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Episode 190: A second toastie
29th May, 2026 • Rosalie Minnitt, Verity Babbs and Bob Hagh face questions about topsy-turvy tipples, reclaimed roads and baseball busts.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Why did an orange drink manufacturer print part of its label upside down?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Welcome, visitors. You've arrived at one of the most modestly significant locations in modern podcasting: the Lateral studio.
If you look to your north side, you'll see our first exhibit: a wall featuring several coloured stripes. Experts believe these stripes were added to make the room appear slightly more interesting than it actually is. Please take a moment to admire the stripes.
Opposite, you'll notice a metal object known as a boom arm. This carefully engineered apparatus performs the vital function of holding a microphone at roughly mouth height.
Finally, you'll see that I am on a chair. Historians believe this is where hosts traditionally sit while attempting to find new ways to say, "You're close, but that's not quite right."
And no tour would be complete without today's guest curators. Or should that be, curated guests? We have three wonderful players on Lateral today, and we will start:
From BuzzerBlog, from Twitch, and from the upcoming 24-Hour Game Show Marathon:
Bob Hagh, welcome back.
Bob:
Thank you. I'm so glad to be back here.
I feel like I had a lot of fun the first time, and I messed up a few times, and you brought me back anyway, so...
Tom:
(laughs)
Bob:
I'm here for the fun.
Tom:
Tell us about the marathon.
Bob:
We play 24 game shows in 24 hours from the US, the UK, the world, and we raise money for a great charity called Child's Play to help children in hospitals give them access to games, board games, VR headsets, to make them feel like kids during very difficult times.
But if you like quizzes, you like game shows, you like to have a look— to see people answer questions at 3:00 in the morning with no sleep...
Tom:
(cackles)
Bob:
This is the event for you! You're gonna love it!
Tom:
Good news! People answering questions with no sleep is also gonna be a lot of this episode as well.
SFX:
(Rosalie and Verity laugh)
Bob:
Yes.
Tom:
How long have you been doing this?
Bob:
Since 2012. You know, obviously with COVID happening, we took a year off, but... Me and my two great friends from back in college, and then we have another great friend we met a few years ago. We now have an audience. We have technical directors, production directors.
Tom:
(exhales stiffly)
Bob:
We have a worldwide audience. It's been a lot of fun, and we have a theme song composed by the same musician who did the Weakest Link theme.
Tom:
Oh!
Rosalie:
Oh, wow.
Bob:
So he gave us a great theme song for it, and it's fantastic. I love it.
Tom:
It is so good to see the skills get better each year and year and year. Good luck with the marathon. Good luck to the charity and all of you, and good luck on the show today.
Our second player today, also returning to the show:
Author of The History of Art in One Sentence, and now running art museum comedy shows:
Verity Babbs, welcome back.
Verity:
Hello! Thanks for having me again.
Tom:
I've gotta ask about comedy in an art museum.
Verity:
Yeah, I mean, we go to different galleries. We're mostly in the National Gallery at the moment, and I'll ship in some stand-ups, and they'll each choose a painting on the wall. I'll give them, you know, a bit of information about the artist and the painting, and each of us will then do a stand-up set inspired by that painting.
But we do frequently frighten the security guards.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Verity:
Because the comedians will get within about this— within, you know, within centimetres of these completely priceless artworks. So it's also a good sort of cardiovascular workout for me during these evenings.
SFX:
(others giggling)
Tom:
Are you doing a tour around the museum as well? Is it like, the audience goes to the different paintings?
Verity:
Yeah, so sometimes we're just in one room. We have done tours before. We sometimes do improv comedy tours, when the artworks on the wall are by artists who are still alive, to avoid any any lawsuits.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Verity:
But the problem is you then have to go up to people in art fairs and say, "Do you wanna have a... see some improv comedy?" And the answer is often no.
Tom:
Often, yeah.
Rosalie:
(laughs)
Verity:
And you can't blame them.
Tom:
Yeah.
Verity:
You can't blame them. So we do all sorts, yeah. It's called Art Laughs.
Tom:
Well, good luck improvising your way around Lateral today.
Our third player is brand new to Lateral, and I believe taking a show to the Edinburgh Fringe very soon.
Rosalie Minnitt, welcome to the show.
Rosalie:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm quite s— I'm quite nervous. I feel like the fact you guys have done that— done it before makes me quite stressed out. And you keep saying, "Good luck," Tom, which is also scaring me quite a lot.
Tom:
No, I say that to everyone! Absolutely everyone. I think Producer David normally tries to pair a new player with a couple of folks who've done the show before. Just to try and help ease you in.
Rosalie:
Great.
Tom:
Tell me about the Fringe. What are you taking up there?
Rosalie:
So, I took a show up in 2024. Now 2023, 2024. I do a character comedy show called Clementine, which is a kind of Regency fever dream girl.
Tom:
(laughs)
Rosalie:
And I am currently on tour with it. And I'm bringing the sequel to Edinburgh Fringe this year, which is really exciting. And yeah, I've just recently developed the character into a Radio 4 pilot.
