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Episode 199: Unburned gasoline
31st July, 2026 • VT Physics, VeeVee and Geoff Marshall face questions about banned building blocks, rampant rhinos and software steps.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Why is Dick Van Dyke not allowed to play with LEGO?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Welcome back to Lateral. A couple of days ago, our producer accidentally ticked a button, and the podcast has been upgraded to include achievements. So far, today's guests have already unlocked 'Arrived On Time', 'Made Eye Contact With Camera', and 'Pretended They Totally Knew What This Show Was Before Arriving', which is probably for the best, because they are all returning players.
Later on, someone will earn 'Confidently Incorrect'. It's probably gonna be me. And if we're lucky, we may see the legendary 'Wild Guess' combo.
Hoping to achieve temporary immunity from follow-up questions, first of all, welcome back to the show, Geoff Marshall.
Geoff:
Hello, Tom. How are you?
Tom:
It's so rare that someone asks.
Geoff:
(laughs)
Tom:
And it's also so rare that someone asks in such a downbeat tone that I assume there's something wrong with me.
Geoff:
How are you? I care. There we go.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
I'm doing okay, Geoff. How's things with you? What have you been working on lately?
Geoff:
More and more long-form documentary-style transport videos. So I'm up to— I'm in big, big edits all over the place on my YouTube channel, but it's all happening.
Tom:
You really are going in for long-form stuff rather than just five minutes to go to the new train station itself.
Geoff:
Yeah, I used to do five minutes at a new train station. Now I'm doing 20, 25, 30 sort of minute deep behind-the-scenes looking at places. That's my new thing. Yeah.
Tom:
We've both made that change, haven't we? Now that I'm, you know— Well... by the time this goes out, hopefully I should be posting new stuff online. We've both gone long-form.
Geoff:
I know.
Tom:
Which does put us in somewhat conflict with most of the videos that our other two players put out.
Firstly from VeeVee TV: VeeVee. Welcome back to the show.
VeeVee:
Hi. Hi, Tom. Hi, everyone. I'm VeeVee TV.
I create short-form content just on kind of daily news, happenings around the world. I kind of call it defrosting my journalism degree one reel at a time.
Tom:
(laughs) There is... so much news. How, how, how, how?
VeeVee:
I know. Honestly? I really just look at things that interest me. So a lot of the times, my viewers will realise that, following me on my Instagram or watching my YouTube shorts, it's kind of just a collection of things that I'm mo— I'm interested in the most.
Tom:
It's not necessarily the top story. It's the top story that'll work for you and the viewers.
VeeVee:
Correct. Correct.
Tom:
Well, good luck on the show today.
The third member of our team is returning, and is also VeeVee's older sister. Welcome back to the show, from VT Physics, VT Physics.
VT:
Hello, Tom. It's great to be back. Thanks for having me on the show again.
Tom:
I didn't realise until just before we went on air that you said you're a physics teacher. That's also your job.
VT:
Yes, that's—
Tom:
Is it easier to deal with secondary school kids or YouTube commenters?
VT:
With YouTube commenters, I can delete them. Whereas I can't delete my pupils.
SFX:
(Tom and VeeVee laugh)
Tom:
Oh, yeah. That's an easy answer to the question. In hindsight, that... Sometimes these questions tee up a long philosophical discussion. Sometimes, no, the kids are harder to deal with. That's fair.
Well, good luck to all three of you on the show today. Time to buff your microphones and check your inventories as we grind for the achievements hidden inside question one.
Thank you to Mira S for this question.
In 2025, how did an axolotl cause a problem for the Bank of Mexico worth 150 million US dollars?
I'll say that again.
In 2025, how did an axolotl cause a problem for the Bank of Mexico worth 150 million US dollars?
Geoff:
Is that a type of fish? Is that what that is? Or am I thinking of something else? I don't know what that word is. What's that word?
SFX:
(Tom and Geoff laugh)
Tom:
An axolotl, A-X-O-L-O-T-L. I'm hoping one of the panel knows what that is.
Geoff:
So this must be that, how I'm gonna go with, top of my head, there's some kind of security feature on the notes at the Bank of Mexico. And an axolotl, whatever it is, is somehow... The image of that was somehow involved in one of the security images on the bank notes. That's a—
Tom:
Now—
Geoff:
Tom's face is like, "You've got it, Geoff!"
SFX:
(others laughing)
Geoff:
And I was completely just going off the top of my head there.
Tom:
You've certainly got some parts of this.
Geoff:
(laughs) Okay.
Tom:
An axolotl— I had to just Google what an axolotl was just to double-check.
Geoff:
Is it a fish?
Tom:
It's technically a mole salamander.
Geoff:
Right.
Tom:
But if you define fish as "thing in the water that swims around a bit", yeah, it's a fish. By the definition of "eh, it's close enough", yeah. So, fish.
Geoff:
And I— My friend Chris, YouTube, actually has one and featured that in one of his videos, and that's the only reason that I somehow knew what that was. Okay, okay.
Tom:
So yes, that's right. And where did you get bank notes from, Geoff? 'Cause that is the right area for this.
Geoff:
Because that's— I just ma— You said Bank of Mexico, right?
Tom:
I did.
Geoff:
Right. So...
Tom:
(laughs)
Geoff:
I don't know. What do banks do? They make currency, right? Well, as well as, you know, save it for you and dish it out. I don't know, just, that's where my mind went.
Tom:
Well, you're right that the Bank of Mexico is like the Bank of England or the Federal Reserve. It's not just some bank somewhere. It is the national bank.
VT:
So I'm guessing they produce bank notes, national bank notes.
Tom:
Yes.
VT:
And perhaps they use a chemical or... a substance that's released by... Is it 'axo-lotto', did you say? Is that how you pronounce it? 'Axo-lotto'?
Tom:
'Axo-lottle'.
VT:
'Axo-lottle'.
Tom:
Also, thank you Producer David, who has... (cracks up) He said, "Please make sure you say that it's an amphibian, not a fish." Otherwise, he will have to deal with so many emails.
SFX:
(Geoff and VeeVee laugh)
Tom:
That's fair. It's an amphibian.
Geoff:
Hey, Tom, I hear that's a kind of amphibian. Is that—
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
Geoff:
Does that help? See, I still care. I care. (laughs) Wow. Sorry, VT was going with a chemical that the amphibian could produce— use—
VT:
Releases, or it could be, yeah, to produce bank notes. And if they don't have enough of them, they cannot produce more bank notes?
VeeVee:
Or I'm also thinking along the lines of, like... you know, do axolotls change colour? Are they— I don't remember if this is like a... the wrong fact, but are they one of the types of amphibians that change colour?
Tom:
I'll be honest, you all are asking many questions about the biology of amphibians that are not on my notes.
Geoff:
(belly laughs)
Tom:
Yes they do, shifting lighter or darker, but they don't do a full chameleon change apparently.
Geoff:
So when I mentioned security features on a bank note earlier, Tom, I can't remember whether your face reacted in a, "Ooh, correct" or "Ugh" kind of way.
Tom:
Well...
Geoff:
'Cause now I'm thinking when you move a bank note in the light, you see different features of the things that are print— Hang on, is the axolotl a national animal of Mexico or something, and we— and none of us know that? It's not, is it?
Tom:
It's... It's from the area. It's not, like, national animal. There have been a lot of things thrown out, some of them actually quite close. So VT, when you talked about a bank note shortage, yeah, to some extent. And Geoff, when you talked about it being a security feature, that's not right, but it was on the notes.
Geoff:
There's a picture of the 'axo-lotto' on Mexican bank notes?
Tom:
Yes. Axolotl.
Geoff:
Axolotl, sorry, the amphibian.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Geoff:
The amphibian. Not a fish. Wow.
VT:
Is it because the... the country, or Mexico in general, they love this amphibian? And they want to collect these bank notes, and they all rush to the bank and ask for one?
Tom:
Yes! Yes! That's close enough.
The axolotl is incredibly cute as amphibians go. And so, there was a new 50 peso note released in 2021 by the Bank of Mexico. It was so popular that 13 million Mexicans were deliberately avoiding spending it. It's worth about $3. So that is about 150 million US dollars of bank notes that are just stashed away because the creature on them is cute.
VeeVee:
(giggles softly)
VT:
I need to look up what it looks like.
VeeVee:
I know.
Tom:
(laughs)
VeeVee:
I'm so tempted to look it up right now.
Tom:
The axolotl in question is called Gorda. It lives in Axolotitlán, which is a museum in Mexico City dedicated to axolotls.
VT:
They have a whole museum dedicated to it?
Tom:
They have a whole museum of axolotls.
Geoff, whenever you're ready.
Geoff:
Okay.
This question has been sent in by Ryan from Queensland. Thank you.
In Melbourne, Australia, a public awareness campaign featured the slogan 'Beware the rhino' and various imagery of rhinos on skateboards. Skateboards. But what was the campaign about?
Again.
In Melbourne, Australia, a public awareness campaign featured the slogan 'Beware the rhino' with imagery of rhinos on skateboards. What was the campaign about?
Tom:
I am desperately trying to find an acronym for rhino. The Really Horrible Ingenious North Ocelot. I'm not good at acronyms. Carry on.
Geoff:
Tom, you're Really Horrible at...
Tom:
(laughs)
Geoff:
No, no, no, sorry.
VT:
What immediately comes to mind is that this has nothing to do with rhinos, but rather it's representing something.
Geoff:
Correct, VT. It's nothing to do with rhinos.
SFX:
(Geoff and Tom laugh)
VT:
But to do with skateboards?
Tom:
Well, it said imagery of skateboards. So it could be—
Geoff:
Yeah. I'll give you one early clue. The wheels on the skateboards are an allusion to something. But it's not specifically skating.
Tom:
An allusion, not an illusion, right?
Geoff:
Allusion, yes. Checking my notes here. Sorry.
Tom:
(laughs)
VeeVee:
Is the rhino... Was it actually pictures of rhinos, or was it like...
Geoff:
Like, a silhouetted picture of a rhino on a silhouetted picture of a skateboard.
VeeVee:
I'm trying to draw out a rhino on a skateboard to see if the silhouette of the two things act—
Geoff:
It looks cool.
Tom:
It's gone so badly.
Geoff:
It looks cool.
SFX:
(group giggling)
Tom:
It looks like... I'm not gonna show this to the camera because it's embarrassingly bad, but it looks rather like a seal coming out of a hole in the ice and waving at you, is kind of the silhouette that I've got here, instead of rhino on a skateboard.
Geoff:
Wait, have you all drawn pictures of rhinos on skateboards on your notes?
Tom:
We've all drawn pictures of rhinos on skateboards, Geoff.
Geoff:
(laughs uproariously)
VT:
I've pictured it. But I've not gone as far as drawing it.
Tom:
And I recognise that there are video options for this podcast, but this bad drawing of a rhino on a skateboard is never seeing the light of day.
Geoff:
Come on, Tom. Are we—
Tom:
Absolutely not!
Geoff:
Is somebody gonna be kind enough, anyone, to show me their picture of a rhino on a skateboard?
VeeVee:
Oh gosh.
SFX:
(Geoff and VeeVee giggle)
Geoff:
Go on. VeeVee, go on.
VT:
VeeVee? Let's go it.
VeeVee:
Alright.
Geoff:
YouTube wanna see it.
VeeVee:
(shows pen doodle)
Geoff:
There we go.(laughs)
SFX:
(group belly laughs)
Tom:
I would describe that as a cartoon character from the 1950s. He's got two little legs.
Geoff:
That's great.
VeeVee:
I'm thinking like, in... I remember in Melbourne, Australia, they have trams. So I'm thinking if it's like a...
Tom:
Ooh.
Geoff:
(wheezes in shock) Go on. (laughs)
VeeVee:
Could it be like a... like a, yeah, like a allusion to trams? 'Cause they're big and clunky, and they're quite noisy.
Geoff:
Yeah? (wheezes)
VeeVee:
On wheels.
Geoff:
I think you've nailed it. What, how did you— What? No.
Tom:
Well, I was gonna say it was tram tracks. I was gonna say it was something to do with like, 'cause cyclists have that all the time, where they're trying to turn over tram tracks. They get knocked off by the fact they're suddenly gliding along this gap. But is it— It's— I'm wrong? It's just, VeeVee's just saying it's the trams.
VeeVee:
Oh, it's trams.
Geoff:
Though, yeah, you've got it. How did— You've been to Melbourne, obviously. Have you been on the trams in Melbourne? That would help if— have you been there?
VeeVee:
No, I don't actually think I've been on the Melbourne trams, but I've definitely seen them.
Tom:
Okay. Do we need to work out why they described a tram as a rhino?
Geoff:
No, I think you're there. I'm just gonna go with it. It was a campaign, yeah, like a safety campaign. The campaign was reminding pedestrians and drivers to keep safe near Melbourne's tram networks, which has tracks running around the city, and the campaign reminds people that colliding with a tram is the same force as being hit by 30 rhinos on skateboards.
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
Tom:
I thought the rhino was representing like a pedestrian or a skateboarder. It's not, it's literally the tram.
Geoff:
Yeah. But I like the fact that someone's done the maths, and they've worked out that like a four-car tram is the same as 30 rhinos.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Geoff:
"What animal should we choose?" And then... (giggles) and then draw it. Not like VeeVee's drawing, obviously.
SFX:
(Geoff and VeeVee laugh)
Geoff:
And that— it was a safety campaign. Think rhinos on skateboards, think trams, obviously.
Tom:
Thank you to Simon for this question.
Right before launch, a software project manager ticks two items off the checklist: "I18N" and "A11Y". What do they represent?
I'll give you that one more time.
Right before launch, a software project manager ticks two items off the checklist: "I18N" and "A11Y". What do they represent?
Geoff:
VeeVee, VT, I got nothing.
VT:
(sighs)
Geoff:
(wheezes) I got nothing.
VT:
You did say it's a software manager?
Tom:
Yes.
VT:
Before launching something.
Tom:
Yeah.
VT:
But we don't know what he's launching.
Tom:
Mhm.
VT:
It could be a campaign. It could be a software that he's just launching on his laptop?
Tom:
Oh, this is launching the software project, the new thing to the world.
VT:
Oh, project. Okay.
Tom:
Yeah.
VT:
Launching a software project.
VeeVee:
Like a software, like a new software. 'Cause it's a software project manager.
Tom:
Oh, yeah, no, I see how that can be read multiple ways. No, this is the manager of a software project.
VeeVee:
'I18N'. I mean, I'm looking at my keyboard right now and just seeing like... if it's like... anything that you check. I18N and then A11Y. But it doesn't seem like there's any pattern there.
VT:
And it's two items on a checklist, rather than something that he's typing into.
Tom:
Yeah.
Geoff:
if it was all— If it was pure letters, I'd assume that it was an acronym for something, but there's numbers in there, unless it is still part acronym.
Tom:
(cocks head idly)
Geoff:
You've giv— I never— You give me that poker face, Tom.
SFX:
(Tom and VeeVee laugh)
Geoff:
I never know, Is that "Hmm, you're correct" or "Hmm, you're wrong"? Which is it? (laughs)
Tom:
Because this is a terrible show, Geoff, if people just ask me questions and I say, "No, no, yes, no." I'm hoping y'all might talk about that! I'm hoping someone might pick up Geoff's acronym thing and run with it a little bit.
Geoff:
Alright. VeeVee, VT. I think it's an acronym thing with numbers. What do we think? (laughs)
VeeVee:
Yeah, or it like, maybe Tom's throwing us off by saying 18, so maybe it's like I-one-eight-N. Could that be like... Or A-one-one-Y. I'm just thinking if it's...
Geoff:
Wait, is it a phonetic thing? Is that actually spelling out another word? Again, I'm not looking at Tom's poker face. I'm looking at everybody else. It could be phonetics.
VeeVee:
Oh, okay, like... I...
Geoff:
It's like an in-joke within the software house. It— Those four characters spell out an actual proper sentence, but they were bored of writing that sentence, so they abbreviated it down to four characters that just sounded like that thing. Wow.
Tom:
I... mm. You're homing in on this quite nicely. I think you're right, Geoff, that it's not an acronym, but it's certainly something like that.
VT:
So it sounds like something when you read it out loud.
Tom:
No, not in this case. In fact, I don't think you'd want to read these out loud.
Geoff:
Does it look like something? Does it look like another word that those words spell, like backwards or upside down or mirror writing?
I c— I just feel like— I know a lot of software developers. They like to put their little few Easter eggs and a lot of in-jokes, and so it could— I feel like it's an in-joke on the part of the software developers.
Tom:
It's more of an industry term, I'd say.
VeeVee:
Could it be something like... the 18th letter of the alphabet... and then the 11th letter of the alphabet, but actually they needed to get... because of like... software engineering quirks, you had to have four...
Tom:
(blurts chuckle)
VeeVee:
Four characters?
Tom:
Unfortunately I'm pretty sure those would be 'irn' and 'aky', which...
VeeVee:
No, yeah.
Tom:
Not quite.
VT:
I'm just looking at 'A11Y'. It kinda spells out 'alley'. Does... Or does that not have anything to do with... how we're looking at it?
VeeVee:
I was thinking that too, but the 18, the 18, I'm...
VT:
18.
Geoff:
It also sounds like names you'd give droids out of Star Wars.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Geoff:
Sorry. My brain just went there for some reason.
VeeVee:
I guess maybe we can think along the lines of like, it's right before launch, so it's like a final check. What would they do at a final check?
Tom:
Yeah, that's true, particularly for I18N. This isn't something you can do early in the process.
Geoff:
Mm.
Tom:
You should do it like, middle of the process. Far too many projects do this right at the end, but yeah, you can't do that one early on.
Geoff:
Make a backup? (chuckles)
Tom:
Have a think what else those numbers could represent. 'Cause you're right, it's a special kind of abbreviation, but we're not looking for 18th letter of the alphabet. We're not looking for a soundalike or a lookalike.
Geoff:
Are those characters universal, it works in multiple languages?
Tom:
Oh. Oh, Geoff. No, but that's what I18N is all about.
Geoff:
What did I just say?
SFX:
(both laughing)
Geoff:
Something about—
Tom:
You said about things working in multiple languages. That is exactly what I18N is all about.
VT:
So it will not work in multiple languages, do you say? Or it will?
Tom:
it's about making it work in multiple languages.
Geoff:
It has to work in all languages. Not, say, just English, but other— And that's the box you tick to say, yes, it works in all the—
Tom:
Yep, works in multiple languages, I18N.
Geoff:
But what does it stand for?
Tom:
Mhm.
Geoff:
What does it mean?
Tom:
And what's that 18?
VeeVee:
Could it just be like 18 other letters that's in between? And—
Tom:
Yes!
Geoff:
Oh, I... ~[?](gestures letter spaces)
VeeVee:
(laughs) Oh. Like I...
Tom:
Yeah, this is abbreviating a 20-letter word.
Geoff:
What? Oh, good, right. So now we're doing a crossword. Okay, great.
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
Tom:
I mean, you've basically got it. These are called numeronyms, or possibly numeronyms. It's one of those words which has been created by people who wrote it down. So there is no official pronunciation for this.
So I18N is I, 18 letters that have been abbreviated, and an N.
Geoff:
But it's in— Is it international something?
Tom:
International...
VeeVee:
...isation?
Tom:
Internationalisation. Yes, correct.
SFX:
(Geoff and VeeVee laugh)
Tom:
And while it should be done in the middle, far too often it happens just at the end, when they just send it off to be translated.
Geoff:
Wait, so what's the other one?
Tom:
A11Y.
Geoff:
Oh...
Tom:
This is again about making it work for more people.
Geoff:
Accessibility.
Tom:
Accessibility. Spot on, Geoff.
These are the abbreviations that software developers use for 'internationalisation' and 'accessibility', which is ironic because they don't help either of those things.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
VT:
And in the time to decipher these, we could have just Google Translated
Tom:
(laughs) Yeah, you could have!
VT:
the word into a different language.
Tom:
VeeVee, it's over to you.
VeeVee:
Right.
This question has been sent in by Ron Nelson.
Dr. Ian Whishaw is a professor of neuroscience, studying behavior in rodents. What did he notice about their movement near food that was similar to a flaw in Boris Becker's service action?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Sorry, I love it when a question just goes off the rails in the last few words.
Sorry, give it— give us that again, VeeVee.
VeeVee:
Dr. Ian Wishaw is a professor of neuroscience, studying behavior in rodents. What did he notice about their movement near food that was similar to a flaw in Boris Becker's service action?
Tom:
Okay, Boris Becker, tennis player. That much I know.
Geoff:
When you serve in tennis, you throw the ball in the air, and then you strike as it falls down. Okay. With your...
Tom:
So the flaws in that could be the way he throws, the way he swings... the way he stands while he does it.
Geoff:
Or the noise that he makes as he exhales air, like a grunt. (chuckles)
Tom:
(laughs)
VT:
Or is it more like the way he positions himself?
Tom:
Or maybe he puts too much spin on the ball, and the rodents near food tend to spin round the food. I don't know— Help!
VeeVee:
(points and gapes)
VT:
How do they eat? How do rodents eat?
Geoff:
VeeVee's looking very excited. Hang on, hang on.
VT:
Do they—
Tom:
(chuckles softly)
Geoff:
What?
VT:
Do they use their tongue and wrap around the food?
VeeVee:
VT got something around the tongue, actually.
Tom:
Ooh.
VeeVee:
Surpri— yes. You guys actually got there really quickly. Something about the tongue.
VT:
How do they eat their food with their tongue?
Tom:
(blurts chuckle)
VT:
Do they slurp it up? Or do they...
Tom:
Oh, Boris Becker famously just kind of, just, as he throws the ball in the air, goes (slurps loudly) and pulls it off course.
VeeVee:
I mean... Tom... (laughs)
VT:
Oh, is that actually?
Tom:
Don't. Don't.
VeeVee:
Hold that thought.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
Geoff:
So they— Does the mouse flick the food with the tongue in a... in a serving, does he flick the food food in the air to catch it? Just... no, what?
Tom:
I'm thinking of how, like, a cat laps at milk. Like, the tongue comes out and flicks back, I think, to kind of pull it up. So maybe mice do something similar. I assumed they just kind of gnawed their way through things, 'cause you see like mouse bite marks in things, like...
VeeVee:
So maybe back to Boris Becker, tennis player. What kind of judgment would the receiving tennis player have to make? So we talked about Boris Becker's service action. What judgment would the receiving tennis player have to make?
VT:
Whether it goes into court or not?
Tom:
Whether he's trying to smash it as hard as possible, whether it's something they could come back to. Where he's aiming.
Geoff:
To do with the placement of the ball. Is it gonna go to the far corner, or, you know, or the inside, or like the middle of the court? The placement of where the ball's going.
VeeVee:
I think that that's, you're onto something there.
Geoff:
Boris Becker famously only ever served the tennis balls in one particular spot, and over the years, people got to learn that and knew that— where he was gonna place the– his serve, and that worked to his disadvantage. I don't know.
Tom:
Or he would telegraph where he was going to put it somehow. Like, he had a tell. If he's gonna send it to that bit of the court, he's gonna do this thing, and his opponent could figure that out.
Geoff:
Oh.
VT:
So did he make a certain facial expression that kinda gave away where the ball was gonna land?
Tom:
Or some body movement, something like that. Like Boris Becker had a tell for where he was gonna send the ball.
VeeVee:
That is correct. And now think about the mice as well, right? You guys were talking about the mice and the food.
Geoff:
With the tongue? What? No.
VeeVee:
(nods)
Geoff:
With the tiny mouth tongue nibbling at the... whatever. What, is it... Is it to do with like, someone set a mouse trap, and the way the mouse— a mouse will be suspicious of a trap, and the way they eat the food, a particular angle determines whether the trap goes on or off or not?
Tom:
Or just they angle the rest of their body to point their tongue in a certain direction?
VeeVee:
So close. Continue, continue that.
Geoff:
(cackles)
VT:
Oh, do they point their tongue in a certain direction, and it kind of pokes out their cheek, going, mm, like that?
Geoff:
(chuckles)
VT:
And that was the direction that they served in?
Geoff:
Boris Becker used to poke his tongue in his cheek depending on which side he was gonna play the ball.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Geoff:
Bam.
Tom:
Wait, really?
VT:
"I'm gonna serve in that direction. Mnn."
Tom:
It's Boris Becker's tongue?
VeeVee:
Yes. Yes, you guys got it. So...
Boris Becker would point his tongue to the direction that he served it to. So yeah, so Dr. Whishaw of University of Lethbridge, Alberta studies how the brain coordini— coordinates precise movements. While researching behaviour in rodents, Whishaw actually noticed that mice briefly move their tongues in the same direction they were about to reach food as well.
Tennis legend Andre Agassi reportedly used the same cue to read serves from Boris Becker.
When Dr. Whishaw noticed
Geoff:
Fascinating.
VeeVee:
that US football player Patrick Mahomes did the similar— did something similar before passing the ball, he half-jokingly refused to reveal this observation until the Super Bowl had passed.
Tom:
(belly laughs)
VeeVee:
Michael Jordan also famously stuck out his tongue while driving towards the basket.
VT:
And I've been told that people do this when they play thumb war. So the next time you play thumb war with somebody... make notes of whether you stick your tongue out or not.
Tom:
Thank you to Anton for this next question.
In July 1497, craftsman Gerhard van Wou dug a roughly conical hole in the central plaza of Erfurt, Germany. He filled it back up some weeks later so that no trace was left. What was the hole for?
And one more time.
In July 1497, craftsman Gerhard van Wou dug a roughly conical hole in the central plaza of Erfurt, Germany. He filled it back up some weeks later so that no trace was left. What was the hole for?
VT:
Well, if he filled it back up again, I feel like... my mind immediately jumps to... hiding something that's precious to him. So that no one could find it except for him afterwards. But then you emphasise that it's a conical hole.
Tom:
Roughly, yeah.
Geoff:
I want to just give a comedy answer and say was he the first person to ever build a sand castle on a beach and just dug a big hole, you know?
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Geoff:
And then made a sand castle.
Tom:
In this case, no. Also, I— It says roughly conical hole. Most holes that are dug are roughly conical.
Geoff:
Right.
Tom:
I will... In this case it's that way for a reason.
Geoff:
We don't know where he was digging the hole. I've gone with sand, but—
Tom:
In the central plaza of Erfurt, Germany.
Geoff:
So plaza indicates paved street. Thinks concrete. Was it the first ever... Hang on, 1497. They weren't laying gas pipes. I'm trying— Was it the first ever utility pipes? But I don't think they had electricity in 1497.
VT:
And he's a craftsman rather than an engineer.
Tom:
Yes.
Geoff:
Wait, sew—
VT:
I'm guessing he's not—
Geoff:
Was it sewage? Sorry. No, no, no? No.
Tom:
No. Craftsman, not engineer. VT's right there.
VT:
It can be a time capsule or just a piece of arts that... Have you seen those toys where they embed like a dinosaur in a rock or a bunch of concrete, and you get this little hammer, and you hammer that out?
Tom:
(laughs)
VT:
So it's the process that's the art rather than the product.
Tom:
This is more craft than art. I think keying in on craftsman was a good call.
Although, and this is... Look, I'm giving you a diversion here because this is just a fact I know and have never been able to make a video about. There is an artwork in Germany called the Vertical Earth Kilometre in the town of Kassel, where an artist dug a kilometre-long... sorry, a kilometre-deep hole, very thin hole, filled it with a kilometre-long set of metal bars... and that's it, that's the artwork. If you go up, you just see the very top of a kilometre-long rod that goes straight down.
And because that is literally the entire story, that's— I never did a video about it. 'Cause I'm like, "Yes, that's a thing on the floor there. Can't show you the rest of it without digging a kilometre down."
VT:
And do you just not see it?
Tom:
No, you just don't see it. You just gotta take it on faith that there's a kilometre deep rod starting just there.
VeeVee:
I might have to steal that for VeeVee TV, actually.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
VeeVee:
I like it.
Geoff:
You said craft, thinking craftsman, but we don't know, is it like, like is he— does he chisel stone, or is it like woodwork or painting or... we haven't determined what—
Tom:
I wouldn't try and enumerate crafts here. I don't think you'll come up with a craft for us, but materials might be a good way to think.
VeeVee:
Did the time between digging it up and filling it back in... does that— did that matter?
Tom:
Oh, yeah, definitely.
VeeVee:
Okay. And then, okay, also the materials, right.
Tom:
Mhm.
VT:
And did you mention the timeframe? Did you tell us how long...
Tom:
Yeah, some weeks.
VT:
Some weeks to...
Tom:
Some weeks.
VT:
Some weeks passed before he went back to fill it, or did he keep...
Tom:
I mean, some other stuff happened as well in there.
VeeVee:
If he was in central plaza... surely it must've been like concrete or...
Tom:
Little early for concrete, but...
VeeVee:
Oh yeah, it was 1497.
Tom:
(laughs)
Geoff:
So, so...
Tom:
I couldn't tell you whether it was paved or just trampled down, but central plaza is important.
Geoff:
Wood. Was it wood?
Tom:
No, no.
VT:
Central plaza... That's a place where usually there's a landmark or a statue.
Tom:
There is. Yes. Landmark I think would be the one to go for.
VT:
I would wanna say there's a clock, but probably not.
Tom:
Well, yes, attached to something else there.
Geoff:
A statue.
VT:
Like a tower? A bell tower?
Tom:
VT, bell tower is a very important set of words here. You're right. Erfurt Cathedral is important here.
VeeVee:
Mm.
VT:
Well, digging into a ground sounds like somebody's grave, but it's roughly conical.
Geoff:
A grave for something that's not a person, but something that is also conically shaped.
Tom:
I mean... (cracks up) Grave is... accurate in terms of what's going on, but this is more about creation than death.
Geoff:
They're planting something. What? Oh, this is... (chuckles)
Tom:
(laughs)
Geoff:
Aw no.
VeeVee:
Creating... the cathedral?
Tom:
The cathedral's already there. The bell tower's already there.
VeeVee:
Mm. The clock.
Tom:
What else is up that tower?
Geoff:
What's in a bell tower? A bell on a bit of rope, and you ding the bell.
Tom:
Yeah. Yeah.
Geoff:
Rope? Rope?
VeeVee:
Rope?
Tom:
No, Geoff. Literally the other part of the sentence!
VeeVee:
Oh, the bell.
Geoff:
The bell. What... So you need metal. You need metal to make the bell.
Tom:
You do— Well, yes. I will— Gerhard van Wou is a bell founder, a bell maker.
Geoff:
What metal do they make bells out of? I don't know.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Geoff:
Why would I know that?
VT:
Copper and steel maybe?
Tom:
I think it's m— I should know this. Done a video about that. I think it's bell metal, which is mostly tin, I think.
VT:
Oh, so are we not right in thinking that we're collecting material for the bell?
Tom:
Nope, nope. You'd find that somewhere else. This is another part of the process of making a bell.
Geoff:
A mould! A mould for the bell. And you dig a hole in the ground, and then you fill it in, and that makes a bell. Did I do it?
VeeVee:
Ahh.
Tom:
Yeah. I'm gonna give you that, Geoff. There's a little bit more to the process. But yes. This was a casting pit for a very large bell.
Geoff:
Wow.
Tom:
At that time, the massive bells— This was called Gloriosa. It was gonna be the largest of its kind. Bells of that scale were cast directly in the ground next to the cathedral.
Geoff:
Brilliant.
Tom:
So they would dig a big conical pit. They would build the mould for the bell inside that pit, and then construct a temporary furnace nearby to melt the bronze and the tin. They would then release that into the mould, and it has to cool slowly.
So rather than doing this off in some forge or foundry far away and then having to move the very large bell a long way, they simply dig the pit at the cathedral, melt the metal, pour it in, and then they don't have to move the bell as far.
Geoff:
That's great.
VeeVee:
Yeah.
Tom:
VT, whenever you're ready, it's your question, please.
VT:
This question has been sent in by Danny.
In 1960, Jacques and Don set out on a trip with their vehicle carrying 120,000 litres or 32,000 gallons of gasoline. But after returning from a 22 kilometre or 14 mile round trip that took over eight hours, none of the fuel had been burned. Why?
I'll give that to you again.
In 1960, Jacques and Don set out on a trip with their vehicle carrying 120,000 litres or 32,000 gallons of gasoline. After returning from a 22 kilometre or 14 mile round trip that took over eight hours, none of the fuel had been burned. Why?
Tom:
I was so sure this was astronauts. You said 1960. I was like, okay. You said Jacques and Don. Those are very astronaut names. You're like, vehicle, well, that's gonna be a spaceship. 120,000 litres of... gasoline? At that point, my brain went, no, you don't, no— And then you said it was, like, 22 kilometres, and it hadn't been burned. It's not astronauts.
Geoff:
No. Is it sailing? And they ended up using wind power rather than the engine power?
VeeVee:
I was thinking, the— was— 120k... liters... Were they just transporting it, and they weren't actually using it? It was some kind of e-vehicle that didn't require any gasoline?
Tom:
That's so much gasoline.
VT:
(wheezes) It's very useful. So the gasoline is definitely useful here.
Tom:
That's like a tanker of gasoline. I'm like, I'm bad at volume calculations, 'cause there's like a cubed in there. And I can't tell you if that's like road tanker or ocean tanker levels of gasoline.
Geoff:
Wait, Tom, that might be it. They're delivering. They're a delivery tanker, and they didn't deliver their thing. So they just came back with their cargo still unused. Undelivered. No?
VT:
Mm, it wasn't a delivery. The gasoline was useful for the vehicle.
VeeVee:
So the 120k litres of gasoline was helpful, but just not in the 14-mile journey?
Tom:
What other use for gasoline is there?
SFX:
(Tom and VeeVee chuckle)
Tom:
Why do you suddenly need gasoline 11 kilometres away and then not need it anymore?
VeeVee:
Yeah, and 120,000 litres wouldn't be for... a normal journey anyways. So this must have been, like, a...
Geoff:
A large truck, lorry, ship. A— Not a small car. It must be a large vehicle that requires – under normal circumstances – a lot of fuel, and then circumstances transpired that it didn't require it.
VT:
VeeVee, you said it's not a normal journey. You're right.
Geoff:
It was like a rescue mission to... It was a... Was it for something in flight? Was it a plane or helicopter?
VeeVee:
Oh.
Tom:
Oh. 'Cause you have those midair refuelings, don't you?
Geoff:
Ooh, that's good.
Tom:
(giggles) You say that, Geoff, but...
VT:
But if they didn't use up their gasoline, why did they need to refuel?
Tom:
Yeah.
Geoff:
What year again? 1960-something?
VT:
That was 1960.
Geoff:
Why do I feel like it's like going to one of, like, the Arctic or the North Pole or something? It's like an extreme journey.
Tom:
Someone filled a zeppelin with gasoline, and... Or maybe it's... No, you— I was gonna say maybe it's a submarine. Maybe it's gone down to the oceans, but you don't want to have 120,000 litres of gasoline that far underwater. That doesn't feel like a useful thing.
VT:
You're headed in the right direction.
Tom:
What, down?
VT:
Yeah, going— Yeah, downwards.
Tom:
Huh.
Geoff:
So it's... an exploration submarine... on a mission to... (cracks up) Someone help me out.
VT:
You're right. You're right.
Tom:
It is?
VT:
What kind of mission is it?
Geoff:
A res— I'm thinking rescue.
VeeVee:
Yeah, like a shipwreck. A shipwreck rescue or...
VT:
Not quite a rescue.
Tom:
Gasoline is less dense than water, right? It floats on top of water.
Geoff:
(chuckles)
VT:
Yes. That's very important.
Geoff:
(laughs) Ah, physics. There we go.
SFX:
(guessers chuckling)
Tom:
So could it be a buoyancy thing?
VT:
It is!
VeeVee:
Ahhh.
Tom:
I don't know how, and I'm hoping someone else can fill that in.
Geoff:
So they were trying to salvage something, bringing it to the surface by using gasoline instead of— Well, because it's less, yeah, less buoyant than, yeah, 'cause of the density compared to water. But they didn't... The mission— For some reason, the mission didn't come to fruition as expected.
VT:
They succeeded in the mission.
Geoff:
Oh, great.
VT:
Or in the challenge. But they just weren't there to rescue something.
Tom:
Marianas Trench, the deepest point of the ocean?
VT:
Yes, yeah. To go to the deepest point in the ocean, I think you mentioned. Which point was that?
Tom:
Marianas Trench, I think the name is.
VT:
Yes.
Tom:
Yes.
VT:
Yes, that's it.
Tom:
They took 120,000 litres of gasoline to the deepest part of the ocean?!
VT:
Yes, but you knew exactly what it's for. It's for buoyancy, right?
Geoff:
To get themsel—
VT:
But how did they submerge themself in the first place?
Geoff:
And then for some scientific reason, they didn't need it. They came to the surface without having to use the gasoline.
Tom:
No, 'cause it's, they don't have to burn it.
VT:
Yeah.
Tom:
They just have to be heavier than it on the way down. They can leave the weights at the bottom.
VT:
They did, yes. I think they offloaded some weight, and then the gasoline helped them – because of its buoyancy – to float back to the surface.
Tom:
Because you can't use air because it's so much pressure.
VT:
Yes, and with so much pressure... what's gonna happen to air?
Tom:
Might it liquefy at that pressure? Or get close to it? It's not gonna be useful for buoyancy. It's gonna shrink down so much that...
VT:
That's it. I think we got the full story.
Geoff:
Oh, okay.
Tom:
I think we got it. Just for those of us who might still be a little confused here...
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Do you wanna give us that as one coherent sentence, instead of my occasional ramblings there?
VT:
So the Trieste is basically this vessel that can submerge into deep sea. And they were trying to, I think, beat the record of going to the deepest points in the ocean that we know of. So it's basically a deep sea submersible.
And gasoline was used for buoyancy because it is less dense or lighter than water. And so, also, the main thing is that it's incompressible, unlike air, which meant it could withstand extreme pressure. So you could take it down to the bottom of the ocean without the gasoline compressing and losing that buoyancy.
So it was Jacques Piccard and Don Walsh, who used—
Tom:
I said they sound like astronaut names! I was really close! Just the wrong direction.
VT:
I think they were Navy crews.
Tom:
(shrugs silently)
VT:
So yeah, they conducted the first mission, crewed mission, to the base of Challenger Deep, and that's the deepest part of the Mariana Trench. There were electric motors that handled the propulsion of the craft, and iron pellets were released from the vessel, so that they could control their ascent.
Tom:
We arrived. We littered. We left.
VeeVee:
(snickers)
VT:
You were spot on.
Tom:
One last item on the list then, and that is the question from the very start of the show.
Thank you to David Turner for sending this in.
Why is Dick Van Dyke not allowed to play with LEGO?
Anyone want to take a quick punt at that?
VT:
Who is this guy? Are we meant to know who he is?
Tom:
Oh, no! Geoff, do you want to explain Dick Van Dyke?
Geoff:
Well, he's a sort of... Yes? No? He's a...
Tom:
(belly laughs)
Geoff:
I want to say entertainer, singer, but from many years ago, you know?
Tom:
Legendary entertainer.
VT:
What genre?
Geoff:
Yeah. Yeah.
Tom:
He... honestly, kind of an all-rounder. He could sing, he could dance, he could do very bad Cockney accents in Mary Poppins. He had many TV shows of his own, including The Dick Van Dyke Show.
Geoff:
The Dick Van Dyke Show, yeah. (laughs)
Tom:
Diagnosis: Murder. Going back many, many years to the black-and-white days of television.
Geoff:
Because LEGO is in colour. (laughs) And so...
SFX:
(Tom and VeeVee laugh)
Geoff:
And LEGO didn't want their products, people thinking their products were in black-and-white or something stupid. No, I have no idea.
Tom:
This isn't a strict rule. It's more of a guideline.
VT:
When you said he's a dancer, I was just thinking that he would step on them.
Tom:
(laughs)
VeeVee:
(chuckles)
Tom:
If I tell you the ban began on the 13th of December 2025.
VeeVee:
I know recently LEGO's released a few— couple of cool items. Like they had the smart LEGO that came out, and these new LEGO slippers, but I don't think it has anything to do...
Tom:
No, and he's not the only one who wouldn't be allowed to play with this.
VT:
Oh, what kind of traits does he have that prevents him
Tom:
Mm.
VT:
from playing with it?
Tom:
There is a particular trait. You've kind of alluded to it already.
VT:
Dancer or musician?
Tom:
Well, he's been doing this for a long time.
Geoff:
He's old. Is he— I'm assuming he's no longer alive. Is he alive still?
Tom:
He is. Dick Van Dyke—
Geoff:
Oh, is he?
VT:
Oh! 1 to 99.
Tom:
Yes! VT, carry on. By the way, at time of recording, yes, Dick Van Dyke is still alive. VT, do you wanna fill us in? What did you just connect there?
VT:
Yeah, 'cause on LEGO boxes, it says it's...
Geoff:
Oh! (wheezes)
VT:
If you're aged from 1 to 99, you can play with LEGO. But if you turned 100, he's just out of that age band.
VeeVee:
Awh.
Tom:
Dick Van Dyke just turned 100 years old at time of recording.
Geoff:
Brilliant.
Tom:
And is still performing from time to time. He was in a Coldplay music video a couple years ago. He was in Mary Poppins Returns just a few years ago.
Yes, LEGO, as a guideline, says they're for ages 9 to 99, or 4 to 99, and Dick Van Dyke is 100 years old.
Thank you very much to our players. Where can people find you? What are you up to? We will start with VT.
VT:
Hey, it's VT Physics here, and for those of you who've been following me, you'll know that I've started VT Sidequest as well, where I vlog daily. So check that out as well.
Tom:
VeeVee.
VeeVee:
I'm VeeVee TV. You can find me on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok.
Tom:
And Geoff.
Geoff:
Yeah, Geoff Marshall, Geoff with a G on YouTube, making sort of railway and transport films and documentaries.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are full video episodes every week on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Geoff Marshall.
Geoff:
Thank you. Bye.
Tom:
VeeVeeTV.
VeeVee:
Thanks, everyone.
Tom:
VT Physics.
VT:
Thanks, Tom, and everybody.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | David Turner, Danny, Ron Nelson, Ryan, Mira S., Simon, Anton |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |