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Episode 200: The pink hat
7th August, 2026 • Elle Cordova, Jarvis Johnson and Jordan Adika face questions about Finnish flags, worker wellness and fashion finances.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
In Norway, why do some of the locally registered cars bear the Finnish flag on their licence plate?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Today's episode is very special, as we mark the 200th Lateral!
Elle:
Yay!
Jarvis:
Whoa!
Jordan:
Whoo.
SFX:
(Elle and Jordan applaud)
Tom:
This means that the show has now been running long enough to leave behind a substantial historical record.
In fact, earlier today, a team of researchers conducted a small archaeological excavation in the studio. After removing several layers of speculation, they uncovered fascinating artefacts from earlier episodes: fragments of abandoned theories, a nearly intact red herring, and what experts believe may once have been a perfectly good answer before someone over-thought it.
Jordan:
(snickers)
Tom:
But every dig eventually uncovers something truly fascinating, and after brushing away the dust, we found three podcast guests.
First of all, we have, from the Sad Boyz podcast and from Jarvis Johnson! GOLD, Jarvis Johnson.
Jarvis:
Hello. I just cleaned off all the dust. Thanks for having me.
Tom:
Welcome back to the show. Should I still be introducing you as from the GOLD channel here, or are you—
Jarvis:
I think so, yeah. (laughs) Yeah, that's good.
Tom:
What have you been working on lately?
Jarvis:
Mostly Sad Boyz podcast and Jarvis Johnson! GOLD. We also... I just did a live improv show, which was super fun.
Tom:
Ooh.
Jarvis:
Just getting out and about, playing lots of video games as usual.
Tom:
Now, is improv a new skill for you? Is this something you're branching into?
Jarvis:
Thankfully not.
Tom:
Okay.
Jarvis:
No, it's an old skill. I quit my improv team to focus on my YouTube channel in 2017. So it's a return to form for me.
Tom:
Alright, well, good luck with the improv and with the channel and with the show today.
We are also joined by one half of the Sad Boyz podcast, and I think back on YouTube as well, Jordan Adika.
Jordan:
I am, yeah. Is— If we can qualify that as a video a couple months ago, yes. In that case, definitely.
Tom:
Yeah, sure. (chuckles)
Jordan:
Yeah, I'm back. The dust that Jarvis cleaned off himself landed directly on me, so I've adopted the dust.
Tom:
(giggles) That I'm pretty sure is a Batman quote. But I can't remember the details.
Jordan:
Yeah, no one cared until I put on the dust.
Tom:
There we go.
Jarvis:
Yeah.
Tom:
Are you also doing improv?
Jordan:
I'm not an improv guy.
Tom:
Okay.
Jordan:
I think it's fair— you know, I'm— I think everything I say is... Correct me if I'm wrong, it's like, extremely wise and insightful
SFX:
(Tom and Elle laugh)
Jordan:
and thought out.
Jarvis:
Scripted.
Jordan:
We definitely don't have to edit multiple moments in every episode of Sad Boyz where I not only forget what I was saying, but forget why I would be saying it.
Tom:
Good luck. We will hope that that doesn't happen on the show today.
Our third player today is brand new to Lateral. Welcome to the show: writer, comedian, and fan of science, Elle Cordova.
Elle:
Hello, thanks for having me.
Tom:
So I've got to ask the very basic question, tell us what you do.
Elle:
What do I do? Well, I'm figuring that out myself.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Elle:
I do a bunch of stuff. I'm like, you know, an online person like so many of us are. I was a musician for a long time. I'm working on a new album called Curiosities, and I also have a science fiction book club. It's been keeping me very busy.
But mostly I make silly videos on the internet, hopefully to make people laugh and sometimes to entertain them and educate them.
Tom:
And I have to ask, have you seen a bit of Lateral before?
Elle:
I have.
Tom:
Alright.
Elle:
So I'm a first time caller...
Tom:
(laughs)
Elle:
A more recent listener, but also just more broadly a big fan of everything you've done, Tom. I'm— I've watched your channel for years.
Tom:
No, no. That—
Elle:
So it's a joy.
Tom:
We're already on the cutting room floor with that. I'm not letting that slip in.
Elle:
Okay.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
Let's see how many times we can get that sentiment in.
Jarvis:
Yeah, you have to—
Tom:
(laughs) Absolu—
Jarvis:
In order to compliment Tom on the air, you have to sandwich it in between something that's uncuttable.
Elle:
So that he doesn't notice.
Tom:
Also, I will immediately divert this to Producer David, for 200 episodes, has been putting together all these questions, has been wrangling all the guests. I'm gonna put any praise immediately on him.
SFX:
(guests applauding)
Tom:
As for the 200th time, I wish you good luck, everyone, and we dig into question one.
Thank you to Nate for this question.
When someone proposes a new emoji, why must they address the elephant in the room?
I'll say that again.
When someone proposes a new emoji, why must they address the elephant in the room?
Jarvis:
Okay.
Jordan:
Is that— Is this Sun Tzu?
SFX:
(Tom and Jordan crack up)
Tom:
What? The Art of War?
Jordan:
Yeah, that's... Why must someone... It has a— actually, it has a very nice haiku structure to it.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jarvis:
Okay, guys, so... I know a little bit about emoji. Only a little bit. There's a Unicode— Do you guys know what Unicode is?
Jordan:
The syntax for them?
Jarvis:
It's a proto... I guess it's a way of encoding information, but it is, like... how... Yeah, it's how emojis and other symbols are encoded. And—
Jordan:
In text form?
Jarvis:
In text form, but it is— It needs to be adopted by everyone. So a certain code has to be... adopted by of the consumers of that thing. Like your Apples, your Androids. Like, basically every app and whatever operating system, what have you. And there is a thing called the Unicode Consortium.
Elle:
Ooh.
Jordan:
(snickers) That's sounding very Warhammer.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jarvis:
And, so the— So, yeah, and so... emojis I know are, like... they have to go through this Unicode Consortium.