Tom:
Oh, congratulations.
Rosalie:
Which was really fun, and also really tested my sort of, yeah, a bit— I realised I sort of have got no sense of how to make audio comedy, so that was a really fun journey for me.
SFX:
(Tom and Verity laugh)
Rosalie:
And also, my character's extremely visual. It's all about, like, her costume and her outfit, and I just hadn't taken any of that into account when I thought— sort of thought, "Let's make it work for radio." So yeah, I'm sort of just kind of experimenting and seeing where I can take her next, really.
Tom:
Well, I— See, now I'm wary of saying this, but good luck—
Rosalie:
Good luck!
Tom:
with both the show and this show here.
The tour continues to the next attraction, namely question one.
Thank you to Edmund Plamowski for this question.
In Major League Baseball, the annual award for pitching excellence is named after a player who still holds the record for most career losses. Why?
I'll give you that one more time.
In Major League Baseball, the annual award for pitching excellence is named after a player who still holds the record for most career losses. Why?
Bob:
Well, if it's one thing I know about Major League Baseball, is that pitchers are not really good batters. There's some exceptions out there, but normally a pitcher, because they're pitching so much, they usually have a pinch hitter to help them, because they don't wanna... you know, waste the energy by swinging a bat. So they might have someone pinch hit for them. That's all— That's— My baseball knowledge is low.
Rosalie:
Bob, you are surely our only hope here. If your baseball knowledge is low... Bob, come on! Come through! We don't know anything about baseball here!
Bob:
Oh, I'm gonna let all the Americans down now. So I apologize.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Verity:
Is it a different type of pitching, and actually he's, like, a marketing whiz, and he's like—
Rosalie:
Right.
Verity:
and he's winning D—
Bob:
Oh!
Verity:
He's he's their marketing guy.
Rosalie:
Right. (giggles) He's making pitch docs on Canva.
Verity:
Yeah, he's—
SFX:
(group laughing)
Verity:
It's a Canva award.
Tom:
Oh, there's someone who's had to pitch a lot of things to various producers in their life.
Rosalie:
Oh, yeah, a lot of— I've got a lot of Canva docs here, Tom. My entire career rests on failed Canvas.
Could it be, like... that he was excellent in a different way? He was like— He was sort of the most kind of iconic, but wasn't very good? He was the sort of vibe hire of the team?
Verity:
Just a super nice guy.
Rosalie:
Yeah, great vibes, just not good.
Verity:
Or like Miss Congeniality. It's like we've all got together, and we voted for you.
Rosalie:
Yeah. (giggles)
Tom:
(chuckles)
Bob:
He has a good smile! I'm sure he can pitch pretty well.
Rosalie:
Yeah, we just love him.
Verity:
Most improved. He used to be worse.
Tom:
(cackles)
Rosalie:
Yes.
Verity:
And now he's a little bit better.
Rosalie:
It's an effort award.
Bob:
Yeah, I mean, baseball's all about averages. That's what they like to talk about. So I like the idea of like, you start off really low, and maybe over time, you just progress to a really high level. But...
Tom:
Out of all that, Bob, I'd say that "over time" is probably the best words in there.
Verity:
If it's over time, is it like he's just pitched loads? Like he started as a little tot?
Tom:
Now, that's very close.
Bob:
Oh.
Tom:
Yes.
Verity:
Ooh.
Tom:
But he still has the record for most career losses.
Bob:
Most career lo...
Rosalie:
But is it career losses that the team has lost so much?
Tom:
Mhm.
Rosalie:
But he's great? Like, he plays for, I don't know Bob, a team, insert American team. And they've lost so much, but he's great at pitching.
Bob:
It's... I see where you're going with that. Because he can be a great pitcher, and... He can be a great— yeah. 'Cause here's the thing. If you're a great pitcher, and you're getting strike-outs, you're trying to minimize the amount of runs from a team. So if he's a great pitcher, you would think the team he's on would hold their opponents to a very lower score, right?
Tom:
He does have the most career losses. He has another record as well.
Verity:
Is he like— Is Little League Baseball where they're all like, he's seven—
Tom:
Oh, no, this is definitely Major League. Definitely Major League.
Rosalie:
(laughs)
Verity:
Okay.
Tom:
But—
Verity:
He's seven in the Major Leagues, so they've given him an award.
Tom:
Well, he did do this for a very long time.
Bob:
See, I know— I think I know the name of the award, but I don't know if that helps.
Tom:
Yeah.
Bob:
Oh, should I say it?
Tom:
Yeah, yeah.
Bob:
Alright, I believe the pitching award is the Cy Young Award.
Tom:
It is, yes.
Bob:
Okay.
Tom:
This is Cy Young. So why might Cy have got the most career losses, despite actually being very good, and the team being very good?
Verity:
Is he... like, the mascot?
Tom:
(laughs)
Verity:
Does the mascot pitch first?
Tom:
No, no, just genuinely, genuinely a pitcher.
Verity:
Oh, okay, right.
Tom:
This is very much over time, over a long time.
Verity:
Uh-huh.
Rosalie:
Oh! No. Was he playing when he was old?
Tom:
He was playing for many years.
Rosalie:
Has he just played a lot of games?
Tom:
Yeah! He's just played a lot of games! Not only does he have the record for most career losses, he also has the record for most career wins.
Verity:
Cy Young!
Rosalie:
Why?
Tom:
Cy Young pitched for 22 seasons, in an era when starting pitchers routinely threw far more innings and far more often.
Bob:
Mhm.
Tom:
He started over 800 games.
Rosalie:
Wow.
Tom:
He has 316 career losses, and that simply reflects how long he was in the Major Leagues for.
Bob:
Wow.
Tom:
He also has the record for career wins, and that is considered unbreakable, because modern pitchers just don't stay in the game so long.
Bob:
Fascinating! I knew he played for a long time, but I didn't know it was that long to actually— That's crazy! I guess stamina back in the day, you can do much more pitching.
SFX:
(Tom and Rosalie laugh)
Bob:
Everyone's weak today. They're weak.
Tom:
Pitchers today basically have a managed workload, so they don't wear themselves out. And they're just not gonna get the opportunity to match his numbers.
Greg Maddux is one of the closest ones these days. He retired in 2008. He had 355 wins. Cy had more than 500.
Bob:
Wow.
Rosalie:
Wow.
Bob:
What a legend.
Rosalie:
Yeah.
Verity:
But was he one of those old-timey athletes who were huge and constantly smoking? Because that's like, this is what, like, peak male performance looks like in 1942.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
Each of our guests has brought a question along with them. We'll start today with Bob.
Bob:
Awesome, okay.
This question has been sent in by Oisín.
In Wisconsin, there's a town called Belgium, whose residents largely descend from Luxembourg. There's also a town called Luxemburg that was settled mainly by Belgians. How did they end up with each other's names?
I'll read that one more time.
In Wisconsin, there's a town called Belgium, whose residents largely descend from Luxembourg. There's also a town called Luxemburg that was settled mainly by Belgians. How did they end up with each other's names?
Verity:
School exchange.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Verity:
For, like, whole town. Whole town. For cultural exchange.
Tom:
And they just never went back.
Rosalie:
And they were like, "This is great."
Tom:
"This is convenient. We like each other's towns more. We'll just stay here."
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Bob:
"It's a nice place."
Rosalie:
When was this? Do we have a date on this?
Bob:
So this happened in the year 1857.
Tom:
Oh, that's specific.
Bob:
Mid-19th century, this happened.
Tom:
So that isn't just a town that steadily had immigrants over the years. This is towns that were founded 1857 specifically with these names?
Bob:
Correct.
Tom:
Okay.
Verity:
Were they— Were the places named by someone else who was like, fundamentally, these places aren't that different?
Or that thing of like, in The Muppets, the Swedish Chef in Sweden is called a Norwegian Chef. Because fundamentally they're the same.
Rosalie:
They're the same thing.
Tom:
Yeah. They were named by someone from the Netherlands who was just like, "This will really mess them up."
Rosalie:
(laughs)
Bob:
I— Okay. I will say, Verity, you're kind of on the right track there.
Verity:
Ooh.
Bob:
I'm not gonna give the full ding-ding-ding on this, but you're— Continue with a similar thought with what you were just saying about that.
Verity:
So Jim Henson was there.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Bob:
"Kermit the Frog".
Tom:
Was it just confusion somehow? Although, it's not like you always name a town after the people who've settled there. They can be named after people or rivers or locations. It's not usual to name a town after the old country.
Rosalie:
Were they just like, "It's probably one of them"? Were there just a bunch of Belgians that came over, and they were like... 'cause I'm from Belgium, so I'm trying to figure out what— I should know this. I feel like I should know some kind of context here.
Bob:
You were taught this.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Rosalie:
I was taught, yeah. We did this whole module of this. I feel like maybe a... maybe a French person. Someone did it to annoy them? Could it be that, like, yeah, a Dutch person did it to annoy them? I don't know. Maybe they were all just speaking Dutch.
Tom:
Maybe the towns were made or ready for the settlers to arrive... and they just went to the wrong one.
Rosalie:
The wrong one. (giggles) Yeah!
Tom:
We've got a town called Belgium for the Belgians. We've got a town called— Oh, they've gone to the wr— Who gave them the maps?
SFX:
(Rosalie and Bob laugh)
Rosalie:
Were they just looking to rebrand? Like, were the Belgians like, "We just, we'd like, we'd love a change. We think that it would be cooler to be from Luxembourg"? Was that— Are they looking for something, like...
Tom:
(laughs)
Rosalie:
You know, they're in a new country, they're looking for a new look?
Tom:
They're trying to leave Belgium behind. We don't wanna be associated with Belgium. You know who's cool? Luxembourg.
Rosalie:
Luxembourg. (giggles)
Verity:
Are the— Is it just that, very last minute, they thought they were— like, the Belgians thought they were in Belgium, and the Luxembourgians thought they were in Luxemburg, and then they looked at the road sign, and the wrong one had been put up?
Bob:
Oh, that is actually... on the edge there. Yeah, so...
Tom:
(chuckles)
Verity:
Ooh.
Bob:
I'll lead with this, 'cause Verity, you're two for two for getting us to the finish line right there.
Tom:
(cackles)
Bob:
So think about... 'Cause— so I gave the date, right? Think about... What would it take to put these names officially? How would you go about naming these areas, right? So...
Tom:
You would put the town down and play— Saying this like it's Sim City. You found the town. I actually don't know. I assume there's a... town hall or a post office. You create the admin building, and then you file paperwork with the state, I guess?
Bob:
You said a key word there, Tom. You said postal service. Yes, so...
Tom:
Oh, 'cause that's how American towns... like, you're a town basically if you have a post office and a ZIP code. At some point, someone has to assign you...
Bob:
Yep.
Tom:
I mean, it wouldn't have been a ZIP code back then, but someone would've had to go, "Alright, there is now a town called this. Mark it down on the map."
Bob:
Correct, correct, and then—
Verity:
So was it a mail issue? Like, they were meant to be Belgium, but they missed the postal delivery, so they're gonna have to go to the shop to pick it up later, and then only Luxemburg was left?
Bob:
It was delivered... but remember your first point, when you said something like... So the— In the post office, they have the names there. What could possibly cause it—
Tom:
Did someone swap the names by accident?
Bob:
Exactly!
SFX:
(guessers groan and chortle)
Bob:
It was a clerical error. So the names were submitted.
Tom:
Ohh!
Bob:
But it was a clerical error, where someone actually swapped the two names.
So yeah, back in 1857, the two communities independently proposed the names, reflecting the residents' origins. According to Robert E Gard's The Romance of Wisconsin Placenames, the names were accidentally reversed while being processed by the US Postal Service. So it was just somebody who got the names, and made an accident and just swapped them.
So that's how you got those two confused. 'Cause back then, you didn't have technology or fact-checking or AI, right? You just had someone going, "Yeah, these look right. Okay, we're good."
Verity:
And they just accepted that. They were like, "I'm not gonna cause a fuss. We'll just run with this."
Tom:
(laughs)
Bob:
They're all polite. They're all polite.
Tom:
It's Wisconsin. They are.
Verity:
(chuckles)
Tom:
Thank you to Katie Waning for this question.
A snack bar in St Andrews, Scotland, offers its customers the option to pre-purchase a second cheese toastie for £1, but only in case they don't finish the first one. What is this fee called?
I'll say that again.
A snack bar in St Andrews, Scotland, offers its customers the option to pre-purchase a second cheese toastie for £1, but only in case they don't finish the first one. What is this fee called?
Bob:
Wait, so you pre— Hold on, you pre-order this before you finish the first one?
Tom:
Yeah, it's an add-on to the menu.
Rosalie:
Are you able to— If you do finish the first one, but you've pre-ordered the second one, are you then not allowed it? Are you— Is it withheld?
Tom:
Nope, you won't get it. Nope.
Verity:
I think I might have heard this.
Tom:
Alright.
Verity:
So I'm gonna sit out.
Rosalie:
You know it?
Tom:
You sit out, Verity. This is on Bob and Rosalie.
Bob:
Oh no.
Rosalie:
Some kind of gluttony charge?
Bob:
That's—
SFX:
(Tom and Verity laugh)
Bob:
That was the first word I thought about. It's like, we don't want that.
Verity:
It's about sin.
Rosalie:
It's about— yeah.
Verity:
It's a sin tax.
SFX:
(Tom and Bob laugh)
Rosalie:
I went immediately Catholic. I'm...
SFX:
(Verity and Tom laugh)
Rosalie:
What could be— What could— I mean, there's something... My question is, like, how did we get there? What was the— Was the issue that there had been a sort of like spate of unfinished toasties, and therefore... Is it like a... I don't know.
Tom:
There had been a spate of something. Yes, absolutely. Unfinished toasties... not... (cracks up) You'll see why I'm hesitating around that when we get to the end of the question.
Rosalie:
Is it like a seagull tax? 'Cause people—
Tom:
Yes, it is!
Rosalie:
Is it?
Tom:
Yes.
Rosalie:
Yes! Oh, my god, I did it.
Tom:
Okay, talk—
Rosalie:
Yes!
SFX:
(both giggling)
Tom:
Talk me through your logic there.
Rosalie:
Okay, oh my god, I got one right. Aah!
SFX:
(both laughing)
Rosalie:
I— Okay, 'cause I'm thinking, if people are leaving half-finished toasties out, the seagulls are getting them. St Andrews is on the coast. And it's a warning to people, to not leave their half-eaten things about?
Tom:
Ooh, not quite.
Rosalie:
Oh, no?
Tom:
So, no, no. You got seagulls.
Rosalie:
Great.
Tom:
That's out of nowhere, but it's not a penalty for leaving the food unfinished.
Rosalie:
Oh, is it for the seagulls?
Tom:
Not willingly. What do you know about seagulls? What are they like?
Rosalie:
They're awful.
SFX:
(guests giggling)
Bob:
They mock you.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Bob:
They laugh at you, they mock, and they wait. They wait
Rosalie:
They wait.
Bob:
for you to give them food.
Tom:
Do they always?
Rosalie:
I think they take it, Bob.
Bob:
Well, I was in a— yeah. I was in a McDonald's parking lot, and there's like 10 of them on my hood waiting for a french fry to be thrown out.
Rosalie:
Oh, is it that you can pre-order, 'cause so many of them have been taken from people's hands?
Tom:
It is seagull insurance. Yes, it is.
Rosalie:
Right! Oh my god, that's great. (giggles)
Tom:
Verity, was that what you remembered?
Verity:
Yes, it was. And we have lots of seagulls down here on the south coast. And similarly, there's a lot of people having to cover their bins with extra layers of all sorts of things to keep the seagulls away. So they're nasty. And they are gluttonous, and they will...
Bob:
Mm.
Verity:
They are sinning. They're sinning.
Tom:
They are. You were right on gluttony. You see why I hesitated on that earlier.
This is the Cheesy Toast Shack in St Andrews. They will offer you seagull insurance for £1. Around 30 customers daily lose their sandwiches to aggressive seagulls. Profits from the insurance go to charity.
The business owner, Kate Carter-Larg, told Fife Today, quote, "The gulls are super aggressive and actually terrifying. The minute customers hold the toastie up for a picture" – 'cause they're taking the Instagram shot – "all the seagulls divebomb them."
Rosalie:
(wheezes)
Bob:
Oh my god.
Tom:
"People are left bleeding."
Rosalie:
Oh, god!
Bob:
See, see, I'm over here saying, "Who would steal someone's delicious toastie?" And I realize, it's a jerk of a bird.
SFX:
(Tom and Rosalie laugh)
Tom:
Verity, we will head to you for your question, please.
Verity:
This question has been sent in by Jovi Thorne.
An art collector bought an unknown painting attributed to Rembrandt and had it cleaned. This ruined the picture and caused him significant embarrassment, but the public was both impressed and amused. Why?
I'll read it again.
An art collector bought an unknown painting attributed to Rembrandt and had it cleaned. This ruined the picture and caused him significant embarrassment, but the public was both impressed and amused. Why?
Bob:
I would feel like the alteration he made to the painting created a whole different scene. That the public was like, "Oh, you know, that's new. I didn't expect that." So maybe it was a pleasant surprise to the public?
Tom:
We're all thinking the Monkey Jesus painting, right?
Rosalie:
Yeah.
Tom:
We're all thinking that painting of Jesus that got cleaned up and is now more famous
Bob:
Oh, yes.
Tom:
because of the bad restoration job.
Verity:
Yeah. But sometimes restoration jobs make things look worse but more accurate. There was the— they did a— restored the Van Eyck brothers' Lamb of God. And it turns out that they'd given the Lamb of God a really quite nice, pretty lamb face. And the original, which they restored, is horrible.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Verity:
So it's more accurate, but it's basically like, it's like horrible sheep giving you a snog. It's quite unpleasant.
SFX:
(others chortling)
Verity:
So, sometimes, the restorations do make it more accurate, but worse.
Tom:
Lateral: a horrible sheep giving you a snog.
SFX:
(Verity and Rosalie guffaw)
Bob:
Oh, beautiful.
Rosalie:
Is it that? Is it that the—
SFX:
(group laughing)
Rosalie:
That there was— Is it that? That there was a reveal of a crazy face, or the original looked way freakier or weirder?
Verity:
There was a reveal.
Tom:
The question says "attributed to Rembrandt".
Rosalie:
So it wasn't— Maybe it was something like crap underneath, and some sort of finger painting situation. And the—
Tom:
A fake or a forgery.
Rosalie:
Yeah.
Bob:
Ooh.
Verity:
Carry on.
Bob:
Did Rembrandt paint over something? Did this original painting, like, did Rembrandt paint over something else that may have been contributed to some— another artist or something?
Tom:
Now, that does happen all the time. Canvases get reused, 'cause they're incredibly expensive. So, I know art historians will sometimes do... is it... I mean, I'm gonna use the wrong terms, but X-ray the paintings and investigate the paintings
Rosalie:
Yeah.
Tom:
to find out what was hidden underneath on the old version? But...
Verity:
Yeah.
Tom:
If it's attributed to Rembrandt, maybe it was just painted over something that was absolutely not a Rembrandt.
Verity:
I liked where you were going with forgeries, Tom.
Tom:
Okay.
Rosalie:
Forgeries.
Tom:
The cleaning must have revealed that it was a forgery.
Verity:
Mhm.
Rosalie:
But it didn't— But there was the f— I don't know how, as a— I was thinking, like... did it show really, like... that there'd been... copy marks underneath, or some kind of tracing situation?
Verity:
You're so close. You and Tom together are so close.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
Bob:
It was paint-by-numbers.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Bob:
Rembrandt found the— It was the original paint-by-numbers stencil, and we found it.
Verity:
He's cheeky.
Tom:
They started cleaning it, and it turned out it was just inkjet printer. Just smeared away into nothing.
SFX:
(guests laugh heartily)
Bob:
Dot matrix.
SFX:
(Tom and Bob laugh)
Tom:
No, that's pointillism, that is.
Bob:
Okay, yeah. That's good, that's good, that's good.
Tom:
Thanks. No one laughed, but I got a "That's good". I'll take it, fine.
Bob:
That's good.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Verity:
I guess I'm just looking now for what it would be, that meant that the public were amused.
Tom:
I don't know any Rembrandt paintings.
Verity:
Oh, oh, Rembrandt, like, massive The Night Watch.
Tom:
Oh, yes.
Bob:
Mhm.
Verity:
And lots of men in big frilly shirts.
Tom:
Yep.
Verity:
Vibe.
Tom:
But the name of the painting isn't relevant. It's not like it was, it was The Night Watch, and it turned out to have been painted on an advert for a watch or—
Verity:
No.
Tom:
Okay.
Rosalie:
Was it— Is it rude?
Verity:
It's not rude, but it is a bit cheeky.
Tom:
(laughs)
Rosalie:
Cheeky?
Tom:
Lateral: not rude, but a bit cheeky.
Rosalie:
A bit cheeky.
Bob:
Ooh.
Verity:
It's, like, Bart Simpson-esque.
Tom:
(laughs breathily)
Bob:
Oh, well, okay, look. When people say cheeky, was someone showing their bum on this? 'Cause— Because Bart always said, "Eat my shorts," and he always mooned other characters.
Verity:
No bums, sadly.
Bob:
No bums, sadly. Lateral: no bums, sadly.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Yeah. Okay, did it— Okay, did it just have "This is a fake" in big letters underneath the—
Verity:
Ding-ding-ding, Tom.
Tom:
Ohh!
Rosalie:
Oh, no!
Verity:
Ding-ding-ding.
Tom:
That's a plot point in Doctor Who!
SFX:
(Rosalie and Verity laugh)
Tom:
That is the... I can't remember the name of the episode. It's the one set in Paris, where there are several copies of the Mona Lisa, and the Doctor simply writes "This is a fake" on the canvases to be discovered years later. Someone actually did that?
Verity:
Yes.
So, Tom Keating, who was a very famous British art restorer, who basically became a bit disenchanted with the art world, selling, you know, only thinking about art as sort of a financial investment. He turned to become one of the UK's sort of most famous forgers of art.
And he was self-taught, and he's amazing and makes all these paintings that now actually hold some value, because they're by him. But so he did lots and lots of copies of different works. And sometimes he would sabotage these works, so that when later restoration happened, or cleaning, they would be exposed as fakes. Sort of as a, you know, a put-down to the art establishment.
And so he was known to hide taunting messages such as, "This is a fake," or, "Ever been had?" in some works, painting in lead white paint, which would be discovered by X-ray.
Rosalie:
(gasps) Wow.
Tom:
Wow.
Rosalie:
I love that.
Tom:
It was X-raying it! 'Cause lead is radio opaque.
Bob:
Mhm.
Tom:
So the minute you put it in the X-ray, you get this incredible— Oh, the look on that technician's face!
Verity:
Yeah.
SFX:
(Bob and Rosalie giggle)
Bob:
That would make a lovely greeting card. That you just give someone that, they're like, "You need an X-ray to see the message."
Verity:
(chuckles)
Tom:
I do know someone with an X-ray machine.
Verity:
And a birthday coming up.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Thank you to Bob Weisz for sending this in.
In 1910, the Glidden Tour motor race announced that it would go through Iowa. 380 miles (about 610 kilometres) of dirt road needed compacting to be suitable for cars. With minimal cost, how did the governor get the job done in one hour?
I'll say that again.
In 1910, the Glidden Tour motor race announced that it would go through Iowa. 380 miles (about 610 kilometres) of dirt road needed compacting to be suitable for cars. With minimal cost, how did the governor get the job done in one hour?
Bob:
Okay, so as the American here...
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Tom:
Tell us about Iowa, Bob.
Bob:
It is boring!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Bob:
Sorry to all our Iowa listeners. I mean, I have friends from Iowa. I feel like— I mean, this—
Tom:
(laughs)
Bob:
It's just like a— as you get to, like, the plains of the US, like the center of the US, it's just flat. It's dirt. There's nothing there. Did the race take place all in Iowa, or did it go through Iowa? I'm just— wanna make sure.
Tom:
It was passing through.
Bob:
It was passing through, okay.
Tom:
So this was a... very early motor race, in the sense that it was more demonstrating that cars were a practical thing. It was part race, part publicity for the motor car.
Bob:
He had to compact the roads. I don't know if this is the answer. I'll just throw it out there. Did he just have everybody go out to the dirt roads and just start stomping and using tools, and it was a community effort? 'Cause if it was, like, in an hour, it had to be quick.
Tom:
You're most of the way there, Bob.
Verity:
I was gonna throw in a stampeding animal. Like when people want their grass cut, and they bring in sheep.
Rosalie:
Yeah.
Verity:
Or, you're meant to be able to do that with guinea pigs. If you release guinea pigs into your garden, it'll sort you out, but is it like a stam— they caused a stampede of an animal to... to trample it?
Rosalie:
I was gonna say, did they release... Did he say it on the radio? Did he tell everyone to go off, did he do a kind of radio show?
Tom:
Well, in what way? What would that do?
Rosalie:
In that he's— In that he— It was, like, to get the group effort, he kind of did a countywide, call-out on the airwaves, and then got everyone to do it like that?
Tom:
I think I'm just gonna give you that question. It wasn't on the airwaves, but that was basically it.
The state needs to improve long stretches of rural dirt roads very quickly. The governor organised the local farmers along the route to all drag the road in front of their property at the same time. And these are road drags behind horses or behind vehicles, just to compact the ground down.
I think between the three of you, you've basically got all the elements.
Verity:
Yay.
Bob:
We did it.
Tom:
There were 700 farmers involved, and the work was done in about an hour. It is the River-to-River Road from the Missouri to the Mississippi.
Bob:
That's impressive.
Rosalie:
Wow.
Tom:
Mhm.
Verity:
You wouldn't get that these days.
Rosalie:
No.
Tom:
(laughs)
Verity:
You wouldn't get that now.
Tom:
I'd like to think you would. I'd like to think if there was something special coming along, you could, with the right people and the right community effort, you could make that happen.
Verity:
We just about managed pots and pans in the pandemic, didn't we, so...
Rosalie:
Yeah, so true.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Verity:
For a day or two. (laughs)
Tom:
Rosalie, we will go to you for your question, please.
Rosalie:
Great, so:
In 2025, why did an advertising agency install a kayak, an arcade machine, a tool chest, and a barbecue on a billboard in Newtown, Sydney?
I'll say it again.
In 2025, why did an advertising agency install a kayak, an arcade machine, a tool chest, and a barbecue on a billboard in Newtown, Sydney?
Verity:
Do we know if it was all at once, or was it rotating?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Rosalie:
It's all at once. All at once.
Verity:
Okay.
Tom:
There is a self-storage company on the outskirts of London, on one of the major roads in, and if you're ever driving in that way, every few months, they will get a big old crane, and they will move something else to the top of the self-storage unit just to get attention. Sometimes it might be a dinosaur. Sometimes it might be the TARDIS from Doctor Who. Sometimes might be a little plane. They just— It's just always up there.
And I remember the name of that self-storage place despite never needing it.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Rosalie:
It's close. It's, yeah, it's to sell something. To sell one product.
Bob:
Yeah. So a kayak, arcade, tool chest, barbecue. You're not really using all four at the same time, or in the same setting, I don't believe.
Tom:
No, 'cause kayak and barbecue, they're both outdoors stuff, but...
Bob:
Yeah.
Tom:
Arcade and tool chest.
Bob:
Yeah, that's more indoor, so...
Tom:
Hmm.
Bob:
It's something that brings the four together, or when you would use them. And that's why I like, I liked, yeah, I liked Tom's idea of a storage unit. Because, yeah, you— hey, you could store all this stuff here.
But if it's not a storage unit, where else can you... have all those devices? In a house? Are they trying to sell a house or something? Or property? Is this a— Is this some landlord billboard? I don't know what it is.
Tom:
They are all kind of entertainment things, right? They're all fun times to have with friends. You're gonna go out kayaking. You're gonna go out to the arcade.
No, mm. You're gonna go out doing DIY. That kinda fell apart, didn't it?
Verity:
Fun things you can do with friends, and then the advert is like, "You won't need these anymore, because you should get your Netflix subscription."
SFX:
(others laughing)
Verity:
It's like, you won't need to see anyone ever again.
Bob:
Does the location have— matter with this? You said it was in Sydney?
Rosalie:
Yeah, it's in Sydney. It doesn't have any connection to the thing that it's trying to sell.
And actually, the objects themselves don't have a thematic connection necessarily. But they're all trying to sell one thing.
Verity:
Were there other objects as well, and it's a mnemonic? Is it like the K of KitKat?
Rosalie:
No, no, but I think— but you're— I think you're too, obviously you're clever for that.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Rosalie:
For what this— It's kind of a dumb answer, if that helps.
Verity:
Okay.
Bob:
I was gonna say, are they just like... app icons?
Rosalie:
(guffaws)
Bob:
I don't know if it's like...
Tom:
Ooh?
Bob:
...a picture of a kayak, a picture of an arcade, and a consistent design methodology or something.
Rosalie:
They're real things. So it's not a picture of—
Bob:
They're real things, okay.
Rosalie:
It's like a real kayak—
Tom:
Oh yeah, but— maybe they represent something else. I love the app icons idea because... The opposite of the generic graphics, that means, "No, this is a big old screen." This kayak looks like the Gmail logo or something.
Verity:
Is it all sorts of stuff that people have tried to get rid of through eBay?
Tom:
(gasps)
Rosalie:
That's a great idea. I think it would be a great advertising campaign.
Verity:
Oh.
Bob:
Oh.
Rosalie:
It's so close. It's like... So people were invited to interact with the things, and there was an obvious risk to the fact that these things were stuck on, and that was noted at the time.
Tom:
Ooh.
Rosalie:
And if people were—
Tom:
Oh.
Rosalie:
Yeah.
Tom:
Okay. There was an advert in the UK years ago for a type of glue. And it was a television advert, where they just... And I assume they're all— I think I've mentioned this on Lateral before. I've mentioned this somewhere before. Where they just, you know, glued a guy to a board. You know, they put a stuntman over fire or water or something, and the glue— Was it, like, if you can steal this off here, you can have it?
Rosalie:
So you've kind of got it, in that it was— it's to sell glue. I will give you that.
So it's— It was a glue company. The campaign was for Selleys Liquid Nails, which involved attaching real items to a billboard using the construction adhesive. So objects, including a cricket bat and large plastic marlins, were fixed to the structure, rather than printed onto it. And the billboard invited the public to try removing them, using the slogan, "If you can take it, it's yours." And it was a real-world demonstration of how good the product was.
Bob:
That's really cool.
Verity:
Excellent.
Tom:
Which means we just have the question from the start of the show.
Sent in by Luka. Thank you very much.
Why did an orange drink manufacturer print part of its label upside down?
Do any of the panel wanna have a quick shot at that?
Bob:
I do, 'cause when I first heard this, I—
Tom:
(chuckles)
Bob:
Whenever I think orange drink...
Tom:
Mhm.
Bob:
I have to go to the classic Tang.
Tom:
(laughs)
Bob:
I think with ups— Well, with upside down, is that for astronauts who are, like, upside down, they gotta read the label of it?
Tom:
Oh, what a wonderfully American answer, Bob.
SFX:
(guests chortling)
Tom:
'Cause, 'cause as I— 'Cause of course that's— And I don't mean that as an insult. That's of course the most iconic orange drink in America, is the powdered Tang stuff.
Bob:
Yeah!
Tom:
Of course that was astronaut drink. If I tell you this is a European orange drink, that might make a difference.
Bob:
I'm out.
Tom:
(laughs)
Verity:
Irn-Bru?
Tom:
Oh, that's made with girders, that is. I went really Northern. I dropped the T and the H in "with" there.
SFX:
(Verity and Rosalie laugh)
Tom:
In this case, it is an orange drink manufacturer, as in made with oranges.
Verity:
What, and Irn-Bru is not full of fresh juice?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Rosalie:
I don't know.
Verity:
Is it lovely, lovely Orangina?
Tom:
It is Orangina. That being the iconic European orange drink.
Verity:
Ah.
Rosalie:
Is it when they tried to sell it to Australians or something?
SFX:
(others laugh in turn)
Rosalie:
Is it some kind of Down Under joke?
Tom:
What I love about this is that it proves that decades of Orangina advertising has had no impact on the European psyche. This is great.
Verity:
Oh, oh! Orangina, you've gotta shake it.
Tom:
Mhm.
Verity:
Is it to turn it upside down to...
Rosalie:
Oh!
Tom:
Yes.
Verity:
To get the pulp in the right place?
Tom:
There we go. Orangina has had the instructions to "shake the pulp" for a long time, because it contains actual orange juice. And it is printed upside down, so that people will turn the bottle to see what it says.
Verity:
Ohhh.
Bob:
Lovely.
Tom:
The pulp gets redistributed around the drink.
Rosalie:
Right.
Tom:
Which is what they wanted, so you don't end up with a load of grit at the bottom. And in previous years, that slogan is apparently, "Shake the bottle, wake the drink," which has not made the impact that those marketers hoped that it would.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Thank you very much to all our players.
Where can people find you? What's going on in your lives?
We will start with Rosalie.
Rosalie:
You can find me on Instagram at rosalieminnett, and please come see me on tour.
Tom:
Verity.
Verity:
Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at veritybabbsart. And if you look me up, gigs and things will appear, and please buy my book.
SFX:
(Verity and Tom laugh)
Tom:
And Bob.
Bob:
You can find me online with BuzzerBob, and if you wanna check out the Game Show Marathon, it's GameShowMarathon.com.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also join the Lateral Producer's Club and send in your own ideas for questions. We are @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are full video episodes every week on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Bob Hagh.
Bob:
Thank you for having me!
Tom:
Verity Babbs.
Verity:
Cheers!
Tom:
Rosalie Minnitt.
Rosalie:
Thank you!
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Luka, Jovi Thorne, Oisín, Edmund Plamowski, Katie Waning, Bob Weisz |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |