Get the RSS feed or search “Lateral” on your podcast app
| Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode |
Episode 92: Inverted guitars
Published 12th July, 2024
Jenny Draper, David Bennett and Annie Rauwerda face questions about repetitious races, thankful towns and natural nourishment.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes'), Falcon Dives ('Teenage Color') courtesy of epidemicsound.com. ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Matt Simpson, Andy Archer, Leigh, Richard Hart, David Sansom. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Why are many Japanese people familiar with a phrase that translates as "raw wheat, raw rice, raw egg"?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Are you tired of the same old boring panel shows? Craving for something more witty and stimulating?
SFX:
♫ (upbeat retro pop)
Tom:
Well, fret no more! Introducing new Lateral with Tom Scott!
The podcast that will make your brain more twisted than a pretzel in a tornado.
Lateral is the show that tackles the questions that other shows can't reach. Is a hot dog just a meat popsicle? Is a zebra black with white stripes or a poorly painted horse?
But that's not all! With every edition, you'll receive three incredible guests! Collect the complete set in just 93 issues!
So, what are you waiting for? Listen to Lateral with Tom Scott today, and start your journey to becoming to becoming a puzzle solving master. Act now, and we'll send you a free imaginary lateral thinking cap!
No pretzels were harmed in the making of this broadcast. Actual thinking cap not included. Consult your doctor before attempting any lateral thinking while operating heavy machinery.
(inhales loudly)
SFX:
(music stops)
Tom:
And our three guests today... (wheezes exhaustedly)
Did that in one take, absolutely. There were no splices there whatsoever!
Jenny:
Uh-huh.
Tom:
First of all, joining me (laughs) on this incredible journey today, we have:
from the London History Show and London tour guide extraordinaire, J. Draper, welcome back.
Jenny:
Hello, good to be here again. Thank you for having me.
Tom:
Well, thank you for taking the time. It is high season for you now as you record this. The tourists are in London.
Jenny:
They have descended. It's busy, busy, busy.
Tom:
Alright. How is work going?
Jenny:
It's really good. Unlike the first time I was on this podcast, it's not as hot as it was that year. That year was a record-breaking heat wave in London. And this year, so far, it's been cloudy, but not too rainy. So it's been much easier.
Tom:
And are you finding time for YouTube as well in all this?
Jenny:
Just about.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Jenny:
So I did a video recently on London's railings, which is a fascinating and extremely niche topic, which I've been really surprised at the— I'm really surprised at the reaction to. People seem to like it, even though I thought it was just, I just made that for me.
So yeah, I am getting on, but it's a lot. It's a lot to get on with.
Annie:
Can I ask you one question I've always wondered about tour guides?
Jenny:
Yeah, go for it.
Annie:
Do you know them all in the different cities?
Jenny:
No, no, we don't all know each other. God. (giggles) No, I— So the London ones, we are pretty tight knit. But I still don't even know all the ones in London. Let alone Manchester, Edinburgh, York... and let alone alone, people in other countries, no.
Annie:
Well, I'm a little disappointed.
Jenny:
It's quite a bigger field.
SFX:
(Jenny and Tom laugh)
Annie:
Because I was hoping that there was this global network, but that's okay.
Jenny:
I'm not gonna tell you about the secret handshake on Lateral podcast, obviously.
Tom:
(laughs)
Also joining us from the depths of Wikipedia, Annie Rauwerda, welcome back to the show.
Annie:
I'm so excited to be back.
Tom:
I feel like that question to Jenny was just fodder for another Wikipedia article. Is there a reliable source on this ghostly network of tour guides that permeates the globe?
Annie:
I don't know. I haven't really looked into this. Maybe I will later today. It could be interesting.
It'd be kind of a bummer if I found out that there was one and Jenny wasn't invited.
Jenny:
(gasps)
SFX:
(Tom and David laugh)
Tom:
Oh no!
Jenny:
No! My fellow tour guides. How could you do this to me?
Annie:
I don't know.
Jenny:
Annie spilled the beans on the secret network of Freemason tour guides who have excluded me.
Annie:
(chuckles)
Jenny:
Yeah, if you see information on the secret network now on Wikipedia with the little citation "Lateral podcast"...
Tom:
Yep, absolutely.
Jenny:
Then you'll know where it came from.
Tom:
Do you edit Wikipedia, Annie, or are you just pulling out the highlights and showing them to the world?
Annie:
Well, I edit it kind of a lot. That's how I found— I would say that's how I find maybe half the things I post. It's really addicting.
I think that at first, the first few hours of it, it's confusing, you don't get the rules. But once you stick with it, you can't stop.
Tom:
Well, good luck with the show today.
The third member of our panel is a brand new Lateral player. From his own YouTube channel, pianist David Bennett. How are you doing?
David:
I'm good, thank you. Thank you for getting me involved. Pleasure to be here.
Tom:
This is your first time here. You're our one new player today. How are you feeling about it?
David:
A little nervous, but I feel like if I just say what I think, even if it's stupid, then I might actually... stumble across the answer, perhaps.
Tom:
That is absolutely the right way to do it.
David:
(chuckles)
Tom:
You are, I don't know whether to call you pianist or musician. What would you call yourself?
David:
I guess, yeah, piano is my first instrument, but I'm mainly known for nerding out about music theory. Going into far too much depth analysing songs by the Beatles and Radiohead, that sort of thing.
Tom:
Well, good luck to all of our players.
And now I'm going to make you a special, one time only offer, which is today's first question:
A street artist painted an inoffensive mural on a wall under a bridge in Juazeiro, Brazil. City officials arranged for it to be whitewashed for safety reasons, though a cartoon character should have made people suspicious. How?
I'll say that one more time.
A street artist painted an inoffensive mural on a wall under a bridge in Juazeiro, Brazil. City officials arranged for it to be whitewashed for safety reasons, though a cartoon character should have made people suspicious. How?
Jenny:
I think I probably know this one. So I'm going to sit out for a little bit.
Tom:
Oh, okay.
Jenny:
I absolutely do not know this one.
Tom:
(laughs)
David:
Yeah, I don't— I had not heard of this. The first thing that comes to my mind though, especially the cartoon character bit, is something to do with Disney or Mickey Mouse.
Annie:
Copyright.
David:
Yeah, wasn't there something, I can't remember where, when it was, but in some nursery or something where this mural to Mickey Mouse had to be sandblasted off the wall because it was unlicensed? Maybe it's a similar situation?
Tom:
Disney does go after trademarks. There's this difference between copyright and trademark, and a trademark is a thing you can lose if you don't defend it. So, that is... the excuse Disney uses. Mostly justified for going after the nurseries that put Disney murals on the wall(!)
Jenny:
Ice cream vans across the country fear. They quake in terror when they hear the Disney lawyers approach.
Tom:
Although that said, they could put Steamboat Willie Mickey, up there now, can't they?
David:
That's true, yeah.
Jenny:
Yeah, yeah. All the kids love Steamboat Willie Mickey.
SFX:
(Tom and David laugh)
Annie:
I don't know where the city is, do you?
David:
No. So Tom said Brazil, right? But I don't know where. Never heard of the city.
Tom:
You don't need to know more than... Honestly, this could've been anywhere. But in this case, it happened to be in this city in Brazil.
David:
So it's inoffensive... yet had to go. If it's not the copyright or the trademark thing.
Tom:
It did say whitewashed for safety.
David:
For safety.
Annie:
Safety? Is it a cartoon character that turns people violent? Do you remember that episode of the show... What was the anime show that there were strobe lights and a—
David:
Oh, Pokémon with a Polygon or Porygon?
Jenny:
No, it was...
David:
Was it that, or was it something else?
Jenny:
It was like... It was like a Transformers style show. I think it had Gundams in it. And it had, yeah, it had— It triggered epileptic seizures, right? Because it had flashing effects in it.
Tom:
I think that was a Pokémon episode. It may have happened with others.
David:
I think it happened with more than one thing, actually, yeah.
Tom:
Yeah, the big incident that got it banned, certainly that episode was never shown in the UK, is it was a lot of red flashes at a particular frequency, which is particularly bad for epilepsy. It would never have been— Okay, sorry. We're going on a diversion about broadcast nerdery here. This is...
Jenny:
(giggles)
Tom:
There is a program, a set of programs that you can run any video through, and it will tell you whether it could cause an epileptic reaction. It'll give a score, and over a certain score, you just— you can't run that on television.
Jenny:
Oh wow.
Tom:
Now, in theory, YouTube and the online broadcasters could do the same thing.
I assume Netflix has it somewhere in the pipeline. YouTube could absolutely process all the videos and put an epilepsy warning up. And they don't, and I think they should.
Jenny:
No, what?
Tom:
But yes, producer David has just said it was "Dennō Senshi Porygon" from the Pokémon anime. That was the big incident.
I strongly suspect, Jenny, you're remembering something else, 'cause this will have happened here as well.
Jenny:
I think what I'm remembering is the episode of The Simpsons.
David:
Yeah, that's what I thought you were, yeah.
Tom:
Ah!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jenny:
Where this happens.
David:
Yeah.
Tom:
Battling Seizure Robots. That was the name.
Jenny:
Battling Seizure Robots. Man.
Tom:
Yes.
Jenny:
Yeah, I think that's what I'm remembering.
David:
Half the things I know about the world, I learned from The Simpsons.
Jenny:
Yeah, absolutely. That show raised me, man.
David:
(laughs)
Tom:
Cartoons and seizures is not the safety issue here. Because it'd be difficult to get a seizure from a static mural.
David:
Did the cartoon or the mural unintentionally encourage someone to do something dangerous? Like, I don't know, get in a river that they shouldn't be getting in or something like that? Or cross a road when they shouldn't be crossing it?
Tom:
It's along those lines. You're a little closer there, yeah. It certainly... encouraged... (laughs) You would be injured if you went about this the wrong way, yes.
Annie:
Did it— Was it an optical illusion that made people run into the wall or something like that?
David:
Ooh.
Tom:
Keep going, Annie.
Annie:
I don't even know how to keep going from there. Okay... once you run into the wall, you have... health issues.
SFX:
(Tom and David laugh)
Annie:
Maybe it was an optical illusion that distracted cars?
Tom:
Yep.
Annie:
Maybe it was a... I don't know, scantily clad woman or something. I don't know.
SFX:
(David and Tom laugh)
Tom:
That's not— That's not an optical illusion, but...
Annie:
Okay, okay, okay.
Tom:
There is a cartoon optical illusion that would absolutely cause someone to drive or run into a wall.
David:
Is it the Looney Tunes thing?
Tom:
Keep going.
David:
Where Road— I can't— Is it Roadrunner, and they paint the tunnel one so he runs into it? And, is it that?
Tom:
Jenny, is this what you had?
Jenny:
Yeah, yeah, it's gotta be Roadrunner painting a fake tunnel, right?
Tom:
Yeah.
Jenny:
Not Roadrunner. Wile E. Coyote.
David:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom:
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Roadrunner is next to it. This is a big painting of a completely fake tunnel on a wall, with a painting of Roadrunner next to it.
So when you were like, copyrighted, trademarked cartoon characters being used in murals...
It's technically. But that is not why the city closed it down. They were actually a little bit worried that the illusion might work. It's a pretty good tunnel.
Jenny:
Oh my god.
David:
Yeah, must have done it really convincingly to genuinely pose a public safety issue.
Tom:
There is an urban legend that a car did crash into it. It almost certainly did not happen. But yes, it was painted over because the Roadrunner tunnel mural was just a little bit too dangerous.
Jenny:
(giggles)
David:
Brilliant.
Annie:
Man, you know... I'm glad that people are being safe. But if it did exist, and if there happened to be... I don't know, some way to know that no one was going to die. And if there was a person that had a YouTube channel that recorded the people... That would be kind of fun.
Tom:
(laughs)
Annie:
Kind of like that—
Jenny:
Live stream from the fake tunnel.
Annie:
Kind of like that bridge that's really low, that trucks always... the trucks always break.
Tom:
Yes.
Jenny:
Oh my god.
Tom:
There's the— I think it's the 11-foot-8 bridge or something like that in the east of the US.
Annie:
It's in Virginia or something?
Tom:
It just keeps scraping the top of trucks off. And they've raised it, and it still occasionally scrapes the top of trucks off. And someone just has a camera pointed at that bridge, because once every month or so, someone will take it.
Annie:
The can opener.
Jenny:
Wait, the drivers look at it and they're like, "Yeah, I could make that."
Tom:
Yeah! It's people in rental trucks. They're on a commercial home GPS. Not one that has bridge heights in it. They're like, "Yeah, that's fine, I can take it".
Jenny:
Oh my gosh.
Tom:
But yes, this is, I'll bring us back.
This is the Roadrunner Tunnel in Brazil that was painted over for safety reasons, just in case someone thought it was real.
Each of our guests has brought a question along. We will start today with Annie. What have you got for us?
Annie:
This question has been sent in by Andy Archer.
A Glasgow train going south to London stops midway at Carlisle. A London train going north to Glasgow also stops at Carlisle a few minutes later. Both sets of passengers and crew swap trains, and then both trains reverse direction. Why?
One more time.
A Glasgow train going south to London stops midway at Carlisle. A London train going north to Glasgow also stops at Carlisle a few minutes later. Both sets of passengers and crew swap trains, and then both trains reverse direction. Why?
Jenny:
Just by coincidence, everybody on that train accidentally got on the wrong train.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jenny:
And they were like, "Back it up, back it up, we're starting again. Everyone go back to where you were".
Annie:
That would feel so good if you were the one. But no, unfortunately that's not it.
Tom:
We've never had a "two trains arrive at a station and one is going a certain speed" lateral thinking question on this show before. We've never had a two trains one. It's about time.
David:
So, I can't think exactly where Carlisle is, but we're talking about the Scottish border, right?
Tom:
Yeah.
David:
So, is there some reason that the trains could only work one side of the border and not the other, perhaps?
Tom:
Yeah, Carlisle is just south of the border. But why would all the passengers and crew switch back? My assumption is rail nerds because there are a lot of them and rail nerds will happily go on weird trains.
Jenny:
Yeah.
Tom:
What's the name for it? Line bashing. They call it line bashing.
Which is where if there is a train that due to some diversion or some weird quirk of how the schedule works that day is being taken on a train line that very few trains go on, railway nerds will specifically buy that ticket just so they can say, "I have been on this line. I've been on this little curve of track that's been ticked off by other things."
However, that doesn't involve swapping everyone off at Carlisle and going back.
Jenny:
Well, I mean it could be something like that, but... if, as you say, if it's, if we're on— If we're sort of crossing the border, we've got a train coming up from England and one coming down from Scotland. Maybe it's some sort of...
You know like when they built the Channel Tunnel, the French and the English came and they met in the middle, and they passed gifts to each other when they met? Could it be like that, the trains kissed? And then...
SFX:
(David and Tom laugh)
Jenny:
And it was some sort of English–Scottish public relations exercise?
Tom:
You know how I was mocking the "Oh, this is two trains arriving at a station" speed question thing earlier?
I just realised that I've only just worked out that if the trains met, the crew and passengers swapped, and then the trains went back, then the people did not go back to the destination.
David:
People continued on.
Tom:
I only just twigged that bit of logic in my head, that actually the passengers did get to the other place. They didn't return home, but the trains did.
David:
This is what I'm thinking, is that for some reason, just the train wasn't allowed to go because of some regulation or something, but the people obviously wanted to go to... Glasgow or vice versa, is that? So I don't know, is there some sort of weird rule one side of the border where the train has to offer something?
Jenny:
Yeah, like the tracks are different sizes.
David:
Something weird.
Tom:
It's not on the UK rail network. There's plenty of places where that would be the case, but to my knowledge, Carlisle's just a... It's a regular station on the west coastline, I think.
David:
Was there a connection they had to make on some— There's a body of water or something that the trains couldn't go across? So they had to get off one, go over on a, I don't know, tiny ferry, and then get on another engine on the other side, maybe?
Tom:
No, it's Carlisle. It's just a regular station.
Jenny:
Was there a protest on the track? A swan on the track?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jenny:
Leaves on the line?
Tom:
Was this scheduled? Was this the intention of everyone involved, or was it just a complete mess up?
Annie:
The situation was not planned. But the solution seemed easiest.
Tom:
Huh.
Jenny:
Was there something wrong with the trains?
Tom:
'Cause I've been on a train that's completely failed before. It was lovely.
The guard gets on the PA and says, "We've gotta go trackside to see if the train is broken or broken-broken".
I'm like, okay, everyone understands what you mean there, thanks.
As it turns out, just broken. We went on to the next station, but...
Jenny:
Oh, thank god. Yeah, you don't want us to get off and walk on the track.
Tom:
We would have to be towed. They would have to send another train out, just kind of Thomas the Tank Engine style, just pull us out.
David:
(snickers)
Annie:
Would that be amazing for railfans to cross off all the times they've been towed on every railroad?
David:
They'd love that.
Tom:
Oh, it's the same as rollercoaster nerds who want the rollercoaster to break down so they can get evac'd from it at some point, yeah.
Annie:
I can't start getting into this. Otherwise I'll waste all my time going on trains.
Tom:
Yeah.
Annie:
I like where— I like what you guys were thinking.
SFX:
(Tom and David laugh)
Tom:
Would you like to remind us what we were thinking?
Annie:
I loved that you were talking about how maybe... there were some issues that arose with... the train...s.
Jenny:
Okay. If the people all changed over, was there something on the trains that had to go back? Is there something that can't cross over the border?
Annie:
Quick, the Crown Jewel! We accidentally...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jenny:
Is it the Stone of Scone?
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Jenny:
Or something?
Tom:
It's Carlisle, so...
Jenny:
The Prime Minister is like, "Oh no, I left my luggage on that train, send it back".
Tom:
And it's Scotland, so it's not a Brexit thing.
Annie:
Not Brexit. Think about the trains. What's something that could have happened that would cause a problem when you're going in one direction, but wouldn't be a problem in a different direction?
Jenny:
All the front-facing seats... broke, the windows...
Tom:
They both hit a bird, and they... That's quite grisly, but the windscreen was just covered in bird.
Jenny:
Ohh! We have to— We've gotta drive backwards. We can't use that window anymore.
Annie:
Tom, that was—
Jenny:
It's gonna be easier to—
Annie:
That was not correct, but that was really close. It's just not birds.
Jenny:
For a minute, I thought you were gonna give it to him.
Annie:
I can't give you— It's different enough.
Tom:
They hit a herd of cows, and the train could—
Annie:
Okay, it's not an animal. It's not something that's alive. It's just a thing that is much more normal.
Tom:
Cracked windscreen? No, because they wouldn't keep the train running.
Annie:
It's like the most normal thing that hits a windshield. There's even a tool that helps you deal with it.
Jenny:
Bugs.
Tom:
Too many bugs?
Annie:
No, not bugs.
Jenny:
Rain?
Annie:
Rain.
Jenny:
What?
Tom:
What?
Jenny:
In Scotland?
Annie:
Okay, so—
Jenny:
Rain in Scotland? Unheard of.
Annie:
And what was broken?
David:
Well, the windscreen wiper.
Jenny:
The windscreen wipers.
Tom:
The windscreen wipers.
Jenny:
That was easier?
Tom:
(sighs)
Annie:
Apparently.
Tom:
Yes, it is, because you— To get the replacement part for a train out there, you would need to go to the depot, get someone to either drive or take a train there, replace the windscreen wiper in situ, which might not even be possible without going to the depot.
Jenny:
You have to call the guy, and he stands around kicking the wheels, going...
David:
Gonna cost ya.
Jenny:
"Oh, they don't make parts for them anymore, mate."
Tom:
But if you just swap the trains in the other direction— Oh my god, that's clever.
Jenny:
(laughs heartily)
David:
Wow.
Jenny:
But once the trains get to the destination, they are stuck, right?
Tom:
Yes, yes they are, but... in the meantime, they don't have to pay compensation to all the delayed passengers.
Jenny:
Yeah.
Annie:
I liked the idea of... of a theft, some sort of heist. I thought that would have been a little bit more exciting, but it's okay. Life can't be a movie.
SFX:
(group snickering)
Tom:
Thank you to Richard Hart for this next question.
At the 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow, how was a world record broken three times in 1.6 seconds?
I'll say that again.
At the 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow, how was a world record broken three times in 1.6 seconds?
Annie:
There's something popping into my head.
Jenny:
It can't be that three people all broke the record in one race, because you would only— The first person would break it, and the other two wouldn't break his.
David:
They'd be too slow, if it was a normal race.
Annie:
I just thought there were going to be events happening simultaneously.
Tom:
Oh! I see what you mean, like, track and field and there's multiple things going. No, in this case, it is the same world record being broken.
Annie:
Okay, what's the sport that you have— that you would win if you take longer?
Jenny:
Oh, is it like the amount of flips you do if you're a gymnast, and they got three more flips than the world record? So they break it once and then twice and then three times, something like that?
But obviously not 'cause no one can do six flips.
David:
I don't— I'm thinking, what sport could it be?
'Cause it can't, like you were saying, Jenny, it can't be a normal sort of time-based thing. Because if someone finished first, by definition, the second person can't be faster. But yeah, like the flip thing, what sports could it— It might be some weird sport that we're... Because there's lots and lots of sports it could be, I guess.
Annie:
It might be some weird sport. I saw some— I saw some eyebrows.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Annie:
I saw some expressive eyebrows.
Jenny:
I've not been checking out my eyebrow cam.
Tom:
I don't have a good poker face on these. We record these on video calls, despite it being mostly an audio show. And occasionally, my eyes... there's not a good poker face here.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Jenny:
Okay, we got a bit of a twitch on unusual sports, did we?
Annie:
Weird sports, hmm.
Jenny:
This is the Winter Olympics, right?
Tom:
No, 1980 Olympic Games in Moscow.
Jenny:
Ah, okay.
Tom:
So, Summer Olympics.
Jenny:
So, it can't be that weird. Although they are doing breakdancing this year, right?
Tom:
Yeah, there's definitely some new sports coming. But this is 1980s. This is just what you call the regular Olympic sports.
Jenny:
Okay, so normal sports. So, the eyebrow twitch was just a coincidence.
Tom:
Mmmh.
David:
What sports?
Jenny:
Oh, no, don't do that!
Tom:
You're right, I don't want to give you anything more here, 'cause—
Jenny:
Right, okay. 'Cause once we've got the sport, we've got it, right?
Tom:
(laughs) Yeah, absolutely. Once you have the sport, you've got it.
Jenny:
Right, okay.
David:
So what other sports are there?
Jenny:
So, we've just got to name sports.
Annie:
Oh boy.
Jenny:
So, like, the hammer. Funniest Olympic sports. Weirdest Olympic sports.
Annie:
The hammer— The hammer throw? Is that what you just...
Jenny:
That's what I said, but...
Annie:
Oh, okay.
Jenny:
I mean, it doesn't make sense, right?
Tom:
It is broken three times in 1.6 seconds. And you're absolutely right, David, when you said that a race, just a regular race, can't work that way. The first person to finish that race would break the record. The second and third would be like, "Oh, I would have done, but no." But in this case, no. The record fell three times, 1.6 seconds.
David:
Is there a sport where you have to be the slowest? Maybe, no. That's not a thing, is it?
Annie:
Golf is slow, but that's certainly not the answer.
SFX:
(David and Tom laugh)
Annie:
I'm just kinda speaking aloud.
Jenny:
It's got to be a distance thing, like... Well, I mean, like a long jump or a hammer, right? If you— There'd be lines on the ground of how far you've got it, and it goes past three lines.
Annie:
Diving? Like synchronized stuff? Where they do scoring at the same time? I don't— I don't— Maybe not.
David:
Was it three individuals? Because if it was one individual, and they suddenly... you know, like you're saying with the flips, Jenny, like they did one flip more than the record, two, then three. I don't think you'd count those as three.
Jenny:
No, you wouldn't, right?
David:
That would just be the new one world record.
Jenny:
Yeah, you're right.
David:
But if there's three individuals doing something... in very close succession... Maybe they're on a team or something or they're against each other or...
Annie:
How are the ways you can win? Harder... better, faster, stronger.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Annie:
I don't know if that helps your thinking.
Tom:
Higher, faster, further. I think it's something like that for the Olympic motto. But I can't remember what order those go in. I've probably got one of them wrong.
Annie:
Well, that's not quite as fun to dance to in the club, so...
Tom:
No, it's not.
Jenny:
I can't do the finger dance to that one. Is it... There was that bike race... Was this earlier this year where they tricked... There was a group of three Chinese people who were all running... the race along with a load of others, and they pretended that one of them lapped everybody, and then the rest of them pretended that they hadn't, that she hadn't lapped them. So everyone forgot that she lapped them, basically, and she won despite being behind everybody else? Was it something like that? Like some weird trick?
Tom:
There is a weird trick to this question, but it was not the athletes. This was three athletes crossing a finish line, one after the other, 1.6 seconds in total apart. How could one of those athletes finish later, but still perform better?
Annie:
Is it something where they... they started at different points on the track, or on the curve, and so some people on the outside have to run longer?
Tom:
They didn't start at different parts of the track, but they started... in a different... position. Maybe with a different score.
David:
Oh, is it like triathlon or something? Where there's like, it's a cumulative score across the three events?
Tom:
Keep going, David.
David:
And what is it again, in triathlon? It's cycling, swimming, and running, is it? But I don't know [what] the order is.
Annie:
It's— oh I do because I have done them. Swimming is— Well—
Tom:
(laughs)
Jenny:
Go Annie!
Annie:
It's swimming first because that's the most dangerous. So they want you to be the most fresh. Then biking and then running because it's so hard to get injured in running. So they just let you do it really tired.
Tom:
You've basically got all the bits now.
Annie:
Pentathlon?
Tom:
Yeah.
Annie:
Great!
Tom:
Yes, so, what's going on there?
Jenny:
So, you've got someone who's done really well on previous events, but they come in third in the last event.
Tom:
Yeah, which means that?
Jenny:
So, that means that the person who came in first in the last event breaks the record first, and then the person behind them, and then the person behind them. The third person is the winner overall.
David:
Wow.
Tom:
Yes.
And each one of those three people from the Soviet team in 1980 broke the modern pentathlon record. Each one after the other. Olga Kuragina finished first, got a score of 4,875.
1.2 seconds later, her teammate crosses the line. She was slower, but has a higher overall score in the pentathlon, so the world record falls again. And then 0.4 seconds later, 5,083.
So that is three world record performances, one after the other, in sort of the wrong order, but enough that that record fell three times.
It is a multi-sport question, which is almost a cliché among question writers. I looked at that and thought, we've done heptathlon questions before. No doubt we'll do them again. Because it just has all sorts of rules tricks like this.
Jenny:
Imagine having a world record for 0.4 seconds. You can't even trot that out at parties.
Tom:
(laughs) Oh, you can.
Jenny:
"I... I had a world record for 0.4."
Tom:
Oh, I think that's almost a better story.
Jenny:
(giggles) "I was robbed!"
Annie:
Because then you're not bragging quite as much. It's not as gauche.
Jenny:
It's true, yeah, yeah. You can't just go up to a party and be like, "I actually currently have the world record".
Tom:
David, over to you for the next question.
David:
Okay.
A wall mount for a guitar is sold with a separate bracket to hold a plectrum. The guitar must be mounted with the sound hole facing the floor. What is this for?
I'll read that again.
A wall mount for a guitar is sold with a separate bracket to hold a plectrum. The guitar must be mounted with the sound hole facing the floor. What is this for?
Tom:
It's a tiny guitar for mice.
SFX:
(David and Annie chuckle)
Tom:
Actually, that doesn't need to be facing the floor. For some reason, I was like, it's on the floor, that is going to be used by mice. No, that's nonsense. That was nowhere in the question.
Jenny:
Is it an art piece, and the reason the plectrum's mounted separately is because it's being played upside down for some reason?
Tom:
It's only just occurred to me that I'm pretty sure a plectrum is the thing that people strum the strings with, if they don't want to use their fingers.
David:
Yeah, it's also called a pick, like a little triangle.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jenny:
So there's also famous plectrums, right? Like, Brian May played with a shilling, I think, or some sort of coin.
Annie:
Is it a specific thing for a special room that has... acoustics and echoes and something like that?
Tom:
Here's a morbid idea.
It is someone's famous guitar, and they are dead and buried in a cemetery, and it is facing down so they can play it from the grave?
David:
(snickers)
Annie:
I'm taking that as a no.
David:
It's not to do with dead people.
Jenny:
Is it a famous person's guitar?
David:
It's— No, it's not to do with anyone famous.
Jenny:
Okay, is it being displayed upside down or, as you said, the sound hole's "facing the floor", does that just mean they've cut the sound hole in a weird place?
Tom:
Oh, yeah, it's just a regular guitar sitting upright, but they've just put a hole in the bottom for...
Jenny:
(laughs)
David:
The sound hole is in the normal place on the guitar. The guitar isn't... It's a standard guitar.
Tom:
So it's gotta project— is it projecting for someone who's on the ground maybe?
So it is, I mean, I was talking about mice earlier, but... if you have to reach up and play this... is there some way that the sound reflects, or bounces, or some acoustic thing that means you'd want to point it down?
David:
It's not really to do with the sound, the reason it's faced the direction it's facing.
Annie:
Is it, does it, is it an adaptive technology for somebody who has a movement disability or something?
David:
No, it's not. I like the idea, but no. That is, that's not what it is.
Annie:
That would've been cool.
Jenny:
That would fit. That would fit everything.
Annie:
So many things would have been cool. If only we could have had a heist of it on the train.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Annie:
Somebody can have this movie idea.
David:
The guitar isn't just ornamental.
Jenny:
So you are playing it, or something is playing it.
Annie:
Is this that you can shake—shake a maraca and do this as a one-man band?
David:
That sounds amazing. But once again, no. But I feel like that is an actual opportunity there. Someone should do that.
Tom:
So, 'cause I was thinking... Yeah, we've already said accessibility, but like wheelchair access guitar. But at that point, you can just hold a guitar. That's not what you need a wheelchair for. You can just...
Annie:
(stifles giggle)
David:
So, I'll tell you... it always plays the same chord.
Annie:
Whoa!
Tom:
Oh?
Jenny:
So it is being played by a robot or something. Like, you said the plectrum was mounted, so that is a robot arm playing it, right?
Tom:
So...
Jenny:
Or something like that.
Tom:
It could be on a mechanism where a door opens, or something happens. Something gets moved in the world. And also attached to that is this plectrum that causes...
It is the doorbell for James Bond's house. If someone enters James Bond's house, it just plays the Bond...
SFX:
(Tom and Jenny imitate guitar)
Tom:
Plays the Bond chord as the door opens.
David:
Tom basically has it.
Jenny:
Oh!
David:
Yeah.
Jenny:
Go Tom!
Tom:
But we don't know which place it is yet. It's got— There's gotta be some famous chord or something like that, surely.
David:
Yeah, don't focus too much on... Why would something... Why would a guitar only be able to play one chord? Just from a practical point?
It's not a particularly special chord. It could be any chord, but only, only the one.
Jenny:
Because it's only got three strings?
Tom:
It's not meant for a person to hold. It's just locked down in, it's tuned to that one chord.
David:
So Tom, you've basically got it right.
The guitar is mounted upside down above a door. And then the plectrum is mounted on the door. So when you open the door, the plectrum goes across the strings and plays the open strings, which you would have tuned to a nice chord, I guess. Otherwise you'd just be getting the sound of open strings, which is not so nice.
Tom:
It's the guitar equivalent of those chimes you get when you open a shop door or something like that.
David:
I think it'd be perfect for a music shop. It'd be amazing.
Annie:
Is that something that people have done before, or did the—
Jenny:
So hang on, this isn't like any one particular person who—
David:
No, so this is a product you can buy on the internet. I had never heard of it before, and it sounds... The thing that struck me is it would be really awkward to tune, because over time that, it would go out of tune, so you'd be reaching up to awkwardly get it back into the chord you wanted.
Annie:
I'm also surprised that there's a market for it. Hello sharks. Today I'm going to be selling a...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Annie:
Yeah, extremely— It's not even that loud probably. I guess it's not really a doorbell though. It's just an entry greeting.
David:
I think it's, yeah, more like a chime to let you know someone's coming.
Jenny:
I mean, if I walked in through someone's door, and I heard a brrring, and I looked up, and there was a heavy object poised directly above me, it would make me instantly a little bit on edge, to be honest. The entire time I was there, I'm like, what else could fall on me?
Annie:
This feels like one of those situations where it's like, he's a ten, but every door in his house is hooked up to an instrument.
David:
Oh, a different chord for each room. That'd be great.
Jenny:
You open it, and there's four doors, and they play Wonderwall in succession.
David:
That would be good.
Tom:
Thank you to David Sansom for this question.
In Japan, there is a 15-minute walk from the RIKEN research centre to Wakōshi station. Gold is found on the pavement at one point. Silver is on the ground if you walk another 260 yards. What will you find at the end?
I'll say that again.
In Japan, there is a 15-minute walk from the RIKEN research centre to Wakōshi station. Gold is found on the pavement at one point. Silver is on the ground if you walk another 260 yards. What will you find at the end?
Jenny:
Wakōshi Station.
Annie:
(chuckles) Easy!
Tom:
(laughs) Oh! Oh, now...
Jenny:
Come on!
Tom:
That is technically a correct answer. And if there were points, I might be forced to give you some points for a technically correct answer. But this is not that kind of show.
David:
The obvious sort of sequitur after gold and silver is bronze. But I'm imagining it's... that's not the answer. And if it is, it must be something particular that's bronze.
Jenny:
Did that particular town have three— Going back to the Olympics, did it have three Olympic winners who all were on the podium together, and then they put their... medals into the pavement in a cool walk of sports fame kind of way?
Tom:
The only words I can give you there are "walk of". Beyond that, it's not a sports question. We try not to have two sports questions in an episode.
Jenny:
Yeah, we've got four nerds here. We can't have more than one sports question. (giggles)
Annie:
So it's a walk of something?
Tom:
Yeah.
Jenny:
A walk of metals.
Annie:
A walk of shame.
David:
There was that dog that was incredibly loyal and came back to find its owner at the train station every day. And even after the owner passed away, it would still go to the station. And then they made a statue to commemorate it. Is it anything to do— It's a bronze statue of that dog, or something like that?
Jenny:
And a gold statue of the dog.
SFX:
(group laughing softly)
Tom:
A gold statue of the dog that did the same thing, but went a longer distance to do it.
SFX:
(group laughs)
Tom:
Gold, silver, bronze is not the sequence you're looking for here.
Jenny:
Is it connected to the lab at all? Whatever these things are that are on the pavement?
Tom:
Yeah, the RIKEN centre is a national centre for Japanese research.
Jenny:
Okay, so... They're researching gold, silver, and X? Is it another metal? Or is it toothbrushes?
SFX:
(David and Tom laugh)
Tom:
Tonight on Metal or Toothbrush!
SFX:
(Annie and Jenny laugh)
Tom:
Which would you like to clean your teeth with? Big dramatic music. "I might go for the metal, Chris."
David:
When— Thinking in Japanese terms as well, and this is me maybe being too much of a nerd, but Gold and Silver were two of the Pokémon games, and the third in the set was Crystal. That is probably not the answer, but I thought I may as well say it.
Tom:
Gold, silver, crystal is also not the sequence here, unfortunately. But you are right that this is a sequence with more things in it. So, you know, if it were Pokémon games, it would be Red, Blue, Yellow, and then I'd run out of Pokémon games in my head, but...
David:
Is it periodic table?
Jenny:
'90s kids.
David:
Where 260 yards between them, the things in between are the elements that are in between? I don't know my periodic table well enough, but...
Tom:
Yes, gold and silver are not next to each other on this walk. There are more than 100 different substances on this walk. You're right, it's the periodic table. But the question was, what will you find at the end? If you get all the way to the station?
David:
Hydrogen, the first one?
Tom:
Correct.
Jenny:
You can't put hydrogen on the pavement though, right?
David:
Just a big balloon of hydrogen.
Tom:
So, in the same way as... astronomical research centres will have a walk of planets, this has a walk of elements. The gold on the ground is not actual gold. It is a plaque representing gold. And right back at the research centre, there is Nihonium, which is the element that was discovered there in 2004.
Jenny:
Oh, cool!
Annie:
Is it one of the elements that is way down at the bottom, like, where it's like, they're always like, yeah, they have existed for, you know, .00-something seconds, so they're real.
Tom:
Yes, element 113.
It goes on a little bit further. It does go all the way up to 118, which is Oganesson, apparently. Don't know what that's named after. But yes, Nihonium, 113, was discovered there, and so there is a walk of elements all the way from the research centre to the train station.
Annie:
I always felt a little bit cheated in chemistry class when they made us talk about the ones at the bottom. Because I was like, some of these haven't even... Some of these, you guys are kind of giving yourself credit when you should— you deserve partial credit.
Tom:
Jenny, last guest question of the show is yours.
Jenny:
This question has been sent in by Matt Simpson.
There are around 56 'thankful villages' in the United Kingdom, because they are missing something. 14 of those are 'doubly thankful'. Only 12 villages in France are thankful. Why?
Let's do that again.
There are around 56 'thankful villages' in the United Kingdom, because they are missing something. 14 of those are 'doubly thankful'. Only 12 villages in France are thankful. Why?
Tom:
And I will sit out of this one, 'cause this is a weird, obscure British trivia fact I know.
David:
So what could a village not only miss... not have, but not have twice, because some of them were doubly thankful?
Jenny:
Mhm.
David:
And when I think village, I think... church, pub, post office, maybe. That's about it.
Jenny:
Yeah.
David:
But I don't think you'd be thankful if it was missing two pubs.
Jenny:
(laughs)
David:
(snickers)
Tom:
I mean they are these days though. There's not many of them left.
Annie:
I know this is not correct, but is it a war related thing? Like, some of them got spared in some war? I don't know.
Jenny:
You're not gonna see this on the audio podcast, but I did a little bit of an eyebrow twitch there.
David:
(laughs)
Annie:
Oh my goodness, okay. There's the Blitz.
Tom:
I love it when someone starts with, "This isn't gonna be right" and then basically nails the main part of the question.
Jenny:
(giggles)
David:
Yeah, is it...
Annie:
Was it the Norman Conquest? Are we going all the way back to 1066?
Jenny:
We're not going all the way back to 1066. So some villages are thankful, some are doubly thankful.
David:
Is this because if they're thankful, they didn't lose any of their young men... to one of the Wars, and if they're doubly, they didn't lose any of the young men to either of the World Wars?
Jenny:
That's it. Yeah, you got it. Nice one.
Annie:
David! (snaps fingers) That was—
Tom:
There's one other part of that question though.
Jenny:
What are they missing?
David:
A war memorial.
Jenny:
Yes, that's it, absolutely. So they didn't lose any servicemen during a World War. The ones who are doubly thankful did not lose any in World War I and World War II. So that's going to be a lot less likely in France. You can't be triply thankful, because there has been no World War III... yet.
David:
(giggles)
Tom:
Oh, we had to end that on a yet, didn't we?
Jenny:
So, in the 1930s, Arthur Mee was writing a guidebook to English counties, and he noticed that some villages didn't have a war memorial... because none of the locals had died during the First World War.
So most villages got a war memorial in the First World War. And so that was something that was really rare and notable that he sort of noticed about these villages. And he was the one who coined the term 'thankful villages'. So they come from Arthur Mee and his guidebook.
And then later on, that term got expanded to 'doubly thankful' once World War II rolled around.
Describing a thankful village in Yorkshire, Arthur Mee wrote, "30 men went from Catwick to the Great War, and 30 came back, though one left an arm behind".
Tom:
Oh, that's... Which country is it that accidentally invaded somewhere by crossing a border without realising it and then brought a friend back or something like that? There is definitely...
Jenny:
Oh, it's some super non-aggressive country, like...
Tom:
Yes.
Jenny:
One of the Scandinavians, right?
Annie:
I think it was more south. It was Liechtenstein or something.
Tom:
I feel like it's Liechtenstein had invaded somewhere and came back with one extra man because they found a friend.
David:
(laughs)
Jenny:
Yes. (laughs)
Tom:
Yeah, confirmation from our producer there. Yes, it was Liechtenstein. They accidentally crossed a border, made a friend, and came back. And it is a very successful invasion.
SFX:
(Jenny and David laugh)
Jenny:
Yes, there are 56 thankful villages in the United Kingdom that never lost a serviceman in World War I. 14 of them are doubly thankful because they also did not lose anybody in World War II. So they are missing a war memorial.
Tom:
Last order of business then. At the start of the show, I asked
why many Japanese people are familiar with a phrase that translates as: "raw wheat, raw rice, raw egg"?
Anyone want to take a guess at that?
Jenny:
This sounds to me like one of those... one of those T-shirts that's just random English words. So like someone put the ingredients list from a packet of noodles onto a T-shirt or something 'cause it looked cool. And it became a viral T-shirt, a fad T-shirt. That's gonna be my guess.
Tom:
It actually has nothing to do with cooking.
David:
What was it?
Jenny:
Darn.
David:
Raw wheat, raw rice, raw egg?
Tom:
Raw wheat, raw rice, raw egg.
David:
Is it like a weird translation where... where, when something goes from Japanese to English, it might be a word that... just about makes sense but isn't? Like Donkey Kong was meant to be like Silly Kong, but then we wouldn't necessarily think donkey, silly, but then you can, you know.
Tom:
That's sort of edging in the right direction. The English translation kind of has a similar issue to the original. I had to read that very carefully.
Annie:
Was this an iconic quote that someone said one time? "Ich bin ein Berliner" type thing?
Tom:
Not that kind of iconic. But there's certainly similar things in English.
Jenny:
Oh, is it a gaffe? Like, someone...
Tom:
What's a gaffe?
Jenny:
A gaffe is like... when a politician says something silly on camera.
Annie:
It's kind of an Ich bin ein Berliner situation, I would say. Also, sorry about the pronunciation. JFK had a bad pronunciation, and that's what I'm mimicking.
Tom:
I'm shortly about to have to pronounce this in Japanese. And I'm just going to apologise to the entire nation of Japan for that.
Jenny:
Is it a mnemonic for learning... something you would learn as a kid, like your alphabet, or...
Tom:
Not a mnemonic, but again, similar structures in English. This is, again, along the right lines. The Japanese is "nama mugi nama gome, nama tamago".
Annie:
That's catchy. Is it— Oh, it's probably not a song.
Tom:
Mm! Along the right lines. It's a miracle I said that right on the first take.
David:
Is it, like, if you say it slightly wrong, you actually wind up swearing, or saying something rude, or something like that?
Tom:
Which would be called...
Jenny:
A spoonerism?
David:
Innuendo, or I don't know.
Tom:
No, but I accidentally spoonerised 'fitted sheets' the other day, and it's gonna take me a while to...
Annie:
Oh, that's a really bad one. A minced oath? Like, you know, gosh, like saying darn.
Tom:
I'm going to try and say it three times fast. Nama mugi, nama gomi, nama tamago.
David:
Tongue twister.
Tom:
Nama mugi, nama— Tongue twister. Exactly right, David. It is a Japanese tongue twister.
Which does translate "raw wheat, raw rice, raw egg".
It's actually kind of difficult to say in English. In the same way that most of the English speaking world knows "she sells seashells on the seashore" and things like that, that is the Japanese equivalent.
Thank you very much to all our players. Where can people find you? What's going on in your lives?
We will start today with David.
David:
You can find me on YouTube at @DavidBennettPiano, talking about music theory and... music.
Tom:
Jenny.
Jenny:
You can find me at @JDraperLondon on YouTube and TikTok. I do London history.
Tom:
And Annie.
Annie:
You can find me as @DepthsOfWikipedia on most social media: Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, Mastodon.
Tom:
And if you want to know more about this show, you can find that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own idea for a question. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralcast.
With that, thank you very much to Annie Rauwerda.
Annie:
Thank you.
Tom:
J. Draper.
Jenny:
Thank you for having me.
Tom:
And David Bennett.
David:
Thank you very much, thanks for having me.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
| Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode |