Get the RSS feed or search “Lateral” on your podcast app
Episode 198: The impossible photograph
24th July, 2026 • Ella Hubber, Caroline Roper and Tom Lum from 'Let's Learn Everything!' face questions about academic admissions, eight-legged equines and five-dollar flights.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom Scott:
In the UK, a light must wait two minutes after a medium, and a medium must wait three minutes after a super, in what circumstances?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
(pokes in from off-mic)
Sorry, we- with you in a second. Give me a moment. Sorry.
Tom Lum:
Oh, yeah, no worries, no worries.
Tom Scott:
Somewhere here. Is that...
SFX:
(stationery clattering)
Tom Scott:
Nope. No, that's the receipts.
Hang on. Gonna— Give me a minute. Give me a sec.
SFX:
(metal clattering)
Ella:
This is very unprofessional.
Tom Scott:
I'm fine. I'm fine.
Caroline:
Honestly.
Tom Scott:
Fine. It's fine. I'm— Aaah!
SFX:
(hard thud)
(paper rustling)
Tom Lum:
(stifles wheeze)
Tom Scott:
(holds up paper) Found it! Found it.
Ella:
(sighs) We all—
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline giggle)
Tom Scott:
Right. Sorry. Yep. Yep, we're fine.
Caroline:
Uh-huh.
Tom Scott:
We're fine. Right. Hello! (breathes heavily) Welcome to Lateral.
Caroline:
(wheezes)
Tom Scott:
The podcast where... everything runs like clockwork. Provided your clock is powered by vibes and loose paperwork.
Sorry, sorry about that. Just a brief professional delay while I located my script and my sense of purpose. Today we have three wonderful guests.
SFX:
(guests laugh heartily)
Tom Scott:
Waiting patiently while I performed what can only be described as an interpretative dance about preparedness.
It is the folks from Let's Learn Everything. Welcome back to the show. We will start with Ella Hubber.
Ella:
Hello! Thank you for having us.
Tom Scott:
How are you doing, Ella?
Ella:
I'm so fantastic. Are you— That was great physical comedy. I really liked the little legs up at the end.
Tom Scott:
Thanks! I put cushions down in advance and did a full breakfall onto the floor.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ella:
We were—
Tom Scott:
Properly slapped the floor.
Ella:
We were dead silent after you fell though.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Ella:
And everyone's just like, "What do we do here?"
Tom Lum:
Can I tell you, Tom – and this is peek behind the curtains, I hate to do this – we had a bit planned also, and I think that bit knocked our bit a little asunder.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Caroline:
Our bit's gone.
Ella:
I can't do it.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
Hey, Tom, you out-bit-ed us. Congratulations.
Caroline:
Yay!
SFX:
(guests applauding)
Tom Scott:
That is difficult. Tom Lum, as I think, king of bits, thank you very much for that accolade.
Tom Lum:
Too kind. Too kind. These two are more kind for putting up with it.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
There's such a thing as too far. There's such a thing as too much.
Tom Scott:
And Caroline Roper, I'm gonna put the serious stuff onto you. Do you wanna plug the podcast and live show, and explain for new listeners who you are, and what Let's Learn Everything is?
Caroline:
Yeah. So we're Let's Learn Everything, which is a science and comedy podcast where we are trying to learn literally anything and everything interesting. And we are doing a live show soon as well! We're doing it on the 13th of October at The Bedford in London. You can find tickets at letslearneverything.com/live.
Tom Lum:
Maybe one of us will do a pratfall.
SFX:
(both Toms laugh)
Ella:
Come and see us.
Tom Scott:
Incredible plug.
Right, everyone is here. The microphone is on. The chair has stopped squeaking. Let's pretend that every single error in this show is just as intentional... and move briskly onto question one.
This question has been sent in by Jagan.
In 2007, Jagan was thrilled to be offered a college campus placement. He reached into his pocket and texted his mother to say that he'd been selected. However, upon reading the message, his mother was heartbroken. Why?
And one more time.
In 2007, Jagan was thrilled to be offered a college campus placement. He reached into his pocket and texted his mother to say that he'd been selected. However, upon reading the message, his mother was heartbroken. Why?
Ella:
(exhales stiffly)
Tom Lum:
It's gotta be a pun. It's gotta be like "M-I-T"? (laughs) "Am I the T?" But it's MIT, right? It's gotta be some name of the school sounds like...
Ella:
Yeah. Oh, that's a good one.
Caroline:
That was the most clasping at straws I've ever seen.
Tom Scott:
(laughs uproariously)
Caroline:
Wow.
Tom Lum:
I mean, my example was bad, but I think the premise is—
Caroline:
Yeah? Okay, no. The premise, good. What just happened, eh.
Ella:
Yeah, it was better than my idea, which is like auto-cor— it auto-corrected the name of the school to 'dead' or something.
Caroline:
Ooh.
Tom Lum:
Ooh.
Ella:
"I'm dead, I'm dying."
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline guffaw)
Tom Scott:
I mean, Ella, you talked down your own guess there. Honestly, not that far away.
Tom Lum:
The goal. Bump, set, spike.
Ella:
Oh, okay. "I have cancer." Is the— Was the message that caused that!
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom Scott:
Sorry, I didn't— Sorry, for a moment, my brain thought that was just an admission.
SFX:
(guests laugh uproariously)
Tom Scott:
That was just... suddenly bringing down the tone of the podcast there.
Ella:
This is my last Lateral show. I just wanted you guys to know.
Caroline:
(stifles laugh)
Tom Lum:
Uh, yeah.
Tom Scott:
I feel like I need to just touch wood and do all sorts of superstitious things just to make sure that doesn't come true now.
Ella:
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Tom Lum:
Harvard. Hard— Harv— Harv— Yale— Yell!
Ella:
So it's an autocorrect situation, where the name of the school becomes something not good.
Tom Lum:
Columbia.
Tom Scott:
This is 2007.
Ella:
Okay, so not autocorrect.
Tom Scott:
It is not to do with the name of the place.
Tom Lum:
Are you sure you don't want us to continue listing schools in a funny way to see where we can make puns?
Ella:
I'm glad I'm not good at puns.
Tom Lum:
"I'm in..." Like, "I made it." Is it— So maybe a phrase like that? "Got— I got in"?
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Wait. It's not— In 2007, smartphones aren't a thing yet, are they?
Tom Scott:
They're not, no.
Caroline:
I'm thinking about having to press three times to get a letter in, but not pressing the right number of times.
Tom Lum:
Oh, T9, yeah.
Ella:
Ohhh.
Tom Scott:
T9 texting, yes.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Caroline:
There we go.
Tom Scott:
Although that's not quite pressing the letter multiple times, Caroline.
Caroline:
It's pressing the button on the phone multiple times to get to the letter—
Tom Scott:
No. No, it's not.
Caroline:
Oh no? Oh? Oh?
Tom Scott:
That's not T9. T9 is a very specific thing.
Ella:
Oh, I don't—
Caroline:
Ooh.
Tom Scott:
I'm gonna ask you to reach back to your texting days. You're right that this is one of those old-school phones with a keypad and multiple letters on each number.
Ella:
Uh-huh.
Caroline:
Would like to clarify, what year was this again?
Tom Scott:
2007. If you say you weren't born yet, I'm going to walk off here.
Tom Lum:
(laughs uproariously)
Caroline:
I was nine years old at that point then.
Tom Lum:
That hurt even me.
Ella:
I had a phone like this. I had a phone like this.
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Yeah. I had a Motorola Razr.
Ella:
I had— yeah, I had a Motorola Razr. What a banging phone, mate.
Caroline:
I wasn't going to have a phone for another three years, so...
Tom Lum:
Well, so wait, but— Wait, so it's not— But I thought, is T9 not pressing the numbers multiple?
Caroline:
Yeah!
Tom Lum:
Like, da-da-da?
Tom Scott:
No, that's a standard text entry on phones. I find it really interesting that you have remembered the name of T9, but not what it actually did.
Caroline:
But yeah.
Tom Lum:
Huh.
Ella:
Is it you just hold the button?
Tom Scott:
You were talking about auto-correct, and it's not that, but it's—
Ella:
Oh, you type the numbers in— you— and it translates that into a word that it thinks it is.
Tom Scott:
Yes.
Tom Lum:
So you don't have to press it multiple times. It, like, smart guesses...
Caroline:
(gasps)
Tom Scott:
Yep.
Tom Lum:
Ohhh?
Ella:
Okay, so ma— So if we can think of it, if we can reverse engineer like, "I got in"...
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Ella:
Into, what are the letters— I don't have the time or capacity for this.
Tom Lum:
(chuckles) "I got in" – "Hail Satan".
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
He only sent one word.
Ella:
I— Oh, "yes"?
Tom Lum:
Accepted.
Tom Scott:
Acc— it's very close to "accepted", yes.
Ella:
In?
Tom Scott:
He had been "chosen".
Ella:
Chosen.
Tom Lum:
Chosen.
Ella:
Did he just put "chosen"? He put "chosen"?
Tom Scott:
Mhm.
Ella:
Wait, okay, wait.
Tom Lum:
Let me pull up a T9, yeah.
Caroline:
Selected...
Tom Scott:
Selected, Caroline!
Ella:
Oh, "selected".
Tom Scott:
Yes.
Caroline:
Ooh, okay.
Ella:
S-E-L-E-C-T-E-D.
Tom Lum:
Okay.
Tom Scott:
So he's taken out his phone. He's very quickly typed in the word—
Tom Lum:
"Rejected".
Tom Scott:
"Rejected"! Spot on, Tom Lum.
Ella:
I was gonna do some—
Tom Scott:
Absolutely right.
Ella:
I'd written it down.
Caroline:
Wow.
Ella:
I was gonna do some fun... Maybe there's an anagram there, something rubbish.
Caroline:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom Lum:
Wait, this is the location of the real Declaration of Independence?
SFX:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Scott:
Yes. "Selected" and "rejected" have the same key pattern on T9 phones. So you need to check and hit the "next word" button if one of them is wrong. My favourite example of this is typing in "Smirnoff" and getting "poisoned".
Tom Lum:
Ohoho, ohoho.
Ella:
Nice.
Tom Lum:
Oh, I gotta make— Someone either has or I should make an algorithm for other words it could have made.
Tom Scott:
Yep.
Tom Lum:
That's a fun...
Tom Scott:
Yes. This is a personal anecdote, as you may have suspected, from Jagen, who texted the word "selected" to his mother but actually texted the word "rejected".
Caroline:
Awwh.
Ella:
Oh, dear.
Tom Scott:
Tom, we will go to your question please.
Tom Lum:
Fantastic.
This question has been sent in by Rotar.
In the PC game Golfing Over It, there are no checkpoints on the entire climb, but the game saves the ball's position automatically. The game is also saved if a lesser-used key is pressed. Which one, and why?
I'll say that again.
In the PC game Golfing Over It, there are no checkpoints on the entire climb, but the game saves the ball's position automatically. The game is also saved if a lesser-used key is pressed. Which one, and why?
Ella:
A lesser-used key, meaning... you don't not use it for the normal controls of the game, I would assume.
Tom Lum:
Correct.
Ella:
Well then it could just be any— I assume it's like a WASD pad kind of game.
Tom Lum:
So I believe it uses the mouse, I believe is the main controls for this game.
Caroline:
Oh, interesting. Okay.
Ella:
Well then, it could be anything.
Tom Scott:
(chuckles)
Tom Lum:
It could be, yeah.
Caroline:
Oh— (belly laughs)
Tom Lum:
I'll say, figuring out sort of... the hints of what the game is will give you a hint as to the type of game. So that could help you.
Tom Scott:
Golfing Over It.
Tom Lum:
Yes.
Tom Scott:
Okay, so it's a golf game. If it's not a golf game, that's a very bad title.
Tom Lum:
It is, but there's— It's a golf twist on something, if you are familiar with—
Tom Scott:
Yeah, well you said climb.
Tom Lum:
I did. (wheezes)
Caroline:
Golfing Over It gives the vibe of like, you have to shoot the ball over like a mountain or like a six-metre hill. Throwback to the last episode we did.
SFX:
(guessers chuckling)
Tom Lum:
Oh, I think... Ella and Caroline will have... Ella perhaps more would have run into this game. It's a pastiche on a famous game. A relatively modern indie game.
Caroline:
It's not the game where you have the...
Tom Lum:
Oh?
Caroline:
the axe, and then you have to throw it
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Caroline:
and then hold, and then you pull yourself forwards. Is it— I don't know the name of that game.
Ella:
Oh, yes. What's that— I can't remember what it's— what that game is called.
Tom Lum:
You're exactly right, Caroline.
Caroline:
(sighs vocally) I don't know where that came from.
Tom Lum:
Do you know this, Tom?
Tom Scott:
Lost on me, sorry.
Caroline:
This is— I've seen clips of this on TikTok.
Ella:
Oh, it's where it's a guy. He's in like a cauldron.
Tom Lum:
Yes, he is.
Caroline:
Yes, he is!
Ella:
And he has an ax or something, like a sledgehammer, and he swings it, and that hooks onto things, and you pull yourself up, and you go up, and up, and up, and up, and up into space basically.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Ella:
So you're golfing upwards then.
Tom Lum:
Yes.
Ella:
Is that the idea? Onto different platforms?
Tom Lum:
Yes. So I'll say, what is this game known for, aside from your peculiar description of it?
Caroline:
If you miss or something like that, you go all the way back down again. And people get very, very upset about it.
Tom Lum:
This game is called Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy. Bennett Foddy, a tremendous experimental indie...
Caroline:
Oh my god, Golfing Over It. Okay, yeah.
Tom Lum:
Game dev, yeah. And it is a meditation on difficulty. Like, that's— the original game is purposefully about being an extremely difficult game.
Ella:
Is it like...
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah.
Ella:
When you fall... and— or when the golf ball falls, you slam your keyboard in frustration... so you have to have a key that isn't gonna be slammed in frustration?
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Lum:
You're getting close to... You're very close. And I wonder if Tom can— has some thoughts on keyboard and...
Tom Scott:
Yeah, so... So you're climbing a mountain.
Tom Lum:
Yes. You're hitting a golf ball up.
Tom Scott:
And also hitting a golf ball up the mountain. Are you also the character climbing, or are you ju— or is it just a golf ball and—
Tom Lum:
I think you're the golf ball.
Tom Scott:
Okay, you are the golf ball.
Tom Lum:
And you're hitting up, yeah.
Ella:
It's not mountain, right? It's like platform, a platform up. Is that right?
Tom Lum:
I think it starts as a mountain, and then eventually becomes platforms. But the goal is to reach the very top.
Tom Scott:
So there are no checkpoints. So if you mi—
Tom Lum:
Correct.
Tom Scott:
Which must be almost impossible.
Ella:
(chuckles)
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
These games were famous for streamers playing them, and then having these truly horrific... like you fall all the way to literally the start of the game, and you have to start over.
Tom Scott:
Okay, and if you miss one of the platforms with the golf ball, you're going all the way back to the start. You're gonna be angry.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Not meaning to say the obvious thing. Have you considered not playing this game? This does not seem like...
SFX:
(guests laugh uproariously)
Tom Scott:
This does not seem like a good game.
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Lum:
Listen.
Tom Scott:
I don't know much about game design, but it feels like that's bad game design!
Tom Lum:
It is— The first one was— And again, genuinely about why we do difficult th— I think the first one was
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
really sort of like an actual— and I think some of the variations of it may have lost the plot a little bit.
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
But there's something there.
Tom Scott:
It doesn't save at any point unless...
Tom Lum:
So it saves automatically. Because...
Caroline:
Right.
Tom Lum:
In many ways, saving is bad. So you can't, for example, there's a term I think called 'save scumming' where you save before a big important thing, so that if you mess up, you can go back. So you can't do that here.
Tom Scott:
So you said it saves if there's a certain key press or something else.
Ella:
Is it like a punny or like supposed to be funny saving thing? Like, you have to press L to save, to indicate you are a loser?
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
No, no, no, no. It is funny, and... But the point is that... So the game saves automatically, every so often, and... that's unfortunate as a player, 'cause you kind of wish it saved whenever you wanted.
Tom Scott:
Right.
Tom Lum:
But this manu— quote, unquote, "manual save" happens at an inopportune time, I would say.
Caroline:
So mid-fall, it might save for you if you're like... But you said it was
Tom Lum:
That could happen.
Caroline:
a not-used key.
Tom Scott:
Is this definitely a key on the keyboard of the player?
Tom Lum:
It is.
Tom Scott:
Or is it a key in the game? Okay.
Ella:
Oh, I thought it was like you have to press a certain key note on the piano for— in order for it to hear you.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
So I think getting the mindset—
Tom Scott:
Wait, is it if you hit Escape?
Tom Lum:
Almost. You're almost there.
Tom Scott:
It is like, "Oh, no, the ball is falling."
Tom Lum:
Yes, exactly.
Tom Scott:
You're gonna immediately go for a key to quit, and instead it saves your game.
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline gasp)
Tom Lum:
Exactly. What key is that, I believe specifically on Windows?
Tom Scott:
Alt+F4?
Tom Lum:
So it's specifically the Alt key, will always trigger it.
Caroline:
Ohhh.
Tom Scott:
Ohhh! Because Alt+F4 will close the program.
Tom Lum:
Yes, and so most people hit—
Tom Scott:
"I know what they're doing," save.
Caroline:
Yeah. (gasps)
Tom Lum:
Yeah, yep, uh-huh.
Ella:
Very good. Very good.
Tom Lum:
It's beautifully sinister. Yes, and the developer has confirmed this himself, that this was done purposefully. (laughs)
Ella:
Ah, very good.
Tom Lum:
So yes, on Windows computers, Alt+F4 is a common shortcut that closes the active program. And so this prevents players from trying to quit the game to return to a previous save, in which they were safe.
This is also, any young listeners, why if someone is like, "Hey, here's a way to get free gold in World of Warcraft, if you press Alt+F4," and then the game quits.
Caroline:
Ohh. (laughs)
Ella:
Nice.
Tom Lum:
That's a common troll also.
Tom Scott:
Thank you to Carlos from Zürich for this question.
They Might Be Giants' song "Last Wave" features Aerosmith and Run-DMC in the video. Lyrics include "If you try to make out with a biplane" and "Now you have to buy me some antlers". How was the song written?
I'll say that again.
They Might Be Giants' song "Last Wave" features Aerosmith and Run-DMC in the video. Lyrics include "If you try to make out with a biplane" and "Now you have to buy me some antlers". How was the song written?
Ella:
Whilst incredibly high.
Caroline:
I was gonna say that too! I was gonna say drugs. Drugs. Is that not the answer?
Tom Lum:
I'm a fake They Might Be Giants fan, 'cause I don't know this one off the bat.
Tom Scott:
Oh.
Tom Lum:
I have a thought.
Ella:
I only know one song by them, which is the Malcolm in the Middle theme song.
Tom Lum:
Oh, I didn't realize that was them.
Ella:
(chuckles)
Tom Scott:
Tell me about the band, Tom, if you're the person here who knows about They Might Be Giants.
Tom Lum:
They're silly, but they make great music. There's a song called "Doctor Worm" that's about a worm who's a— not a real doctor, but he does play the drums.
Ella:
(guffaws)
Tom Lum:
They...
Caroline:
Nice.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, so mostly silly-ish songs. But... yeah.
Tom Scott:
Did they do "The Sun Is a Mass of Incandescent Gas", or is that a different weird band?
Tom Lum:
Yes, that was them.
Caroline:
(giggles) Nice.
Tom Lum:
I have a thought.
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
Would the word 'racecar' be in these lyrics?
Tom Scott:
It would not. I mean, it could be, but not specifically.
Tom Lum:
You know what I'm—
Tom Scott:
I think you're thinking of "Weird Al" Yankovic's song "Bob".
Tom Lum:
Okay, yeah. So I thought this— these might be palindromes. And I wouldn't be surprised if these two quirky musicians also did palindrome songs.
Tom Scott:
Yeah. "Weird Al"'s "Bob" is a Bob Dylan pastiche where every line is a palindrome.
Ella:
Oh, that's fun.
Tom Scott:
Because "Bob" is a palindrome.
Tom Lum:
I love that it wasn't just palindromes. He had to— It had to be two bits, which is why he's the best.
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
Okay, my— I'm gonna just put my thoughts out there. The first one was they used some kind of random word generator.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Ooh.
Ella:
And the second one is they translated some kind of piece of literature in a— in very poor translating software.
Tom Lum:
Great guesses. Great guesses.
Caroline:
Ooh, they wrote the lyrics, they then put them into Google in French, and then took those and then converted them back to English, and then put them back in in French, and then converted them back to English, and just did that a bunch of times until they saw what came out of it.
Tom Scott:
Why would they have Aerosmith and Run-DMC in the video then?
Caroline:
For fun. 'Cause they liked them.
Tom Scott:
I will tell you that They Might Be Giants are not in the video for this song.
Ella:
I don't know anything about Aerosmith or Run-DMC, so...
Tom Scott:
Oh, you might be too young to get a reference here.
Ella:
This is from the '90s, this song?
Tom Lum:
♪ ...fall asleep, 'cause I'd miss you baby ♪
Ella:
Oh, yes, okay.
Tom Lum:
♪ And I don't wanna miss a thing ♪
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Ella laugh)
Tom Scott:
It took me a while to figure out, yes, Aerosmith are famous for "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing".
Ella:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
And some other songs.
Caroline:
Oh?
Tom Lum:
Will knowing the songs help? "Dream On".
Tom Scott:
Knowing one specific song will help, yes.
Ella:
I do know Aerosmith, it turns out. I just didn't know which ones they did.
Tom Lum:
It's not "Dream On"?
Caroline:
♪ Dream on ♪
Tom Scott:
It's not "Dream On". You do almost certainly know another Aerosmith song.
Tom Lum:
Now, but the question is, can I parse it from an AC/DC song or a...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Caroline:
These lyrics aren't a response to a song title or something like that, are they?
Tom Scott:
I would say yes, sort of.
Ella:
Oh, it's like a mashup of two of their— of like an Aerosmith song and a Run-DMC song title or something?
Tom Scott:
Are you familiar with the song "Walk This Way"?
Ella:
♪ Walk this way ♪
Tom Lum:
♪ Walk this way ♪
Ella:
♪ Talk this way ♪
Caroline:
♪ Talk this way ♪
Ella:
I like how we all did it. Yes.
Tom Scott:
Yes.
Caroline:
That one.
Tom Scott:
That— What do you know about that song?
Tom Lum:
♪ (hums guitar riff) ♪
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Ella:
Yeah, I know that— I know what it sounds like. That's about as much as I know about it.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Yeah. Keep going about it. What does it sound like? What goes on in that song? Play it through in your head.
Ella:
No, I can't think of anyth— How does the verse go?
Tom Lum:
♪ (scatting verse melody)
Tom Scott:
Yeah, that bit, Tom.
Tom Lum:
Cat and the fiddle?
Caroline:
Are they lyrics that somebody has... thought the lyrics were?
Ella:
Mis— (gasps)
Caroline:
Misheard lyrics?
Tom Lum:
Misheard lyrics.
Tom Scott:
You're getting very close now.
"Walk This Way" is a song by Aerosmith that was later Aerosmith with Run-DMC. The version that I think most people know is Aerosmith and Run-DMC performing that song.
Caroline:
Ohhh.
Tom Scott:
Not quite a mashup, just a cover with the original band doing some of the work.
Ella:
Uh-huh.
Caroline:
Right, yeah, yeah.
Ella:
And it's not— It's misremembered lyrics that—
Tom Scott:
It's not quite misremembered.
Ella:
Or misheard. Sorry. Misheard. No, it's not misheard.
Tom Scott:
Not quite.
Tom Lum:
I'm just glad that my loose gibberish was helpful.
Tom Scott:
Tom, your loose gibberish is very much helpful here. I'll give you this again. They Might Be Giants' song "Last Wave" features Aerosmith and Run-DMC in the video.
Ella:
Oh, it's like a bad lip reading.
Tom Scott:
Yes, it is, Ella!
Tom Lum:
Ohhh!
Tom Scott:
It is not just a bad lip reading. It is a bad everything reading.
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Scott:
It is the band watching the video for "Walk This Way".
Tom Lum:
No!
Tom Scott:
Which is iconic for anyone who was around at the time, because it is Aerosmith in one room, Run-DMC in the other, banging on the walls, being angry at each other as the song plays, and they do their various parts.
And They Might Be Giants watched the video, lip-synced new lyrics exactly for that song, and make surreal references to whatever's going on in the video. Synthesizer hits play when one of them hits the wall.
It is an entire song based around the Run-DMC video that as far as I know they do not have the rights to use as the official video.
SFX:
(Caroline and Tom Lum laugh)
Ella:
Wow.
Tom Lum:
Wow, that's beautiful. That's awesome. That's art.
Caroline:
That's so cool. Yeah.
Tom Lum:
We should do that with an episode of Lateral.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
Caroline, we will go to you, please.
Caroline:
This question has been sent in by Kate.
Before going on a voyage, Kate takes an old cassette tape and breaks it apart. She also buys a bottle of laundry detergent and cuts it up. Why?
One more time.
Before going on a voyage, Kate takes an old cassette tape and breaks it apart. She also buys a large bottle of laundry detergent and cuts it up. Why?
Tom Lum:
She's a laundry spy.
SFX:
(others chuckling)
Ella:
There's some—
Tom Lum:
A spy for a rival laundry agency. Broke the tape, message will self-destruct.
Tom Scott:
Now, for the younger people on this call, a cassette tape is— No, sorry.
Caroline:
Wow. Wow. Okay, okay!
Ella:
This is gonna be some kinda life hack, right?
Tom Scott:
Mhm.
Ella:
Like...
Tom Scott:
Absolutely. It's gotta be.
Ella:
What's something aren't— you don't— that's hard to come by on a cruise or... No, a voyage. You said a voyage. You didn't say a cruise.
Caroline:
I did say voyage. Yeah.
Ella:
I just assumed. I was like, yeah, she's going on a cruise, or...
Tom Lum:
A voyage to space?
Ella:
Oh. The Voyager— She's going on the Voyager?
Caroline:
No?
Tom Lum:
Dang. Come on!
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Lum:
Let me live in that space for a little bit.
Tom Scott:
Breaking up an old cassette tape is gonna give you... (sighs) some weird sprockets and things, but mostly...
Tom Lum:
Tape.
Tom Scott:
a load of old plastic tape
Ella:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
that you can wrap 'round things, tie up things... stretch out along a long distance. It's a lot of tape.
Caroline:
I think you might be overestimating the sturdiness of the tape here as well.
Tom Scott:
Ooh, okay.
Tom Lum:
Oh?
Caroline:
It's kinda not that strong.
Ella:
Lots of broken up bits of tape.
Tom Lum:
Yeah. It's the three of us sitting around this table trying to MacGyver this into something useful.
Ella:
Yeah, trying to imagine it.
Tom Lum:
"I need a crossbow!"
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
Let's see. Laundry detergent. Cut in half, you said?
Caroline:
I said it was cut up.
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
I'm like, is that a space saving thing for travel? Yeah.
Tom Scott:
So that's gonna give you a concave... surface... that you can wrap some tape around.
Tom Lum:
I did imagine for a second, one of those really bad life hack videos, where it's like, that wasn't necessary! Where it's like, "And this is how you defrost a pizza", and then you're wrapping the tape around the pizza, and then you pour it on, and you start getting shards on it.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Caroline:
These are two separate tools that Kate might find useful.
Tom Lum:
Is this a normal voyage? Would this be useful for us on a voyage?
Ella:
Yeah, 'voyage' seems like a very deliberate word choice there. Does it— Is it a kind of trav— like sea voyage?
Caroline:
It could be.
Tom Scott:
That's not helpful!
Ella:
Nah, now you know how it feels.
Caroline:
(laughs haughtily)
Tom Scott:
Three times an episode(!)
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
Oh, we should start doing a cryptic one at the start for Tom Scott to mull over until the end. We'll do that next time.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
Why would you break apart the cassette tape when that's just gonna leave you with something that is... really tricky to deal with? Unless you need a ball of tape, that stuff's gonna tangle so quickly.
Caroline:
Doesn't matter if it tangles. That's okay. It's still useful for this purpose.
Tom Lum:
Oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh. Is it like a good fire starter?
Caroline:
No.
Tom Lum:
Oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Is it shiny, if you're lost at sea, and you wanna reflect an SOS signal?
Caroline:
You're like...
Ella:
Huh.
Caroline:
You're getting closer to...
Tom Lum:
Okay.
Caroline:
to what might be needed here.
Tom Scott:
Some sort of emergency supply, some sort of last ditch effort.
Tom Lum:
A Hansel and Gretel trail.
Caroline:
No.
Tom Lum:
If you get lost. Okay.
Tom Scott:
You are heading out into the wilderness for something.
Ella:
Is the detergent bottle to collect water or something?
Caroline:
If it's a cut-up bottle of detergent, it's not there to collect water, but what might it be used for?
Ella:
Keep water off you?
Caroline:
Ella...
Ella:
(shudders loudly)
SFX:
(both Toms laugh)
Caroline:
Elaborate on that one. Keep going down that route.
Ella:
I don't know. I was going to say a hat, but then just bring a hat, you know?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
Right?
Tom Lum:
Is it like a self-contained underwater breathing apparatus that we can concoct?
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Caroline:
If you're on a boat, what don't you want to happen?
Tom Lum:
Now we're on a boat. Okay, good.
Ella:
So we are on a boat?
Caroline:
You're on a boat. You're on a voyage. You're on a boat.
Tom Lum:
I want the boat to not sink.
Caroline:
You want your boat to not sink?
Ella:
Oh, it's to get— Oh, well, again, I was gonna say it's to—
Tom Lum:
To get water out of the boat?
Ella:
Get water out, but then— But why would you not just have a bucket?
Caroline:
(belly laughs)
Think about the shape of a laundry detergent bottle. Especially I think this is more closely akin to what Americans might have for laundry detergent bottles, although I'm sure the Brits have this as well.
Tom Scott:
Well, I think the British equivalent would be one of those, like a six-pint milk bottle or something like that, right? It's got a big old handle on it.
Caroline:
Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Tom Lum:
Oh, the handle. Okay.
Ella:
Oh, is it the handle just helpful for scooping water out of the boat?
Caroline:
Ella, that's exactly it on the laundry detergent side.
Tom Lum:
No. No, what?
Caroline:
No?
Ella:
Again, it's just, have a tool for that on your boat.
Tom Scott:
Have a bucket.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
Well, it's not your fault, Caroline.
Tom Lum:
(laughs uproariously)
Caroline:
Thank you.
Tom Lum:
No, hold on. We're not done yet. We can turn around. We can turn around. Okay, the tape. The tape.
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Lum:
(whinnies)
SFX:
(guests laugh heartily)
Tom Lum:
What is the tape used for? Is it also for the sinking boat?
Caroline:
The boat's fine now.
Ella:
Yeah, we got the water off the boat, and now—
Tom Lum:
We're playing in a role-playing game. We're playing, we're dragging my items from my inventory. We've saved the boat, so now what do we do?
Caroline:
What things do smaller boats have if you are on a boat?
Tom Lum:
A sail.
Ella:
Sails?
Caroline:
A sail. So what do sails need to help move the boat?
Tom Lum:
Ropes and pulleys?
Ella:
Wind.
Caroline:
Wind. What might loose cassette tape help you with?
Tom Lum:
It tells you the direction of the wind?
Caroline:
It tells you the direction of the wind.
Ella:
Oh my god, come on! There's gotta be a—
Tom Lum:
Bye, everyone. Bye!
Caroline:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom Lum:
This was so nice. This was really— And again, Tom, really nice to see you again, but that's it. Bye.
Ella:
There's gotta be a better way!
Tom Scott:
These are boat life hacks.
Caroline:
These are some boat life hacks for you. Yeah, that's exactly it.
Ella:
If you have the money to own and operate a boat, you have the money to— for the tools in which to get water out of the boat and look at the wind.
Caroline:
Kate disagrees. Kate says, "I'm a varsity college sailor, and nearly everyone in Division 1 sailing uses these two rather strange hacks."
Ella:
I guess it's a very small boat, right? So it's not like, it's...
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah.
Ella:
than if it's like
Tom Scott:
Oh.
Ella:
a racing sailing boat or something like that.
Tom Scott:
Oh, this is like a one-person sailing boat. Like, this is not a voyage across the sea.
Ella:
That—
Caroline:
No.
Tom Scott:
This is when you need a tiny thing to remove a bit of water.
Ella:
Okay. Okay, Kate.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
And you're a student, so you don't want to spend money on something big and professional to do it.
Caroline:
There you go!
Ella:
I take it back, Kate. Well, good job.
Tom Lum:
This makes sense. I also realize, and maybe this is just purely me, I realize that, of course, when the tape is in the tape, it's really compact, and then you break it. In my mind, they broke it, and then they were just carrying around this tangled mess.
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Caroline:
A handful of tape. (laughs heartily) No, you have control over this.
Tom Lum:
But if it's compact, then it's actually, that's actually pretty good.
Ella:
Oh, you bring the tape with you, and you unspool it when you need it. You don't just complete— just hold a—
Caroline:
You're not just holding— (laughs)
Ella:
I was picturing a handful of just tape.
Tom Lum:
Yeah. Okay, that's actually pretty good.
Caroline:
But it would still be functional if you held onto it. So, to summarise: The breaking the cassette tape, pulls out some tape, which you can then use to figure out which direction the wind is blowing. Really helpful for your sails.
Tom Lum:
Okay, actually cool.
Caroline:
The laundry detergent, if you cut it up, makes a makeshift bailer, which you can then use to scoop water out of your boat.
Tom Lum:
Okay. Alright, okay.
Ella:
I'm really sorry, Kate. It's a good idea.
Caroline:
Yeah, apologise to Kate now.
Ella:
I'm sorry, Kate.
Tom Scott:
Sorry, Kate.
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline giggle)
Tom Scott:
This next question comes from Noah Goob.
In 1848, 16-year-old Homan Walsh flew his kite 'Union' in Ontario for many hours until it got stuck in a tree overlooking a gorge. Homan was delighted, as was an engineer, who awarded him $5. Why?
Tom Lum:
It went on for so long. It went on for so long!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Lum:
It kept making turns!
Tom Scott:
I'll say that again.
In 1848, 16-year-old Homan Walsh flew his kite 'Union' in Ontario for many hours until it got stuck in a tree overlooking a gorge. Homan was delighted, as was an engineer, who awarded him $5. Why?
Tom Lum:
(sobs) This is— I feel like I'm losing my mind! That was such a...
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
I think the last question has set us off slightly.
Tom Lum:
Oh, god!
Ella:
Just take a deep breath, Tom.
Tom Lum:
I was in the sky, I was a kite then. I was a 16-year-old, then there was a gorge, and then an engineer! (laughs)
Caroline:
And you were happy, and you got $5.
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh)
Tom Scott:
The weird thing is I looked at this question and thought, "Someone's gonna clock this immediately," and I was wrong!
Tom Lum:
No!
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Ella:
My first assumption is, like... I mean, this is too late, but my first feeling was, like, Benjamin Franklin with a key and a kite. You see it, right?
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Ella:
That was Hamilton lyrics, which is not cool.
Tom Scott:
It was. It's not. And I had to stop myself from rattling off the entire rest of that song immediately.
SFX:
(Ella and Tom Lum chuckle snidely)
Ella:
But yeah, it got caught up in this tree. Got struck by lightning or something like that, but not that.
Tom Scott:
No, not that.
Tom Lum:
Is— Why'd we get the name of the kite? The kite was named Union? (wheezes softly)
Tom Scott:
The name of the kite is... (chuckles) very slightly a clue.
Tom Lum:
Okay, sure.
Caroline:
Oh.
Ella:
Was this a— Where was this? Did you tell us where this was? Oh, it was Canada.
Caroline:
Ontario. Not far away from a gorge, apparently.
Ella:
Was the kite called Union 'cause it was a Union Jack? And... there was something... I don't know. What? Is an engineer—
Caroline:
They were trying to get the flag to the highest point that they could possibly get it to, and flying it as a kite was the way to do it. And then some engineer was like, "We've been trying to build up to that point for months, kid. Here, have $5."
Ella:
Well.
Tom Scott:
Honestly, Caroline, kinda close with that one.
Caroline:
You know, I have said so many stupid things...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Caroline:
today, thinking that they wouldn't be.
Ella:
That's just how it goes, isn't it?
Caroline:
Yeah.
Ella:
It's just how it goes.
Tom Scott:
The engineer's project could not start until this happened.
Tom Lum:
Did the kite go across the gorge, thus letting them build a bridge across—
Ella:
With— On a kite string. Build a bridge from this kite string.
Tom Lum:
I mean, no, but, like, get the first rope across.
Ella:
Right. Right, right, right, right.
Tom Lum:
'Cause then you can—
Caroline:
It was unclaimed land, and they had to have some kind of flag on it to claim it. And therefore, having the Union Jack claimed it.
Tom Scott:
Tom, you've got most of this.
Tom Lum:
Okay.
Caroline:
What?
Tom Scott:
You're right. This was to start a bridge.
Ella:
Oh?
Tom Scott:
The first thing they have to do is pull one cable.
Caroline:
Ooh?
Tom Scott:
There's a few details I'm gonna... ask you to drill down on.
Caroline:
So the kite's on the other side now. So you've got one end of your kite on one side of the gorge, your other end the kite on the other side. Somebody could be on the other side.
Tom Scott:
Yep.
Caroline:
So all you'd have to do is attach the cable to the other— to the stringy end of your kite. Somebody at the kity end of your kite then just has to pull it, and that pulls across a cable
Tom Scott:
Yes.
Caroline:
across the gorge, which starts your process.
Tom Scott:
And then you can get a bigger one, and a bigger one, and a bigger one.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Yep. But you have to get that cable over to start with.
Tom Lum:
What are we missing here?
Tom Scott:
So you've got the why.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
I'm not convinced you've got the what here yet. There's still a few clues in that question.
Tom Lum:
Was this across, I don't know where Ontario is geographically close to. Is it close to America? Was this, like, crossing a border to America?
Tom Scott:
Yes. Yes, it was.
Caroline:
Oh.
Tom Lum:
Is this related to Niagara Falls at all?
Tom Scott:
It is, Tom!
Ella:
Ohhh.
Caroline:
There we go.
Tom Scott:
Yes. This was the world's first railway suspension bridge, and it was across the Niagara.
Ella:
Wow.
Caroline:
Whoa.
Tom Lum:
I guess it's a gorge, technically. (laughs)
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
I feel like that's a real—
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Yep. Ontario, near a gorge. And Homan spent many hours doing this because this was a contest. He was not the only person flying kites.
Caroline:
Ohhh!
Tom Lum:
Oh.
Caroline:
You see, in my head, it was just some kid had a kite, accidentally did it.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Caroline:
And some random engineer came up and was like, "Have $5." But no. That was a reward for getting your kite over the gorge.
Tom Scott:
And that kite name was a clue, 'Union', because that is the border between Canada and the United States. And they were building a bridge across it.
Caroline:
Nice.
Tom Scott:
Homan was successful on his second attempt. He was awarded a $5 prize, which doesn't sound like much, but... inflation calculators, purchasing power calculators are complicated. But that would be roughly about $3,000 today.
Tom Lum:
Ohhh? Not bad for some kite work.
Tom Scott:
If you put $5 in a bank, not $3,000, but the equivalent of being given $5 to a 16-year-old then...
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
That's about $3,000 today. That one kite string then pulls a bigger cable and a bigger cable and a bigger cable, and eventually you have the world's first railway suspension bridge.
Ella:
Wow.
Tom Lum:
I'm still stuck on the gorge as a misleading— as like, I'm sure there's tons of geologists who wanna visit it for the gorge, and they're like, "Oh, these waterfall heads."
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
"They're taking all the glory. It's the gorge that's important!"
Tom Scott:
The bridge was pulled down a few decades later. It's been replaced since, but that was the very first.
Tom Lum:
Wow.
Tom Scott:
Ella, over to you please.
Ella:
This question has been sent in by Jeff Wright.
In 1943, Edwin took a photograph of his daughter while on holiday. She asked a simple question about the picture that eventually led to the creation of something once thought impossible. What did she ask, and what was created?
Once more.
In 1943, Edwin took a photograph of his daughter while on holiday. She asked a simple question about the picture that eventually led to the creation of something once thought impossible. What did she ask, and what was created?
Tom Lum:
Looked at the picture and said, "Father, can we split the atom?" And then...
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
Nuclear energy, yada-yada.
Tom Scott:
I'm not sure it was Edwin Oppenheimer.
Tom Lum:
(chuckles) I also think the timing's off by a year or two.
Tom Scott:
Yeah, just a little.
Ella:
Also, it was Lise Meitner who discovered that you could split the atom, not—
Tom Lum:
Thank you, thank you.
Ella:
Just want you to know!
Caroline:
Wow. (laughs)
Ella:
She doesn't get enough credit.
Tom Lum:
(chuckles)
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Tom Scott:
Actually, I was really defensive there. I've never heard that name before, and actually that is on me.
Caroline:
Yeah. Yeah, Tom.
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
"Say, what if we used a computer to digitize this image here?"
Tom Scott:
Ooh.
Tom Lum:
"That'd be pretty cool, the internet." And then her eyes rolled back in her head, and she was like, "Don't invest in Twitter. It will go bad." All these future things.
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Ella:
It was 1943.
Tom Lum:
Yeah. She got future visions.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Scott:
Okay, but not digital camera, but some sort of image manipulation thing? Like I'm not saying Photoshop that early.
Caroline:
Mm.
Tom Scott:
But maybe there's something about... why can't we... Why is it in black and white, or something like that.
Caroline:
Ooh.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Why can't— Maybe she was wearing a really bright dress that day and was like, "Oh, why does that, why does it look gray?"
Ella:
It's not the subject of the photo.
Tom Scott:
Oh, also, colour photography was a thing by then. Admittedly with I think a red-green-blue process.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
But, of c— no. Sorry, Technicolor was a thing by 1943.
Tom Lum:
Yeah. I mean, there's always advancements to it that are happening, but yeah.
Ella:
You said a word there though, Tom, that is pretty key.
Tom Scott:
Did I?
Ella:
To this. Not key, but it can help you.
Caroline:
Technicolor?
Ella:
No, nothing to do with colour.
Tom Lum:
Three-dimensional movies, moving pictures.
Ella:
I'm just gonna give it to you. It was a p— It was the process.
Tom Scott:
Hm. Okay.
Caroline:
Oh, interesting.
Tom Lum:
Oh, ooh, what if I could shake this picture like a Polaroid... picture?
Tom Scott:
Oh! No! No, it's Polaroid. It's Polaroid. "Why did it take so long for me to see that?" Or "why can't I see it right now?"
Ella:
You got it, Tom. You got it, Tom.
Caroline:
Ohhh!
Tom Scott:
Toms. That was To— yeah.
Caroline:
What?
Tom Scott:
That's Toms.
Caroline:
I had nothing to do with that one.
Tom Lum:
No, no. That was a bump-set-spike there.
Ella:
She asked "Why can't I see the photo now?", and that led to Polaroid. So this was an American scientist and inventor called Edwin H. Land, And he was on holiday in Santa Fe with his family. When he photographed his y—
Tom Scott:
I was hoping it was Edwin H. Polaroid.
Ella:
Oh, that would be good.
Caroline:
That would be better. Yeah, yeah.
Ella:
He was on holiday in Santa Fe with his family, when he photographed his young daughter, Jennifer, and she reportedly asked why she couldn't see the photograph right away. And at the time, film photography required developing the image, you know, later in a dark room.
Tom Lum:
Mmmh.
Ella:
And this— So the question kind of prompted him to explore the idea of instant photography, which led to the first practical instant camera and film system. And he did found the Polaroid Corporation.
I don't know where the name comes from... but then their first Polaroid camera, that first instant camera, came out in 1948.
Caroline:
(gasps) That's a quick turnaround. Wow.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
As usual with Let's Learn Everything, we have unlocked the shiny bonus question.
Ella:
Woo.
Tom Lum:
♪ (hums Zelda fanfare) ♪
Caroline:
Yeah!
Tom Scott:
This question comes from Adrian.
When might a horse be described as an octopus?
I'll say it again.
When might a horse be described as an octopus?
Ella:
That's a good one.
Caroline:
I was in my head, as you were asking that, going, "What is the most ridiculous thing that you could possibly say next?"
Tom Scott:
Yes. Yeah.
Caroline:
An octopus was not the thing that my brain went to, so, wonderful.
Tom Lum:
This is, I mean, "For the next question, How is a raven like a writing desk?"
Ella:
That's exactly—
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
It's just, it's so— such a nice riddle feel to it, but I—
Tom Scott:
Well, you did grumble about the length of the Niagara question, so I was like, let's find a really nice short—
Tom Lum:
Is this any better?
Tom Scott:
Let's find a really nice short, simple one.
Ella:
Malicious compliance.
Tom Scott:
Yes.
Caroline:
Yeah.
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh uproariously)
Tom Scott:
Oh, now you say malicious compliance.
Tom Lum:
No.
Tom Scott:
Absolutely nothing to do with the answer.
Ella:
Oh, come on.
Caroline:
(laughs uproariously)
Ella:
You wouldn't do this to other guests.
Tom Lum:
We do this to oursel— We earned this.
Caroline:
We deserve it though.
Tom Lum:
We deserve this.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
My first thought is something in... coding, computer software, Things get weird names.
Caroline:
That's a great suggestion.
Tom Lum:
Two horses... You see them from the side, all four legs are in different directions, look like an octopus.
Ella:
Two horses, one stacked on top of the other.
Caroline:
Octopus.
Ella:
Is it an actual— Can I— Look, maybe this is giving away too much, but is it an actual horse and an actual— like an actual horse in the first instance?
Tom Lum:
Oh, I mean, probably not.
Ella:
Yeah, I would've— I would— But—
Caroline:
Is there a species of octopus that... has the name 'horse' in its species name?
Tom Scott:
I think "two horses"... is both...
Tom Lum:
No.
Tom Scott:
a very accurate thing to say, and also a complete red herring.
Ella:
Okay, well, which—
Tom Scott:
You are not looking for eight legs here.
Ella:
Oh.
Caroline:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
Three hearts.
Ella:
You're looking for... Well, horses— Two horses don't have three hearts.
Tom Lum:
How many... Two horses, three hearts, can't lose. It's like, what?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
Someone says that before the big game. Says, "Alright, guys. Two horses, three hearts. Can't lose!"
Ella:
Not eight legs, but... some other feature that two horses share with one octopus.
Tom Lum:
I was gonna say, Caroline, what do we know about octopuses? Their, how many hearts, how many brains they have?
Caroline:
They, well, they have one central brain, and then their legs just do whatever the heck they wanna do most of the time. Which, like, a horse does that as well, to be fair.
Tom Lum:
How many hearts do they have? We learned this.
Ella:
Three.
Caroline:
I think it's three, yeah.
Tom Scott:
This is, perhaps to no one's surprise, not a literal horse.
Caroline:
Well, what's the point of being here?
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh)
Tom Scott:
But— Well, it's not a living, breathing animal horse. But you will know what this is.
Ella:
A horse.
Caroline:
A taxidermy horse?
Ella:
No, but it's not a literal horse.
Tom Lum:
Oh, boy howdy.
Ella:
What other things are described with (cracks up) with the term 'horse'?
Tom Scott:
What other things are horse? Yes.
Caroline:
A h... A hoarse voice?
Ella:
Your voice, yeah. That's the only thing, is, is it H-O-A-R-S-E? Are we being—
Tom Scott:
Oh, no. No, it's not. Although you wouldn't normally refer to this as "a horse".
Caroline:
Horses.
Ella:
Hah! (cracks up) Oho!
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
Well, yeah.
Ella:
Oh?
Tom Scott:
Two of them in one of two colours.
Tom Lum:
What? (giggles)
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
I mean, maybe four in two colours, really.
Ella:
Oh my—
Tom Lum:
Oh, of course. Of course. Yes, yeah, yeah. That makes more sense.
Ella:
I don't like the smugness
Tom Scott:
(cracks up)
Ella:
with which you give us the clues.
Caroline:
Yeah, same!
SFX:
(scattered giggling)
Tom Scott:
don't like the smugness!
Ella:
(guffaws)
Tom Scott:
You think I like the smugness?!
Caroline:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom Lum:
Maybe a little. Just a little bit.
Caroline:
I love that this question started off so so short, and then just...
Tom Scott:
Yep.
Caroline:
Every time you open your mouth, more comes from it.
Ella:
Four horses.
Tom Lum:
More questions.
Caroline:
Stop growing.
Tom Scott:
I can shut my mouth if you like.
Caroline:
No, please keep going.
Ella:
Oh, god.
Caroline:
Please keep doing this, please.
Tom Scott:
The positioning of the horse is important. And what might those two colours be?
Tom Lum:
(laughs hysterically)
Okay, is it like a chariot? Like a horse-drawn carriage? But that's— that is a literal horse. Is it a picture of a horse on a thing?
Caroline:
A horse toy?
Tom Lum:
Ooh.
Tom Scott:
Toy is closer.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Ella:
Is it a LEGO horse?
Tom Scott:
LEGO horse isn't right, but it's about the right size. We're thinking about that scale.
Ella:
But it's— It is a horse?
Tom Scott:
...Yes.
Caroline:
(guffaws)
Ella:
(growls)
Tom Lum:
Okay. A small horse.
Ella:
(grunts, wheezes)
Tom Scott:
One of two colours.
Caroline:
Black and white?
Tom Scott:
Yes, black and white.
Caroline:
Black and white. Zebras?
Ella:
But that's—
Caroline:
(giggles)
Tom Scott:
You're gonna kick yourselves. I'm being slightly smug 'cause I'm just like you're gonna kick yourselves.
Tom Lum:
Was a zebra warmer or colder?
Tom Scott:
Oh, definitely colder.
Ella:
It's a horse. It's black and white.
Tom Scott:
It's not an entire horse.
Tom Lum:
Oh my god, no! Okay, yeah. Sure, sure, sure.
Tom Scott:
The penny has just dropped. Do you wanna be smug with me, Tom? Or do you wanna just solve this one?
Ella:
Do you know it?
Tom Scott:
Just solve it for us.
Ella:
No, Tom, can you help us? I wanna get it. (wheezes)
Caroline:
Is it a LEGO horse that's been stuck together so it has eight legs?
Tom Lum:
No, no. The name of it is isn't 'horse'. It is the head of a horse. It's the head of a horse about this size.
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
And you play it in a game.
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
And it's chess.
Tom Scott:
And it's chess.
Ella:
Ohhh!
Tom Scott:
So why might you describe the knight in a game of chess as an octopus?
Tom Lum:
Because when you are not up against the side, or when you can move freely, you can move in up to eight pieces— eight spaces, I believe. Is that correct?
Tom Scott:
Yes. In chess, a knight, depicted as a horse, is in the strongest position when it controls the maximum number of squares, eight, somewhere in the middle of the board, and that is known as an 'octopus knight'.
Ella:
I never would have gotten that. We would've been here forever.
Caroline:
I'm actually really unhappy right now.
Tom Lum:
I think it's— Well, okay. I'm clearly biased 'cause I— (laughs)
Ella:
It's good, it's good.
Tom Lum:
I think it's clever.
Tom Scott:
Before Ella and Caroline find a way to throw tomatoes through the internet at me, we will go to the question from the start of the show.
Thank you to Steven W.
In the UK, a light must wait two minutes after a medium, and a medium must wait three minutes after a super. In what circumstances?
Tom Lum:
And you think this is gonna make us not want to throw tomatoes at you?
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
To be clear. (chuckles)
Caroline:
My thought went to... like maximum weight capacities on a bridge, and it's like you've got to give it time to see if the bridge is gonna fall down before the medium goes over.
Ella:
(cracks up)
Caroline:
And then give it time until the super can go over.
Tom Scott:
It's a transport question, yes. It's not a bridge.
Ella:
Oh, well, could light— But is it a load size? Light, medium, super.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, size certainly.
Ella:
Oh, oh, just size.
Tom Scott:
I mean, by definition, the bigger one can carry more, but this is about size.
Tom Lum:
A transport.
Caroline:
Is it so that the loads don't catch up with each other in some way?
Tom Scott:
Not quite.
Ella:
Is it trains?
Tom Scott:
It's not trains.
Tom Lum:
Is it planes?
Tom Scott:
It is planes, Tom. So what might light, medium, and super be, and why might there be different waiting times?
Tom Lum:
Oh, oh, oh, is this on an aircraft carrier that's launching the planes?
Tom Scott:
Not an aircraft carrier.
Ella:
It's just an airport.
Tom Scott:
It's just an airport, yes.
Ella:
Just takeoff times.
Tom Scott:
Mhm.
Caroline:
Yeah, so is it just to do with how quickly the plane can ascend, and then they've got to leave an adequate gap in between the two so they don't bump into each other?
Tom Scott:
Everything about that apart from bumping into each other. 'Cause they— the pilots can avoid that.
Caroline:
They're not gonna do that, yeah.
Tom Scott:
(chuckles)
Ella:
(snickers)
Tom Scott:
Why might you not want a light immediately after a super?
Tom Lum:
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Is it like the draft of the plane behind it or—
Tom Scott:
Yes, it is.
Tom Lum:
Yes!
Tom Scott:
When an airliner takes off, it generates wake vortices, just big old tubes of rotating turbulent air. Especially at low speeds, like takeoff and landing, they can persist, they can drift. Which means that if you are in a lightweight plane... The categories are light, small, medium, heavy, and super.
So if you are in a light, like just a two-person aircraft, and you are for some reason following a super, like a giant A380, you must wait long enough for those vortices to clear, or they can even cause loss of control.
Tom Lum:
Wow. I had no idea.
Caroline:
Whoa.
Tom Scott:
Thank you very much to our players. I mean, I'm just gonna say it.
Tom Lum:
Woo.
Tom Scott:
Plug the show. We'll start with Caroline. Tell us about Let's Learn Everything.
Caroline:
Once again, science comedy podcast where we learn a science and a miscellaneous topic every episode. One host will bring the science topic, The other two hosts will have no clue what they're gonna talk about. So it's a bit of a mystery to the other listeners.
Tom Scott:
Tom, tell us about the live show.
Tom Lum:
It's going to be October 13th, I believe. You can find all the details at letslearneverything.com/live to keep updated on that.
It'll be our first time doing a live show, which it'll be really exciting. It'll be in London. And we're really excited for it.
We'll do— Who knows what we'll do? Maybe we'll do stunts like Tom Scott did at the start of the show.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Ella chuckle)
Tom Scott:
And Ella, where can people go to find out about the show or the tickets?
Ella:
letslearneverything.com/live for the tickets, letslearneverything.com for everything else about us. And please do come, 'cause it will be just as chaotic as we are here.
Tom Lum:
(laughs)
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions and join the Lateral Producer's Club. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are video episodes in full every week on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Ella Hubber.
Ella:
Thank you.
Tom Scott:
Tom Lum.
Tom Lum:
Oh, it's been a pleasure.
Tom Scott:
And Caroline Roper.
Caroline:
Have us back again.
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom Scott:
I'm glad you wanna be back after those questions(!)
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Steven W., Jeff Wright, Kate, Rotar, Jagan, Carlos, Noah Goob, Adrian |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |