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Episode 93: Political proofs
Published 19th July, 2024
Corry Will, Luke Cutforth and Jordan Harrod face questions about studio sackings, timely trademarks and complicated campaigns.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Juli, Alice, Laura Lévai. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Why did Sony file trademarks for a product that is predicted to come out in the year 2055?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
A broadcast can delight every friend, generating hilarious insights. Jokes keep listeners mesmerised, navigating odd, perplexing questions. Really surprising twists unfold. Very whimsical, xenial yackers zing.
Not the funniest intro I've ever done, but it gave the producer something to do with his Alphabetti Spaghetti.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh)
Tom:
Our first guest today is a returning player who... in a conversation just before we went on air, described herself as a person who is monetising every aspect of her life. PhD student in medical engineering, and YouTube and TikToker about artificial intelligence...
Jordan Harrod. How are you doing? How is your incredibly busy life?
Jordan:
It is good. I didn't say I was monetizing every single aspect of my life.
Tom:
Oh sorry, every hobby. You did say every hobby.
Jordan:
To be clear.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
There are still some things that I keep off the internet, thank you.
Tom:
Yeah, no, in hindsight, I should have definitely used the word 'hobby' in that introduction.
SFX:
(laughter continues)
Tom:
How are the hobbies going, Jordan? Because I'm not going to ask about the rest of it.
Jordan:
They are good. They are good.
The PhD takes up more time than it used to, but I feel like this podcast is also timestamping my PhD year over year at this point.
Tom:
It's been a year and a half since the first appearance now, and it's...
Jordan:
Yeah.
Tom:
AI has changed a lot in there, and you are working in medical engineering and AI. How much of your thesis have you had to rewrite now?
Jordan:
Well, not a ton. There— I haven't had to rewrite a lot because the methods that we're using aren't language model based. Anyone who's in that field, if you were doing your PhD, you're a little screwed right now.
The medical side is also moving quickly, and that's the thing that... has thrown some wrenches into some stuff, but... we're working through it, and we'll get there.
Luke:
I would've thought you wouldn't have to rewrite it because you'd just get ChatGPT to write it for you.
SFX:
(guys laugh sombrely)
Jordan:
I mean...
Luke:
Rewrite my PhD.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry giggle)
Jordan:
Somehow I do think my committee would flag that.
SFX:
(laughter continues)
Tom:
The committee are just using ChatGPT to summarise it anyway.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh harder)
Jordan:
Exactly.
Tom:
They're like, we're not reading this 120 page thing, it's fine.
Also joining us, and I presume not answering these questions through ChatGPT...
One half of the Sci Guys podcast, Luke Cutforth. How are you doing?
Luke:
Hello!
Tom:
We could in theory feed ChatGPT these questions and see if it can answer, but if I... if I even suggested doing that, I know 50 people are going to try it.
And telling someone what you did with ChatGPT is worse than telling them about your dreams. So just, if you do it, please don't tell us. We don't need to know.
Luke, how are you doing?
Luke:
I'm good. I have a very differently, incredibly busy life right now. I've just had a baby.
Tom:
Aw, congratulations.
Luke:
And actually, as we started recording, I realised I've still got my little shirt with a pouch in, on it...
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Luke:
Which my baby sits in. So, whoopsie, I should've done a costume change.
Tom:
I did a podcast with William Osman a while back. I was on his Safety Third.
And at one point, he got up because his baby was crying in the next room. And knowing that his partner was in the house, he got up, and I was like, "Oh, that's really nice." No, he just closes the door.
SFX:
(guests laugh uproariously)
Tom:
He just closed the door,
Luke:
so he can't hear the baby anymore. See, I won't even need to do that, Tom, because I have preemptively closed every door. So, we're fine.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Also joining us, the other half of the Sci Guys podcast, Corry Will, welcome back to the show.
Corry:
Well, thank you for having me.
I thought you were going to ask a question, so I could ask ChatGPT to answer it for me. But you didn't, so... I don't have anything to say right now. Thanks.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Tom:
Well, I was going to ask on the assumption that you are not about to go and deal with a screaming child in your space...
How's the Sci Guys podcast doing? What are you up to?
Corry:
Oh, it's fantastic. It's great. We're making episodes without Luke because he's decided to have a baby. And so the screaming child I'm left with is a podcast (cracks up) run by myself.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Corry:
Very equal, I think, very equal things.
Tom:
Well, thank you to all three of you for taking a lot of time from your very busy schedules right now to to come and play a silly game.
First, I must warn you that today's questions may mention may mention an aerodynamic wing that's fitted to the back of a sports car.
Sorry, I was asked to give a spoiler alert. With the...
SFX:
(guests groaning)
Tom:
With the tone well and truly set...
Corry:
Boo!
Jordan:
I'm leaving the podcast.
Tom:
Let's get on with question one.
This question's been sent in by Alice. Thank you very much.
On New Zealand's North Island, university debating societies gather annually for a competition dedicated to amateurs. The North Island Novice Tournament is commonly referred to as 'Thropy'. Why?
I'll give you that one more time.
On New Zealand's North Island, university debating societies gather annually for a competition dedicated to amateurs. The North Island Novice Tournament is commonly referred to as 'Thropy'. Why?
Luke:
Okay so the first thought that comes into my head to do with Thropy is like, is it to do with philanthropy?
Corry:
(chuckles)
Luke:
Like giving away something, like being super crazy rich, that kind of thing.
Corry:
I'm not— I feel like hearing the word Thropy in a New Zealand accent, in a Kiwi accent would help. So Luke, why don't you go ahead and...
SFX:
(Tom and Luke laugh)
Tom:
Oh, thank you for not involving me in on this one, Corry.
Corry:
(laughs) Oh, Tom, you're next.
Luke:
I'm not bringing out my Taika Waititi impression.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Luke:
I'll do it in my head though, that might help. Can we just use ChatGPT?
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Luke:
What's the definition of 'Thropy', ChatGPT?