Jordan:
The elephant in the room.
Jarvis:
And so these things are actually proposed. Like, there are proposals. There's probably a lot of... I don't really understand how they meet, how they talk, but there's a lot of discussion that needs to be had. And also, technically speaking, there needs to be a discussion of how... these things are implemented. I might be red herring us. There might just be a more interesting thing. But I wanted to give that...
Tom:
(laughs)
Jarvis:
Give that context up front.
Elle:
So at this consortium, maybe there's an elephant presiding over the discussion, and has a gavel, and, "No, we will not have a new emoji."
Jarvis:
I think there's an elephant emoji, right?
Tom:
There is an elephant emoji, yes.
Jordan:
Pretty ironic to forget it.
Tom:
Eyyy.
Jarvis:
(chuckles flatly)
Jordan:
Applause now.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jarvis:
I also know that emojis specifically, because they get so complex, they might be multiple Unicode symbols, like...
Tom:
Okay, now we are definitely too deep down the rabbit hole.
Jarvis:
Okay.
Tom:
Okay? Good things from your rabbit hole there, Jarvis. Unicode Consortium and proposals and conversations about them. Yes, absolutely. There is a group that standardises emojis.
Jordan:
Consort— That's such a cool name for that.
Tom:
(cackles softly)
Elle:
Okay, so we have an elephant emoji.
Jordan:
It's in profile, right? It's just kind of... (gestures hands) It's not like a face-on emoji?
Jarvis:
I can't remember.
Jordan:
I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder.
Tom:
The elephant emoji is relevant here. We are talking about the elephant emoji.
Jarvis:
It's 'relephant' even.
Tom:
It's 'relephant'. Yeah.
Jordan:
Applause now!
Elle:
Is there something...
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Elle:
Is there something special about the elephant emoji, where it could be seen as like the standard emoji by which all other emojis are compared?
Tom:
Elle, you are right. It is kind of a benchmark.
Elle:
Okay.
Jarvis:
Right. So yeah, I was gonna say that... in terms of size constraints.
Jordan:
Yeah.
Elle:
Oh.
Jordan:
Does it even fill it? Is that what you're thinking?
Elle:
Is it like the biggest possible emoji?
Jarvis:
See, I would— I think that's a reasonable thing to say, Elle. The only counter to that I can think of is that I'm pretty sure there's a big square emoji that— and there's—
Elle:
Right.
Jarvis:
that would seemingly take up more space. But...
Tom:
Also, on physical size, there are planets and stars and things in there.
Jarvis:
I mean, the things that the elephant can be a benchmark for: size, shape, color.
Tom:
Mhm.
Jordan:
Vibes.
Tom:
Jordan, vibes, kinda yeah.
Jarvis:
Mm.
Elle:
Hm.
Jordan:
Is this...
Jarvis:
Vibes.
Jordan:
Is the elephant smiling?
SFX:
(Tom and Jordan laugh)
Jordan:
Is he in a good mood?
Jarvis:
The one thing I— This might be too in the weeds, but it might be helpful information. Going back to how Unicode and stuff is presented, you'll notice that it's often left up to the consumers, the visual representation of these things.
Jordan:
Oh, right.
Jarvis:
So, like, the Android elephant is gonna look different than the iOS elephant.
Tom:
I would like you all to picture that you are this consortium. You are on the call right now that is trying to deal with a new emoji proposal.
Jordan:
I'm blurred out. My voice is hidden.
SFX:
(Tom and Jordan laugh)
Jordan:
No one can know who I am.
Elle:
Maybe we get a new c— we discover a new planet, you know, in the solar system.
Jarvis:
Right.
Elle:
And we wanna make an emoji out of it.
Jordan:
Ooh.
Jarvis:
Well, I'm gonna need to talk to the elephant about this.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jordan:
"Hmm."
Elle:
Why do we need to pull up the elephant?
Jarvis:
So, okay. So I think... I think it has to do with what— we can't represent everything as an emoji. We get so many proposals. So, is this one of the... like, an elephant is a highly recognizable, well-known member of the animal kingdom. And so, is it from a relevance standpoint?
Tom:
Yes.
Jarvis:
Like, how— Ohhh.
Elle:
Hmm.
Tom:
Keep going, Jarvis.
Jarvis:
Is this... Like, when you're representing the planet, and I— and the solar system, and I'm saying, "Well, let's compare this to all of the planets in the solar system," is this an elephant, like, in the solar system? Is this a highly recognizable, well-known thing, and thus should it be represented? Because if it doesn't pass this bar of being at least an elephant's level of recognizability, then we can't
Jordan:
Awesome.
Jarvis:
move forward.
Tom:
Spot on. This is the elephant test in the proposal guidance from the Unicode Consortium. Just like you said, an elephant is considered universally recognisable across cultures, age groups. If a proposed emoji would be significantly less recognisable or useful than something like an elephant, it may not make it into Unicode.
Jordan:
I suppose it's, yeah, if it were to be the thumbs up or a palm or a smiling face, that might be a little too universal.
Tom:
Yeah. Little too much.
Jarvis:
Every time they choose a new emoticon face, I'm like, "Really? That's the one?"
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jarvis:
Like the wide eye. I don't know if you've seen the big, wide alien eyes. They look like... I can't even say what it looks like. But, yeah, weird.
Jordan:
The elephant test, brilliant.
Tom:
Jordan, time for your question, when you're ready.
Jordan:
This question has been sent in by Mistycle.
Jim Anixter has consistently worn a pink hat since the 1990s to prove he's a man of his word. Over time, he's become a minor celebrity. How did that hat prove his honesty, and why was he so often behind a plate?
I'll say that one again.
Jim Anixter has consistently worn a pink hat since the 1990s to prove he's a man of his word. Over time, he's become a minor celebrity. How did the hat prove his honesty, and why was he often behind a plate?
Jarvis:
Behind a plate makes me think of baseball.
Jordan:
I d— I will say... you've tickled a piece.
Jarvis:
Ooh.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
You've tickled an ivory on the 88 keys. I'll put it that way.
Elle:
Well, okay, so if he's a... if he's either a... just a general base player or perhaps even a catcher, since he's always behind the plate...
Jordan:
Mm.
Elle:
Then maybe we... I don't know enough about baseball to recognize that name. Maybe somebody else here knows of this baseball player.
Jordan:
It's a really cool name, I have to say.
Elle:
It is.
Jordan:
Anixter?
Jarvis:
I basically know nothing about baseball other than the rules, vaguely.
Elle:
He could also be an umpire, I guess.
Tom:
Ooh.
Jarvis:
Right. Because umpires are behind plates. That's what I was thinking. Because home plate is where the... Again, if anyone's a sports fan, I apologize for what I'm...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jarvis:
But, I believe, you know, the home plate is the main one, and that's where you're batting from. And so the umpire who's calling balls and strikes behind them is right behind the person at bat. And... it just sounds like a thing that something happened in the past, and you know how someone says, "If I lose this bet, I'll eat my hat" or something like that?
Elle:
Mhm.
Jarvis:
It almost feels like a loss—
Jordan:
"I'll wear my hat."
Jarvis:
Yeah, yeah.
Elle:
Or, it's a fan, somebody behind the plate, because they've got really good tickets. And they've got season tickets or something to a favorite team. So it could just be somebody in the stands.
Jarvis:
Is he an owner? Is he some sort of person who's like, has some status within the team? So... 'Cause those are expensive seats, one has to imagine.
Jordan:
You are in the right realm with he is a fan.
Tom:
Okay.
Elle:
Okay.
Tom:
There's a lot of ridiculous traditions in baseball. It's one of those games that goes on for hours and hours, and... things just start. Superstitions, traditions, all sorts of things, but...
Jarvis:
Absolutely.
Tom:
We've got a pink hat that proves he's honest.
Elle:
Or a man of his word, so...
Tom:
Yeah.
Elle:
Maybe he promised to be wearing a pink hat for a certain duration of time.
Jarvis:
Okay, so this is... going back to what Tom was saying about weird traditions... You know how... a lot of those sports traditions will be like, "I have to wear this outfit because it's good luck"?
Tom:
Mhm.
Jarvis:
"I have to do this thing." And so, it almost feels like something really good happened the first time he wore the hat. And maybe he was interviewed after the game or something because he was particularly noticeable, pink hat on television.
Tom:
Oh, well, well—
Jarvis:
Or something.
Tom:
Particularly noticeable. So if he's with a big group of fans in the crowd, and this is, like, 1990s standard def TV camera, you put a bright pink baseball cap on, you are gonna be spotted. The audience is gonna know you're there.
Jarvis:
Abs— They'll absolutely know you're there. I'm wondering if it could be a distraction tactic, too, for the pitcher.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jarvis:
Because there's lots of things like that, like beating a drum or making a noise, or, I don't know.
Jordan:
Firing a gun.
Tom:
(stifles laugh)
Jordan:
Playing the guitar. (chuckles)
Elle:
It's a lucky hat. Like something—
Jarvis:
Right.
Elle:
Like you were saying, Jarvis, like, something good happened in some game at a critical moment, and then this pink hat was part of it. So now, like you said, people get very superstitious about what they were wearing and what were the conditions that caused this beautiful thing to happen in the sport. Maybe he made a promise and said, you know, "I'm gonna always wear this hat, so that good things continue to happen."
Jordan:
You've hit so much of it. So he is... he's a baseball superfan, and he always wears this hat when he attends. And you're right that he is behind the plate, because he is usually sat in the exact same location, or same portion of the arena. I can throw out, he's... It is not a... The cap is not for the team that he supports. It is not the colour of the team he supports. It is... It is for attention and for a particular... particular person. He's become known just because he does it, But it is... he's made a separate promise.
Jarvis:
I wonder if the hat itself has a message on it.
Tom:
Did he lose a bet?
Jordan:
(chuckles) He did not lose a bet, but he is...
Tom:
(chuckles)
Jordan:
he is bound to this promise.
Tom:
Okay, 'cause I just assumed he lost his fantasy football league or something. It's like, "You must always wear the pink hat of shame from now on."
Jordan:
(chuckles)
Elle:
Is it like his wife's hat, and she passed, and he— she— he wears it in her memory?
Jarvis:
Ohhh.
Tom:
Ohhh.
Jordan:
It's— But you've got it. It's a much less profound version.
SFX:
(Jordan and Tom laugh)
Elle:
Okay.
Jordan:
Elle, you've got it essentially. Jim Anixter, nicknamed Pink Hat Guy... you know, it's the... He's a fan of the Chicago Pubs. ...Pubs? He's a fan of the...
SFX:
(others laugh heartily)
Jordan:
I imagine probably both, maybe.
Tom:
Probably also, yes.
Elle:
I'm also a fan of the Chicago Pubs.
Jordan:
Won't say no. He's a fan of the Chicago Cubs, and maybe... the Chicagoans weren't feeling especially creative when they came up with 'Pink Hat Guy'.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Jordan:
But in the 1990s, his wife jokingly wondered whether he really attended the games he was claiming to always be going to.
SFX:
(Tom and Jarvis chuckle)
Jordan:
So he began wearing a bright pink hat. Well, no, he was a wife guy.
SFX:
(Tom and Jordan laugh)
Jarvis:
To prove that he's a wife guy.
Jordan:
Yeah, and then the distinctive hat allowed his wife to spot that Jim was on TV and confirm he was indeed at the game. Or that another man owns a pink hat.
Tom:
(giggles) I was just thinking that!
Jordan:
(giggles)
Jarvis:
Yeah.
Elle:
So that's a much less sweet version than what I was proposing there.
Jordan:
But the— oddly enough, the— So, Mistycle, who wrote in about the— who sent this question in, is a Cubs fan and has seen him behind the plate many times.
Tom:
This question's been sent in by Antara Ballal.
During construction of the US transcontinental railroad in the 1860s, Chinese workers were noticeably less affected by a common danger than others on the project. Why?
I'll say that again.
During construction of the US transcontinental railroad in the 1860s, Chinese workers were noticeably less affected by a common danger than others on the project. Why?
Jarvis:
I always think about Ph— I always think about Phineas Gage.
Tom:
The spike guy?
Jarvis:
Yeah, 'cause he was working on a railroad. And then he had a railroad pole blow through his head.
Jordan:
Oh, that's right!
Jarvis:
He survived. Lived a pretty normal life. Anyway.
Tom:
After they removed the pole, to be clear.
Jarvis:
After they removed the pole.
Jordan:
It was so hard to sleep on a mattress with the big pole there.
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Jarvis:
Well, he made a promise to his wife.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Then he went out and put the pole through.
Jordan:
He attended the Chicago Pubs.
Jarvis:
Pole guy. Okay, so...
Jordan:
What could possibly— What, so danger's on. There's... the pole. Big famous danger on the tracks. Other tracks, being hit by a train. But however, they should probably wait 'til the rail is done before being hit by a train.
Jarvis:
Yeah, no trains running.
Elle:
And is this a function of... the roles that people were given? Like, were Chinese workers given a different kind of role than others? Or is it based on...
Jordan:
Maybe it's the, yeah, the stage at which... What's a hazard that would be added at, like, step two of it? Like, putting the initial... I'm revealing myself to not be an expert on train construction, but when they put down the train... road?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
You might even call it a rail road.
SFX:
(Elle and Jordan snicker)
Jarvis:
Wow.
Jordan:
Eh, I'll stick with train road. For the train to walk on. That I'm not allowed to walk on.
Elle:
Yeah, like I imagine one of the more dangerous parts of it is, you know, the dynamite and the blowing up the...
Jordan:
Yeah!
Elle:
you know, mountains and stuff.
Jarvis:
Yeah. I mean, Phineas Gage. And so yeah, definitely blowing stuff up. I wonder if it is related to roles or, like, these workers are likely coming over for this work.
Tom:
Yeah, they were discriminated against. Their pay was lower.
Jarvis:
Exactly, yeah. And so—
Tom:
And they were treated differently.
Jarvis:
Right, so I'm like, they might not have been trusted with a certain aspect of the work, is— was my thought. And that—
Jordan:
What was the exact word, of like a, an accident, a condition? What was the, they were less—
Tom:
Common danger.
Jarvis:
Common danger.
Jordan:
Okay. I have... This is a real Hail Mary, so this—
Tom:
(chuckles)
Jordan:
I could be way off. Is it possible that part of the discrimination they were facing is that they weren't privy to the same food, and some of the food that the...
Jarvis:
Mmmh. That's actually really good.
Jordan:
That the other workers got, like they were— they had access to food150 that, like, chicken, and they got salmonella from it or something.
Elle:
Like dysentery or something.
Tom:
Dysentery, spot on. Yes.
Jordan:
Ohhh!
Tom:
They were less likely to get dysentery. And you're right. They had to organise their own food. Spot on there, Jordan. There is one other thing that they would've done.
Elle:
Huh.
Tom:
And not wishing to go into stereotypes here, but this is very much associated with China.
Jarvis:
Well, I was thinking about like rice, and meals, and like storage of food, and its likelihood to spoil.
Elle:
Yeah. They have some method of keeping their food fresh when others weren't.
Tom:
Not deliberately. But almost as a side effect of something they were doing, yes.
Jordan:
Were they drinking teas with like, antibacterial...?
Tom:
(points affirmatively)
Elle:
Ahh.
Jarvis:
Whoa.
Tom:
They're drinking teas, yes.
Jordan:
And it's counteracting the... potential foodborne illness.
Jarvis:
They had to heat the water, and the water could've been—
Elle:
Ahhh.
Jordan:
Yeah, that's right.
Elle:
There it is.
Jordan:
It's potable or whatever.
Jarvis:
Yeah.
Tom:
Yes, absolutely right.
During construction of the first transcontinental railroad, unlike some other crews, whose meals were supplied by the company, the Chinese workers had to bring and supply their own provisions. And they brought tea, and they drank tea, and they boiled the water, which eliminated a lot of the pathogens that would take out other work crews who just drank the water.
Jarvis:
I've been watching a lot of Survivor, is why.
Jordan:
I was just thinking of Survivor also.
Jarvis:
Yeah.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
I was also literally just thinking here... I was feeling that me and Jarvis had drift compatible after working together for so long. And I— something ha— We were just both gone for 20 minutes. We both just met up in an astral projection.
Jarvis:
Yeah, we met up in the astral plane.
Tom:
Jarvis, we will take your question please.
Jarvis:
Alright.
This question has been sent in by Crashington.
On two consecutive days, Steve drove over the same road in Utah. However, on the second day, he used the same stretch of road, but drove over a different bridge due to some Dawn dish soap. Why?
On two consecutive days – so day one, day two – Steve drove over the same road in Utah. However, on the second day, he used the same stretch of road, but drove over a different bridge due to some Dawn name brand dish soap. Why?
Tom:
Okay, I'm glad you said name brand, because briefly I was like, is this just dish soap that happens to work near sunrise?
Jordan:
I did, yes. Sorry, I thought... We should regionalise it.
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Jarvis:
Yeah, that is a— In this question, Dawn is a very funny— That's just a word, so...
Jordan:
Imagine it's the Sainsbury's own brand, which doesn't have the little rivets in the corner of it.
Tom:
Oh, but if you wanted to confuse Americans the same way, you'd just say thanks to some Fairy liquid. And that—
Jordan:
Yeah, there you go.
Tom:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Elle:
Is the Dawn dish soap maybe the purpose of his errand? Like, he was going to get the soap, and then now that he has it, he was just taking like a scenic, a separate scenic route?
Jordan:
Celebrating. (giggles) Yippee.
Elle:
I dunno.
Tom:
It's the same road, though.
Elle:
Yeah.
Jarvis:
Same road. But I guess notably, and this was confusing for me reading the question, the bridge is not road. So should not be considered road.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
Elle:
Is it like at different times of day, this bridge becomes necessary, because the water... presents itself in this certain crossing?
Jordan:
Mmh?
Jarvis:
No. To take a step back, what is something that commonly happens on roads?
Elle:
Like construction?
Jordan:
Oh, just traffic? Regular old...
Jarvis:
More in the realm of construction, like Elle was saying.
Jordan:
He was driving there, he went, "Oh, they're building a bridge. I'm looking forward to that." (wheezes)
Tom:
(snickers)
Jordan:
Then on his next ride, he's like, "Yay. The bridge I've heard so much about."
Jarvis:
I mean, you're not so far off, "Oh, they're building a bridge."
Jordan:
Mm.
Elle:
Okay, what if... This is definitely not it. 'Cause this would be a very unique situation, but...
Jarvis:
I mean, this is Lateral after all.
Jordan:
You could be right.
Elle:
But could it be that he, on his way out, he noticed they were building a bridge, but he had to go to the grocery store, he got some Dawn soap, and on the way back, the Dawn soap fell out of the bag? So then he reached down because he was distracted, and he was trying to pick up the soap, and then he veered off and went over the newly constructed— or the bridge that they were constructing?
Jarvis:
So I love how... the hijinks described in that.
Jordan:
Yeah, it's a very Looney Tunes path.
Jarvis:
But, but... I th— Hmm.
Jordan:
Did a coyote paint a path through a—
SFX:
(Tom and Elle laugh)
Jordan:
some kind of mountain and confuse him?
Tom:
Oh, and he went straight through, and then obviously, the coyote slammed into the painting afterwards.
Jordan:
(giggles) Yeah.
Jarvis:
I def— I think we should think about the... alternative properties of a soap, a liquid soap.
Tom:
So, it's slippery.
Jarvis:
Mm. Slip— Something is slippery. The soap is, yes.
Tom:
So why is a construction crew using dish soap?
Jarvis:
That is a great question, Tom.
Tom:
Why... Why is... And maybe the other bridge had just opened, and the last thing they need to do is dish soap the bridge?
Jordan:
Do they have to slick it up or something?
Jarvis:
Follow that thread, Jordan.
Jordan:
I'm LA-maxxing right now.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
There is, like famously, the most dangerous time to drive on roads here is immediately after the rain, because there's so much oil
Tom:
Yeah.
Jordan:
that accumulates from poor maintenance of the road, but also whatever materials I'm assuming is used in the construction. Is... dish soap like a DIY solution for a tool they normally would use?
Jarvis:
It is a DIY solution in a way for solving a task they needed done. I actually— I don't have information on what the alternative would be. So this seemed to be the primary... intention of this technique.
Jordan:
Oh, wow.
Jarvis:
I'm going to read an aspect of this question again, because it's been a minute, so I just wanna remind the how it's written.
Jordan:
Okay.
Jarvis:
On the second day... So he drove over the same road, two days. On the second day, he used the same stretch of road, but drove over a different bridge. Where could this different bridge have come from? Because it says, drove over a different bridge due to some Dawn dish soap. 'Due' is an important word here.
Tom:
Are they cleaning the road sign? Are they— Do they have the road sign up with a big thing over it blocking off the route to the new bridge, and the way you remove that paint is you just get someone up there with some soap and water, and you scrub the sign clean?
Jarvis:
That's funny, but I wanna— No. Let's go back to the...
Tom:
Argh!
Jarvis:
I think, Tom, you said that it— the slippery element and... how that might be used in a D— and then Jordan mentioned the DIY element of... how you might use a slippery substance.
Jordan:
Is it, like, the varnish that they put on the end? Do you know what I mean?
Jarvis:
Nothing about the varnish. Nothing about the actual... traction of the bridge. Of the bridge to d— as a driving surface. More about how a bridge comes out of nowhere.
Jordan:
Tom, you seem like a guy that would know a lot about bridge construction.
Tom:
Okay, here's the thing. That's the second time in my life someone has said something like that to me.
SFX:
(guests laugh in turn)
Tom:
The other time, I was on a flight somewhere over Europe with a couple friends, and in the back of the plane are a group of lads off on a stag weekend or something. And they're all gawping. They're maybe four, five rows behind. They're all gawping at— out the window. And one of them's walking by, coming back for the toilet. He's like, "Huh, you look like you might know something about bridges."
SFX:
(Jordan and Elle guffaw)
Tom:
"What's that?" And we look out the window. I'm like, I can't be offended, because I'm like, "Oh, that is the Øresund Bridge. It's between Denmark and Sweden." So yes, I do look like someone who would know about bridge construction. In that—
Jordan:
Maybe I mean a cool guy.
Tom:
If a bridge appears out of nowhere, it's because it's been constructed offsite and brought in. It's a prefab bridge that has been constructed and brought in off trucks. So do they just slide it into place with dish soap?
Jarvis:
That is exactly what they do. Yes. That is exactly what it is. (belly laughs)
Jordan:
They are— I'm sorry. You can't do that.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Jordan:
You need bridge juice or something.
Tom:
Right? You need industrial lubrication.
Jarvis:
So, Tom—
Jordan:
I shouldn't be able to do it.
Jarvis:
Yeah, welcome to America.
SFX:
(guessers laughing)
Jarvis:
In Utah, the Department of Transportation has repeatedly used accelerated bridge construction, in which a new bridge is built next to the old one, while traffic continues using the existing route. When the replacement weekend arrives, crews demolish the old bridge, and then move the new one sideways into the same position. This lets drivers use the old bridge one day, and a new bridge almost immediately afterward, with only a short closure rather than months of disruption.
The bridge is placed on steel slide beams with low-friction pads underneath, then pushed or pulled into place using hydraulic equipment. Ordinary dish soap is added to the pads to reduce friction during the move. This, plus Teflon-like sliding surfaces, make it a cheap and effective way to slide a structure that weighs over 500 tons.
Jordan:
I don't want a slippery bridge.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jordan:
(laughs) What I want— They'd better put some tape over it at the end. (wheezes) Or like a... one nail.
Jarvis:
I think they move— they remove the moving pads afterwards. So you're— it's n— The dish soap is no longer involved once it's in place.
Jordan:
Oh, like a dining cloth?
Jarvis:
Yeah, exactly.
SFX:
(Elle and Jordan laugh)
Jordan:
The bridge stays.
Tom:
I hate that the reason I got that question is because Jordan was like, "You look like someone who knows about bridge construction."
Jarvis:
(laughs uproariously)
Jordan:
I gave you confidence.
Elle:
And then your brain was like, "I do, actually."
Tom:
I do! You're right!
Jarvis:
Hold on. Is it the correct answer?
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
This question was sent in by Alan Hitchin.
At the Poseidon's Fury attraction in Universal Orlando Resort, a staff member quietly stood to the side of the room holding a stick with a small board. They didn't speak to guests or take part in the show, but without them, the illusion would break. Why?
I'll say that again.
At the Poseidon's Fury attraction in Universal Orlando Resort, a staff member quietly stood to the side of the room holding a stick with a small board. They didn't speak to guests or take part in the show, but without them, the illusion would break. Why?
Jordan:
Jarvis is the Orlando... adjacent...
Jarvis:
Well— I— Yeah.
Jordan:
The Floridian.
Jarvis:
I'm from Florida, but... I haven't actually been to Universal Orlando in so long, so I don't actually know this one. So I am gonna participate.
Tom:
(chuckles) Oh.
Jarvis:
Poseidon's Fury—
Tom:
Poseidon's Fury has since closed.
Jarvis:
Oh, well then maybe I did—
Tom:
Sorry to break any childhood memories you had there.
Jarvis:
I'll dry the tears. (chuckles)
Jordan:
I mean, I d— yeah, Fury? I don't want fury in my ride.
Jarvis:
Right, yeah. Especially not from a god.
Jordan:
(laughs) Yeah, it's a famously mean god.
Jarvis:
Okay, so water... Mean water. The evil, powerful, mean water ride.
Elle:
I've never been to this Orlando, you know, Universal such and such, whatever it is. I've never been to any of these things. Is it a roller coaster ride, or is it like a display, like a show that you just sit down and watch? Is it for sure a ride? What are— Do we— Have any of us been there?
Jarvis:
My— Yeah, my assumption was that it was a water ride, like maybe some sort of flume situation.
Elle:
Okay. Okay.
Jarvis:
But I could be wrong.
Jordan:
I think— Is the reason it's closed noted at all?
Tom:
Making room for more things, I think.
Jordan:
More boards, more sticks, more men.
Tom:
So I'll fill you in a bit on the attraction, 'cause I have seen it. It is an indoor walkthrough attraction. It's a series of show scenes
Jarvis:
Ohhh.
Tom:
that the guests walk through.
Jordan:
Tom, you strike me as a guy that would know a lot about roller coasters.
Jarvis:
Oh, and we know this one.
Jordan:
Kind of the bridges of fun.
Tom:
Yeah, yeah. In this case, no, no rollercoaster, no ride to get into. You walk through a series of show scenes where things happen.
Jordan:
Oh, cool.
Jarvis:
And it's called Poseidon's Fury?
Tom:
Poseidon's Fury.
Jordan:
It better be a little bit wet. (giggles)
Tom:
It is... a little bit wet?
Jordan:
Alright, some Dawn soap.
Jarvis:
So I— my first thought is that they're holding a mirror. But I don't know why that would be useful in any way. But just in terms of things you could be holding to create some sort of visual effect.
Jordan:
Is that— Was that the phrasing, the effect wouldn't work?
Tom:
The illusion would break.
Jordan:
Elle, are you— have you been to any theme parks?
Elle:
No. I'm like an anti-theme— well, not that I'm against it, I just—
Jordan:
You just hate theme.
Elle:
I went as a kid, and I was holding all my friends' coats while they would go up on the rides, so...
Jordan:
We are simpatico.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Elle:
Yeah.
Tom:
I was the same. I was the same.
Jordan:
Tom, you strike me as the kind of—
SFX:
(group laughing)
Elle:
Okay, so they're walking through different rooms, experiencing different visual effects, and I imagine—
Tom:
A whole story playing out.
Elle:
Okay.
Tom:
You are part of the adventure.
Jordan:
He's just at the front. He's not going with them?
Jarvis:
Oh, I thought it was in one of the rooms.
Tom:
Yeah.
Elle:
Off to the side, I think it says.
Tom:
Mhm, yes.
Jarvis:
Okay, another dumb thing I'm gonna throw out is, it's a screen, and it's a video of the top part of Poseidon's body.
Jordan:
(giggles profusely)
Jarvis:
And that he's got legs.
Jordan:
He's just peeking out. "I'm mad!"
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jordan:
"I'm gonna getcha."
Jarvis:
"Beware my fury."
Jordan:
(laughs)
Tom:
That's kinda the climax of the show actually,
Jordan:
Oh, cool!
Tom:
is you have Poseidon fighting... I can't remember, there's some villain thing, and it's all big projections of the gods on screens, as water effects go off and fire effects go off. And a live actor runs around, and the audience are just standing there. Yes, in one of the rooms, actually before the big reveal, this is what we're talking about here.
Jordan:
Oh, one... before the big reveal.
Tom:
It's one of the smaller rooms near the start.
Elle:
So what do we know about Poseidon? We know he's got like a trident.
Tom:
Mhm.
Elle:
Right? He's the angry god of the sea. So presumably... maybe the person standing off to the side is doing some sort of animatronic, you know, controlling of his trident or something to that effect.
Tom:
Not part of the show.
Jarvis:
Wait, wait, wait. Sorry, just to clarify, what are we saying isn't part of the show?
Tom:
I mean, you could argue that the guy with the stick is certainly helping the show, 'cause you know, the illusion isn't being broken. But this isn't like part of the show.
Elle:
Okay.
Jarvis:
I see. Okay, so, then that makes me think there's some sort of maybe... they wanna create some sort of let's say claustrophobia or something that make you feel enclosed in some... maybe you're inside of a wave or something like that, and—
Tom:
You are inside an ancient temple, yes.
Jordan:
Ooh.
Jarvis:
Oh, okay, yeah.
Jordan:
Is he covering something that would break the immersion?
Tom:
Yes.
Jarvis:
Right, like the exi— the emergency exit or something.
Tom:
Yes!
Jordan:
(laughs) It's the emergency exit! You can't do that!
Jarvis:
Yeah, you can't do that.
Jordan:
(giggles) You need to show it.
Tom:
This is the Poseidon's Fury walkthrough show.
There are several moments of blackout for scene changes or drama, or for the the actor to point a torch at the thing the audience is meant to look at. And during those few seconds of blackout, there is a guy in the corner who briefly covers the exit sign, so as you're looking 'round, you don't go, "Oh, this is not an ancient temple. This is a backlot at Universal."
Jordan:
That's kind of the bit— That's kind of the time where you'd need an exit sign though.
Jarvis:
Yeah, I feel like in—
Elle:
Safety hazard.
Tom:
Good news, if there's a fire drill, that guy's the first out the way.
Jarvis:
Right.
Jordan:
Just, whoop.
Jarvis:
They burn him. Yeah.
Jordan:
That's awesome. He just— I guess they didn't have the impossible technological advancements of turning it off with a remote.
Jarvis:
I think turning it off is, you can't do it.
Elle:
Oh, legally. Legally you can't turn it off.
Jordan:
Can't smash it.
Tom:
You can't legally turn it off, but a guy can be there with approval from the local ordinance and everything, that for just five seconds or so, you can cover that and put it back.
Jordan:
That's awesome.
Elle:
That's funny.
Tom:
The best gag in that show that I saw, not like joke gag, but like thing that the Universal equivalent of Imagineers have come up with is just an incredibly bright flash before a scene change, and the actor points in the direction of the thing that's going to flash, so everyone turns 'round, gets their night vision completely knocked out. And then the scene change happens while you're going, "Oh, what happened? What, what?" And then suddenly the room is 10 times as big.
Jordan:
They flashbang you. They cover the exit sign. They lock the doors.
Tom:
Yeah, basically!
Jordan:
They flood the room.
Jarvis:
This is sounding illegal.
Elle:
Psychological warfare.
Jordan:
Yeah.
Jarvis:
Yeah, I'm like, we should consult the Geneva Convention on some of these tactics.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
Elle, whenever you're ready, let's have your question please.
Elle:
Alright.
This question has been sent in by Nate.
In 2011, in what way did Abercrombie & Fitch give Mike an unusual offer of $10,000 in order to control The Situation?
I'll read this again.
In 2011, in what way did Abercrombie & Fitch give Mike an unusual offer of $10,000 in order to control The Situation?
Jarvis:
I didn't know this beforehand, but I do think I know it, so I'm gonna keep quiet for now.
Tom:
Oh, annoyingly, Jarvis, I think I'm thinking the same thing.
Jordan:
I think I might also literally be thinking the same thing.
Tom:
Okay. So right, now, this is fine.
Jordan:
If I say—
Tom:
All three of us are gonna put our theories forward.
Jordan:
Okay, okay.
Jarvis:
Right.
Tom:
And we're gonna see if we're the same or different, and Elle's gonna tell us.
Jordan:
Yeah.
Tom:
Jarvis, do you wanna start?
Jarvis:
Yeah, I'll start. Jersey Shore, The Situation, the guy's name is Mike.
Elle:
That's correct.
Jordan:
(laughs uproariously)
Jarvis:
And he did a brand deal with Abercrombie & Fitch.
Tom:
No, I think it's the opposite of a brand deal. So they stopped him wearing Abercrombie & Fitch.
Jarvis:
They— He— They asked him not to wear his stuff, yeah.
Jordan:
That's aw—
Jarvis:
Yeah.
Jordan:
That's so cool.
SFX:
(Tom and Jordan laugh)
Jordan:
That's so, so cool.
Elle:
So yes, where normally, normally a celebrity would be paid to wear a product, in this case Abercrombie & Fitch paid him $10,000 to not wear their apparel, because they felt that would damage their reputation.
Jordan:
That's such a funny amount of money to a celebrity... for...
Tom:
(chuckles)
Jordan:
It's like, I don't think... a celebrity probably wouldn't even accept $10,000 to wear a lot of those clothes.
Elle:
Right.
Jordan:
I guess maybe The Situation is not operating in that kind of revenue.
Tom:
I'm British, and I don't watch Jersey Shore or Geordie Shore, which was the UK equivalent of it. How do I know there's a guy called The Situation? How do I know he had a reputation like that?
Jordan:
It's just that good a name.
Jarvis:
Tom, you strike me as a guy who'd know a lot about The Situation.
Tom:
(laughs uproariously)
Jordan:
(laughs)
Elle:
(snickers)
Jarvis:
(chuckles) I was gonna say, this question, I would love to see a group of Gen Z people who didn't grow up
Tom:
Right?
Jarvis:
during Jersey Shore answer this, 'cause you'd really have to... Being named The Situation is—
Jordan:
20 hours in, and they're banging, they're looking for the exit sign. They're trying to get out of the room. "I don't know."
Elle:
I grew up, you know, obviously in this time and in this era. This was everywhere. I had no interest in watching Jersey Shore. I had no friends who were watching Jersey Shore, and I knew about The Situation too.
Tom:
(laughs)
Jarvis:
Yeah.
Elle:
So I think this was pretty big news.
Jarvis:
I didn't, yeah, I also didn't watch Jersey Shore, but I was into reality TV at large.
Jordan:
Is in the, in the question, is it capital T, capital S, The Situation?
Elle:
And that was one of the clues too. That was like...
Tom:
There we go.
Elle:
If you guys had struggled, I would've said, "The Situation has capital letters."
Jordan:
That's such a hilar— I've never seen Geordie Shore. I pray that there's, you know, a character called like The Business.
Tom:
Well, all we have left then is the question from the start of the show. Thank you Mateja and Nora for sending this in. In Norway, why do some of the locally registered cars bear the Finnish flag on their licence plate? I'm gonna open that one to the floor.
Jarvis:
And the thing is, I'm wa— if this is at all geopolitics related, this area of the world I don't know enough, I feel.
Jordan:
And these are different countries.
Tom:
Oh, wow, yes.
Jordan:
Nice, good, cool.
Tom:
Yes, definitely.
Jordan:
Got that one down.
Tom:
Sorry, somewhere out there listening to this, Ólafur Waage just went, (shudders)
Jordan:
Nice, we, look. I've been absorbed into the American monoculture. Maybe I had this hardware available at one point, but now I— all I know is Disney+.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jarvis:
I could offer a pun where I'm like maybe... oh, is it, I mean, if the question is written 'Finnish' as in with two Ns, then this wouldn't work, but if it was like a checkered flag, like a race type finish. You see what I mean?
Jordan:
Is it spelled with one N? With...
Elle:
It's gotta be the Finnish flag, right, the country?
Tom:
It is the country. Sorry, Jarvis. Excellent, excellent lateral thinking.
Jarvis:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom:
What might be on a licence plate for a European car?
Jordan:
Probably the Finnish flag.
Tom:
Mm. Yeah, well, Norwegian flag you'd hope.
Jordan:
Yeah.
Jarvis:
Okay, so European license plates. As a token non-European here, I'm imagining that really thin rectangle. And then it's got a flag on the left-hand side, in a square.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jarvis:
And then it's got 'EGUFX10' or whatever.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Jarvis:
You know? That's what I'm imagining.
Tom:
I'd concentrate on that flag, Jarvis.
Jordan:
Is it...
Jarvis:
Right.
Jordan:
Is it like... Are we in kind of an elephant in the room environment, where this, it is, it's like a more practical utility? Like the— 'Cause the Norwegian flag— But the Norwegian— They're both very simple flags.
Tom:
Mm.
Jordan:
I can't imagine that one's significantly—
Jarvis:
Well, I was gonna say, going back to this is, I can only guess things that don't have to do with geopolitics, because I just don't know enough about the relationship between these two countries. But if the flags are similar, there could be a manufacturing defect, where the government accidentally... like 'cause it's E— they're EU countries, right?
Tom:
They are, yep. The plates will look very similar.
Jarvis:
And so I don't know where the manufacturing happens, but be it EU, I could imagine some sort of centralization of the manufacturer, a mistake happening because someone who's not in either of these two countries is manufacturing the plates and mixes up the flag.
Tom:
Not quite, but that is kind of what it looks like.
Jarvis:
Mm, mm.
Tom:
Jordan, you said they're both very simple flags. Do you know any more than that?
Jordan:
Well, they're both (whap-whap), right?
Tom:
Yep. By which, you mean a cross.
Jordan:
(whap-whap) Yeah.
Tom:
Yeah.
Jordan:
You know, some people say that... Switzerland fra— flag's a bit of a red flag. I'd say it's a big plus.
Tom:
Eyyy.
Jordan:
That's my one joke I like (wheezes) that I do.
Elle:
Is it a software defect, where when it gets printed, the cross flags get... switched out or something?
Tom:
When it gets printed, it's absolutely fine.
Jordan:
Oh, does it wear away and it becomes the colours of...
Elle:
(wheezes)
Tom:
(laughs) Yes, it does.
Jordan:
Like it fades into the—
SFX:
(Jordan and Elle laugh)
Tom:
The red paint fades faster than the others, so it goes from a red and blue cross of Norway to the white and blue cross of Finland. Absolutely right.
Elle:
Oh, wow.
Jordan:
That's so funny. That's got— That can't feel good.
Tom:
Thank you to our players for running the gauntlet.
What are you up to? Where can people find you?
We will start with Elle.
Elle:
You can find me on Instagram, YouTube, all the places. I've got a science fiction book club, so if you like reading about sci-fi, join us there on Patreon.
Tom:
And Jordan.
Jordan:
You can find myself as one half of the Sad Boyz podcast. Sad Boyz starts with an S, ends with a Z. You can find that. We have an episode every single week, and then we have a bonus episode on Patreon every single week.
And you can also go check out my video where I, in a fugue state, rant about a creepy AI product on my channel, Jordan Adika, A-D-I-K-A.
Tom:
And Jarvis, what's the podcast about?
Jarvis:
It's a podcast about feelings and other things. Also, there's a Patreon episode where Tom talks entirely too much about old British TV shows. But then there's a regular episode about Tom talking entirely too much about roller coasters.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jarvis:
How does he know so much?
Jordan:
A couple of all-time favourite episodes that I was— and I will always reference the fact that multiple times in the episode, you do something that I do not have the biological capacity to do, which is take a moment, think about a memory, and find it.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Jordan:
You're like, "What was the date? Here it is."
SFX:
(group laughing)
Jarvis:
Mind palace Tom. And yeah, I'm on the internet, Jarvis. You can watch me be mad about stuff I find on the internet on purpose, so...
Jordan:
(snickers)
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also join the Lateral Producer's Club, or send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are full video episodes every week on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Jarvis Johnson.
Jarvis:
Bye bye, thank you.
Tom:
Jordan Adika.
Jordan:
See ya.
Tom:
Elle Cordova.
Elle:
Hey.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Mateja and Nora, Nate, Crashington, Mistycle, Antara Ballal, Alan Hitchin |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |