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Episode 98: 65 luggage bags
Published 23rd August, 2024
Eglė Vaškevičiūtė, Bill Sunderland and Dani Siller face questions about mammal moments, brand boundaries and artist assistance.
HOST: Tom Scott. QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe. EDITED BY: Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin. MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com). ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS: Jamie, TreeSpawned. FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
Transcript
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
What's the unique selling point of an Asian brand of bottled water called DMZ 2km?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Welcome to the show that's been described by critics as "a laugh a minute". Unfortunately, that minute was 11:45 pm yesterday. So, let's see who's here to help us increase that ratio.
Well, it's the sort of show today that makes our question editors quite worried, because we have an entire cast with us today, all of whom write their own puzzles, their own questions, their own things very much like Lateral.
So, with the best of luck to our question team, we start with our returning players from Escape This Podcast: Bill Sunderland, Dani Siller, how are you both doing?
Dani:
Great! You'd think that would make us better at the show, wouldn't you? You'd think!
SFX:
(Tom and Bill laugh)
Tom:
You have nailed quite a few questions very quickly here before.
We— I think we've rolled out the shiny bonus question for you a couple times, when we've gone through very quickly.
Bill:
True, but I have also seen all the comments on the videos where we don't, and they sit there going, "You idiots! How did you not know?"
Tom:
(laughs)
Bill:
"It's a cube! It's a famous cube!"
Tom:
I can't even remember that question. That's clearly burned into your head.
Bill:
Oh, I've made it up, but it sounds like a Lateral question. There's always a famous cube in the middle of these shows.
Tom:
Dani, if you can name one famous cube we've talked about before, I'll be amazed.
Dani:
I'm stuck on famous spheres right now. We've definitely had those.
Tom:
(laughs flusteredly) Have we? I must have asked 500 questions by now. I've got no memory of them.
Dani:
That's how it goes.
Tom:
Well, thank you very much for coming back and running the gauntlet one more time. We have a new player with you. We have freelance quiz writer, professional question editor for various things.
We have Eglė Vaškevičiūtė. How are you doing?
Eglė:
Hello! I'm... I guess okay. These days it's been less hot, so I stopped melting. Which is a great thing, I think.
SFX:
(Tom and Dani laugh)
Tom:
You have written questions for Lateral before, I believe?
Eglė:
Yes, I have.
Dani:
Do you remember any cubes or spheres?
Bill:
(cackles)
Eglė:
Not cubes or spheres. I do remember two that made it onto YouTube highlights. So... that was very great.
Tom:
Alright.
Eglė:
You know, moments of 15 minutes of fame.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Eglė:
But yeah, nothing about spheres, I don't think. Not yet.
Tom:
Well, we are putting our question team in the limelight today, front and centre. Very best of luck to all of you.
Our questions are a bit like onions. If you peel away the layers one at a time, they're still very likely to make you cry. So it's chop-chop as we slice and dice our way through to question one.
This question has been sent in by TreeSpawned.
When playing a game, how might you benefit from 'Coyote time'?
I'll say that again.
When playing a game, how might you benefit from 'Coyote time'?
Bill:
Now—
Tom:
I am really glad that the panel is blank on this one, 'cause I was like, "Oh, it's obvious! I know that one!"
Thank you, good.
Dani:
You said gaming, I was excited! And then...
Tom:
(chuckles)
Bill:
I am unblanked. I am going to say, I'm not even gonna help, because I think I know this.
Dani:
Ah, no.
Tom:
Ooh, okay.
Bill:
I think I know what Coyote time is. I think I know how it helps in games. And I will disappear into the shadows.
Eglė:
And then will scare us when you're back.
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Dani:
Alright, Eglė, I know a bit about games. I know very little about coyotes. Do you have any coyote knowledge?
Eglė:
I mean, they're canine, that's kinda it.
Well, I don't know. My first thought was that maybe, 'Coyote' is some part in a board game, like a character in a board game.
So you're required to yell, "Oh, it's Coyote time", and you do a specific thing?
Dani:
(cackles) Uno, but much more intense.
SFX:
(scattered chuckling)
Eglė:
Yeah... It's probably not that.
Tom:
No, but I can totally see a board game with just "Coyote Time" on the side. That's because I have a friend who released a game called Muffin Time. That's why that's in my head.
Bill:
(laughs)
Tom:
That's...
Eglė:
Now I keep thinking about a coyote eating muffins, so there's that.
Bill:
Oh, Tom, you're poisoning the waters.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Dani:
Alright, what else is there about coyotes? I don't know anything about their behaviour. So I can't even tell you, are they nocturnal? That feels like if I'm trying to think of "Coyote time", that feels like essential knowledge. And I don't even have that.
Eglė:
I think there may be a bit lo— So, is Coyote... The question is, is 'Coyote' related to the game, or is it just some sort of, I don't know, local slang term that's used for, for example, going off to make some tea? Or going off, you know, to take a bio break, or things like that?
Dani:
I was definitely more thinking that than something 100% related to an individual game that has coyotes.
Bill:
That does remind me. I've stepped out of answering this one. So I might just take some Coyote time.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Bill:
Come back in five.
Tom:
Oh, I don't know what that's a euphemism for, and I'm worried about it.
Bill:
Only good things.
SFX:
(Tom and Eglė laugh)
Dani:
But I was also... totally thinking video games. Because people tend to figure out more strategies for video games than they do for their board games.
Eglė:
I was actually thinking more board games, but maybe just, I don't know. Because they usually have more weird phrases like that. But maybe that's just me.
Tom:
In this case, it's Dani that's on the right lines.
Eglė:
Video games.
Tom:
This is not one specific game either. This is in quite a few.
Dani:
And it's something that can help them do a bit better at the games. It's something advantageous, game wise.
Tom:
Yes.
Dani:
(sighs) What other weird ones are? I know what smurfing is, but not Coyote.
Bill:
That sounds worse than Coyote time.
Dani:
It does, you're right.
Bill:
That sounds so much worse than Coyote time.
Dani:
It's completely innocent as a phrase, and yet.
Tom:
And yet is also... much closer to the answer than you might think.
Dani:
What? What do coyotes do?!
Tom:
There is a weird connection through the Smurfs here.
Eglė:
Okay.
Dani:
What?!
Bill:
I know, I know the connection. Like I know the answer, I also know the connection.
Tom:
(laughs)
Bill:
(snickers)
Eglė:
Okay, so I guess for the audience:
Smurfing is when, you know, you're playing on an account that looks significantly lower level than you actually are in the game.
Dani:
Yeah, so you can destroy all the little people.
Eglė:
So is Coyote like the opposite? If that could be a thing? Or maybe if you're, you know, if you're...
Bill:
That's Gargameling.
Tom:
(chuckling)
Eglė:
Fair.
Tom:
I wouldn't get hung up on the Smurfs specifically.
Eglė:
Okay.
Tom:
But it's named in kind of the same way.
Dani:
Billy, can you give us a hint, something?
Tom:
(laughs)
Dani:
What aspect of coyotes should we be paying attention to?
Bill:
I can give you a hint. 'Coyotes' with an S at the end, that's irrelevant. Don't worry about coyotes.
Dani:
Ohhh!
Tom:
Oh, that's a good hint. You've done this before.
Bill:
(laughs)
Dani:
Oh, well, in that case, I only know one famous coyote that is coyote, singular.
Tom:
Mhm.
Eglė:
Oh, the— the— I forgot his name, but the one from the neep-neep.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Bill:
Yes!
Eglė:
Wile E. Coyote, I think.
Tom:
Wile E. Coyote, yes, and Roadrunner.
Dani:
Alright, now what does— But Wile E. Coyote notoriously does not do well at things. There are many things that are done to Wile E. Coyote.
Tom:
And the connection with the Smurfs there was just me pointing out the animated character thing. This is both stuff that's been named after animated characters.
Dani:
Is it, in some way— Is it that sometimes, video games have bad frame boxes, and you can just sort of hover off cliffs a little bit, in the same way that Wile E. Coyote takes a moment before he falls to his near-death?
Eglė:
Oh, that makes so much sense.
Tom:
It makes a lot of sense. That is 95% of the way there.
But it's— you phrased it as bad boxes. And this is less an accident and more of a specific choice by the person making the game.
Eglė:
Invisible planes for you to walk on? Or to find hidden stuff?
Tom:
It's time, not space.
Bill:
Welcome to Coyote Space.
Tom:
(laughs)
Dani:
Some sort of delay in when— in falling and stuff like that. And taking advantage of that.
Tom:
Yes.
Dani:
Why would that be a thing that you would want to put in there?
Bill:
I think the classic example you see of that is in stuff like...
I mean, I suppose you might argue it's a thing for double jumping. But also if you— You see it a lot in, especially speedruns of like Donkey Kong Country, where they'll go off the edge, and there's still time for them to jump and then get an even further jump between two gaps, because they can run a little bit past the edge before the game registers that they're falling, and they can still jump from nowhere.
Dani:
Okay, see, I do this a lot in video games. I assumed that was me being great at the game in ways that the designers didn't intend.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Eglė:
So is this just sort of to account for lag or something like that?
Tom:
It's more to just give the player a little bit of leeway.
Eglė:
Okay.
Tom:
If you make it frame and pixel accurate, that the moment you are one pixel off that ledge, you plummet to your doom, players will think, "Oh, this is rubbish. I absolutely got that. I was safe. That's wrong."
If you give them a couple of pixels and maybe a couple of frames of time just to hover over the edge of the cliff like Wile E. Coyote and save themselves, they will have a much better playing experience. And that is called Coyote time.
Eglė, we're gonna go to you for the first guest question of the show, please.
Eglė:
Okay, so my question is:
In Ucacha, Argentina, a 3-foot-long section of a wooden pole was strapped high up an electricity pylon. Why?
Once again.
In Ucacha, Argentina, a 3-foot-long section of a wooden pole was strapped high up on electricity pylon. Why?
Tom:
You know sometimes when the entire panel goes, "I've got this"?
Bill:
This is the opposite?
Tom:
None of the panel got this.
Bill:
You don't think it's, you know— You didn't get my idea straight away?
It's a little bridge for birds. A little bird bridge, in case they want to walk along and not hurt their little feet on the wires.
Dani:
That's better than mine. I was going to pretend they're going to conduct more electricity.
Tom:
Oh yeah, but that would hurt the birds. The birds can perch on wires because they don't connect to any other wire.
But the minute you link two of those wires, you're gonna have... The electricity's gonna be out of phase, I think. It's a different phase per wire.
Bill:
Oh wow.
Tom:
If I remember my pylons correctly(!)
SFX:
(guests snickering)
Tom:
If you bridge the two wires, that's when you're gonna be in trouble.
Bill:
Even with a piece of wood? So do you think this is causing...
Tom:
Oh, if it's an electricity pylon, it's going to be tens of thousands of volts up there. That's enough to—
Dani:
Are there any bad birds that they really hate down there?
Bill:
Yeah, what's the most hated bird in Argentina?
Tom:
Argentina, right? Three foot wooden pole, up an electricity pylon, okay.
Bill:
So you can use it as a flying fox!
SFX:
(Tom and Bill snicker)
Bill:
You hold onto the wooden pole, and you slide down the wires!
Dani:
I can't think of anything logical, so I'm willing to roll with that.
Tom:
Did you not see the public information films or public service announcements as a kid, saying, don't play on construction sites and don't play around pylons?
We ha— We got shown terrifying films in school, like, this is what will happen to you if you go into electricity equipment. You will die. Like, they were grisly.
Bill:
This is little Jimmy. Don't recognise him? It's because he's a pile o' ash. 'Cause he was too close to the pylons. That stain on the floor is little Jimmy.
And it could be you, Tom. You, Tom Scott! I'm talking straight to you!
Tom:
(laughs) That got slightly too personal for me, but never mind.
Dani:
I got that one as well, weirdly.
Bill:
Yeah, that doesn't work for most people. But when it hits, it hits hard.
Tom:
I mean, it worked. I did not go into electricity substations, so...
Bill:
I'm pretty sure I've seen videos of you standing and playing around on electric pylons. So I don't think it worked at all.
Tom:
Okay, yes. Yes, with permission.
Bill:
Question, back to the question. What's the answer?
Dani:
How are we visualising this thing having been attached? 'Cause Bill, it seemed like you were going horizontal.
Bill:
I pictured horizontal. Bridging wires. But apparently, that's a bad idea.
Tom:
Oh, in my head, it was dangling. In my head, it was attached there and just kind of blowing in the wind.
Eglė:
I'm gonna say none of you are right in that.
Tom:
Ooh, okay.
Bill:
Diagonal!
Tom:
So, maybe it's along the wires, then.
Bill:
Oh?
Dani:
There's no good reason for it to just be sticking straight up to make it taller? To be the tallest pylon in the village?
Bill:
That's it.
Tom:
Oh, I assumed it was in the wires, not in the structure of the pylon itself.
Dani:
Been over this many times. I don't know how anything is built, especially when electricity gets involved.
Eglė:
It was attached to the pole, but— to the pole itself, but it wasn't dangling.
Tom:
Oh is this like a telegraph pole? Or is this like a big metal structure pylon with a lot of different bits to it?
Bill:
It's like the ones you'd have on a street or across a country.
Eglė:
So yeah, it was just like you would see on the street.
Bill:
Okay, okay.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
Bill:
I have to change my mental picture.
Dani:
I do wish I was better at GeoGuessr, because this is the sort of thing that they know. They know everything about every pylon and different little straps of tape that get attached to them. Everything like that. I'm sure they know why.
Bill:
So, so, so the stick is on the body of the post. It's on the wooden... body of a telephone wire sort of thing.
Eglė:
The telephone post isn't wooden.
Bill:
Oh, okay.
Tom:
So this is like a concrete pole or something like that, that holds electricity wires, things like that, and then you have three foot of wood attached to it for some reason.
Eglė:
Correct, yes.
Tom:
Just kinda stuck on the side.
Bill:
The wooden pole... I think when I've initially pictured it, I was picturing like a broomstick. But is it like a wooden section?
Dani:
More solid than that?
Tom:
(gasps)
Bill:
Of an old traffic... an old wooden pylon stuck on the side of a new cement one?
Eglė:
Well, it was sort of an old pole,
Bill:
Okay.
Eglė:
An old pylon pole.
Dani:
Tom's looking excited.
Tom:
Does that town in Argentina really like its woodpeckers?
Eglė:
Yes!
Dani:
Aww!
Bill:
What? Oh, that's so cute!
Tom:
They replaced the pole... with concrete, or metal, or something like that, with a modern one.
Dani:
And so the woodpeckers got sad?
Tom:
And then the birds were like, we can't nest in here. And so the locals put the old pole up, or put an old pole up, something like that?
Bill:
Oh, that's lovely.
Eglė:
That's exactly that, yes.
So, because the town was developing, there was new housing built, and the local manager was aware, you know, that the birds like the wooden poles. Specifically woodpeckers that were residing in that town. And, you know, because you had to change from old wooden poles to new concrete ones, the birds couldn't nest there anymore.
So a section of old wooden pole with a hole in it were connected, were strapped next to the metal— the new concrete pole. So the birds would still be able to nest and have a habitat there.
Bill:
Oh, that's nice.
Dani:
That's amazing.
Tom:
That's lovely.
Dani:
Has anyone here seen a woodpecker in real life?
Eglė:
Yes!
Dani:
Really? Are they as cool as they seem?
Eglė:
They're really cool. I usually see them in a cemetery, and it's not— I usually more hear them than see them. But the last time I was there, I was able to actually see one, and I was really excited.
Dani:
That's so cool!
Bill:
That's nice.
Eglė:
Yeah. So, in a way, when Bill immediately opened up with something about birds, I was just trying not to laugh and not to give away.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Eglė:
Because he was right on the money right from the get go.
Tom:
Good luck, folks. Here's the next one.
A metal plaque lists the following items: "1 Volkswagen Passat, 6 grizzly bears, 65 luggage bags, 454 chihuahuas, 30,000 Snickers bars". Why?
I'll say that again.
A metal plaque lists the following items: "1 Volkswagen Passat, 6 grizzly bears, 65 luggage bags, 454 chihuahuas, 30,000 Snickers bars". Why?
Eglė:
I actually know this, so I'm gonna—
Tom:
Alright.
Dani:
Ooh.
Eglė:
Yeah, and I was trying to think of a way to make this into a question, and I didn't for a moment.
