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Episode 189: Sleep-inducing hangers
22nd May, 2026 • Davina Bentley, Ed Patrick and Stuart Laws face questions about feline fatalities, Portland park picnics and devious deliveries.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
How do cats die twice when travelling from the UK to Spain?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Modern computer science works on a backbone of binary data. Every image, every video, every podcast, every piece of music can be turned into true or false, on or off, one or zero.
Let me introduce you to three other people capable of turning everything into a bit. They are all taking shows to the Edinburgh Fringe this year. They are all well-known figures on the professional comedy circuit.
We start with Stuart Laws. Welcome back to the show.
Stuart:
It's a pleasure to be back here, and I will be aiming to provide gigabits.
Tom:
Oh, that's good. That's good. (laughs)
Stuart:
That's my aim. Or one point, what was it? 1.21 gigawatts?
Tom:
I cannot remember the reference well enough.
Stuart:
That specific amount. But it was fun to hear it pronounced 'jig-a'.
Tom:
It was, it was. You should plug the show. 'Cause it's rare that I don't have to improvise as much banter, because everyone here has got a show to plug. Do you know what you're doing at the Fringe yet?
Stuart:
Oh yeah, yeah. I'm doing a show called Late Night with Stuart Laws, and it's different every single night. Who knows what will happen?
Tom:
Do we have dates and times for it yet, or is it...
Stuart:
It's the first 12 days, basically.
Tom:
Okay.
Stuart:
I don't really remember.
Tom:
(laughs)
Stuart:
It's at 11:30. It's at the Tron. And you know, one of the nights will be "Stuart Laws correctly identifies 100 Revels or your money back." That is definitely locked in.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Stuart:
We don't know what the others are gonna be yet.
Tom:
I have no idea if Revels come up in the questions today, but I suspect they won't. Good luck to you on the show today.
Stuart:
Thank you.
Tom:
You are joined by two brand new players to Lateral. Davina Bentley, we'll go to you first. Welcome to the show.
Davina:
Thanks so much for having me. I'm terrified but excited.
Tom:
(chuckles) This is not really the kind of standard comedy panel show that comedians get invited on, but thank you for braving it anyway.
Davina:
You're very welcome. Yes, I also have an Edinburgh show coming to the Pleasance. It's gonna be on every day at 5:30 at the Cellar. It's called Dancing While Old. It's about being old. But still dancing.
Tom:
Now, as someone who is in his 40s and increasingly grumpy about it, there is no way you count as that yet. Congratulations.
Davina:
I mean, no, I am in my 40— I'm 42. And... Yes, I'm old, but I look younger, but I feel old, but I feel very young, and it's a lot feelings, and all of these things will be sort of discussed and looked at in a hilarious and exciting way in my Edinburgh show.
Tom:
Excellent plugging work there. Well done. Last player today, welcome to the show: Someone who said he was just extremely tired right now. Ed Patrick, welcome to Lateral.
Ed:
Hello. I'm really awake right now. It's a fantastic time. Yeah, thank you very much. Very excited to be on the show and to see what new facts and things I can find out, tease out of my brain maybe.
Tom:
I do have you listed here as Dr. Ed Patrick.
Ed:
I mean, to be honest, a lot of people call themselves doctor, and then you have to really ask. "Are you really a doctor?" basically these days. But I am really a doctor. So I'm an anaesthetist working in hospital, whilst also juggling with comedy too. So I have a great access to a supply of laughing gas, which funds both worlds.
Tom:
(laughs)
Stuart:
Can I ask some questions?
Tom:
Are they about some lymph nodes that are showing a bit wrong here?
Davina:
Yeah, are they're diagnostic? Because that's...
Stuart:
I want to know if there is such thing as an 'esthetist'.
Davina:
Ooh?
Ed:
An esthetist? Oh, as opposed to an 'ana-esthetist'?
Stuart:
Yes.
Ed:
Mm. Never heard of that.
Stuart:
And what would that be?
Tom:
I don't know, but I'm now tasking Producer David, – in the time that Ed has to plug the show – I am tasking Producer David to look at a dictionary and find that out. Ed, where's the show?
Ed:
So my show, I'm doing a short run at the end of Fringe. I'm doing, I think it's the 7th to the 16th at the Gilded Balloon with a day off in between. 'Cause I like to have a little bit of time off. And I'm doing— working on a new show. It's a work in progress called Numb and Number.
Tom:
Oh, that's good.
Ed:
Thank you.
Tom:
Okay. I am reliably informed that 'anaesthesia' comes from 'an-', without, and 'aesthesia', meaning sensation. So that probably formed first, but...
Ed:
Get in!
Tom:
But I guess an aesthetist would be like a hedonist, I think, sensation seeking.
Stuart:
Or it could be a neurodiverse person with sensory issues.
Tom:
It could, it could. Well, on this show, I'd be shocked(!)
SFX:
(Stuart and Davina laugh)
Ed:
But surely... someone, you know, who says, "Oh, I don't feel anything", you want to see an aesthetist, don't you?
Tom:
Yeah.
Ed:
Not an anaesthetist.
Stuart:
Yeah.
Ed:
An aesthetist, to kind of, "I want, you know, to feel things again."
Stuart:
Is that not a drug dealer?
Tom:
(blurts laugh) Yeah, there we go!
Stuart:
That's a therapist, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom:
Well, good luck to all three of you on the show today. Let's see if we can feel something with question one.
Thank you to Katie Waning for this question.
Katie sent her friends a message with a picture of two suitcases saying, "I lost both of these bags". Why was this met with congratulations?
I'll say that again.
Katie sent her friends a message with a picture of two suitcases saying, "I lost both of these bags". Why was this met with congratulations?
Stuart:
My initial thought went towards bags – oh, they've had their undereye bags removed. But then you repeated it. I realised I'd forgot. I'd just not listened to the first part, where you say suitcases.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Davina:
Picture of two suitcases. No, but it did— but both of these— it was referred to as both. It was the picture of two suitcases. Lost them. So yeah, maybe— Is it— was— is it a bleph— underbleph? Is that right, Ed?
Stuart:
Is that what it's called?
Davina:
Isn't it? I mean, I'm online a lot looking at a lot of celebrities and... what they've had done and not done.
Ed:
I think that, well, I think this is— there's a confusion here between aesthetics and anaesthetics. So that would anaesthetic medicine.
Davina:
Oh, but surely the broad knowledge!
Ed:
So I mean, you get bags under the eyes as part of your NHS contract.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ed:
But I don't— I'm not sure that— I'm not sure what the procedure is actually, but that seems like a good theory. I was thinking that it was an airline mistake. (cracks up)
Tom:
(laughs)
Davina:
I've lo— But you'd be crossed if both— they'd lost both of your bags at an airline. You'd be livid. Unless the insurance money.
Stuart:
Yes.
Ed:
Well, exactly, yeah.
Stuart:
I got a flight delayed once. And I didn't have to be home for anything. And under EU law, I got like 500 quid or something for it. And, they said, "Just send in your receipts, and you can claim that." And they also then paid off all of the receipts that I sent in for the hotel, for everything. So I basically got almost a grand for just going home a day later.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Ed:
Did you by any chance send a picture to Katie saying, "Lost both of these bags"?
Stuart:
(snickers)
Davina:
Okay, yeah.
Tom:
You are right, Stuart, that it is a different use of the word 'bags'. And certainly kind of...
Stuart:
What else is there?
Tom:
Medical and body stuff, actually kind of the right way to go here.
Ed:
So have you hit it on the head already then?
Tom:
Oh, not on the head, no, no. But certainly like...
Ed:
Okay.
Tom:
If you're swinging the hammer around you, you've hit a nearby nail. Just not necessarily—
Davina:
Is she referring to her boobs as bags? 'Cause I just think that's unacceptable, guys.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Davina:
Unacceptable. And I can't believe that has even been raised—
Stuart:
Bag for life.
Davina:
Bag for life. Two— A couple of bags of for life.
Stuart:
Yeah, yeah.
Davina:
Or not. If of course—
Tom:
Closer.
Stuart:
(gasps)
Davina:
Bags. Just going through the old bags, bags, ball. It's a reference— no.
Tom:
Don't forget. She's getting congratulations here.
Ed:
Oh, could it— Oh, it could be... childbirth, having twins? I mean, I don't know how there are bags. You know, amniotic sacs? Is that a sac? Amniotic sac? Two sacks?
Davina:
"Lost a couple of amniotic sacs." "Oh, well congratulations Katie."
Stuart:
You know what I'm like.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Davina:
So it is body. See, it was right with it being close to the body. It's something— Guys, quick look at your bodies.
Tom:
What might you be congratulated for losing?
Davina:
Now I keep thinking of baby. Sorry.
Tom:
(laughs) If I tell you the picture of the two suitcases was not her with the suitcases. It was from an airline website.
Davina:
So it's like Ryanair, EasyJet.
Tom:
Yeah, that—
Davina:
The name is related to the body part?
Tom:
No, no, just, just why might there be bags on an airline website? What might be—
Stuart:
Excess baggage. Oh, right. Is it like a liposuction sort of thing?
Davina:
Or the skin after losing fat? So for excess baggage?
Tom:
You're both thinking way more invasive. You're basically there. But you don't normally give someone congratulations for a surgery.
Davina:
I do. That's where you're wrong.
Tom:
(laughs) Okay, I stand corrected.
Davina:
I am the first one to say congratulations on your rhinoplasty.
SFX:
(guys laugh in turn)
Davina:
So it's not a surgery.
Tom:
It's not a surgery.
Davina:
Had something removed, but it's not surgical?
Tom:
Lost.
Davina:
Oh, you've lost weight.
Tom:
Yes!
Davina:
You've just lost weight.
Tom:
Yes.
Davina:
Oh, duh. You've lost weight. Sorry.
Tom:
And so why those two bags? Why that picture off an airline website?
Stuart:
She lost that amount of weight?
Tom:
She lost that amount of weight.
Stuart:
Wow!
Tom:
She lost 31 kilos. That is 23 kilos for the checked bag, 8 kilos for the carry-on. That is the maximum weight you can take on a plane. And her whole message said: "I remember how much I complained when I once carried the heaviest allowed bags through the airport. And I have now lost both of them."
Stuart:
Wow.
Davina:
That's amazing.
Ed:
She could argue for an extra checked bag at the next flight, surely.
Tom:
(laughs) That is... I remember there being a lot of controversy about that. I know there was some airline that threatened to weigh passengers on check-in.
Davina:
Yeah, I think there was a lot of sort of uploaded stuff around people being like, "Well, my space was constricted becaue the person next to me", it's a tricky—
Ed:
Can I just say that I— This has brought back memories. I did lose a bag actually, on a certain, let's just say, it's a 'peasy jet' flight.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ed:
It was traumatic.
Tom:
Oh, yeah.
Ed:
'Cause, yeah. I was going to a snow-filled area, and I was wearing like T-shirt and shorts, and all my warm stuff was in there. So, it was a tough time.
Stuart:
But where were you coming from to get to the ski at? Why were you in summer clothes?
Ed:
Because I wear shorts all the time, Stuart. I mean...
Stuart:
Ah, you're one of those.
Ed:
(reveals shorts)
Davina:
Oh, hello.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Ed:
Look.
Stuart:
Wow.
Ed:
(toward shirt) This is just for show, but the real deal is down—
Tom:
Fun fact. Just Union Jack boxers on under here. I never bother wearing trousers for these calls. Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We'll start today with Ed.
Ed:
So this question has been sent in by Nate. So:
While studying fake medical treatments, what valuable discovery did psychologist Dan Ariely make about the placebo effect?
So:
While studying fake medical treatments, what valuable discovery did psychologist Dan Ariely make about the placebo effect?
Tom:
Up until Ed said "placebo effect" in that question, I was sure the answer was, "Oh, he discovered the placebo effect!" No, that's not.
SFX:
(guests chuckling)
Tom:
Unfortunately, I think I do know this one, so I'm gonna leave this one to Stuart and Davina.
Stuart:
Right, hang on. So this lad Ariely... was doing a bit of experimenting. He found the placebo effect, but he also found something else?
Ed:
He found something about it. Yeah. So, so you think... So what do you know about the placebo effect?
Stuart:
That if... well, like prayer works, as long as you know that you're being prayed for.
Tom:
As long as you believe it basically, right?
Davina:
Or you don't know, surely. It's the control group, and then the group that don't know they're getting a placebo. So isn't it, as long as you don't know that you're in the placebo group.
Stuart:
Oh yeah. Well maybe that's implying a different thing. But like if you're told that you are being prayed for, you feel the benefits of it in the same way that if you are given a drug, even if it's a sugar pill, you... and are told that it's good, you will feel better, right? You'll have some sort of feeling of improvement. And so what did he discover? Oh, did he discover that like, the more dramatic the intervention, the greater the placebo effect?
Ed:
You're getting along the right lines. So you've picked up, the placebo effect is obviously where they feel a benefit from it, and the patients believed they were receiving something, or people believe they're receiving something. But there was one thing that's changed about it that seemed to make the treatment work.
Davina:
Is it the narrative around it? Like the, I can't remember what you call it, the orchestra, the theatre of... like the performance of the placebo, the being seen to do the sort of medical procedures. I think maybe this is like
Stuart:
Almost.
Davina:
in Ben Goldacre's book. It's something about the narrative of medicine. It's like... (grunts) Sorry, I'm trying to remember, it's some—
Ed:
You're getting— You're actually along the right lines. So if you think about this, think about this in your day-to-day life, so if you were looking for things and... things that you do to make yourself feel better, can you think of any sort of examples of a placebo effect where it might not actually make any difference rationally, but...
Davina:
Oh, like good luck. Like I step on two... If I see two pavements together, I step on them for luck.
Tom:
Is that— I thought that was bad luck.
Davina:
It's a self— It's self-folklore.
Stuart:
It's your own, yeah, your own folklore.
Davina:
It's folklore for my own sort of folkloric tradition.
Tom:
Right, I stand corrected. Not gonna argue with someone's own traditions.
Davina:
You cannot.
Stuart:
What if you don't do anything to make yourself feel better ever?
Tom:
That's such a bleak question.
Stuart:
I don't– I can't think of anything I'd do to make—
Ed:
If you were unwell, let's say, what... Think of anything you particularly—
Davina:
Ginger and orange. Things that perhaps—
Ed:
Okay, so take that ginger and orange, then. Let's take that ginger and orange. What things might you do?
Stuart:
Inject it.
Ed:
Yeah, yeah. Quite.
Davina:
Yeah.
Ed:
And is there anything different?
Tom:
One of my favourite placebo effect stories – and this is why I'm keeping quiet here – one of my favourite stories is that injections do work better as placebos
Stuart:
Yes.
Tom:
than taking the pill. There's also, I think, the story— And this is one of those stories that might not have survived replication crisis and double checking, but there was a wonderful story that red placebos for antidepressants are better than blue ones... apart from in Italy in men, because the Italian football team plays in blue. Now, is that true, or is that one study that's been quoted outta context? Couldn't tell you. Good story. But if I'm right, Ed, this is something along those lines, right?
Ed:
So, if you take what Tom has said, what other things could you apply that to... about certain treatments?
Davina:
Football, to just...
Ed:
But what sort of things would make you change your perception of that treatment?
Davina:
Whether the doctor's wearing a white coat? No, genuinely, like the presentation of it.
Ed:
Let's go back to your ginger— What was it? Ginger and...?
Davina:
Ginger and orange. When you have the flu or cold.
Ed:
Would it make a difference about where you got it from?
Davina:
Yeah, maybe if you got it from
Stuart:
Backstreet.
Davina:
the pharmacy. The Backstreet Boys, yeah.
Tom:
(laughs)
Stuart:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Davina:
Who I get my ginger from.
Ed:
And what would be the big difference there, do you think?
Davina:
The more expensive or the more medically associated it was. Say it was for the pharmacy or the GP, the more I believe in it, I guess. Whereas if I'd made it to myself.
Tom:
I'm hoping that's right, because there was a key word in the question that clued me in here.
Ed:
Yep. So you actually hit the nail on the head.
So he said, that what he found was that the more expensive placebos work better than the cheaper ones. And this is quite an interesting phenomenon across the board. We all do it, whether it's, you know, stuff like ginger tea and things like that.
But also, if you look at— I mean, one for me that pops out is that when you go to the supermarket, you've got a cough cold, which I've had, you see all the array of cough cold medicines, and you've got the expensive ones at the top. They're all like 10 quid, 12 quid. And they all contain ibuprofen and paracetamol or a mixture of those two.
Yet you look at the bottom, you've got exactly the same medications, exactly the same doses. You can read the labels, and they're pennies compared to it, but people will buy those thinking that they spent more money and therefore the placebo effect of that could help 'em in that way. So it does still continue today.
So Dan and his colleagues ran some experiments, looking at how the expectations influenced the placebo effect. In one study, they were giv— the participants were given what they believed was a pain relief drug, was actually a placebo. And some were told that the pill cost $2.50, while the others had been told it had been discounted to 10 cents. And even though the pills were identical, the expensive version relieved pain significantly more often. So, it suggests that value is influencing the medical outcomes through expectation.
And this is— it is often cited in behavioural economics as well.
Tom:
Thank you to Jagan for this question.
In 2019, the owner of a Manhattan pizzeria began ordering batches of 10 pizzas from his own restaurant. Later, he ordered nothing but plain dough. Why?
I'll say that again.
In 2019, the owner of a Manhattan Pizzeria began ordering batches of 10 pizzas from his own restaurant. Later he ordered nothing but plain dough. Why?
Ed:
Well, I mean, the plain dough has gotta be cheaper, for one. But... I dunno, I mean, maybe it was a—
Stuart:
He's trying to put a lid on them. On each pizza. That's it. He's just, he's gone, "Get the plain dough over. I've got the 10 pizzas, now I've got the dough. I can build a lid... and hide the secret of the pizza."
Tom:
(chuckles)
Davina:
In the dough, in a box he's made of dough?
Stuart:
In a box of dough. Yes. There you go. He's building a box of dough.
Ed:
Is this where the calzone was invented?
Davina:
in Manhattan in 2019? Famously.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Davina:
That's what they always say. My first thought was if you order pizza, you're ordering pizza from a restaurant you own. Aren't you just testing your product, like a secret shopper, but for yourself? If I understood correctly, your order— you own a restaurant, it's yours, and now you're ordering pizzas from that restaurant.
Tom:
Yes, that's right.
Stuart:
He just loves his own gear.
Davina:
He loves his own gear. Maybe he wants to check his own gear. Hasn't gone down since he scaled up. He maybe wants to check—
Ed:
I mean, I've watched Goodfellas and stuff like that. And you know, it could be a little bit of, you know, back streak financial, you know... You keep the sales of the dough up, you know, just gonna buy a bunch of those.
Stuart:
It could be that, right? Couldn't it be for like, if it's for like a deliver for all of the disruptor companies, like, GrubHub. What are the other ones over there? Uber Eats?
Davina:
Sorry, I don't understand. How would that work?
Ed:
You'd set up a brand against your own brand in order to deliver pizzas and therefore make people think that they were buying from a competitor, but they weren't. They were actually the same producer and supplier. And he set it all up, and therefore, you know, you've got two brands competing, but you're buying from the same person.
Davina:
So he is driving up competition artificially, which is illegal!
Stuart:
Yeah.
Tom:
(laughs)
Davina:
It is. We've got antitrust laws. Yeah.
Stuart:
Not worth doing in Manhattan where there are already a lot of rival pizza companies.
Tom:
Yeah, Stuart, part of that's right. It was via DoorDash, which is one of the American delivery ones.
Stuart:
DoorDash! The old classic.
Tom:
Yes.
Stuart:
And so that was to push it up the algorithm?
Tom:
Not in this case.
Davina:
Oh, to review it. He wanted to receive it so he could review it and give it a really good review. And I guess you can only do that if you're a DoorDash customer, presumably.
Tom:
You wouldn't need 10 pizzas.
Davina:
I would.
Tom:
You wouldn't need 10 pizzas to do that though. And Stuart, unfortunately, The multiple chains thing is a thing that companies do, particularly in the US, but again, you wouldn't order 10 pizzas to yourself for that.
Davina:
Sorry. Is the 10 pizzas being ordered in succession, as opposed to one go? It's sort of 10 instances of DoorDashing his own restaurant?
Tom:
It wouldn't make a difference in this case. I think it'd be a single order for 10.
Davina:
Okay.
Stuart:
So why, what's the significance of the 10? That— Is that significant? Or are we DoorDashing down the wrong alley?
Tom:
(snickers) Good metaphor. Gonna go with DoorDashing down the wrong alley there. I would suspect that 10 might even be the maximum you could order.
Davina:
So you order 10 pieces. It's weird that the dough is just an option on the Door— So I imagine DoorDash app is like Uber.
Tom:
Mhm.
Davina:
That's weird. 'Cause it's not like when we order from Domino's or Pizza Hut.
Tom:
Yeah, that's not a normal option there.
Ed:
But when you order from McDonald's, you can order a burger and strip away everything apart from a slice of cheese.
Stuart:
But you can't order the burger raw, can you?
Davina:
But you could strip away— I agree with Ed that, you know, there is a thing when you are like, do you wanna take off the marinara sauce? Do you wanna take off the cheese? Maybe he's done it via that way to reveal the cooked dough? He wants to taste the base?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Stuart:
Hmm. I feel like we should start offering this as comedians.
Tom:
Yeah.
Stuart:
That people can strip away variety. You know, you go, "I just want the setups, if that's okay."
Davina:
I would love that.
Tom:
Yeah, he was ordering pizza dough with no toppings. Absolutely right.
Davina:
That is setup, no punchline.
Stuart:
Uncooked, uncooked.
Tom:
I dunno if it was uncooked or not. Wouldn't really have made a difference. Might've helped even more if it was uncooked, to be honest.
Stuart:
Hmm.
Tom:
Also, Stuart, I wanna pick up on a word you said, which was 'disruptors'.
Stuart:
Yes.
Tom:
This is 2019 DoorDash here.
Stuart:
Oh, so he's got some discounts. Okay, so this is why you should always use these venture capitalist sort of setup things. But you should use them when they first start and use all of their discount codes and then stop using them. So basically when they come in, they undercut everyone around to basically disrupt the market. And then once they put other people outta business, they then jack up the prices. So he's taking advantage of the DoorDash discounts at the time to order all of his pizzas cheaper than they actually cost, and then reselling them.
Tom:
Yes. Very, very close. I think Ed was about to just kick a thing.
Ed:
So he's— Yeah.
Tom:
So he's buying the dough, as Stuart said,
Ed:
because the discount means that the dough is cheaper than what he purchased it for. So he's kind of making a profit from buying his own back at a cheaper rate and then being able to use it again.
Tom:
Yes. Almost. I'll give you that. That is close enough. And I'm not—
Stuart:
How can we be any closer?
Tom:
Well, DoorDash was undercutting his own restaurant.
Davina:
Oh wow, okay, yeah.
Tom:
So on the menu... the price was about $24 for a pizza. The DoorDash listing set up without his permission offered the pizzas for $16. Which meant that he could order a pizza from himself thru DoorDash, pay DoorDash $16, and receive more than $16 from DoorDash. So that was an arbitrage opportunity there.
Davina:
Oh, so it's like gaming— He game the system.
Tom:
Yes. Absolutely.
Davina:
Is that what arbitrage is? In pizza formation?
Tom:
Yeah. (chuckles) I think that's kind of what arbitrage is in most situations. Like yep, there is a ch— Someone is selling a thing for less than I can sell it for. It's just I happen to be both people here.
Ed:
Can I just say, what a sweet deal for the drivers that must be.
Tom:
Right?
Ed:
You know. I'm gonna pick it up and, oh, I'm— I've already delivered.
Tom:
Yeah.
Ed:
My quota is done.
Tom:
Davina, whenever you're ready. Your question please.
Davina:
When staying in hotels, Josh often takes a particular hanger from the wardrobe to help him get a good night's sleep. Why?
When staying in hotels, Josh often takes a particular hangar from the wardrobe to help him get a good night's sleep. Why?
Ed:
So, I feel like this feels like a security thing. Because you're in a hotel, it's in a unfamiliar environment, and... We've all been there, we've all been in a hotel where it's felt a little bit dodge.
Stuart:
How'd you know? How do you know that?
Tom:
Comedians on the road. Almost certainly.
Stuart:
Yeah.
Tom:
You'll have all ended up at a gig somewhere where the only hotel's a really dodgy place nearby.
Davina:
Yeah, we've all played hot water. Yeah.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Stuart:
(snickers)
Ed:
I've been— I've stayed at a hotel where I then came back, it was after a wedding, and I went in, and I thought, where's my car key? Everything else was there. Where's my car key? I looked out the window, and the car was gone. Someone had broken into the hotel room and a whole bunch of the hotel rooms, and just taken car keys.
Tom:
Wow.
Ed:
But the real— you know the real crap thing about it was that, the hotel was at a motorway service station. So there was no way to leave!
Tom:
Oh no.
Ed:
I was stuck on the motorway.
SFX:
(both chuckling)
Davina:
That's a horror film.
Ed:
It was a right pain. It was, yeah. It was a danger, right.
Davina:
That's horrific.
Ed:
Anyway, so I'm— well, I've got the feelings for this one, so maybe, I dunno. Did the hanger go as a sort of "do not disturb", or did it go on the handle to kind of prevent, you know, so that you could hear if someone was opening the door? That was the only other thing.
Davina:
You are correct. You're correct in that—
Ed:
I am?
Davina:
No, no. Sorry. Shouldn't have...
Tom:
(laughs)
Davina:
(giggles) Sorry.
Ed:
I wrote this question.
Davina:
You were correct in that another use for the hangar is the answer. It's not security related, but it does relate to using the hangar to do... using the hangar to do something else in the room. It may not be securing the door.
Ed:
Self-gratification or...
Davina:
Why was that the first thing... That's extraordinary that the first thing is security, and the second thing is self-gratification. It's like the hierarchy of men.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Ed:
It's a hotel! That's a hotel, isn't it?
Tom:
Yeah, you see a Maslow's hierarchy there. You really are.
Davina:
Really so different being a woman. It's just security, security, security the whole way down.
Tom:
Okay.
Ed:
I dunno. Me and Stuart, we just go to hotels and just look at the hangers.
Stuart:
Yeah.
Tom:
I was thinking, you said particular hanger. Now, there are two types of hangers in hotels. You have the normal triangular ones you hang a shirt off, but you also have those ones with little clips on, that you can attach trousers or something. And I wonder if it is a particular hangar, it's gotta be that style or something special about the hangar.
Davina:
That's it, Tom.
Stuart:
Okay.
Davina:
That's exactly the right path that you were meant to be DoorDashing down.
Stuart:
Did he hang up a towel across the window? 'cause the curtains weren't working? The curtains weren't working. They just—
Davina:
That's so— It's so the right track without it being exactly it. It's like the track and you were really—
Ed:
Oh, I know what you mean! So, the curtains weren't closing fully, so therefore he used the hangar to close 'em fully so he can get a good night's sleep.
Davina:
That's exactly right. That was— I feel like that was an assist. That was a cross from Stuart. This is football speak. And then Ed headed it right in.
Stuart:
Yeah, that was nice.
Davina:
That was beautiful.
Ed:
Take the glory.
Davina:
You guys were— You were so near it, so early on. It was quite shocking.
Ed:
With the self-gratification thing?
Tom:
(laughs)
Davina:
Exactly, I was like, well, it's one step from masturbation, and they're there.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Ed:
I mean, he did have to shut the curtains.
Tom:
And make sure that even the little crack of light in the middle was covered by presumably a hanger and a towel.
Davina:
Well, you don't need the towel.
Tom:
Do you not?
Stuart:
Oh, they're using the clip to bring them together.
Tom:
Ohhh!
Ed:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom:
Oh, I hadn't made that connection. I thought he was hanging something up.
Davina:
Are you using a towel in your sort of hypothetical scenario to fit, to physically fill the gap?
Tom:
I've stayed in so many cheap hotel rooms where the curtains do not completely close, and there's light in the morning, and I have never, ever thought to do that.
Stuart:
Yeah, yeah. It's good stuff. I stayed in a hotel in Swansea that was £26 for the night, and it was lowest ranked for value for money. That was the lowest ranking.
Tom:
Wow.
Stuart:
On booking.com.
Davina:
How was it?
Stuart:
It wasn't value for money.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Stuart:
Yeah. But I made it through the night.
Tom:
Thank you to Samuel Kerr for this next question.
Three friends agree to meet at a local park in Portland, Oregon for a picnic. When they arrive, they find they are unable to set out their picnic blanket. Why?
I'll say that again.
Three friends agree to meet at a local park in Portland, Oregon for a picnic. When they arrive, they find they are unable to set out their picnic blanket. Why?
Davina:
Because there's so many trees. It's Oregon. But I suppose that's a forest, that's not a park. A park's cleared.
Ed:
I've got a real left-field entry into this, is that one of my favorite bands is a band called Fidlar, F-I-D-L-A-R, and they do a song called "West Coast". And in it, they talk about going to Portland. And then they say, "but you can't buy liquor in Oregon".
And I don't know if that's something that is like a wi— just a lyric, or whether that is something, 'cause they've got booze, and therefore you're not allowed to drink it in public. So I'm gonna— I'm wondering if it's something to do with alcohol. Is it something to do with that?
Tom:
I've had to very quickly look this up. Oregon has apparently a monopoly, a government monopoly on selling alcohol?
Davina:
I guess it's like Sweden. Then you go to this— I have been to Portland, Oregon, but I don't think I must have bought booze there.
Stuart:
I've drunk in a bar in Portland, and yeah, but I guess once it gets to the bar, it's fine.
Davina:
But this is bar— I think buying, you know, like in Sweden you have to go to a special government shop. Do you know what I mean? It looks like a supermarket, but it's just booze and fags, I think.
Stuart:
I swear I have bought from a gas station over there.
Davina:
In Portland? Sorry, in Oregon?
Stuart:
No, in Oregon. Yeah, yeah.
Davina:
But then you're right, if it's statewide—
Tom:
No, apparently it is the Oregon Liquor and Cannabis Commission. Because they have expanded in recent years.
Ed:
So what's the rules then? You can't buy it from—
Tom:
You can buy in a licensed premises like a bar, but not from— but not as an off-license. So you can only buy from a bar or from government-run shops.
Ed:
So not a supermarket or anything?
Tom:
Nope, nope. There's a few places that do that.
Ed:
Wow. I've learned something from lyrics.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Tom:
Good lyric knowledge. Good Oregon knowledge. Not related to the question, I'm afraid.
Davina:
I was gonna say, because I go just to say that you had to buy booze from this special, you know, government shop. I dunno why that means that you can't lay down the picnic blanket.
Tom:
Mhm.
Davina:
So I think it must be something about, I didn't go to the park in Or— in Portland— I was about to say Portlandia, lol. But it basically was Portlandia. But I'm just trying to think, is it something about the... Like the, not the infrastructure, the layout of it. Is it something like—
Ed:
Wildlife?
Davina:
Well, yeah, like there were redwood. I'm trying to remember the drive. It was like, it was— they did have really beautiful stuff around it. 'Cause it still is Oregon.
Stuart:
Was it within the city limit? 'Cause I dunno if this is true for Portland, but because Seattle is built on top of Seattle, whether or not that park was structurally weak and that you're not allowed to put anything into the ground or something, if they were looking to... pin down their blanket, whether that would be an issue.
Tom:
I think Davina's right with layout.
Ed:
Is it bears?
Stuart:
It's gotta be bears.
Ed:
Well, I was just thinking if if there was like a bear or bear problems, then they wouldn't want you having picnics near there. But I dunno if Oregon has bears.
Stuart:
If they've got bear problems.
Davina:
Ohhh, nice. Bringing that London humour.
Tom:
(laughs)
Davina:
Oh, I assume you meant bear like...
Stuart:
Oh, yeah,
Davina:
Yeah, yeah.
Stuart:
Absolute bear problems over here. I got bear problems, but a bear ain't one.
Davina:
Yeah, very good.
Stuart:
Yeah. "I'm sorry, what?"
Davina:
(giggles profusely)
Stuart:
Americans just, "Sorry, what did you say?" "I said I got bear problems."
Davina:
But a bear ain't one. You heard me, and I shan't do it again.
Tom:
I would still be on the layout of the park here.
Davina:
Okay, sorry, sorry! We got a really good cute. I was like, no, bears!
Stuart:
Bear problems here.
Davina:
A layout. You can't— something is laid out in such a way that you cannot put your picnic blanket down, 'cause it's made of spikes. There are spikes everywhere.
Tom:
Oh, hostile architecture. Not in this case, but...
Stuart:
Oh, I was gonna say, because there is a lot— there is a homeless issue in Portland.
Davina:
It's homeless spikes.
Stuart:
Yeah.
Davina:
Yeah, 'cause they do— They seem to have a massive fentanyl issue.
Ed:
Is is it a nature thing, rather than a man-made thing?
Tom:
I would go with man-made here.
Davina:
Yeah, so not homeless spikes?
Tom:
Not homeless spikes, but you're right—
Davina:
Is it along the lines of homeless spikes? Sorry, I just took what Stuart said and said it louder.
Tom:
(laughs)
Davina:
I've seen men.
Tom:
I was gonna say.
Stuart:
Pleasure to be on the receiving end. And you know what? It felt horrible.
Davina:
You absolutely loved it. He loved it. No, you liked it.
Stuart:
Oh, is it the fact that America, in their cities, their parks are just little bits of concrete with one tree?
Tom:
That's—
Stuart:
And that's it?
Tom:
I mean, you are very close to the photo I've got in front of me here. So keep—
Davina:
Your park is so (bleep), it's not a park.
Stuart:
Yeah, well, "Oh, we'll go to the park", and then you get there, and it is an absolute joke that you're like, sorry. This country's so big. You should fit more parks in.
Tom:
In theory though, you could still lay down your picnic blanket on a bit of concrete. This park was once world famous.
Davina:
'Cause it's doing this. The plates of the Earth.
Stuart:
It's a skate park.
Tom:
You're basically there with lump of concrete with one tree in the middle. I just need you to think a bit... smaller.
Davina:
It's one paving stone. That's all they have for a park. It's one slab.
Tom:
Yeah, you know what?
Stuart:
It's a statue.
Davina:
And it's too small. It's too small for your picnic blanket.
Tom:
Yep. This is Mill Ends Park in Portland, which was once the smallest park in the world, according to the Guinness Book of Records. It is two foot circle with, exactly as Stuart said, a single tree in the middle of it.
Ed:
I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what. Get to August. We'll charge 16 quid for people to come and watch us do a show in that.
Tom:
(cackles)
Ed:
Yeah.
Tom:
It was the world's smallest park until it was overtaken the quarter square metre Pocket Park in Japan.
Ed:
Blimey.
Davina:
Oh.
Tom:
Stuart, it is over to you.
Stuart:
Now, this question has been sent in by Hannah Williams. Thank you, Hannah.
Where would you regularly hear phrases like "hips and lips", "man hands", "duck tails", and "pockets", and what actions do they encourage?
So that's:
Where would you regularly hear phrases like "hips and lips", "man hands", "duck tails", and "pockets", and what actions do they encourage?
Davina:
Isn't duck tails like on an Etonian coat? Or in a—
Tom:
Oh, I don't know. I was thinking like the cartoon show.
Davina:
Oh, DuckTa— I did think that as well first, please, to be clear. But then I thought—
Tom:
Which says something about how much Disney has wound its way into my brain, that my first thought was not the literal tail feathers of a duck, but a cartoon show I grew up watching.
Davina:
Oh, sorry, I thought you meant the computer game based on it, which was so good.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Davina:
I spent so— on the Sega Mega— Was it Sega Mega Drive, or it was Game Boy? No, it was Game Boy.
Ed:
No, I thought we were talking about prison. (giggles) I was like, completely opposite. I was like, oh, hips and hands. Put your hands by your hips, sort of thing. But you know, when they were hosing people down in Shawshank Redemption. That kind of thing. I was thinking maybe that was a—
Davina:
Where's the lips? Hips, lips.
Ed:
Hips.
Davina:
It's quite sensual perhaps. (giggles) Quite a sexy prison.
Tom:
We are all starting to make hand gestures here. It does feel like it's somewhere to put your hands.
Davina:
Well, sort of like childish then, like a nursery school. I feel like you say to a child—
Ed:
Head, shoulders, knees, and toes?
Davina:
A little bit. Put your hands on your lips. And then I thought like, "lifetime on the hips, moment on the lips." But then duck— doesn't duck tail and pocket sound like tailoring?
Ed:
Yes, it does.
Davina:
Or morning suit, is that what you call it on the back of a posh suit?
Ed:
Is this— Are— Is this a sort of period reference question, Stuart? Is it like a certain time?
Stuart:
Yeah, I guess you could say it is a period reference in the sense that... everything is a period.
Tom:
(laughs)
Stuart:
So, to answer that question, no.
SFX:
(Davina and Ed laugh)
Davina:
What a polite no.
Stuart:
Ignore the thing you said.
Ed:
(chuckles)
Tom:
"Man hands" is throwing me off though. 'Cause all the other three feel like they're somewhere that you could be told to put your hands. But man hands is a...
Davina:
I call all my— all hands "man hands". Even my own.
Stuart:
Yeah, if they're wandering somewhere they don't belong.
Davina:
Yep. Or they're about to. Still, then it's a man hand. Manhandling, it feels.
Tom:
Mm.
Stuart:
You are in the territory, by the way. I don't want you to veer too far away from the territory you're in.
Ed:
Yeah, is it clothing, tailoring?
Stuart:
It's not clothing, no. I mean, you know.
Davina:
It's an accessory.
Stuart:
There is clothing involved at some point, but it's not the... overarching theme of it.
Davina:
Oh, it's the etiquette. Is it something to do with etiquette, like Edwardian etiquette? Like "Put your man on your hip, lip, man hands." Is it like Debrett's Etiquette of Men?
Ed:
When you're having like photos, like, tummy in, chest out kind of thing?
Tom:
Oh?
Ed:
Is it like a...
Stuart:
Now you're in that— you're in the right terr— You also mentioned sort of vaguely, roughly where this would happen as well... earlier. It was sort of, someone said it as an aside.
Ed:
Prison?
Stuart:
But who would this be said to?
Davina:
Men.
Stuart:
These sort of things.
Davina:
Gentlemen. Gentlemen. No?
Stuart:
No. I don't think so.
Davina:
Children?
Stuart:
Yes.
Davina:
Children. You say to little children because these are all like etiquette of how a child should behave?
Tom:
Oh, that throws out my theory. I was like, these are model poses. You have a photographer taking pictures as someone does— and these are the things they have to pose into, but... No, you don't—
Stuart:
Tom, I would like to see.
Tom:
You would like to see hips—
Stuart:
Yeah. So I'm the photographer now, with taking photos of you.
Tom:
Yep, yep.
Stuart:
Okay, duck tails.
Ed:
♪ Woo-hoo♪
Tom:
See, I just immediately went "Woo-hoo" back! Right?
SFX:
(group cracks up)
Davina:
♪ Woo-oo ♪
Tom:
We all thought it. And I realise all that is is like putting your hand— No, it doesn't— That's not— doesn't feel like a model pose.
Stuart:
Okay, man hands? Man hands.
Tom:
(throws hands up) No, that's jazz hands.
Ed:
Oh! Is this like, you know that bit in The Blues Brothers where they're doing the dance to "Shake a Tail Feather"?
Tom:
Oh yes. Yeah.
Ed:
Is this what we're doing? So is it a dance? ♪ Shake your tail feather ♪
Stuart:
No, you've already hit on it. You've already basically got the answer. I think I could— I have to sort of give you that, but I'm sort of now wanting to hear you do more bits on it.
Davina:
(stifles guffaw)
Tom:
So these are— Are these code words or like fun ways to tell kids, "This is what you should do now"?
Stuart:
Correct. Absolutely bang on.
Tom:
So now we have to work out what these are.
Davina:
So that's hips and lip— Oh, hip— One on the hip, and one on the lips? Hip lips?
Stuart:
Correct. And what would that ind— What would that signal that they're supposed to be doing?
Davina:
That they need to shut the heck up.
Stuart:
Yes.
Tom:
Be quiet. Stand still. Okay.
Davina:
But keep it sassy. 'Cause I wanna see a hand on a hip.
Stuart:
Okay, and man hands?
Davina:
Man hands is just about the patriarchy. And it's teaching men at such a young age to not go— Just 'cause you want to doesn't mean you should grab it.
Tom:
Oh, well, no, no, because it's, yeah. Keep— Fold your arms. Keep your hands in. And sulk.
Stuart:
Sort of be grumpy.
Tom:
And sulk.
Stuart:
Yeah.
Tom:
Yeah, okay.
Stuart:
And not tell anyone about it for 60, 70 years of your life.
Tom:
Pockets must be hands in pockets then.
Stuart:
Yeah, hands in pockets. And duck tails?
Davina:
Put your hands behind you like a little tail. And your hands are like that.
Stuart:
Perfect.
Davina:
Like, ♪ Woo-oo ♪ Yeah.
Stuart:
Yeah. And it's— So Hannah, who sent in the question, is a preschool teacher, and she said that they use all of these phrases on a daily basis. My own preschool and kindergarten teachers uses these phrases as well.
Tom:
Ed, you said you were a new dad. I guess you're gonna learn that in a couple years time.
Ed:
Absolutely, yeah. I'm gonna be duck tailing my way to... the preschool, or whatever it is. (chuckles)
Tom:
Which means we just have the question from the start of the show, sent in by Stephen B.
Does any of the panel wanna take a quick shot at this?
How do cats die twice when travelling from the UK to Spain?
Stuart:
Is it to do with "un petite mort"?
SFX:
(Tom and Davina laugh)
Tom:
(French accent) No, no.
Davina:
(laughs) Do cats petite mort? I didn't know they could. Can any animal?
Stuart:
Un chat de petite mort.
Tom:
Pour la douzième... time this episode? No. No.
Ed:
Is it because they need to... I don't know, they... It's a part of the immigration process, that they have to kind of lose a life before they enter into Spain?
Davina:
They have to be sedated, don't they? Is it to do with sedation?
Stuart:
Is it that something live cannot be travelling, so they have to be t— or some archaic old rule, and so that has to be medically described as dead in order to be transported?
Tom:
Nothing bad happens to them in transit.
Stuart:
I'm not saying it would, I'm just saying that they— on a form, it has to be like, this technically is dead.
Davina:
Bureaucratically dead.
Tom:
Mhm.
Stuart:
Yes, yes. Bureaucratically dead. I love that!
Tom:
No, but perhaps "metaphorically dead" would be a good way of putting it.
Ed:
So they tear up something from where they've just come from, like, you're no longer free from X, Y, and Z, and therefore, you know, you're officially dead to that country that you've left?
Davina:
Or the birth certificate of the cat has to be like, (imitates rip) instead of a symbolic—
Tom:
No, they'd get them back going the other way.
Ed:
Is it a cat that arrives in Spain and just puts up an Instagram story saying, "I died"?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Ed:
Is that what it is?
Davina:
Oh, nine lives. Cats have nine lives. So you take one of the nine, and now this cat's got nine, eight... Oh, seven. You said it dies twice.
Tom:
Seven. Yes.
Davina:
Now it's got seven.
Tom:
English cats have nine lives, but Spanish cats, only seven, in proverbs.
Davina:
Oh that's funny.
Tom:
Yes. The Spanish equivalent translates as "to have seven lives like cats."
Ed:
And what's the reason for that is their high rate of diabetes in cats in Spain.
SFX:
(Tom and Davina laugh)
Tom:
Thank you very much to all our players.
Let's find out, what's going on with you? Where can people find you?
We will start with Ed.
Ed:
I have just finished a tour, but I've got a new tour starting off in September, after the Edinburgh Fringe. You can just Google... or use any other search engine you like, or come and find me on any social media at @EdPatrickComedy and I'll be posting stuff on there.
Tom:
Davina.
Davina:
Please come and see me do lots of work in progresses of my new show, which is called Dancing While Old. Just come to my Instagram on the internet at DavinaBentleyComedy.
Tom:
And Stuart.
Stuart:
You can find me on ecosia.org.
Tom:
(laughs)
Stuart:
Which of course is the only good search site you should be using.
I would say go on to stuartlaws.com, sign up to my mailing list. Because I truly believe that we need to, as creators, be less reliant on these platforms that are controlled by huge corporations. And that the best way for people to follow comedians is to get onto their mailing list. So they get a direct email every month or so, giving like information on where people are going.
So you should do it for Ed, you should do it for Davina, you should do it for Lateral, for Tom as well, because that is ultimately better than being reliant on algorithms and, you know, the whims of... an insane billionaire at the top of the pile.
Tom:
And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also sign up for the Lateral Producer's Club or send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are full video episodes every week on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Stuart Laws.
Stuart:
Thank you.
Tom:
Davina Bentley.
Davina:
Thank you.
Tom:
Ed Patrick.
Ed:
Thank you.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Stephen B., Nate, Hannah Williams, Katie Waning, Jagan, Samuel Kerr |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |