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Episode 94: The empty pizza box
Published 26th July, 2024
Hank Green, Ceri Riley and Daniel Peake face questions about practical pencils, pyromaniac profiteers and prodigious protoplasm.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes'), ELFL ('Neon Raceway') courtesy of epidemicsound.com. ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Harry, Alex Rinehart, Tom & Gemma, Lembit, Shiloh. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
What is the largest biological cell that most people will see on a regular basis?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
SFX:
♫ (soft lounge pop)
Tom:
Welcome to PodPhone. Please listen to the following options.
For the Wacky Wombat podcast, press 1.
For That's My Pickle, press 2.
For Lateral, press 3. For—
SFX:
(dial beep)
Tom:
You have selected 3.
Please enter the desired programme length, followed by the hash key.
SFX:
(three dial beeps)
Tom:
You have entered 40 years. Is this correct?
SFX:
(rapid dial beeping)
Tom:
40 minutes selected.
For weird guests, press 1.
For clever guests, press 2. For hairy gues—
SFX:
(dial beep)
Tom:
You have selected 2.
SFX:
(music fades out)
Tom:
And the first of those guests is:
from the SciShow Tangents podcast and many other things beside, please welcome Hank Green!
Hank:
Hello!
Tom:
Welcome to your first play on Lateral.
How are you doing today? What else is going on in your world at the moment?
Because I said SciShow Tangents. There's a lot!
Hank:
Yeah, there's plenty. There's always plenty.
I actually right now I'm doing a bunch of research on... I don't know if you've heard of the Newgate jail experiments where they— the first people to get smallpox vaccines. So I've got deep into the weeds on these six people who were the first people to get inoculate— not a vaccine, but to get very elated with smallpox. And they're a bunch of weirdos. They're all mostly teenagers. There's... I think there was... Well, I think there's seven of them. There's—
But one of them turned out that he had had smallpox before and he cheated his way to the trial because he was— you got a pardon in exchange for doing this medical experiment on you.
But that's one of the things. And I'm doing research on that because I'm working on a book about cancer. And I also wanted to, since one of the big things about cancer is, being involved in medical trials, I went into the history of medical trials.
So that's one of the things that's going on in my life right now.
Tom:
I love that I asked that question knowing I was probably going to get something like that back. Thank you so much, Hank. That is entirely on-brand in the best way.
Also joining us today from the SciShow Tangents podcast as well, Ceri Riley!
Ceri:
Hello!
Tom:
Thank you so much for being part of all this.
This is obviously a slightly different format to what you normally play on Tangents. How are you feeling about lateral thinking questions?
Ceri:
You know, I am usually a, you know it or you don't. It has been a minute since I've had the path of—
I'm really good at researching. Let's say that. I'm really, really good at researching. We'll see how I am when I have to come up with the things from my own brain.
Hank:
I'm extremely nervous. I'm so nervous. (wheezes)
Ceri:
Yeah.
Tom:
Yep. I mean—
Ceri:
My skill is in Googling. Not lateral thinking. (laughs)
Tom:
And our third player today, returning to the show, we have puzzle and quiz streamer and professional puzzle and quiz designer and writer:
Daniel Peake, welcome back.
Daniel:
Hey, I— Tom, think that there's been a mistake. I was booked for That's My Pickle.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Daniel:
And let's just say I've put food dye on, and it's been a morning.
Tom:
Thank you so, so much for coming back and being part of this, because... I know from a question writer's perspective, suddenly being on the answering side can be scary.
Daniel:
Oh, it's terrifying. Setting questions is great, you have the internet, and answering them is a whole new ballfield.
Hank:
I mean, I watch this podcast, and I'm like, you ask the questions, and I'm like blank. I'm blank, I'm blank.
SFX:
(Tom and Ceri laugh)
Hank:
And now I'm— now I've signed up to do it, which is a wild choice.
Daniel:
Some would say foolish.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Hank:
Tom.
Tom:
The best thing I can say is, just say whatever comes to mind. Sometimes, the ridiculous answer is the right one.
Daniel:
Pickles.
Hank:
(wheezes)
Tom:
Good luck to all three of you.
There is no phone-a-friend option on this show, so put your mobiles on silent. But not your mouth, otherwise it's going to be a very long and dull show.
SFX:
(Hank and Ceri snicker)
Tom:
Here is question one.
This question was sent in by Tom and Gemma. Thank you both very much.
From the 26th of May 1951 to the 26th of September 1952, all 54 individuals were alive at the same time. Who are they?
I'll give you that one more time.
From the 26th of May 1951 to the 26th of September 1952, all 54 individuals were alive at the same time. Who are they?
Hank:
Okay. There's a reason why it's weird.
So, so often times, 56 individuals are alive at the same time. One might say... for the whole time... that there's been life.
Tom:
(laughs)
Hank:
So there's a reason why it's weird. That's what we're starting with.
Daniel:
Did Snow White have some dwarves that we didn't know about?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Daniel:
And only seven made it to the movie.
Tom:
The year is pretty much bang on there, I think. Early '50s, well done.
Daniel:
(laughs)
Hank:
But does that have anything to do with the 56 individuals? Is it a Disney thing?
Tom:
(laughs) 54. Just to be clear, all 54.
Daniel:
54.
Hank:
All 54. Sorry, thank you.
Ceri:
All 54.
Tom:
That doesn't make much of a difference, I'll tell you, but...
Hank:
So, so can I ask a question? Did somebody die on the last day of this?
Tom:
Yes.
Ceri:
That's what I imagine. Because that's the only way you can have 54 things alive at the same time, is that if they're all very young. They were all...
Hank:
Or there's a bunch that had just gotten born. And then there was a bunch that died, and there was an overlap.
Ceri:
Mmm, so it was like the oldest one... died on the 26th of September.
Hank:
But the youngest one was born on the whatever— on the 26th of May.
Tom:
Yes.
Ceri:
May 1951.
Daniel:
So we're talking about a year and a half, aren't we, in terms of lifespan?
Tom:
Yeah.
Daniel:
I think.
Hank:
I think some of them were old at the start of the period.
Daniel:
Okay.
Hank:
And died. So there was some that were very young, and some that were very old.
Tom:
Yeah, absolutely spot on. 54 individuals... only overlapped for that year and a half. You're absolutely right.
Hank:
Right. There's an overlap.
Daniel:
It's pre '60s. It's not anything to do with astronauts on the moon.
Hank:
I was thinking, yeah, something about wars.
So it's like people who had fought in the Civil War and people who were going to fight in the... Gulf War or something. That's silly, but...
Daniel:
So let's say it's humans. Lifespan of say about 80 years.
If someone was passing away in the 1950s, then they would be born, what, 1870s? Something like that?
Hank:
Mhm, so there is Civil War...ish. Is it having to do with wars? Tom, can I ask that?
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Tom:
Not specifically.
Hank:
Okay.
Tom:
Most of the 54 on here are household names.
Hank:
Oh, that's very helpful.
Daniel:
Is it? Is it?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Daniel:
I think we feel— I feel like we're talking actors or actresses. It feels Oscar-y to me, and I don't know why.
Hank:
Yeah, yeah. I had the Oscars popped into my head too.
Ceri:
I was thinking fast food magnates or something like that. (laughs) But, you know...
Hank:
(giggles)
Ceri:
Actors make much more sense.
Hank:
There's 54 of them.
Ceri:
Famous people. Or people who share some sort of... yeah, career or familial connection.
Daniel:
Ooh, a family, that's not bad.
Ceri:
This could be the end of an era if... someone chose not to have any more children beyond this person.
Tom:
They certainly share an attribute. But it's not a familial connection.
They are all on a particular list. And it's a list that a nerd like me and possibly some other people who are on this podcast as well will know by heart.
Hank:
Oh, a list that you will know by heart. Is it something to do with— Are they leaders of countries?
Tom:
Well, the 1952 event, you were right, it was a death. It was the death of George Santayana.
Hank:
You said they were household names. What household, Tom?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Daniel:
Not this household!
Ceri:
Not this household.
Hank:
It's Tom's household. The nerdiest household.
Tom:
Alright, fine, the 1951 event, then. The birth of NASA astronaut Sally Ride.
Hank:
Well, what list would they be? The list of people who got the prize. But that's weird to quantify it as a list.
Tom:
Yeah, you are going to hate this answer, 'cause you're right.
SFX:
(guests laugh uproariously)
Tom:
It's, what is the list? And it is a list with a load of people and other things. The sweet spot for it is the 1950s, for the people who are alive.
Hank:
There's other things besides people on the list?
Tom:
There's other things besides people on the list.
Ceri:
They are...
Hank:
Oh, that's a weird list.
Ceri:
Hank, what are things you know about Sally Ride?
Hank:
I think Sally Ride was the first woman in space, but I might be wrong about that. She was a woman in space.
Ceri:
Is it a list of the first things in space? Like, first dog, first frog, first...
Hank:
Oh, the list of first people in space!
Tom:
You all know some of this list. I promise you, you all know some of this list. And why might a list be easy to remember?
Daniel:
Learning the alphabet. Is it a mnemonic?
Ceri:
I feel like a mnemonic, yeah.
Daniel:
For, hang on, what have there been 50... There have been fif... No, there haven't been 54 presidents.
Tom:
It's not a mnemonic, but it's easy to remember.
Hank:
Santayana.
Tom:
There's a very small part of the audience just screaming right now.
Ceri:
Yeah.
Hank:
(laughs heartily)
Daniel:
George.
Ceri:
This is my great fear.
Daniel:
Sally, George.
SFX:
(Hank and Ceri laugh)
Daniel:
(sighs) I need another thing from the list, I think.
Tom:
Alright, Harry Truman.
Hank:
Harry Truman's on the list?
Ceri:
I don't know anything about any of these people.
Tom:
Mmm, Doris Day?
Daniel:
Doris Day... won best... best song for Que Sera, Sera.
Tom:
Harry Truman, Doris Day, Johnny Ray.
Hank:
Oh, they're people in We Didn't Start the Fire!
Daniel:
(shouts, huffs)
Tom:
(laughs uproariously)
Ceri:
(tsk)
Daniel:
Ohh.
Ceri:
I would never have gotten there.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Daniel:
It's the song We Didn't—
Hank:
Ceri famously does not know any popular music. She was raised without popular music in her house.
Tom:
Okay, two people here will definitely know this song. Apologies.
Ceri:
(giggles)
Hank:
Santayana, good— Yeah, Santayana.
Tom:
Yes.
Hank:
Yeah, yeah.
Tom:
The lines in the song include "Santayana, goodbye". There are 54 individuals name checked in Billy Joel's We Didn't Start the Fire, (laughs) and that was—
Daniel:
And this is when they were still alive, when everyone here—
Hank:
And that's where all of them were alive! That's wild that it was just a year and a half!
Tom:
So, why is the 1950s the sweet spot? Why is it just there?
Daniel:
So, the song would've been about 1980 or something like that, late '70s?
Tom:
1989, yeah.
Daniel:
So, people—
Hank:
Was this when Billy Joel was a child?
Tom:
Yeah.
Daniel:
Well, people will have had to been famous enough for them to put in the song, so they'll... So, therefore, people will've been born since about 1950.
So, they need— That's where the overlap happens. You need people from the 1950s to have already been born.
Tom:
Yeah, the song is in chronological order. Each line is one year later, and then it sort of speeds up at the end and just goes through the '80s very quickly.
Daniel:
Ah, didn't know that.
Hank:
It does really, it does, it does. It very much is like he started writing, and then he ran out of paper and he was like, "I guess I'll just do the '80s real fast!"
Tom:
(laughs)
Hank:
And it's like, you really had a lot of focus there. It was like, a lot happened.
Tom:
Yeah.
Hank:
In a fairly narrow, yeah. You really shoved 'em into the beginning.
Tom:
The story goes that he overheard someone complaining that his generation had no history, and so he just wrote the song with all the history he could in it.
Hank:
Ah.
Tom:
There is a Fall Out Boy cover from a couple of years ago for kind of our age group, and it is awful. And it's also...
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
not in chronological order, which is unforgivable.
Hank:
Ooh, Fall Out Boy, you could do better.
Tom:
So yes, there were 18 months, more or less, when all the people name checked in We Didn't Start the Fire were alive.
Hank:
That's great, but not all of the things. Because some of the things...
Tom:
Oh, well, we didn't include—
Hank:
...had never been alive.
Tom:
Yeah, we didn't include Edsel, which was a type of car that was named after Henry Ford's son, 'cause he was talking about the car.
And 'new queen' did not specifically name check Elizabeth II, but she was alive during that period.
Thank you, by the way. This is Ben Zotto, who did an analysis and posted it online...
Hank:
Fantastic.
Tom:
...for inspiring that question.
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. Dan, we're going to start with you.
Daniel:
Okey-doke.
This question has been sent in by Alex Rinehart. So thank you very much, Alex.
In 2020, why did some US fast food companies start to deliver an empty pizza box to their customers?
In 2020, why did some US fast food companies start to deliver an empty pizza box to their customers?
Hank:
Did the people— Did the people ask for an empty pizza box?
Daniel:
I'm— I am not gonna say.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Hank:
I mean, I remember there was a period— So there's none pizza with left beef. Are we all aware of none pizza with left beef?
Tom:
Oh crikey.
Daniel:
Absolute classic.
Tom:
I haven't thought of that in ages.
Hank:
Yeah.
Tom:
This is the pizza that got ordered online without cheese and sauce, and just...
Hank:
Yeah.
Tom:
Yeah.
Hank:
Yeah, so you could go on Domino's website, or Pizza Hut, or whatever it was, and you could choose what you wanted on your pizza. So instead of having to talk to a person and order something outlandish, you just did it with a computer.
But you could select no cheese, no sauce... and... and nothing. But then the person ordered a 'none' pizza, with just bread, but with beef on the left.
(laughs) And it arrived!
Tom:
I have once in my life accidentally ordered a none pizza with stuff on it, because I screwed up while ordering online and somehow managed to uncheck both the cheese and sauce options. Completely by accident, didn't realise it.
The pizza gets delivered, and I'm like, "Well, this is terrible and wrong". And then I just have this moment of going, "Did I do this? Did I— Was this my fault?"
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
And I check the order email, and I'm like, "Oh no, that's entirely on me. They just think I'm an idiot. Okay, that's..."
Hank:
Is the answer that Tom is just bad at this?
Tom:
I would like to order pizza with no bread. It's just...
Daniel:
Just the toppings.
Tom:
Just the toppings.
Daniel:
What I want to know with the none pizza with left beef is how did they ensure it was on the left? Because is it going to be your left, or is it going to be my left?
Hank:
Here's the thing, they put it on their left, and then as it traveled to them, it just got scattered all over the inside of the box.
Daniel:
I've got a pizza with right beef! I asked for left!
SFX:
(group trails off laughter)
Daniel:
Anyway, no, it's nothing to do with that.
Hank:
Oh, is it nothing to do with that?
Daniel:
Nothing to do with that.
Tom:
My assumption would be that any question that starts in 2020, the answer is COVID.
Hank:
Uh-huh.
Tom:
We're not sure why.
Hank:
Right.
Tom:
But the answer is probably to do with COVID or quarantine.
Daniel:
That's gonna play... That's gonna play into this question, yes.
Hank:
So you get a pizza box so that you can get food. But you can eat with your family, but then the pizza box will sit between you so that your spit particles do not reach them.
Ceri:
An open pizza box is the correct social distancing.
Daniel:
I just do that with my family anyway. I can't stand to be near them.
SFX:
(others chuckling)
Hank:
Yeah, so you can just hit them when they get too close.
Daniel:
The family or the pizza boxes?
Hank:
The family with the pizza boxes.
Daniel:
Right, okay, good. Just checking.
Hank:
Yeah.
Tom:
It's just an N99-rated pizza box. It just stops anything going through. Your mask is just a piece of cardboard that gloms to your face.
Hank:
You will suffocate if you put it on too...
Daniel:
Pizza-scented masks. Why wasn't— Why wasn't that a thing? Oh, I'd have loved that. Ooh, I'll have a barbecue pizza scented mask today.
Hank:
Let's not do it.
Ceri:
I was thinking more like Nintendo Labo or Labo and... or Google Cardboard. They send you a box, and you can actually turn your pizza box into something fun and wholesome for your family to do. Again, with your family!
Hank:
Yeah, it's like a Happy Meal toy.
Ceri:
Yeah, you run out of things to do, and so you can convert your pizza box into a little robot head that you can put over your child so that they can yell inside that instead of running around your house.
Daniel:
So the US was not the only country to do this. Many other countries also did this.
Hank:
Many countries, many countries.
And it wasn't an accident. It was intentional. And it was happening all over the place.
And there were empty pizza boxes at fast food— He doesn't say pizza restaurants. Why do they have pizza boxes?!
Daniel:
It's specifically, specifically delivery.
Hank:
And they're empty.
Daniel:
They are empty. And it is deliberate.
Hank:
And it's something to do with COVID.
Ceri:
Yeah, the benefits of having an empty pizza box, as opposed to a full pizza box, is you don't have food residue inside it. So that you've got a fresh surface if you want to put food in it, or put something else that has non-food in it.
Daniel:
You're on the right, and you're starting to get there.
Ceri:
Okay.
Daniel:
What happens when you get a delivery?
Tom:
Is this like a shield that the delivery driver puts up to make sure they can't...
Daniel:
(cackles)
Hank:
(wheezes)
Daniel:
I'm gonna say you're 90 degrees out, Tom.
Hank:
Oh, interesting, 90 degrees. That to me means exactly in the wrong direction.
Ceri:
Is it to shield... Is it to insulate food from itself? Like hot food versus cold food? You put a pizza barrier, and then you have that air insulator?
Daniel:
It's protecting it from something.
Ceri:
It's protecting it from the sample of COVID virus.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Tom:
Wait, is it to put the money in? So you can... So that the driver can give you the box, you put the money in the box, driver... But you don't need a pizza box for that.
Daniel:
Very close. Close, but not quite.
So, okay, the pizza person turns up. You're at your front door. You've got to get the pizza somehow.
But what can't happen during the COVID times?
Hank:
You can't tou— The driver can't touch the pizza box?
Daniel:
You can't get too close together.
Tom:
You can't hand over the pizza.
Daniel:
He can't directly. He or she can't directly hand you the pizza because they're too close. So what do they do with the pizza in that time?
Hank:
They throw it like a frisbee.
Daniel:
(laughs) It's like Breaking Bad. Throw it onto the roof.
Hank:
(laughs heartily)
Ceri:
Don't you just set it on your porch?
Daniel:
Well, yes. That is exactly what they do. But why might you then get an extra box with it?
Hank:
Because it's wet out there.
Daniel:
Or the ground might be cold.
Tom:
It's just insulation. It's just insulation so the driver can put the pizza box down...
Hank:
Oh!
Tom:
and put whatever your takeaway is on top of it, and it just gives a little bit of insulation to provide...
Hank:
So that my burger doesn't get too cold.
Daniel:
It is exactly that. It is to stop your pizza box from going on the ground, which might be wet or dirty or cold.
Ceri:
As a delivery connoisseur, no one has ever insulated my food from the ground.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Hank:
No, me neither.
Ceri:
I get cold, just, I gotta rush down there in my little sock feet, pick up my meal before it's too cold.
Daniel:
I guess if they didn't want to use a pizza box, I guess they could have used those little mouse tables if they wanted. I call them little mouse tables because I imagine, you know, the little things that are meant to just stop the box from hitting the pizza.
But I call them little mouse tables because it looks like a little mouse would have a dinner around it.
Tom:
Next question was sent in by Lembit. Thank you very much.
In 1645, the state of Virginia passed a law to discourage owners from burning down their own plantation buildings. Why was this necessary, and why were estimators employed to award alternative compensation?
I'll say that again.
In 1645, the state of Virginia passed a law to discourage owners from burning down their own plantation buildings. Why was this necessary, and why were estimators employed to award alternative compensation?
Hank:
Virginia, in the 1600s. They're growing tobacco and cotton. So maybe they were burning them down just to get high.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Daniel:
Oh, give me a good whiff. (inhales deeply)
Hank:
Yeah, this is really hot boxed, this place.
Daniel:
(exhales euphorically)
Hank:
(giggles)
Daniel:
There was that lovely BBC clip of a presenter... that there was a pile of drugs that had been confiscated, and they decided to burn it to dispose of the drugs. And he got a contact high. And he's trying to present to camera, and he's just standing there giggling. It's very funny.
Hank:
(wheezes, cackles)
Daniel:
Poor, poor presenter.
Hank:
Yeah, I could see that happening.
Daniel:
I think there are more efficient ways, but so it's probably not allowed.
Hank:
I agree with you.
Ceri:
The not-lateral thinking is insurance fraud or something, right? Like, oh no! And, and maybe this is thinking the worst of slave owners in Virginia on the plantations of like, "Oh no, someone, they burnt it down. So give me..."
Hank:
And there's some kind of crop insurance program that exists.
Tom:
Yeah, I should flag that this question has nothing to do with slavery.
This is not the sort of podcast that would ask that question, but I feel it's just necessary to pop that one in.
Hank:
Yeah.
Tom:
In this case... not insurance fraud. But you're right, there's—
Hank:
Fraud?
Tom:
There's something going on there.
Hank:
Yeah, I mean, it must be at least a little bit fraud-y. Fraud adjacent.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Hank:
if you're burning down something that you spent a lot of money for. Or at least resources for.
Tom:
It's, oddly, no. In this case, I don't think I could possibly call this fraud. They're certainly there for a quick buck, and they're certainly taking the lazy and cheap and quick option, but I wouldn't call this insurance fraud.
Hank:
Oh maybe they were switching from one kind of crop to another, and they just didn't need that infrastructure anymore? And, so they were like, get rid of the— I don't— The fast way to get rid of this building is to just build a little fire next to it.
Daniel:
What year was this, Tom?
Tom:
1645.
Daniel:
Okay, so it is after the Gunpowder Plot. So it could be the Guy Fawkes Appreciation Society really trying to get their message about.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Daniel:
Spread the word.
Hank:
It's just, Virginia's really... really where the message needs to be heard.
Daniel:
It was the natural next destination.
Hank:
Yeah.
Daniel:
This is where Tom says, "You're surprisingly close!"
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom:
The advice is always to say the silly thing. And unfortunately in this case, it is not the silly thing.
Hank:
It is not the silliest thing.
Tom:
Have a think about those buildings. What kind of qualities would they have?
Daniel:
They're usually multi-storey, big barns, aren't they? Sort of a couple of storeys high, wooden.
Hank:
Oh yeah, just a big, big wooden barn.
Tom:
Big, big wooden barn, yeah.
Daniel:
It feels farmy.
Tom:
It's absolutely farmy. The compensation is more a thank you for not burning your barns down. It was illegal to burn them down. But...
Hank:
Yeah.
Tom:
As a trade off for not burning them down, they got something back.
Ceri:
My thought is, what if you burn down the barn... and it is made of wood, but there is other stuff that the barn is made of, and you potentially want to extract that from.
So let's say the barn is wood. You have metal nails, and the iron is really valuable, or something.
And so the easiest way is to burn it down, grab your metal, and then instead they're like, "Here, have a check, you can buy new metal. Please do not burn down your barn."
Tom:
You've hit almost every single point perfectly.
SFX:
(guests cheering)
Tom:
It was the iron nails.
The plantation buildings were built so cheaply and so quickly, so when they moved on to literal pastures new, it was really tempting to just burn them down, easily reclaim the nails, and move on. Because iron nails were really expensive.
Hank:
Right, and pulling them out one by one is no fun.
Tom:
Yeah.
Ceri:
It's a chore.
Tom:
So yeah, the law in 1645 says, "It shall not be lawful for any person on deserting his plantation to burn any necessary housing, but shall receive so many nails as may be computed by two indifferent men."
SFX:
(Hank and Ceri laugh)
Ceri:
Wow, to be an indifferent man!
Hank:
Two indifferent men. That's a great name for a podcast.
Tom:
(laughs uproariously)
Ceri:
Yeah. (laughs)
Tom:
That's every podcast, Hank.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Daniel:
It's a great title for a podcast. Two Indifferent Men. Yeah, yeah.
Hank:
I see all those— I see those clips. I see those clips of Two Indifferent Men on TikTok. I can only assume that "indifferent" had somewhat different subtext back then. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's just like they didn't have any stake in the situation.
Ceri:
They weren't getting any nails on the side or anything. Know what I mean?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
That also probably meant something different back then.
SFX:
(laughter intensifies)
Tom:
Hank, for the next question, it's over to you.
Hank:
This question has been sent in by Harry from Christchurch.
Traffic cones were repeatedly scattered at the entrance to a road tunnel on New Zealand's South Island, even in good weather. When traffic authorities reviewed the CCTV, they considered ordering some heavier cones. What was happening?
I'll read that for you a second time.
Traffic cones were repeatedly scattered at the entrance of a road tunnel on New Zealand's South Island, even in good weather. When traffic authorities reviewed the CCTV, they considered ordering some heavier cones. What was happening?
Tom:
I'm stepping out of this because I did not get to film this when I was in New Zealand.
Daniel:
(wheezes)
Ceri:
Oh no.
Hank:
Oh, but you do know about this. Yes. Well done.
Daniel:
Down to you and me, Ceri.
Ceri:
Yeah.
Daniel:
Have you ever been to New Zealand?
Ceri:
I have not. I've not traveled very much at all.
Daniel:
Me neither.
Ceri:
I feel like it's either... human-caused or nature-caused. And, yes, humans are animals, too. But either, human drivers treating the pins like bowling pins and saying, "How many can we knock them over?"
Daniel:
One point each. Two if you get it stuck on your antenna.
Ceri:
Absolutely, yes.
Hank:
That's a classic New Zealander banter.
Tom:
Honestly, I kinda want to play that now. I'm sure people have done car bowling plenty of times in the past, but I want to go car bowling now.
Ceri:
Mhm, yeah, it's like the opposite. All of our lives are set up for driving tests, for road races, and the little controlled, don't hit the cones. All you want to do is hit the cones.
Daniel:
Yeah, it's like, don't think of the elephant. Now you're thinking of an elephant.
Tom:
Thanks, now I'm thinking of an elephant.
Hank:
(laughs)
Ceri:
The other thing is perhaps... But even in good weather, perhaps something to do with the tunnel amplifies the wind that is already existing. If it's on an island, then there are... There is some weather, regardless, just because of the tide and it being close to the shoreline.
Daniel:
I believe New Zealand does have weather. I think.
SFX:
(Hank and Ceri laugh)
Daniel:
I did study meteorology at university for four years. So I think I'm qualified enough to say New Zealand has... some weather.
Ceri:
Oh, great. I took one ecology class, that's it. So you're an expert here. New Zealand has weather confirmed.
Daniel:
Some, some. Let's not go all the way.
Ceri:
Some. Okay, okay.
Hank:
I was interested in a girl who was in meteorology school. So I know exactly that much meteorology that I learned in the six weeks during which I thought that might happen. And that's a big— that's a big reason I learned stuff as a young man.
Tom:
(laughs) That's fair, that's fair.
SFX:
(Hank and Ceri laugh)
Hank:
Also, all of the Rush songs that I know, all 'cause of Heather, all of them.
SFX:
(Tom and Ceri laugh)
Daniel:
Traffic cones are fairly weighty anyway, so...
Hank:
Yeah.
Daniel:
I'm surprised that... Look, I don't think the wind could move them. And also you said in good weather. So even if maybe it was a really badly built tunnel, and the wind just blew straight through it...
Hank:
Yeah, I will say that it— that there were no climate factors at play at all.
Daniel:
My expertise, gone.
Hank:
Oh, no help at all.
Daniel:
(snickers)
Ceri:
No help, it wasn't the weather.
Daniel:
So you're probably right. It's probably nature-related then. It's either humans or animals.
Ceri:
Yes, other animals. What other— New Zealand has a lot of sheep. Is that— That's correct?
Hank:
Sure, that's one... That's a fact I know.
Ceri:
Are sheep belligerent? Have they learned to co-opt the cones in some way? Where they realized that if they drag a cone to a certain patch of grass, then they can eat their little sheepy... sweet treats without being bothered by anyone else.
Hank:
I like the direction of the thinking here, that there's some kind of motive, some kind of goal that may be being achieved.
Daniel:
I'd like to blame cone-ala bears.
Hank:
I don't know what that joke is, but I feel like it was a joke.
Tom:
(deflates)
Daniel:
It's a joke on the word 'cone'. And it landed so well.
Hank:
(laughs)
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Koala bear, which are unfortunately Australian.
Daniel:
Some go on holiday.
SFX:
(Tom and Ceri laugh)
Hank:
Oh, koal— koal— Cone-ala.
Daniel:
Cone-ala b— Yeah, gosh. Well, that stunk out the broom.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Daniel:
You think that will make me stop? It won't.
Tom:
(laughs)
Hank:
I don't want it to.
Ceri:
No, please don't.
Daniel:
It does feel like it's— Is it animal-related?
Hank:
Yes, it is animal and it is not a human.
Ceri:
And it is not a human. Okay, because that is another thing.
I have definitely, in a parking garage, just to see what happened, dragged a cone over to a spot, like an empty spot, and then left. And just been like, what, will people do that? Will people move and park there? They won't. So you can reserve anything, if you put a cone in a spot.
Humans are so rule-following that they'll be like, "Oh, there's a cone there for a reason."
Daniel:
Same thing, just put on a high vis jacket, and you can do anything you want.
Ceri:
Okay, so there's an animal that has then realised that humans will... Or—
Tom:
It occurs to me that I know the animal, but I don't know the motivation.
Hank:
Oh, interesting.
Tom:
So if I can, if you don't mind me putting— So you don't have to guess every animal in New Zealand... I'm pretty sure that this is kea. This is the really smart birds.
Hank:
That is correct.
Tom:
...that cause all sorts of trouble. So, I can tell you that. I can tell you that they're parrot-like, I think, and just...
Hank:
They are. They're the only... the only parrot that lives in mountains, in mountainous areas, I think.
Tom:
But I'm back in here because I can't think what the motivation would be for blocking a road tunnel.
Daniel:
Are they quite small birds, Tom? Would they be able to lift a cone? Because cones are heavy.
Tom:
A light one, yes. There's—
So the thing I didn't get to film was a kea gym.
In order to stop a group of kea somewhere else in New Zealand from just bothering everyone and tearing bits off cars, they just set up a gymnasium for them to keep them occupied. Which worked for a limited amount of time.
And I couldn't film it, because by that point, the kea had got bored of the gymnasium.
SFX:
(Daniel and Ceri laugh)
Tom:
And it had been taken down.
Hank:
But there was something besides just satisfying their little brains that was good about moving these cones.
So why would a parrot want to move a cone? Block, maybe block a tunnel?
Daniel:
Oh! Would there be snails on the inside of a cone or something? Would there be like, because it's damp or something, maybe if it rains.
Hank:
No.
Daniel:
And so they tip it over, and they find little snails inside.
Hank:
I love this, but no. They were moving the cones to a specific place.
Daniel:
A specific place?
Hank:
Intentionally, to block this tunnel.
Daniel:
(sighs)
Ceri:
Were they nesting inside the tunnel? And they didn't want the—
Hank:
No, that's good. That's a good thought.
Ceri:
They didn't want the traffic.
Hank:
And also, Ceri's little bit about rule following is also maybe important. Because humans do respect a cone.
Daniel:
Yes, so, if the birds put the cone there, they're not going to go through the tunnel. So they wanted peace and quiet in the tunnel?
Tom:
The cars stop, and they want to pick something out. Like the snails have actually been crushed by the wheels of the car already. It's like those...
Hank:
This is good, this is good. The cars do stop.
Tom:
It's like those crows that will put a nut or something just in front of a car that stops at a stop light. So it will go, roll over the nut, and then they'll come and pick up the pieces.
Daniel:
Really? That's so clever.
Hank:
That is cool. Another important piece of the puzzle may be that humans also get bored when they have nothing to do.
So what might a human do if there's a bunch of parrots around, and they've stopped their car because there's a bunch of cones?
Daniel:
Do they then feed them? Do they wind their windows down and go, "Here, have a piece of food!"
Hank:
And then they just start feeding.
SFX:
(Ceri and Hank laugh)
Daniel:
Wow!
Ceri:
Like, have a snack.
Tom:
That's brilliant.
Daniel:
That's insane!
Hank:
That's our little friends.
Daniel:
How did they discover that? Where did they go? How did they—
Hank:
I don't know.
Daniel:
Oh, that's so good.
Hank:
Well, they're like, when the cars are stopped, they never— When the cars are moving, they never feed us. And the cars stop when the cones are there. And when the cars are stopped, they sometimes do feed us.
And so it was a very big deal when you're in New Zealand to not feed the kea.
Tom:
Yeah.
Hank:
This is a— It's a very, like, "Tourists, please, for the love of god, please stop feeding the kea."
Daniel:
So you can feed a kea from a Kia. Whilst going to Ikea.
Tom:
(cringe-laughs)
Ceri:
(laughs heartily)
Hank:
So the kea is a large parrot. It's native to New Zealand. They can grow up to 20 inches or 50 centimetres in height. Weigh about a kilogram, so that's like two pounds. They're pretty big birds.
Kea living next to the Homer Tunnel in Milford Sound, realized that they were strong enough to tip over and move the road cones, and they were seen on CCTV dragging the cones across the road in the hope that cars would stop, and hopefully then they would beg for food and get little snacks.
Tom:
This question was sent in by both Shiloh and Matt Story. Thank you both.
At branches of George Webb's, a diner chain in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, they have two clocks side by side. One clock is set one minute later than the other. What is the official reason given for this?
I'll give you that one more time.
At branches of George Webb's, a diner chain in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, they have two clocks side by side. One clock is set one minute later than the other. What is the official reason given for this?
Daniel:
Lazy timekeeping.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Hank:
This seems like way more work, timekeeping. Just be late. Just be earlier, later, right on time. Just be like, eh, that's lazy.
But having two that are set exact— That takes work.
Because they're not even going to be the exact same because they're probably not expensive clocks. Probably have to reset them every month just to make sure that they're correctly one minute off from each other. I love this, I don't know why, but I absolutely, I adore a business that has some stupid thing that they do.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ceri:
Yeah, I mean it has to be, it can't be— There's no practical reason for having clocks one minute apart. Unless you're in like— But even if you were trying to timekeep for exactly one minute.
Hank:
There's a better—
Ceri:
No reason. You can just use one clock to do that. So the two, it has to be for a joke or a bit, or a goof or...
Daniel:
Oh, that's true. I have an idea based on a pun, but I'm not gonna say that yet, just in case it's right.
Tom:
Oh, no, no. Go on, go on. You have to.
Daniel:
Is it so that they can cook a minute steak?
Tom:
It's a lovely pun, but it's not the answer.
Daniel:
Gaaah! It would've been so good, a minute steak. They'd probably take more than a minute.
Tom:
You are right, Ceri, that it is a bit. But it's a bit with something more behind it.
Hank:
Is it, is it that they... Is it that the owner of the place is always late? And so they have a special clock so that he's not always late?
Because that's me. That's what I'd do. I'd be like, "Hey, can you set the clock just one minute fast or one minute slow, so that I am on time?"
Tom:
Yeah, you just have Hank Standard Time. It's about 15 minutes behind.
Daniel:
I have a friend who is never on time. So we always tell them ten minutes before we need them. But then they cottoned on to this. So now, we have to tell them 20 minutes beforehand. And then they cottoned on to that, and... we just gave up. So we now just tell them the time, and we just deal with the fact that they're late.
But they're one of these people who will never be on time. It's very annoying. They know who they are.
Hank:
Is it something to do with where it is? So it was Wisconsin or something?
Tom:
Yes. Other places wouldn't have this problem.
Hank:
Ohhh!
Daniel:
I know that there is a clock in Bristol. Bristol Temple Meads, which is a station, a railway station, which is set... Actually I think it's in the Town Hall in Bristol, but it's set at sort of 11 minutes... I think, later than standard time.
Because when the railways went from London to Bristol, of course, time used to be set by the sun. And noon at one place was 11 minutes away from noon on the other place. So they were... It was before time had been standardised.
Is it anything to do with the standardisation of time?
Tom:
It's not, unfortunately. But there is... something legal about it. So in the sense of like railway time was imposed on the country.
Hank:
Mhm.
Tom:
This was, you know, a law. This is a bit that they are committing to, because it's a bit of a legal loophole.
Daniel:
Ooh.
Hank:
Oh.
Daniel:
Can they serve alcohol one minute earlier?
Hank:
Oh, can they serve alcohol one minute earlier?
Daniel:
Or just...
Hank:
I don't know, diners aren't big in the alcohol space. But yeah, is it something to do with that you can have your beer here first?
Tom:
This is why Milwaukee, Wisconsin was specific. This is a law in that area.
Hank:
Is it to do with a substance?
Tom:
(laughs) I mean, yes, but...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ceri:
It's like saying, is it to do with a chemical?
Tom:
It's a very broad definition that it's a diner that serves food, so...
SFX:
(Hank and Ceri laugh)
Daniel:
Is it a food that Milwaukee is known for? Because I feel like if it's gonna be some type of substance.
Tom:
I wouldn't concentrate on the food here. I I think, to be fair, Hank, I don't think it's actually to do with the substance. I think I went, I committed to the bit there, unnecessarily.
Hank:
It's, yeah, so it's not like alcohol or cigarettes or
Tom:
No, no.
Hank:
caffeine or something.
Ceri:
Does it have to do with the... so they can say something about their diner? Like, they are open a certain number of hours a day. They are open 24 hours a day, because one of the clocks is set a little bit forward.
Tom:
Yes! Absolutely. In fact, it's even down to that 24 hour thing. So what is the loophole? What are they trying to avoid?
Hank:
T—That they're not a 24 hour diner. In fact, they are an 11... They are, they are 23 and 59 and 59 hour diner. Or 59 and...
Tom:
Absolutely right.
I can even quote George Webb here, who said his restaurants were open "23 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds, 7 days a week."
And should the authorities ever want to raid the place... which they never did, and never would. But should they ever want to, then the employee can just point to whichever clock they like, and say, "You know what, nope. Check the time."
Hank:
This is like, there was a rule or attacks against 24-hour establishments?
Tom:
A complete ban on 24-hour establishments by the city when the diners were opened, so...
Daniel:
Wow.
Tom:
There were two clocks, one minute apart. So technically, it closed for just one minute, depending on which clock you looked at.
Hank:
But no one knew which one it was.
Daniel:
Humans, eh? You make a rule, they will try to break the rule.
Tom:
And so apparently will kea.
Hank:
Also parrots.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Ceri, it's over to you for the next question.
Ceri:
After several minutes of fruitless searching, a musician picks up a pencil and a rubber band. Why?
And I'll read it again.
After several minutes of fruitless searching, a musician picks up a pencil and a rubber band. Why?
Hank:
I know this one.
Daniel:
I don't.
Hank:
I must check out.
Tom:
Right.
Hank:
As a musician.
Daniel:
And a rubber band. I mean, the first thought is you're firing that pencil across the room, aren't you? You're absolutely... bing!
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
I like that you're firing the pencil and not the rubber band. My first thought would be that you'd—
Hank:
Oh yeah, do way more damage with the pencil.
Daniel:
Oh yeah, pointy bit first. Pointy bit towards enemy.
Ceri:
And isn't the yells of your fellow peers kind of a music, in a way?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Hank:
You are my instrument.
Tom:
It's the 1812 Overture, only instead of cannons, it's just someone else in the orchestra screaming as you lob a pencil at them.
Hank:
Ay!
Ceri:
Yeah.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Daniel:
Does the pencil have an eraser on the end, and is that important?
Ceri:
It could, it couldn't, it is not important.
Daniel:
I didn't think so, but I had to ask the question.
Ceri:
You can think about what kind of musician Hank is.
Tom:
Yeah.
Ceri:
As a hint.
Tom:
That's what I was thinking. There's gotta be something this is a replacement for. Hank strikes me as a guitarist, or possibly... a ukulele-ist. I don't know what the word is for someone who plays a ukulele.
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Tom:
A yuka?
Hank:
I don't...
Tom:
(stammers)
Hank:
A uke is, would be the shortening of a u...
Tom:
Oh, you know that! You're definitely a ukulele player, okay.
Hank:
No, I'm not.
Ceri:
(laughs)
Hank:
I'm not, but I have lots of stringed instrument friends. I play normal string guitar.
Daniel:
Okay, yeah. I've got an idea, now that I know that it's a guitar.
Tom:
Oh, well, go for it, because I've got nothing. I've got no musical ability. My god, man.
SFX:
(Hank and Ceri chuckle)
Daniel:
Is it... to... Is it like a makeshift thing?
Ceri:
Yes.
Daniel:
Yeah, yeah. Over to you, Tom.
Tom:
Am I the one being left in the dark here? Hank knows it, Dan's worked it out. It's just muggins here trying to figure out what...
Daniel:
I wouldn't fret too much about it, Tom.
Tom:
Oh! Oh, you complete jerk!
Hank:
Wow!
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Tom:
Is this something to do with tuning a guitar?
Ceri:
Yeah.
Tom:
How do you tune a guitar with a pencil and a rubber band? Do you wrap it 'round the frets? Is it a capo?
Daniel:
I think that's where we were going. I think it must be a makeshift capo that you put on the neck of the guitar.
Tom:
This is the thing that you put over all the strings of a guitar to change the tuning in a particular way, right?
Hank:
Yeah, you can change two different keys.
Tom:
That's it. It's a makeshift capo?
Ceri:
Yes, that's it.
Tom:
(sputters) That was more luck than good judgement on my part.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Thank you for leaving me in the dark there, folks.
Ceri:
Yeah, that is truly your friends abandoning you,
SFX:
(Tom and Ceri laugh)
Ceri:
just to answer the question. But yes, this pencil and rubber band is an improvized capo or capo. Is it pronounced—
Tom:
I've never heard that said out loud.
Ceri:
I've heard capo.
Daniel:
Ooh.
Hank:
It sounded the way that you guys were saying, I was like, that must be the British pronunciation.
Ceri:
That's what I thought too.
Hank:
In America, we call it a
Ceri:
capo
Hank:
.
Ceri:
Well, us Americans say capo. Or at least my grandpa did, and he played guitar, too. So, you know, you trust your grandpa.
Tom:
Just for the audience's sake, Ceri, would you please describe a cay-po, cap-o? Because I know what it is in my head, and I don't think any of us have actually said it.
Hank:
(laughs) Yeah.
Ceri:
Yeah. So this is a bar that can be clamped across the guitar's fingerboards or across a fret of the guitar, which changes the pitch of all strings. And normally it's a little plastic thingy that you pinch open and put across.
But in this question, this musician was unable to find their capo.
They put the pencil across the fingerboard and then threaded either end into the rubber band to keep it in place. And so the pencil then was pressing down all the strings on one of the frets and became a makeshift capo.
Tom:
Which just leaves us with the question I asked the audience at the very start.
What is the largest biological cell that most people will see on a regular basis?
In my head, this is a Hank question. This seems like the kind of fact that would have come out at some point.
Daniel:
Is it a mushroom? Absolutely no idea.
Ceri:
An egg? Like a chicken egg?
Hank:
Yeah, chicken egg.
Tom:
It is a chicken egg, yes. Well, specifically, it's the yolk of an egg.
And we are simplifying because there are so many 'um actually's on this question that I know we're going to get angry messages.
SFX:
(Hank and Ceri giggle)
Tom:
But yes, it is an egg.
So congratulations to all our players. Thank you for running the gauntlet with us today. Where can people find you? What's going on in your lives? Let's start with Ceri.
Ceri:
The best place to find me is on the podcast that I do with Hank called SciShow Tangents.
We release an episode every other week, and if you like science trivia, we don't do as much geography or music or whatnot, but we touch on it sometimes. We're there goofing, playing games... answering your science questions.
Tom:
Dan!
Daniel:
You can find me on Twitch a few nights a week, streaming UK time, sort of about 8:00 a few nights a week, and on YouTube at @QuizzyDan.
Tom:
And Hank, what's going on with you?
Hank:
You can find me on hankschannel, or on vlogbrothers, or on SciShow, or on SciShow Tangents, and... and on Twitter and TikTok. And I should probably take a break.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
If you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own idea for a question. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are regular video highlights at youtube.com/lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Hank Green!
Hank:
Woo!
Tom:
Daniel Peake.
Ceri:
Thank you very much.
Tom:
And Ceri Riley.
Ceri:
Thanks, Tom.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
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