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Episode 205: The secure ping pong ball
11th September, 2026 • James Smales, Jonny Robins and John Cantrell from 'Here's What You Do' face questions about binary botany, Olympic overachievers and flipped flyers.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Which plant can count to two, and why does it help?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Good evening and welcome to the Lateral studio for today's big match. Let's take a look at today's lineup.
Up front, we've got James Smales, always dangerous in the final third of a question. If there's a last-minute leap of logic to be made, he's ready for the tap-in. James, how are you feeling about the match?
James:
Yeah, you know, it's gonna be a game of two halves. I think there's gonna be a lot of back and forth, but hoping we can pull this one together.
Tom:
All the cliches taken out early. It's gonna be difficult for the other two players.
In midfield, we have Jonny Robins, distributor of bold ideas and occasional whimsy around the pitch. Very comfortable distributing theories across the panel. Jonny, not your first time on Lateral. How are you feeling?
Jonny:
I am confident. I... am gonna bring some banana kicks, some nutmegs, and all that other good stuff to the world of Lateral.
SFX:
(James and John giggle)
Jonny:
Which is all my football knowledge out the window.
Tom:
Holding the defensive line today is John Cantrell, whose main job is preventing wildly incorrect guesses from getting through the back line, although occasionally, he does score one himself. Not entirely sure in which net.
John, looking forward to the match today?
John:
I cannot wait to get out there, Tom. I'm excited. This is the big one. The one we've all been waiting for. Let's get stuck in.
Tom:
Between them, they make the team that is...
I can't keep that voice up. Between the three of you, you make the team that is...
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
Well, tell us about the podcast. Firstly, one of you, name the podcast.
James:
Well, it's called Here's What You Do. it's a quiz podcast out every Wednesday, and each week we set each other a brand new quiz loosely inspired by what we've been doing that week. So it's not just kinda Q&A, it's like three brand new quiz formats.
Tom:
Now, I was gonna ask Jonny and John the rest of what you said there. But unfortunately you took everything.
SFX:
(guests laugh heartily)
Tom:
So Jonny and John, you—
John:
So thorough.
Tom:
(laughs)
James:
Like a mercurial striker, I've been hogging the ball there, Tom, and I firmly apologise.
John:
I just have a hat trick.
Tom:
And I am told that you have written your own questions for Lateral today, Jonny.
Jonny:
We have written our own questions for Lateral. It's the burden we all like to bear. But I think it's fun. It's a new way of coming up— writing quiz questions. It's something we all love doing. So yeah, why not? Let's turn our hand to this, and the main point is, "can we get one over on each other?"
I think is...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jonny:
is what we try and do.
John:
That's the dream.
Tom:
And John, there is a background in quizzing and TV between, well, at least two of the three of you.
John:
Well, my background is a closely guarded secret, Tom, and we will not be talking about that.
SFX:
(others laughing)
John:
But both Jim and Jonny have both worked on various bits of TV. Jim came up with or helped develop Lingo. Jonny's worked on 007: Road to a Million. There's a heritage in TV and gaming and quizzing there. And then I'm also here.
Tom:
Well, the team is in position. The whistle has blown. Let's kick off question one.
Thank you to Harry Sans for this question.
In 1851, Thomas E. Warren demonstrated his 'Centripedal Spring' model, which could tilt, swivel, and roll. Many people considered it immoral at the time, but today $17 billion worth of them are sold annually. What are they?
I'll say that one more time.
In 1851, Thomas E. Warren demonstrated his 'Centripedal Spring' model, which could tilt, swivel, and roll. Many people considered it immoral at the time, but today $17 billion worth of them are sold annually. What are they?
James:
Oh my goodness, immoral?
Tom:
Immoral.
James:
For a spring?
Jonny:
Yeah. What was the spring attached to, that in 1851, would've been classed as immoral? And what was he inventing it for?
James:
Yeah. Well, I guess the name really interested me. Centi— Centi—
John:
Centripetal.
James:
Centripetal. Which I— Does it mean spring of 100 movements, like a century, like it can move in all kind of directions?
John:
My brain immediately went to Slinkys, and I know Slinkys came a lot later.
SFX:
(James and Jonny guffaw)
John:
But I was just— The first thing, as soon as I heard spring, I was like, "Oh, Slinky. Bosh. I've done it. Easy."
SFX:
(John and Jonny laugh)
James:
They're more, move in one direction.
John:
Yeah, they are.
SFX:
(Tom and James laugh)
James:
Rather than 100.
John:
They're the opposite of what we're talking about here.
Jonny:
Yeah, my initial thought was those things that our kids go on in the park. You know, they sit on it, and it's like a duck or a horse.
John:
Oh, and you go back and forth.
Jonny:
And it springs back and forth, and side to side, and round and round, and all that. But I don't think they're gonna be selling $17 billion worth of those every year, so I think we can rule those out.
James:
Yeah. I guess, is it something that was invented for one purpose, and then has been repurposed for something else? So... I can't think of... Do you find it in mobile phones or something that new technology has now repurposed a spring that someone used it for... some nefarious purposes back in the 1850s?
Jonny:
Yeah.
John:
My brain has gone to more suspension, that kind of thing, and perhaps it's roller skates, something like that, or like a skateboard, where you've got a little bit of suspension on there. Again, not sure how that's immoral.
Tom:
I'd keep thinking vaguely in that direction.
John:
Okay.
Tom:
It's not for that sort of locomotion. We're not talking velocipedes or anything like that. But certainly more an evolution of a design.
John:
Oh, okay.
James:
Ooh, okay.
Jonny:
I was gonna go down a velocipede route. So I'm glad you've ruled that out.
SFX:
(others laugh heartily)
John:
You've ruled that one out.
James:
Aren't they like tiny dinosaurs?
SFX:
(Tom and John laugh)
Jonny:
Yeah. Yeah.
James:
Yeah. (snickers)
I wonder if it— Is this something to do with shoes? Ah no, they get springs in shoes, but I guess—
John:
You've got cushions in shoes, haven't you? That kind of thing.
James:
Cushions... and like air bubbles and standing on it and... Or kind of like a device back in those days where it'd have been—
Tom:
Cushions and standing I think would be good words to go for there.
John:
Is it an original version of the Nike... little air bubble that you have in there?
Tom:
Well, may— Actually, no. Standing's kind of a red herring there. Like, it's a good word.
SFX:
(James and John laugh)
Tom:
It's not quite the right— You'll see why I went for that later.
John:
Okay.
Jonny:
Okay.
Tom:
But yeah, this is a design evolution.
Jonny:
Does it still have the same purpose today...
Tom:
Yes.
Jonny:
that it had in 1851?
Tom:
Absolutely, yes.
James:
Wow.
Tom:
This was arguably the first modern version of this.
James:
When you said cushion, I was thinking a pincushion. But that wouldn't be a... You don't really update a pincushion. It's been a... Yeah.
Jonny:
Yeah, what—
James:
They've been the same—
Jonny:
Can we think what—
John:
Tilt, swivel, and roll.
Jonny:
What has those actions? A tilt?
John:
I'm trying to do it myself. I guess like on a gaming controller, you can tilt, swivel, and roll. You've got the little D-pad thing there.
Jonny:
Like a joystick.
James:
Yes...?
Tom:
A little early, I think, for joysticks there.
Jonny:
Tilt, swivel, and roll.
Tom:
Mm, yes. And these things still tilt, swivel, and roll today.
John:
I like the idea that Tilt, Swivel, and Roll could just be the nicknames for the three of us.
SFX:
(group laughing)
James:
Is it— I've got in my head those little wheels that you get on the bottom of trolleys that can kind of move in lots of different directions.
Tom:
Now we're getting closer. Yes, absolutely.
John:
Ooh.
James:
'Cause they— It doesn't matter which way you're pushing it. It kind of goes in lots of directions.
Jonny:
Yeah.
Tom:
Mhm.
James:
But they've had shopping trolleys back in the 1850s? It's immoral to put stuff in a shopping trolley. You should carry it.
Tom:
What might the Victorians have thought about morality and thought about... things it would be improper to be comfortable while doing?
John:
Oh?
Jonny:
Oh, so going to the toilet.
Tom:
(laughs)
James:
(laughs)
John:
(snickers)
Jonny:
If in doubt.
James:
I need it to be rough at all times.
Jonny:
It's always going to the toilet.
Tom:
Oh, no!
SFX:
(James and John laugh)
Tom:
Out of context as well, absolutely not.
SFX:
(laughter continues)
Jonny:
I mean, I don't think we're going down, like, bedroom activities.
Tom:
(blurts laugh)
Jonny:
That feels a little too scandalous as well.
James:
That's not lateral.
Tom:
That's not lateral.
John:
Yeah, not doing that.
James:
So, you shouldn't be comfortable during... Is it— Oh! Is it like on a coach? Like you might put on a coach journey, You know, they used to go in like a horse-drawn carriage or something, that they would've... it— the more rickety it was, the better? Or— Something in the back of my mind is saying—
Tom:
Now, not a coach, but you're right that this was the morality of it, that this is an attitude towards... work, I think. That perhaps you shouldn't be too comfortable and indulgent while doing something serious.
James:
Oh?
Jonny:
Is it to do with... the seats that lorry drivers have?
Tom:
It's to do with seats.
James:
Is it the office chairs?
Tom:
It's the office chair!
John:
Oh, wow.
James:
Yes!
John:
Nice.
Tom:
Yes.
James:
Yes, of course. They've got the exact little wheels I was thinking about on the bottom of those trollies, haven't they? Yeah.
Tom:
Thomas E. Warren's 'Centripetal Spring' model was the— was an armchair. It was actually sold as an armchair, as opposed to a modern office chair. But it could swivel, it could tilt, it could roll about on wheels. There were earlier chairs with wheels, but this is like the first time there was a chair with all these features.
And Victorian attitudes meant it was sometimes criticised as morally suspect because it was too comfortable and indulgent, and managers and clerks should maintain an upright and serious posture.
John:
What would they think of us now?
SFX:
(group laughing)
James:
I would buy a La-Z-Boy with the wheels of an office chair on. I don't know why such a thing doesn't exist.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jonny:
Just never get out.
James:
Yeah!
John:
Yeah. You don't need to. There's no need to.
James:
(laughs)
Tom:
For those of you listening to audio rather than watching the video episode, I was subtly moving and tilting and swiveling my chair all through that question.
SFX:
(James and John laugh)
Jonny:
Unbelievable.
John:
We did not spot that.
Tom:
Which means we go to a question from one of our guests, and we will start with James.
James:
Chad and his neighbours bought lots of orange lip balm, fresh frozen meals, and clear soda. Despite their lavish spending, the marketing teams behind these products would prefer they bought less. Why?
Now I'll read that again.
Chad and his neighbours bought lots of orange lip balm, fresh frozen meals, and clear soda. Despite their lavish spending, the marketing teams behind these products would prefer they bought less. Why?
John:
Well, fair play to Chad and his neighbours.
SFX:
(Tom and James laugh)
John:
What a shopping list. Load of orange lip balm, some frozen meals, and some clear sodas? We talking like a Tab Clear from back in the day?
Tom:
What specific items! Like clear sodas.
John:
The second you said orange lip balm, I was like, what on earth is Chad up to? Why'd you need so much of that, fella?
Tom:
Okay, I'm gonna take the QI klaxon here. Is Chad the country of Chad?
Jonny:
Yeah.
SFX:
(James and John cackle)
James:
No.
Tom:
Okay. Okay. Right.
Jonny:
I was gonna do— I was going the same way. I was like, "We've got to get it out the way."
SFX:
(others laughing)
John:
Take one for the team.
Jonny:
Now, this, it reminds me of, you know, there was that story, I think Netflix did a documentary about it, of Pepsi Where's My Jet? where there was...
Tom:
Oh yeah.
Jonny:
a thing where if you bought X amount of Pepsi, you could win a prize, and their top prize was a fighter jet, 'cause they just assumed no one would ever win it.
Tom:
It was just mentioned in a commercial. It wasn't in the actual catalogue. They just put it as a joke at the end of the commercial.
Jonny:
And then, yeah. And then, I mean, I've not seen the documentary all the way to the end, so I don't know if he actually ever got his jet, or how Pepsi cleared it up. But is it, you know...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jonny:
Is it something similar to that, was if you bought X number of lip balm, are they gonna, you know, give you a new car?
Tom:
'Cause the— Well, there was also the air miles guy. And I can't remember the product it was. That got, I think, turned into an Adam Sandler movie, among its other things.
Jonny:
Yeah, Punch-Drunk Love.
Tom:
Yeah. He's just collecting barcodes on labels.
Jonny:
Yeah, it was chocolate mousse, I think.
Tom:
Was it— Chocolate pudding. That was it, chocolate—
Jonny:
Chocolate pudding, yeah.
Tom:
And he— You got air miles, and he realised that... the air miles were significantly cheaper, and then he could also donate the chocolate pudding, and got, like, lifetime American Airlines status I think, something like that. And it was worth it for him.
But I don't see why you would be clipping coupons from very specific things.
James:
So it's not coupon-based, but one of the companies that you've mentioned does feature.
Jonny:
So I'm guessing Pepsi. Do they make a clear soda? Do they make, like, a Sprite or their equivalent of Sprite? 7-Up?
John:
I'm— Are they part— I think they do Sprite, don't they?
Jonny:
Was it— Is there— Was there something called Pepsi Tab or something?
Tom:
It was Crystal Pepsi. That was the name of the brand, Crystal Pepsi. I don't know where that came up from in my head. That was a 1980s thing.
James:
Yeah. That is the clear soda in question, Tom, yes.
Tom:
Crystal Pepsi.
Jonny:
Crystal Pepsi.
John:
Crystal Pepsi sounds like a pop star that we've not yet heard of.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jonny:
Okay, so Crystal Pepsi, the fresh frozen meals.
Tom:
If this is American, the only brands I know from there I think are gonna be like Hungry-Man or Stouffer's. I think those are both US ready-meal brands, but I don't know...
James:
So you're focusing quite a lot on the brands here. They're just examples. They aren't— They could be replaced with lots of things for the answer.
Tom:
Oh, okay, okay.
James:
It's more about the marketing teams. And the lavish spending.
Jonny:
Chad and his neighbours. Why is it Chad and his neighbours? Where do Chad and his neighbours live? Is that something we should be investigating?
James:
Where they live is pertinent to the answer, but it's not necessarily a specific place.
Tom:
This feels like a stupid internet prank. This feels like an influencer buying up huge amounts of things to show off what they've got or even corner the market and then sell them on, but...
James:
It's— The problem isn't the spending power of Chad and his neighbours. It's not the amount that they're buying, but it's who is buying the products.
Jonny:
I mean, you can't be underage to buy this sort of thing.
James:
So why would a marketing team not want to sell lots of their products to a particular person? And their neighbours?
Tom:
Is it they're scared of Chad suddenly bringing reputation damage?
James:
It... kind of. It's not reputation as such. What can you tell me about Crystal Pepsi? What do you know about it? Can you buy it now?
Tom:
Wait a minute. Orange lip balm isn't a common thing. Can that be bought anymore? 'Cause Crystal Pepsi can't.
James:
No, it cannot be bought anymore, Tom.
John:
Did they— Did— Were they all over eBay, just suck— getting all of the ones that left— that were left out of it, anything that they found left?
Jonny:
But then why would people be that desperate for orange lip balm? It seems like a bizarre thing to sort of focus on, to buy a lot of.
James:
So what data does the marketing team use to show them whether something is successful or not?
Tom:
Sales data, I guess. Yeah. Which stores, how much has been sold.
James:
So the sales data. So why would they not want Chad to buy the product?
Tom:
Oh, my—! Because, because there are certain consumers that you can track... who have really bad taste!
James:
(wheezes) Yes!
SFX:
(John and Jonny laugh)
Tom:
Because you can identify on the... whatever the... If this is the US, whatever the US equivalent of a club card statement is, you can track what certain people buy. Are there certain people who consistently buy products that the rest of the public hate?
James:
Yes, there are, Tom.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
John:
Oh wow. Oh wow.
James:
They're called harbinger customers, and these customers are really good predictors of failing products. So researchers studying consumer behaviour have identified these so-called harbinger customers, and these are shoppers whose purchasing patterns tend to correlate with products that later fail in the wider market.
Jonny:
Ohh.
Tom:
Wow.
John:
Incredible.
James:
Companies sometimes find that certain zip codes or communities contain unusually high numbers of these customers. So when people in those locations, like Chad and his friends, enthusiastically buy a new product, it statistically signals that the product will perform poorly elsewhere.
Tom:
Because they test market. And this isn't just supermarkets. A fast food place will have a thing available in just, like, 10 locations around the US, and they'll test whether it w... (groans)
James:
Exactly that.
So because of this pattern, marketers sometimes jokingly call such places harbinger zip codes. And strong sales there can be interpreted as a warning sign that a product may not succeed nationally, even though these customers are enthusiastic buyers.
So to go back to the question, the orange lip balm was Cheetos lip balm.
Tom:
Oh my god.
James:
It was cheese flavoured.
John:
Oh, my word. That's a lot, innit?
James:
The fresh frozen meals were Colgate Kitchen Entrees, which was frozen food
Tom:
Oh, oh no.
James:
by Colgate the toothpaste brand.
John:
Wow.
James:
(giggles) And clear soda was Crystal Pepsi, all of which failed.
Tom:
Thank you to Richard Atkinson for this question.
Since 1969, there has been a ping pong ball on permanent public display in one of the most secure vaults in the world. Why?
And one more time.
Since 1969, there has been a ping pong ball on permanent public display in one of the most secure vaults in the world. Why?
James:
Oh gosh, well '69 was the moon landing is the only thing I can think of for that date.
John:
I'm fascinated by public display in a secure vault. That— Those two things seem like they're the opposite ends of a spectrum to me.
Jonny:
Yeah. Can you see the ping pong? You know, a vault suggests that it's locked and it's shut. But if on public display, how are we seeing the ping pong ball?
John:
I was thinking of the vaults that you get in Las Vegas. And they are... There's a lot of activity, earthquakes and stuff around there. Is the ten— 'Cause it's such a small and light little thing. Is a ping pong ball particularly subject to the movement that may happen when these vault— these plates rub off one another, something like that?
James:
Well, the Crown Jewels are on display, but in a vault, aren't they?
Tom:
Yes.
John:
Yeah, okay.
James:
So, it could be a Tower of London. I guess if someone used the Crown Jewels for something, replaced it with a ping pong ball, 'cause it looks a little bit like a diamond or something, and then that would be on public display. You think it's the ping pong ball, but... And then the jewel can be used. Something like that?
Tom:
James, you have identified the vault, and it is the Tower of London.
James:
Oh?!
Tom:
That was the public display...
John:
Oh, straight in there.
Tom:
and the vaults. Absolutely right. It is on display there. You have not quite identified why there might be a ping pong ball on display in the Tower of London in the Crown Jewels vault.
Jonny:
I mean, did the Queen enjoy a little bit of table tennis? Is it as simple as that?
SFX:
(Tom and James laugh)
John:
She loves her table tennis.
Jonny:
Yeah.
John:
This is the royal ping pong ball.
Jonny:
(chuckles)
Tom:
It kind of is. Yeah, I'd call it the royal ping pong ball. Yeah.
John:
Does it form part of a coronation process in some way?
Tom:
Uh-mm.
John:
They have the... coronation spoon is a famous thing I remember.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
Investiture, not coronation. But yes, this was the 1969 investiture of Charles as Prince of Wales.
James:
Okay.
John:
Did something break, and they had to replace it quickly
James:
with something spherical that they could then paint in a gold paint colour?
Tom:
And you are right that it has been painted gold. Well, it has been painted I believe with gold leaf, actual gold.
John:
Okay.
Tom:
But you're right.
John:
Wow.
Tom:
It's a ping pong ball coated in gold.
James:
(wheezes)
John:
Incredible.
Jonny:
Wow.
Tom:
So why?
John:
It must be to substitute something else out, mustn't it, surely?
James:
Yeah, what would it be? On like on a sceptre?
John:
Pretend sceptre?
Tom:
Not a sceptre. Wouldn't really need to be... Wouldn't really have a problem with a ball on a sceptre.
John:
Well, some other part of that ceremony then, or... They don't have a hole— balls—
James:
Like an incense ball, that kind of thing?
Tom:
Some other big sparkly thing.
James:
He wouldn't have a crown for being the Prince of Wales.
Tom:
He wouldn't, but it's close enough. It's a coronet.
James:
Right.
John:
Ahhh.
James:
I've said right like I know what a coronet is. Oh yeah, it's a coronet.
SFX:
(Tom and John laugh)
Jonny:
A coronet, yeah.
Tom:
It's basically a crown. It's the fancy term for a crown that is not for the monarch.
So for the 1969 investiture of Charles as Prince of Wales, designer Louis Osman created a modern coronet. And yes, there is a ping pong ball coated in gold there.
You have not quite identified why.
John:
Oh, is it too heavy?
Tom:
It's too heavy!
It's too heavy at the top, and in the middle. And if he tilted his head even slightly, the centre of gravity would go, and the coronet would fall off his head.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
John:
I love that. I love that they've— I reckon they've gone through that several times. "What should we pop on? Tennis ball? No, too big. That's too much. Let's go ping pong ball."
Tom:
So if you go to the Jewel House at the Tower of London, and if you look at the coronet of Charles when he was Prince of Wales, that little ball at the top is actually a ping pong ball coated in gold leaf.
Jonny:
Wow.
John:
Amazing.
Jonny:
Do they tell you that there, or do they— Are they trying to— Is this the big conspiracy? They won't tell us?
John:
Hush it up.
Jonny:
Yeah.
Tom:
(laughs) So our question writer says that this is a personal anecdote. he knows someone who was told the story by the chief curator of the Tower. And if that isn't a reliable source, I don't know what is.
John:
What is?
Jonny:
Wow.
James:
Wow.
Tom:
There's also a reference here mentioning it in The Guardian, so... take your pick.
SFX:
(Jonny and James laugh)
John:
We'll go with that.
Tom:
Jonny, we will head to you for your question.
Jonny:
Alex Diggelmann was the first to lift the UEFA Cup trophy in 1955. Previously, he won Olympic medals due to his displays in cycling and ice hockey. How did he do this without breaking a sweat?
Alex Diggelmann was the first to lift the UEFA Cup trophy in 1955. Previously, he won Olympic medals due to his displays in cycling and ice hockey. How did he do this without breaking a sweat?
James:
Oh, I think I've got something that I might just sit out for.
Tom:
Oh, that's bold if you only think you've got something, 'cause I think I've got something.
James:
Oh, well.
Tom:
But...
James:
Let's see if what... Let's see if John can do it on his own then. Go on, John.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
John:
Good luck, me.
Tom:
Oh, no, no, I'm not gonna sit out. I just think we all go in with a theory and see if any one of them are right. We'll start with John.
John:
Oh, well, I'm the one without any theories, Tom.
Tom:
That's why we're starting with you.
John:
(chuckles)
James:
(cackles)
John:
So, Alex Diggelmann has managed
James:
to lift the UEFA Cup tro—
John:
Is he the guy who creates these medals? Is he a medal maker? He's made the Olympic medals. He's created the first UEFA Cup trophy. He's the first person to lift it as he hands it over.
Tom:
I was going with the designer of the trophy, that like, without even breaking a sweat, this is just what he does. And James?
James:
Oh, it's almost exactly the same thing. Yeah, I presumed '-Mann', Diggelmann, might've been German, and I wondered if... yeah, the first to lift it because he's created it. So he's made it, and he's won Olympic medals for his displays in these, as in he designed the medals for it.
And I guess it might have been in '36 when Germany hosted the Olympics. Is that right?
Tom:
The trouble with writing your own questions, Jonny, is that there is now a big moment for you. Either this question has fallen immediately...
SFX:
(James and Jonny laugh)
Tom:
or you have just got to tell all the three of us no. Which one is it?
Jonny:
You are halfway there, I would say.
Tom:
Ooh.
James:
Ooh.
John:
Ooh.
James:
Okay.
Tom:
Okay. Okay.
James:
Okay.
John:
Interesting.
James:
Maybe he desi— Was he a designer and a sportsman? Maybe he did win it.
John:
I was thinking florist. 'Cause he won his displays in wrestling and ice hockey.
SFX:
(others laughing)
John:
Did a lovely floral bouquet, and then he happened to design the first UEFA trophy.
Tom:
Oh, no, he worked on scoreboards, on the displays for the scoreboards.
John:
Oh, that's— Yes. That makes much more sense than being a florist.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jonny:
So, he did design the UEFA Cup trophy. So that's how he got his hands on that. However, I want to know... how he'd previously won Olympic medals.
Tom:
Also, if you had been the person designing, I'm assuming, like, crafting that trophy, making the thing, you had that beautiful trophy in front of you, and you were presumably a football fan, you would, having finished the thing, go, "Hueeeh!" and lift it yourself. You would absolutely do that.
James:
(cackles) Yes!
John:
Absolutely. Repeatedly. I'm not sure I'd be able to keep that— keep myself away. So he won Olympic medals, Jonny?
Jonny:
He did. He won Olympic medals.
Tom:
Okay, cycling and ice hockey are two very different sports. Like, one is summer, one is winter.
James:
Oh, yes, Tom! Hadn't even thought of that.
John:
They're wildly different disciplines, aren't they? Totally different.
James:
You use different skills, your kind of legs... Oh, I guess it's all legs.
SFX:
(Tom and Jonny laugh)
Tom:
It's all legs. The Summer Olympics.
Jonny:
It's always legs.
Tom:
It's all legs!
John:
This whole sport has been summed up by you there, Jim. It's just all legs, innit? Easy. What's the fuss about?
SFX:
(James and John laugh)
John:
Was he in a situation where he was the only competitor standing? He won them without having to break a sweat because opponents just didn't show up?
Tom:
Didn't the Olympics used to have other non-sporting stuff? Way back when, the first Olympics, the first modern Olympics had some things that were more about like art. And I'm wondering if he painted the Olympics or did something like that.
Jonny:
You're very much on the right lines there, Tom. That is pretty much spot on.
Tom:
(sighs stiffly)
John:
Oh, well done.
Jonny:
So, Alex Diggelmann was a Swiss graphic artist, and this is back in the time when Olympic medals were given out not just to athletics, but also in the Olympic art competitions between 1912 and 1948. Interestingly, he got a silver medal in 1948 for a cycling world championship poster, and a bronze medal that same year in the same event for an ice hockey world championship poster. And he also won in 1936 for a tourism poster.
And as you all landed on pretty quickly, he was the guy that designed the original UEFA Cup trophy, meaning he was the first person to handle it and lift it.
Tom:
Thank you to Mike Salter for this next question.
What is the US Air Force's "Upside-Down Air Force", and what is it used for?
One more time.
What is the US Air Force's "Upside-Down Air Force", and what is it used for?
James:
Going to Australia!
Tom:
Eyyy.
John:
(chuckles) Eyy.
James:
(laughs)
John:
Invade— Invading Stranger Things.
Tom:
Yeah, yeah.
Jonny:
Eyyy.
SFX:
(James and Tom laugh)
Jonny:
We're getting all the QI klaxons going off.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jonny:
Yeah.
Tom:
Get them all sorted.
John:
Yeah. An upside-down air force.
James:
Yeah, you see planes flying... well, in Top Gun. It's the only place I've seen them. But where they fly kind of on top of each other, and one is the right way around, and the other one is upside-down to have— and they have a little chat with each other. I wonder if it's something to do with... going upside-down to have a chat.
Jonny:
I don't know if you need a whole air force for that, would you?
John:
Well, like the— I was thinking more like the Red Arrows and doing that, exactly that same thing, but as a display rather than just have a chinwag.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Jonny:
I was going to space. My first thoughts were space.
James:
Yeah, you're kind of always upside-down in space.
Jonny:
Always. I mean, are you— You could be upside down. You could be the right way up. Who knows?
John:
I was thinking more it being the words and whether the words are read so they're written so they're upside-down, and therefore— but you somehow view them the right way up.
James:
Oh, yeah!
Jonny:
Like when you see an ambulance in your rear view mirror.
John:
Yeah, yeah, exactly like that, but upside down.
James:
Why would— I mean, and also are we assuming it's US Air Force as in the Army, but are the Air Force used for other things? I know kind of like air mail.
Jonny:
Yeah, 'cause technically the Red Arrows are part of our Air Force, aren't they? They're still a military—
Tom:
Yes, definitely.
James:
Yeah.
John:
Hm.
Tom:
Mhm.
Jonny:
So d— Is it like that, like you were mentioning, John? Do the US have their sort of version of the Red Arrows that are for display purposes or, you know, flying over football stadiums and inaugurations?
Tom:
They do. It's... I think the Thunderbirds for the US Air Force.
John:
Awh, that's dreamy.
Tom:
I think the Army have the Blue Angels. I might have those two – or the Navy. There's— They have two of them in the US for two branches.
James:
Okay.
Jonny:
And this is nothing to do with those, I'm guessing.
Tom:
It's nothing to do with that, but it is not an actual combat unit. You're right there.
Jonny:
Okay.
John:
I was wondering if it's more GI Joe, that kind of thing. So they've got their own special army of upside down chaps.
James:
(giggles)
John:
And they, I don't know, take on whatever the fella's name is. I can't remember the bad guy in GI Joe. Snake Eyes.
Tom:
Cobra Commander, I believe.
John:
Cobra Commander, that's the fella.
James:
Why would you need an upside-down air force?
Tom:
Good question, James. Good question. Yeah.
James:
And it doesn't necessarily have to be the planes. Could it be more to do with... kind of hanging from something? And so when planes are in, like, a hangar, they hang upside-down from the top of it to fix... the top of the planes or something. You can't see it from the ground, so you're, like, rappelling down.
Tom:
Now, that's very close. I wouldn't include the rappelling in there, James, but the picture you've got in your head is pretty close.
Jonny:
It's nothing to do with where they store planes in the desert to stop them rusting? Do you store them upside down?
Tom:
No, you would store them right way up here. I think I'm gonna give you the first half of this question, that you have identified that these planes are static and upside-down.
That much you've got. That is the Upside-Down Air Force.
Question, of course, is why.
James:
And are they full-sized planes? We haven't dug into whether—
Tom:
Yes. Yes.
James:
Oh, they are?
Tom:
These are full-size planes.
John:
Is it, they're not in active use? I wonder if whether these are— Are they collectors?
Tom:
No. They never leave the ground. In fact, they are bolted to a tower upside down.
John:
Is it so that people can get, or pilots can get used to either being upside down but in the formation perhaps that they're supposed to be in, so they're used to that?
Tom:
No, no, you can do that in the air. This is something you cannot do in the air.
Jonny:
You can't repair a plane in the air. So are they teaching people to repair planes? Is it, like, a school for aviation mechanics?
Tom:
We're very close now. I wouldn't go with school, but you're right. There are technicians crawling about. I think there's probably a technical term for that. But there's technicians on the underside of these planes, as in facing the sky.
John:
Right, okay.
Jonny:
And are they US planes? Are they planes from other countries that—
Tom:
They are US planes that would be in service, but they're probably not the Top Gun ones you're thinking of. They can be, but not always.
Jonny:
So they're walking around on the bottom of the plane essentially, or inspecting the bottom of the plane.
Tom:
Yep. Perhaps testing things on the bottom of the plane.
James:
Is it when planes used to come back from war, and they had all those maps with the red dots on, of where they got hit, and they thought, "They're the bits we need to improve", but then they went, "Actually, they're the bits that are fine because you've been hit and returned. It's the other—"
Tom:
When you said hit and return, that's... (snickers) actually kind of the right words to use here.
John:
Is it the best way of testing ejector seats? 'Cause you use gravity to have them fly.
Tom:
No, absolutely not! Out— 100% not!
James:
What, to fire yourself towards the ground? (laughs)
Jonny:
Yeah.
John:
Oh yeah, but no. You wouldn't have someone in there. You would just let— see if it worked.
James:
(cackles)
Tom:
Can guarantee this seat will eject!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Jonny:
Yeah.
Tom:
And that's something on the top of the plane. We're looking for something on the underside, and you can't test it properly when that's pointing at the ground.
James:
So, the wheels are underneath the plane.
John:
The— Yeah.
James:
There's the wheels... and that's all I know about under a plane.
John:
Missiles, those sorts of things.
Jonny:
Yeah, guns, wheels.
James:
Cargo space? Cargo hold?
Tom:
Take me through a fight scene in Top Gun. What are they always yelling? What's the panic moment when they're...
John:
Oh, someone on your six.
Tom:
Yeah.
John:
Careful, they've got missile lock.
Tom:
They've— Right. They've got what?
John:
Missile lock. They have flares underneath.
Tom:
What is missile lock?
Jonny:
Isn't it when a missile's— Are they attracted to heat? Is that how they work? Is this a way of cooling a plane so the missiles don't...
Tom:
I think you all have, like, a very 1960s, '70s view of fighter jets here.
SFX:
(guests guffawing)
Jonny:
Yeah. Yeah.
Tom:
What might a more recent plane have?
Jonny:
We go Top Gun, that's as— that's where it begins and ends with us for our— with our aircraft. 'Cause I guess, yeah, like you said, like, nowadays they look like sort of supersonic...
John:
Let's think about what other things could be there. You could have cameras. You could have GPS tracking stuff.
Tom:
Yes, you could. You could have cameras. You could have GPS tracking. You could have all sorts of electronic warfare...
James:
Radar?
Tom:
and radar! Yes!
John:
There we go.
James:
Woof, okay.
Tom:
Why can't you test that when the plane's the right way up?
James:
'Cause it'd just look at the ground.
Tom:
'Cause it just looks at the ground!
SFX:
(guests laugh heartily)
John:
G'oh dear.
James:
Oh, goodness me.
Tom:
It's as simple as that. If you need to test all the stuff on the bottom of the plane that takes long distance photos, that pings off distant objects, everything like that, and you want a technician to be standing next to it at the same time, the only way to do that is to turn the plane upside-down and have it point at the sky.
John:
(giggles) Brilliant.
James:
Of course it is! It's basically how can we make this plane look like it's flying but still be on the ground?
Tom:
Yes.
James:
Just turn it upside down.
Tom:
Yeah.
John:
Perfect.
Tom:
And you can't perform those measurements in flight. There's too many variables. You can't also have a technician next to it to test the thing. This is the 'Upside-Down Air Force' that tests electronic warfare equipment.
John:
Brilliant.
Tom:
John, we will go to you, please.
John:
One morning, Betty writes down "Life preserver and battery acid". Chuck takes the paper and shouts out the same thing. A few hours later, "Foreign entanglements and hockey puck" is announced. What does this all mean?
I'll read that one more time.
One morning, Betty writes down "Life preserver and battery acid". Chuck takes the paper and shouts out the same thing. A few hours later, "Foreign entanglements and hockey puck" is announced. What does this all mean?
James:
Wow.
Tom:
(laughs)
James:
Hockey puck. Was Alex Diggelmann there painting a picture of...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jonny:
He was painting the pucks.
James:
Playing hockey?
Jonny:
Yeah.
James:
Yeah.
Jonny:
So, foreign entanglement and hockey puck.
Tom:
They're all two-word phrases.
John:
Spot on. (chuckles)
James:
Announced? They've announced a hockey puck? What is that? What does that even mean? I can't make sense of it in my head to even talk about it. Do you know what I mean?
Tom:
Okay, okay. I'm doing the mind palace thing here.
John:
Ooh?
Tom:
Some neurons have pinged in my head. And the phrase that has lit up is CERN and the Large Hadron Collider. And I think that's because we have entanglements and, like, entangled particles, that the hockey puck could be some kind of thing that, like, the... a thing on the graph of— I just swear I've heard those words... somewhere in that context before. Is... Just big science.
John:
You're right inasmuch as the hockey puck isn't a hockey puck, but other than that...
Tom:
Hmm.
John:
you're not in the right ballpark.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
James:
They're announced. So is it the... So let's say you took something in the shape of a life preserver, a circle, and you put some battery acid in it.
Tom:
Mhm.
James:
That could create a puck-shaped thing, couldn't it? Like, the circle of the life preserver, a hockey puck's not a dissimilar shape.
Jonny:
But what else is a hockey puck if it's not a hockey puck? Is there anything else that's known as a hockey puck?
Tom:
It's anything that's been kind of crushed down into that shape. So like a old coffee grounds or something like that.
James:
Well, the football is the nuclear codes, isn't it? They call that the football, not the hockey puck. But I wonder if, if the football is the nuclear codes, is the hockey puck something a little less serious?
SFX:
(group laughing)
James:
So like they're little missiles.
John:
(chuckles)
James:
That's what the Upside-Down Army deal with.
John:
I would say that Betty writes quite a lot of these messages at work.
Jonny:
So are they spies? Do we think they're spies? Is Betty passing messages to Chuck?
James:
And it's a code.
Jonny:
Yeah. So is he shouting it, is it like a war thing? Is he shouting it to troops?
James:
Does it sound different? Should we say it in different ways?
Jonny:
Who's he shouting to?
James:
"Life preserver and battery acid!"
SFX:
(Tom and John chuckle)
James:
I was like I'm in a marketplace. "Get your life preserver, get your battery acid."
John:
So Jonny, you mentioned who might he be announcing them to. He does repeat it so other people can act... on those words.
Tom:
Are these names of horses?
John:
Not names of horses.
Tom:
(groans) These are stupid racehorse names for a minute.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
And it's Foreign Entanglements coming down the long straight. Foreign Entanglements to Hockey Puck. Foreign Entanglements, Hockey Puck, long to Battery Acid, Life Preserver, he said— Oh, it's Battery Acid by a nose!
Jonny:
Are we in a conflict situation... during the time of this question?
John:
No. No, no. It's more informal code than that.
Jonny:
So are they... Are these the names given to... Like, for instance, when doing something like I'm a Celebrity, all the celebrities have a code name before going into the jungle, so you can talk about them and people don't know who you're talking about.
Tom:
They have that on The Masked Singer as well, for obvious reasons.
Jonny:
Exactly, yes.
James:
Yes!
Jonny:
So, are we in this sort of world, John? Have you snuck a TV question in to the TV types?
James:
Oh, yes.
John:
That'd be super stealthy. It's not a TV-related question, but the words do mean other things.
Jonny:
Are they people? Are they royals or...?
John:
Other things, not people.
Jonny:
Other things, not people?
John:
So what environment might someone write down some words, hand it to someone else, and have them shout it to other people?
James:
I think in a supermarket, if someone's lost, they shout it over the Tannoy. You go, oh... Read this out like an announcement? Oh, or like a train station! But why would you write it down?
Jonny:
You're not shouting it then, are you? You're not shouting, you're talking into a...
Tom:
Why wouldn't you just shout it yourself?
John:
You'll come across quite a few of these on your average high street.
Tom:
What?!
Jonny:
What, like a town crier? I mean, town criers aren't really around, are they?
Tom:
I'm back to racehorses and a betting shop!
James:
Or a market.
Jonny:
Like the fruit and— Like James, you went the fruit and veg sellers. Yeah, that's all I hear shouting.
James:
Yeah!
John:
Jonny, you're a little nearer in the right kind of genre there of... what this might be referring to.
Jonny:
What, fruit and veg sort of selling?
James:
Not fruit and veg selling, but sort of the right product.
Tom:
What?!
John:
So the first sentence was in the morning, the second was at lunchtime. Does that help you?
James:
No.
Tom:
No!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
James:
Is it a café? Is it... You often, if you're ordering some food, the waiter might write down the food. Is it that they—
John:
Keep thinking that.
James:
They've ordered the food, and then they need to restock and go and get something else?
John:
You're very close, Jim.
Jonny:
Ordering something, have to restock.
John:
So who might be writing it down, and who might that person be giving that paper to?
James:
Oh, so is it, like, the service staff writing it down, giving it to the chef?
John:
(nods silently) Yeah. Keep going.
James:
And so you write "life preserver and battery acid", and Betty's written it down 'cause she's the waitress, and she's— and then the guy has read— shouts it out to all the team in the kitchen. And then foreign entanglement and hockey puck are the dishes that are served to the people?
John:
You are on the precipice of this, Jim.
James:
Gyaah!
John:
Do you know what life preserver and battery acid might mean? They're a breakfast. And foreign entanglements, hockey puck, more lunchtime.
Jonny:
Ooh, it sounds like a donut. What's round? A donut and...
James:
Here we go.
Jonny:
Battery acid. Donut and lemon? Orange? Trying to think what battery acid, something acidic.
Tom:
Battery acid could just be strong coffee?
John:
You're very close. It's not quite, it's not hot drink, but you're very, very close. It's something astringent like you were suggesting, Jonny.
Tom:
Red Bull?
SFX:
(Jonny and John laugh)
John:
Rocket fuel. What about foreign entanglements and hockey puck?
James:
A lunchtime dish that's foreign entanglement.
Jonny:
It's spaghetti bolognese?
John:
Spaghetti bolognese, Jonny. Straight in there, well done.
Jonny:
And a hockey puck. A chocolate donut?
John:
Nope. No, nope. Something else you might have for lunch.
Jonny:
Burger?
John:
Burger, Jim. Absolutely right.
Tom:
Oh, my g— It's— (stifles hard breath) This is a diner. This is diner slang.
John:
That's exactly it.
Tom:
How did I not get that this is diner slang before now?
SFX:
(John and Jonny laugh)
Tom:
I've even heard of diner slang.
James:
(guffaws)
Tom:
(sighs loudly)
James:
What, so they've got their own language?
Tom:
Yeah.
John:
So yeah, in old-fashioned diners, there are lots of fun phrases that staff use to make orders more memorable.
So a life preserver is a donut due to its ring shape.
Battery acid is grapefruit juice.
Foreign entanglements – spaghetti as you've got Jonny.
And a hockey puck is a well-done burger.
The first order was breakfast, and the second order was during lunch.
Tom:
'Cause it's cooked well done through, and it looks and acts like a hockey puck.
John:
Exactly that.
James:
Isn't it quicker just to write 'donut' and not write 'life preserver'?
John:
Oh, that's no fun, Jim, come on.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
James:
Oh, I'm just gonna add another word on here. An egg— (laughs)
John:
(chuckles)
Tom:
Which means we just have the question from the start of the show.
Which plant can count to two, and why does it help?
Anyone want to take a quick guess at that?
James:
If it was gonna be a different kind of plant, is it, like, a power plant of sorts?
Tom:
(laughs) Oh, after that episode, you're all thinking far too laterally now.
Jonny:
Yeah.
SFX:
(James and John cackle)
Jonny:
I'm trying to think of plants and whether they count to two.
Tom:
Mmm.
Jonny:
Is it to do with... Yeah, I don't know, a stage of it sort of... It does part one, and then it does a part two if the flower comes up, but it feels like most plants sort of do that, don't they? But the counting part.
Tom:
What might a plant be able to count?
John:
Oh, I was so— I was not thinking that. I was thinking about those plants that react to music, those fake old things that kind of jiggled around.
Jonny:
(chuckles)
James:
Is it, like, a Venus flytrap?
Tom:
Yes, it is, James. Yes.
John:
Oh?
James:
Oh?!
Tom:
Where did that come from? I'm still gonna ask you why.
James:
Well, I just— 'Cause they're a kind of plant that don't feel like they're a plant.
Tom:
Mhm, yeah.
James:
And they either— Do they count the amount of seconds after a plies— fly has landed, so that they're comfortable when they're there, or is it the amount of flies that have landed on it maybe?
Jonny:
Footsteps. Is it the footsteps?
Tom:
I think that's close enough. I'm gonna give you that.
The Venus flytrap catches prey using modified leaves that snap shut when trigger hairs are stimulated. However, the trap only closes if two touches occur within roughly 20 seconds, or if one hair is touched twice quickly.
Jonny:
Incredible.
James:
Oh wow.
Jonny:
Well done.
Tom:
After the trap closes, there are more movements from the trapped insect, and that triggers additional signals. Studies show that the plant effectively counts multiple stimulations before producing digestive enzymes, ensuring that the captured object is living prey worth digesting. So if it's hit by rain or by debris or other triggers, it won't damage itself by closing too early.
Congratulations to our players. Some very tricky questions written by you all in there.
If people would like more questions like that, where do they go? We'll start with Jonny.
Jonny:
They can come and join us on the Here's What You Do podcast every Wednesday, where you can expect a whole cavalcade of bizarre, strange, and often whimsical questions.
Tom:
And James, what do people search for?
James:
They search for "Here's What You Do quiz podcast". We're on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you download your podcasts from. We're on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X. Just search for @HeresWhatYouDoPod.
Tom:
John, what have the other two not covered?
SFX:
(John and James guffaw)
John:
Well, we have a bonus show that's called Here's What You Missed, and that is all the bonus questions that we don't get time for, plus tiebreakers, plus general silliness.
Tom:
And if you want to know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also join the Lateral Producer's Club and send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are full video episodes every week on Spotify.
Thank you very much to John Cantrell.
John:
Thank you.
Tom:
James Smales.
James:
Thank you very much.
Tom:
Jonny Robins.
Jonny:
Cheers, bye.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | James Smales, Jonny Robins, John Cantrell, Harry Sans, Richard Atkinson, Mike Salter |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |