screws over a lot of people. Lost sales.
Lizzy:
They lost sales, so it probably made it taste worse. In the same way that chips, if they're made from real potato, taste one way, but there's a way to make them... more delicious, and that is...
Like my favourite sausage. I don't know if I'm allowed to say my favourite sausage. But I like it.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Lizzy:
I like a Richmond. I'll say it. And Richmond are quite low pork percentage.
I don't know why I'm hooked on sausages, but it tastes good to me. And actually some of the posher sausages, with more pork, I'm a bit like...
Tom:
The poshages.
Oh, that didn't work.
Karen:
The posh—
Lizzy:
(cackles)
Tom:
I was sure that was going to work as a portmanteau, and then it just didn't.
Karen:
Poshages.
Tom:
Doesn't work. Doesn't work.
Bob:
I will say one thing that I find unnecessary with some foods, like when I order a sandwich from a local sandwich shop, and they say, "Hey, you want to add salt to this sandwich?"
I go, "Doesn't the meat have salt already? Why would I add more salt to a sandwich?"
So I wonder if there's something along tho— Is there something like salt that they're adding to it to make it— it's just so unnecessary for it?
Karen:
There's no culinary advantages or disadvantages. Like the taste, there's nothing to do with flavor or taste.
Tom:
You were talking about workarounds and ways to deal with regulations. I'd stick with that.
Lizzy:
Oh, okay.
Are they like adding some, like, you can't— For something to be a cake, it's got to be sweet? So are they like, "We don't have bread here. We just have cakes (laughs) either side of our burgers, because the sugar content's so high"?
Tom:
I mean, that was Subway in Ireland, wasn't it? They got ruled that their bread was actually cake, or something like it. Subway in Ireland, I think, had a ruling from the court. They could not call their bread 'bread' because the sugar content was too high.
Bob:
I remember that.
Karen:
Wow. I just learned recently that... Americans were famous for sugar in our bread. (laughs) That is, people complain about it. And I was like, "Oh, I had no idea."
Bob:
We're also getting footlong cookies from Subway soon. That is the most American thing I have ever heard.
Lizzy:
That sounds great! I want to go!
Karen:
And Bob, you know, you were— You talked about having eating at all of these places. You know, what's something that Wendy's and Chick-fil-A have in common and maybe some bread manufacturers have in common? You know, describe what you would eat at Chick-fil-A.
Bob:
You would have a sandwich, sandwich bun, hamburger, chicken sandwich... Salads, you have salads there.
Karen:
Yeah, think about what kind of laws and regulations that... food manufacturers and restaurants now have to be more conscious of and more aware of.
Bob:
The calorie counts of foods.
Lizzy:
Or allergens.
Bob:
Allergens.
Lizzy:
Oh, have they put peanuts in everything? So you can't know.
SFX:
(Karen and Bob wheeze)
Lizzy:
Wait, the opposite.
Karen:
Lizzy, keep going down, keep.
Lizzy:
Okay, if they put allergens in everything, a certain allergen in everything, then they don't have to try and regulate... avoiding it, right? So they'll just be like, "Oh, all of these have sulfites in, so we just... that's..." So we're not going to say they don't. And you don't have to mitigate against whether they actually do.
Karen:
And what would be the allergen?
Lizzy:
Oh my— Is it peanuts? Is it peanuts?
Tom:
Hamburger buns was the one you nearly got there, Bob.
Bob:
Hamburger— Oh, seeds. Sesame seeds, poppy seeds.
Tom:
Sesame seeds.
I remember this news story because a friend of mine is just incredibly angry about it. They just started adding sesame into all sorts of products because... Am I right, Karen, that the threshold for it changed or something like that? They had to declare it more carefully or something like that.
And the response was not, "Oh, we'll be more careful with our products."
It was, "Okay, we'll just put sesame in everything. It's marked up as an allergen now... enjoy!"
Lizzy:
Oh, wow!
Karen:
Yeah, so 1.6 million people in the US are allergic to sesame.
And so the US government passed a law stating that products containing sesame have to be clearly labeled. And that products not containing sesame would have to be carefully prepared without contamination.
Lizzy:
Oh.
Karen:
Rather than avoiding contamination, which is difficult and expensive, restaurants and places just choose to add sesame to almost everything... to sesame-free products. And then just mark them as "contain sesame" to avoid... avoid... cooking and preparing separately.
Bob:
And I've seen that exact wording now. Now that you mentioned it contains— I've seen that exact... Dang it!
Tom:
(laughs)
Bob:
Wow.
Tom:
We have rattled through some questions very quickly, folks. So we have unlocked the rare shiny bonus question.
Sent in by David Werner. Thank you very much, David.
What specific connection is there between a Boa constrictor and a Tyrannosaurus rex?
I'll say that again.
What specific connection is there between a Boa constrictor and a Tyrannosaurus rex?
Lizzy:
Neither has opposable thumbs.
Karen:
They're both villains in movies?
Bob:
They're both Pokémon.
Tom:
The trouble with a question like this is there are... (laughs) there are plausible alternate answers.
And, you know, villains in movies, you do have... the one from Disney's Robin Hood, Sir Hiss, and you have plenty of T-rex villains in movies.
Karen:
Jurassic Park.
Tom:
In this case, that's not quite what I'm looking for. Also, was the T-rex in Jurassic Park a villain?
Karen:
Actually, no, yeah, he was a...
Tom:
Antagonist, possibly.
Bob:
He was lost. He was lost.
Karen:
He was on a hero's journey.
Lizzy:
I would say the T-rex in Jurassic Park is actually kind of the hero at points, because he saves...
Tom:
Oh yes.
Lizzy:
the people from the velociraptors at the end. Oops, spoiler alert. But if you haven't seen Jurassic Park... you should have. It's been a while.
Bob:
I'm trying to think if it's something biological, where like, if a boa constrictor eats his prey, it's somehow like... it expands. And I don't, I mean, but T-rex is huge. So I don't know why that matters.
Maybe their skin? Maybe they had identical skin textures?
Karen:
Tyrannosaurus.
Tom:
It's not actually to do with any features of the animals themselves.
Bob:
(softly) Boa constrictor...
Karen:
Boa has three letters. Rex has three letters. Are they...
Tom:
It's not exactly that, but you are now in the right ballpark.
Lizzy:
The names!
Karen:
Are there species names?
Bob:
(gasps) Shorten names for the actual names of the animals, of the species?
Karen:
The actual species name that we use.
Tom:
Yes, Karen, you've got it. The Latin name for Boa constrictor is...?
Karen:
Is Boa— ah, Boa constrictor!
Tom:
And the Latin name for Tyrannosaurus rex is?
Lizzy:
Tyrannosaurus rex.
Karen:
Tyrannosaurus rex.
Tom:
Correct, yes. They are both animals where we use the Latin name as the common name.
Karen:
Wow!
Bob:
That's awesome. That's cool.
Tom:
I'm sure it's called scientific name or something like that. Hopefully no one's going to quibble me enough to say that's not real Latin. It's fine, it's fine.
Karen:
Genus, species. Wow, that's awesome!
Tom:
Thank you, producer David. Binomial name. There we go. That's your term.
Karen:
Binomial.
Tom:
One last order of business then.
A question sent in by Dean from Edinburgh.
Which gentle activity uses the phrase "stab it, strangle it, scoop out its guts, and throw it off a cliff"?
Bob:
Pumpkin carving.
Karen:
Oh!
Bob:
That was the first answer that came to mind when you said it at the beginning of the episode. I'm gonna say pumpkin carving.
Tom:
Scoop out its guts. I see why you said that, yeah.
Lizzy:
(softly) Stab it...
Tom:
It is a craft activity. And you're right, Lizzy. You're running through this in your head. It's a mnemonic to remember how you do something.
Lizzy:
Scoop out its— I feel like I've been told this! I feel like I've been told to scoop out something's guts, and it's driving me mad.
Karen:
And throw it off a cliff. So it has to be biodegradable, hopefully. Why is it a cliff?
Lizzy:
It's not like... Oh my god. It's not like knitting, is it?
Tom:
Yes! Yes it is!
Lizzy:
Oh my god!
Tom:
Something in your brain reacted to that. Yes, it's a knitting activity. Do you want to talk through what that might actually be?
Lizzy:
Oh my god, stab it, scoop out it's guts. Oh my god, is that how to start tying off a needle or something? I feel like I did this during lockdown, and it was another unsuccessful craft that just ended up in the cupboard.
Tom:
Yeah, it's a basic knit stitch in knitting.
You stab it with the needle, you strangle it by wrapping the yarn over the needle, you scoop the wrap of yarn through the stitch, and you take the original stitch off the needle, and you throw it off a cliff.
It is a gory and gruesome way of remembering the four stages of a regular knit stitch.
And if I've got any details of that wrong, to the entire knitting community, I apologise. I do not want to be on the wrong side of you.
I have seen what you can do.
Karen:
Mm-mm!
Tom:
With that, congratulations to all our players. Thank you for being here and getting through the episode.
What is going on in your lives? Where can people find out about you?
We will start today with Karen.
Karen:
Well, I'm now starting to come down from my five venti caffeine high. You can find me on goodjobbrain.com, which is a trivia podcast available on all podcast apps.
Tom:
Lizzy!
Lizzy:
Yep, search Degrees of Error on the various social medias. We have most of them. And we've got some shows coming up, with Murder, She Didn't Write throughout the year. We'd love to see you at them.
Tom:
And Bob.
Bob:
You can catch me streaming video games and interactive games at twitch.tv/buzzerbob, and also going to buzzerblog.com for all the latest news in game shows in the US, UK, and around the world.
Tom:
And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your ideas for questions.
You can see us multiple times a week at youtube.com/lateralcast, where there are video highlights, and we are at @lateralcast basically everywhere.
Thank you so much to Bob Hagh.
Bob:
Woo-hoo, we did it!
Tom:
Lizzy Skrzypiec.
Lizzy:
Mazel tov.
Tom:
Karen Chu.
Karen:
Cheerio!
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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