SFX:
(Luke and Corry giggle)
Luke:
Okay, so Thropy gives me vibes of waves. It gives me, yeah, like choppy, almost. And also rich people giving away money.
So what's the combina— Where do those two things meet? And that's the answer.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh)
Jordan:
I was thinking thruple. So my mind's in a whole other place.
Tom:
(laughs)
Corry:
Maybe it's everything together. Maybe it's rich thruples. Oh, maybe it's rich people finding a novice to join their thruple. And give them money.
Luke:
Elon Musk.
Tom:
I mean, that sounds like a reality show.
Jordan:
Well, there is a reality show where you compete to— I don't remember what it's called, but it's the one where you compete to join a thruple with other people.
Luke:
Oh... yes! I've seen that actually.
Jordan:
Swell Entertainment did a video on it a month ago.
Corry:
I think we need a new kind of law, wherein, you know... anything you say could be a reality show, already is a reality show.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Yeah, exactly.
Corry:
There's Sod's Law, and then there's... I don't know any references to reality shows, but someone will come up with a funny punchline.
Tom:
I was thinking it was more like the right the police give you. Like, you have the right to remain silent, anything you do say may be turned into a reality show.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh)
Corry:
I think they are updating the Miranda rights in the US with that very soon, I think. That exact line, yeah.
Luke:
(snorts loudly) Sponsored by NBC Universal.
Corry:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Oh my god. The cops, sponsored by NBC Universal.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Luke:
Only in America.
Jordan:
Heyyy!
Corry:
Thropy, I feel like... I feel like Kiwis and Australians often have strange little words for things that don't make any sense, right?
Like, for example, like gobby is an Australian one, which makes a little bit of sense, but not enough. So maybe we should go down that sort of line.
Jordan:
Mm.
Corry:
Dear. So novices, I think, I feel like that's important. I feel like there are lots of... There are lots of strange events that happen around the world where people just go to have... fun... and do something kind of silly. So maybe it's something like that.
Tom:
It is very much fun and silly, you're right. But this is a name that came about by accident.
Corry:
Oh?
Jordan:
Mm.
Luke:
It's a mishearing of something else.
Corry:
Yeah, I was gonna say.
Luke:
Or a mispronunciation of something else.
Jordan:
Like 'trophy'?
Tom:
Like a trophy.
Corry:
Oh.
Luke:
Oh, okay. So, this is a typo rather than a mispronunciation or a mishearing. T-R— I'm looking at my keyboard. Trophy... thropy...
SFX:
(Tom and Jordan laugh)
Corry:
Oh, 'thropy'.
Tom:
You could write it down! You could have written it down. But instead, look at this keyboard!
Luke:
I was looking at which letters are near which other letters. (laughs)
Tom:
Thropy is spelt T-H-R-O-P-Y. So, Jordan, what do you reckon happened?
Jordan:
Oh, somebody's hand slipped? I don't know.
Corry:
Oh, so someone was writing about a trophy for some competition, and instead they wrote 'thropy'.
Luke:
They put the H in the wrong place.
Corry:
Yeah.
Luke:
The H from the end of 'Trophy' is at the start of 'Trophy' after the T.
Tom:
Yep, and when you say it was in the wrong place, where might that have been? To really stick in everyone's mind so it's called the Thropy from now on?
Luke:
Like a sign?
Corry:
Oh my god, it would've been advertising, right?
Tom:
Nope.
Corry:
No? Oh. On the trophy itself.
Tom:
On the trophy itself. Absolutely correct, yes.
SFX:
(guests laugh, clamour)
Jordan:
RIP.
Luke:
How do you get... it that wrong? That's a few letters away.
Tom:
So yes, this is Thropy, which invites young people with little experience in public speaking to have their first proper debate tournament experience. The students from Auckland, Waikato, and Wellington meet up.
And yes, it was misengraved on the trophy as 'Thropy', and... thus is known as that forevermore.
Jordan:
I mean, I appreciate the fact that it's designed to, you know... if you mess up, we already did, so like, it's fine.
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Tom:
Yeah. That's actually really nice.
Luke:
Do you know if that was hand-engraved? Or if it was a misentry in a computer system?
Because it reminds me of those Chinese signs where they've tried to translate the title of something, and then their shop is called "Translation Server Error".
Tom:
Yes.
Luke:
Which is just, you know... I understand completely how that's happened.
But if someone's gone and got their... hand... little thing in there, chisels it away at this trophy – sorry, this 'thropy' – How do they not spot the problem?
Tom:
My assumption would be it is a genuine typo or something like that. It's probably computer engraved these days. I feel like hand engraving costs a lot of money for a novice debating tournament. But this is...
Luke:
Right? (laughs)
Corry:
But then there are also misspelled tattoos, you know? So, you can spend a lot of time doing something, and either not notice, or not care that it's misspelled.
Tom:
There was an artist, maybe 10–15 years ago now, who put together a crowdfunding campaign for this poster of the Brooklyn Bridge, made out of typography. All letters, it looked beautiful, and so many people saw the proof. It went up on the fundraising page, it went— literally thousands of people had eyes on that, including all the buyers.
And it wasn't until he'd sent half them out that someone emailed and said... "You know, you've said 'Brookyln' here instead of Brooklyn. You've swapped the L and the Y around."
And it's just devastating for something that is about typography.
Jordan:
That's awkward.
Tom:
Cameron Moll. Thank you, producer David, for picking that out. It is one of those moments that is just, "Brookyln Bridge".
Luke:
Beautiful.
Tom:
Out to hundreds of people. But yes, this is the Thropy, which had a much, much better resolution, in that everyone just kind of rolled with it.
Thanks to Alice for sending in the question, which they came up with while attending the opening night of Thropy 2024.
SFX:
(guests aww)
Corry:
Well, I hope you won the Thropy.
SFX:
(Corry and Tom laugh)
Tom:
As usual, each of our guests has brought a question along with them.
Corry, we're going to start with you.
Corry:
In 1953, just before achieving worldwide fame, James Dean was hired by Goodson-Todman Productions. Although he only had to put in up to a minute of effort at a time, he was eventually sacked for being too good at his job. Why?
In 1953, just before achieving worldwide fame, James Dean was hired by Goodson-Todman Productions. Although he only had to put in up to a minute of effort at a time, he was eventually sacked for being too good at his job. Why?
Luke:
Okay, so, James Dean, actor... Short career, pretty short career. So I guess the world sort of fired him from his job, too, later on.
Tom:
Oh my— that's—
Corry:
Luke, Luke.
Jordan:
Well... (laughs)
Tom:
It's one way of putting it.
Corry:
Luke.
Tom:
That's not a great way of phrasing it, I'll be honest.
Luke:
Sorry. (laughs)
Tom:
Just for folks who don't know James Dean, who died in 1955, so only two years after, we're talking about, in an auto accident.
Luke:
My apologies.
SFX:
(Corry and Jordan crack up)
Luke:
Okay, so what could you— Why could you be fired for being too good at your job? So, I would guess maybe something along the lines of you've completed your job, or you've made yourself irrelevant by the creation of your job?
Such as all of AI, maybe, will do to all of us.
Corry:
(giggles)
Luke:
(chuckles) Did James Dean invent ChatGPT?
Jordan:
Oh my god.
Corry:
Dear lord. Is this episode sponsored by OpenAI?
Tom:
Really not.
Jordan:
Oh god.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry giggle)
Jordan:
That could be a whole other video. He was hired by a production company? Is that what it was?
Corry:
Yeah, so... Goodson-Todman Productions...
They hired some actors to do this work. And Luke, you're kind of on the right track there.
Luke:
The idea that he made himself irrelevant... He removed the need for his own job. Now, the one job I know a lot of actors have is, I have quite a few actor friends who all work for a thing which I call sexy waiters. Which is basically like...
SFX:
(Corry and Tom laugh)
Luke:
It's not called that, but it's like waiters, and they're all gorgeous. And like super rich people hire super gorgeous waiters to serve them because I guess they feel special because really gorgeous people are serving them.
Tom:
I thought you were going to say like doing commercials or voiceover work or something like that.
Corry:
(giggles)
Tom:
No, it's, it's waiting tables.
Luke:
Sexy waiters.
Tom:
Yeah.
Luke:
(snickers)
Corry:
(cackles) I can't say he was not a sexy waiter. That is that much for sure.
Jordan:
Okay.
Luke:
Well, if he was here today, he would be a sexy waiter. He'd be the sexiest waiter. Okay, so he made himself irrelevant from a job at a production company that also hired actors.
Tom:
And he only needed a minute of effort at a time.
Luke:
(gasps) Was he some kind of stunt double?
Corry:
Well, I wouldn't say stunt double, but you're kind of getting on the right track in that they hired actors, but not necessarily to act, if that makes sense.
Luke:
Sexy waiters?
Jordan:
Did he just have to stand there and look pretty? And he looked too pretty?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Luke:
Okay, not to act.
Corry:
Yeah, so not to act, but to do something more than just standing there and looking pretty.
Jordan:
Somewhere between acting and standing there and looking pretty, got it.
Luke:
Well, one job that I know, well, my wife did at one point, is standing in for other actors.
Like when they're lighting a scene, if they've got a famous actor, and then they can't afford to pay them all the time, you might stand in camera, you might even be acting against the other actor when that actor, the famous actor, needs to leave. So that would be hiring an actor.
Tom:
Yeah, the over-the-shoulder shot where you can't quite see the other person in focus, because that's not the same person. You don't need to get an expensive actor out of their trailer just to be someone to bounce off.
Corry:
I did that once in a TomSka video. I'm on both sides of the conversation, and no one is aware.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
But I get— you're kind of on the right track. But this is not something that would've been seen, you know? Not at all, not even the back of his shoulder would have been seen.
Luke:
Is it to do with filming or production of video in any way? Or is it—
Tom:
I was thinking more it might be radio.
If it's in the 1950s and it's a production company, it might be that he's doing some radio thing, but...
Corry:
So it's not radio, it's television, and it's a lot more obvious than you'd think, the sort of outcome of it. If that makes sense to you.
Jordan:
Were the actors appearing as self?
Corry:
So they all were appearing as themselves, but none of them would actually appear in the final product.
Jordan:
Was it animated?
Corry:
Oh, no, no, no, no. It wasn't animated. It was live action, but they were never going to be a part of the final product in any way.
Tom:
1953. Television couldn't be recorded. There was no videotape. You wanted to record it, you pointed a cinema camera at the screen and got the film developed.
So things like commercials had to be performed live, I think, or played in from— It wasn't— You would see people doing ad reads in the same way that YouTubers do these days. The television hosts would just take a break for the sponsorship.
So, is it like a model for something like that, or... Agh, you said he wasn't on screen.
Corry:
So this is more— Think more pre-production, rather than—
Luke:
Is it model— being a model for movements that are then used to sort of animate claymation? Or to draw a cartoon?
Corry:
So, not claymation. There's no animation involved in this at all.
Tom's on the right track. It is for television in the '50s. Probably some of the most... sort of iconic kinds of television you'd see in the '50s.
But he was not a part of the final product at all.
Luke:
Is this for run throughs?
Because I know in early television, it basically was shot like theatre. And it was shot live, and you didn't— You know, Tom was saying there was issues with recording early on. And so is it something like they were running through the entire show for a technical rehearsal? And then it would— They would sort of be replaced by the real actor later on.
And James Dean in some way made that process either unnecessary or a lot faster.
Corry:
You are so incredibly close with...
Luke:
(groans)
Corry:
You're so incredibly close. It is not acting. It's light entertainment. So, you're right in the sense of—
Luke:
Game shows.
Corry:
(clears throat)
Luke:
So game shows.
They're standing in, in a game show in a technical rehearsal of some kind before I'm guessing the public are brought in, or some contestant who's plucked from the real world, who isn't an actor, is brought in to then actually do the game show. But how does he make himself irrelevant?
Tom:
Hold on, one minute of effort.
Was this... I think it was known as The Gong Show or something like that, in the US?
Is it a talent contest or something like that, where you've got one minute to prove yourself, but it turns out he's James Dean, so...
He's just there for the rehearsal stand through, but like, oh, it's Ja— No, he's a very good actor, and he gets hired from that?
Luke:
Or is it something to do with... This isn't something from the '50s, but there was that game show, I think, Split or Steal, where basically it was the prisoner's dilemma, and you, at the end, you had to decide whether you were going to steal from the person opposite you.
Tom:
No, that's much later than the 1950s.
Luke:
No, no, I know, but I just mean, in terms of did— He had to do one minute of effort.
Did he in some way break the format entirely? The guy who went, "I'm gonna steal from you, just say split. I'll steal and I'll split with you later on, when we get out of the studio."
Tom:
Or the guy who beat Press Your Luck by working out what the light pattern was and buzzing in at the right time.
Luke:
Brilliant.
Corry:
I mean, you guys, you've basically got it, I would say.
Jordan:
Did he have to do something in 60 seconds, and was doing it too fast? Like, I don't know if it's a... Do you do stunts on TV in the '50s? I don't even know.
Corry:
I will give it to you, because...
SFX:
(Tom and Luke grimace)
Jordan:
Yeah.
Corry:
You guys actually have got it, I would say.
So there was a game show... Beat the Clock. That was their earliest show.
Tom:
Oh g—
Corry:
(laughs) Sorry, Tom! Oh gosh.
Yeah, so Goodson-Todman, they created, you know, a whole bunch of some of the longest running game shows: Family Feud, or Family Fortunes if you're on the other side of the Atlantic; Match Game, or Blankety Blank; What's my Line?; The Price is Right.
So they brought in James Dean to test these sorts of— to test this game show, Beat the Clock. You had to do a sort of a parlour game style trick in 60 seconds to kind of show off dexterity and sort of things like that. And he was just too good.
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Corry:
He was kind of breaking the scale a little bit. He just was not sort of representative of the average person, so they had to fire him for being too good at his job.
Luke:
But we got James Dean out of it, so it's fine.
Tom:
For about a year and a half, yeah.
Jordan:
Yeah, I was about to say.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Next one's from me, folks. Good luck with this.
In 1910, why did opportunistic entrepreneurs sell sugar pills, umbrellas, and gas masks to the public at vastly inflated prices?
I'll give you that one more time.
In 1910, why did opportunistic entrepreneurs sell sugar pills, umbrellas, and gas masks to the public at vastly inflated prices?
Jordan:
I was gonna say Spanish flu, but that's too early.
Luke:
It describes itself. Why did opportunistic entrepreneurs sell the public things they don't need? Because that's what opportunistic entrepreneurs do, Tom. End of question.
Tom:
It's the ChatGPT special episode.
Jordan:
Exactly.
Corry:
Hmm. I feel like there was some kind of scam going on.
Luke:
Yeah, why did scammers scam people? (laughs)
Corry:
This is immediately sort of bringing to mind... I cannot remember where this was or when, but probably America at some point in the past 270 years.
Jordan:
Okay.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Narrows it down. Narrows it down.
Corry:
I think they outlawed alcohol. It was during Prohibition. You could only get a drink with a meal. And so they would say "Here is your meal" and you just get a bunch of drinks with that. But you're not actually eating the meal.
This might've been a question on Lateral before actually.
Luke:
Here's your gas mask, and here's your absinthe.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Jordan:
Yeah.
Corry:
And then you hand back the sandwich. They give it to someone else.
Tom:
We've had the reconstituted brick of grape juice that says, "Absolutely do not let this ferment in a dark cupboard for a while." But we haven't had the... with the meal thing.
No, Prohibition in the US was just a complete ban on alcohol. You're thinking, like, about 2020 when shops started reopening in the UK after the first COVID wave. And everyone was like, "Yes, you can't go to the pub, but you can have a drink with a substantial meal."
Luke:
(snickers)
Corry:
(cracks up) I was only in the wrong country and around, you know, 100-odd years off.
Jordan:
Yeah.
Luke:
You can't have a party, but you can have a work event.
Corry:
(grimaces)
Jordan:
Exactly.
SFX:
(scattered chuckling)
Jordan:
Our thing was, you couldn't go to the bar, but you could take the drinks outside. And that was fine.
Corry:
None of the rules made any sense. But, why would you have umbrellas?
Luke:
Oh, umbrella, is that the last one? It was umbrellas, sugar pills, gas masks.
Tom:
Sugar pills, umbrellas, and gas masks, yes.
Luke:
Were these hiding something inside them?
Because that's what I was thinking when you were talking about Prohibition, Corry, was like, well, if it's illegal to sell alcohol, maybe you could sell an umbrella, but it's full of absinthe. And...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
The worst kind of umbrella.
Corry:
An umbrella of absinthe is a fun night and a trip to the hospital, I think.
Tom:
It's raining outside. I'll just put my umbrella up. (imitates splash) Awh! I'm covered in absinthe.
Corry:
Look, it happens more often than you'd think, okay?
Luke:
(chuckles)
Corry:
But yeah, okay, so I'm feeling... Sugar pill is triggering me. Not triggering me. It's reminding me of my degree, which is triggering me. But that makes me think of placebo.
So, I imagine that the people who were given the sugar pills didn't necessarily know that they were just sugar pills. Would that be accurate to say?
Tom:
Yes, certainly they were preying on the public's lack of scientific knowledge. To be fair, they didn't have to be sugar pills. They could have been basically anything.
Corry:
Is this to do with protection from some kind of man-made natural disaster? I know that sounds oxymoronic, but that is— It does make sense. Is this to protect themselves from acid rain or gas or something?
Jordan:
I was also thinking acid rain.
Corry:
Yeah, the sugar pills sort of protect you in some way, but they don't. And the umbrella is supposed to protect you from the sun's rays or something. And the gas mask protects you from dangerous gases.
Tom:
You are very, very close there, Corry.
The key in the question is 1910. This couldn't have happened the year before, couldn't have happened the year after.
I mean, it could have happened for some other thing, but this was very specifically 1910.
Jordan:
Okay, so something was actually happening. It's just that... the thing that was happening, they were still selling fake stuff for it.
Tom:
Yep, yep.
Jordan:
Okay. What happened in 1910?
Corry:
Well, from Sci Guys, I'm well aware that Luke and I both have no knowledge of history whatsoever.
Luke:
(stifles laugh)
Tom:
This is more of a science question than a history question.
Luke:
Oh?
Corry:
Ooh.
Jordan:
Ooh.
Corry:
Hmm. This was 1910, and the world knew it was coming.
Jordan:
So something in space.
Tom:
Mhm.
Corry:
Oh is it Halley's— Halley's Comet? Is it a comet or something?
Tom:
It is, spot on.
Corry:
Is that so it was to protect yourself against the... probably, what, is it cosmic rays or something from that?
Tom:
Yeah, what it says on my card is, to supposedly ward off the effects of Halley's Comet. A French astronomer had warned that the comet's tail contained poison gas that could penetrate the Earth's atmosphere and end all life as we know it.
Jordan:
Well...
Corry:
(laughs) Well, I'm glad that happened.
Luke:
And if you have this umbrella, you're gonna be perfectly safe.
Tom:
Well, also one scientist at London's Royal Observatory said the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans were going to swap basins, the South American rainforest would be swallowed up. So there were all sorts of doom predictions around the comet.
And thus... scammers were selling all sorts of doom-proof devices to help you get through the tribulation that would come with the comet.
Jordan:
And they just kept the gas mask for another eight years.
Corry:
Yes, that would have been it.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Luke:
Oh, thank goodness I got this gas mask!
Tom:
Jordan, over to you for the next one.
Jordan:
Alright, so my question is:
Which American company put up a billboard next to Santa Monica Boulevard in Los Angeles that featured a 90-word paragraph of text?
And I'll say it again.
Which American company put up a billboard next to Santa Monica Boulevard in Los Angeles that featured a 90-word paragraph of text?
Luke:
(sighs)
Corry:
(laughs) This is me fighting the eternal urge to just randomly blurt out a company like Coca-Cola.
Tom:
Right? Yeah.
Luke:
(chuckles)
Corry:
And no thought whatsoever. Coca-Cola, did they do it?
Jordan:
No.
Corry:
Thank god. (laughs)
Luke:
(chuckles snidely)
Corry:
Okay, so, if we want to win, and ignore the format of this podcast, let's all just start listing off the most famous companies.
Luke:
Ah.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
Gosh, this rings a bell. I feel like I've heard of something like this, you know. And there aren't many advertising stunts that happen in Los Angeles. So I'm sure the one that's in the back of my mind is definitely this one because there could not be any others. I'm certain of that.
Tom:
The billboard that always stuck with me was a little bit further north in the Bay area. Because, obviously, Silicon Valley, full tech thing.
And there was a company called Twilio, who did phone stuff. Basically, if you're receiving a two-factor text from someone, or getting text updates from a doctor or something, there's a fair chance that it's going through their systems.
And they just put up a billboard that just had their name and "Ask your developers." They didn't bother doing anything else because they had such a good reputation with everyone who designed that stuff. It was like, "Yep, just ask the developers about it."
And you could tell the company was going downhill, because a few years ago, they replaced it with this corporate buzzword-filled slogan that didn't really say anything about what they did. And it was this mark of like, oh, yeah, they've fallen. They used to be the developers' friend, and now they're just this really Silicon Valley company.
Luke:
I think this is the company that Elon Musk was complaining about when he bought Twitter, that was like, we spend low— X million pounds a year on literally text message authentication. But I think this was Twilio, yeah.
Tom:
It'll be one of two or three companies that handle that volume in the US, yeah.
Luke:
Okay, so we're on Lateral. Are we able to get this by thinking laterally, or do we literally just have to name a bunch of companies?
Corry:
Is that why it's called that?
Luke:
Yes.
Corry:
(imitates mind blow)
SFX:
(group laughing)
Luke:
You didn't even have to think laterally, Corry. That was literal.
SFX:
(laughter continues)
Corry:
I feel like those Americans who see QI pop up on TikTok and ask why the host is being so cruel with the questions, you know?
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
(snickers)
Corry:
Like, okay, lateral thinking.
Tom:
No, but I do like the idea that there is a mirror universe version of this podcast somewhere called 'Literal'.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh)
Tom:
Where it's just really, really dull questions.
Corry:
April 1st next year, you have to do this.
Jordan:
Yeees.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
Oh, goodness. Okay.
Tom:
I assume that if we identify the 90-word paragraph, which I assume is going to be something famous, then the company will just kind of be clear.
Luke:
Okay, anyone think of some famous paragraph? Is it like Genesis?
Corry:
(cackles)
Luke:
I think that's a bit more than a paragraph.
Jordan:
That is more than a paragraph.
Corry:
(wheezes)
Luke:
The Genesis of Genesis.
Jordan:
The words in the paragraph don't... Well it's not from any text that people would recognize.
Corry:
Are the words even being used as words, or are they being used to sort of represent something else? Like sort of typography art? Is that the vibe? Or a cipher of some kind.
Jordan:
You are supposed to read it.
Corry:
(giggles)
Luke:
You're supposed to read it.
Tom:
There's that service that summarises business books. Which I can't remember the name of, and...
Luke:
Oh, yes.
Tom:
They reached out to sponsor a video of mine once, and it didn't work out. So I'm not going to name them now.
Jordan:
There's three or four that do that now. But yes, it's not that one.
Tom:
Which is, to be fair, most business books are two good ideas filled with 500 pages to justify the cover price, so...
SFX:
(Luke and Corry giggle)
Jordan:
Yup.
Tom:
It's not unreasonable.
Luke:
Like Jordan Peterson's first book, which he literally wrote as a Quora answer, and then was like, "I'm gonna turn this into several books."
Corry:
Luke, we agreed to not talk about that.
Luke:
(wheezes)
Corry:
We agreed, okay? I'll get mad again. (giggles)
Tom:
I was once going to write a book on like, this is making stuff... about science communication on the internet. And then I wrote out everything I wanted to say, and it was a 20 minute video idea, so I just made that instead.
Corry:
(cackles)
Luke:
Great, yeah.
Tom:
Said, I don't want to pad this out.
So I was thinking, based on that, is it a company like that where the paragraph has so many words, that as you're driving past on Santa Monica Boulevard, you haven't got time to read it?
Or the opposite, you're stuck in traffic on Santa Monica Boulevard, so you do have time to read these 90 words.
Jordan:
Yes, that is the point that it's trying to get across.
Corry:
So then, would it be a company that wants to get you out of traffic, so they're advertising themselves as an alternative to driving?
Luke:
Like Uber, for example. Because you have a taxi lane, a cab lane.
Jordan:
It is, it is a rideshare company.
Corry:
Oh, so is it Lyft?
Jordan:
Yes.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
Sorry!
Luke:
The other one.
Jordan:
I was like, you said Uber, and I was like, well, okay, we're kind of there.
Corry:
Yes! Woo!
Luke:
Corry got it all of a sudden.
Corry:
This is why my maths teacher hated me for never doing my working. I would just write the answer.
Jordan:
Alright, so you guys got it. The company is Lyft.
The words were printed in a relatively small typeface on billboards next to what should have been a fast-moving road. The billboards were taken out by the ride sharing app Lyft.
The advert began: "Right now, you're supposed to be going pretty fast, which is why most billboards only have like three or four words. But this one has ninety, and the fact that you read this many of them in the middle of the road is a pretty good indication that something's gone wrong."
A similar ad would run in New York City. Brilliant.
Tom:
Thank you to Laura Lévai for this next question.
A Hungarian political party launched a campaign where volunteers publicly demonstrated a mathematical theorem around the streets of Budapest. Why?
I'll give you that one more time.
A Hungarian political party launched a campaign where volunteers publicly demonstrated a mathematical theorem around the streets of Budapest. Why?
Luke:
This has got to be game theory, surely.
Corry:
Mm.
Luke:
I don't know, just game theory is the most famous of these kind of things, and I suppose it might have some kind of relevance to elections in some way.
Corry:
That's— I'm thinking it's about education. But I like your idea more.
Luke:
Well, I think if you have some kind of theory, you can be like, it literally doesn't make mathematical sense to vote for my my opponent. Not that every single person voting would pay attention to that, but if you could demonstrate it physically, that would be really interesting.
Corry:
I'm almost worried we might be about to get this.
Tom:
You're nowhere near.
Luke:
(chuckles)
Corry:
Okay, fantastic, great.
Jordan:
Awesome, awesome, awesome.
Corry:
But I can say what my idea was. I thought it was going to be something about gerrymandering, you know.
Jordan:
Oh my god.
Corry:
Sort of... drawing really weird borders so that you can get voters split up or bound— bunched together. And you can win an election when you shouldn't be able to. Look at America. They do that. Sorry, Jordan.
SFX:
(Corry and Luke titter)
Jordan:
You don't have to apologize to me.
Corry:
Oh, gosh.
Jordan:
I can sleep with this. It's fine. (snickers)
Corry:
(laughs)
Tom:
(chuckles)
Corry:
(grimaces) So it's not, it's not gerrymandering. It's another kind of maths.
Tom:
It's not, but when you said drawing weird borders, that is, strangely, very close to what was actually going on here.
Corry:
I'm feeling like, if it's a political party... they're probably wanting to point out that the other party is making bad decisions. And so I'd imagine it's to do with the allocation of resources, or something? Is that closer or further?
Luke:
The border of your country?
Jordan:
Yeah, I was thinking borders.
Corry:
That's true, yeah.
Jordan:
I don't know where the math theorem comes in though.
Luke:
No.
Corry:
Pythagoras, triangles.
SFX:
(Luke and Jordan snicker)
Luke:
Okay, does anyone know anything about Hungarian politics? Or any of the issues facing Hungary in general?
Corry:
I did go to university with someone whose dad... I think designed the security system for Budapest. So, that might be useful.
Luke:
It— Is it?
Corry:
No, that's all I know.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Jordan:
Okay, cool. Cool, cool, cool.
Tom:
You're on the right lines with geometry and borders and that sort of thing. There is a reasonably famous theorem that is around how you draw that sort of thing.
Corry:
Oh, hold on. So this might actually be from a Tom Scott video.
Is it something to do with using triangles to draw... to draw borders?
Tom:
Oh! I mean, that's a video I did about ten years ago.
Corry:
(laughs, grimaces)
Tom:
It's not, but I appreciate you remembering the the idea of triangulation and the Ordnance Survey grid and everything like that from a video that's that old.
Luke:
Wow, fangirl!
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Corry:
Oh, I actually have to leave right now, I'm afraid. Sorry.
SFX:
(laughter intensifies)
Luke:
You gotta go watch another ten Tom Scott videos.
Corry:
Shhh! Stop, Luke!
SFX:
(Luke and Corry giggle)
Luke:
You gotta get your daily hit.
Corry:
Yeah, you know... Ever since they've not been coming out weekly, I've just been going back through again and again.
Tom:
(laughs)
Luke:
(snickers)
Corry:
No, okay, so... borders.
Jordan:
Borders. Borders within Hungary, or borders...
Tom:
I wouldn't get hung up on the word 'border' specifically, but in the idea of dividing something up, yeah. They actually just need some art materials for this.
Jordan:
Oh.
Corry:
Oh, art materials.
Tom:
Yeah, they were publicly demonstrating a mathematical theorem here.
Corry:
Is this a mathematical theorem that we would, all of us, likely know?
Tom:
I think given we have someone who's working on a PhD in...
Corry:
(giggles)
Jordan:
Okay.
Tom:
In medical engineering, and we have two people who run a science podcast, someone here is going to know a theorem that involves geometry and dividing up space.
Jordan:
Were— Wait. Were they drawing on the ground? With the art stuff?
Tom:
Yes.
Jordan:
Was this... god, what's it called? It's the four color thing.
Tom:
It's the four colour theorem. Yes, it is.
Corry:
Oh, so the four-colour theorem, if I'm remembering correctly... Is that the one wherein you only need... is it four colours to have— fill a space wherein no one colour is touching itself? That was a very poorly— poor way of explaining it.
Jordan:
No, I mean that was correct.
Corry:
Okay.
Jordan:
It's like, if you have— So no more than four colors are needed to color regions in a map so that... none of the regions have— none of the adjacent regions are the same color. So you only need four. You don't need more than four in order to make that work. Which is why they'd be drawing on the ground.
What I don't know is why... you would need to do a political demonstration around that?
Tom:
What natural borders and lines have they— Well, what sort of natural borders and lines have they found on the streets of Budapest that they want to draw attention to?
Luke:
Tectonic plates? (wheezes faintly)
Tom:
In Budapest, down the street?
Luke:
They've got to be somewhere, Tom.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
I think tectonic plates are a little bit larger than you're imagining.
Luke:
There's plates between them, I don't know.
Tom:
There are actually a couple of places where you can see the drift. There's a couple in California where the San Andreas Fault has actually moved a street.
And the residents are annoyed about tourists coming up and taking photos of the houses with the line through the garden.
Luke:
Brilliant.
SFX:
(scattered snickering)
Corry:
Well, you shouldn't have built your house on a fault.
Tom:
Y—You know whose fault it is as well. Whose fault it is.
Corry:
Sorry?
Tom:
You know whose fault it is.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry groan)
Luke:
(applauds) Yes.
Jordan:
God.
Luke:
So good.
Corry:
This is painful, and I love it. (laughs)
Luke:
I thoroughly approve.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Tom:
The best jokes are the ones where I have to explain them three times slowly, that's great.
Corry:
They're thinkers. So, natural borders. That makes me think sort of rivers, parks, things like that. But you're saying in the streets.
Tom:
(groans) I shouldn't have said natural. I shouldn't have said natural. Sort of natural.
Luke:
When you say you shouldn't have said natural, do you mean it's somewhere in the middle of man-made and natural? Or it's very much not natural?
Tom:
Yeah.
Luke:
Okay, somewhere in the middle.
Corry:
Oh, is it tiles? Like sort of stone slabs or something? No, why would they do that? That doesn't make sense.
Tom:
Oh, you're really close though. Why would they do that? Why would someone want to go, "Look at this on the ground"? Why would they be colouring all this in?
Corry:
Because there's not much to do in Budapest.
Luke:
(snorts)
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
Heyyy.
SFX:
(Luke and Corry giggle)
Luke:
Oh, Tom, we're letting you down here.
Tom:
Have a think what's going to be down in the urban environment, on the ground, on the... that people are going to be chalking in.
Corry:
Oh, is it potholes?
Tom:
That's close enough. Rather than just single potholes, what might you do to a larger area there?
Luke:
Like resurfacing?
Tom:
Yeah, I'll give you that, Luke.
Jordan:
Okay, yeah.
Tom:
Yeah. The pavements were so cracked and so broken down that you could use them as a demonstration. You could just colour in one bit red, one bit yellow, one bit green, one bit— all the way down. And officially, they were just doing public maths engagement, and they were absolutely not pointing out how badly the ruling party was dealing with the pavement.
Luke:
(giggles breathily)
Jordan:
Incidentally, this sucks.
Tom:
Yes, and they were promptly prosecuted for vandalism.
Luke:
I mean, in the UK, I dunno if you can leave this in, but in the UK, we have a guy... who I won't name, because it's a rude name, but it's a play on Banksy.
And what he does is he goes around drawing... male organs on potholes.
Tom:
Phalluses, go with the word phalluses! You're trying to dodge a lot of swearing this episode, but go with phalluses.
Luke:
Yeah, he goes along drawing phalluses on potholes in order to make the council fill them in because they want to get rid of the drawing of a phallus. And, you know, Hungary's got a different strategy. And, you know, I think they're both valid.
SFX:
(Corry and Luke giggle)
Tom:
Luke, over to you for the last guest question of the show.
Luke:
Okay, so this question was sent in by Julie.
New settlers to Germany might receive a gift of four plastic miniatures from neighbours. Although functionally useless, the colourful gift has a purpose beyond raising a smile. What is it?
I'll give you that again.
New settlers to Germany might receive a gift of four plastic miniatures from neighbours. Although they are functionally useless, the colourful gift has a purpose beyond raising a smile. What is the purpose?
Corry:
Well, I know that Germans are very practical. That feels like something racist, but it's positive.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Luke:
It's not racist if it's positive.
Jordan:
Nope, that's how that works.
Corry:
Luke, there's now a clip of you saying that on the internet, so...
SFX:
(Luke and Corry laugh)
Tom:
I just heard the sound of a bullet just whizzing past my ear there! Just not gonna speak up on that one. Feel like that's slightly outside the wheelhouse.
SFX:
(laughter trails off)
Corry:
Okay.
Luke:
(stifles giggle)
Corry:
I do know some German. Perhaps if I say some German words, that might help.
Tom:
Ja.
Jordan:
Go for it.
Corry:
Spiele, ja, nein.
Luke:
Mm.
Tom:
Although you said Spiele, and now I'm thinking games.
Corry:
Right?
Tom:
Because heaven knows there's enough board games coming out of Germany at the moment.
They've got the Spiel des Jahres prize? I mispronounced that, but board game of the year is a German award that's given out.
So, when you think plastic miniatures, I'm thinking little people that go on a board game or something like that.
Luke:
Like the little Monopoly pieces?
Tom:
Yeah, yeah.
Luke:
No.
Tom:
Oh, okay.
Corry:
Okay, so...
Luke:
Sorry, Tom!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Fine!
Luke:
Love the theory, but no.
Corry:
I do peruse TikTok from time to time. And, I've seen—
Tom:
(blurts laugh) Why? Why would you say that?
Jordan:
That means you spend a lot of time on TikTok. Nobody who's like...
SFX:
(Tom and Corry laugh)
Luke:
Don't worry, Corry, this is a safe space.
Tom:
Why did you say that in the manner of a member of the Victorian gentry? "I do peruse TikTok from time to time."
Luke:
Jacob Rees-Mogg entered the chat.
Tom:
I shouldn't mock someone who's come on the podcast just for how they say a thing, but I don't know if I've ever heard the word 'peruse' and 'TikTok' in the same sentence.
Corry:
Because I'm hoping that when this shows up on TikTok, I'll come across it.
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
Oh yeah.
Luke:
And you'll really be down with the kids when you say, "I do peruse."
Corry:
And I'll feel better about myself for scrolling endlessly on TikTok by thinking, "Ah, I'm simply perusing."
No, so... on TikTok, I have seen Germans talk about their culture. And some things that you might not expect to be sort of the norm there, not because you wouldn't expect it from Germans, just you wouldn't expect it from anywhere, so... I think they're quite strict about sort of noise and bins. Like you have to take your rubbish out at the right time. They're really, really strict about it or something along those lines.
Is it got anything to do with sort of... managing the social expectations in Germany that you wouldn't have elsewhere?
Luke:
You are getting incredibly close. One of the two things you just said is pretty much bang on.
Tom:
What were the two things you said, Corry? I was still knocking you for saying 'peruse'.
Corry:
(laughs) I said something about bins and... Goodness me, I have ADHD. I don't even know what the other thing I said was.
Luke:
Let's say you don't have to remember the other thing. You're on the right track.
Corry:
Oh, so it was bins!
SFX:
(both laugh)
Tom:
Is it something to remember which bin is which? Oh, a trash can, for those not in the UK. Which, or which day you put each one out?
Luke:
Yeah, I think I'm going to give you it for that first comment, Tom.
It is to help you remember which bin is which.
So the answer is German residents face fines of over 1,000 euros if they don't separate their waste into the correct different bins. These miniature bins are a representation of the larger bins. Blue for paper and cardboard, yellow or orange for plastic and metal, brown for compostable goods, and black for landfill.
So your neighbour is just being really nice and giving you a little thing to remember which bin is which, so you can avoid a fine.
Corry:
Do Germans not have printers or laminators?
Jordan:
I was about to say!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Corry:
Do they only have 3D printers? Is that it?
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Jordan:
I'd be like, that's really sweet, but also can't you just print it out and tape it up around your home? 'Cause I also do feel like I would need more than one. I would need that reminder posted in multiple places.
Corry:
Oh yeah.
Tom:
I mean, the thing is, if you do throw them out, you now know which bin to put them in.
Jordan:
Right.
SFX:
(Corry and Luke laugh)
Corry:
Maybe that's it. Maybe it's training, you know.
They've got a little glass model for your glass and so on. That does sound very German though, you know. It's very extra, but very polite.
Luke:
Every single activity in Germany has a small representation of the activity to remind you how to do that activity.
Corry:
(cackles)
Luke:
When you want to go to bed, you look at your tiny little bed with a little Lego man next to it getting into the bed. "Oh, that's how I do it!"
Corry:
Oh, ja!
Luke:
Ja, ja, ja!
Corry:
Ich schlafe, ja!
Luke:
Well done, you got that pretty much perfectly between you.
Corry:
Oh, goodness.
Tom:
Which just leaves us with the question from the start of the show:
Why did Sony file trademarks for a product that is predicted to come out in the year 2055?
Before I give the answer for the audience, anyone want to take a quick shot at that?
Luke:
PlayStation 10?
Tom:
Yes, it is the PlayStation 10.
Luke:
Yes!
Jordan:
Hey!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Bulldozed it. Not only is it the correct product. It's the correct number. That is there to protect
Luke:
Hell yes! (laughs)
Tom:
...PlayStation 10.
They trademarked 6, 7, 8, 9, all the way up to 10. And if you draw a line of how often those come out, you end up with PlayStation 10 in about 2055.
Luke:
It's very much the Moore's Law of the gaming industry.
Corry:
(laughs)
SFX:
(Luke and Jordan snicker)
Tom:
With that, thank you— I think Moore's Law is the Moore's Law of... (laughs)
SFX:
(group laughing)
Luke:
(claps)
Tom:
...the gaming industry. Sorry, apparently it's "be sassy to the guests we've invited" day from me.
Luke:
I'm fine with it.
Tom:
Sorry, folks. Jordan, I'll have a line for you when we come back for the second of these episodes.
Jordan:
I do feel left out, so...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Well, we'll start with you then. Where can people find you? What's going on in your life?
Jordan:
You can find me on the interwebs:
on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram. Probably not on Twitter, but you know, sometimes.
And I am still working on my PhD, but probably going back to making longer video essay-ey content about the state of AI in the world and why people who run massive AI companies make the decisions that they do.
Tom:
Corry, how about you? What's going on with you?
Corry:
Well, you can find me at @NotCorry everywhere on the internet. And most of what I'm doing right now is Sci Guys with Luke. You can find that, Sci Guys, everywhere on the internet.
Tom:
And Luke, plug Sci Guys!
Luke:
You can find me at @LukeCutforth everywhere, and you can also check out Corry and I's science podcast, Sci Guys, everywhere where you get your podcasts. Such as this podcast.
Tom:
And if you want to find out more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and you can find video highlights regularly at youtube.com/lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Luke Cutforth.
Luke:
Thank you.
Tom:
Corry Will.
Corry:
Thank you.
Tom:
And Jordan Harrod.
Jordan:
Thanks.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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