Tom:
(laughs) In the end, this one was written by David, the producer, and he just wrote the contents of the plaque.
Eglė:
Fair.
Tom:
That's just the whole question. Dani, Bill, this one's for you.
Dani:
Alright, well, it started— I think I've got some more reasonable guesses, but it started to get more morbid as it went down.
Because I started going, oh, you know, there's some airline, and this is all the things that they've lost over time.
And then we got to 450 chihuahuas, and I got really sad.
Tom:
Sorry, six grizzly bears is the more concerning part of that guess.
Dani:
That's one very specific flight.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
That's true.
Dani:
Back in the very old upsetting circus days.
Tom:
How many chihuahuas can you fit on a plane?
Dani:
I would hones— I would expect more than 450.
'Cause chihuahuas, they don't weigh much. They're like two or three kilos for a chihuahua.
Tom:
Yeah, I think an A380 has more than 450 seats for people if it's all filled out.
Dani:
Yeah, yeah. We're barely cracking a ton of chihuahuas.
Tom:
I have seen a picture of... I think it was a flight from Dubai where there were five or six falcons on board with their handlers.
Bill:
Oh, nice.
Tom:
And they just sat there with a hood over, just restrained with the handler there. And it's just, this is the fastest that falcon's ever going to go!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Bill:
It feels almost a waste to put a bird in a plane. It's not going to appreciate the view. It's like, this is normal.
Tom:
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Well, technically...
Bill:
Ah, it's gotta be both.
Tom:
Thank you to our producer, who has just quickly researched: on Qatar Airways, passengers can have one falcon with them, with a maximum of six falcons per plane.
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Bill:
Whereas my first thought was that this question had big Alex Horne energy. And they're all different ways to measure the same thing.
It's like, "Well, it's either six grizzly bears, or maybe it's 450 chihuahuas, or about 30,000 Snickers bars." And I think it's all the same weight as whatever this thing is commemorating.
Tom:
Yes, spot on.
Bill:
It is a plaque dedicated to Alex Horne. In the only way that he would like.
SFX:
(others giggling)
Bill:
The Taskmaster creator.
Tom:
If Alex Horne weighs the same as one Volkswagen Passat or six grizzly bears.
Dani:
(cackles)
Bill:
Hey, look... I don't want to say anything bad about him, but if you've seen him lately...
Tom:
Oh!
SFX:
(both crack up)
Tom:
In my head now, Alex Horne is just listening to this podcast... And just, if you are, Alex, hi. Just deeply upset at this slander.
Bill:
Nah, Alex loves it. I know, he's loving it.
Tom:
(laughs)
Dani:
Is it just a peculiar lift elevator that has decided... It's, you know... Maybe it's not even like trying to say these are our restrictions. It's trying to make you feel better If you're scared of a lift cable breaking. And trying to say, "Don't worry, you'll be fine. This thing could handle 450 chihuahuas".
And I don't know any other way to make you feel better. Unless you have recently consumed 30,000 Snickers bars, you're going to be fine.
Bill:
I love it 'cause that's just their version of the "this fits eleven people". Because I don't know if you do or I do, when you get into something that says "eleven people", and you count the space, and you're like, "I could fit eleven people in here easy. We're all gonna crash. Oh no!"
Tom:
You are absolutely spot on.
Dani:
Oh yeah?
Tom:
The full sign says: "20 persons or 1500 kg. Alternative: 1 Volkswagen Passat", also "1 hippo, 6 grizzly bears", a few other ones in there as well.
But yes, this is an elevator sign pointing out the weights that it can take.
Dani:
Why not?
Bill:
Amazing.
Tom:
Bill, over to you for the next question.
Bill:
This question was sent in by Jamie.
'Underwater Swimming' was an event at the 1900 Olympic Games in Paris. Competitors had to swim underwater for as long and as far as possible. Peder Lykkeberg swam for the longest time and the furthest distance, but only came third. How?
One more time.
'Underwater Swimming' was an event at the 1900 Olympic Games in Paris. Competitors had to swim underwater for as long and as far as possible. Peder Lykkeberg swam for the longest time and the furthest distance, but only came third. How?
Eglė:
So my thought is that... what if it wasn't a closed pool? And if he was underwater, he couldn't see if he was finished with the race distance or not.
So for placement wise, he was third, but overall for how long he swam and for how far he swam, he was, you know, the longest and that kind of thing.
Dani:
So you're saying two other people hit the finish line. Then he hit the finish line and kept going.
Eglė:
Right, because he didn't realise that he was already finished or something like that.
Tom:
I was thinking the opposite, that it was a closed pool. And they just reach the end. But that would be joint first, not joint third.
Bill:
It does— In the question, it is specific. They were— It was swimming underwater for as long and as far as possible. And this person, Peder, did go for the longest time and the furthest distance. But did come third.
Tom:
So it's not a joint first thing?
Bill:
No joint first. There was a first place, there was a second place, and there was a Peder.
Dani:
How specific are these rules from these quirky 1900 games?
I don't recall you saying specifically, in one breath. So was their time and their distance averaged out by the number of breaths they took throughout their run? Swim?
Bill:
You were right to be thinking about the specifics of the rules. But one breath across everybody was the same. It wasn't about taking multiple breaths.
Tom:
That's such a weird event. That wouldn't be allowed now, because it's— Well, actually, it would. It's free diving under a different name, isn't it? That's a— It's a breath hold challenge or something like that.
But I feel like an event where if you don't complete it, you risk dying, probably isn't the spirit of the modern Olympics.
Bill:
It's the 1900 Olympics, Tom. It was the Wild West back then. They were doing whatever they wanted.
Dani:
This is interesting. What weird rules can we come up with?
Eglė:
I was thinking, what if it wasn't the only event? You have a heptathlon or pentathlon. So what if in that race, that was, you know, longest, farther, therefore first in that event, but only third in the Olympic event as such?
Dani:
I think Bill, you might have been talking about this when you said this was becoming your shtick. I feel you had a question like that at some point before.
Bill:
My last Olympics question, I think, was about paintings done during a 1904 painting event.
Tom:
Yes!
Bill:
I would say that's a classic Olympics gotcha, is the heptathlons and the septathlons and the decathlons. In this case, one event. They just go for as long and as far as possible.
Tom:
Wait a minute, 1900s. This... could have been in a river. Not in a pool. Maybe there was a current or something like that, that changed— But, again, it's not like it had changed that much. It's not like they were... that suddenly, the floodgates opened, and he's definitely swum further, 'cause he's been pushed two miles downstream.
Dani:
Just this one swimmer.
Tom:
Just this one swimmer.
Dani:
You're right, 1900, is that— Oh, I'm iffy on my early years. Was that a Paris one?
Bill:
It was Paris.
Dani:
Is that relevant?
Bill:
No.
Dani:
Okay.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Eglė:
We had to try.
Bill:
You're thinking a lot about the Olympics, which makes sense, 'cause this is a question, about the Olympics, and it's about sport.
Weirdly, my question might be to think more about maths classes in year nine. I think, I'm trying to remember when you sort of learned this sort of fact.
But there's a mathematical fact that you would have learned in school that's relevant.
Dani:
I was going to ask something faintly about this... which is, something, question mark, question mark, horizontal distance, vertical distance. Was someone doing lots of diagonals and lots of Pythagoras, and 1900 Paris couldn't take it?
Bill:
It's close, it's not about the— It is about sort of like types of 'distance' that you might think about.
Tom:
So if we think three-dimensionally... is there a depth included in this? Is there... Were they doing laps around the pool, and one of them cut the corners?
Dani:
Something parabolic.
Tom:
Something Pythagorean.
Bill:
You're getting close to the idea. You're getting close to the idea. He did go— He swam the longest, and he swam... over a longer distance. He swam the furthest... The furthest of anybody, but he came third.
Dani:
He had the worst displacement, despite having the best distance.
Bill:
He had the worst displacement.
Dani:
What?
Bill:
Do you wanna just— Can you describe for people at home, who don't know what displacement and distance is, Dani, would you like to describe what this is?
Dani:
Okay, so the difference between distance and displacement is distance is just overall amount that has been travelled, but displacement is the distance from a starting point.
Meaning that if you go a really long way and come back to your starting point, your displacement is zero.
Tom:
So was it... current or ocean tides or something like that, that moved...
Dani:
Was it an accident, or did he just not know that this was a problem?
Tom:
Or did the competitors just not know how to go in a straight line?
Bill:
Now, I cannot guarantee... We have limited sourcing, but that seems to be the case.
While his two competitors swam for... He swam for 90 seconds. His two competitors swam for 20 seconds less, right? They swam 60, 70 seconds. But they swam in one straight line forward, while Peder, presumably not fully understanding the rules in the Wild West of the 1900 Olympics, swam in circles. And he went circles and circles and circles.
So even though he swam much further than the 60 metres that his competitors swam, he was only credited with swimming 28.5 metres based on where he ended up compared to where he started.
Dani:
Man!
Bill:
Poor Peder.
Dani:
That's upsetting. Now, my real question following this is, were there only three people in this race, or were there some people who did even smaller circles?
Bill:
There were other people. Peder swam so well, he still got third. The time underwater and the distance were scored separately.
Dani:
Okay.
Bill:
So he made up a lot of points on the time underwater, even though he lost a lot in— for swimming in circles.
Dani:
Oh, that's a heartbreaker.
Bill:
Heartbreaker. Poor Peder.
Eglė:
I guess work smarter, not harder.
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Bill:
Go forward!
Tom:
Next question's from me, folks. Good luck.
A secure outer perimeter fence surrounds Jean Lesage International Airport in Quebec. However, at several locations, a panel encircles a round hole in the chain link fence, which is large enough for a fist. Why?
I'll say that again.
A secure outer perimeter fence surrounds Jean Lesage International Airport in Quebec. However, at several locations, a panel encircles a round hole in the chain link fence, which is large enough for a fist. Why?
Dani:
I think I've heard this one before. It's so the woodpeckers can get through, back to the trees that they like so much.
Eglė:
(laughs)
Tom:
No, the woodpeckers have actually just drilled out the hole out of the chain link fence over time.
Bill:
That's it.
Dani:
Oh, they're very industrious up there.
Tom:
Yeah.
Eglė:
Yeah, but they did it in circles. So it took them longer to do than the ones that just went straight through.
SFX:
(Tom and Dani laugh)
Tom:
We're tying it all together here! We're tying it all together.
Bill:
Now just to make sure we're all on the same page... When we say a panel surrounds the circle, are there... eight completely useless Canadian bureaucrats gathered around just deciding what to do about these circles?
They haven't fixed them up. They've called a panel together. They've said, "Listen, we need to have a meeting. We don't, you know, is this— Are we going to do anything about this?"
Tom:
Sometimes, Bill, it is worth nitpicking the words in these questions. In this case, that's not worth a nitpick.
Bill:
Agh. (snaps fingers) Damn.
Dani:
Now, the description of large enough, the size to put a fist through, relevant or just a good visual for us? What do we think?
Bill:
It's an Alex Horne measurement. You know, you just sort of measure things in fist widths.
Tom:
Fist Widths is a Dickens character, isn't it?
Bill:
(laughs heartily)
Dani:
If it's a fist width, that is a handing bribes through, I believe, if it's about the width of a fist, and it's meant for a fist.
Bill:
Why do you do fist width? What do you need to stick a fist through an airport for?
Eglė:
I mean, not necessarily a fist, but a hand to give someone their lost ticket or something, or passport, maybe.
Bill:
Yeah. Yeah, it's very— Oh, it's a very specific— Like, if you've built a fence, ideally, you build it to not let things go through it. That's step one of fence building. You don't want it full of holes because it's a fence. So why— What do they keep— Presumably they're keeping people out, or cars out, or animals out.
Tom:
Yeah, this is the perimeter fence at an airport.
Bill:
They want to allow something through.
Dani:
So presumably these are things that, at least from the inside, only a very specific subset of people would be able to go there and have access to this hole. Like, only ground workers, from the way I'm picturing it.
Tom:
From the inside, yes.
Dani:
What'd they be handing in and out?
Eglė:
Do we know how high those holes are... in the fence are, from the ground?
Bill:
The fist width, are they fist height?
Tom:
Yeah, they're more or less fist height. I'll give you that.
Eglė:
(laughs)
Bill:
The height—
Tom:
(laughs)
Bill:
Now, is that the height that if I stuck my— Are we talking five feet high or just off the ground?
Tom:
We're talking about four or five feet high, yeah.
Bill:
Okay.
Tom:
At what I would call fist height.
Bill:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's established parlance. We don't need to—
Eglė:
You say fist height. That's almost my full height.
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Bill:
Yeah. And I have more fence-based questions. My first picture was just a metal— a chain link fence, which almost has fist-size holes all over it, if you're a baby.
Dani:
Good point.
Tom:
Yes.
Bill:
Is it a chain— It is a chain link fence?
Tom:
It is a chain link fence.
Dani:
Oh, so the fist size holes are not much larger than the regular holes.
Bill:
Eglė, take it home.
SFX:
(group cracks up)
Eglė:
Well, yeah, I was just waiting for this moment. Is there anything attached to the hole? Like a pipe of sorts, so that you can send things through?
Bill:
I mean, I suppose we got the panel, right?
Dani:
Oh yeah, haven't been thinking about that.
Tom:
There is that panel with some writing on it. Says the area is reserved.
Dani:
What do we know about Canada?
Bill:
Yeah, what do those Québécois love?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Bill:
Of sticking their whole arms through fences. It's a national sport.
Eglė:
It's to prevent six grizzly bears or 450 chihuahuas from coming in.
Tom:
(laughs)
Bill:
That's it. I've got a panel. Like a, like a wood, like a metal panel, like just a big sheet of metal?
Tom:
Just a sign panel.
Bill:
Just a sign.
Tom:
Just giving you a warning, a note that this space is reserved.
Bill:
This space is reserved for people... It's not like it helps you to see anything better.
You're not going to look through the hole because you can look through the fence, right?
Tom:
Keep going that way, Bill.
Dani:
When you first started describing at the beginning of the question, I went, "Oh, you know, like at an amusement park, you stick your face in the hole for a photo".
Eglė:
Is it, yeah, is it meant for photographers because they have elongated—
Dani:
Wait, are you kidding?
Bill:
So they can stick their lens through?
Tom:
Yep, exactly right, Eglė.
Eglė:
I don't know how those things are called, but yeah, the camera fronts.
Tom:
The lenses, yes.
Eglė:
Lenses, there we go.
Tom:
This is for photographers.
These were specifically set up because the photographers were annoyed that if they try and take long-lens pictures of aircraft, the fence is in the way.
Eglė:
Right.
Tom:
So these are about the size of a fist, or about the size of a hand holding a camera lens, as they put the long lens through that hole. The sign says, "Area reserved for photographers". I have seen those photographer holes in a couple of places. There is... 'Photographer holes' doesn't sound good. I want a different name for those.
Bill:
Sorry Tom, that's accepted parlance.
Dani:
Forbidden peepholes.
Bill:
Yeah, forbidden peepholes, go for that.
Tom:
There's a couple of airports that will charge admission to their viewing terrace, because they know they can make some money out of the photographer nerds, the aviation geeks who want to go up and spot the planes coming and going.
Dani:
It definitely took a slightly more whole— Slight, eh... slightly more wholesome route than I was expecting, 'cause talking about all these photographers, I was very much thinking, oh, you know, the paparazzi trying to get the celebrity as they walk down off the aircraft, hoping to catch them fall.
Eglė:
I thought it was done for purposeful marketing, because you do need shots of planes to put on your social media.
Dani:
Makes a lot more sense.
Eglė:
Or, you know, a company website or things like that.
Tom:
There is the guy called BIG JET TV in the UK, who anytime it's stormy, will rock up on his van with— that he can stand on the roof on, in a hotel car park next to Heathrow, with a really long lens and a really good windproof microphone, and will just livestream and commentate all the jets coming in.
"Oh, he's a bit bouncy here. Is he gonna make it? Is he gonna make it? Oh, he's taking— No, that's a go-around! Good luck there, mate!"
Dani:
There is no enthusiast like a transport enthusiast.
Eglė:
That sounds dangerous!
Tom:
Oh, he's a long way off. He's got a very long lens, and he doesn't have to poke it through any photographer holes.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Eglė:
Now that sounds like a euphemism for something.
Tom:
Really need a different word for that.
Dani, over to you for the next one.
Dani:
Alright, I hope we're all ready for this.
Artist Walead Beshty displays artworks which consist of two objects of similar size. One object is an empty cuboid of cracked glass.
Bill:
It's the famous cube!
Dani:
What is the other item?
One more time, and I know I'm excited too.
Bill:
(wheezes)
Dani:
Artist Walead Beshty displays artworks which consist of two objects of similar size. One object is an empty cuboid of cracked glass. What is the other item?
Tom:
Man, there is not much to go on here. An empty cuboid of cracked glass.
Bill:
And something else of a similar size. Maybe, presumably, the original contents of said cuboid?
Tom:
There is an artist I only found out about recently. And I will have to ask producer David to frantically Google here, based on very limited information.
He is, I would describe him as David Blaine, but much less commercial, and with a lot more artistic credibility.
Dani:
(snickers)
Tom:
And the artwork I saw from him was a big— a bath, basically. Which he is in, that is then filled with sharp shards of glass. Just broken glass.
Eglė:
Oh, gosh.
Tom:
And the artwork is him very, very slowly and carefully climbing out of it.
Dani:
Oh, performance art.
Tom:
Thank you to producer David.
His name is Yann Marussich. It was 600 kilos of glass that he very slowly and carefully escaped from.
Dani:
I mean, I'm relieved that it's not this person, that that's not the artist we're dealing with in this one. As far as I know, no one rolled around and bathed on the glass involved in this.
Bill:
Okay. This is the moment. There are— These are people listening to the show screaming at us. It's a famous cube. What is wrong with you? It's a famous cube.
SFX:
(Tom and Eglė laugh)
Bill:
We've come full circle, ironically.
Dani:
Yeah, it is a tough one. There's not much to go on to start with. Really got to get into the nature of this cuboid.
Bill:
It's a piece of art, right? And aside from what people complaining about modern art on the internet will tell you, there'll be a thematic connection between the glass cuboid and the other object, right? It isn't random. There is some meaningful connection. Is 'cracked glass cuboid' just a way to... obfuscate a description of an object we all know?
Dani:
Actually, no. This is extremely clear and extremely accurate.
Bill:
Alright, sure.
Dani:
Looking at the pictures of it, there is very little else you would use to describe it. It's a rectangular prism. It is glass. It is cracked.
Eglė:
If it's using something that, you know, already exists in the world rather than creating the cuboid... I'm trying to think, where would you find a glass cuboid that, you know, someone or something would eventually crack? All I can think of is fire alarms, you know, in buildings. But that's only part glass, and it's more, you know, rectangle, 3D rectangle, rather than a cube.
Bill:
It's a cracked cuboid of a fire alarm that wasn't properly maintained.
And next to it is a pile of ash, and there's a guy who stands next to it, and he says, "That's little Jimmy! That's little Jimmy who didn't fix his fire alarms! He didn't do the work, and now he's— Because of this cracked cuboid, he's dead!
Just like you Tom Scott! Tom Scott!"
Tom:
We've got a lot of callbacks this episode! A lot of callbacks!
Bill:
I'm a cuboid. What am I doing? What am I next to? Get into the mindset of a glass cuboid.
Eglė:
I'm a little cuboid, short and stout.
Bill:
Short and stout. My picture of a glass cuboid is a chemistry sort of thing, like a cuvette to do gas chromatography testing on. But I imagine this isn't an artwork about gas chromatography testing.
Dani:
Typically, I believe the glass cuboids involved in this would have been bigger than that.
Bill:
Size of a fist.
Dani:
I can't remember the dimensions exactly, but... you know, they had some substance to them. But, and honestly, I think trying to think of real world glass cuboids that it might be is going to send you down a difficult path.
Eglė:
Okay.
Bill:
Okay, okay.
Dani:
This is the more contrived part of the artwork, I'd say.
Eglė:
Okay, 'cause I was thinking maybe it's like, you know, some perfume bottle and then cracked glass.
And then if it was rose-scented, there's actual rose next to it or something of that idea.
Bill:
I like that.
Because it's cracked, this is what made— gave me my first impression of like, is the other thing... the previous contents of the cuboid? It's been cracked to let something come out of it. And that is now on display next to the cracked cuboid.
Dani:
Quite the opposite.
Bill:
It is the exterior. It was the exterior of the cu— The cuboid has been extracted from the other object.
Tom:
It was a Damien Hirst artwork that was filled with formaldehyde and a dead animal.
And now it's just got a lake of formaldehyde next to it, because the cuboid has been cracked.
Dani:
(cackles)
Bill:
The animal's escaped! The shark's out for blood!
Dani:
That is the other interesting side of this. So yeah, we're on the idea of the other thing is exterior rather than interior.
And the thing is... about the glass being cracked, what's going on with that?
And what I would tell you about that is... this artist, Wally Beshte, he didn't just go, "Alright, I'm going to take this glass cuboid, and for my purposes, smash, smash, smash, done." That is not what happened here.
Bill:
It's a tin man, and next to him is his little cuboid heart.
Dani:
Don't think too hard about the glass cuboid. But do just think about big recta— big rectangular prism.
Bill:
I got a prism. I got a...
Dani:
What might— What are you pulling it out of perhaps?
Bill:
(squicks) A coffin.
Tom:
A camera, a TV.
Bill:
A TV.
Tom:
A thing... (sighs)
Bill:
Just a slightly larger rectangular prism.
Dani:
Keep going, tell me.
Bill:
A slightly larger rectangular prism.
Dani:
Okay, no, don't keep exaggerating it.
Bill:
Even bigger one!
Tom:
(laughs)
Dani:
But yes.
Tom:
It's rectangular prisms all the way down.
Dani:
It is rectangular prisms all the way down, but just one.
Bill:
Extracted from another thing that is...
Dani:
Very simple. People deal with... People deal with these exteriors every day, constantly.
Bill:
You said simple, just, and I was going to say a hypercube. And we're going dimensionally downwards.
Dani:
This is difficult to describe, but yeah.
The glass cuboid part is the more symbolic part of it. The exterior is the more normal part of it.
Bill:
Oh, I wouldn't take anything out of the die that I'm suddenly holding up. I just have a rectangular prism next to it.
Tom:
A mobile phone screen. Not a cuboid. That's more of a flat panel.
Dani:
Even more normal than that.
Bill:
What's the most normal cuboid?
Dani:
What is—
Tom:
How— Who— Who normally comes across—
Eglė:
Glasses?
Bill:
Normal cuboid in your house.
Dani:
It may not be in your house right now, but statistically throughout the country, throughout the world, oh boy. There are a zillion of these things right now.
Bill:
The glass is an artistic choice. The real object, the real cuboid that we all know and love, that exists in all of our lives, is not glass.
Tom:
If you say it was in our hearts all along, I swear!
Bill:
No, it's in our homes all along, and we should all—
Eglė:
Oh, so the glass isn't even—
Bill:
I think the glass doesn't exist in the real world.
Dani:
It's artistically important. It is realistically not important.
Bill:
The glass is a symbol. The object that is also a cuboid is...
Tom:
A book.
Bill:
Is a thing, a book.
Eglė:
Is it a carton box to symbolise—
Tom:
A phone. Oh?
Dani:
Eglė, it's...
Eglė:
A carton box to symbolise crashed... you know, fragile goods in delivery or something like that?
Dani:
The exteriors are FedEx boxes.
Bill:
Oh, I know this!
Tom:
What?!
Bill:
I know this thing! He sends them! He sen— He ships—
Eglė:
Oh, yes!
Bill:
He ships the glass box to every—
Like, when they move the exhibit, he literally just puts the glass box in a FedEx box, sends it, and as it travels the world and as the exhibit moves, it gets more and more cracked from being poorly handled by FedEx people.
Eglė:
Yes.
Bill:
And it's just showing this thing gradually deteriorate through time, as it travels and gets manhandled and isn't cared for.
Dani:
Absolutely.
Tom:
Wow!
Bill:
I know! I've heard of this!
Dani:
Yeah, you've absolutely got it. That's what is going on there.
It's showcasing exactly what happens on one of these journeys.
And so the cardboard box... it says— it's got its FedEx labels. It's got all of the labels from the journey it's undertaken as it's travelled the world.
And the glass box... all of the people who have handled it through its journey don't realise that they're participating in the art with their clumsiness.
Eglė:
Now, this is the kind of modern art I can approve of.
Tom:
I really like art like that.
Dani:
Absolutely.
Tom:
It's exactly my sort of Olafur Eliasson, any kind of big participatory stuff. It's, ah, yep.
One last thing in this show, then. At the start, I asked the audience:
What's the unique selling point of an Asian brand of bottled water called DMZ[ee] or DMZ[ed] 2km?
Anyone want to take a quick shot at that?
Dani:
I only have one idea for what DMZ stands for in my head, especially in relation to Asia.
Tom:
And it's probably right.
Bill:
Demilitarized zone in...
Eglė:
Ohh.
Tom:
Demilitarized zone.
Dani:
That's where I go.
Tom:
Yes, so what—
Dani:
So is it two kilometers deep into the DMZ? Or something like that?
Tom:
Yes, it is sourced from an area inside the demilitarized zone that has been untouched by humans for decades.
Dani:
Well, they got the water somehow.
Tom:
Yes. (snickers)
Bill:
They touched it.
Tom:
The 2 km in the name is the distance between the natural spring itself and the bottling plant. Which presumably is not in the demilitarized zone.
Bill:
One should hope.
Dani:
That's a daring job that you take on.
Tom:
That is our show. Thank you very much to all our players.
We will start, Eglė, what's going on with you? Where can people find you?
Eglė:
You can just find me on Twitter at @catnipiswise. Other than that... nothing special.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
Other than question producing for I don't know where, but they'll turn up somewhere.
Eglė:
Yeah.
Tom:
Dani, we'll go to you first for the Escape This Podcast plug.
Dani:
Yeah, you can find us at escapethispodcast.com, or just Google it. We try to make ourselves very Googleable with easy names, so, "escape room podcast" should do the trick as well.
Tom:
And Bill, what sort of things can people find there?
Bill:
Oh, you can find audio escape rooms with fun guests like Tom Scott and David Bodycombe, the producer of Lateral, bein' fun wizard hunters.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Bill:
We have guests on every episode to play through audio escape rooms, and it's a great fun time.
Tom:
If you want to know more about this show, or send in your own idea for a question, you can do that at lateralcast.com. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and you can catch video highlights multiple times a week at youtube.com/lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Eglė Vaškevičiūtė.
Eglė:
Thank you for having me.
Tom:
To Dani Siller.
Dani:
Thank you so much.
Tom:
To Bill Sunderland.
Bill:
Thank you, it was fantastic.
Dani:
Cuboids forever!
Tom:
I've been—
Bill:
Cuboids!
Dani:
Cubes, famous cubes!
SFX:
(scattered giggling)
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that has been the Famous Cube episode of Lateral.
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